Listen to Each Other

being in the NFL for ten years. UM, African American man married to a Caucasian woman with three mixed children. And and my buddy Chris Spencer is joining the show for it with us, and we're going to kind of talk about some of the same similar things and kind

of here a different perspective, UM from his world. And I think what we learned to was just to really listen, UM, and we learned a lot from I learned a lot from just re listening to that episode and it made me real uncomfortable again and I wish I would have not interjected at times and it just listened, UM. And so I think we learned a lot um about that episode.

And you know, I've I've received the feedback and the questions, and you know, I I just we wanted to continue the conversation and we just also want to say thank you for finishing the entire episode. And I think it's more about, you know, we all kind of realized maybe how things could have been said differently, but how we acknowledge and look in the mirror and we own our thing.

I think that was what was so beautiful about it. Yeah, And to your point, it's in the more you know, listening back to that episode and the more I've kind of listened to people this past week talking on different news platforms. Is this stuff isn't a debate. It is about listening to one another, you know, and people are going to have different opinions or different perspectives, but it's not a writer or wrong you know. There there isn't a debate around it. And like I, like you said,

you can't. So with that being said, we're gonna introduce my good buddy, Chris Spencer Spence. Welcome to the show, buddy, Hey Spence, Hey guys, thanks for having me and I love listening to you guys, and you guys done such a good job together here and um, very honored that you guys reached out to me to join you guys.

And you know, this has been a very emotional week and in a lot of ups and downs with you know, even my emotions, particularly growing up in Mississippi, and you know, having a lot of these things kind of come back to the forefront. So so I'm excited to kind of jump in and have a conversation with you guys about it. Absolutely, man, we appreciate it. And do you, honey, do you want

to start with that one question? Yeah? I had someone reach out to me and and I I felt really bad when I read it because I I felt, um, so she was an African American who um one of my followers, and she said that me us asking Mickey questions was very disrespectful and that it's not Mickey's job or any other African American to teach white people about their life or to teach them what they've to teach

us what they've been through. And I felt awful. I started crying and I response, I was like, I'm so sorry, Like that was not our intention and is so do do you take offense for us when we ask you know about your experience about your experiences and what we can do and you know, um, the history. I guess for me, it's it's more around just the awareness and and and again, like she said, it's not my job

to teach everyone. Um, but if there's things that come up that there's questions around, you know, it's also you know, my job to share my experience. And uh, because as I've been fortunate to you know, grow up in small area of Mississippi, rural area and see a lot and but also fortunate to live outside of that bubble into a more fluent bubble. And and so I get to see that a lot of people are very unaware of

other people's feelings. And um, if you don't side with their view of things, then um, you're not you're not fitting in their mode. And so so I think it's when I hear things, I think it's for me, it's more of um, hey, guys, look, you may think that these things doesn't happen because you never experienced it. But

I've experienced it my whole life. And you know, and again, I have a wife who's called Cajun, and so even her, like we're driving down the road and we see I see a lot more things than she is used to seeing from Confederate flags and things like that that she's never had to pay attention to. But I have to pay attention to those things, and so um so it's not our job to two explain, but it is our

job to have conversations. And because um, there's a lot of good people in the world like you, guys that um is trying to do the right things and want to do the right things, but just need someone to help open their eyes to experience that they never experienced. Because if I never lived in influent world, there's things that I would have never known, you know, And so um so you kind of have to have from a

black person. You kind of have to be able to um understand that there's a lot of people that is just just not aware of of it and and heaven doesn't have the right know how to have the right conversation to start that conversation around racing things like that and how they can be more UM effective and in

the change. So is that difficult? And I'm saying this based off just my experience with our interview this past week, where being I was guilty of asking a question and responding in a way that came across as ignorant, naive, and arrogant because I haven't experienced it, because I just questioned in my logic as a white male in this world through my life experiences, logically didn't really make sense

to me. So is that difficult being, you know, an African American When you know someone who's Caucasia or another race says something purely out of innocence because they just don't know better, is it really difficult, like not to

take that personally? Yeah, I mean, I tell you I've had to learn how to not take everything personally because, um, you know, I've I grew up in Mississippi and went to o miss Um, you know, playing in NFL and being a star athlete, you you get a pass per se like, um, you're not really seen as black, and that I think that's one of the most difficult things for me, is that you're not really seeing as black.

