Find down with Janet Kramler and Michael Coffman and I'm her radio podcast.
We're missing some gold because because Jana is making fun of our producer Mark.
In fun of him, you know, we're all recording from our homes. And I just have like really grown to love mark ceiling fan. And I think it's a guy thing, like I think it's a it's a parent and and and guy thing, like guys love ceiling fans.
Do you think it's I don't know if it's a guy thing. I know, Mark, to your defense, it wasn't until Jana and I got together that she was like, whoa, whoa woa ceiling fans. I was like, yeah, of course ceiling fans. And she's like, people don't do that.
What do you mean people don't do that? But you don't see ceiling fans in houses now. Really they're more in like your parents' house.
No, I mean, you've definitely conditioned me where now I'm judging Mcjudgerson, I'm like, ugh, how dare you ceiling fan?
Like I get it for like outside and stuff. You know, I love a good sealing fan outside on the screen and porch, But I get it like I think that. I think what some fans are kind of cool like and if you have really tall ceilings like those living room fans from you know, those are kind of cool. But I don't know. Sorry Easton, what do you think about ceiling fans?
I hate them. I hate them more than anything. We took them out as soon as we moved into this beautiful home. It was the biggest blemish on this work of art that's our our first home we bought together. We ripped those things out with prejudice, took them out.
And why do you not like them so much? I would like to this. I feel like, by the way, this podcast is like a Seinfeld episode. We just talked about the most random things.
And ceiling fans. Uh.
You know, for being called a ceiling fan, I'm not a fan of them. It's they're Here's what I don't like about them. Here's my beef with the ceiling fan. I never know when they're on or off. They're always going at a weird speed. I never know if I've turned the monitoring.
Uh.
And I feel like, yes, they do circulate air light like fine, but I feel like our A C does just as good of a job. It doesn't look as bad. We can get much cuter lights. Uh, there's I mean, this was a ceiling fan at one point. Now it's you can't tell them the webcam, but it's a giant glowing orb. Now it's I don't know. I just feel like it limits you in the light department.
I would have to agree, and Mark, you know what, I'm sorry if you're if you're the odd man out here, but I'm sure there's a lot of people on here that are on your side, are on team fan.
There's two chains. One is for the light and one is for the fan.
And I have never in my life guessed correctly right never, I will agree with that.
It's so oh for one, it's so true. Mark, that is the most accurate thing ever, because it's like you're like, just right.
All right, it's the one closest to the door next time, damn it. Well, welcome to another episode of Wine Down with Jenna Kramer and Michael Cousin. That's how we start.
I love You're welcome. It's just cute. Yeah, no, I I anyways, fans, what else were we talking about when we started.
This reading some of our book? Oh?
Yeah, yeah, I think we should Oh Costco. What happened?
It's just Jana. I just got home, literally walked in the door five minutes ago from Costco, and Jane asked me how it was, and that's kind of out of breath. I'm just like Costco is overwhelming. It's just I feel like my head's on a swivel the whole time. Nothing's in the same place. The things that Jana asked me to get are like the smallest things that are possibly in Costco, like vitamin C gummies. You know, if I go to Public's or Whole Foods, I know exactly where they are. Go to Costco.
Why do we have because I kind of fought you on the membership because I don't think we need the membership because we only get two things from Costco these Annie's cheddar.
Puffs that which they didn't have, So what.
Are you serious?
I looked high, low, left, right, up, down, I mean I looked everywhere.
That's the thing with Costco. It's a needle in a haystack. But they may have stopped selling needles, yes.
One see, that's so frustrating. That's the only reason I really wanted you to go there and then to get the chicken nuggets, the chicken nuggets that we like from there, But like, why are we paying that much money for two things?
That much money? It's like one hundred and twenty dollars a year.
To me, that's see. So Michael and I have this thing, but that's still money that we're not using. Like it just bothers me. I don't like it. This is where I go, you know, I'm just.
I did get like a twenty pound brisket that I'm going to cook because I made that one last weekend. It was amazing. And what else did I get?
Oh?
Remember when we first went to Costco and I was complaining even on your Instagram about chicken bakes. Yes, and I was like, this is like really the only reason I wanted to become a member was to get a chicken bake that you get at the little food place after you check out. Well, to my surprise, I'm standing in line. I look up. There it is. It's on the menu.
