Hammertime with Casey Hammer

and it is It's wild. I mean, I texted you at when I am and I was like, you did this to me, Kramer, because this isn't something I gravitate towards. Can I just tell you though a story about Army Hammer, please? I hope this goes where I've prayed it goes. Speaking of answered, first, let's do that, because I was like, this guy is a guy we we would swipe on, you would swipe on him. We're gonna get to the We're gonna get tall of it. But okay, this is juicy.

Well it's not really, it's not really juicy, but it's so Army and I did a movie together, like, I mean, hey, back in the day, I mean way back in the day. Actually, let me just pull it up right now, because I'm gonna am. I honestly saw him and I was like, this is an available bachelor, Like I thought, this is someone you would think is attractive me. Yeah, America, tell me you've done too many movies. Without telling me you've

done too many movies. No, No, I'm trying. No, Hong, It's like, well, let me just go to the movie. So it was called spring Breakdown and everyone a movie with Amy Poehler. I'm sorry, have we met and Kristin Cavalier uh sacer posing here which we had a conversation in which we can talk about that in our time, you and Kristen. Ok, let's just let's just stay on. But it's a very We're going to get a drink. Um. Okay. So Armie Hammer was Abercrombie boy in Spring Breakdown. Now

I had like a real talking part in this. Um I didn't. But we're here, we're gonna break it down. This is this is just and I'm like, literally, I'm I'm laughing at myself right now. I was seven, number two. I didn't even have a name either. So but we were like, but you talked and he was on a bag or what I'm and so all I remember is this but we we still had like it was like so like Kristen was Kristen was seven number three. I was seven number two, and then um Sophie Monk was

like we were her like little groupies. So like I would be like like one of my life just like I can't even read, like you know, Like it was just like I was one of those girls and the award goes to ye. So but like Army was on the show and he like, yeah, there, I am right there and there wow. So Army like tried to hit on me, and I was like in my mind, I was like he's, you know, like ever cramby boy and he's ever crampy boy like you know, and I was

just like not there with it. So then my friend Caitlin Crosby was like this is like a couple of

years later, she's like Army. It was just like she's the most beautiful woman I ever saw, Like, oh my god, I had the biggest crush on her, Like I tried to ask her out and so I was like, well like oh no, oh no no, because honestly, as I was watching it, I was thinking, and I'm not joking a I was like this is someone you would be attracted to and A. And then also I thought he would be so attracted to you because the women on here, I mean, the women he's attracted to our stunning. Well

you're very sweet. But I was like, grammar would fit in this quite well. Well, so I was like, well, yeah, I'm like like, okay, hook it up right. Well he had just started dating his wife or whatever, so I was just like, Okay, he's dating someone. But I was always like, damn it, the one that got away. Okay, so let me you're the one that got away. But here's where I want to break it down. Okay, so and I will say too. So I watched the documentary and I actually ended up speaking. I'm not going to

name her name. She was one of the girls on the documentary, and I reached out to her. I d m her and I said to her because there was I know that she's gotten some hate and because he was technically married at the time, But I'm like, what

these men tell these women that they pray on. Like again, I am remember calling one of the multiple affair girls and they're like, wait, your husband was married, and I'm like yeah, and I've got a kid so like these girls don't know Like when she's like he called me in the thing, She's like he called me all the time. He was texting all the time. Like it's like and I want you to know that, Like I get it.

And like also like I understand like the being like prayed and like the you know, he's army hammer and you're like wanting to be you know, this is like wild and you're in this world and like you're you're like I could tell that her testimony was very authentic, and I just wanted to like for as many probably hateful things as she was, Like I wanted to just be like someone that's just like hey, I I like I saw you, I heard you, and like you know,

get off the blocks, you know what I mean, don't read, don't read. But like the like he wanted to cook these one girl's ribs, Like he wanted to take out these girls ribs and cook them. Like it goes me on like fantasy stuff, right, like it goes like past like this, I don't even know the BDS, Like I

was b it's b D S M sex. But like what that girl was even saying, you know, they had like the psychiatrist on there like, yeah, that that goes like even beyond like what this is, Like they had an expert come on, and she was like that's a consensual thing, Like that's something both people are agreeing to. She was like, this is a person abusing essentially under this like disguise of it being B D S M right.

