Swine Down with Janet Kramer and i'm Heeart Radio podcast.
I hate stink and I'm so sorry right now, I'm just glad you stink. Will see who outstinks each other.
I'm me tell you about four.
I'm glad this is an audio. Let me tell you about forty and hormones. Yeah, how is forty? It's like great, it's great. I promise, come on, come, come, come, come, come with a kick drum. Come come, Janna, come come and the kick drum. Come come. It's just the hormones. Sorry, I had to Okay, the hormones, like which hormones, all of them just they're all out against me. Yeah, it's just like the sweat. I just feel like I have never and maybe it's just after Legend because I was
your three year old son. Yep, Jason, Legie, you are about the same age, which is same with Julian Love. Yeah, we really have a mating season, don't we. We did? We did ship was sailed? Yeah, since I had him, I just feel like I'm but I've also tried natural deodorance and those don't work for me. I feel like like bad, here's my thing, and I I really you know, I've I've talked about I think it was every gosh, what's that one natural one I've I've tried a few
and they have worked. But I just stink. No, you don't, no, no, I do like I need the Have you always been stinky? I like my mom's stinky, Like I love you, but you know, I think I like I just have like a like and my eggs used to always be like refreshing. I needed something to be always would be like and I'm like, hey, that's hurtful. He just looks so hot all the time. I need you to stink once in a while. Leave for the rest of the America to
see saink creamer. It's like when you dig in my head and you're like, is there a weave in there? And I'm like, no, it's all I've got. Please just leave me alone. I'm just very envious of like thick and full hair. I'm envious of you. Well anyways, but I apologize. I just got off a plane, so it's a little had a show. You had a show. I'd like to see you out there doing what you're meant to do. Honey, good for you. It was fun. By the way, this is Kristen Brust. She's a local guest.
I mean a local guest, an avid guest. I would to say that on wind down. Reoccurring reoccurring, Yes, a reoccurring guest, Ankle, you are local to my heart. And she's so sweet. She wrote me the cutest little sticky note you were stronger than ever. And she wrote these adorable little sticky notes all over my house because she's just she's a gem. Well, I'm here for you, Kramer. You're stronger than ever. You're so sweet. Hi, Mark, I haven't seen you in a minute. Hi, Janna, Hi, how are you Ben?
I'm good.
Yeah, it was good. It was it was a very transformation. That's not the right word. No, it's a very it was a shift opening mm hmm. Is that good?
Yeah?
Pivotal, pivotal, Yeah, pivotal, pivotal. We're throwing big words at her, and I like pivotal. You know it's good. I will say, I signed up for this retreat. I don't want to say where it's at, but I'm so excited. I know it's long, right, it's a week. I want to go. I'm I've never been more excited. You should be. That's a really that's like a I don't have you ever done a week by yourself? Just chilling, focusing on yourself.
So I I wanted to. You know, it's really interesting is after my divorce, I was just kind of like I'm good, Like I knew I wasn't good. Yeah, but like I think I was. Oh, I've been doing it for so long, and then I just kind of wanted to like put band aids on it.
Well.
Sure, also survival, Sure to say you're good. You had kids to think about? Oh yeah, but I think there was But I did this. Did you see him? Oh? And you're so sweet. You're such a good friend. You totally edited my caption. Oh I did because I said steam and nuts stream and you're like, hey, best friend, put an R and stream. I was like, it's too good of a post. I was like, this is captivating,
but I do see an error in line fifteen. If you could just throw an R in there so that everyone doesn't throw rocks in their steam, and then it's gonna I think it's going to really move mountains. This place is really going to help some people. Yeah, So I but I did that, and I tell you what, there were so many things that I was holding onto that I didn't even know I was holding onto. Is this the one you told me that Amy might do with me? That will be amazing?
Yeah.
I mean she made me write on rocks like what I was still holding onto from my past, and I put him in the stream at Sarah's house or like you know, on her land, and it was like insane, like the weight that I felt lifted off of me. It was really incredible.
It's I mean, to Saravirise his house with all my rock.
Yeah, I'll be like enjoying my peaceful like.
Tossing it being stone.
I'm like building a damn. Oh yeah, but that's yeah, yeah, okay, but I'm really excited. It's gonna be fun. Yeah, it's gonna be really good for you. I think, what do you do? So it's like this, it's this place where you I can read you the thing. It's pretty amazing, basically, I will say this. It's a place where I think for a long time, I have stayed in things because I thought that I deserved it, and I have I
have made I have How do I say this? I've I've stayed in things because I thought I deserved it. I stayed and it was it was all a mirror of how I thought of myself, like what I thought I deserved, and I think it's realizing like I deserve so much more than that. And but I but I
it's like I need. And someone told me a really good friend went to this and he was just like he said, it was an amazing place, and just like to really just love yourself because then that's when you're gonna find, you know, and that's when you're gonna really attract what you know, healthy And does that make sense? Yeah, Like I feel like that's the end of the podcast. So it's been great chatting with you that I can.