So people say things around you that they think that you're okay with because they see you as one of them. And so, um, I've had to learn how to remove myself from certain conversations because you know, being a six four, you know, three d pound black man, you know, if you you show some type of anger, then all of a sudden you're known as that guy has been an

angry guy. And so so I've had to kind of train myself of like understanding where conversations are gonna start to go where it will make me feel uncomfortable, and remove myself before it gets there, because um it, you're you're fighting up your battle trying to explain something to someone who's never experienced certain things. And and again I'm never asking anyone to agree, but also I want people to to hear another side and say, Okay, this is real. The other side of is real, and it's not just

about your point of view. You know. It's crazy just in this past week, like how much introspection just myself I've been able to do, to think about situations and without even again purposely being unempathetic, I have been because again I haven't had to look through the filter or live you know the way that you have, Chris or other African Americans. And it's it is, it's just you don't know what you don't know until unfortunately, until something like this happens, where I really hope just in my

own eyes, who there? I mean, you know me we've been friends a long time. Now. There's not an ounce of racism in me right or anything, but the fact that even someone like me is starting to see it in a different light because of this stuff. Like, I really hope this isn't all for nothing, you know what I mean? Like I agree, I think, um, you know, you starting to see more, um more people are just coming off the sideline and not looking at it as it's not happening in our community, so we're going to

turn a blind eye to it. You see more of flowing white people actually step it up and and wanting to learn. So I think right now black people will feel uncomfortable with the questions because, um, there are more people now who are willing to have a conversation and not just sweeping on the road because you know, the things that are happening right now are just they're just blatant and it's right there in front of you, so

you can't walk over to step over anymore. And so um, so I think right now, you know, it is a challenge for black people to be a little bit more understand. You know, I hate to stay understanding because we've missed understanding for a really long time. But there's gonna be more questions that's asked because um, there are people who again, when you don't know, you don't know. And so the only way to know is to ask a question in And my granddad told me, I've taught me a long

time ago. Um, being in Mississippi, closed mouth don't get fair. So you've gotta be okay with people asking certain questions. And but the question has to be has to be a question that you're genuine wanted to understand and hearing that, hearing what the response is and and having some empathy. You know, I think in our country right now, with lack of empathy of other people's situations and um, and not not everyone is is afforded the same opportunities, you know.

And it's for for me. If I wasn't a you know, a stud athlete, again, I don't know what my life would have turned out to be. And you know, so I've tried to use my platform in the way that um, it shines a light on like you know, again, we things that you don't ever have to think about, how you're you're constant trying to make everyone around you feel comfortable.

That's not your race, you know, And and because I married a Caucasian woman, I have to wear both sides of it, where I have to make people around me comfortable because they don't know if they can trust me or not in my own race. And so so I've I've had the ability to see it through a lot of different lands, and so so I have a different perspective,

a little bit of different perspective on it. And and I've been able to, you know, have conversation with friends over the last several days that you know, it's exhausting, but you know, I'm hoping the good comes out of it is that people are starting to realize that these things happen, and it it doesn't matter what environment you in. And you know, just being pulled over your because you're driving a nice car, um and household about do you own this car? It's hard. Oh yeah, It's happened to

me tons of times. And you know, and I remember just I was telling someone story the other day about going to a cigar bar and pulled up in my car and and the older gentleman gets out of the car and he says to me, Hey, is that your car? And I was like, yeah, that's my car. He's like, well, let me guess you must be a musician. I was like no, it's like, um, you must be, um an athlete. I was like no, you know, because again I don't want to tell people what I do. And he was like, oh,