And I had this I'm not going to obviously name his name, but when I was I had this guy that I dated that was like way older than me and I was younger. And it's scary when you know, when when the younger girls and the older guys, because a lot of these girls were super young. Like I remember this dude that I was with, he was like, this is my fantasy in my mind. I'm like, well, I don't want this to be the fantasy, Like I

don't want to do this, you know what. I want to please this person, you know, because he loves me and I love them, and like but then I remember one day we had showed up at one of his fantasies and I was like, oh my god, like this isn't actually what. I just played along with it, thinking

like it wasn't going to actually happen. You didn't actually want to eat my ribs is what I thought, right, And I'm like, so I'm at this like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go into like told detail, but I just started crying and he got so angry with me, and I'm like, but I didn't think this was like a real and these like girls, it's like I'm like watching them, like, oh my god, it's like they're just you know, they're again they're playing along with this like

fantasy and like, yeah, okay, it's kind of like cute and kinky whatever, but then he just takes it to like this, it was abusive, so abusive, and then also like that's which is so scary because I'm like, but like that kind of like like that one with that one, like I want to eat you and she's like, you know, she's like at first it's like okay, that's kind of kind of cute, but then not knowing like I I want to bite you. It was like I wanna want to bite you. I'm gonna and like, you know, I

don't know how kinky people get. But then when you keep going, it's like but the slate I mean now nowadays, but in my twenties, I would have been like, okay, like I don't know. Well, I also just think it's such a slow chip away. I think people are very easy to judge. Yes, women, but like that. It's not like this guy slid into the d m S and was like, Hey, I want to eat your face off or hey I want to take your ribs out, or

I want to smash you to the ground. Like it's a very sneaky slow and listen, you're in it at that point. So then when you go thirty thousand feet it starts to you start to go like how did I even do that? Or how did I entertain that? Or how did we even get here? But you're already there at this point where he was like you know so love bombing love bombing love bombing that you're like, it's hard to get out of that situation, right, and

you actually don't even know you're in it. So I think, well, I think that's like because I'm like, I remember like this one dude that wanted to have this like fantasy that I'm my mind. I'm like I don't want those, but like I'm gonna go for because it's just a fantasy. It's not gonna actually happen. But then when it does happen, you're like, oh my god, this is not what I

actually wanted, like a board, because you're like, ropes aren't hot. Yeah, but even if it was a healthy relationship and you went along with it and then you were like, wait a minute, this isn't what I want, that person then should go oh my gosh, okay, so sorry you're not comfortable with that, let's back off. That's where this connection is missing. So that's where it's like the fantasy versus reality. And it sounds like, you know, with him, like his

fantasy has turned into this like dark seated reality. And honestly, when I was watching it, like it's so sad to see, like someone who's that um charismatic. Well, no, it's sick, you know, Like it's like it's really like it's it was sad to see because I'm like man like, but again, and I don't know, And this is one another person that like kind of someone that I had, I will say, uh, someone that I went on a date with was really into like fantasy playing, and like I was immediately like nope,

like I like again, I can't be kinky. I can be like whatever, but when you're when there are things that are not lining up and you want me to do X, Y and Z, and your fantasies ain't happening because your fantasy is. But I'm saying this because I think he is similar to the Army situation, where it's like this guy could be with anyone he wants to be with at any point at any time. Army. He

came from a multi multi, multimillion dollar family. I mean they were like his grandfather didn't want to be the great grandfather didn't want to be the president because it wasn't powerful enough like he could have been. And that's like what was one of the quotes in there, And it's like, so it's like, I think people that just can have anything they want, they don't have the capacity, like they need more, They need more of a fix they like because everything else is like, oh, just to

