Wind down with Janet Kramer an I'mheart Radio podcast.
Okay, this is very exciting because live from Wilmington, North Carolina. Sorry, oh, I know, I'm sorry, Catherine, She's like you're a dorc. No, I am very excited to be here in Wilmington because we almost didn't make it to Wilmington. We did not we did, but we did, but we almost did not. So we had a four Well this is interesting. So we had a four to forty five pickup. What time do you think my alarm was set for for forty yes, yeah, you know me so absolutely is.
I'm over here having to get up at four am to get ready, get dressed, drive to your house.
I'm just kidding.
The Lilentton minutes way.
It's fine. My feelings are hurt, gather. No, I'm kidding. Sorry, I'm doing so hard, but I it gives Alan so much anxiety. Oh, I can only imagine. But what do you have to do in the morning if we have this discussion all the time, because I don't understand why he has to said his alarm for thirty minutes if everything is packed in your bag, well, obviously he's not here. But when we do go on vacations, and it has to be an early wake up. He's setting at least.
I mean the minimum is thirty minutes before. But I'm like, what do you have to do? I do thirty minutes. I just I guess I just don't understand that because for me, are you really in the morning that early? Yeah? Yeah? My gross? Is it just my maybe because it's like if you shout I shower the night before, so like you're not. I don't sleeping. Oh see, I shower at night right.
Which is also could be gross. But I don't shower at night. But I mean I have to for my hair, I have to at least get it wet. Okay, So but a lot of people would say it's really grossed down shower at night, so fair?
And then brush your teeth, Yeah, brush youth. This is I have my clothes all laid out, my bag's already packed. I always have the bag. My bag was at the like little mud room area, had my purse. I mean all I had to do was literally brush my teeth and then put my clothes on, which are standing right there, shoes on out the door. Yeah, I mean you do it in five minutes.
I'm my breast.
Thank you.
I was now like, tomorrow, I will not get in the shower.
Damn right.
In the same room.
And so I too will get up five minutes before we have to leave.
I'll be stressed.
It'll be fine. It's so good. But we had a little bit of it. They had to de ice the plane this morning, which we had a decent layover. I go to Cat I said, hey, how's the layover looking. I think she said she You're like, We're fine. It's like fifteen You're like, yeah, how long is it?
And I was like, oh, it's over an hour. And then next thing you know.
We had to get ice from being de iced, and then they didn't have our gate when we did land.
So when we landed in Atlanta, our plane was taking off in fifteen minutes and it was a thirteen minute walk to the next seen to eighteen minutes, eighteen minutes, And it was one of those where even if we sprinted for our lives, we would not have made it so with the trams and the trains and the Atlanta airport, but we so we ended up having a beautiful four hour layover Atlanta air and we made a tool mad to North Carolina.
We Yeah, we did.
We're here. We're here.
I got it all done singing.
And yeah, and so we've got a little concert tonight. Kate Rowele and I are singing and we are about to have her on the show, and then we are going to have Barbara Allan Woods on the show as well. So this is fun that we're able to be here. And you know, Catherine comes because she's a secret, well not anymore not a secret, but she's a One Tree Hill super fan.
I love how this story has over the years.
She's a super fan. Yeah, because I didn't realize how much you loved the show until years after told you I watched the show, right, but like it's a thing. He watched it like with your brother and you actually like had you know, it's cute. No, I love it. It's so cute. So but we're here and this is fun. Catherine, I love you. And I also brought remy cube for us tonight. So if there's time, yeah, let's play. Okay, we'll take a break and then we get katevole gone.
Are we able to go deep? Yes, we're likes to do it, you know, So we're just going to dive right into it. I'm so excited about doing this podcast with you because I feel like we obviously have a great friendship. I follow you on socials, but I am there's so many things that I want to know on even just a deeper level totally of Kate and who Kate is and what makes up Kate and all the things. Because you started young. Yeah, so you started singing at
what what age did you get signed? Started singing? Then when did you get signed?
I started singing like super young, singing in church like stuff like that. Started writing songs when I was like fourteen, and then started playing shows and stuff in high school and I got signed I think I was nineteen eighteen or nineteen. Yeah, So I was like in my college door and brought the message like that somebody wanted to offer me a record deal, and I was like wow, okay, and yeah, picked up and left school and kind of, you know, never looked back.