But I mean, truthfully, that's it.
Like what I keep saying to you is you're like true, like you are stronger than ever. You're getting more whole than you were before. Like the focus on health is what you're really working on. So things that or even people that came into your life a year ago or six months ago or those people may not even fit anymore because you've transitioned into a more whole and healthy
human along the way. Yeah, and also realizing, like if I see things that are going to bring up my past, trauma, Like why am I Like, that's just not healthy for me to stay. No, you know, and you know, and that's the thing, like I think a healing because I'm always going to be healing, and I think there was a piece of me for sure that like I always it's like, well, I ever get over my ex. I'm over my ex. I'm over your ex for sure, Like
that's what you're wondering. Yeah, And it's like I don't want to keep it's not I'm not I don't want to keep talking about my ax, like I want to help it. I want to be a voice of like this is how I got through really tough seasons, whether you want to stay or whether you want to leave. But I've forgiven him, like through this last like few weeks, Like there's something that it's like when I release that, I was like and I saw this thing where it's like I don't need to carry that anymore. No, and
it's like I forgive him. I wish it like and it's like there's like this really amazing feeling that I'm like and I don't have to hold on to it anymore. And the people around you should be supporting you in the letting go, yeah, and not you're not that person, and so they don't. You don't get to be stuck in that relationship anymore, and no one gets to verbally, physically whatever it is, keep surrounding you with the old
memories or like. But it was also me though too, like I for sure was like I've talked about it all the damn time. Yeah, well he's still very you have kids, I think, yeah, And like they always say, like healing isn't linear all of that, Yeah, but I think it was just just going through it's like hard season. It's like you almost have to. I realize now it's
like you you really need to. I don't know, because it's like still I still don't I say that, but I'm gonna like I'm not even gonna finish my thought because I feel like you, I think I'm always going to have what quote unquote baggage. I'm always going to have trust issues, I think. I don't. I don't know if that'll ever go away. That's not do you know what I mean? I think it'll go away. And if someone ignites my trust issues, that's going to be I
can't stay in that. And I you know, like that's something that I know now that it is not healthy for me to stay in something that causes me to like yeah, backtrack, backtrack, or feel like I'm you know, being the same thing. But I also but I also think I've let my Sorry, I think I've I've been so afraid to let love in. And I think it's
because I didn't love myself. I'm watching from my seat, you trusting yourself more, and that's when I think you'll be able to lean into people a little more because you'll trust yourself. Yeah, because no matter what, the bottom falling out just means you're back with a person that you trust, which is you. It's less intimidating.
Yeah.
But I also don't want to push people away though either, you know. But there's a reason I think why I push certain people away. There's a gut need to be pushed, there's a gut thing, or there's a whatever, there's something that I'm not listening to and staying ground and end
communicating that from a good place. Yeah, And I think that's the work that like I just had like just light bulb moments with our our therapist Amy and just letting go of like my my like letting go of those rocks, letting go of the like it was just it still sucks, like of sure, of course, but I'm like, I don't I do I forgive them, I forget like it's it's a it's so nice to just feel it's lighter.
It's so much lighter. I know. So in a roundabout version, I'm going to this place just to to cement it, like I'm cementing what I've learned the last few weeks. I'm excited for you to be alone with yourself for me too. And then you have to give your phone away and they're like, is that a problem? I was like, I will throw it at you, like here, take it good? Yeah. Do we get to write you letters that you need to read while you're there, like camp send you like
a snack pack and a letter. And I'm so. I was talking to Shanna Burgess, She's so sweet. She reached out to me because she was saying that she you know, she went to when it was life changing. So I'm I just I'm really excited because now I feel like all it's it's sad that I've realized it now, you know, I've had to kind of walk through certain stages of things. But it's nice to go Okay, I'm really happy to be right here and I feel like finally I'm kind of on the not the other side, but I'm I'm
I'm really like tapping into it. Yeah, you just keep elevating along the way. Yeah it feels good, it does. But you're also getting cozier with yourself along the way. Yeah, I do, Like, yeah, we don't. Well, you are, you're a good person. You should cozy up with yourself once in a while. At my core, I'm a good person. Right at your core, you're a great person. Thank you, And you're a healthy person. You just have to give
yourself some time. Yeah, and I don't want to. I don't ever be like defined by like, oh, she's got a lot of issues. It's like no, I I everybody in freaking America has issues. That's why people are listening. It's true. People are just tru Yeah, we all have issues. The thing is this, like everyone just feels like we have to be like ashamed of that. It's like the minute you give it light, it can't breathe anymore. It's perfect, you know, Like my marriage is not perfect all the time.
