Wind Down with Jana Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio Podcast.
Hi guys, Hi, Hello Janet, Hello Catherine.
Hi.
We had so much fun last week. So many people were laughing saying they were like dying in their car.
It was fun. Oh remember what happened last week by accident?
We were she found something on my text message.
That was fun.
Was my husband's response, Oh yeah, so listen to this.
So we go out. We had a double date last night. It was Ian Catherine and her husband Nick, and so Nick goes, I just need to bring something up at the dinner table. He goes, I feel very left out that I'm the only one that's not seen Ian's penis.
He had no idea until he listened. He saw like my little teaser on my thing and he was like, wait what. So he went listened. He came home, He's like, so you saw Ian's thing.
I was like, yeah, did you say packer? Yeah? He said packer. I don't know if we can use that word. Yeah.
That was so that's that's been like a running joke. And so at dinner last night, you know, I was like we were all laughing about it. Nick felt very left out.
It was like when it's brought up like at the dinner table.
I was like, I can't look at him, Like you can't look at Ian when we're talking about it.
You know, it's very uncomfortable. Can't get that angle out of your head.
No is he is? He in fine with it. He thinks it's all fun and games.
Yeah.
I mean he's like he thinks.
I love a confident guy.
Yeah.
He goes when I was like a podcasting to get today and he goes, have fun. You know, like what he says something like go go laugh or have fun, Like he doesn't mind that we kind of crack jokes or good because it's like he knows it's all in fun. And he you know, he said, it's it's nice to hear you laugh. Like sometimes he's downstairs when I'm recording, so he's like, it's really sweet to hear you laugh.
When we laughed that hard, you know, did he texts that day? Yeah? He was like, here are a lot of laughing up there.
I was like, oh, well, if you only knew what was going on.
Yeah.
We were talking last night though about grocery store flowers.
Oh this is there's a transition.
We were talking about last night because Iann, he's so sweet, but like there was just they were just laying on the counter and I'm like, how do I know they're for me? Like I don't know, like his mom was in town and like you know, and so, and he's.
Like who would they be for? Like who else would they be for?
And I'm like, well, I don't know, Like you know, I'm not going to like make up that they're for me, like you didn't come walking in being like here, babe, I got you flowers. He's like, well, like, but I got them for you and they're on the table. I'm like, well, how do I know they're like my mine? And then you know, and then we kind of started going in the topic of grocery store flowers.
Yeah, oh, I've gotten lots of grocery store flowers.
And I do like them to come and be like, like, you know, so Ian He then takes the so he did it again with an orchid. There was an orchid sitting there in the in the It was just really cute and I was just like, O babe, what are these and he goes, oh, yeah, I got you flowers and I was like, oh, okay.
Things.
I was like I was like I just didn't know there were for me. And that's when he goes into the whole like, well, how do you like? Of course they're for you, like this is your house and they're flowers, and I was like, I don't know, And so then he takes them and he walks and he goes, honey, I'm home and I've brought you beautiful flowers from from the store.
Here are these new beginning orchids for you. And I'm like, okay, and just tossing them on the calendar.
There might be somewhere in.
Between, yeah, like just so like, I don't know, I like, am I crazy for thinking that? I will just say, any effort is amazing, So like any that's why I think, like them just cutting him from a garden or go like, I think any flowers are great. Having said that, I still eventually, you know, will maybe once a year have the nice like.
Well, I think grocery store flowers seems like an afterthought. You're at the grocery store and you get flowers. But at the in their defense, they said, no, like you should see that I'm thinking about you. I'm at the grocery store and I got you flowers.
See that's how I see it. I don't see this. See I don't see this after I think, because like, why would you go to this grocer store to get grocery store flowers unless you remark that because you needed in that early.
It's exactly bought.
Yeah, so it's like that makes sense to me, But like they're not. They're going to the grocery store to get hummus and carrots and mistakes.
So it seems like an after No, that's.
Sweet that they're then been like, oh and now I'm going to get something for my wife, like to make her smile.
