Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast. Okay, it's High Pony Day, National High Pony Day here on wind Down here mirror.
I know people can't see. I get in my DMS all the time. Can I please see the videos? But I know, and we would love to do. It's just we just do these the clips for socials and stuff. Yeah, iddios don't really work like YouTube. It's it's just like one more extra layer and it doesn't really like I would love to.
I think what they're really wanting, yeah, is my reactions. You've got good ones. Well, I've tried to lock it up a little bit lately because people are like dying. I want to see what your face was like, especially with the mic.
Yeah, the mic three part series, which I think went well.
Mature and well. I have not re listened. I sometimes will listen, uh huh to episodes we've done, but I didn't do because I just felt like I lived it and I'm done living it. Sure, Yeah, but that was great. It's like the next chapter. No pun noun and don't forget to get your New York best selling copy, oh Man Cramer or you're about to have a baby. I mean it could could it happen while we're doing this podcast? No, and well let's hope not.
You know, I think I'm in a really weird space and being just like super honest, be honest, because I mean, we'll see what date is this? You know, we record obviously a couple of days before this, errors and everything.
But this last week has just been.
Interesting, and I know I didn't post about it, and I because it's like it's one of those things where I'm in the I'm in the middle space where I almost feel like I want to protect up.
Mm hmm, this is good. Yep, We're in a very similar season. Okay, it feels like almost tell me if this feels accurate. Huh. To me, it's feeling like when I'm posting while I'm doing something, it's cheapening my experience. And so I've been a little bit more passionate. Like the whole DC trip I did, I didn't post at all. I just posted a couple days after and was like, psa, go date your husband. And then I started to make like a reel of all the pictures and then I
was like what but why for what special to me? Yeah? But like also just there is some in your in I get like extra, Mama bear. I'd imagine that feels like extra to you right now. Yeah, I don't know.
It's just like a really I was thinking about it yesterday.
Do you want to share this week? Well? I don't know.
And that's the thing because I'm like, it's the kind of the space I'm att where it's I share so much online and then there's the part where I don't want to share as much. But then also I love sharing. So it's like I'm like, I fight with myself. Well, also they're invested in your story, sure, but I also fight with what gets picked up or what said, because I mean when we went to do the baby moon thing,
it was like, oh my god, harsh. I yet it'splying a victim, you know, or or just always wants attention.
Why does this girl? And it's like because they usually just check people into hospitals for no reason.
Like you know, it's just I'm just like, you know, no, I just also wanted to say, hey, if you got back problem, it might be your kidney and you might have.
Yeah you got ninety nine problems and the kidney could be won.
Yeah, but I just I'm like, I don't want to like back in the hospital or you know, like those like Gary Staines. Yes, and then I'm like, Okay, I just really want to hunker down and cocoon and just have the sweetest memories with Jolie Jason Allen before everything. And I think it's all just like very scary too.
Yeah.
I think the unknowns of the delivery and the C section and we are now moving it up even again, and you know, so it's just a lot of stuff that I'm like, it's just feels kind of scary that I think this scarcity mindset and me makes me just want to like hunger and like keep it tight.
Yeah, that's okay. I think that's good. I think that actually God designs us to be that way right before anyway.
And then another thing too is I was in therapy, was it last week?
Yeah?
Sweet Amy? Sweet Amy.
I went to talk to Amy when I got back from press week from the book.
And.
As we're always learning and growing, there's things that obviously we feel, and so I was telling her some things that I'm still kind of struggling with right and I feel really good with it now after I discussed it with her, but it was basically, it's hard for me when people in my not I'm not even circle, it's
not circle at all. It's the people outside the circle that no matter what you do or say, they're going to have their opinion of you no matter what, Like their minds are already made up, right, And so an instant or instance instance, an instance came up where someone associated but not in the circle, I just think, no matter what I do, this person has already made their mind up about me. And for me, it's frustrating because I'm like a part of me wants to be like, well,
that's not who I am. You're hearing and you're you're listening to people from even two years ago. Was I'm a totally different person from two years ago?
How far removed? Yeah?
And I'm like, why do I feel like I have to defend myself that I'm this new person? Why do I feel like I have to be like, well, I've done X, Y and Z, and you know that person kind of knew the old me or the old me and my or my thirties or whatever. And it's but it was hard for me when someone you know is allowing what that person says I'm like, you, you haven't even given me a chance to show you a different person of me, and so I'm like I had to somehow.
I don't know if that anyone that bothers anyone else, but like for me, I was like, why do I still feel It's not that I want that one person to know that I've changed because this point I did for a while, because I remember when I even got divorced.
I'm like, why does he hate me?
Like I didn't do all of the pain, you know, like he also so I'm like I could hate him, Like why you don't get to hate me or like just one sided, you know, like it just felt so I remember having a certain situation with this somebody else. I'm like, you also did X right, I've owned up to my part and you've never owned up to yours and you still walk around and talk bad about me, and that bothers me because I'm like, but because you haven't owned your piece too, like I've owned mine.
Yeah. I struggle when people can't own period. Yeah, Like it's okay, make mistakes, change be whoever. I never had a problem with that. That's just being human. When there's no ownership, I struggle hard. I just need you to say, man, I can't believe I did. I don't even actually, I don't even have a cookie cutter template for how.
I like the apology to look at all. The thing is I don't even need an apologize. That's saying like I just long gone wanted apology from anybody. It's just the person that still will say bad things where I'm like, but and totally you're right, I was X, Y, and Z one thousand percent, But do you want to also say what you did? Yeah? Also also contributed to my little like Craig cry, you know what I mean two years ago?