Oh I amen, anybody. Yeah, the whole church, just that. I mean, did you hear them? Like, do I know? I am going through a little phase with myself right now where I'm just like I need to talk better to myself. I'm hard on myself. So we're just we're all just trying to do stuff. Yeah, And I found myself too, like when I don't love myself, I get I'm not nice to like no, and it's like that's not who I am. No, that's not whoever like I'm
that just that's not who I am. I also think there's certain people that don't bring out the best in us too, and it's not their fault, like it doesn't have to be well, they bring out the triggers and the like the drop and then then it's like, well, well that's not who we are. But then that's a cycle, that's just a yeah, and at the core, it just
may not be a match. Like I was am divorced before, had a previous husband before my current husband, and I he's a fine person, he just he wasn't my person, you know, like a good dude. And I at some point was like he is just not going to go live his best life because I'm never gonna let him m hm, because that's who I am when I'm with him. I need him to be like a cheerleader and you know, and he just was young, and I'm like, dude timing too. I think that people need to come together at the
right time. Yeah, yeah, the two thousand and eight version of me is like, oh, same season. Yeah, twenty fourteen was hit or missed too.
So the point of you don't want to be known as the person with issues. There's a study recently that one of the best things people want to see in a dating app or when they meet somebody. One of the most appealing things about somebody in the first date is to find out that they're in or have been in therapy, because I think the most desirable people are the ones that realize they have issues and are working
on them, which is where you are right now. That's a great place to be because so many people live in denial of their own issues, refuse to face their own issues, and those are the people that you need to stay away from, and unfortunately you've spent some time with. But those are the best people, the ones that understand it, because we are all messed up in our own ways and the ones that get that and are working on that, those are the people that you want to be with.
Ownership is hot, Mark, Ownership is absolutely And that's the thing, like I've kind of always said, like I don't have the prettiest past, Like I have felt so much shame about my past, and it's like I don't want to carry it. I don't want to have to like feel that. And it's like and I will never judge a human
being for you're going to make me cry. This is us as we describe it, Like I will never judge a human being for anything they do in their past because I give an immense amount of grace to people. I mean to the point where Sarah the other day was just like you give so much grace and you give so much like room and space. Yeah that like it's almost like too much in a way where it's
like it's now people will take advantage of you. But it's like I just want honesty, Like if I ask you a question about your past, just be honest, right, Like don't be loop holy, Yeah, just be honest. And I think it's like and just with and I'm talking I'm not talking about relationships I'm talking like friendships and just like and just having that like you said, like the having the depth and the awareen of like who you are as a person, like you know, doing the work.
And I know some people hate that term, but it's like it's it's there's no perfectly healed person. No, there's everyone has their stuff and it's just not bringing out the worst, but also like realizing, you know, triggers that come along the way, and I don't know, it's just I think it's I finally did sit down with myself and say, I was so shameful about divorce, the most
shameful I could be. I was shameful about relationships before that too, because I cared about what people thought so much that I was like, you know, a failed relationship for an EmPATH is like it might as well just be like first degree murder.
It's like it just feels like that.
It's like, if I've failed at connecting with another human for the rest of my life with one human, then I might as well just be like what's my worth, you know, and what does it say about you?
Yeah?
You know?
Yeah? And then I remember just getting to a point where I was like I am so tired of being shameful because I just freaking love hard. Like when I decide I am going to be with a person, I decide and it is just like aggressive, you know. It's why I'm on your couch right now. When I decide, it's like forever and I that's not a bad thing. In fact, the world could use a few more of us,
I feel like. And so instead of it looking like a shameful past me, it was just like, you know what, I would rather love the wrong people and try really hard or love not They're not bad people, but just the wrong people for me and at least gave my all then have something to show for it than to
have not tried it with them. Yeah, And I think where I've had a hard time as i've I've always like I look back in my past and like I was just like love me, love me, love me, like you know, And it's just I didn't love myself enough and I and I stood by things that were not good. And it's like if I was to tell my daughter, if I was to tell my friends, what would they say to me? That's how I should look at myself,
That's how I should see myself. And you know, I think letting go of the letting really truly go of the past and having that inner forgiveness and his for I mean, and you know, to forgive him. It's just letting all that go. Has just been like I got a piece of me back. Yeah, a chunk, a big one, a big, big, big, big chunk, and then the other chunk is still it will always be. You know, I don't think I'll ever be. No one's like I said, no one's perfect. We're all going to have our moments
and traumas and our quote unquote baggage. But you know, I think it's a good job. I think it's good. I think it's good. And then the conscious choice to just reiterate those decisions, like everything you do from the acceptance and the putting rocks in the stream from that, every little step is like compound interest. So every time you don't settle, every time you say, you know what, I don't think that's the right person for me, or no, thank you, or whatever it is, that's just compound interest
on top of a really good choice. So it's the investment you made in the trust in yourself and then the compound interest of that, Like that looks really healthy as it grows. Yeah, and it doesn't have to be. I don't know. I think sometimes we put pressure on ourself because we're so all or nothing that it's like, oh, now I messed up because I accidentally, like, like, you know, liked a wrong person or something, and it's like not really.