Well that's what they're were saying. But I feel like we weren't agreeing with that.
Yeah you thought it's just me?
Yeah, well we I agree to disagree. Well, pivoting to a different conversation, We've got a really cool guest coming on.
He's an author. He has a book called Love.
Unfug on Amazon today. But I'm super excited to hear his story. And yeah, it's about getting your relationship crap together. Love his patient. Love is blind until it's not. So yeah, I'm super excited to get out give it up. I'm super excited to get him on. So let's take a break and then let's meet Garry. I can't hear you.
Hello? Is that a fake English accent?
I have the worst accents ever, and I apologize. It's absolutely terrible, and.
That's good.
But I love your accent. My goodness, gracious, I've been working on a long time, been working on it a long time, Like I just like, God, do you hate it when people do what.
I just did? Yeah, that's tough.
Love love it because wait, where are you from? Originally, let's go scott Okay. So I went to a friend's wedding in port Patrick.
All right, okay, and we say it in.
This we flew into Glasgow, right, actually say it like like Glasgow.
So it's like glass Jill, let's go. I actually gave you the whole thing to you should be practicing now Glasgow.
Let's go Glasgow.
I I didn't get a chance to go to Glasgow, but I I want to go back because I tell you what that was. I mean, you know this because you're from there. But that is the most beautiful country I have ever been to.
Yeah, it's pretty stunning, and Glasgow is a great.
For Yeah, I mean it's like stunning. But okay, I want to I want to get into you know, your You're very big obviously in the self help motivational You've got your book out called love On, where like, what was your journey with relationships to get to writing those books?
Oh, So it was kind of like the other way for me. So a lot of people get into the personal development work from sorting something out in the life. Actually the other way. I I was kind of like a student of the method of like philosophy, and so I got into it that way, like trying to understand what was going on and then using that in my life, like seeing how the philosophy actually works. So the book is less based on my experience, even though there's little
bits of that in there. It's more like it's more like this kind of I feel like like a pathway for people, like a philosophical pathway, which I use in my life. I use it daily, you know, And there's nothing in that book that's not real. For me, It's all real. I use it. I thought that way, I live that way, and I'm not only say oh, that's the key to having a great relationship, but it certainly makes mine a lot more workable. Let's put it that way.
So what is the thing that you and your wife do that you think is kind of like the key? I mean, I know you said there isn't a key, but what is like a few things that like makes y'all's relationship work.
I don't expect talk to be any way other than the way she is and vice versa, Like, who the hell am I tell her the way she should be? But she's our own person, So I don't. I have no expectation of my wife. She doesn't. Just as long as she's kind of around, that's good. You know, I don't. If she's in a pessy mood or something, that's fine.
It's like that's her mood. Don't don't you know take that on?
You know, like and I don't even do that with my children. But after a lot of space for my wife to be yourself and and and authentically just be yourself, like she doesn't have to be anyway with me, And you know that's the same with her, like she doesn't. There's no like you need to be this way so that I can be this way. You need to be that way so that I can be that way. We don't have that dynamic. I'm not saying you haven't had that dynamic, but we don't have that dynamic any longer,
and that's a big part of it. It's letting go of how people are supposed to be and actually loving the person they are.
What do you think is like the biggest mistake that couples make.
That it's supposed to be fifty to fifty?
Okay, explain that.