And then from there you had your first album that came out and that was the big just like, this is Kate Bogel, What was your when was that?
That was?
It was?
The album came out in two thousand and seven, and I hopped in my parents' minivan and started touring and nobody. It was very grassroots because I signed my first record deal with my Space Records, so denitly making myself sound like I've been here for a minute, but you know, it was like this thing and I was like, these guys are really inventive. They're using social media. It was
the first of its kind. And then we re released the album in two thousand and eight after I after my episodes of One Tree Hill started airing, so it was like.
That was like the big resurgeon. Yeah exactly. Yeah. And then from there, are you still on a label or are you doing it independently totally independent? When did that switch happen?
The switch happened after I released two albums with Innerscope. We did Don't Look Away, which was the re release of my first album with MySpace, and then we released A Fine Mess, which was another album I promoted on the show, and then following that one I ended up doing. I think I did like a ATO Records indie label deal after that, and then went completely independent after my third album.
Was that hard for you when you were off the label and what?
Yeah?
Yeah, for sure.
I think it was one of those things that when you're especially growing up and like signing my first deal with MySpace, and like, during that time, the music industry was still like I feel like it was half very old school and half kind of starting to move in the direction like that to where it is now with streaming and with like the democratization of everything content sharing.
So like I grew up consuming music from like a lot is more set and like you know, Vanessa Carlton and like some of these artists who it was a very traditional old school music business model still, all these people who I looked up to, So getting dropped was like the biggest fear for everyone, Like, oh no, I can't you know, and.
Like the careers over I got dropped.
It's sort of like I think because I had nothing else compared to I didn't come from like a family of entertainment business folks. Like you're just like, oh, it's like getting fired, you know, so you think, oh my god, if I'm not with a major label, what does that say about me? Or was that say about my music or my talent? And yeah, so it was definitely a challenge.
It was hard, but I think now in twenty twenty five, it's so different and getting signed to a major label is basically you know, I mean it just everything is a completely different industry, like everything else is. So I think I would have less of a hard time with it now, But in whatever it was twenty eleven, it was like, you know, for a minute there, it definitely felt like the end of the world.
Yeah. Yeah, I remember that same thing when I split with my record label. It became like a am I just like done? Is that it?
Yeah?
And then you go it hurt. It hurts. I remember just being like, this is this, this is not fun and a lot of times people will you know, I kind of slowed down on the music side of things, and I feel like you rammed up. Yeah, And was that for you? I mean, this is like this is your life. You loved obviously being on onun Tree Hill, but yeah, acting, but music was always the number one driving force for you.
Totally, yeah, totally. Music was like, I, you know, signed a deal in college, I made my album. I was touring for a year in my parents' minivan before I went to the audition for One Tree Hill, and I was like under the impression that this part was going to be for one episode and that I was going to get to maybe play a song on the show if I got it, and I was like, oh cool, like I'll go, oh my god, did you.
Watch punre Hill before you audition?
Well, i'd heard of it, of course, I've never seen it. Yeah, so I think that's probably why I was like less intimidated. I was just like, oh, like, screw it, whatever, I'll go and like play my song. And then I got the part, and one episode turned into four seasons yea, And I loved it, like I loved learning the craft of acting and how it's essentially storytelling, which is like all I've ever wanted to do as a songwriter and
as a performer on stage. But that was where my heart was for sure, just being on stage making music in the studio, writing songs. That's always been how I've made sense in my world. So I yeah, I think then, you know, following kind of changing the scenery with the label and stuff, and I think, you know, the other thing is I don't know if you experienced this, but you learn how to sort of like take the power back because somebody at a record label is doing everything
for you. Like there's a person who does your marketing, there's a person who does your social media. There's a person who helps you with pr, there's a person who does you know, like the artwork for your albums. And then when you're all of a sudden the label, you all of a sudden are like, oh no, I have to wear all these hats. And started out as an intimidating thing, but then I realized like, oh, actually this
is really empowering. Like just because there was a person in that role who was supposed to be like in charge of marketing doesn't mean they had the best ideas or you know, it's obviously helpful to have that, but I think that once I reframed it and saw myself as a business owner, it helped me kind of yeah, just lean in and go, you know, go for it and sort of refigure it out as I go, and and keep making music because I couldn't not make music,
you know. But that's so interesting that for you you were kind of like you pulled back and you were like, ah, I'm gonna do more. I mean, you've got so many like incredible, Like I feel like your business with your podcast, like you've been podcasting for.