It's back wow, gripping.
So this a three ninety nine piece of heaven. I go to the Kiosk, I order one, but the groceries in the car I'm ready to take a big old bite out of thing. Take a big old bite. It tasted like it's been marinating in the ocean water for sixty days. Salt. This like. I couldn't get home fast enough to get something to drink because I had nothing in the car. I was like, this is not what I remembered when I was ten and going to Costco with my parents.
Did you eat it?
I ate half of it, and I was like, I can't even do this.
Oh that's so nasty.
Yeah, so interesting. Anyways, that was my morning. Huh huh. But I did want to start this episode off with a more sentimental note until we got got into it. Shots fired, shooting at Mark and talking about Costco. Sentimental, yeah, or just I think it's a good setup for stuff that we may read about our book.
Okay, Okay, Like you said you wanted to bring something up that was like sentimental.
I think yeah, amidst laughter, No, I think it's you know, sometimes we get away from some relational stuff on here, besides emails or dms that we bring up. But I think it's important, you know, because our whole thing is talking about stuff we deal with and being open and everything.
And I was just driving around town today and you know, there's some physical triggers around town where it's just like emotional for me, where it's man, I remember staying in this hotel when shit went down, and you know, thinking my life was over and our marriage was over, and our family was over, and you know, and then thinking about all the negative things that I've done to her, you and to hurt this family. And I think my point is, you know, I try to do a good job.
I need to do better at acknowledging these things. Doesn't have to be on a super regular basis, but at least bring them to your attention, to let you know that I am thinking of them, that I'm not just moved on past them and everything's fine and there's no worry in the world and it's just normal, you know. But I am sorry for creating, you know, that environment and these feelings that we have around whether it's physical
triggers or just emotional triggers or whatever it is. Because I know it's hard to you know, to be married
to me. I know it's hard to be married to someone who's caused you hurt and pain, no matter what the situation for anybody, And so I just think my suggestion suggestion to couples or people in coupleship listening to this is just lean into your partner about things that you might have done to harm them or harm your relationship, even if it's not as obviously not as deep as our wounds, but something service level where a fight you had recently and just even if you feel like it's
been resolved, go back and just own your part again or something, you know, just because that just anytime I do that to you, you just you affirm me how much that means to you that because then you don't feel I I can't speak for you, but usually what you tell me is then you don't feel alone and like the feelings that you feel and stuff. So no, I just felt myself like getting emotional when I was driving home. Of just fortunately it wasn't much shame, it
was just pain. It was just like, damn, like sucks that I cause this, you know, sucks that we have to feel as sucks that we have to some of the issues that we deal with. But you know, so I just want to come home and tell you that and just ingratitude that I'm thankful that we're doing what we're doing.
Thank you for sharing. I appreciate it, and it does help, you know, because sometimes contrary to what maybe some people may say, like I don't bring it up every day how I feel it, you know, and sometimes I don't talk about it for weeks, and I think when knowing that, like you also recognize a pain, it's nice to know that, like I'm not alone in certain pains some days. So that's a nice So I really appreciate that.
For sure.
We never talked about it, but I'm curious if you would share on here. Did you ever figure out your man period?
Oh?
So that to like make like fun of it. But like the other day, Michael was like, I think I'm on my man period.
So I have a name for it, Oh okay, which my therapist called it menopause. No, uh, it's my my comma, my comma. You guys have periods.
Interesting because it was just so like, you know, because I could tell it you were in a little you were just quieter that day, and you know, you were kind of teary eyed when you were telling me like, I don't know, but I just feel like I'm on my period. But I like it. You're You're on your comma. So what is a comma?
It's the male version of the period. Just sometimes you just have those days it just emotionally hits you. You don't know why.
So there wasn't anything under it, not that.
You can put your finger on. It was you know, uh, issues that are there always. But I think it was just just one of those days. I just as sad as it sounds, it was just one of those days. It was hard being me describe because of like my pain and shame, guilt of things that I've done, of things I haven't done, of just where it's just like most of your like you took it on. You wore that, Yeah, Like I wore it like instead of just powering through like I usually do, or it not affected me, or
it being a fleeting thought or whatever. You know me, I'm naturally an optimistic, positive person. So it was just I don't know, it was just one of those days I just couldn't.