Right? More than right? So like what are we doing? Like?
But like I think when then when I was like really hurt about this other situation that involved the other person, I was kind of like, man, like what have I done to.
Them?
Like like like buddy up? And then I was telling her, I was like it was really affecting me because I'm like, I it hurt me, like it hurt my feelings, and I just you know, I want I've tried so hard to get to the other side of all the healing and the growth, and every day you know.
Is you you do better.
And you learn and whatever. But I was like, Amy, why is this peace still bothering me? And She's like, people will go to other people to fit their narrative.
That's what I was gonna say.
Whether it's true or not true, they have already made your mind up about you, and now they want someone else to carry along that narrative so that they can feel that they're justified in how they feel or look at you or think about you.
I deal with it in my own family system, and I'm the villain.
Yeah, And I'm like, no matter, because there was something that even came out to where it's like there was this and this is why I think I want to like write another book, And this is why I think I'm wanting to just go in word more is because people think I have control over interviews and editorial. What the editor writes. Ninety percent of those things get that get picked up. I don't interview for they just pick up from my stories, which this back in the day.
The trolls would say I pay for them, which is insane.
I would pay not to because it gives me anxiety.
I don't write it because it's usually not something nice that they pick.
Up yeah, so and then they create literally a whole story around it, but if you really read, it's just a bunch of filler words and like one quote from me, yeah.
And if from from like an instagram or something, right, and what was then being written about im? Like, I don't control what they write. I don't, nor do I look at it. But again, and it fits someone's narrative that oh yep, she's trying to exclude or trying to not exclude, but you know, trying to manipulate something. I'm like, Okay, again, that's your narrative that you're always going to believe about me. That's not the case. And so that's where I just
have started to feel just icky with social media. I'm in the space I just want to now just hunker and protect and.
I think you should honor that. Thank you.
But also it was after talking to Amy, there was this freeing release of going, I know what the truth is. So there's no point again in me constantly feeling like I have to defend myself. It's like the last piece. It's like I've done so much freakin' work, and that's the piece that's been the hardest for me to let go is that No. No, Like I'm a good person. I've learned, and I was even seeing it in my
messaging during press week. It's like I've owned up to my toxic patterns and yes, I was manipulative and yes, and I didn't even it's the book. Isn't about the fact that I was lied to, cheated in X, Y and Z or any of those things, or I owned my Yeah, you know my piece of it ends. Looking in the mirror, I'm like, why am I doing it so hardcore? Being like I've fought and I've learned.
The last piece you need isn't yours.
Yeah.
But then I was like, I'm really trying to push something and I just need to, Like, I know that I've changed and I've grown and I've seen things differently front row. So I'm like, why do I feel like I have to try to convince those certain people that hurt me that can't be convinced either way. I can never be convinced. You will always have their opinion and that's fine. And it was like this once we talked about it, this.
Like weight that got lifted.
I was like, there is nothing that I can do ever ever, and I just have to go okay, and it was this weird, crazy release, and so I was I was thinking about it, and I was wondering whether to talk about it or not on the show. But I think we care too much about and I think it's shame because I don't love that I was that person. Sure, but I also know why, given my past and everything else that I wrote about the next chapter. But you know what I'm saying, get your New York Times bestselling copy,
That's what I'm saying. Like it's that I get it, but you just say you don't have to do that. Ex People, It's like, can't I talk to you about it on the phone. So I'm really torn up about it. We just have to stay in a place of empowerment for ourselves. And that feels like when I even say that, I feel in my body it's like we know who we are. The people we loved the most in our inner circle know exactly who we are.
They know the work we've done. We know and like, yeah, and there's just no, You're never going to convince people otherwise. And most of the time I would say I'm no psychologist, But ninety nine percent of the time, I feel like the people that can't change the narrative in their mind. It's because they have massive wounds, huge insecurities. Something hits a chord with them that they feel like they just
so they just keep continuing. It's better to just keep being in this like ugly little circle where we can keep talking about somebody over two years ago that you knew for ten minutes. Like it's exhausting and it's not up to us.
No, And so that was our love and energy is better served in other circles, Yeah, like our f And I still like it's still I'd still hate it, of course, bummer. It is a bunch is a bummer because I'm like, I don't I would like the opportunity to be seen or given the chance. Having said that again, when you go to other people that are probably not going to have the best things to say about me, you're now
just trying to fill, yeah, your own opinion. They can't hear it because they've already they've already made up their minds. So what Amy had said, she goes, this is going to be weird, and she's like, but it feels like a very like spiritual attack. So she goes pray for them, and that's actually worked when you pray for those people mm hmm to have a softer or I'm like, huh, okay, yeah and nice it was worked.
Yeah, I like it. I've been doing a two part prayer, okay, one part protection, but what I always feel like I pray for is protection only. And I don't ever pray for the changed heart of another person. I never pray for the dismantling of a person or a narrative. I think it's because I don't feel a out of hope.
Yeah.
Well she said it could be twenty years, it could be never, but at least it softens the Yeah, you're at least putting out love as opposed to putting out a closed door. And I'm a closed I'm a drawbridge up kind of gal. Anyways. Yeah, I just isolate, and I'm like, yep, I mean I'm supposed to do two events today. I've already take myself out of one, but I'd rather be home. But yeah, a safe place. Well that's the thing too.
I think with the arrival of babes and like the scary things that could happen, I'm just kind of like, you know what, I'm going to just protect, yeah, and just hunger.
Yeah, this is good. Yeah, get in draw bridge out if anyone queen is having a baby for better calmdown is on every day.
