Find Down with Jane Kramer and Michael Coffin and I'm her radio podcast.
You know, we always do this show right after lunch, and it's actually it's and there's been times where I haven't eaten lunch beforehand, Wolf, and it's not a good sight. I could probably go back and in the first couple of minutes back, Oh, I didn't have lunch that day?
Yeah, did you have lunch beforehand?
I had a bar.
You know what I want to have that I haven't had a while? What tunefish?
It actually sounds really good.
Out of a tunic can.
That sounds good with some mayonnaise, some light mayo, a little celery. Yeah, can you make that tomorrow?
Sounds great?
I actually would love that right now.
I know it sounds amazing.
And then we'll eat it on air because Mark loves when we eat.
And that's a perfect thing to be on air. A lot of souff smacking. Oh, that'll drive Mark up the wall.
Yeah.
If I'm taking some deep breaths, it's because I've got some new puppies on my chest.
Everyone's dying to see.
You know what's really funny about getting a boob job is my friends that have gotten boob jobs before, They're always like you want to see it? And I'm like, yeah, sure, like I mean weirdo. But now I'm like every person, I'm like, you want to see my boobs and I'm like, unzipping my I don't know what it is. I thought.
I started laughing to myself last night because before I was that person that was like, I mean sure, yeah, like I'll see And now I'm like every neighbor girl I've showed my boobs do I'm like, you want to see him? And I'm like flipping my boobs open?
Does it feel like artificial? So it doesn't seem as like intimate or.
Something I think it feel. I mean, it's it's not that I mean, yes, are they artificial, Sure, they're fake, but it's like a new toy almost like you want to see my new toy.
You got a new car, check come check out out.
It's almost not as like, for example, I was embarrassed when I would show my boobs to my like I would always hide, like my doctor, doctor unger who did my boobs in Nashville, Like he was like my ariolas looked like dinner plates. So it's like, you know, the last time I showed my girlfriends, they were like and
had like the gasp thing. So it's like, now I'm like, you want to see my babies, Like I'm like proud of them in a weird way, and maybe they're not as Yeah, it's not as like I don't know, it sound as like ooh, like I'm like afraid to show them, or I'm scared to show them, or I'm embarrassed or something.
So you think it's more of a confidence proud thing instead of like you don't even feel like they're yours yet because they're these brand new things that you haven't had.
Yeah, both, Like I think once I'm like they settle and the scars are healed, I'm not going to be like, check out my books. I think right now they Yeah, they don't feel like mine for sure. So that's why it's like it doesn't feel as but eventually I'm not going to be like, yeah, you want to see you know, unless like a girlfriend who's thinking about it. But I'm not going to show Molly. But Molly's like, let me see, and I'm like okay, and I'm like unzipping my thing like and hoping, you.
Know, at the bus stop before the kids get there.
Literally that's what it was. But yeah, it's I'm right, I'm seven days. So now it just feels heavy, like just like a tightness. But I have no I have no regrets. I just want the tightness, heaviness feeling to go away, because that's the mornings and the nights suck because it just feels really heavy. And they're a lot bigger than I thought they would be. But the doctor said they're going to go down, see which because I
want small. I want it small. And I here's the thing, you know, it's it's so weird to even kind of talk about because I think women should embrace their bodies. I shouldn't have felt uncomfortable about my boobs, but I mean you would see me even when you'd come in the shower, I'd kind of like hide my boobs because it was just And I think women should embrace their bodies no matter what. But I also think it's okay to do what you want to do, to have that extra confidence.
Too, right, I think that's the thing, right, like society or people and especially I mean I can't I can only understand to a certain extent because I'm not a woman. So I can't even imagine the pressure that you know, society has put on women over the years. And but I think it's okay. If someone wants to alter it for their own personal reasons of feeling more confident for whatever reason, then yeah, sure, I don't think they should be shamed about it. And they also should be shamed
if they love their body the way it is. Yeah, it doesn't you know, there's a there's that fine line there. But I don't think you all need to feel ashamed or feel like you have to explain or defend yourself for your decisions on your body.
Yeah. Yeah, because I've heard, like some people be like, well why would you change what God gave you? And then the other thing is like you should embrace your body, and like I am, I'm embracing it. I'm just also doing what I want to do.
Too, which is tertrially fun.
Yeah, and it's all good either way. But I'm already kind of I'm like all right, like, hey, they're a little more confident.
Yeah good.