You tried it out in it and you let it hang on you.
Yeah, you wore it. Yeah. So I mean everyone has can have those days and where it's just I'm sure to some people it makes a lot of sense. How I say, it's just hard being me, Like you know, to some people it might not make sense, like if they say that to themselves. But some can sit there and be like, yeah, it is hard being me today for whatever reason, because of stresses, because of responsibilities, because.
Of depression, anxiety.
Depression anxiety, clinical issues, addiction, whatever it is. It's just something that we're all allowed to have. That we're all allowed to have that day. Now you don't want to stay in it because then there's more issues around that.
How long is your man comma?
It was just that day, that day, Yeah, I'm good.
Now it is interesting too, And I feel like almost the timing of your comma was, you know, the night before we had like a conspiracy theory party where I wouldn't say party, but like just a get together with friends and we you know, just kind of had talked about things and it started to just I mean, I know, some of the conversations we were having about anti vaxxers, verse vaccinations, and you know, and just other things that like you've always thought and then someone's being like, well
here's this and having that debate and then you just kind of like go to bed and you're like, has everything I've learned the last thirty six years of my life a lie you know, and just trying to differentiate between that. I figured I make up that that could cause like the heaviness as well.
The next day, well for sure, especially when we touched on topics like you know, the Epstein Island and Pizzagate and the Wayfair stuff, and it's just I mean, you saw me getting animated where it's just and again, all of this was just We're just having healthy conversation with like three other couples and it was just we're all close friends, so no one's taking it personal or debating. We're just sharing our our beliefs or thoughts or whatever.
It was just it was interesting. But when it comes to the kids stuff, it just I it just it just gets me. Yeah, you know what I mean, it just it absolutely destroys me internally, and it's like I'm naive where I want to believe that there's humanity is better than that overall, but the fact that there's so many people involved with all that, it just makes me. It made me sick.
Well, moving on, let's get on to some other topics, but let's first take a break.
Hey, Mark, do we have any emails?
We do have emails. One actually mentions me by a name, which.
Is very nice. Definitely do that one all right.
It's from anonymous. She says, I'm pregnant and do soon with my second child. This pregnancy has been a struggle with so much, with so much anxiety surrounding the pandemic. We haven't seen our own parents, who all live pretty close by. I thought about the time I was ready to give birth, it we'd be in better shape, but it seems to have gotten worse for us here in Florida. One of my concerns is having or possibly not having visitors when we come home from the hospital.
I don't know how much my parents.
Are siblings would take it if we decided to keep my family away for a certain amount of time. Do I give a specific time frame, play it by ear as to when we feel comfortable, allow them to come over with masks sound, or just allow them to come.
Over and hope for the best.
I don't know if my reaction to want some time is a bit over the top or more of a normal reaction during a pandemic. I'd love to get some input, and I'm curious to know what Mark has to say.
Did she say this is their second child? Yes, and they live away from them, yeah, but not terribly.
Far away from them.
I mean, Mark, I would like to know what you think.
I think there's a way to do this. I think it would be.
Here's the problem is, there's a major spectrum of how people tackle the pandemic. And it's not just the people who say it's all a hoax versus the people who never leave their house.
There's everything in between as well.
And if you are farther towards the careful side, you're going to be made fun of by the people that are closer towards the other side. No matter where each of you fall on the spectrum, it seems like people roll their eyes even if you're wearing a mask. Everywhere you go, the person with a face shield, you roll their eyes with them, you know what I'm saying. Like
you judge everyone else on the spectrum. So if you say to your parents or your husband's parents, you cannot come over and see the newborn, I'm not comfortable.
They're not going to be happy with that. But I think there is a safe way to do it.
I think if you do it in your yard, if you do it outside and there are masks, I think it will be fine. I do think that that's the new world we live in, that we can go to restaurants, but it has to be outsided in masks.
My daughters can go to dance class, but it.
Has to be outside and in masks. That's the world now, and I think that I don't think that's dangerous. I think you're gonna be okay. And yeah, they might not be thrilled about it, but it's better than not seeing their new grandchild.