I think people will come together when the right time, and yeah, if they're meant to, it always ends up working out. And sure does God kind of lets you no, Yeah, and God shaping that personally shaping you. M h, it's good. Yeah. Oh love life friends. I think it's just everything though, it's like how I like how I want to. Even when I was traveling with the airport, I was just like I felt I was like I was so happy. I was like, hi, you know, it's just like that's
the OG channel. Yeah, it's like she's bad. Yeah, it is literally like she's back. I felt this. My friend Kat was like, you know what, I'm not putting KB in your cup. She made us all like these like key little customized cups. She's like, I'm not putting KB in your cup. I'm putting Kristin because Kristin from Detroit needs to come back yeah, and I was like, oh, Michigan, Kristen is in there, and she's just I really like people. Yeah, No,
I I same. I was just like I am I felt that was like I feel like I just feel good. And here's the thing too, which is something I've always wanted to say, is when I got asked to do maybe another book, she I love Maditor. I know she's listening and I love you, but she was like, let's wait until you have a relationship. And I was like no, Like I I don't want people to say to me, oh, but you like you're so happy and like you look so happy, Like I want to be happy because I'm happy.
Well you are in a relationship with myself. Yeah, Like that's the That's like, that's the like, that's what I want people to see, Like I'm happy no matter I'm i'm with someone, if I'm not with someone, if I'm with my kids, if I'm with you, Like I just want like that's like that's me right, Like that's what I want. Like I don't want a man to define my happiness. I don't want you know, my kids, Like,
I just want to be myself and happy. Michigan Channel Lake Girl like that, and I was like, I felt that today in the airport and I was like, okay, I'm here. I had this moment where I was like, well, we get to see each other in July and Michigan, and I was like that we need I was like, I need us to just be like laked together. Yeah's toes in the lake, sweatshirts mess. That's not a zac ground flood. That care on my hand. I let you take over the musical interlop. Oh man. I just think
there is I think we I think two things. One, we spend so much time trying to fix things that aren't really broken, and I think we can just pour into ourselves and remember what's good. And two, I think we just take those cracks and we just go Okay, this needs to be fixed and we do the work. But it's like sometimes there's like the inner you. It just needs to be found again too, because I think like pretty things about me got buried by what the
things people said about me. They it just got buried. And I'm like, actually, I like me. I like that I'm overly friendly. I like that I know that the Southwest Guy is a Sagittarius and his favorite color is green, Like I want I just like people. Yeah, you know, I want to person next to me. Yeah, I want to know too much. I want to know. Why did I get to meet you today?
David?
You know?
Yeah, and that's how I met freakin Sarah Gretzky was which you've never met her, but on a plane I have, Oh you have. Actually, this is where we do. This is where is where we do like a medical house call for people with mom dementia. Everything is fine, that's right. I did a show with you and the stage Okay, I remember now it's all coming back to me. I had those years out of my life. Yeah, but I think the black out here was my major blackout years. I think how I met you on a plane, No,
damn it, we met We met Texas. Yeah, but it was crazy because I was just like and we jumped on each other and you were like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna I'm gonna text you this product, like but that's what here's my coat. I wasn't influencer. I liked how we just were so like friendly with each other. And that's when I liked you. Yeah, I love you, well,
love you. I will just say this, whether you are in a relationship, whether you're not in a relationship, whether you're single, married, friendships, whatever, just be happy with yourself and know that you're okay, flaws and all. Yeah, you're a really great person then and you oh yeah, I was talking to everybody else, but then they're really great people. We just let the noise seep in. Yeah, no more noise, no noise, no noise, no explaining, no noises, no need,
no need. If you know my heart, no need. Yeah, right, cheers. Let's take a break and then we've got a really awesome guest on. All right, so just let us know when they come on, we'll start talking about that. Okay. So we're going to have a married couple on our show next, DJ Envy who's on the Breakfast Club and Gia his wife. They've been together for twenty years, are married for twenty years. They've been together for twenty seven years. There's like that's older than the people that work on
your show. It's older than Riley. So they have a book out right now called Real Life, Real Love, Life, Lessons on Joy, Pain and the Magic that holds Us Together, which I love when couples write a book together because I feel like it's so. I mean, granted mine didn't work out, but I know that's where you're going. I
know that was what the know that I was. But I will just say I think there's something that's still like for of the couples that have read the book, Like I had met someone at my show last night.
They're like, I read your book, and I was kind of like, ooh, sorry, just like, no, it was so helpful for us, because I think everyone's journey to the end is different, but there's still like, I think there's something about like Mike, when Mike and I were able to do and and talk about messes in our marriage and the non perfect stuff, and people need to hear that. Yeah, and I think it's inspiring for other couples. And so it just got released on April nineteenth. It's Apriline Teeth.
It's available on Amazon. But in there she wrote, and it's in the pres loot right now, is that she has faked an orgasm for ten years with Homeboy. Well, I mean, I hope it's Homeboy, because if not, she doesn't even look old enough to be married for twenty seven years. She doesn't, but she's stunning. Yeah, she's beautiful. That's a real Could you fake it for that long? I want to talk about it now before they come on, because it's gonna make me uncomfortable to talk about. I
mean what I could not fake it? I mean, have you ever faked before? Yeah? I have two? Why do we as marriage?