I think the thing with my daughter, because someone did DM me and said what will you tell your daughter? And I think I would have I feel like that's gonna sound like a total hypocrite. Right now, I feel like I would have. I know friends that have had them done when they were eighteen, nineteen twenty, when they're younger, and in my mind, I always go, we'll love yourself. And then I always say, wait till after kids, because if you have a boob job before kids, your boobs
are going to get ruined and destroyed. But then the same time, if it helps you get get confidence, but then I would never like to Jolie if she's like, I want a nose job, I'd be like, baby girl, no, Like, you have the most beautiful nose. But how could I say that when I'm like, well, mommy got boobs to make yourself feel better.
And I think I think a similar a similar analogy to this is like tattoos, right, Like jan and I both have tattoos. Jolie the last couple of mornings has drawn all over herself in the morning with a marker saying they're tattoos, and I love tattoos.
I want tattoos, and you have a sleeve tattoo.
So you know, But it's one of those things when the kids become of age. Right, even though we have a lot and it's like we can't be hypocrite and say no, you can't get one. But at the same time we're gonna be like, well, volunteers, wait, you know, and it's we look at them different, like their body is this sacred thing, you know, that we've created and we love so much and we want to protect it and we want them to feel beautiful the way that they God made them. But then we look at ourselves
they're like, I want this, I want that. So it is it is a similar analogy to that on how we handle decisions we've made or changes we've made to ourselves and how not to be hypocritical but also supportive to kids.
Well, and that's why I hope that the conversation because when I was eighteen, I mean I've I had flat boobs all the way up until I was pregnant, like I didn't care, like I liked smaller boobs, and these still will be very small when they go down. But you know, if Jolie wants big boobs, that will be hard when she's at a younger age because I'm going to be like, you don't need the big boobs, like wait till after you have kids, and then lift the suckers up and then if you want bigger boobs in.
But like, because my dad he called me and he's like, hey, I was watching your Instagram. He's like, why are you getting boobs? You know? And I ended up talking to him and I'm like, cause I'm a thirty seven year old woman and f had two kids and they're saggy, and I just want to have a little confidence boost dad, And you know, but I appreciate you and I know
that you love me for me. So it's even when the kids are thirty seven, thirty eight years old, we're still going to be like, you don't need to change anything. You're beautiful just the way you are. But it is about just being like, you know, I don't know. That's hard.
The positive here is that.
I'll have perky chits.
That is one of the funnies.
Another is if the kid, if Jolie wanted to get something down there, Jace wanted to get something done, whatever it is, you know, it's ultimately our decision financially until they're able to pay for it themselves. So really it's not like when they are eighteen nineteen twenty, we still have the final say and we're not going to let Jolie convince us when she's twenty years old that she has to have boobs, she has to have this done, you know.
What I mean?
Well, I don't even know if we want to touch on this topic, but what happens if they come to you at twelve thirteen and want to do gender reconstruction? And you know, we got to tread lightly in this topic too, because that's something where if they are identifying with like if now I think you know, I don't even know if we shoul go here, But I'm just saying no, I'm I'm just I'm just saying, like, if they're if they're twelve thirteen, however old there and I
don't know. I haven't done enough research. I'm not, but I've been I've heard and read stories of kids being twelve years old and saying, I am a female, I was raised or genetically female, but like I am, I want to be a male. I want to go through the process of being a male. Like how could we as parents say no to that.
I wouldn't say flat out no because I wouldn't want to shut the door on maybe feelings that I don't understand, but they are having but I would say, say they're thirteen and they're having this talk with us or whatever. I would say, come back to us in five years. Talk to us in five years, because they're thirteen years old. They're in the most impressionable timeline of their lives, right
the teenage years. If you still feel this way, you can still if you feel like Jace, if you feel like you're there's a girl inside of you, you feel like you're meant to be a girl, fine, act that way, be that way, dress that way, whatever it means to you.
Do that.
Let the physical transformation from a surgical standpoint be the last step. That doesn't have to be the first step. Let that be the last step. And if that's still the case when you're eighteen or early twenties, okay, sure, but I'm not gonna let a thirteen year old dictate just because they're trying to find themselves and because of the awareness of today's society with this topic, you know, it's something that they could it is now. It is
now something people feel more comfortable identifying with. Right Like when we were growing up, it wasn't really.
A I didn't know a transgender.
Right like, finding yourself this wasn't part of the options available.
Yeah, I mean gay. I have found out gay when I was in high school and transgender in my twenties.
Right, so, you know, but now because it's out there more, it's it's you know, more talked about. Kids learn about it at a younger age, and so it becomes this I won't I'm not calling it an option, but it becomes a possible direction if a kid's trying to find himself at this impressionable age.