I guess you must be a drug dealer. And he walked up and I was just like, I was like wow, okay. So so it's you know, it's a lot of things that that that I have to just walk away from because again, um, if I react, society is already deem me as um the guy who is because of my skin tone, in my size is the guy that's is going to be the troublemaker. So I have to again remove myself. So I get in my car and leave it because I know what would happen if the cops

call um. So um, and even with this pandemic that's going on right now, Um, I'm torn even wearing a mask and a grocery store a gas astion tonight because um, my size again and walking in it's you know, I don't want someone to think that I'm there to rob them. And so, um, just a lot that you have to think about as a as a black person in this country.

And uh, continue to move forward. And again, not all cops are bad, not all white people are racist, but there's just a lot of just people just unaware of the things that we have to endure and teach our kids and and and and living in an environment and bubbles that you know, you you you face some of those things that like that I'm that I just came and that's awful, Like not being able having I just that's awful, not being able to feel like you can wear a mask and go into a store like you'll

never like we'll never have to feel that, And that's just I'm I'm sorry, and I I remember when I first met you, Spence, You're you're hilarious. You know you're you're funny. But one of the first things you said to me is you said, I'm black Santa. You know

you're wearing a Santa outfit. And I feel like, you know, they're I've been times where when we have hung out, it's like, you know, I'm I'm the only black friend, and it's almost like the humor are you just are you using the humor to almost make is that what you're trying to do to make other people comfortable too?

Even though we were already comfortable with. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely, because again, you know, you spend so much of your life making everybody help and everyone feel comfortable that you're not a threat, um that it just it bleeds over

into everything in your life, everything you do. And you know, even to the fact that I laugh at myself all the time every time I go and and uh, I get dressed and I'm going to work or if I'm you know, going out with friends or something like that, I go and grab my loafers because I know that when you know, a six four guy walks in the building the first day and they look at it's like,

oh man, this guy is scary looking. And then but they looked at him, you know, they see me wearing a paral loafers, They're like, okay, he's he should be all right, he's you know, like so it's just it's just a little things like that that you know, it's um that I've kind of done my you know, a lot of my life because again, I had a decision to make. Do I want to continue to live here in Mississippi and struggle like everyone else in my life, or do I want to put my head down and

work and and and put my best foot forward. So I can't have a good opportunity in life because I knew one day I have kids and I want to make sure that they had the best. And and my mom, she had five kids, and she worked her butt off and and and and doing a lot there and and you know, but she's she's always you know, Black people just so resilient when it comes to um these type of things that happened in our country right now. Is

that forgiveness, forgiveness, forgiveness, you know. And you know, even growing up without a dad in the home, you know, my mom she was the mom and dad, and she was always loving on us as like, don't ever hold a grudge against anyone, don't hold a grudge against your your father, don't hold a brother gets the person that looks at you because you look different, and um, just find a way to pray for them and love on them.

And so so I've kind of attacked my life that way and um, and it doesn't mean that that I have run into certain troubles. I mean, you can imagine married to a a Canadian who's blonde, that you get pulled over by the cops. The first thing in your mind is like, oh my gosh, what do I do here? And and the cops is asking her she okay, you know, and it's like, well all right, So, UM, so we've you know, I've brought some things on myself, but also I've you know, I've learned a lot and and and

but also I just have a heart for people. And I think now is the time that we all lend our voice to to see a change and do it in a genuine way and not just have people, um, just continue to justify what's continued to happen right now in our country. Yeah, let me ask you this, Chris. You have three beautiful kids, beautiful daughter in two and two boys. Have you, guys had conversations with them? Have they experienced anything thus far? And I guess what are

you telling them now with all of this going on? Well, I mean, unfortunately, you know, society to force you to have those conversations very early with your kids about um uh, the position that we're in as mixed kids and growing up in a you know, a predominant white area. Um. Society to force you to have those conversations what you

can and can't do? Um? Just just um, not even six months ago when when school was going on, my ten year old UM were sitting in the cafeteria with his fourth grade class, and the kid said to him, Um, if I was the president, I bring back slavery, and you would be my first pick. And so um, because of what I have taught, what we've taught, I taught our kid and and my son, he's he has high functional autism, and when he's felt wrong, he is very reactive.