have sex with a random girl, like how boring? Is up? Another hot girl, another hot girl, but let me let me throw in this fantasy of what I really want to do. It's because they're so numb and the need for dominance is underlying in all of those fantasies well and in the generation too, which is like wild from like the great grandfather to his dad, like and oh god, we have this aunt in the waiting room, so let's just get her on. Hi. Oh my goodness, it's so

good just to see. I've I've been watching you. I mean I was knee deep in the screeners and watch all the episodes and I just and like to have you here. I'm just thank you so much for joining Wine Down and and being a part of the show. Oh my god, it's my pleasure. I was so honored when you wanted me to be on. I was like, yeah, okay.

I first just want to, um say, you know, you shared a lot of hard truth on on you know, House of Hammer, and UM, I'm sure you're going to be helping so many people too from the things that you've said, you know, just about sexual abuse that you encountered, and you know, just all the things that you've gone through in your life. And I just just thank you for being open, vulnerable, and I just I just want to kind of affirm you for that because I can't

imagine how hard that was for you to do. Thanks it, Um, it continues to be hard. It's it's a struggle, it's it's one thing to UM live it because it's my normal. So it's what I experienced, so I'm used to it, right, everything I grew up. But again it's it's UM shining a light on multigenerational abuse in my family and holding them accountable. It's kind of sixty two years later, I sit here before you and it's like, all right, it's

finally coming to the spotlight. And UM, it's been an interesting journey because again, seven eight years ago, I self published Surviving My Birthright, which was, as you probably know, it's a healing journal in a sense where you're writing and you're affirming what's happening to you, and and then when you're able to actually hold the book right, it was UM validating to know that it was real right, And again I controlled the narrative, and so then I

was living a very quiet life down in San Diego. And last year I was a kitchen designer at the Home Depot and one of my co workers were like, Casey, you better get on social media. Someone by the name

of this in Blonde is blowing up your life. And I just remember you, guys, I was watching it live as she Li've read my book, UM found it live read it and I was like, my life has completely changed, just like it's so out of control, like being on a roller coaster and you're doing the death drop right and you throw your hands up, thinking hopefully I stand in the car right. And so then, um, there the moment where I think the universe says, here's a situation.

How are you going to deal with it? Because at that time, to Army was all over social media and people were reaching out to me wanting a SoundBite once they found out he had an aunt, right, and so I could have taken that route and participated. And it was like, now, if people are going to talk to me, I want them to listen, and I want to be an advocate for victims and survivors. And it was kind of how can I turn this into something greater in a sense of shining a light on abuse, because it's

not just physical abuse that you see. There's mental abuse. There's emotional abuse, and it's so deep rooted that you get triggered all the time and you don't know what's happening and you know you're meant to be isolated and self blame and self hatred and all those things. And what I'm finding is if people say to me, I can see a part of my story in your story, because again and a lot of people will say my

family wasn't as wealthy as yours or dysfunctional. But when there's a butt, it's very important to spend a moment and really listen because that's people need to be heard. And I'm hoping that this long winded version of how it all kind of happened. And that's how the producers found me. They they had read my book and said they wanted to tell my story. Um, and I really

believe they were going to take care of it. And then seeing the House of Hammer and the end result, I mean again spotlighting those brave women who came forward because nowadays with social media, it's so hard and hateful and and just I take my hat off to them and everyone else that coroborated my story because I've been telling this story for a very long time, but now people are starting to pay attention. You said too in the docuseries. Really they're going to kill me? Sorry I laugh? No,