That's an illusion. It's just how so well, if you just think of a notion, right, think it like philosophically, how that would set up? Right? Just think of like two people fifty to fifty. Mostly the way human beings work is I'm basically going to just sit and observe you and make sure you're doing your fifty. So that's
where I'm complaining. So that's when we start talking about my needs aren't being met, which is a whole other thing, by the way, because whatever needs you have as a human being are often stuff you haven't reconciled for yourself from your own past that maybe you need to do a little bit of work on, which is okay. It's
not like those things aren't real. They're real, but it just makes it really challenging when you make that your partner's problem, like something they've got in now, you know, it's not that it can't work with it, through it, or support you with it or anything like that. Of course they can't. But when they have to start, you know, like twisting their arms through the back of the leg and stuff to try and you know, meet you where
you are, you're just going to constantly. I mean, that's going to be the place where you're going to your your relationship's going to live and die. So to be in a relationship requires you to kind of be introspective a lot of the time, which is sometimes challenging because we live in a dynamic of blind you know, so we live in this or you did and then I didn't. And like I said, it's not like I'm walking about on air. I've had that relationship that was terrible. It
was horrible and it didn't work. It just didn't work. It was unworkable. It was constantly or you need to no, no, no, I did, and then you need to. So we just end up in this. Your relationship becomes more of a judgment and observation than actually, what is it that makes this thing work or could make it work or make it work? Great for you.
It's good. I like that.
So then what do you need to do?
Then? Yeah, it's really at the beginning, it's kind of confronting, you know, it's in fact, it's very confronting because you start to see all the things you have been doing that make it not work. It's hard to see yourself in the dynamic of a partnership because their eyes are on you and your eyes are on them. It's really
hard to see yourself. You're too busy defending yourself, you know, and your little bit of territory, you know, and and again, you know, like that's why a lot of the kind of advice and stuff that's out there about it is organized around that. So it's all about tips and tricks on how to make this kind of territory thing work. And it's never I mean, I believe anyway, Like all the good transformational work you do, all the kind of work you do on yourself as a human being, they're
really good. Stuff is really hard, Like it's not easy, you know, it's just not. But it's so worthwhile. It opens up so many pathways for you, so many realizations, so many like oh my gosh, because you know, whether we like it or not. It's human beings. When each of us is around life has a certain flavor. You know, we're not a blank canvas where something right and we'll be much something. And it would be a little naive to think that that's something isn't playing out in your
relationship in a negative way. M hm.
So you basically then are just focusing on yourself.
Absolutely, you have to. You have to. You have to, like if you at least to get your get your kind of feet on the ground, like you know, to get yourself set about what this thing's about. There's no guarantee you that that will make your relationship work. And I actually talk about that in this book, to actually talk about how to split up right, which seems like
the antithesis of every relationship book but not mine. But I wanted people to really understand, like you have to get your feet set about you, who you are, what you're about, how you'll undermine, how you'll how you'll sabotage what's good and and then like starting company turns with if you think of our relationship right, like there's it's kind of like a spoking and unspoken agreement between two people, right, So there's things that when we're in a relationship, we
don't necessarily have to talk about that, but we both know that that's a now right. There's things like that, right, and then there's things that we've talked about. But what we never do is is deal with the agreement that we're going to have to make with ourselves because we know what we do right. We know like, oh yeah, this is the thing that I'll get and that won't
go well, and we try and overcome it. So in the book, I talk you through like there's a point where you have to get to the agreement with yourself, and when you're there, you're actually grounded and able to make an agreement with somebody else. You're actually in a spot where you can say, you know, I can actually I can do this right. It's not like oh God, all things out. It's really about can I get yourself
settled down? And it's not pollyannish like those bets in the book, But I just say, if your relationship fundamentally doesn't work and you need to face that truth, you stop pretending and come to terms with that.
So that's something that I was going to bring up to you because I have a lot of I got divorced last year. Yeah, and you know, I have a lot of people reach out to me saying like when
did you know enough was enough? And it's like, yeah, I went through seven years of just back and forth hell and trauma and abuse and you know, affairs, and it's like it's so hard because when you hear someone saying that they're going to change and they're gonna be a different version, it's it's hard to not be like, well, shoot, I don't want the next person to get the change version that I've like waited for. And then like after so many times, it's like it's so hard to leave.
But I feel like when you do leave, like that is when you truly start to notice like oh wow, like that wasn't normal or now I've you know, I feel lighter here, Like you don't realize how much like weight the relationship is like holding on you.