And because of the lessons and things that we've taught that people are gonna look at him different, They're gonna say things. Um, he politely got up and went and talked to his teacher and told his teaching what happened. And and so we are constantly having a conversation with him. He's he's going to be a big kid again. My wife was an All American volleyball player, and he is

a very special athlete. And so we're constantly researching and thinking about what's going to happen to him in the next you know, six years, when he starts driving and he he's not a it that again, we're trying to give him all the two so he can thrive in this world. But right now he's not a kid that, um, you could approach that he when he feels he hasn't

done anything wrong, he will defend himself. He will question, he will ask, and so, um, it's one of our biggest fears right now in our lives are and even to the fact that, hey, Jackson, you can't wear a hoodie when you walk into places, you can't go jogging down the street with a hoodie. And it's he's like, well, why, well this kid can do that. Why can't I do that?

You know? And so so we've had to have a lot of tough conversations with him, and uh and our two youngest you know, starting to have those conversations with those guys as well, because um, you know, it's it's just things you have to do, as is your responsibility to keep your kids safe, and the things that we have to do right now, I mean particularly um, in the time we're in, but you know, just in general, as a black person in America, you have to have

these conversations with your kids because, um, you don't want them to be in a position where, um, they're not giving themselves the best chance. And again, it still doesn't mean you may come out on the other end of it. But it's just you're trying to give yourself the best opportunity to to avoid a tragic situation. And so, um so we've experienced some things with our kids. You know, my daughter, she you know, has very big hair, and the kids, you know, they don't want to play with

her because of her hair and her skin tone. And so so you know, and and and our kids they're they're very resilient, but at the same time you can tell they really you know, destroys them, hurt them, you know, to their core. And so we we walk this delicate balance of teaching our kids what they can and can't do, but also that they don't We don't want them hating people either. We don't want them growing up to hate

white people and things like that. And so um so we we we we do a lot of conversation, do a lot of reading, and talk to a lot of therapists and things like that, because, um, those things are traumatizing, you know, and you don't think about it. And my son he brought it up to me, um, you know, two weeks ago, and I thought he had kind of

forgot about it, you know. And so those things stick around for a really long time with you and it it goes you know, it'd be something that he remember the rest of his life and so um So for us as parents, we just keep, you know, just keep reiterating and having these conversations with our kids that you know, you know, we don't see see color love, we don't

love everyone. But also, because you have the skin tone, here are things, here's a list of things that you have to be aware of, the things that you can't do. And you can't wait until we're sixteen and start having that conversation. So I think these are the kind of conversations where it's, like we said, there's no debate, it's just listening and understanding someone else's perspective on a daily basis.

Because when you think about it, it's like, okay, hopefully as a whole, as a as a society, as a as a species, we can start to be more empathetic towards one another period about everything, like you're saying earlier, Spence, and then unfortunately there's still gonna be because all it takes is that one person, that one police officer, that one person that does these acts to set things off again.

And you know, I saw this quote from Chris Rock just recently about all this where he's bad apple is like, you know, bad apples. He's like, there should be no bad apples, and like law enforcement anything like that. He's like a pilot, there's not a bad apple. As a pilot. You can't just be like, all right, here's a bad

apple the plane craft, like, you can't excuse that. So I just really appreciated his his somewhat comedic kind of you know, outlook on that, because that's true, like that, there's there should be a zero tolerance behind all that. And I'm just what I'm my fear is is even with society hopefully gaining better understanding, there's unfortunately there's still going to be those assholes that just set us back again,