Almost seven years, six years, Like.
You jumped into this, so I feel like you jumped into a lot of other creative things and continue to like act and stuff. Probably, so it's all do you feel that way like that, it's all kind of like a creative storytelling experience and it's just the medium through it.
Yeah, And I think One Tree Hill was a huge piece of being able to let me do different avenues and have like the fan base you know, is amazing. It's they were always the loudest at every show I ever played. Oh yeah, ever totally, And so that that's such a great piece. I'm curious where for you, what
is your goal now with music? Like you're like, do you want to be back on the radio, do you want to you know, be gram Like, what is your goal that you're striving towards now being an independent artist?
I think my goal that I'm striving towards with music has always been and still is like I just want to write music that helps people feel like they're not the only ones who's been through something, and that is my definition of success. Like if I can write songs that people come up to me and they're like this really helped me through this thing that was super hard, or like this really spoke to me or I thought I was the only one who'd ever been through this,
and your song helped me feel like I wasn't. That is all I've ever wanted to do, so that remains my goal, I think with the music I'm writing and recording, and I'm also really just enjoying more than ever I think, allowing myself to be vulnerable and get weird in ways that I probably didn't when I was younger. I'm such a people pleaser, Like we're both from the Midwest, right, like very much wanted to make sure I like didn't offend anybody and like didn't say anything or like you know,
didn't like curse or whatever. If I was in an audience of young girls, Well I'm a sailor mouth Like I'm from Ohio. We're like always the highest.
On like people who swear our friends listen to our voice notes really low. Yeah, they're in the room with their kids. That's just what it is.
Yeah, It's just like, that is what it is. And I think I've really been wanting to like show all those sides of who I am and how it's human. And so you know, I have this new band project with Mike Grubbs for our show your future ghost. And that's been a blast because I feel like I've been able to be this version of me that I've always been, but that I always was a little bit like afraid to fully embody, maybe because I was afraid that it
wasn't gonna you know, I don't know. I think that I'm just really excited to sort of explore as much creative freedom with music as I can. And yeah, the ultimate goal is always just like write something that helps somebody out, you know.
With because of that, What is the thread in your music that you suffer with the most that you write in your songs to help other people?
I think it's something probably like orbiting my incessant perfectionism, Like I am someone who holds myself to ridiculous, impossible standards and I have I don't know, I don't know.
You know, it's so family. Did your parents want you to be perfect? Did you have to? Where can you try? I get back to? Okay, at this age, I started to my parents wanted this to all be lined up or no.
You know what's so funny is and I've like, you know, unpacked this stuff with the pros enough to sort of be puzzled by it because my parents are true, like they're some of my best friends.
Still.
I grew up in like the most supportive, loving environment. They always encourage my creativity, but it was never about like achievements or you know whatever. It was like they were very very good about emphasizing like my worthiness just because I was me and not and but maybe because of that, I felt like everyone else should, you know,
sort of recognize my worth just for being me. And then you go into the world, especially as a female, and you realize that like everybody else tends to be your worth based on like how hot are you, how good are you at this, how many accolades do you have, how much how many follow whatever it is, you know, and I think maybe then I started being like, oh, well, my family just thinks that I'm worthy because my daughter and then their daughter and maybe the world, you know,
maybe they're the ones that sort of have it right. I better achieve, achieve, achieve, you know.
And that's a hamster wheel of exhaustion.
Oh yeah, it's insane. Yeah, like it's in I mean, the entertainment business is definitely like one of the most challenging places I think to deal with that because so much is measured by like.
Well, yeah, if your song doesn't stream enough, then you're like okay, much on there, and like yeah, and you're constantly trying to chase the perfection and all that, yeah, which is exhausting and then it mentally it just makes you feel like crap.
Yeah, it makes you feel awful. And I think, you know, so that is really the thing that I think somewhere
in there. A lot of my songs are sort of like, you know, in this space where they're centered on an uplifting message, but it's like through the lens of like this is not fluff, Like yeah, it's definitely like and I feel like, especially some of the stuff that I've written more recently, I've allowed myself to be more vulnerable and more open with that and be like, yeah, I struggle so much with you know, expecting myself to be perfect and beating the shit out of myself if I'm not,
you know, And so I hope that that can reach somebody who does that to themselves too, because Yeah.