Yeah, I mean, you'll get a lot of relief for sure, Right, But if you just use your example there, which is a bant example because that's exactly what people cited themselves, you have to get through this process of convincing yourself and then there's a point in that when you realize that's convincing. It's just bs, right, but that's not true. Just about relationships. This is what people do in life, right, We tolerate, we put up with because we feel as if we can.
Overcome it, yeah, or we can change it, you know, we're capable of changing someone's choices and behaviors.
There's definitely a part of that. But if you look in the background of the white people work, if you can, I get, you would think, well, this is I'm in something right now that's terrible for me, right, like this is terrible. What you're really more afraid of is the alternative long Ye, it's like that, right, like whatever that is, which is a fundamental fear for people. It's a fear of the uncertain, right of the unknown, because you're exposed
and you're vulnerable and you can loose. You know, people
hate that experience. So by and large, people will stay in situations that fundamentally do not work for them for a little more than the knowledge that at least they know it, and they'll grind that up like sometimes like in complete messity, right, in complete mesity, and you have to get like the kind of internal noise that one has about that and yet in it it's a lot of convincing, it's a lot of yeah button, it's a lot of you know, well you have to really you know.
So it gets complex, and that internal noise, it gets complex, it gets layered. It takes a while before you're kind of like, whoa wait a minute here, now this is not good for me. This is and you know, tell a lot of what I do with people is provide them, but they cannot work and they kind of think and that lets them if that's the kind of situation that I they'll get to that realization. Quicker certainly, queer.
Yeah, that's that's so hard. But you're so right.
Like I remember, you know, when my friends are all like okay, Janna, like enough is enough. The alternative is like, well, I don't want anyone around my kids, and you know, I don't want to have to split holidays and I don't want to be alone, and no one's gonna who's who's who the heck's going to want to be with me.
I've got two kids, I'm divorced, Like you know, there's all this like I don't want to be alone forever, and I think those fears are and I'm like, I don't want to date, I don't want to like And mostly it was, you know, ninety percent of it. When I'd say eighty, it was like, you know, no, no, ninety like not being with my kids, you know, and just like someone else being around them, and like that alternative sucked. But I mean, you're right, it's like you
just have to realize. And I don't know, do you do you like the quote when when people say like they're showing you who they are, so believe them or now.
I think I think we're all. Look, here's what relationships do, whether we like it or not. This is what's so when when you get two people together, whatever's on resolved from their own past is going to come up. It's coming up, and you can't. It's like trying to keep a beach ball under the under the water. You can't, right, So whatever you haven't resolved for yourself. I talk about this in the book. Most relationships start out as a
solution is something for the people involved. So it's a solution is something and and and the vast majority of the time it's some personal item with themselves that they've never quite been able to resolve. That they see this other person and it seems to fit. It's like, oh my gosh, that's why we talk about the one because of something about it. Then that takes care of this whatever this is currently missing. Once you get relationship, you
realize that it's not filled at all. That thing isn't taken care of If I it's still there, but it's now going to play out between two people. You know, whether we like it or not. You know, we're we're very much driven by what's in the background of our mind's not what's in the foreground. That's why determination couldn't see you through that like it couldn't because quote unquote the truth will out right and it's an unresolved truth.
In relationships, people will do really really really three things, but just really three things. They'll do them from my perspective, and then the work that I deal it would be really easy just for me to go, well, that makes you a terrible person, and no, I tend to look at like, wow, how come you ended up there? Like what the heck happened that you landed on that spot.
And that's how you see life, and that's how you treat people, and that's how you interact with others, and that's how you handle things like love and trust and you know, and integrity and loyalty and like whoa, you know, I'm fascinated by that because we're not we're not fully conscious of how we end up where we're at. We just know we're there. And that's not to you let anybody off the hulk or make excuses for people. It's
not about that at all. Fact, you know you're going to have to deal with yourself and deal with the consequences of not only who you are but who you've been. But at the same time, you know it's it's it's definitely a fascinating thing when when you actually track back in your own life and see how the heck because with no clear with no clear direction or our head like I'm just going to be this kind of person and that kind of person, we just kind of weaver
way through it. And a lot of our work is doing that with people, is having you fundamentally profoundly connected to your own machinery in a way that that actually resonates with you and gives you the powerty and make different choices in your own wife.