Jolly is like these money days, these money days. I'm excited.
I sent the new new new C section date to the girls. And what did you say? You're like something about I said, sorry, I'm late. I was scrubbing in for the oor.
Yeah, and he said, Alan only knew that this is my baby.
Not poor Alan. He's so cute. You think like, I'm gonna like intersect. Does they hand the baby? I'm like, Alan, look what we've got. He's like, can I hold my child? I'm going to give you space as long as you need it. Oh man, But the minute you're ready for me to breathe your air, I am just in the parking lot. I just need prayers. We've got good prayers.
Good.
This is going to be the delivery. Got a lot on your plate. You're doing great. I'd like to say thank you. You're doing a great job. There's a lot to navigate. I'm four months almost five months postpartum, and the hormones and the emotions and the last bit right before you have the baby. It's a lot I look back now and I'm like, whoah, I really said that, or whoa, I really did that.
I don't know if we talked about on here but to that point the other day because I just with everything going on and I'm just it's a lot. And he goes, Babe, you're gonna be You're gonna be good in just so many days. And I'm like, no one educates the postpartum part because I'm like, yeah, I'll be happy, babies out and healthy and mom self like I want everyone healthy.
But then come the.
The roller coaster the postpartum. He's like, what what's that? And I'm like, oh my god.
Maybe we have allan interest. Grab a beer together, just talk about a couple of things.
I don't think anyone talks about that. Anyone talks about the emotions after baby. No, I don't think you understand. You will walk into the room and I remember this with both kids. I will be crying and I will have no idea why no.
And you're exhausted too. I mean that doesn't help. They're sleeped. I mean they use sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation as a torture tactic for a reason. Yeah, I mean you go we go in and it's an incredible, beautiful experience and you're it's the nights and the dark circles, and it's you know, it's everything, and it's also layered and tired and hormonal. And you've got two big kids. We're navigating
the middle kids space right now. At home with Leggie, Sweet Leggie, we had he went through a time where he was pee in his pants, which is not like him. It's okay. So we're just seeing everything for what it is and what you know, instead of being like, you know, come on, buddy. You know, I'm like, okay, little control over something. We're just navigating. But I've noticed my feelings towards them. They make me emotional because I'm like, you deserve You've had more of me than you're getting. So
that's an adjustment. And now we have this person who we're all obsessed with. We can agree on that. Company morale seems like it's at an all time high, but the CEO is a little distracted and that's hard on them too. I can see it. Well, you have your kids at home too. I do all the time, so that's I can't even imagine that. Yeah, because I think I'll be able to, and the summer was hard because it was like hot, I couldn't I mean we had a heat advisory for four minutes, so we couldn't go
run or walk orl sprain tailbone. Elder mom over here was we should get Preston and Alan on the next because we should be able to record one more. So, yeah, it'd be kind of fun we can talk about. Preston is actually pretty into pretty insightful. Words are tricky. He's more insightful this time around. It's been really cool to watch. Did you do it? I think you'd do it?
Yeah, that'd be fun to get the guys on just the kind of the episode before, because he I think it would be beneficial for your partnership.
Uh huh, yeah, because I because the first time Preston struggled, he was like, I don't know what happened to this woman I'm in love with? Where'd she go?
Right?
I mean it was wrong?
Well yeah again, because I think they're just they think once the baby's out, everything's just you're good and everything goes back to normal. I'm like, doesn't it take a year for your hormones to go back after baby?
Minimum? Some new study says seven years or something now. So I just got back to her, can't wait. I'll see you in twenty thirty when we get our shit together.
Oh I love.
It's a lot, and it's a beautiful a lot, but it's still a lot, and they can't understand what we go through. They just can't. Well.
And bless Alan too, because I mentioned the night nurse to him and I just said, hey, I'm really thinking about a one night a week night nurse if that's you know, And he didn't. He's like, what's a night nurse? He's like, someone just takes your baby. And for me, third kid, I'm like, here, have my baby. I don't even need aground check.
Do you just know what sleep will do for you too?
Right?
And that's what I said, I'm like, And that was along the same conversation of the whole postpartum and what that could look like and how that can affect not sleeping. So I said, you know, Kristen had recommended someone and I love and trust her. Yes, I'm like, it's just it would just be one day a week. And you know, I think he's not really sure how he feels about it, But for me, I'm going to be like, I just know that that's what I will own because I will
want to get up if not. But I know I need at least need like one good nights.
I feel like you and I are family here, you know, so I'm like, yes, doesn't say we're so similar to in the way we're wired, like when it's time to get things done, we get things done right. Also we're older moms. This time, I did use the night dola. Actually two nights a week for a couple of weeks. Okay, just because I I had to start slow with them, you know. He's so old school with yeah, yeah, no, but it was I shamed myself or something like, I'm I can do this, and I like moms do it.
Yeah yeah, and they do do it all the time, but usually grandma's there with a cast role and there's an aunt to come. Well, you shan't poo your hair something like, we don't have that, so we have to lean into the community, you know, back in the I won't take too much time on this, but like back in the back back days, the way back machine men went out and hunting, hunted and gathered, and women communitied up and they raised kids together. That's where the wet
nurses came from. They would nurse each other's babies and they would be able to talk to each other and make dinner together. And like, we are literally the only country that just has a baby and then we exile ourselves into our home by ourselves. So like the idea of like community and village and love is like what we're supposed to do. And so I think it's actually a little more godly and beautiful when we allow the help. That's how the stance I've kind of had to take
to make myself feel better about it. I think too, But like that the women that you're allowing into your life to take care of the baby are also beautiful, wonderful humans, like do La Katie, Like I want to bring her back just because I want to hang out with her. And she just let me cry and she helped me pump and like figure out my body and she just was like, yeah, yeah, you shouldn't host Thanksgiving and I was like thanks, you know, but like it's
a beautiful that's what we're supposed to do. Yeah, community, village, which is why I'm like, are you coming over for Thanksgiving? Oh? I'm coming with mashed potatoes and I can't wait to hold the baby the entire time. But I won't do it if you don't want me to, but I'm here if you do, I'll wear him. I just want to startlegs to mine.