No I didn't. I um, but like where was it, like what was it in you to be like okay, like I have to do whether whether they kill me or not. Like it's just like, what was your kind of like final like breaking point to be able to share and not have that like obviously you still I don't know, do you still have fear or that they're you know, like have you talked to Michael or any of those people. I mean, you see in the House of Hammer the third episode. It kind of answers a

lot of the questions. Um, my whole life, I was threatened, and you know, again behind closed doors it was awful, and yet once you stepped out the front door, you had an image, and my grandfather controlled the narrative, so we were threatened all the time, and like, yeah, your grandfather was like watching people like that you would like date or talked to. I was like, whoa, there were pictures of the inside of my apartments that there was no way they ever came to. So it was just

very creepy. But again it was my normal. You know, if you're going to be my friend or I'm gonna date you, you're gonna be under surveillance and be recorded, and you know, you pick up the phone and you'd hear a click and you and I just became such a smarter you know, it's like high Grandpa, are you listening, you know, because it's kind of you have to find humor and a way to deal with it because back then there was no social media, so you couldn't necessarily

google how to rich people behave right, you just thought, it's my home, it's my parents. They're gonna keep me safe, no one's gonna hurt me. And yet in my book, I go into a lot more detail about, you know, how I was abused or how I was treated it. And what's interesting is people see in the house of hammer, you know, in a eleven year old holding a phone book while their father shot at them. It's that there was normal activity in my house. So again it's horrific

to a lot of people. But I just thought he would never hurt me, or my mom would never hurt me. And and it's just one of those things where again I didn't choose this, like I didn't go looking for this to happen. Um, I was kind of at peace with where my life was in San Diego and kind of accepted it. So again I knew there's a reason I'm still here, like I shouldn't be right. There were so many times I didn't want to be here, and

I self medicated and did bad things. But I'm a year and a half no medication and sitting in my emotions and like, it's a journey, it's a wild ride. And I'm here to also tell people that you know, you can't do it alone and you can find people that will help you. I mean, I learned about therapists and sliding scales. As crazy as that sounds, it's like, oh, you know, but again, people will accept they won't to

help you. And and it's so weird for me to be able to say, okay, right, it's kind of like, no, no, I'm sorry. It's just it's it's the whole. Yeah, it's weird right now, but it's good. I mean, I'm still breathing. I do a lot of yoga, I do I meditate a lot. Um do you still do you still talk

to any of the family members? UM? Up until about fifteen years ago when my mom passed away, UM, she kind of kept the fake family glue together and we all spent a week on her deathbed and we all had to kind of be in the same room and exists.

So after that we all went our separate ways and um again, I was pretty much erased from the family, and it's um something I've dealt with, you know, to be part of the Army to Hammer family and yet not have the benefits of the perks in a sense and kind of come to grips with what's my bigger

purpose for being here? Why am I here? And literally, you know last year when the zen Blonde did that, I had that Aha moment where I can really do some good and if nothing else, shine a light on starting a conversation for a safe space for people to come forward, for consent, for accountability, and for advocating for

victims and survivors. And that's kind of what I don't know what tomorrow is going to bring, but right now it's like, even if it's talking on podcasts or Ted Talks or writing another book, at least it's it's out there now and I'm not going to stop. I'm curious like knowing and watching to like knowing the men in your family. Obviously Army is in believe he's done some rehabs. Whatever do you do you think that like he can change? I mean just knowing again, like the history of of

the men in your family. Speaking from experience and how I grew up. My father was in and out of mental institutions my whole life and went to you know, rehab a million times at my grandfather's requests, so it was never his choice and he never got well, ever healed. So for me, I believe that until a person takes accountability and makes amends for what they've done and chooses to heal, it's just for image. And again, my family,

it was all about image. So when my mom left the house, her cigarettes were died to match her clothes. I mean, that's how perfect we had to be. It was crazy. It was really messed up, but again that's that's what I'm used to. So I was told, I mean, women in the Hammer family were disposable. We were ornaments in the sense. And I was told, as long as you know, Casey, you look pretty and you say the right thing and don't embarrass us, you'll be taking care