Honey. I agree, Yeah, I mean, I agree, it's it's a spectrum. I mean, the thing is is ultimately comes down to her and her husband what they feel most comfortable with. Like, I would never want someone to fault us for being like that. But at the same time, when it's your family and you're not in a different state and you still see them from time to time, they're still in your circle of people you see on
a regular basis. Now, you don't want the brand new friends you just meant to come over and see them. But if it's the people you see on a more regular basis, I don't see the issue.
I agree, all right, I got something good from our book that I want to read.
Yeah, what you got? Where's it at?
So? I'm going to only read some of it because I want you guys to finish it. I'll stop and then i'll show you where to pick up. Okay, page thirty three. Okay, So again I'm only giving. And there's something so juicy that we have not told anybody. After this part, I'm going to read you the beforehand to get you hooked, and then you're going to go on Amazon or on Mike dot com you can get the book. Here we go. I remember when I heard your side of the street in therapy. I quickly replied, oh, my
side of the street is shiny and clean, thank you. Next, it's easy as hell to point the finger at the other person, and I did it for years with Mike. I would always think, well, he's the one who looked up, so why do I need to look on my side of the street when I've done nothing wrong. It's a very narrow minded response, I know. And even though yes, I technically did nothing wrong to cause his affairs, how I handled our repair is now part of my side of the street. You can play the blame game and
point fingers for only so long. But this realization was slightly annoying for me at first. And took some time, but I knew the marriage wouldn't work out if I didn't put the pointer finger away and start cleaning my side of the street.
So how did I do that?
What does that look like look like in action? And how did it make me feel? How did it help us? Well?
For me?
This happened while I was doing Dancing with the Stars, which began only a few weeks after we separated. Mike was in rehab and I was in an all out war with my emotions. Most days I would push Mike out of my brain and try to live in the world as if he didn't exist. Other days I was too weak to push and I missed him, and I hoped he would be in the audience watching me perform,
rooting for me, regardless of how I was feeling. Whenever he would call me from rehab, I would lash out at him, tell him I didn't want anything to do with him. I would hang up and realize that I had no idea what direction my life was headed in or what I should do. The only times that gave me calm was when I looked at our baby girl. I knew that, regardless of the outcome, I wanted the
best for her. One night We've never shared this. One night, immediately after I'd finished doing the jive on the show, my manager Catherine sat me down and said, Mike filed for divorce. I thought he did what. I called him, screaming, how could you file for divorce? That's what I'm supposed to do? How dare you? He replied with Jana, you won't let me see our daughter. It's true. When he had called asking to see her, as it had already been two months since their last visit, I was so
desperate to keep close to me. The one thing that brought me calm that, even though I knew it was wrong and would hurt him, I said he couldn't see her until I finished filming, which could take a month. Suddenly, thinking about raising our daughter separately and the beginning of separate parenting, separate holiday, separate everything, a voice in my head finally spoke up in defense of this man in our marriage and Jolie. I knew what I wanted, No,
I said to him, I want to try. And then from there I go into other things that I had to own, that I did wrong and that I needed to own, and stuff that I still don't want to say own the mic yet, so I really encourage y'all to buy the book because that's the only way you're going to hear it. Michael, would you like to do the rebuttal of that part? Yeah, the mic part.
There were so many days, absolutely, There are so many days during the first year of our reconciliation after discovery of my affairs, when we thought what the fuck is going on? Honestly, most days were like that. We said
so many hurtful things during those dog days, especially me. Unfortunately, when I began to get defensive and go into a place of shame, my initial reaction is to get mean and nasty and verbally fighting back, which is absolute, which is absolutely the last thing Janet deserves after what I have already put it through. Needless to say, so many
days were filled with pain, hurt, sadness, and despair. There isn't an adjective in the English dictionary that describes how hard it was or how unattainable that so called light at the end of the tunnel seemed. But even throughout those days of misery, we were both still there. We both continued to show up, despite the fact that all it would take to end that pain was the signature at the bottom of divorce papers. We just kept showing up.