What like now, Okay, so now that I'm in I'm in a new relationship. Now do you do you ever tell anyone like these are certain red flags to look out for in a new relationship.
Now that's that's a red flag.
Asking about a red flag because it's about you or not the other one.
That's what you're saying.
You have to think about yourself, talk about yourself.
That's a red flag. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you a big problem you'll have. You won't have to tell you this, but thank god we're talking. This is what an awful lot of people do. They use the last thing is some can attempt for the next thing. So whatever the last thing was, it gets to live on here and it gets to live on Like you, you'd always find an evidence. And this is part of the work you do with yourself. Like am I getting a clear look at this? Or is this some can
I call it in from the past? That's at play here. What what you'll rastle with at the beginning is something called trust right. And again in the book what as what is trust right? What is it? And when you trust somebody, what are you looking at? What are you lying on? And when they ask you to trust them, what are they relying on? Which is not the same they're lying on something else. So if I say to you, trust me, I'm saying that to you, and I've got
a certain gauge for what that is and isn't. If you're somebody who's listening to that, you're playing a different set of rules when it comes to trucks than I am, even though we are talking about the same thing. So that's why you get in complete with the past is so important for all human beings. When I say getting complete, just getting settled with and how you can tell you're settled with something as the zero emotional attachment to it, like nothing right, and you can get there right, it's
not rocket science. You can get there. It's a process of acceptance and letting go of judgment and you know, kind of getting somebody's humanity without necessarily it's not again, it's never about letting them off the hook. It's never about in fact, they had nothing to do with the dynamic of blind it's a it's somebody who's interested in having something be complete in such a way that you can move on. Now your new relationship should be all about what you're creating.
Well, you see that's where I'm like, We're like, because you brought up a good word like sabotage, because I have tried in the beginning to sabotage it just because I'm like, yeah, I just got a relationship where I couldn't trust a man, or like of course, I'm like, of course this new man's gonna cheat and lie and be you know gas you know, gaslight and have mean words like of course, Like it's all sweet now the honeymoon phase. I'm like, you're gonna end up just doing
the same thing. And he's like you can't. He's like, I'm not your ex, and I'm like, well I don't know that, right, and then I just sabotage it. And then he's like stop trying to push me away.
Right, So when you so, I'll use again. It's a really common thing, right, So it's more human than you would think, right, It's not necessarily you. It's more like, this is what human beings do. But if you look at like the things that you say, right, of course you're going to do this, and of course you want
to do that. Of course you want to do this, and then you're going to do like this because like everybody else and dead that that and that moment when you're saying those things, what way would you say you are? You're being what bitchy? Yeah?
Okay, go ahead, And I'm protecting myself, like I think think, I'm like I'm justification.
You got to watch that. You can't no, you can't go here.
Well I don't think I'm like deserving of it too. So it's like because of my past historical Well yeah.
It's like psychological. It's very psychological. You'll end up in a tunnel. You just got to look in that moment you're being cynical, okay, right now, and this relationship with this person, and that moment you're being cynical. So now you're going to get the results called cynical.
I got a Google syncal because like I know the word, but I don't actually know what it means.
Right, It's kind of like it's kind of like this messive and like you no matter what somebody does or said. So I was like, yeah, but you don't you know seconds and it's a fundamental state for all of us, of the various things. But in that moment, when you're being that way to your partner, you're now being cynical, right, even though you would profess to say I love you right now, I'm being cynical. So I'm bringing sentences of the table, which again, okay, that's fine as long as
you know that's what you're bringing to the table. See what you were going to say was here's why I'm cynical. That'll actually make no difference in the quality of your relationship. Understanding that you're being cynical will make a difference in
the quality of your relationship. Now, you might have concerns, you might have worries, you might have things on your mind, you might have fears, and it would be entirely appropriate for if they're there for you, if your partner's open to you having that kind of conversation in that moment, that you would be able to vocalize those but more like, here's what's rattling around in my cage, rather than yeah, but you you understand the difference, like I'm getting like,
this is what I wrestle with as a human being, right, like I'm being And it's important that you understand what you're wrestling. It's importantly you know, like you know, yeah, wrestle with that, Like that's a thing for me. Now I'm going to offer you something for you personally are you are you owing for me to give you a please?