of the rest of your life. And that's pretty much. The men ruled the and my father was an only child, so it wasn't like it's a big family. I mean, there's my brother who's still alive, and then Army and his brother Victor, who were still alive and that's it. That's all that's slept. I don't remember hearing anything about Victor. Is he still, like was he involved in that? Because I'm like Victor and Melissa, we didn't hear anything of her From Melissa, I don't UM. I haven't been in

contact with them since my mom passed. UM, And I'm not sure where he's at and what's happening right now. Um. You know, last I heard the people were in l A or the Cayman Islands. It's it's still I kind of get my info probably how you guys do on you know, social media and and things like that. But yeah, we kind of keep our distance right now because too, if I live my life afraid, I'm not stupid either because I go outside and I know they're you know, I need to be careful. But again, if I let

fear control me, then they take my power. And I won't give up my power ever again. So if I can make it through today and maybe change and help a few people right with my story, and it's good, it's it's a good day. So one of the things you said in an interview that it really resonated with me was it was part of a longer quote, but you said something that just really it just sat inside of me for a minute. Was power is the drug M And I was like, well, I just I mean,

I couldn't even digest that enough. It was just so short inside of that sentence, but it made it just fit for them, especially in house of camera. It's kind of like, how how whatever reason you guys tune in to watch, or people watch, either for army or entertainment or just curiosity, by the time you're finished, you're gonna see a darker, multi generational abuse of power. And I

think that's starting. I think it started before my grandfather, but unfortunately we only had three hours to tell this story, and there's so much more that can be told. Um, but my grandfather you saw, you know, President Kennedy on the phone, all the President's royalty, I mean, you know, now King Charles. I mean, there was like all these people that were in our circle all the time, and

it was interesting to watch him control everybody. He recorded people, he blackmailed people, and that's how he ran the family also, and so did my father and brother. I mean, they all participated and that's how they saw it. And it's funny too because like my father, you know, killed someone, um, and my grandfather covered it up and said it was self defense, and my mother was like, no, he did it in front of me, pulled out a gun and

shop the guy. You know. So it's like you saw not only a crime committed, but you saw them make it go away. I mean, everybody could be bought, Everyone had a price, so you didn't want to screw up, like because you saw the ramifications of what my grandfather

picking up the phone could do. And again, it's it's it's really scary and frightening when you think about it, especially like you know, when you think about, like again, people in power, and it's like, yeah, you know, I'm like I wonder how many people this person is killed or this, you know, because they have that position of power. And it's like, oh, one thing that I thought that

this that they did really well. And I want to know if you kind of agree, is I feel like a lot of times in our world, when we dive into a story of one person, we stop at one person and so like or we maybe go like one generation over or whatever. But like to see this and I thought like even the way that they did, the visual of just showing us the family tree back and forth and from Army all the way back to your

great grandfather, right, no, your grandfather. Yeah. Um. I just thought what was really eye opening and what people need to see more of is that cycle breakers like yourself are rare, brave, rare, powerful humans. That's what you are, a brave, rare, powerful human. But we don't see how it just keeps getting passed down, Like we just we

keep dealing with what's in front of us. But what's in front of us isn't the whole truth, And what's in front of us isn't generational usually is it's there's so much generational behind everything that we're not even giving the attention or power love to to try to even figure out where this came from. Like Army came from somewhere he saw too much. Right, It's not something that you wake up and become a monster. It's something it's

a learned behavior. So it's kind of this control um and again, the power to be able to not only commit a crime, but to make it go away and disappear. I mean that's huge, right um. And it's it's something that you know, again, when I used to talk about this about my family, people would automatically assume, oh, you must have done something wrong because your family is like wonderful on the outside. Well, yeah, it's all about image.