We've had Billy Lee on our show probably like a year and a half ago, and we've actually remained friends. She's transgender, and we still DM we still talk, and you know, I think kind of what I took away from that is you don't want your kids to go through hardships or be bullied or I mean even from the little thing of when like, you know, I found out Jase had a stigmatism in his eyes and he's gonna get glasses. I'm like, oh God, kids are gonna
make fun of him. It's like, you don't want your child to have hard.
Just have to deal with adversity, even though we all know that's what makes you stronger.
They add, it's what makes us stronger, and it's like that they need that, but also like to add more on top of it and more bullies.
Like that's just like I would be interested. I don't know if we could get him on the show. But Dwayne Wade and Gabrielle Union, so their son, you know, he's like eleven, oh identify is came out to his parents to say I identify as a female, and they've been unbelievably supportive and I respect the heck out of that, and I would like to think we would be the same way. But this question we're talking about would be interesting to propose to them, be like, okay, your son
now daughter, however they identify? They said they you know, they want to be recognized as a female. They're young teens, however old they are asked that question to them, they proposed to sex change, say mom and dad, and obviously they have the money to do it, like mom and dad.
I actually think I read something like.
I would like to have a physical sex change. What they would say to their child that's of that age and wants to identify.
Her name is what is it? Zia?
Yeah, Zia, she's thirteen.
She came out at eleven, right, here, there you go. And I think the bottom line is that whatever we want to do to our bodies, from breast augmentations to transgenders to our kids, it's just about really leaning in because and I know I'm not trying to bring this back around, like, but I did it when I wanted to do it on my terms what I wanted, not because I was trying to you know, have big boobs
because I thought Mike would like it or whatever. Like, It's about like doing it for yourself, not for popularity, not for this, not for anything. So that's I think whatever direction you go from, whatever you want to do to change yourself or make yourself feel better, I think instead of bullying or being mean or passing judgment just because you don't understand doesn't mean that it's it's you should do what you want to do to make you happy and who you feel.
And it stands the test of time. Yeah right, It's not a it's not a knee jerk reaction in or decision. It's something that you've talked about and thought about for years and playing around so you know it's gonna be this is we have a perfect guest for this kind of stuff today because we have a doctor Hillary Goldsher, who's a clinical psychologist for a private pri just in
Beverly Hills in Los Angeles. So we're gonna take a break and then get her on and we have some topics around kids that we want to talk about.
Yeah, some hot topics between Mike and I.
Sure, let's take a break, all right.
So, like we said, guys, we have doctor Hillary Goldchure with us, who is a clinical psychologist in Beverly Hills and Hillary, doctor Goldsher.
What would you would you what do you like to go by Hillary?
Doctor Hillary?
You're like, I worked hard for that doctor called me doctor Hill. Yeah. Right.
So you know, obviously nowadays with with schooling and kids and kind of all the changes that you know, society isn't used to along along that lines, Jana and I have have had a lot of discussions around schooling in our kids' future and what that looks like. And we
both grew up public school. You know, you go to school, I mean, blue collar type mentality, right, you go, you don't miss you do this, And nowadays we just hear a lot more things changing with co ops, with homeschooling, it looks a lot different these days, and Janna brought to me recently about the idea of was it doing like a co op with some friends or a homeschool.
So okay, so this is just to kind of give a little other sidebar. At times, I'll have to go do a movie, right and it's you know, like we just got done doing one in Vancouver and the whole entire you know, it's a six six weeks in Vancouver, and you know, in in July we're having to go a month to Connecticut, and luckily that that time is
not during school time. But I started to kind of have a little anxiety around it because you know, when Jolie starts kindergarten in August and her public school, which again I've always been like public, public, public. We're in a great school zone. But she can only miss eight days. And I know for us and our family, we're better together. Mike and I are better together. I think we're better
as a family unit. But then I started to think, am I being selfish by then taking the kids away from their you know, activity, their activities or is it cool because I'm like, hey, we're going to go explore a different state now, and we're going to go here and we're going to go to this museum and we're going to see this. And you know, the kids a private school, you can they just give your homework and
it is what it is. And it's again like for us, like I think, am like am I being selfish by wanting that for our family and for the kids?
Yeah, when we think of these sort of dilemmas which are the details are different, but are on the hearts and minds that I think so many people right now in the face of the pandemic in the aftermath, it's kind of making people rethink what is education going.
To look like for our family? For many reasons.