We talked to earlier how you got married young, and I was asking how your husband was and we're talking about, you know, you're getting married young, what it was what has been the best growth with y'all's marriage, and then where has where is the maybe the struggle and getting married at that age that you've maybe seen.
Yeah, the best. I mean it's so wild. We're gonna be thirteen years this yeah, and like together sixteen but married thirteen, which is crazy. I think he's he's five or so years older than me, and I think that when we met, I already lived a lot of life. So I was like twenty two when we got together and we moved in together, and so it didn't feel like I was getting married super young, probably just because I had been spending the five life on my road, yeah, a tour bus, and you know, I had met a
lot of people. I had dated, you know, several people and kind of knew what I was looking for. And my husband is Brett is just like he's so incredibly supportive in the way where he like I had been in a relationship prior to meeting him, where the guy was like outrageously jealous that I had to like kiss somebody on TV for work and I can.
Like kissing Stephen. I mean it's like kissing your brother. Yeah, Like that's something people always ask like, was he a good kisser, and I'm like, I don't, like I'm.
Not making out like it's not so I always try to explain to people. You're like, oh is my nose smushed weird? Like I was like, oh, okay, like.
You he would ring and be like, what are you having for lunch today? You know, it's it's just And again, he was like a brother for sure, like.
He's such a he's such a friend, and you know, it was just like a great, such a safe, fun hang because it would be like, oh, yeah, we're all going to go out and like get drunk this weekend and like party and like my husband would come out and like yeah, you know, get hammered with all of us like together, and.
It was I wasn't getting hammered, man.
I think I was just like on the tour, the tour, yes, the partying with dudes life, not that you know whatever, not hammered in the way maybe now. Tyler Hilton and I always joked that like when we were working on Wintree Hill, everybody just would like have a few drinks and that was like called partying, Whereas now I feel like it's there's some substances, that's what I'm like, I was never like messing with anything crazy, but it was for sure like throwing back some Jack Daniels with with
the dudes on the weekends. And it was so fun and such a like safe, cool hang and it was so cool to sort of meet somebody who had the confidence to be like, hell, yeah, let me meet your show boyfriend, like I want to. I want to go out and have a drink with you.
Guys. It seems very solid every time. It's just like a solid.
He's the steadiest, most solid. But he's so like down to clown, you know, like he is very much like we're both very spontaneous, Like we decided to pick up and move to Paris for six months a few years ago. Like he is so he's so supportive and so steady, but he's also so open to adventure, and that I think is the part of our marriage that made it easy to sort of commit young.
Yeah.
I think the growth has just been probably for both of us figuring out like what our next act looks like. Because my husband was a professional lacrosse player and you know your husband was a soccer player, right, Yeah, so you guys probably share a lot of this same thing. And I'm the least athletic person ever, like, have never played a coordinated sport. We played football, yeah, oh yeah we did. We played sure.
Little things getting episode definitely.
Yes, we crushed it. I but you know, for him, like as an athlete, you have to stop at a certain age because and for me, I think a lot of what I want to do in my job and how I want to spend my time has shifted as I've gotten older. I don't want to be like gone for half the year in a different hotel every night, on a tour bus and a van, but there's no like limit to that, like I could. And I think
that part has been a struggle. I almost envy that he like his first act was this thing where everybody's like and congratulations, you're thirty five and you're done, you know. And I think for me it's been weird to be like have you felt that way like with singing and just being a oh yeah.
I mean I think it changes when when you have kids. Is that something in y'all?
Sure? We don't know, maybe yeah, maybe. I mean I'm definitely like I don't have like a whole lot more time to I don't know. I mean Obviously, I have friends who are forty five and having kids.
I had a baby at forty so yeah, totally.
I'm thirty eight. So we're definitely talking about it, but I think we're also okay.
I might shift the I'm sure then it would.
I think that would make all the difference. Like how was that for you? Navigating like touring and even being on location like.
I had I had a crib on the bus, you know, So it was one of those. And then once we had our second that's when things started to really shift musically and touring wise, because I'm like, I don't I don't want this to be their life and also is this really what I wanted? I got this from Montree Hill, which I love the music and it's so great, but it wasn't my full on passion.
That wasn't your first love thing that you were like, which is why you know it didn't.
