Life in a Year

Wind Down with Janley Kramer and Michael Coffman an I'm her radio podcast.

You know, I'm never the culprit of misplacing things, really not as often as you.

But I was just trying to find my car keys that you misplaced about in the start of quarantine. Still can't find those bad suckers.

I think that was actually like a year ago.

No, it was when we got the chickens. It was the day of the chickens when my keys went missing, and thank you, but you have it's like you you say to me all the time, that's been my what's that thing called? Like?

Wh're my kicker? Was that?

No?

What's it called?

Like?

Where I'm like my trump card? Because he's always like you don't ever, which is funny because I always put things back in its place.

But I have a tendency to be like, oh.

Where's my phone or where's like this when it comes to like my personal things. But every time you say that, I'm like, I don't want to hear it. I was like, you lost my keys.

No matter what it is, you always bring that up. There's nothing I can do about it.

But why were you saying that?

Oh?

Because I was frantically looking for my phone just now, and I thought I lost my mind. I didn't even remember the last place I had it.

And the best part about that, though, is he was looking here for his phone, getting so for ten minutes flustered. It was like thirty and thirty and he's like getting all like worked up, and I'm like, okay, well, let's just retrace your steps, like let's figure this out. And he's just getting more flustered and flustered. And I was like, I am to go to the bathroom and then I'll come look for it the first place I look.

Of course it was there.

It was there. I was like, I always got to check the couch. That's like, I think I checked.

All the couch except for that one.

Well, I hope all of y'all had a great Christmas, however it was spent. I'm so excited for the new year. I can't wait.

I have a fear though, around the new Year that everyone, like people already put a lot of weight in like new Year, knew me, it's new year, like whatever. This year especially, I feel like people are gonna put so many eggs in that basket.

Which is great, they should. I'm gonna do that.

I'm like, what can I do to you know, feel my best, look the best, be healthiest, Like yeah, but.

You'll fall through and do it. But I'm saying people might have twenty twenty one such high expectations because they're like, well, it's just naturally gonna be better because it can't get worse than this year, and who knows it might.

I mean, I think, you know, I think the expectation, like you said, if twenty twenty one is really high, but I think it's really bad to set expectations just in general, Yeah, because you're gonna get let down.

And there's a difference between setting expectations and setting goals because there's people there's people that are like, I don't set goals because then that way I won't be let down.

It's like e doesn't really work like that. But okay, beats theorem.

But I mean I do think, I mean, hopefully it's a better year. But the same time, I still kind of where as you think that I'm not half full in this area of my life is where I'm like, no, it was a yeah, I was troubling and there was hard times, but I also I'm like, Okay, what's what

Look at that, Mama jan is dropping knowledge on inspiration on everybody.

I'm not I'm just saying girl, but like, I'm just excited for those opportunities. And you know, it's not Christmas anymore because we're on the brink of another celebration.

You know, I have a hard time calling it a celebration. And my therapist even got on me, got on me for this last week because it'll be a year of sobriety for me on New Year's Eve and so just my my shame and stuff wants to just not shed let light on it at all and just treat it like another day because it is. And I don't know, man, it's just hard because I think I have a lot of shame around it with you know, I wish this was the four year.

You know what I mean?

And it's like thinking back on the you know, bumps and major obstacles that we faced the last four years. It's just you know, four or five years. It's it's just hard to to not look back. And I'm sure you're the same way.

Yeah, I know.

I talked about with my therapists last week in it was one of those things where it's like, you know, I was like, how do I balance because I'm like, I'm angry, but I'm also wanting to be supportive. I was like, how can I balance being supportive and being really triggered and really hurt and let down.

Without you know. So it's like I'm like, how do I how do you balance that?

Because I'm like, this is his third or second, third or second birthday. I've thrown you where it's like I'm like, I don't want to bake a cake anymore and now I'm angry, like how many more one year cakes am I.

Going to make? You know?

And I don't want anything, like I don't.

So I think that's like you know, but I'm like, but I want to be supportive. So I'm like, how do you like balance that that walk with like wanting to be a supportive spouse, but also being like, well, how many more times are we going to throw this party?