I mean my brother, my father, my even my grandfather, even Army would walk into a room and they're this, you know, six foot two three four, good looking, personable. Like I used to always make a joke that they could all be politicians because you really buy into their image. So people love them. So if if something's not sitting right,

it was your fault. So a lot of the response I've gotten from the docuseries, from my friends or people I've grown up with is I had no idea, and it's kind of like I tried to tell you, but

you wouldn't listen. So now I think what opened up the door and all honesty is the me too movement right brought attention on workplace environment, So I say there should be me too about home too, Because just because your parents give birth to you right and say they love you, it doesn't mean they can do anything they want to you or put you in harm's way. It's

just it's not okay and it needs to stop. Um And again, it's one person talking another person talking and another person and letting them know it's okay to come forward. I mean, in the Doctor series, you seek consent is a huge topic because it's such a gray area. It's like, I'm not here to judge what you enjoy or what you don't enjoy. But the minute you say no, I'm not comfortable. Person needs to stop otherwise it's criminal. I

mean there's a line that's crossed. So again, you can't just say, oh, well, she was really into it, and you know it's her fault. She didn't live no, and that's where we need to really talk about it. I thought that too. There was a couple of the the women that he I'm gonna say, I'm gonna just say victims. So when they spoke, they you could almost tell like they had been shamed into this place of like why

didn't say no? And they even said it, well I didn't say no, but I was like, okay, but when you're running away or you're being dragged down a hallway and being sexually abused, that's what that is sexual abuse at that point, and you could just I hated it because I watched them both say, two of them, at least that I can remember say, well, you know, I didn't say no. It was like as if as if it's it's it's okay, or it's you're their fault, or you know that's not the truth, so it's and it's

not okay. And and and again it needs to Um, the people need to be held accountable. And it's the people with money and power and fame that get away with all of it or most of it because they can cover it up or silence you. I mean, it's it's fearful that you know you might be followed or threatened. And we all know that that's going on in a sense of when you are going to speak out about someone,

especially someone famous, there's probably threats all the time. And and and again, I really take my hat off to the victims that came forward because that they still deal with. I'm sure a lot of hate on social media. I mean, fortunately, Um, I think the zen blonde who outed me, who were dear friends now because she realized that she should have halfway through maybe asked me like, didn't realize what she was doing right, Um, But again back then in TikTok,

you had sixty seconds. So I laugh at her and I was like Lauren, you were you know, like caffeinated wrong. She goes, No, you don't understand. I only had sixty seconds where now you know you can talk for a while. I guess, but you know, again there are She went and blocked a lot of the haters on my DMS because I take it personally. I mean, I read everything and it means the world to me when people tell me their story or they share an experience or even

just say thank you. I mean, but then you see that one person um that maybe says bad things, and it just triggers all that you're working so hard to get through in your life and deal with. I get triggered, and it's like you go into this death spiral I call it, you know, down the rabbit hole of just like going back to being thirteen years old or eleven years old or twelve years old, and it's like, I feel like such a failure that I didn't protect little Casey. Right.

It's like, so you work really hard to try and go back visually and take her hand and you know, let's go on a walk or go to the ocean or something, goofy. I mean literally, it's like there's so many ways to to try and heal, but it's it's a constant struggle and people need to know it's not easy. No, it's it's it's not. But also I want to say to you too in the you know, thirteen year old Casey, is you know when your mom was getting hit and you saw the blood from what your father just did

to her. You know that's something too where it's like she still brought you in and there's no blame placing blame on your mom, but it's also like you know there was you maybe grew up and I'm not trying to project this just like I'm thinking of like my past is like then you're thinking like, oh, that's how it's supposed to be, and that's my worth and that's what a man should be doing to you, and like you know, and it's like I'm sure your mom would probably want to go back and take you out and

never bring you back, you know, but you know, I don't know how then she was raised her. So it's like I also know that you know it's um you you're only thirteen, You didn't know that you you know how to leave? Could you couldn't leave? The sad thing too, is that you know That's what I believed in my mind, that my mom would keep me safe and coming to grips with on her deathbed, because again, there was all this abuse going on in the house. And when I first wrote my book, I had her read it along