And all any and all?
All right, all right, there's some unresolved thing that you are but being loved and lovable from being a kid. Yeah, And I don't know who it was, but you had that can experience like you're just not loved or known they're appreciated something like that.
Yeah, for sure.
That's a bit manifesting over and over and over and so manifest in the ways and the people you choose to share your life with and that in some ways, but in in other ways. If someone shows up in your life who's not that way, you'll diminish their love for you, m because they can't coexist with what you fundamentally believe to be true. Does that make sense?
It does? Yeah. Right.
I don't want to sound like I'm some kind of freaking psyde kick or something, because I'm not. But I do want you to know like we are very much driven by what's in the background of our thoughts, not but what's in the for not by a logic. There's like a there's like the logic, you would say, and then there's the logic that drives here. Right, So as
uncomfortable as it as to hear. Any relationship you've been in has been no accident, right, It's been something you've been Whether you're conscious of us or not, doesn't matter. It's something you've been a vilable for, even though you might not want it. Yeah, you're a vilable for it. So I would invite you to try on that the work that if I were you, that i'd be interested in dealing would be like get into the heart of that experience yourself not being loved mm, because that that's
what will cause more damage than anything. In fact, I would assert has caused the most damage with you.
Oh for sure.
I mean that's one thousand percent. I mean even to this day, like you know you love no. I mean it's so true because even to this day, it's like I'm still trying to get the love from my ex husband who hates me, you know, and.
I'm like, well, why do you hate me?
You're the one that ruined us. Like I'm still trying to get love from people that you know, But it all comes back to my father because he left and I was in love, you know, like the little girl, and like I know, I know all that, but I can't don't.
Now you don't, No, you don't.
But I know it, but I don't believe that, like I am love.
So it's like when you laugh.
When he laughed, right and your dad laugh Yeah, all right, you're ready. I'm like rocky now, all right, so so put your freaking seat belts. So I'm all right. So how old were you when you left?
Well, he started to be absent when I was five, but he officially left the family when I was thirteen.
All right. And then between the ages of five and thirteen would he come and go.
Yeah, I just felt like he was always angry and I would want to like have that like dad dad, but like he never answered me back, and so it just felt like a because he wasn't really like and now we have a great relationship, but I just he wasn't present, and I just he was always very angry, and I.
Was scared of him.
What did you make that mean?
Oh, that I'm not a good girl, that I'm not worth it, I'm not lovable, I'm.
Not too You got to sit with me a minute, You got to think for a set.
Uh huh.
It's too flippant, too flippant.
So I need you to be with me for a moment, could just be with i'ment. I want you to kind of put yourself back then, like just less your thoughts go back to some of those incidents, because some of them are more wives than others, Like I remember the time when right, You've got a couple of those in mind, right, Yeah, why you have those in mind, by the way, because they were pederl So you have a memory of that moment, but you also have all the emotional attachment to that
moment and it's still here. So if I talk to you about that moment you start to share with me that moment, all of those experiences will be right. You feel like you're there right as it falls out of your mind. Yeah, so I want you to kind of recollect one of those moments. You don't even have to
tell me, Okay, that's when you recollect the moment. It can be in the presence at the moment, like that moment that you demand Burner when he and you and the earliest one you can remember, just the first one like yeah, I was probably blah blah blah, and we were sitting or standing or you know, where were you and what do you demember about? What was going on around here, and he said that, and you had said blah blah blah. And in that moment, what did you say to yourself?