Right?

You know, We're going to have a good friend of yours, Brian Davis, who is openly a sex addict.

As well, sex and love addict, sex and.

Love addict slaw, and we'll have her on and we'll kind of talk about some of this. You know, she's been sober what eleven years?

Yeah, she just celebrated her eleven year sobriety on December sixth, and Brandon I did a movie together.

We met on prom night and the movie prom night.

Sorry, the movie prom night. And yeah, we we just we've stayed in touch. But it's it's funny just to like tea up Brian a little bit when I was doing Dancing with the Stars. And by the way, she's gone on to you know, be on TV shows like six and True Blood, True Blood jar Head opposite Jake Jill and Hollock. She's, you know, she's an amazing actress and you know she's you know, she's she's really really good.

She's gonna be on Lucifer this next season too.

Yep.

And then so we kind of lost touch a little bit when I was doing the country stuff, but we always you know, said hello, and you know, Facebook or whatever it was then MySpace, I don't know. And when I was doing Dancing with the Stars and then all of the stuff came about about your sex addiction, she reached out to me and was like, hey, you know,

Sponsor.

Like she was the one I called when I found out about you hiding like the fake accounts last year and the deleting of the you know, your messages with the woman so we're the lady or whatever, and so you know, I called her. So she's kind of always the person that I've called in those moments and when I'm like, you know, about ready to jump from a bridge to to be like what do I do and

Into this.

Again.

I think it's it's uncomfortable for me as well, because I don't want to really shed a light on it. I just want it. It's just another day. It's just it is, and it isn't you know. And for me with my my personality of nothing ever being good enough, like things that I do not being good enough, I'm just like, all right, what's it like I might feel the same way in ten years. Okay, it's ten years whatever, keep going right.

But you still should celebrate like one year is great, Like you've stayed to the our knowledge, You've stayed straight, you know, for one year, and.

That's a big accomplishment.

Now if you get two years, you will never like you can be like, hey, I've never hit two years before, Like that's great, you know, Yeah, I mean it should be encouragement. You should celebrate it.

It is.

I'm encouraged that this is a legitimate year. That's nice, you know what I mean. Like, so it does feel different, but it's you know again, it's it's just still uncomfortable. There are a lot of stuff, you know, for both of us.

So all right, well let's take a quick break and then we'll get Brian on.

All right, so super excited because we have Brion with us on wind down yours.

Are you still in La right now?

Yes?

I am.

I'm an And are you going to stay in La or are you thinking about going back to.

I don't know, girl, I don't know what we're doing at this point.

I don't think anybody does.

You know, we're just literally honkered in our house and not going anywhere. We're getting everything delivered. It's crazy how scary it is right.

Now in La.

Well, I can't even imagine. But on the flip side, congratulations, you just celebrated eleven years of sobriety in December.

So yes, I even't brought my chip.

Look I got it.

It was like, oh I should.

Be pavvy middle Wow. Yeah, that's awesome. Good for you, Brian, thank you very much.

You know, we're just talking about, you know, sobriety and stuff because I know Jan shared with you it to be a year for me this week, and I guess my question to you to start off is I'm still not comfortable with it, like you know what I mean. It's you know, I think even more so because it's a year and this is the second or third time that we've quote unquote celebrated a year. And I was telling you, I was like, this is my first legitimate year,

You know, yeah, I get it.

I mean, nobody walks into those rooms thinking, Yay, I get to be a part of this group of like sex addicts or sex and love addicts. And the problem is it's such a great area and it's so hard to get sobriety in the program that there's people slip all the time and they don't talk about it. But I think that's the beautiful thing that you're doing, is talking about it.

But we shouldn't have shame.

Because this is one of the hardest diseases ever to get through.

And I've said it before, like they say a is the last, you know, house on the block you.

Want to go to, but then like sex and love, addiction and stuff is like the shack in the back you like don't want to go to, like it's the worst place in the world. So I get it. I mean I can even hear that like shamefulness that you feel if you hold.

I'm wearing it thick, especially as we get in closer.