And I like to take a step back and really recognize that most often when you're making these kind of decisions, this may sound obvious, but really leaning into the fact that there are trade offs, that it's imperfect, that no matter what choice you make, what decision you come to as a family, there's going to be pros and cons on both sides, And it's so hard as parents to sit in the sort of messiness of that because there's
just a truth to it. Right, whatever decision you make, and maybe we'll talk it out and think through for your family where it makes most sense to leave you folks. But if you take her out of the public school setting, there are trade offs, so she may miss the local feel of walking to school, you know, the regular activities, all of those things, right, And if you take her to private school and you have the opportunity to have sort of a more expansive lifestyle with more family time,
there's pros and cons there as well. So I think stepping back and really accepting that part of your job here as parents is to sort of deeply lean into that truth, almost as like an energetic example to the kids that like life is a little messy, like it's full of trade offs, and when we make decisions, we have to accept that and sort of be resilient and be flexible and be spontaneous and to get to the
micro part of what you're talking about. I mean, those are very real considerations, and it's sort of like coming together as a family and figuring out what's our family culture, what are our family values? How are we going to prioritize this stuff? And that is such a hard question. I mean, how do you prioritize family time and expansive sort of lifestyle relative to her soccer games with her friends or you know, welcome to school and having everything
so local. That's a tough one, but it's like that's the deep dive that you guys have to do to start to decide how do we prioritize and how does that lead us to the path we're meant to be on.
I kind of have a twofold question. I know that's not the right thing to do, but you know, the first one is how can like, how do you do that when we have different views as parents? And then also another one too is I know, kids are so adaptable.
I mean, I don't know if that's the right word, but they're you know, with the masks and stuff, like, I know, they're still I got an email from this school like they still have to wear their masks in the public school and for some reason, I don't know what it is, but isn't there some isn't that going
to like psychologically mess them up a little bit? I mean the fact that my two year old son for the past year and a half has just you know, I mean, he's the most he's so afraid of going outside the house now because and I'm like, have just is he just going to be filled with anxiety now because we go five minutes away from home, he's like home home, home home, because he's not used to he was quarantined. He's used to being quarantined and we're not
allowed to leave. And then like with my daughter too in the mass, it's like, is that like messing them up psychologically with having to like hide our faces? And I don't know it. Just as a parent, I'm like, how do I like help them with that?
Yes, I'm so glad you're asking this question because this comes up all the time and work that I do with parents in sessions and in lectures, et cetera. But it's I think we have to make a distinction between who impact a community crisis like COVID is going to have on ourselves or our kids and potential long lasting effects. So of course we don't know for sure, or we
don't have data on COVID and kids. It's not available to us yet, right, But we use other studies and evidence that we have around kids to make really good hypotheses. And my hypotheses, and I think my industry's hypotheses are that there's an increase in anxiety amongst our kids and amongst ourselves. I mean, if we're affected, or some of us are affected, how are our kids not going to
be affected? Right, So embracing that that's a truth, but also recognizing that much like other anxieties that they can resolve with time, they can be addressed with support and with resilience and with empathy and strategic sort of plans in place. So for kids, some kids, not all kids, but some kids have a version of what you were talking about with your two year old, where they're now worried to go outside. They're worried to be exposed to germs,
they're worried to be not physically or socially distanced. Right, So leading into that, having a conversation with them about it, saying to your son too, I have a three year old and I have a six year old, so I'm in it. I have two little boys, saying to your son a version of gosh, I noticed, I noticed that when we go outside or when we go do things, that a party really wants to go home.
And I get it. I get it. You feel nervous. We've been inside for so long.
It's so different to go outside. Not trying to fix it in the moment not trying to repair it, but to really honor those feelings. Much in the same way, if you were talking to your husband and saying, I'm anxious about this, if he was like, oh, no, no, no, it's going to be fine. That when you feel super validating that, when you feel super supportive, right, you would want them to say a version of like, oh my god, I'm so sorry you're feeling that way.
It's the same for our kids.
We want to say to them, I noticed you're feeling that's so hard, that's so scary, and then later say, you know, I was thinking again.
About how you were feeling anxious about going outside.
If we could come up with some ideas what could we do and like take out a piece of paper, what can we do?
We could bring your favorite we could.
Hold hands the whole time, to have a secret code where it's getting really hard, so I know, to give you a snuggle, you know, those kinds of things, so that you're doing sort of a two part validating strategy and also like giving him some robust skills and like, well, what do I do when.
I feel those things?