I'm not safe?
Okay, yeah, good job, which still rattles around in your case. That's why you're so independent, hm mm hmmmm mmm mm hmmm, fearfully and dependent. You're not easy to love. Now, you're hard to love because yourself robust sofa you know, so if you're a challenge for somebody to love, and yet your fundamental complaint is I'm not loved. I'm not safe, I'm not loved. Do you know how I knew that was the words that you said, I'm not saying Do
you know why I knew that was it? Because it's not sophisticated, simple, That's what a kid would say to themselves. Now you see how like right now you're your child. You get that you're doing great. You're doing great. Letter all up, Let letter that shut up. It's good. This is good stuff for you.
Oh, I just I just hate it because I don't want it to ruin, Like I don't want to not be lovable, because that's all I want is love.
That's all the independence, that's all the independence. Talking right now, let it just let it be, don't wrestle with it, just let it be. Just let it be. Let it be itself. You don't have to make that be any other way than the way that it adds mhm. See. The wrestling with something like that is actually what keeps in existence. So if I keep wrestling with it, I'm not enough. I'm living a life if I'm not enough.
If I let it be itself, if I give it a little better room for itself, I'm not defined by it. So that this is the sort of work that you need to do. You need to, You need to You need to kind of do that work to can appeal back some layers and deal with your own sentence. See that's why my relationship book it's not about can get along with somebody else, that's part of it. But it's like, who is in this relationship? Well, and your relationship is I'm not safe, so back the off. That's who's in
your relationship? Yeah right, And it's being in your relationship and it's pushed people away who said they dead love your right, So then that's out and what and then and then but again it's funny, this is the kind of cycle of I don't listen. My second book book was called why is not That? That was my favorite. It was called stop doing that and up break down, Like what your self sabotaged is really all about what it actually is doing and why it does what it does.
And unless you fully understand that, you'll just live a life of being run by it. It'll run you and you get so focused on your circumstances that you won't see what's running it. So if you think, like if my internal mechanism, so part of mine is I'm not smart enough? Mhm, right, that's part of my internal mechanism. I'm a New York Times bestselling author and my internal mechanism is I'm not smart enough. So I had to really recognize what was a play in my life before
I could ever even write a book. But that never goes away. It comes up, That shows up, and it starts to can influence my decisions and my thoughts if I don't take responsibility for it, because it'll it's again something from when I was a kid that I learned that I would now have to overcome to make it in this life. You get why it's there. It's more survival than they'd like to imagine. Yeah, but the background noise,
it's not you, it's automatically what's there with you. Why you got moved by that is because you started to see, really see what that life has actually been like for you, the life of that noise. And that's what you have to start really understanding, like what you're sentencing yourself. It's not about finding the right person, it's about finally coming to terms whether one you've become. M hm, I as
certains human beings can love anybody. I've got T shirts that I love, like authentically, I love it like I you know, I do, like I get objects, you know, like guitars, and you know, like I love that thing I do. And of course I love my wife and I love my children dearly. But at the same time, it was a struggle for me growing up was being able to say it, like I couldn't get a in
math ins. I to reinvent myself in my forties to become a loving man, because if I looked at who had been like if you look in your relationship, you're being cynical, right, and you're being cynical a lot more than you think you are. And in those moments where you catch yourself being cynically, You're like, hold on, man, this is I want this to be a loving right now, I said i'd be loving, and I'm going to do I'm going to deal with this in a loving way,
not a cynical way. You're already interrupting those patterns. You're already changing your pathway. And for me, when I when I when I really started to be taking myself home like that, it was expressing my love to people, taking the time look them in the eye and say I love you. And it was weird at the beginning, you know, it was weird as I felt as if somebody had taken over my body. No, it's gonna I know.
It makes me practice hugs because I don't.