Yeah, it really is.

And yeah, it's just hard and uncomfortable, and you know, it's just one of those things. But I think we're just taking it in stride.

Yeah, I mean, like we were kind of saying earlier too. Bran I was saying, you know, I was talking to my therapist and I'm like, it's hard for the partner. I feel like to because we have celebrated it two or three times, like because I still want to celebrate him because I think it's amazing, especially you know, Okay, it's gonna be on New year' z Like what a celebration? What a Like you know, this is amazing, you know,

Is this going to be?

You know now is New Year is going to be a trigger holiday? Because he might relapse again and be like, oh, we could have been celebrating here, you know. So it's like it just sets more and more like trigger trigger places and trigger holidays and trigger like because it's like there already there's enough triggers in the world as it is. With this, it's like I'm like, how am I supposed

Well I can understand.

I mean, when any I and I speak to a lot of partners, it's so interesting that we're talking about this. I had someone reach out yesterday. He's the partner of someone that you know, she keeps cheating on him, and he keeps going back to her, and she's holding on to him. And I was just telling him, you have to understand that when a slip happens, it has nothing

If the relapses keep happening, then it's kind of like what you said to me last December. You're like, he's not doing the work, Like you can't put your foot and forward either way if he's not doing the work.

Yeah, And I said that to I was like, if he's not doing the work and he's not taking it seriously, then you got to get out, you know, because just like my husband, if I'm not doing the work to better myself and to get out of my isms, it's not fair for him to stick around.

Brian, when did you decide to be public about being, you know, in slaw and sex and love addiction.

Well, that's the funny thing.

I mean, when I hit ten years, it was this moment and Jane and I talked a lot about it because we've been doing that project we've had together, and it was this overwhelmed I spoke at this meeting, and I spoke for forty five minutes, and it was a meeting all around the world over the phone, right and you can call in and leave a message for the speaker, and I got all these messages from all over the world, and it was such a beautiful moment for me because

That other side.

It's my it's it's it's almost like God gave me this gift to be the voice for a woman sex and love at it because women, it's more shameful. As a woman, I feel, yeah, you know, it's more like it's even when a Jana and I were talking, you remember, You're like, it's not real.

It's a man who remember he said that to me.

I was like.

No.

But I just felt like, here's.

My chance to give my experience, strength and hope to a bigger than just Los Angeles. And I wrote this huff Post article coming out, you know, as a sex and love addict, a recover sex and love addict, sharing one of my bottoms, and it was the.

Best thing I've ever done.

It was terrified, but then the feedback has been so beautiful and like my girlfriend has this problem.

I have this problem.

I can't like stop cheating, I can't you know, keep dming guy like everything. And I just felt of such service that it just made me think bigger than just myself for sure.

I mean it is, you know, even with negative blowback or whatever. I know, for me personally, just with our story being out there, the amount of guys that have reached out to me or messaged me or whatever, and that I've met with and talked with, that's more fulfilling

Much in which aspect.

Just because more people, so many people have reached out and so I just feel encouraged, Like it helps me feel encouraged with what we're doing as opposed to as much shame. Yeah, I mean because people lean on me, Guys lean on me, guys reach out to me and want to talk about these things. So it's just an added layer for it.

It makes us accountable.

Also, it makes you accountable, like do you want to go do this thing? I mean even just that chip,

Crawl out of my skin.

I felt like I was like a snake, like trying to shed its skin. Yeah, is that how you feel? Because that has to be a lot of pressure at this stame.

It is, and it's been an unfortunate hat to wear like this early in my recovery process, especially over the last four or five years or four years that our story has been out. But that's the thing. My anonymity was taken away from me. That wasn't my choice, and so I've had to write it out, you know, and it's it is hard because then when you know, I did have you know, the setback last year, and it's like we essentially have to publicly address it.

You know. That's that sucks.

Yeah, it sucks to really for both of us, not just me, but for both of us to for janit to feel embarrassed or to feel sadness around that, for me to feel shamed and embarrassed as well. And so it's you know, it's not easy, and but again we're just you know, we just have to keep talking about it and lean on each other around it and be able to express our feelings.