Okay, So we're going to take a break and then we are going to talk to Zach and Bliss from Love is Blind Season four because they are in love and ready to do the thing. So take a break and get him on. We were just saying, I mean the love is blind concept. I feel like I kind of love Okay, So I got to see Preston right. I could not do this Love is blind, but I kind of love was blinded for like six weeks because I like met Preston weird, smitten, like head over heels,
like not like my personality type weird. At the time, I like had a severe early allergy to mend like I was like, I can't. I don't your gender as a whole, like you know.
Okay, So we met and then I was going to meet back up with him, like six weeks later. We talked on the phone every day till four, laughing, giggling, whatever, And then I thought, I don't even know how big he is. I don't know how tall he is, Like what if I what if I'm bigger than him? I remember him not being like a super giant guy. Sure, And so then I was like, am I gonna look like one of those like floats from the Macy's Day parade, like coming in for a kiss?
Who big?
You know? Like, but like that stuff does. Like I hate to say it, but I the physical attraction matters. The intellectual attraction is incredible, No.
I feel because it's kind of the same with Allen and I like when he reached out to me in October, I just saw his little icon because he was private on Instagram at the time, so I just saw his little teeny icon.
And it's his whole body, so you can't even really see his face anyway. Yeah.
And then when I we messaged back and forth a little bit in October and then November we FaceTime for the first time, I'm like, okay, but I still feel like face fime and photos they don't give you the no, no, no no. I was obviously attracted to him. Sure, you just when you don't have the whole yeah picture as I didn't. I need to know how you smell. But I love the ext like I can't.
I am, I don't I need a I need a smell like I I literally right now would go smell Preston's face. Yeah, sounds creepy, don't care like it's He's just like yummy to me. I love the intellectual piece of meeting someone building a good building a good trust in relationship and rapport.
Before the meeting. That was cool because then it felt even more connected.
Yeah. And then when he turned around that's and I was like, oh, let me have your baby. I'm done. We'll be pregnant soon. It will be done, will be done. Yeah, it's weird like that. The proposal piece on love is blind. They don't get to see. They don't propose in person either, so that is always fascinating to me. Like they get down on one knee.
Which is interesting though because so they're like down one knee at the frosted glass. Yeah, so that piece is very interesting. But also because he picks Zach, this is this is what's even more interesting. Zach picks Irena first, and Mary's and h right, but he sees Bliss. So I'm wondering because you know, he didn't he didn't marry He marries Bliss, but he picked Irena. They go off, Oh that's right, before they get married, they go on
a trip. Yeah okay, yeah, yeah, crap, hits the fan, Yeah, Mexico, in Mexico. But I'm wondering if he's if he thought when he saw Bliss. I just want to know what made him pick Irena then over Bliss, and then how them meeting up to actually see each other, what that moment was. I remember watching a couple seasons where there was people that I thought like, I could not I'm
not a reality TV fan. I mean I say that all the time, right I got I went all in I love is blind because I was so fascinated, like, can you really truly make a connection with someone you don't you can't smell their face like a creep.
I don't think I could do it. I know I couldn't because it does matter to me, it does. I need that if you're really funny, you have a chance.
I will say this though, no matter how handsome sexy someone is, because I've I mean, Alan to me is the most sexiest man I've ever been with. I think he's so incredibly handsome. Also to Mike part of me. He's also that to Mike.
Oh yeah.
We were at the pumpkin patch a couple of weeks ago and I was like, I got to go to the bathroom. He's like, Mike said, it's fine, the two dads will just be here, and I said, please don't hold his hand because I know you want to. You guys are getting weird, Like Mike, I know you want to hold his hand. But yeah, Alan is like extremely handy. He's so handsome. But if he had a because you know, we've all dated some good looking dudes, of course, he's
again the most handsome man I've ever dated. But remember dating you know, people that are good looking, and if they don't if one was not very respectful to other people, if a little conceited, X Y and Z, if there's also not that chemistry or a conversation, I don't care how good looking you are. So that's the piece of love of mind I could do. But I also need the other piece. Yeah, I need I need you to be funny. Yeah, and I need you to not be stinky and so I can get your humor through the
frosted glass or whatever. But if you I just can't do that. Your first question would be, so, what kind of cologne do and how often do you shower?
Yeah? I need like a good hygiene moment.
Okay, So Zach and Bliss are here, Let's figure it out and see if they had any issues about what the scent might be. Which, let me tell you a cent when you're pregnant something it matters. I'm like, I like, I made Alan throw away his car. You have paid so many things. I haven't been able to wear perfume. I know, I stink. That's I write a car thing in the in the car, I said, Babe, I cannot ride in your car if this stays in here because I'm going to vomit.
Doul Changabana light blue, the women's version, vomit. I can't do any of it. Nope, I feel bad.
Yeah, I even there was something else I said bybe I can't with a scent smell of bacon. There was just like bulldog wash that he would wash with bulldog normally.