with everybody else in the family. Um, when I got triggered, I think it was in my thirties. I was doing a b role for victim No More right. It's in the House of Hammer docuseries and they were like, okay, Ca, so you're gonna pretend like you're getting you know, raped in the car or whatever. I was like, okay, cool,

you know, I want to be an actor. So when that when they started and my hands got held over my head, all of a sudden something kicked in of like I'm gonna die, like this is very familiar, and my body went crazy and I almost killed this guy, this poor actor, and it was like I was shaking, and I was and all of a sudden, the floodgates open and I'm in my thirties and I'm remembering all this, and I go right to my mom and I'm like, I must be crazy, right, like I'm remember and she

admitted she knew everything that was happening. So then again you go, okay, so why didn't you save me? Why didn't you protect me? And then on her deathbed, and this is where you can't change people. You cannot. It's almost like I tried for all these years. I just wanted her to say I love you, I'm sorry, I should have protected you, and you know what, that never

came out. So it's that moment where you just feel broken that no one loves you, and it's but again, it's that void, and then all of a sudden it makes sense. It's like, Okay, this is what I'm chasing. If this is what I need to work on going back, and you know it's not my fault adublet cases that I didn't protect little Casey. But it's really hard if you guys have gone through any abuse, which you know I'm not, but you know, it's so hard to rewrite that script and and and kind of love yourself. So

that's what I struggle with. But I'm getting so much better. But again, it's it's a it's a process. But if people here that you know, even someone like me raised in the family like mine, thinking that you know, everything is perfect and wonderful, I'm really I'm just as messed

up and I struggle, you know, every day. But again, if I wake up and I have my cats and you know I can write, it's just yeah, you just it's it's um, it's a have you been able to give your heart to someone and be you know, how's your relationship coming from that? It's Wait, you don't and you don't super trust me, and that's fascinating to me. I love you. I mean, now I can look back at all the men I dated or married, right, and they're all the epitome of my father and my brother.

I mean, it's like, what what was I thinking? So I'm the type I'd rather be alone and I don't do apps or any so yeah, it's like, but I still believe in the fairytale, you guys, I'm a hopeful romantic. So one day, but he doesn't need to come and rescue me anymore because I did that myself. He just needs to come and and you know, contribute to my life exactly, be a partner, and and we can travel and I'm not gonna have kids, so that's out of the you know, the story. But again, hopefully I I

don't give up. I think that one day that truly will happen. I believe the universe is going to send me someone after I get better and stronger on my own and know that it's me that's that's strong, right, Casey Yeah, I mean thank you for just your words and sharing everything and um, wow, you're an incredible human being. Yeah, these guys are wonderful. Where can I Where can our listeners you know, find you and and you know reach out.

I'm on Instagram, so Casey Hammer twenty one and then um, I'm on TikTok Casey Hammer zero, I think, um, and I'm on Facebook and also um, yeah, like again I read the d M s Um, I appreciate all the love and support. Um, it's still yeah, it's it's it's it's it's hard to put in rewards how grateful I am. But again it's it's. Um, it's just embracing the journey.

And and I don't know where it's going to lead, but I'm hoping that I can continue to, you know, speak out for victims and survivors and really open up the conversation. So you guys have helped this because I know that your podcast reaches a lot to people and I appreciate you for inviting me on. Well, we go back with thirteen year old Casey and we bring her straight up to and tell her love her and she's brilliant and beautiful. She's so honored to amend that it's

a part of your story. Um, Casey, thank you so much for coming on. We'd love to have you on again, so hopefully we can chat in the future. Okay, and thank you so much, you guys. I so appreciate you. Appreciate thank you. By oh man, that's just like she's beautiful. She's so beautiful, and it's just I'm just I'm glad that she freed herself from the trap and from the you know, like she's allowing herself to still feel love.