You and I.

Yeah, yeah, because I don't know if my husband, I don't know if Mark would have been able even you know, he's sober like thirty something years and his own addiction, but that would have been really hard on our relationship the first year going through that, because did you feel like this first year was like your first you know, the other you know, three years ago, because the first year is the worst, it's the worst.

You feel like you're dying.

Yeah, you know, because I've I've still been in the program for four years now, it's yeah, felt simpler at times because of that those initial just like even though you're doing the work, you feel like you're white knuckle in every second of the day. Where I've I've gotten past like that, that kind of those kind of places where you know, when I first entered the room, the

It was just.

It was still getting to that level of comfortability with myself, and it was just I was just a hard time to doing that. The initial stuff was okay, but I just had a hard time maintaining it because eventually I just kind of fell off the wagon. I'll just be reaching for something.

I don't know what it was, well, anything to fill that hole when we're feeling. Even this morning, I have to tell you, like a part of me was like annoyed that I was on a Zoom one of the Zoom meetings you know that I go to every morning, and people were just annoying me, And I was like, why am I so irritated? And it makes you want to like reach for a cookie or reach for your phone, to look at Instagram, anything you can do to get

You know I was.

I was on a twelve step meeting this morning. A guy said something great that was being real time just with something he was dealing with, and he was making an im point. He was like, you know, one is too many, A thousand's not enough to exactly your point like to take that distraction or take whatever. And I was like, man, it's it's so true because you know, you still have those moments where you're like, you just

But don't you feel grateful a little bit?

I mean, I have to tell you we have the tools. Can you imagine not having the tools and being in this world pandemic and not being able to jump on a twelve step meeting in the morning when your kids are driving you crazy, your significant other you're just feeling discomfort, Like, I'm so grateful.

I'm extremely grateful for that. And I mean i mean this from a not codependent way, and I'm grateful that I have of Janna because I know not to compare, but I know so many other spouses, There so many other guys that are in worse situations, you know, with

Do you ever ask her to like fix it for you?

Not anymore? No, Like I'm able to. I'm getting better at allowing her to have her feelings or allowing myself to have my feelings without putting that on her. But you know, Janet got was reached out by somebody Anonymous

I mean, that's a that's a load of question because there's no right way, Like I said to Janna and like I say to anybody listening, if you're with a sex addict, a sex and lave addict, a love addict, a codependent, any of those things and they're acting out outside of your relationship, one number one, you can't fix them. It's not Jana's responsibility to fix you. It's not my husband's responsibility to fix me. And they're not reason enough

Brian, why do people still Like a lot of people will say and leave comments like oh, that's just a you know, married's man excuse, or like they don't believe sex addiction?

Well, number one, I think I think it's the most uncomfortable disease. It's easier to be like, oh, that person's addicted to drugs and alcohol and Janna, you and I've talked about it, and you know, more people are in jail and dead because of sex and love addiction. More people are murdered over sex, over jealousy, over cheating, More people are in jail. And I've spoken out jails for a really long time, and every woman in there was a sex and love at it in some form.

So I think society as a whole.

We lean into glamorizing falling in love, glamorizing sexuality, you know, putting it all out there, intriguing, flirting.

All that stuff.

So society doesn't want to look at it as a problem because if they look at it as a problem, then that means our whole structure has to change. So I think it makes people really uncomfortable with the idea

But it's not. It's so real. I can't even tell you.

I was on a meeting the other night and there was like four hundred people like it's it's this is a huge deal. I think our society is so disconnected, and social media has even made us more disconnected and lean into fantasy and like going online and looking at other people's lives and fantasizing and all that. So I just feel like it's too hard for people to understand that it is not a man of disease.

I wish it, ye me both.

I was like, I wish it wasn't real.

But when you meet a woman that is sixty five that can't stop cheating, you know, or another man that can't stop watching porn, and it's just like one after the other, and it's every walk of life. It's every gender, it's every you know, that's everything ethnicity.

Yeah, that's why I tell people, especially in Los Angeles when I was doing meetings there, I mean you had people from eighteen to eighty, every creed, color, sexual orientation, marital status, you name, all all about.