Right, No, that's fine. To break down some of your default what and not going to feel the philosophy ontology, It kind of breaks down some of your default ways of being and acting, so you're actively breaking them down. Therapists call it cognitive behavioral therapy, but it's been around for about two thousand years. Anyway, Stoic stomics were doing it, but but behaving in ways that are more consistent with who you would say you are and the absence of
the feelings for sure. So it it's doing in the absence of feeling. So some things I might feel cynical, but I catch myself like, oh, I'm doing that's thing that I get, and I'm about to make this relationship about that too. I'm going to love this person. And I might even say, listen, this is awkward for me. That is not I am not comfortable right now, and I think we should we should probably hug right, Like
that's you dealing with yourself. Yeah, And by the way, if you start acknowledging things like that, that's one of the very few times in your day when you'll actually be being authentically you mm hm, instead of the you that you've kind of build up to try and make it in this life.
I have like one last question that just came from you know, me saying that I didn't feel safe when I look back on my relationship with Max's husband or any relationship that was really my longer ones that they were all abusive and I was so unsafe in those and the other ones I pushed away.
So what is that is that, like you have to you have to prove it true there justify to justify your centicism.
Ye, there you go.
Wow, you have to prove it as accurate. Then you can justify being independent.
Ye. I know you're going to hit me because I'm not saying.
Here we go again, this is why I'm independent, senecal. So ultimately, that's kind of like what all human beings are driven to do is to prove what you've subconsciously concluded to be true. So they prove it and then they overcome it, and then they prove it, and then they overcome it, and then they prove it and overcome it, and they prove it, they overcome and then they can die yep, God, and then they call it a life. Until you nead so many my books and you're like,
what the what am I doing? Stop? I want to go off. This is BS. I want to do something else. I want to be somebody else. And I say, you can be somebody else. You can actually be someone else, but you have to fully see, acknowledge and take responsibility for who you've been.
Come first, damn Gary tricking laying the gaun.
I just I am obsessed with you.
Thank you, it's so much. I'm going to read Loves and every other book right now. I'm going on Amazon immediately, and so is everyone that's listening right now. Awesome, But thank you. I appreciate your words and I appreciate you grounding this conversation.
So thank you.
Yeah, you're welcome, And I just want to thank you for your generous in sharing yourself with so many people, because you know, when somebody does that, when you kind of get a vulnerable it makes a difference for lots of people. And so you can sit there knowing that you got a load of something for yourself. But at the same time, like you should know that there's people out there who just got rocked by what you shared and how you shared it, and you're inspiring people to
take themselves on and change their own life. And you know that takes a lot, you know, because in this format and doing what we do right, there's a lot of looking good and there's a lot of like, you know, having to keep your together and and I say, for Black, you know, like admitting you don't have your together is the new having your together.
Amen that Gary, Well, thank you so much, Mabe. I appreciate it, and we'll have you back.
On for sure.
So thank you, welcome, Thanks for having me.
Okanks, all right, bye, Gary, I'll work on my accents, don't worry.
Thank you, By my god, Wow, I love him.
My kind of like just therapist, like, oh I loved it. I just like because I had to prove it over and over that I wasn't safe.
Yeah, it's like you that is true.
You had to prove it true.
And then I'm like, yeah, wow, because we've.
Always kind of wondered like what is that? Like why does that happen?
Yeah?
And it's wow.
I just like how it is because I'm trying to go that way in therapy anyway now. But it's like really just looking at yourself, not why are things in this relationship doing this?
Why?
Like, and that is just it's powerful because if you just own yourself and take care of yourself.
And not what's Nick doing wrong or what's this person doing wrong?
Or who you know?
Yeah, and we're all cynical.
Like when he said that, I was like, yeah, I know about myself.
Yeah he rocked me.
Rocked.
I mean that was just but like, but now it makes sense why I chose those types of people over and over again, Like because I'm proving that I'm not safe anytime up Yep, I'm not safe.
I told you, I told myself. Yeah wow, Jana, good job, you really proved it to yourself. Good on your girl, Yeah you too.
Good All right, Well I'm just golblow my nose now, so I'll see you guys next week.
An