Right, there's something that you had brought up, I think on a past podcast. I don't think we were talking to an actual, you know, specialist about Jolie's anxiety and if it's if it's if we've maybe taught her, remember how you're like you don't want her to get uh oh?
Where it felt it felt like codependent almost where our daughter has a natural uh direction towards the dramatic. Okay, she's five years old and she is she is a drama queen princess dve already and we love her for it, and we've done these. Janet did a great job like doing like breathing exercises with her right and it's amazing the fact that she's able to do that. She's even we have a video of her doing it to our son when he was upset. It's like, oh, Jane's just
breathed and it's great. But then when she gets super upset, she's like I can't breathe. I can't breathe, Like help me breathe, help me breathe. And you know it's like, obviously the protective parent I mean wants to be like, okay, let's do this like I got you, and then the other part of me is like, am I enabling codependency? Is she always going to need someone else to help her breathe is, you know, But I don't want to be like you got to do it yourself.
So it's like like you did to.
Me when I'm having a panic attack. You can breathe. You're fine, You're breathing right now. Yeah, it's like what he said one time. That's fun.
That was a long time ago, it was.
But yeah, when we have them in our home and they're under the age of eighteen, our job is to do everything we can to fill them with the right resources and tools and support and guidance to get through your hard stuff. We think about us. You're an adult, Jenna, and you still have anxiety, and you still struggle with how to deal with it, as many many millions of people around the world do, and you need support from your loved ones.
Sometimes you might need support from a professional.
Right. We wouldn't want to cut that off for you. We definitely don't want to cut it off for Jobili, who's five, Right, So I understand your concern. There's a difference between coddling and not providing opportunities for your daughter to take responsibility when it comes to feelings. We want to air on the side of Wow, I'm so sorry this is so hard for you. Here's some ideas of what we can do in this moment. I'm right here with you, right and sure you don't have to take it on.
That you have to fix it in that moment.
I mean kind of as you guys are sort of looking at each other and rowing eyes at each other.
That like, right, Jana. Part of I think what.
You want in the moment when you're feeling anxiety is someone to go like, I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. I'm here with you until it feels better. That's a version of what you can do with your daughter too, and she can't catch your breath and she just can't get on top of it. For you, guys, not to panic, I know that's so hard. Love, We'll just all sit here together until you can catch your breath right here, you know, kind of things as opposed to like escalating
with her. Oh my god, what I need to do? Am I doing too much? Am I doing too little? Like I'm right here, I'm right here, Love. When you're ready to breathe, I'm going to breathe with you. You know kind of thing that like you're escalating you know, I hate to use the word drama, but to borrow it from you, since that's the feel you get, that you're not contributing to it with your own panic or your
own uncertainty about what you're doing. You're just leaning into the idea of like, right here with you, we're all going to be together until it starts to feel better.
I know it's instead what's the next second, what's the next thing, what's the next thing?
And kind of escalating with her. And I always tell parents that doesn't mean it's not messy. It doesn't mean it's not hard to get in that for you guys, just because you're saying those things, because you're doing the quote right thing in the moment, doesn't mean inside you're not dying, doesn't mean inside your heart isn't breaking.
It doesn't mean it doesn't feel messy and yucky. Right.
I like to say all the time I feel this way in my own household, that like, if it feels kind of messy and uncomfortable, I know I'm doing the right thing. I'm not all the time, but when I'm having tricky moments with my kids, that means I'm sitting in the mess that means I'm not trying to fix and I'm not trying to force them to make it go away. I'm sort of saying, in this family, we honor tricky feelings. I'm here with you, and I'll be
here with you until it passes. So that's like the narrative you want to send rather than getting over fixated on what the intervention is in the moment.
If that makes sense, No.
I love it.
I want to shift gears here for a second to more like the education aspect, like with children, and you know, with especially with the pandemic stuff, with ideas of co ops and homeschooling becoming more relevant, right and those options being more available. I again, I know, like I'll explain at the beginning, was I just come from a family. It's like you don't miss school. You go to school, you come home, you do your homework, all that stuff.
And I know we have some friends at homeschool are doing a co op and part of their motivation is to kind of control the curriculum right, kind of dictate what they think their kids should be learning and not learning. My personal opinion conflicts with that, just because I would still like, sure are Julie and Jay's gonna be chemists or biologists.
I don't know.
Maybe, but if you take away history or science or these general knowledge things that you learn in grade school in high school, like how well rounded can you be if you're just being like, oh, I only use this in my life, So my kids are just gonna learn A, B and C. So I just have a hard time with it. I know we hurt.