It, like Janitor to like CEO to huge as it doesn't matter.

Yeah, ooh, spill all the deets. And I'm kidding.

Oh tell me who, Well, that's what I do. Spill some deeds, but I don't say because I do have Yes, she does, so go ahead tell us all about the book and then your podcast too. Oh. So I did write a book, which is crazy because I'm dyslexic and like me writing a book, I can't even put like a proper sentence together.

But I did.

My husband forced me to write a book in a loving way, and it's coming out in February, and it's caused Secret Lives of a Hollywood Sex and Love adict and there is you know, some stories in there that have to do with Hollywood, have to do with this addiction. How Hollywood amplifies the addiction sometimes. And yeah, I'm really excited. I'm really nervous, and I hope people like it. It's based on my life, but it's in a fiction character and it's gonna be a lot of fun, I think.

And you've read it, Danna, it's juicy.

It's it's it is jucy.

I had someone I had someone read it and they said, and I think you said the same thing. They said, it's like tittlizing, but you it's an addiction, so you feel like really wrong.

But then you it's like a car crash. You can't like like you want to be a part of it. But they were like, no, wait, what what am I? And then you have a podcast too, so and I love the premise of your podcast, So tell our listeners what yours is all about.

It's called Secret Life. We started it, my husband and I started it at the beginning of August. We were feeling and I know a lot of people were. We were feeling so disconnected with everything going on, and we're like, how can we give back on a bigger level. So I was in bed one night and it popped into

Of that shame, let go of that secret.

So I started the podcast called Secret Life, and people come on and share all types of secrets.

You know.

Some of the first ones were their husband, their boyfriend was a sex addict, you know, coming out of the closet with their parents, having emotional incests with their mom, shooting themselves in the chest with a shotgun and surviving

Too cool.

It's in Brion, you know.

You always say like everyone has an ism, yes, which is always was interesting, like we all have some kind of ism we do.

I think what Mike said is that we all use something to get outside of ourselves, whether it be shopping online. I have tons of girlfriends that when they're bored, are feeling not okay, they'll go and shop and it's like I ask them, where are you going to wear that right now?

Like you can't go anywhere?

Why are you shopping clothes?

Yeah, like you're not wearing it anywhere.

So, or they watch a lot of television and they're obsessed with Netflix. Or you're eating a bunch of cookies, which I had one this morning for breakfast because.

I was feeling uncomfortable.

We all have something we do to get outside of ourselves, and I am trying to make a movement where we stop and we just us are okay with just as we are where we are, and that we are loved no matter what with all our brokenness, with all our discomforts, with all our low self esteem, that we're all the same, We're all scared of fear and abandonment at some level as humans.

I love you, Brian.

Everyone follow Brian Davis get her book when it comes out in February, Secret Life of Hollywood, Sex and Love Addict, and then also her podcast Secret Life Podcasts, and just I love you. I'm proud to know you. I'm proud to call you a friend. So thanks for coming on BIB, Bye.

Guys, and congratulations on your.

You all try to accept that.

Yes, please do pat yourself on the book.

Thanks, brand appreciate it.

Bye, guys.

You know it's like she ended with their you know, everybody has something that they reach for, and I just want to clarify kind of what her and I are both saying on that is that doesn't mean everyone's an addict of something. It's just because there's tendencies behind that. But but we do. Everyone has something that when they're feeling a certain way, they distract themselves and it could be a healthy distraction, but we all try find ways to avoid feeling that.

What is your healthy distraction?

My hobbies, your hobbies my twelve hobbies.

Then you start a hobby, you buy all the stuff for it, and then you do it like once or twice.

What I haven't I done though?

I mean, you biked for like I biked.

For a while, and I'm still going to once it gets warm again. I'm just not that committed to do it in the cold.

Yeah, I mean I think, I mean, my healthy one's running, but my probably my unhealthy is either scrolling on Instagram in like comparing or sometimes well, lately, I've done a better job of not drinking wine when I'm frustrated because I've noticed that, like I was, just would drink wine just to not feel, which is not a good thing. So now I'm I'm careful to not drink on those nights because I don't want that to become an issue.