Like what a beautiful thing like that. She's like I still, you know, still a hopeless romantic, even after the freaking history and the pain and the abuse and like that, she's still like she's still kicking it, you know, and like I know, it's very to me. I'm like, man, like you could be like on the I'm going to remind you what she said if you ever go into

a dark hole again. But yeah, I mean she's just like everybody else, though she's still triggered by the mean d m s, you know, as brave as she's been. You know, I think everyone needs to know that people get triggered by that, you know. I mean, people need to know that we're people. I mean, like, her story is crazy and people are still just going to give her hate. You know. I hate that for her because she's been so brave and stood up for so many people.

The hate thing just drives me crazy. And that's like again, when I reached out to the one girl in the docuseries, I was like, the most hate comes from women, and that part will always forever blow my mind. Why we can't just like support other women and why hate? Why why are we hating on other women? You don't know what someone's been through, what they're going through, um, what

they went through. And it's like that part just like really just like makes me sad that, like people are just so hurtful and so mean and just like either want to compare or want to be nasty, you want to be like why would like how could you do? Why? It's like you don't know someone's you know, history, someone's just just don't know. It's like yourself right to yourself because it's just projecting. Yes, it's it's do the work join the rest of us, right, but I can. I'll

give you a code. She's got a therapist code to but really, do you know what I posted something? Darn man, I posted like something about therapy. Just again, I like to just try to help other people, you know, after I sit with it for a little bit, help someone

else know that. Like people were all just in seasons and like they're just like, oh, her therapist went back to elementary school with the chalk because she's just thrown up her hands not to do, not sure what to do with Joanna, And I'm like, man's like all in her child you had. I'm sorry, but it's fine. They'll

bleep it. But it's like it's just like man, like I find something, It's like it's I just it just makes me so now I'm like I just want to like now I'm just going to rand people's d ms and just saying just niceness, like like just being kind because as I'm like, why should get their address and Amazon Primum some sidewalk chalk they hide behind their computers. But anyways, I um casey is very strong all like that.

The whole documentary. Um Watch, it's on Believe, it's on Discovery plus House of Hammer, and it's it's sad to say. And you know, and I hope, I hope Army can get the Helpy he you know, is is I hope? I mean, I do believe people can change. I I

do do personally. Um, that is going to be a lot of I mean, that is some dark, deep, deep stuff, But I mean I do believe people can change, and I do believe, you know, and I kind of love the fact that Robert Downey is you know, I think he'd either paid for his rehab or something, because it's like, you know, he knows what it's like to be canceled and written off as a human. And I don't think I personally just don't think people should be written off

as humans. And it's like it's in church, like you know our pastor does you know, um it was in bars? Uh yeah, church and bars or whatever. It's like, you know, people can do some awful, terrible things, but like I still believe people deserve a chance to change and do better. Absolutely I agree, and a little grace along the way. That's a lot of grace sometimes. Well, I mean, so you know, it's hard like someone that I'm less a child. I don't think like you you could, you're dead to me.

So there's certain things where I'm like, you know, how much of a hypocritem I then to say that they who I don't know, his his past, you know what that person might have done to who? You know, it's a bit like, well, that's why I think it's people like he's great for somebody like Casey, because it's you're so easily canceled now. I mean, I know what it

feels like. Even I've had my own podcast and I've been afraid to even talk on there sometimes because I'm like, well, if I say the wrong thing, it doesn't just affect my career, affects my husband's career. I don't want to have to get canceled. Yeah, it's like, but then we're supposed to all connect. That's why God put us here. We're supposed to commune and connect and share stories and be with each other and be in the valleys and the mountaintops with each other. So it feels like we

are just so quick to just end everything. Yeah, well, let's be nice slide into someone's dams and say something nice. To be nice to my best friend, you put whatever you're the means of them all they say anything. All right, guys, we'll see you next week and bye.