I ithing, but every time I'm like, did he smell like you need to discarf around his neck in a little tag or hey guy, we just went off on a terrible tangent. So thank you.
You actually saved us from myself because we were talking about sense and how scent is very important, and she was saying, with love is blind, She's like, you can't smell him. How do you know that they smelled it? Like what if they stink? You should have thought about that, bliss.
Yeah I did. I was like, the pheromones are so important, Like you know what, it doesn't matter. A sense just kind of off and it's like you can't quite place it, but it's just that person's scent and it matters a lot. Thank goodness, he smelled.
Okay, okay, so we just need to I want to break down a few things because obviously you guys, are you been married for a year now.
Almost a year and a half and a couple of days a year and a half, Yeah, congrats, thank you.
Obviously want to talk about that, but we like to talk about the past here on wind Up.
Sometimes welcome to our hot tub time machine.
Sometimes too much, but I the whole because I was fascinated when I remember what was his name was on the Bachelor and he picked someone else, and then I've made think that happened a couple of times. It was a while ago, like when I really really watched it, was he ended up picking someone and then he realized that he made a mistake and he went to the other girl, and so Jason Mesnik, thank you, Hannah, and so I just remember that season really sticking out to me.
And obviously they've been married now forever and they're the cutest. But for you, Zach, when you picked the other girl, was there a piece of you that knew right then that you were making a mistake or was it he drinks his water?
Is it water, Zach?
What are you up to over there? Buddy, Zach? He's a little helper in a cup.
So to answer your question, I think the phrasing is really important there because this is something I've talked quite a bit about, you know, at nauseum, but I.
Know I had a feeling, but not on wind and we need.
To know, Yeah, they should have it down then your answer, right.
Yeah, thanks. Maybe I think there's a misconception that happens when you're looking at a scenario like that, Right, you make an assumption that someone's making their decision based on rational benefit, Right, that it's a that's a decision based on like Okay, we're this is the best thing for me. I'm going to go with this. But people usually don't think about fear and the way that that affects decision making. And so in that situation, it was never a situation
where it was like a comparison. And I think that that is the the component. Like they were too fundamentally different people, right, And I certainly had stronger feelings for Bliss, and maybe I wasn't even fully aware of that, but because of that, I was afraid of what would happen if it didn't work, and there were a lot more well if we got engaged in it didn't work?
Right, Like that was a was you and Bliss so like? So you thought that you had it a little less? What's the like you had a better math, I guess with the other girl, like.
Our brains.
Yeah, Like I said, I don't know if I would use the word better right when when I when I look at what was going on in my mind, Bliss and I had had and you can't you don't get to see all the conversations, right, But Bliss and I had talked about some pretty big obstacles that we were going to have to overcome if we got engaged. And one of those being my allergies, which is a big deal. You don't You don't really see very much of that conversation,
but I was diagnosed with allergy and dustasma. And Bliss has a well we have an adorable question, well done, and a beautiful little kitten.
You have a now stuffed cat. We have a cat that lives remotely at Bliss's mom's house.
Yeah. The first time, the first time I came to Bliss's house, I had a huge allergy attack. So this is something we discussed in the pods. And Bliss's response is not the best.
Yeah, I reacted. They're like my babies, my animals, So I reacted pretty poorly to him telling me he had allergies. But I think, if I may, Babe, I think what you're trying to say is that I don't want to put words in your mouth to correct me that you there was a greater risk of invested feelings being hurt if he went with me. There was less risk to go with her because it didn't work out. Yeah, sure, maybe it wouldn't have It wouldn't have been as harmful
or as impactful. I don't know. You let me know if that's like what you're thinking what you were.
Doing that that's one way to describe it. I think that when when I was going through this, it's really hard.
Guys, I just want to say, I cannot imagine doing what you did, so like, and you don't only just do that. It goes like it's national TV, and now that we have Netflix, it's like we can rewatch you a gazillion times and the judgment that comes with it. So like, I just hats off to both of you that you can even pod up and even participate in this project, because this is like, this is life and it's love and it's learning a person. But you don't
even get to see bliss. You're you're so pretty. I mean obviously we pick bliss over everything, but you're not. You're not dealing with like real life, yeah in this, so for you to pick one over the other, like, just know we're we're in We're in team love is blind over here and we're not judging New Zac, but we do need we like a little dirt, no worry.
I like to sometimes just bring it up, keep them on his toe. Yeah, I totally get it.
Was it hard though, getting the because obviously when you went on that trip, you go, Okay, this is not my person, and hats off to you for not staying in something because I can imagine when you go on a show like this, people I think stay together because
that's what other people want. And so you realizing that, Okay, this isn't going to work, and then you reach back out to Bliss and then hearing things that I guess she wasn't nice on the reunion which I didn't see that, or you know, sending you mean things Bliss, It's like, how do you then kind of walk that rope because obviously there's hurt feelings and they're going to project it. So then what do you do with that projection?
Yeah, so I just to kind of wrap back to the last question and try to sustinctly answer that question, and then I ultimately the experiment creates these connections right pretty rapidly, and you're you're put into this position where sometimes even unbeknownst to you, you will develop feelings for multiple people and you those can be different types of connections, if that makes sense, And I think it was when we
when we were in the pods. Ultimately, with Bliss, I was just afraid of all the obstacles, and I was afraid that it just wouldn't work, and that was why I ended up not going with Bliss. But it was never it was never like in the Pods. It was never a situation where it was like a, well this is this is one you know looking at Uh. It wasn't a comparison. I guess that's just I think a lot of people when lot in within the question, it's usually is a comparison like, oh, why would you do
this over this? And it's it's it's more complicated that. But when when I did make that decision, my body and my my subconscious was certainly telling me that I had I had made a mistake that the logical mind didn't quite perceive in the moment, and I could feel that immediately after Blisten, I ended our relationship in the Pods as far as Mexico goes, and kind of everything
that had happened. I it took me kind of a while to to kind of get over what had happened, because it was it was just a lot of it is a lot to go through, right like, everything that happened. But I also don't want to I don't really want to rehash all of that.