Though?
I'll tell you that, Oh, pressing from low cash is getting after it. He knows how to ride that whatever. No, yeah, well that was dirty.
I got to ride that one. He doesn't actually do their riding there.
But that's fine, Okay, I'm hot. I have faked it a few times, actually more than a few times in my past relationships. I want to ask this a fix, but I go for it. In Mike's marriage, well, we didn't have sex that much for me to fake it, but I I ten times? Yeah I did, but like not a lot.
And why is it just to get it over with or is it to satisfy his ego?
So I will say this in my in my relationship with my Mike, I I didn't care about coming. Does that make sense? I just wanted to please him so badly because I think of my like wanting to feel loved and chosen that I definitely just wanted to make him happy, so EGO and that set then a precedent to not reciprocate. So that was my fault, Okay, I
think for sure. And then in the end of it, I was kind of like, all right, homegirl needs to have an orgasm, so like, can I pull out my vibrator or can we because I'm like, then I started to get frustrated about it because I'm like, you're also dealing with a lot of and it's not even if it's not great sex, then it's like yeah, And that's a huge piece for me, is like I'm a very sexual person. I love that to be a part of
our relationship. Like something happened and I was like, guys, it was even kind of crazy for me, And they're like, if it was something.
Crazy for you, like exiting.
The building, So but I think, yeah, I think. And then just to make them feel good about themselves, I don't know, but I guess, and I never told them. I think I've I've told one person that I that I have and just because it was like I just didn't I don't know, I just wanted to turn you on or whatever, and I just wasn't feeling it. But now I'm like, M like, if we're doing this, like I don't care how long it takes, let's go. Also like let's learn each other. Yeah, like let's be in this.
I feel like guys could technically fake though before you have. I have when I uh I got to go FA check my people. Sometimes I'm tired.
I just want it to be.
And uh yeah, you know I've only done a couple of times when I have done it.
Oh, I thought you meant sex in general.
I was like, wow, oh no, no that too, but okay, okay. I think it's interesting though, because I feel like with guys, and I'll say this like I've definitely been hard on past guys that I've slept with, the like if they couldn't come, I'd be like, why can't like it? Then I made it so personal about that I wasn't pretty enough, I wasn't you know, sexy enough. I wasn't doing the right moves for them, and I made it such a personal and negative thing where it's like guys have probably
just as maybe not just as much. I don't know. I don't know y'all's things down there, but like you have you can be mental too, where we can be mental, and I feel like we take it. It's like it's so hypocritical of like a woman to be like, how could you not when it's like but we don't all the time, But why do women take it so personal? I would take it personal? I mean I would be
I would be devastating. So now granted with like my ex it was like, but I bet you wouldn't do that if like what and like that's like that was really crappy in me to continue to bring in like the past, you know, so like slightly warranted though, but it doesn't matter, like those are my those are my reactions, like I should have handled them in general, just going to give a lot of grace there, but my bad.
I'm now healing on the other side and trying to like, you know, I'm just trying to say, like and even in you know, other dating relationships, I just get so down about it and it's like that's not it's not how it's not fair. Men really do go through it though, seriously, And I have read several articles even just recently about like as they get older, it just becomes like something like they they need sometimes help. That's a real thing.
Mm hmmm. It's interesting though, because hearing Easton you say that you faked it, I would actually be more upset about you faking it then you not coming at all. Does that make sense? But yet I would get more mad at But but then I just say these words like it's no big deal, and she really feels like I'm in fifth grade. I'm sweating. It's no big deal to you. I mean, you know, I know it is. It's fine. You just say it like a doctor. Yeah. Well no, I would say, you're semen. Yeah, it's just yeah,
it's it's very interesting. How would you like me to say? Penis penis? Penis penis? No, you know, like my three year old's like a penist with a tea at the end. Jason the other day speaking, he goes, I have a vagina and I was like, oh, well you don't. But you know, we can always talk about that in the future.
That's what a neurologist should be called. The eurologist should be called a penis.
Or some of that. Plays the piano.
I know, it was like it was.
Somewhere between his private parts and the piano. I just can't figure it out. But penist, well, this just got really off topic. But I just want to say, like, let me rhynd around this again. Don't be a hypocrite. If he he like, don't don't get him all. You know, it's okay. If you guys aren't. It doesn't mean he doesn't think you're sexy. It doesn't mean that. It doesn't mean anything. Sometimes you're just not in it. But just don't lie about it. Don't fake We don't. Girls, we don't.
Let's not fake it, guys, don't fake it. Just be like you're so sexy. This is what I would say, say like you're so sexy, I'm just so tired, or something like give me a little love tap or something like say I'm good looking or something, and to like lessen the blow of you not coming. There's some other things they could do as well. What guys if they don't want to do that anymore. Oh So that's where I get like, like, oh no, don't worry about it. And this is where we differ. This is where we differ.