Jane and I have discussed it a little bit.
I think you still have to pass like a certain like there's still a certain test, like to go to the next grade, Like you have to know certain things right.
In public school private school. I'm not sure that that is true.
Interesting, So I guess my question to you is, you know, I'm sure, just like anything right, there's a give and take on each side. But what's your personal opinion when it comes to the education aspect for young kids and kind of your belief?
Yeah, it's such a good question, and I have to admit that in the sort of during and in the aftermath, if we can call it that of COVID, I too have kind of been reevaluating my personal relationship with public education versus private education. It's given us all kind of a window into oh, maybe we can tailor make our educational journey for our kids in a way that we really hadn't thought about or didn't feel possible, and you know, sort of trying to decide what I make of that.
And I too, wrestle with the idea of I want my kids to be resilient and sort of meet challenges and.
Not be overly uh overly.
Guided, so that can there's room for struggle, So there's room for you know, resilience building, and there's room for them to find their own path and make their own mistakes and pick themselves up.
Uh.
Also, I've been thinking about the importance of meeting a child where they are and having dedicated, like minded, really really warm, lovely teachers to think about my children more deeply than in a public school setting. And so those things are really on my mind. And I have to say, for me, I mean, and perhaps.
Not surprisingly since I am a psychologists, but for me, you know, the idea that.
Who my child is and who the rest of the children are around my child, and what best meets both my individual individual child means I'm thinking my six year old at the moment and the rest of the children's needs and the dynamics of the classroom feel really important to me. That probably leads me in the direction of a private school personally. And I too struggle a great amount, frankly with the idea of what a private school public school setting can offer in terms of the child kind
of having to find their own way. So I think it's important to suss out if you go to the private school direction, kind of what's the balance there and what ways does a private school encourage and implement very clear ways on how children develop on their own way of thinking, a sense of responsibility, how they handle mistakes and failures, or is that kind of dynamic environment encouraged or is it a little bit too narrow.
For those things to occur for sure? Right?
And I think that if you can look, I mean, and we're talking about a pretty privileged problem. I want to acknowledge not everyone has researchs to send their children to private schoo and I really want to acknowledge that, and and not not everyone gets gets to have this discussion, right if you're fortunate not to have it, really being able to do a deep dive into what the private school setting is and can you leave in those dynamics that naturally more naturally occur in a public school setting.
In theory, can do that you have the best of both worlds.
In theory in theory. In theory I have. I think one of my biggest fears around kind of really changing my mindset around it being more open to private or homeschool or co opera whatever it looks like, is it's like, I feel like the whole culture change right where back in the day quote unquote, you know, come home, you get bad grade, your parents ask you, like, what did you do wrong? And nowadays the whole joke about they go to the they go to the teachers, it's like,
what did you do wrong? Right, It's not their kids' fault, it's the teacher's fault that they didn't know the information.
So along with that kind of running trend, I fear that, you know, maybe parents that do co op or do homeschool or private school maybe are trying to take some of the parenting off of themselves and really control what their kids learn by having the teacher teach them everything they need to teach, right, so then it's not on the parents to teach them anything when the kids get home. And I have an issue with that right, because I
feel like we're very hands on parents. We take pride in being the parents, and I think parents just put too much on teachers plates and expectations that they expect their kids to learn everything from top to bottom, and they come home they don't know it. It's a teacher's fault. It's like, no, no, you're a parent, you still have to teach them. And so I make up that unfair stereotype of that's the kind of parents that are doing the alternatives, which is completely unfair for me to say. I'm not
saying that all of them are like that. That's it's just like my fear is that's the kind of surrounding that our children.
Would be in.
Yeah, well, I love that you're thinking about that, actually.
And I think that you can account for that or buffer that potential dynamic in your own family culture, right that if you decided to co operate homeschool or private school, et cetera, that at the beginning, you sit down with Jolly, who I think you said, is five and is ready to participate in a version of the following conversation. So mom and Dad made this decision, We're going to homeschool you and that we have amazing teachers, and we have
a wonderful classroom setting. It's going to be exciting and fun and hear all the things that you're going to get to learn about and experience. And also mom and dad are going to be super involved in this because we are dedicated to your education. It is our job to make sure that you're exposed to all the things that we think are important so you can be a good citizen in the world, so you can make a
decision about doing something you love. So you're going to see your teachers being really invested and involved you learning, but you're also going to see mom and dad really investing involved in what you're learning and so that you can you can continue. There's a continuum and you can bring that dynamic that you're talking about, which I kind of love home. I mean, I understand you're not wanting to uh accuse teachers of.