Oh, we don't need to rehash that. It's more just when it all comes back and people are being projecting their stuff, it's like, how do you kind of go, Okay, I have to boundary up and not let that into our now new relationship Bliss and Zach.
You know, for me, I.
Was really grateful that from filming to the time where it was actually released there was a significant amount of time. It was almost a year, so you're really able to like form our foundation and our marriage and work through any questions. And we had just like discussed everything really really deeply. And I've always kind of been the type of person that's able to put my walls up and
kind of ignore the masses or opinions. And I think a lot of it has to do with how I was raised, and I was really lucky to have that kind of mindset going into all of this. It still is always like hurtful to hear people speak negatively about your relationship or you know, I got tons of messages about being second choice and all of these things, and you deserve better, and it's it. Honestly, that's just not
how I perceived it. Because there was other relationships that I had in the pods too, right where you're forming these relations at the same time, it's it's not about being second choice. So he just never made me feel that way. I think that's why I was so calmly able to react when we did end things. You know, I was very like I respected him as a person,
I wanted him to be happy. But I just think I think it's just so it's just you can't live your life that way, like listening to what other people say, and a lot of the times you're right, it's about projecting like people are like I was in that situation, or someone chose over me and they're angry at you or at Zach or that's the situation because they're hurt
with their own feelings. And any messages that I ever did respond to around that topic, I actually said those things like I hope that you heal from your trauma or whatever happened to you.
And that's awesome that we're talking about the top of our show too, where it's just people are going to project their own their own true feelings and they don't really get to chance to understand y'all's relationship or you as a person exactly.
But again, really grateful for that time. I think I really love that about Love is Blind. I don't think that the Bachelor has as much time in between the filming and the actual release, and I think that's why maybe there's a lot of like failure or not not failure, people breaking up in that you know, in that what's.
It called timeline window?
Yeah, timeline, yes, mad mad.
Math is the default term.
So you okay when you guys got back together, though, I'm curious because it wasn't on technically like the show timeline or the show contract, So what made you then want to expedite the getting married proposal? And listen, I can't talk. I got engaged with in six months. So I'm the person that's like, when you know, you know, and we're all at the age where we know when we know, and so I've and that's the narrative that
you know. Even my podcast producer when I told him I was engaged, he's like, oh my god, like you only know. I'm like, okay, but that's my decision. My choice is my timeline, our timeline. And it might not make sense to America that we got engaged this fast
and having a baby and everything else. But it's our timeline, and it's I don't I personally don't think you have to be with someone for years in years to then that's you know, people think like, oh, you have to do this person for these many years, then you can engage and then this and it's like okay, but that might not. But then you can also break up a year later. And some people that I know have been together, you know, got engaged in three months and they've been
together for twenty years. So what's your kind of stance on all that.
I'll go really quick. I might contend to be a little bit more sustinct than Zach and still let's give more time. But I, for me, I'm a very spiritual person and I truly feel like from our dates in the pod, like I knew that he was my person, Like it was just kind of like this deep knowing in my bones, like I'd never experienced anything that before. I thought maybe I'd experienced that before, but when I actually did, I it was just like something I've never
experienced in my life and I just knew it. And I was like, why I've been looking for it in my whole life, Like why do I need to waste time right, and it just felt right for us. It kind of felt like it always was just supposed to be us and it was just correcting the path. And so it didn't feel that weird to me to get engaged and to go proceed with the wedding and just felt like that was just how it was supposed to be.
We're a couple of path correctors here on this couch as well. Sure we were not blindly dating in pods and accidentally picked the wrong person a couple time.
That's fine, it happens, but.
It is crazy. It is when you know you know, I mean, that is something I never experienced until I met my husband current husband. Yeah, and you don't, it doesn't. It's it is a really cool knowing to just be like I mean, Janea and I just talked about this yesterday or this week off the podcast, but I was like, I he is my person. She was like, he really is your person? And I said, I know. It's like I can't describe why he is, but he will always be.
And when you know, you know, so you fly. So for people that didn't watch this, you and Irena go to Mexico. It's a disaster, is the show? Part of you flying to Seattle or do you go. I've got to get to this girl producers give me her address.
So it was a it was kind of a complicated situation the way it all went down. When I guess when I got back, I was like devastated right after everything that I like, everything that I went through. It was it was a lot because I think initially when I broke up with Bliss and the Pods, I was really really messed up, like really messed up, and it took me a while to kind of get over it. And like you can kind of see, there was I remember when we get interviewed in the podse and I
remember one of our producers asked me a question. He's like, you don't look like you're ready to to propose, and I was just like, you know, I'm just dealing with with the like what had happened, and I I I was, you know. And then so I kind of got myself where I was like, Okay, we're gonna move on. You know, you made a mistake. You're going to live with it, and it's what's done is done. You made your choice.