set society back. It's amazing how one person with one terrible act can do this to a country, one the greatest, arguably the greatest country in the world, and all it takes is one thing, and it just goes to show how much work we also have to do as human beings. Well, I mean, the thing about it is is that it's not just been that one bad, one bad person, that

one bad apple. There's been a lot of bad apples over years, and it's just now because we've you know, um sell phones and body cam and things like that. You know, you're starting to see these things happen on a daily basis. And so, UM, I think, again, I don't have all the answers. I don't know how we solve this problem because it's a it's a very complex,

um issue. But I think, you know, starting with working within our community with cops, actually building relationship with people within the communities and humanizing these people, humanizing the the the kids that are playing in the park that's that's not their color. Because again, you you you get thrust

it into as a cop. You go to school for six months and there's no training around mental well being, and um, there's a lot of people who have undiagnosed issues that you don't know about, and so you have to ingratiate yourself in these in these communities in a way that you get to know them for who they are.

And then I think that as we start to do this in smaller communities and growing into the bigger cities and getting to know people, UM, I think those are some of the steps that you know, I think we should start looking at you to really make a change in and the everybody has to be involved. It can't just be a city hall for you know, just all

the black people voicing their concerns about it. Put you know, the white community, the Asian community, all our communities need to just come together and be a part of this change because everyone around is going to help police it. Because now if a cop knows that that it's just if it's not just one community that's policing them, it's everybody, then they're going to make better decisions and they're gonna

want to do do better. And so, um, again it's a very complicated situation, and I think that uh, we have to start within our communities and and and bringing human reality to uh to the people that we're seeing on TV right now, and um, making it feel that making these heaving these guys understand that there is a human life just like yours and like actually we are people, are not You're not just a robot. You're not a robot.

We're not robots. And so I had another comment that came in that you know, I just wanted to ask your opinion. Um, you know, my last episode year, I don't have a racist bone in my body. And then you know, you said it again today and they said everyone is racist. Everyone has a part of them that has you know, whether they can still have the purist of intentions, But do you believe that every person? Because

I was. I was talking to my therapist about that, and you know, and then she had told me that, you know, she's married to a black man, she's got biracial kids, and you know that her husband also played in the NFL for for ten years, and you know, he he was telling her that he experienced racism in his own race, where they would tell him that he wasn't black enough, or that he wasn't you know, he was because he was dating a white girl and he

didn't wasn't sleeping around with a bunch of people. And and then you know, then we started talking about, okay, well, you know, is this person's com and then she asked me the question, and so we just started this debate and I just I'm just curious what your outlook and when people say that, well, I think it's um from from from me, you say, racist is more of a hate, you know, because of your skin tone? Now, is there some biggot and things and people I think everybody carries, um,

some biggert because they don't understand someone else's race. Um. And that's what she said, opinions. She said, people can have opinions, doesn't make them right. Yeah, right. So that's kind of how I feel about it. And I think that because you you don't have the ability to experience someone else's you know, hardship, that you can form an opinion, that it can come across as racist or come across as been a biggert. Um you know, but it it

goes across all race lines. Like I said earlier, you know, I had both sides of it, you know, marrying a Caucasian woman and not being you know, black enough, and you know, being called oreo by my own you know, my own race, and um, you know, but again it's you. You as a as a person, know who you are,

and you stand for what is right, is right? And if I don't know, I would ask and I would talk and have a conversation if and you know, I remember back and um, um, when I was at Old miss and sitting down with a group of my friends and having a female who just who just just did

know if she can approach me or not? And um, and over several times in the you know, in this group, his friend group, she found an approached me and and she she told me that, you know, I see everyone sitting around hanging out with you, laughing and joking, so you must be a good person. But I was taught something different. I taught all black people, Um, it's not good. I mean all of you guys. And so she gained a different perspective in life that that has changed and

shaped to me. And to this day we're still friends. And and it's been you know, I think a lot of it is taught within your community, but a lot of it in the black community has been safety. It's been around safety. You know, Like my mom was scared for my life when the first time I was going to meet my wife's family. She didn't know them, she didn't know, you know what, respect because she grew up in Mississippi where um, you just didn't do that. And so um, so from our side, it's more of that,