Uh not doing enough or or parents are et cetera.
Right, that that's not what you're getting up, But write the idea of like, wait, I don't want to.
Hand this off. I want to participate.
And you can do that by bringing in you know, supplemental projects, you know, books that you're interested in by having regular dialogue with your daughter or the teachers about what's happening, what's not happening, and and supplementing through your own teachings, through your own experiences that you have, and just talking about what's important to you so that if you're noticing she's not completing the homework or reading that she's supposed to be doing, but that that you.
Take that on. This is something really important, Mom and dad, we really are invested.
And the idea of responsibility and your responsibility this week is to read three bucks.
Yeah for sure, right, Yeah, that.
Those important kind of life values and sort of parental insights are not lost just because you've you've done a different academic growth.
Yeah.
And I just I mean I never and like you said, like it seems so privileged to be talking about private school, and honestly, like I'm the cheapest person out there, and I've always been like, I am never sending my kids to private school. And that's why I wanted to have a conversation because I feel selfish that I'm because I want the family to be together, Like that's the only
reason why. Because when I heard eight days, I was like, what, like then I'm like, I could never go a month without seeing, you know, my kids, and so it's you know, just kind of talking that out. But I think, you know, again, it's just like us having a conversation what's best for our family and you know, when, if, if, and when that happens that you know, I book ever the series
in Vancouver or whatever. You know, like what that looks like, and you know how we make it work and how our values might have to you know, mold a little bit together. But I kind of want to switch gears though on couples post pandemic, because I feel like, you know, we saw a lot of divorces, but I also think it's helped a lot of marriages. To what's one of the things that you saw that has been that was beneficial for couples during the pandemic and post pandemic.
Yes, well, a number of things come to mind, but what rises to the top is the sort of mixed bag of dynamics that have shown up.
So couples have been required.
To be physically and mentally and emotionally in the same space way more than they were a higher and in many of the couples that I've worked with that provoked issues to reveal themselves and oftentimes folks found themselves in my virtual office when they wouldn't have been right.
And so although it started.
Tricky or sort of conflictual, it provided an opportunity for vulnerability, authenticity, and eventually sort of connection and closeness.
So really this exposure to one another.
And I say it's bad because I've had both effects. I mean, I had lots of folks to come into my office and feeling like pet peeves about their partner, their frustrations with their partner, the lack of intimacy, lack of communication, difficulty dealing with conflict was just enhanced and increased given all the time they were spending together.
And it gave them an opportunity.
To face it and think about it rather than suppress it, dismiss it, avoid.
It and what like. Because for me, I think one of the things that I have a hard time with is in the moment when we're having an argument. And we talked about this a few podcasts ago, but I'm like, it's over, it's done. Like I'm like, this is the end of the world. Like, how do you not go to that place when when you're in the like here it is again. This is the same fight, and it's not resolving, and it's not changing, and and it's and
it's that blow up fight. But to not go to because he goes to the bedroom and he's like, it's just another fight. We'll be fine, and I'm like, you know, like this is the end of the world, Like I can't do this anymore, you know, And he's just like.
Sweet till you get the email from the lawyer tomorrow, okay.
And I was gonna ask you you actually say that out loud.
I did say that the last time. Yeah, and shamefully I did say that the last time.
But yeah, it's been a long time since you have it.
It's been a long time since I've said that. And I think it's because I I'm not going to make an excuse for it, but you know, in those moments, it's just feels so much that I'm like, how do I not let it just take over all of me? So that way I can just be like, it's just a fight, we will be fine. Things need to change and grow, but it's not the end of the world, and I don't need to throw in the I can't do this anymore. Expect a letter from Rose.
Yes, yeah, but I would I would do this.
I mean, and it's it's much easier to do this in an objective, calm moment, but a good exercise sort of trying to make a verbal agreement to not go there is is a really good idea. Doesn't mean you never will, doesn't mean you won't make them say, I mean that's what it is human and through the.
World together as a couple.
Right, Let's at least try to commit to the idea of, like, I'm really going to try not to do that. I'm going to try not to leave that collateral damage along with the difficulty that comes from the conflict. And I think one of the ways that will help you do that will help both you do it, depending on if that comes up mutually, is leaning much more into the feeling. So instead of leaning into the narrative of like, oh my god, here we go again. We're never gonna get
through this. It's always going to be like this, things will never.
Change, we can't make it.