I didn't can but there's times that I'm like, I wish I would have continued on, you know. So it's like it's like a little regrets here and there, but yeah, to wrap up your your pits and you're so your highs and your lows with Luntre Hill, what's a low and then what's a high? Start with a low end on a high.
Okay, the low definitely was just navigating the extremely complex situation that was the predatorial issues with our boss, which I'm laughing about it. It's not funny, right, I'm very much a dark humor person, and that's sort of how I got through all of that. I felt like the hardest part of that. Obviously, everyone you know had like
varying degrees of harassment. That was very, very difficult. But I think for me, the hardest part of that was that I felt like one of the things this person did the most was try to really soew discord, especially
among the women. So I felt like I was constantly being told from the person who hired me for this job, like this girl doesn't like you, like you, she talked about you, she said this, you know, And so I am midwestern, right, introverted, little song writer artists, little nerdy girl, right. I was terrified of like, you know, rocking the boat or like upsetting anyone. So I felt really isolated for less.
So like when you started working on the show, I feel like the first two seasons, because did you come in six or seven seven. Okay, yeah, the first two seasons five and six, I felt extremely isolated. And that was also when I was stating the guy who was like super jealous, so I was like, holy crap, what do I do. I'm just gonna like order room service, and it was like it was kind of tough. I wrote a lot of songs, which was good, but then I think over time, the highlight of the show was
that I finally was like, screw this. I like love all these people I'm working with. If they hate me, they can tell me to my face. And no one ever did, because of course all of that was made up to like puppeteer everyone and somehow control I don't know, some some many needs to go to therapy, you know, whatever this dude was. It was a whole thing. But I think that once I finally was like I'm just gonna reach out and like I'm just gonna go and you know, see if this person wants to go play pool.
And I'm gonna I'll never forget the conversation that I had with Shantell because that was one of the ones that he tried to pit and I'm just like, yeah, what did I do? And She's like what he said this, yeah, and I was like no, and then we became best friends, like she's my closest from working and I'm like it
was just wild. And then, you know, I remember showing I was we were shopping at that j Cree little mall, and I remember showing Sophia text message that I got from him, and he was clearly flirting, and I'm like, what do I say back to this, because it's like he's the creator of the show. I doesn't want to lose my job. So I just went haha, Like she was like just laugh back. So I was like, okay, hahha, you know, and thinking back, you know, obviously there's things
that would do differently. And at the same time, I was, what twenties grateful to have a series regular show. It's a really un fortunate situation. You put a lot of the girls in.
Yeah, it was definitely like very brutal, But I think the thing that was the highlight of the show obviously was amazing to share my music and to sort of like just connecting with the fans. Like you said, this fan base is like just the best in the world, Like it is incredible to feel that support and I feel really lucky to have been in front of this group, you know, like that was just so cool that it
connected and that they connected with my songs. But like the people, like I love the friendships I made from the show, and it really was one of those things where I had to get uncomfortable and be like, okay, like I'm afraid I'm feeling vulnerable. I don't want to like I don't want to bug anyone, you know. That was always my thing was I was like, I don't know if I'm bugging them. And then it was like the second I started actually getting to know everybody, especially
the women on the show and stuff too. The guys, you know, I think there was less intimidation because it was like, you know, our boss was never like the guys hate you. You know, it was always the girls.
I still don't think one girl likes me on the show, so I always just like try to stay like a way I'm.
Like totally made up though.
Yeah, And that's the thing.
I mean, I'm just like I've gotten to the point as you get older, you're just like.
Do like if I did something to like bump out, like I actually might you know, I think I'm gonna slide into her, damn and just be like yeah, just be like tell me yeah. And we don't have to be friends. That's the thing I've realized now in this stage, we don't all have to be we don't want to make BFFs. Yeah, just you know, there doesn't need to be any like awkwardness.
Yeah. So that the best part about this experience was the people, Like I I truly like I was saying it, you know at the meet and greet earlier with you guys, but I my face hurts from laughing after doing these events because hanging out like backstage in the green room with everybody is so just It's such a gift and you know, wild wild ride that we all were on, but it's like really special to have done it together.
You know. I love that, Kate, you are amazing. I love you so much. Go saying they're waiting for you, so go sing your little hard and I'm just so excited for you and I love you very much.
Thank you, Jim.
And I never hated you.
I never hated you either.
I've always loved you and I was never hated your music when I came onto the show.
So no, the same girl, same thank you