So that that was really my mindset, and there wasn't like a part of me that was like, I'm gonna go back and try to to like win win Bliss over. I really was like I made my choice. It was I'm going to move forward with this. And as I you know, after I got engaged and everything that kind of happened while was in Mexico. So Bliss had given me a couple of gifts. She had given me this book Read Rising by Pierce Brown, and she also gave
me this Court's Heart that I still have. I actually kept it with me when we got married, Rose Courts Heart, you know, and like while I was in Mexico and things were going terribly, I just kept looking at that heart and and it just it gave me a little bit of solace and it made me feel just a little bit better. And like every day I would sit there and I was like, dude, you you, regardless of whether it would have worked, you should have you should not have made the decision that you did and.
Done the wrong, math all done the wrong.
And then I would I would read the book that she had given me, and it was that the books were what really was where my attraction and spark with Bliss really started. Is we started talking about our like our passion for literature, and we really connected on that. And as I was reading the book, I was like, wow, she really gets me. Like every time I would read it, I was like this, this we connected so deeply on on things that we are our passion about and that
we enjoy. So I was going through that and honestly, like my thought was just and she had kind of given me some warnings in the Pods too that I had not heeded. So part of me, part of me going into it like once we got back, was I I kinda I kind of need to apologize, like because of just the way everything went down. And also I wanted to give her a gift because she had given me multiple in the Pods, so I actually I didn't know what I was going to give her, and it's
it's funny. So I was looking around and I thought about our conversation in the Pods about how you want to tell them what.
You Oh, I like really want to go to the moon. As cheesy as that sounds, like, I've been if I'm like ninety years old, like one day before I die, I want to go.
It's not that far off, sis.
It's right, right. I feel like it'll be like reasonable at that time, of.
Course it will Bliss in space. I'm here for it.
Her dream was the one day walk on the Moon, and so I looked over and I have these two bookends and they're my favorite book ends, and there are two astronauts on the moon holding the books together, and so I was like, that's that's the gift, right, So I brought that with me to give to Bliss, and
when we met, the plans changed. It was just the second like I could I could feel the connection the moment she walked in the door, and the chemistry was really really strong, like it was the second that she came in. My first thought was uh oh, like uh uh oh.
Is that the first time you actually saw her in person too?
Yeah, yeah, it's very nerve wracking. In a public place, it was like, oh my gosh, it was so nerve wracking.
And so I'm sitting there thinking like, okay, I could just I could feel like this this is probably my wife, Like I just there was something in that moment when we met. And I wasn't certain about it because I like to deliberate over decisions, but I knew that there was something incredibly special there and I had known in the Pods. I was so close to getting engaged to her that logically, in my mind, I'm like, Okay, you know everything that matters is there, and you know that
you can feel this connection. And so it was a pretty short turnaround. It was about a week before we met to when I was like, on a knee.
What's been the best and what's been something that you guys go, Okay, we gotta work on this a little bit.
Yeah. We both are very strong headed people. We both like to express our opinions, and I think we're both used to being with people that kind of just like go with the flow of whatever or just agree with whatever is, so we challenge each other in that. I think we definitely he's a very strong person. I actually like, really respect him. He's so intelligent, and I haven't really been with someone that I like I can trust their opinion on things. I'm like, oh, I didn't think.
About it that way.
I'm usually just used to relying on myself. So that's been a challenge and like a really beautiful thing in my opinion.
So I would say I don't know if my experience has been that I have typically been attracted to maybe that's just strong, strong willed women. Yeah, I think that that's one of the things I find very attractive about Bliss. And yeah, so for me, I'm very comfortable with conflict. I think it's a natural part of relationships, and so I don't mind that I think they are. It is interesting though, we both are to some degree verbal processors, and so sometimes in conversations that can be difficult when
both people want to process things verbally. Yeah, yeah, exactly so. But we've learned that. And also I think that one of the biggest things that we've learned in our conflict style is at least that I have learned, is it. I just think I have to give Bliss time. You know, if we have she will listen to me, but she won't always ignoge what I'm saying until she's had some time to reflect on it. But she almost always does. Our very first fight went exactly like that in the Pods. It was weird.
Yeah, they don't show that we had an argument in the pods.
Yeah, we had all we had a big conversation about whether her family was going to accept me, and she did show that part. Yeah, and then about the allergies and like the obstacles that we were going to face,
and it was pretty heated. And then when we came back Bliss that on our next date, Bliss was very calm and collected, and she showed a level of maturity that was incredibly impressive in the way that she was able to articulate understanding my emotions and the way that I was feeling and how that was going to affect me. So I've learned when she gets a little riled up, to just let her be a little riled up and then you know, wait, wait a couple hours and then we can talk.
Yeah, that makes that makes perfect sense. What is if you can to wrap up?
What is it?
What is the takeaway that you want people to have when it comes to you guys as a couple.
I think for me, Zach, I wasn't. I wasn't. I guess I hadn't been in situations where I was so quick and easy to forgive people and to give grace so quick and easy. It's been a long journey for you. People will see like, oh you you're so gracious and forgiving, and that that took a lot of work for me. It wasn't in my twenties I was not on that train, on that path, and it took a lot of work.
But I think our experience, like really, really truly like showed me how to deeply, truly, hundred percent forgive and give grace. And I think our story, if I want, I want people to take that from that, you know, from our stories, Like it's so important to give grace. It's so freeing to be forgiving, not only of that person but of yourself. It's a beautiful thing that I hope everyone learns to do. So for me, I would say.
That he meant to.
I think that there's two things that I would I would want people to take from our relationship. One is what Bliss just said. I think that's the most important thing to me. And that was the most important thing to me at all on the show. And we had such a beautiful cast that was so graceful and gave gave forgiveness where maybe it wasn't it wasn't due. But that's the beauty about grace, right, is that it's not necessarily deserved, but when we give it, the world becomes
a more beautiful place. We break that cycle of violence, we break that cycle of pain, and like that's what that is the story of our love, right, is that bliss could have been I was mad.