I like, you have not completed the job. You have not completed the tasket hand. I do not let a contractor leave my house without things working properly. There's other things. Can we just talk about how how uncomfortable Catherine would have been on this podcast. Catherine would have been out. I honestly had a vision of her dropping her headphones and rolling. You're welcome, Catherine for having this conversation while you're not on here. Oh man, let's take a break.
So we are really excited to have both of you on. Obviously, you have your new book that just came out on Amazon and just kind of running through it because obviously I haven't had a chance to read it yet. What for you? I mean, because you guys talked about the infidelity in the book or no, yes, we do, you do? Okay? So was that a heart? So I wrote a book with my ex who also he's not my ex, but we we wrote a book when we were still together about infidelity and his past affairs. And for you, like,
was that what? Why did you guys decide to write about it?
Well, the whole book we decided to write because I feel like it's one thing that we don't do enough right, you know, especially for men. Right we can go to the barbershop and we could talk about our favorite sneak as our favorite basketball player. We could talk about music, but never do we ever get a chance to talk about relationships, right. I wish there was a time when I can go to the barbershop and be like, Yo, my girl is bugging or my wife is bugging.
She just did this.
What can I do? What do you suggest? We don't have those platforms to open up. So that's why we wrote the book to have those platforms and to have those conversations, like you know, we talked about in the book my wife fake and orgasms. I had no idea, but you know, we waited ten years to have that discussion, and I wish I could have had that discussion earlier with some of my peoples.
And the same thing with my infidelity.
I wanted to be able to talk and talk how I've changed and evolve from that s situation. That was very difficult to write about because not because what I did, but who I was hurting. You know, I'm hurting my best friend, I'm hurting the person I say I love, I'm hurting my wife. I'm hurting the person that is everything to me. And I didn't realize it. And I didn't realize it because I didn't know the definition of love.
Like it's easy we always say, yeah, I love you? I love you?
But do we know what that means? Like do we look and say, what does the definition of love?
Like?
If I really love somebody, do I want to hurt them? I really love somebody? Do I want to lie to them? Do I want to keep things from them? Do I still get butterflies? And I didn't necessarily know that definition, so to write it is kind of just trying to encourage people to talk about different things in their relationship and it's not surface issues.
How far out are you guys from the cheating time? Twelve years? Okay? I and kind of brief story like I have also been in. I was in a relationship where my husband had cheated. We ended up writing a book together talking about the affairs. We unfortunately didn't make it. But for you, what was the turning point when you're kind of like, okay, I do trust this man? Like how how many? Because I remember Max? Like can you
just get over it? Or like move on? It's the past, and like how long are you going to It's like I don't know how long? You know, Like I don't I don't know these are and I'm trying to let go of it. It's not an easy thing to let go of. But I'm just curious, like for you, like, was there a turning point where you're like okay, and what did you do to get to that other side to be where you guys are at today.
Well, what you just said was one of the reasons why it was very important to me to write the book and to share what we shared in the book, because a lot of the time, when there is a misstep infidelity, the person who made that misstep feels entitled to the forgiveness, They feel entitled to the moving on of it. They entited, they feel entitled for you to get past it in a timely fashion that doesn't seem
to inconvenience that. Meanwhile, all the while, they are the ones that made the decisions to put you and the relationship in that predicament in the first place, Yet they're not willing to do the work that it takes to remedy that situation. So I was very very clear once I decided that I was going to forgive, it wasn't just on me. I wasn't going to forgive to take
the burden off of him. I was forgiving to take the burden off of me so that I didn't have it on my back, so that I wasn't carrying around that resentment and harboring that hurt every day. I forgave for me, and he just happened to be someone that benefited from that forgiveness. But once I decided to forgive, he was held to a standard. There was things that were required of him. He had to do the work to try to gain back everything that he single handedly
had lost in our relationship. So what made me decide that we were going to go belonghoul was the fact that he was willing to do the work and pay all of the reparations to restore our relationship to what it once was. And for me, the key was until where you felt as though he was saying, I apologize, what more do you want from me?
Blood?
He didn't approach it with that mentality. He approached it with the until mentality. I am going to do everything humanly and spiritually possible to restore this relationship until you were healed, until you're able to try it again, until I'm back in your good graces, until until until I
don't care how long it takes. One day, we were having this conversation yet again, as we were pulling into the garage and he said to me, and I remember this vividly, I will spend every day of the rest of my life making up to you and proving to you that I want to be with you and no one else but you. You and our family is all
that I want. I don't care what it takes. I knew what his intention was once he realized the wrong in his way, and I I couldn't help but take in how hard he was willing to work to restore us.
That's beautiful. That's really beautiful, like and Amy Tira up. Yeah, And because I think you did something with your shame where I think a lot of guys hold on to it and they project it, wouldn't I feel like dj NV, like what did you Because there's something that you must have done with that shame piece that you didn't let it project onto you know, your wife?
What do you mean?
What's shame piece?
So like my ex, like he felt so much shame that that's why he never he wanted me to get over it, or he you know, or he was upset or angry and his projection that was all his shame.