So earlier before, Brian, you said something I found interesting.

As you were saying about Mike's year, you referred to it as I forget the exact words you used. There was something like, as far as we know, you've been good for a year, and I feel like, of course it's impossible for you to know everything, But isn't there an implied lack of trust in that sentence.

I mean, I could see how you would think that, and I get it. But that's how I have to because I don't know. I'll never know. Only he knows. To my knowledge, i've seen him. If I if I were to say like he is, that's gonna destroy me over and over and over because I don't know what the real truth is.

But when you.

Say that, is it a subtle way of saying to him, I trust you to a point, I trust you ninety percent, but just so you know, it's not all the way there yet.

To me, it's not towards him. I could see how it could.

Maybe you could maybe think it's like a passive, but it's more like to protect myself.

Yeah, I think.

I would take it personally, Like how do you take it when.

You say I used to take it personally? For sure, because that's exactly how our to receive it as passive. It's like you're saying you believe me or trust me, but not really. But over time I'm able to realize why that said, because you know, it's kind of you know, fool me. Want shame on you for me, twe shame on me, you know what I mean? So that twice I've had to reset my time.

Well we've had to well like four times we've had two year, three year birthdays and then have.

The reset of a few twice.

I've twice I've had to go back on my one year. Yeah, that's why I'm kind of getting that this would be the third time I've gotten two a year quote unquote because the past ones. So I can understand that she can't just wholeheartedly just trust fall into me, you know what I mean. That's going to take time, and I got to earn that, so I don't take it personally anymore. I I you know, I take it for what it is, and I understand that there's still healing and pain behind it.

Yeah.

My therapist is kind of always said, like, because that's that's the knowledge that we know. What we know is you know what we what we think is going going on, but we don't fully know. And so if we hold on like no, no he's not, then you're gonna like you can spiral like so crazy out of control because you're gonna want to I'm gonna want to put the control.

The letting go of control.

Letting go of expectations and control and the fear.

But that but that's a good illustration of how this is not really a celebration of one year. It's the tempered enthusiasm behind it because Mike's got the shame of hitting this point plenty of time, Jenna st look out the as far as we know, so therefore it is what it is, and it's notable, but it's not a celebration.

But I think it's still But that makes me sad because I think it's still should be celebrated because hopefully we won't have to come well they're I won't unfortunately be around for the next one, if there is one, and that's just the reality. But I'll still support him from from afar.

What's the farthest we've gotten one year?

But again, it wasn't really sober.

Now this is the farthest I've gotten.

Well, that's worth celebrating.

I think.

See that's that's and that's what I'm saying, Like that's where I think, you know, that is worth celebrating. Yeah, because yeah, because we've he this is the most sober he's been for a year. Like that's amazing, And I do want him to celebrate that because I hope that it's going to be you know, one year, one day and then one year, you know, like I'm excited for him.

I want him to feel so celebration at two years because we've never come close to two years, right, or maybe.

It's five years.

No, I mean, hey, every every year that it gets more and he's legit so like you know, like live and how he'd lived the past year. I mean, we're gonna have massive celebrations.

Well and here, but here's the thing that anyone in program would say to all that is, I don't even I'm not even thinking about that because now getting to this point, being the farthest I've gone along, I realized why people in program said it's you know, one day at a time, because it is you literally live one day at a time. You know, the moment you start thinking about all that and you know that's when you

Hey man, Well, I genuinely am really excited to celebrate your one year. And I hope that, like you said, there's many more years to come. But for right now, let's just soak in the one year. And I'm proud of you for live in a sober year.

Well, I appreciate that, honey. I'm really going to try, and you know, I just want to say thank you because you know, I've put us through a lot and you're still here, and like I was telling Brian earlier in the show, and you is in a healthy way. You know, you're a huge part of my motivation. And I just continue to remind myself on how grateful I am that I still have you, because there's a lot of people that wouldn't stick around. So I thank you, and uh, we'll just make the day the the best

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