just that's safety concerned about you. So some of them may come across, as you know, they don't like you, but it's it's it's more of safety for you. But then also there's enough good people here that you didn't have to go this way and so UM, so it's it's it's it's challenging. It's been challenging, but it's um. Also you you you learn a lot when when you're outside of your conference zone. Man, I love you Spence every time I see you like that one time I

saw you in church. I mean I see you in church all time, but you just you know someone's heart. You have an amazing heart. Gave me the best hug one time he could tell I was down, gave me the biggest freaking Spence hug. And you just like I just I love you, I love your family. I'm sorry that. Um, I'm just I'm sorry that you've you've had to experience these things and UM yeah it's hard to I don't

know the words, but I am sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I just appreciate you guys and the work you guys are doing that actually getting a position to be uncomfortable, be out of your get out of your comfort rown and have these conversations and um to be told that what you said was UM, dismissive or whatever it may be, and then you reflecting on it to coming back and and helping other people understand how not to make those

same mistakes. And you know, and and with the listeners that you guys have, I think hopefully hopefully everyone is listening and taking notes and hopefully that they're learning something that I understand how to have a conversation the right way,

because the conversation needs to be had. It can't be swept on a rug anymore, and it needs to it needs to be done in a way where we can communicate understand each other's side, because again there's another side of it, and that we also have to be able to hear the other side of it. It's like, look, I didn't grow up around black people, so I don't know how to act around black people, you know, so you have to be able to hear that side as well, and without it getting inflammatory and so um. So we

all have to come together. And I know it's a lot to ask for us as black people to to put our anger aside and have these conversations. Um but again, right now, anger, the anger and the the deluding and all the things that are happening right now in our

country is not going to solve the problem. It's it's the voices that are people who are gonna be genuine to step up to the plate and and help with this issue, because it's gonna take a lot of people to to gain traction and gain ground and solving this issue so well spends. We appreciate you taking time out of your day. Brother. You know, we love you. We love you Catherine and you and your three kids, and we just hope that you know, people could continue to

educate themselves and learn from from your words today. And that's why I wanted we wanted to have you on here because we knew, we know your heart, we know you as a person, and we really hope people are

able to take something from this, and we know they will. Well. Hey, I love you guys and your family, and I'm very thankful for you guys to have me on a day and um, you know, like I told Mike earlier, it's like it's been an emotional week man, and and you know, I'm not the most eloquent writer, but you know, I just wanted to lend my voice to to what's going on and um, and know that I'm praying hard that you know, we find our way out of this this um, this this mess we're in right now. So I love

you guys. You'll have one for day and thanks for having me on. Thanks appreciate your words. All right, guys, he's the he's the best, and you know, he was the perfect one to have on because, like we said, we we know him so well. We know he's able to articulate things and um from a great, you know,

frame of mind. And it's just I really do feel like my eyes are opening up more, my heart's opening up more, and just comparing like sitting with him this interview compared to last week is just like I felt like I was assuming things, you know, again, because of my own experience. I was stuck in my own experience, so I was like assuming. But that's what it is. It's like we can't assume. It's just like sitting down with somebody else and being like, tell me about your

life experience each other, tell each other about your life experience. Well, it's almost like when Mickey asked you if you wanted to be She's like, if you had the choice, would you be a black man? And to hear like Spencer say the things that he has to, like he can't. He feels fearful of his life to wear a mask because the Corona it's like which I never even would have thought about exactly. But it's not saying that from

a bad place. Yeah, it's just that's it's like you didn't you would never have thought about that, But but we didn't know that that would that that's even a thing like how like why would because because we're not we don't see that way, like we don't see like, well, of course Spencer can wear a thing over something like, we wouldn't assume, oh, because people are gonna think he's breaking in. That's not our first, second, third, no, because we don't look through that lens. We don't look through