Yeah, I mean, that's why it's hard for me to read the book and even to do the audible of the part because you have to relive it.
But at that point I didn't care about the shame. I didn't care how I looked. I didn't care how it made me feel. I care about who I hurt. And I heard her. So if I.
Had to eat that for twenty years, I'm going to eat it for twenty years because I heard her, like I did this to her.
She didn't do it to me. She didn't do anything to me. I did it to her. So however long it would it took, I don't care.
You know, if I need to whatever I need to do to make this right and to make her feel comfortable and to make her trust me again and to allow her to heal, I was able to do it.
Do you, guys, take some time to like decompress after. Do you do interviews like this, because I'd imagine that you wrote about it, which is therapeutic in its own way. You share about it on these interviews. When you get off of interviews like this, most likely people are asking you. I'd imagine a lot about it, and I love you being a voice of it, both of you and just your such advocates for the healing on both sides, because resentment isn't sexy. And I lived that life too for
a while where I was resentful. But that doesn't look good on me at all. Do you when you take when you get done with these interviews, do you do you have to have some time just in private time with y'all so that you can just kind of get back on the same page. Does it bring up anything? Do you just feel like, good work, we got this.
No?
And the reason why is because for me, the forgiveness is real.
That's right, it was, that's amazing, and.
It was thorough and mind you, I didn't forgive in the matter. I didn't decide I was going to forgive and then it was executed within weeks months. It took me years to forgive thoroughly. It took me years to learn how to not have the urge or the need to punish him to make him hurt the way that
I hurt. I feel that I am fair. You know, you go through something like this, and both of you said that you've been through something like this, so you can understand it seems as though everything in the world after that happens to you. Kind of goes back to cheating you turn on Netflix. The first three suggested shows have to do with cheating. If you look at a billboard and it seems to do a billboard, it's cheating on the billboard.
The radio divorce one one.
It seemed as though I was inundated with things that would cause me to remember, and every time I felt that way, I wanted to make sure that he felt that way too, Like it's not going to just be me suffering, it's going to be you. I had that need to to punish him, But once I got closer with God, I realized it's not my job to punish. That is not my job. If I'm going to forgive and I'm going to move forward, I have to relieve myself of all of those urges because those urges aren't
rooted in godliness, They're not rooted in goodness. So I had to change my perception. But then once I got through it, and I got to a point where I said, you are a changed person. You are in fact, not that person that did those things and that hurt me. At that point, you are humble, You are loving, and you are willing, and you prove it every single day you do not deserve the things that I feel the urge to make you feel, so I am not going
to do it anymore. And once I started walking down that path, my forgiveness was thorough and I was, in fact healed. And it's funny because people will ask me now like you can laugh about some of the things that happen or find a joke in there somehow, some way, And it's because I'm free because of the work that he did to prove to me the degree to which he loves me. And we talk about it in the
book in a section called the New Deal. And the New Deal is about those reparations, and it's about the restoration that has to happen and the steps that the person that offended as well as the offender have to go through to regain yourselves individually and yourselves as a whole to see that beauty in the relationship again. And it's a very intense. It's probably one of my favorite chapters in the entire book because when people ask me,
how did you forgive? You open up the book and it's right there in the New Deal.
Oh God, I love it, like I'm I'm ready to read it. Yeah. Well, It's also like having a second marriage inside of your marriage, Like you guys get a chance at marrying each other again in a different way and knowing each other stronger. What is what is to you, guys real love? Like, what does real love look like to you?
Hmm?
Well, like I said before, is the definition of not wanting to hurt my partner, not wanting to lie to my partner, to be absolutely positively honest, to understand that she is part of me in this relationship. What people don't know is when you have a relationship, you're supposed to be on the same team, right, And a lot of times we don't look at it like that, Like when we get into it, when we used to get into arguments, it was me trying to destroy her or
her trying to annihilate me. That's not what real love is. Like love which is should be an understanding. It should be us against the world. And once we figured that out, it made our relationship stronger. I would say one thing, people talk about everything that we went bad with bad in our relationship, right if you read it in the book, and I used to think, damned what I would have changed that? And no, I wouldn't because at the end of that, it made our relationship strong. It was it
made us to find what real love is. So now we're at a point where, like you know, before, if I left my phone at home, I would be like, oh my gosh, what's going to be on my phone. Now I'm like, well, I could leave my phone for weeks here to take my phone. Matter of fact, babe, can you post something on Instagram for me? And you know what I mean to the point where if you ever see a caps of mind and it's felt wrong, I did it if it felt right.
She usually did, Like it does this relationship too, Yeah, she always she always like, hey, best friend, I love you. But at an art of the thing, yeah.
With that relationship where we have access to each other's everything, passed words, Instagram, emails, pictures and phones everything.
Well, if nothing to high, then what's the you know.
There's nothing to hide. But let me tell you there will be people.
There'll be women.