But the more therapy we went to, the more tools we learned and began practicing with one another, and more we saw that light that once seemed unattainable. That's how we knew it was all worth it. It was never an Aha moment. It was about getting down and dirty with one another, trudging through the darkest time of our lives. Nowhere was dirty or during those days than my side of the street. And like every act of serious, deep cleaning, sometimes it could be daunting. In my case, some days
it was daunting to the point of paralysis. But the promise of keeping my side of the street clean was ultimately the reason I was able to stay. Now, some of you may scoff at my saying that I chose to stay. Some of you are probably thinking he was the one who looked up. Why would he consider not staying? I get it, and Janet even said that to me your time or two. But it takes work on the part of both people to make a relationship worthwhile.
Boom, go get your book mark. Are you so excited for all the juicy details that are.
To come that's pretty good, pretty good stuff.
I'll never forget when that happened.
I was so that call when you called me.
Oh, I was furious and you're like, well, it's just like it's just you know, we can always go I was like, you don't understand if I if I now like and put it in papers too. I was like, it's done. There's no going back. Like my lawyer wouldn't have it like we would. We would just go for it.
And I was like, I want to see my daughter. It's been seventy days.
Well, you could have called me and told me.
I tried, you kept hanging up and mothercking me.
I'm just saying next time. You could have been like if you don't like you, I would have liked the threat.
Okay, fine, no the threat. No, you wouldn't even take my call. So I didn't. I couldn't even get the threat across and then go ahead.
When she called when she said I want to try, what was your reaction like? Was it relief? Was it excitement or.
Was it She didn't say she said it to herself. She will so you no.
What I said to him, I was like, you have to reverse it. If you do not reverse this divorce right now, like you do not understand, I'm gonna have to, like because my lawyer was like, you need to file now, and I was like and and my friend Catherine was just like, but isn't this what you want? And I'm like, I don't know what I want, Like I don't know. I just know that I don't want to make such a like rash decision. And if he files, then I have to like counter file. And I'm like, I just
need him to just stop and like reverse this. And he's like, well, I can't reverse it, and I'm like, then then we're done. And he's like, well, what do you want. I'm like, I just need more time, like and that was like, honestly what I need. In that moment, I was like, I like, just reverse it and then we can sit and talk because I haven't I hadn't seen him face to face. I'm like, it just was like,
if you do this now, we are done. So if if you go forward with this tomorrow morning, there will be a reverse like there will be me counters divorcing you and we are done. And he's like, well, we can take it off the table. I was like, you don't understand and there's you can't take that off when I'm when I file, it's done.
Legally, you can take it off the table can.
But like then you know, it's not like it's like, oh you filed, it's papers and like you don't get it, like you don't get the like the weight of all that stuff, like it's just for me. It's just like it's it's it's emotionally like like don't do that, like let's just.
Take I wasn't doing it as a game. I was just forcing your hand. I was just like, all right, if you're not gonna let me see my daughter, I need to do what I need to do to protect myself and see.
Her well and left the call before Janna.
Even goes, well, if you really wanted to see her, you're just shown up, and she was I was like really, I was like, you won't even take my phone call or text message and you just want me to surprise. I get it.
I just would have liked it more of a like, hey, I'm going to file if you don't let me say, and I'd have been like okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. No, you wouldn't have you'd have been like you said you were going to file one thousand percent, because that's not what I wanted.
You wouldn't believe me. You wouldn't believe me, and you would have been like, F you you don't get the file, a'll file.
I probably would have yes, like I know you where I was at then? Yeah, sure, you know what.
I don't think I've I don't know if I shared this on here or not. I don't know. So were you reading that stuff when you're talking about dancing in the stars reminded me of this sad, sad memory of that. And it was when it was when was it that you guys danced at the Grove? Were you already voted off?
I was voted off? It was that was the finale and I was singing right, that was it? That hurts my heart too, I know.
So at that point I was in la with them. It was a finale. I'd gone. You had me at one show, the show that.
We really messed up on the semi finals where I like fell, blood.