Really leaning into the feeling, either out loud or to yourself or both of like I feel so hopeless, I feel so scared, soangous, so angry, you know whatever, the feelings are going to come up and be able to if it's a safe enough space, be able to say that.
You could even say out loud, God.
I'm in that moment where I feel like saying to you, we're never going to work, we're never going to laugh. But instead I'm going to tell you I'm so angry at you. I'm so angry at you that you just
can't get this. I'm so angry that you won't put your arms around me right now, I'm so disappointed that this happened again, and that will there's a relief, there's like a tension relief that comes from saying our true, deep, vulnerable feelings that mitigates the need to say those other things because we feel so triggered right and you probably notice this with your kids at least sometimes that if you're able to name the feeling that there's a it's
like letting the air out of the balloon. That's a way to help keep yourself from being heightened. And if it doesn't feel safe, for lack of a better word, to say that to Mike in the moment, for whatever sets of reasons, at least even saying that to yourself, Like what's like, what am I really feeling deeply here right now?
Why am I so triggered? I'm really scared?
I love that, Like I just feel hopeless. Like that's because that's such a vulnerable and hopefully you know that's just a way for you to settle.
Yeah, if I heard that from you, like you came in the room instead of saying you're going to get an email from tomorrow being like, I just feel so hopeless right now.
Yahyeah, that's it.
I mean, it gives me like the chills like talking about it, because it's such a connecting, vulnerable thing and it's having a.
Dynamic way of fighting.
Is intimacy building, right, it is because if you say it them, I feel hopeless, I feel scared, then you can hear that and probably feel empathy or compassion or love or a desire to comfort her or something, and you're being vulnerable. So instead of hearing about Rose the lawyer, you're hearing about like, oh, she's scared inside right.
For sure, closer to her. And so look, we.
Don't we don't, we don't that like a thousand of that every time, But to the extent that we can start weaving that into how we do conflict.
It makes such a big difference.
Yeah, and I think that's we need to learn how to do conflict better because we both want to be heard, and that's you know, our biggest thing with our therapist is trying to like that's I think the most escalates us. Yeah, that's because we're just really one one one. We'd keep going louder and louder and lotder, but so definitely we gotta we'll work on our conflict. But we we so appreciate you coming on and just talking about everything. I could talk to you all day, but I know that
you've got clients. Can where can our listeners find you? Reach out? And can they actually use you as a psychiatrist too?
Yeah? Yeah, so so two ways.
Yeah, So you can find me at my website, which is doctor Hillarygoldsure dot.
Com and it's g O L D S H E R.
And then I'm just doing a relaunch of my instagram and it's at doctor Hillary LA and it will be populated with content in like the next two weeks or so, and it will be sort of chop full of like parenting stuff, a couple stuff, and self care stuff. So if you follow now it will be pretty empty, but issue if you stay for a couple of weeks, it
will be it'll be populated soon. So yes, I'm taking clients and right now everything is still virtual giving COVID, but that makes my schedule a bit more flexible.
Awesome, Well, thank you so much.
Thanks for having me.
So glad to talk to you guys, you too, thank you.
Sure we'll talk to you again. Okay, good bye bye. I loved having like a real clinical therapist on psychiatrists.
No, it's it's good to talk through that stuff. And I think, you know, on the topic of the education things. It's just it's interesting to just have the conversations more, you know, around just the possibilities of education and what that looks like and to get out of at least my own narrow mind and think about possibilities.
Yeah, because we have friends that you're like co up, you know, like you're in a homeschool wow. And then then it's like, oh, actually, I really kind of like the sounds of homeschool now, you know, and because of certain COVID things or this or that or the other, and it's just we just don't want to mess up. I don't want to mess up as a parent, So
I just want to make the best decision. I'm trying not to be selfish, but yet I'm being selfish because I don't want to be without my family during a movie. I'm scheduling. I literally scheduled the next movie so that I don't miss you know, Jolie's first day kindergarten, and then we don't have to be separated, right, But there's going to come of time where you know, I guess and this is all champagne freaking problems, but I just I wanted to talk about really just like how it might affect.
Think about though. Everyone deals with this to an extent based around their careers. So whatever your career is.
Right, you have to whether it's to move, yet you might have to move for another opportunity. You might have to you know, change your schedule because of how the other person's work schedule is. So that everyone deals with this on a different spectrum. This is just ours because of the you know, occupation that you have outside of the things that we do, and so it's just our obstacle to face as a Family's.
Just so hard, you know, with my boob job and.
Well I think that wraps up another episode. I gotta take some pills, all right until next week.
L