Let's just say it could be men, but for this case, I'll just say women that will read the book and then present that idea to their partner, and their partner would turn it on them and say, yeah, but you should trust me enough that you would never want.
To go through my phone.
Yeah, and that's a mind bleep. There's a section in the book about mind bleeping, which is where you ignore the obvious, you ignore what you see, you ignore your intuition because you're being led by the fact that you want this relationship to work so badly that you're damn near willing to believe and accept anything.
So yeah, I mean, that's a that's a really good point. Someone that I had had dated, you know, after whatever, a little a little blip, but I remember I had a question about something and he's like, you know it's it's on my phone, Like, you just need to trust me. And I was like, well, I have trusted could I see it? Like just to and he was just like, no,
you just need to trust me. And I was always kind of like, well, if there was nothing, really, then why didn't you just show me correct build the trust, like right? Or was I just asking for too much, you know, like or was that just all my trust baggage issue? Like was that not fair of me to say? Well, if you're saying it, can I see what you said if that's really what you said, just to like kind of like help me and heal, like you're not and help you know, hold my heart in that space or that was.
A mind lib Let me tell you I have a twenty year old daughter, right, and my twenty year old daughter had a boyfriend and the boyfriend went through her DMS and she was like fine.
So my daughter was like, let me see your DMS. They were on the boat.
He ran upstairs in the boat, came down ten minutes, came down ten fifteen minutes later, say he and now you can see.
I was able to be like, do you know why he came by fifteen minutes later?
Right?
And she's like, no, why, I said, because he erased everything he didn't want you to see. And I said, you know, and he was mind bleeping. You say no, well trust me, no, no, it's not it. No, if you have nothing to hide, give me your phone, like you just took mine, but he couldn't see it.
Let me answer your question from my point of view. You asking to see whatever it was that you wanted to see, shows in and of itself that there was trust that was missing. Your intuition told you that you don't need to be able to explain that. That is what our intuition is because if in your relationship his actions coupled with your actions created an environment where you felt secure, you would have never had the intuition to say to him, I'd like to see can you show
that to me? And if a person cares about you and your feelings, they're going to forego their pride and the protectiveness of the phone to say, well, it's none of your business, really and say, you know what, I care a lot more about you than my pride. So if me showing this to you is going to give you security and help to grow our trust, then go ahead,
take a look at it. But if they don't, it either means that there is in fact something to hide, or be that there's not, but they value their own pride more than your security, and that would have to be built. And if you knew that you had I have access to Sean's phone, how many times have I ever looked in your phone?
Well?
See the thing? Like, I don't want to be in a relationship where I actually ever in my life want or feel the need to look at someone's phone. Ever, I don't ever ever I did that for seven years. I don't want to do that anymore. In the next like I just do well, I do not want that, And it's like, but I do know I come with trust issues, so at the times I might ask, and it's like, is that an unhealthy thing for me to ask in that situation?
No, because your partner should care about you enough knowing that you may have trust issues. So it's about being each other's keeper. You should provide an environment for him in which he feels comfortable and that he can he can function in a loving way, and he should do the same for you. Like I said, I have the ability to go through his email, his phone, his Instagram, all the social media, but I never had because he's provided me the comfortability that I don't find it necessary
at all. And furthermore, if I was in a relationship where I felt as though I had to, I would not be in that relationship.
Yep.
Amen, After your partner knowing who you are and what your needs are and maybe having a conversation about that, letting them know, like I need to be able to build trust because maybe I've been hurt before or I've been betrayed before, so there's a learning curve with me. But if there's nothing to hide, then you will hide nothing.
Right, okay, all right, well I don't feel as like crazy then thank you. This is actually the most like divinely timed conversation we could have. Yeah, well, I'm I'm I know, I'm not married, but I'm going to read your book because it sounds like there's a lot of things that can help me in relationships to come and current and past and all. So thank you. And I really appreciate you guys being just a vessel for people that are going through her times and that. I love this.
This is what I wanted. I wanted the this, the heartache, but to turn into beauty and but only half of the But I love that you guys are doing that. So I'm just saying too and it does. That's the DJ MVP yep for sure. But I love you guys. Thank you so much for coming on to be an authentic and just being very vulnerable. And everyone go get their book on Amazon right now, real life, real love. Thank you guys so much, really appreciate it. I love y'all so much. I'm proud of you for speaking truth.
We live in Nashville. I used I used to live in LA but now I live here.
So yeah, all right, Well next time we come to nash a person.
Let's do it seriously. Let me hug your next Okay, bye, guys, Seya, thank you so much, appreciate it. They're amazing.
I love them.
I love you.
I love you.
That was the most timely conversation. It was so good and so real and just honest but like strong. I just yeah, what's meant, We'll stay, what's not, we'll go, And that's okay. And if it's not a hell yes, then it's a hell now. Yeah, amen to that. I have another one good too. They show you who they are, Believe them.
Yeah.
I like that with friends with and co workers with everything. Yeah, really like that's that's kind of my motto in life. Now, all right, guys, have a great week and see you next week.