Fell, Yeah, Glove was Glove was nervous. Oh Jesus, the man was back. No, it's uh, it was it was a finale and you know you had some of your girlfriends there and like your former music manager and stuff like that, and they were all with you, and I was just kind of that whole time. I was just uncomfortable being there anyway around you and around your people and stuff. So they all were like inside the gates
at the Grove like with you. I was not. So I'm at the Grove trying to find a space to watch I'm at that uh, that Italian restaurant there on the corner right by where the fountain is where they put the stage, and I'm like trying to find a place to get close and see her. And so I go upstairsly this like second floor balcony that kind of overlooks it. I was like, oh, this perk spot just
kind of stand here in this corner. And this guy that's i don't know, working security or something comes over to me and he's like, hey, this is like a private party up here. You can't be up here, and I was like, I'm sorry to intrude. I was like, my wife is gonna sing. She's right down there, like she's gonna sing, like you know. I just wanted to get spot to watch her. And he was like no, no, like you can't be up here. So I was like, I get it, but my wife. He's like, if that
was your wife, you would be down there. And I was just like and so I just walked away. I went downstairs, and I just left the grove and I was just I just walked till I met you. Tell you guys were done, and I met you guys back at your trailer. I was able to get back around there, but just having that guy look at me like I was just so small and just insignificant as like a person, not like stature, but just as a person, just being like, dude, you're a freaking joke, Like if that was your wife,
you would be down there. And I was just like I felt like I was an inch tall. I'm sorry, come on, I mean it's you know, it's just one of those memories.
Well yeah, but life. Look at us now, We've got a book. It's coming out together. We're fighting a good fight. That's right, baby, Mark, will you will you read us an email?
Sure?
This is also anonymous. My boyfriend and I have been together for just over a year. When we started dating, we both knew I was moving to Australia to do my master's degree. In February of twenty one, we moved in together after six months of dated because it was important to me to know that how that would go before we decided if he was going to come with me. This entire time, he has been unwavering saying he is
coming with me to Australia. However, it's now time for us to start getting things paid for and sorted out, and he isn't formed me that he has not started saving. I laid out his expenses for him months ago, but didn't want to go so far as policing his finances for him. He makes twice as much as me. I've been laid off because of COVID. I'm going to have tuition on top of other expenses, and I'm ready.
So why isn't he? Is it wrong that I'm frustrated in questioning our future because of this?
No, No, I don't think so at all. I think that's something you have to do. I think it's a conversation that you know, we have. I think I think a lot of marriages have conversations about money and budgets and every respect and yeah, I think every marriage, And
I think that's healthy to have that. And I don't think that's I think that's a conversation that you know needs to have so that you guys are on the same page because you don't want that to that's that's it shows kind of his value of the dollar and everything too.
Yeah, It's it's almost like it was a you and test in this, like in this situation of how he would be with finances, not forever, but in the foreseeable future. Because if she just said, out of responsibility, hey, this is what we need to do. She even laid it out for him, Hey, if you're really serious about this, like this is what we need to do to make it happen, and he just dump paying the attention to it, I'd be.
Like, hmm, oh, well, I think too. It's like, don't just like be like I can't do this, I'm done, but just have more of a conversation around it two to be like, hey, this kind of bothered me and frustrated me, and I'm a little concerned.
Yeah, oh for sure, But I feel like.
That puts a lot of pressure on you too, Like if someone moved out for me, Like I mean, I remember talking to my high school sweetheart about it when I lived in California. I almost felt like a responsibility that like I would have to then stay with him because I'm the reason that he would have moved out to California. So then I would have like maybe stayed with him longer because I felt bad that I relocated him and that that sucks too for that person.
Well, Jack, just like when I moved to Nashville for you, you, Janna was trying to pimp me out to every like boyfriend or husband, to all of her girlfriends, like anytime, Oh, get each other's numbers? Do you like golf? Oh he likes off? Do you like this? Do you think I'm just like honey, like it'll happen like platonically, Like you can't just be like take one number, take take his number, take his number. Okay, no, I want to see you. You know, it's awkward when guys like get each other's number.
I don't know why. I just kind of is sometimes and Jan's like sitting there watching us to make sure we get each other's.
Number, and it's like, Okay, I just want you to have friends, I.
Know, But that's what I'm saying. To your point, you took on the responsibility. It's like my happy, my happiness. You made your responsibility because someone moves moves somewhere for you, So I could see how that is a lot of pressure on the person that's you know, the inspiration for someone to move.
All right, bye guys.
Yeah,