that that racist lens. But but it's different when you put yourself in that person's shoes, other than just being like no, why would we know Spencer? Why did anyone think that? And now because of the interview last week, like we're able to see it differently and even you know, I told you in bad the other day, I felt awful. Um. You know, I had a conversation with um, one of my close stars, Percy, when I was filming Christmas and

um Mississippi no losing oh yeah, Mississippi. And it was Christmas, you know, and Um, and we were having a conversation and I didn't listen to him. I really didn't, and I you know, I was debating things. And I looked back on that conversation in bed after the interview with Mickey and I was like, oh my god, I need to apologize to him. And I did, and you know, he responded. I was like, I'm sorry. I didn't listen. I was trying to debate a situation and that was

not up for debate. I should have listened to your experiences and listen to why you kneel, why you do these things, and not debate something. And I mean, I show it to you. And I was crying. I was, I was so upset, and he goes, it's beautiful that because of what's going on in the world, you're able to remember our conversation and and and have that introspection and it's just like, like you said, it's just been so eye opening. No, I mean to your point again,

it's about again, it's not a debate. It's about just listening and not forcing your own opinions onto somebody else, which I was watching, you know, ESPN this morning. Drew Brees, one of the highest most character guys like in the NFL. In an interview, he had stated that he would never

not stand for the national anthem. Where he kind of went overboard with his words was he didn't believe anybody should not stand for the national anthem because he feels that it disrespects the flag, which we which we have agreed upon. But now I'm like Neil, but now I my thing is I'm actually seeing it less disrespect as disrespectful for the flag, which is was my hardest thing because you know, I have such a strong support in my heart for the military. When I look at the flag,

that's what it represents for me. And what they're saying is Drew is fine with what he said, but it's just you can't put that down everybody. You can't make that everyone's opinion that I think everybody should stand. Now it's like, okay, my person belief, I'm I'm gonna stand. I would always stand, But if someone next to me doesn't want to, cool and you're not gonna now look down on that as disrespectful towards the flag. Now it's

it's like again all so eye opening. It is, it really really is, and this all is just crazy, and I just I really hope that, for whatever it's worth, with these last two episodes, that our listeners can just are more willing to have a conversation, to talk to somebody else that they're close to in their life that may be a different race, a different religion, different in any way, and just say, tell me about your life.

It's interesting because when I was talking to this with my therapist, her son came home crying one day, and her thirteen year old son, and you know, she's like, what's wrong? And she said, he said, so and so won't hang out with me because her parents said my skin color is too dark. And you know, she's like, it took every part in her to not get, you know, upset, because she was trying to control you know, her emotions and to make it more of a learning moment for her.

And she said, do you remember that kid that everyone was making fun of that had disabilities at the lunch table because no one was sitting with that person and you looked, everyone looked at that kid with disability is different. How does that How do you think that makes them

feel like maybe you can empathize with that person. Just because they look different doesn't mean that they don't have a story and pain and that you know, it's it's it's kind of the she was trying to say, Like, it's kind of the same thing where it's like, just because we look different, like doesn't mean that we should be rude to other people or be mean or you know, we should we should be nice to everyone and talk to everybody and and include people no matter, you know,

just like expense his son because he's autistic. It's just talk to them. Hey, sit next to that person at

the lunch table. You know that you and I to kind of shift into it in to end this on like a lighter note, is you and I have talked about, you know, when when Joelie and Chase get older, the one thing that that one of the biggest things they can do to piss to genuinely piss us off, is if they're getting troubled for bullying or doing something like that, that we just have no zero tolerance for that kind of stuff because you and I have never been those people.

You know, We've always been welcoming to all kinds, you know, ever since we're both kids. But that's just and that's just another level of how sad this is that parents like Spence and his wife Katherine have to have these conversations with their kids at such a young young age, Like Spence said, that society forces you to have to have them at a young age and that just sucks. Well, guys, that's our show for today. Um, see you next Monday.