I was mad. I was able to.
Yourself to go to Mars, buddy, because I'm going to be I'm a moon.
It was. Yeah. So I think that that's so many people. There's people who've hurt you. There's things that have happened to you in your life, and if you hold on to those or try to punish people for the things that they've done to you, you're only making the world just a little darker, Right, even if it doesn't benefit you, it'll benefit someone else, right if you give that grace. But it's a hard it's a hard question. It's something that I really dealt with with my experience in the Pods.
Back to your question about the Mexico thing, because there's there's grace, but then there's also like trying to balance truth and acknowledging the truth of what has happened. And it's not healthy to allow like someone to engage in
really toxic behavior and not to acknowledge it. Right, Like, grace doesn't mean that you know, Grace doesn't mean that there's not accountability and it and for me, it was like, what's the balance though, it was really like what's the balance, how what's the minimum amount you need to say to to be honest and and and hold someone accountable without
churning into you known, condemning them. Yeah, and that that's that's something that I still have still work on in my own life, and it's a it's a process of becoming better at that. The the last rant that I would say is that I think, look like there's a lot of people out there that are lonely, that are that are hoping to find their person, to find love.
And I would just say it's it's going to come on its own time, and that like for us, I mean we met, I was I was really thirty thirty two, I guess, yeah, thirty Yeah, And so there's like a long time, like I was very serious about finding a wife. That's what I wanted personally, and I went through a long process of like trying trying to go through that knowing what I was looking for, but not quite finding it.
Yeah, I don't force it, I think is a big thing, right, t wait for it. It's worth the wait.
You just have to take risks though, Like that's that's the biggest thing you have to put yourself out there.
Love is blind. Just go for it.
Yeah, blisk blisk could have sure that they're sent is good.
There was a real part of me when I when I proposed to blist. I mean it was a week after I got back. Yeah, And there was a real part of me when when we got on the boat. I always thinking I made it, so I may get rejected on National TV on this boat and it's going to be really awkward. I had a hunch that it wasn't going to happen, but I didn't know by no means that I know. It was a real surprise.
So I'm so happy for you guys, and I love the fact that you're just allergied up with all your meds. So yeah, way we can keep the Do we have an an an by to babies too? Or is there going to be babies in the future.
That's a good question. Do you have an allergy to human babies?
I don't think so you guys can talk about this in the I'm like, I should have found that one. There's no EpiPen for that, Zach, So we're gonna need you to get on board, buddy. But kids and kids in the future, you.
Think yeah, yeah, really close with our families and our nieces and Matthews. So one day yeah, hey, well I love it.
Well, congrats, thank you for coming on the show. And uh, we're no, we're excite to follow along, so thanks for coming on. They're so cute. Oh love, love, love love. So I couldn't date a cat person, There's something else I couldn't do. That was one of the first things I was gonna say.
I couldn't do it. I mean either I actually am allergic and I'm not allergic like he is, so I am. I just I don't know how to hold a cat. I grew up with cats. Well, cats don't want to be.
And something bothers me when some of this, oh, it's just like a dog, I'm like, no, no, no, you're just trying to say that because you know, dogs are cooler and because it acts more like a dog, because it but cats to me, Oh, I think it's just because I love love and I want to be loved. Actually, I will say this in where the mafays I'm at now. I think I would do better with a cat because I just don't want because dogs, you know, it's just it's a lot with it, and I don't have time
right Yeah, they're the last thing to get fed. It's just the truth right now, until the kids are older. Then I'll just love dogs again. Second I had a baby, dogs just became a dog, and it's I did not believe that was going to happen to me. My almost eighteen year old Jack Russell is in his sweet hospice years at my house right now, and I thought, there's no way.
He's my baby. He's my person. He thinks he's a person, he's a dog.
Yeah.
Well, but the cat thing, I still I just I thought about it for a second because Jolie really wanted when I was like, all right, that's how hard can this be? But then I'm allergic. My mom's husband is like deathly allergic and so and then I just was like, I just don't like cats.
I could tell you if you've been around a cat in the last forty five days, like I'll stop breathing. Well, don't worry.
So that is really out and said he didn't like cats. I was like, oh, oh yeah, because that would be a oh.
I mean, I just can't. I'm like looking at him like I was trying to zoom in on his eye, like, are you watering? Are you okay? Can I get a pull socks on this guy? Because that's a lot passing against cat people. Again, I just didn't grow up. I don't. I just am allergic to them.
So they there's just kittens who are so cute. My friend Amy had a kitten in their day or other day Jesus. A couple months ago. She came to see me and when I.
Was actually twenty eighteen, who she brought a kit And I'm like, yeah, it's cute. Yeah, but then when it just gets older, I think that's how my parents feel about me. They're precious. Okay, Well, it is fun to hear. The other side of love is blind though, because you know, when you tune in, you don't get there's so many There's only so much airtime they can give these people, and so there's a lot that gets edited out and you want to know exactly.
But let's try and get the Boys next week.
That'd be fun. I think that's fun. We'll see it will stay tuned. It would be maybe Amy and the Boy.
Oh, we should get our therapist and the boys.
Amy and the Boys sounds like a really cool rap group. Oh, I love that idea. Okay, I don't think Alan will go for it. But I don't think but he'll go for Alan. Yeah, well this one. Maybe there's a logger and a couple baby daddies in our future.
Oh yeah, we'll give him a beer. Yeah, okay, all right, see you guys next week.