Ep. 4 Let's Talk About Sex

you come with them? No? She has to think. Janna doesn't steer me. I told you we were talking about sex. I don't know. She talks about so much. I can't listen to everything. I think I think you tuned me in and tune me out sometimes. But no, we're talking about sex and intimacy today, and that's something that we have issues with in the bedroom. Yes, I think everybody does. I know, I think everybody is too. And you just

had your anniversary. Yeah, we just had our anniversary, and you know I had fund you have and we just kind of answer people you were just dying to ask. Alright, So bab um I think, what do you what do you think are what do you think our biggest issue in the bedroom is? Um, A lot of it is

communication and expectations. I think, um, you know, where if we try to get in the space of reading each other's mind and you know, oh, it's been a couple of days, we're gonna have sex, and uh, you know that person you know isn't in the mood or too tired or this or that, then the other person feels

like that. UM. I know for me in particular, you know, the the stereotype for men is that we're just light switches and no matter what, we can just have sex just you know, as soon as our wives are significant others say that, we're just like, all right, let's do it. So you're saying it's more mental for you. Yeah, I think men in general, I don't think you know, I

think more guys can relate than people might. People might be surprised with how many men can relate the fact that, especially when you're involved with someone with intimacy, that it takes a lot more than just hey on, let's go have sex. It's like, sometimes we want some four play, sometimes we want to be one and dined a little bit and like feel special and stroke our ego a little bit and then you know that might build our

confidence or whatever it may be. Yeah, I mean I definitely hear you, because I mean, I know we have some arguments where it's you know, I and I think unfortunately the infidelity piece plays a part in this because there's times when I'm like, you know, I do want to have sex, but and I and I play the game of waiting for you to come to me because I'm like, well, you know, why doesn't he want me? Why doesn't he want to sleep with me when he would,

you know if since he slept with someone else. I think that does play a part with like my head and like where you know, and I know other listeners that have you know, have infidelity in the relationship, like that is you know something they said that is a problem because they like, we want to feel wanted and chosen,

you know, when y'all didn't choose us. And so it's like I guess like for me, it's like I wish we could find someone that could help us, like get out of our heads because I think we we we are both mentally like when we're in bed, like you have anxiety, like, god, I I have to, but I mean, you know, I'm tired from worker, but she's you know, she probably she wants. And then I'm like, I'm not pretty enough and I'm not I'm insecure, and I'm like

why doesn't he choose me? And like I feel rejected again, and it's like I feel like it's like, how do we stay like how do we stay present? How do we stay in the moment? How do we you know, and not feel like we're having to meet these grand expectations is something that we might not be able to

or at the time even too. It's not saying that you don't think I'm pretty or you don't think that you don't want to have sex with me, but you know, when infidelity does play apart, that's what affects our sex life. And then you know, I get upset. You get upset, and you're like, you know, I think in general, you know, especially when there is infidelity infidelity involved, communication is key, and I think you and I have slowly gotten better at this, at communicating and coming to each other and

be like, hey, I'm starting to feel this way. It's been a couple of days. I'm starting to feel you know, these triggers are coming up or these feelings are coming up, like and then you know, anytime you've done that to me, I'm like, oh my gosh, like, no, that's not it at all, Like I've genuinely been tired or you know, generally just haven't been in the mood. But I love you so much and yes, let's connect or whatever it

may be. Um. So I think that's a big part, especially when infidelity is involved, because just like I said in the last episode, I was on, I don't want to feel tested, and I feel like there's passive aggressiveness in the sense of like I know you're waiting for me, but there's hasn't been any talk about it. And then I in my head and I'm like, because I want to feel chosen. I want to feel like that you like, you know, part of me is like you left me, so now choose me, like jump on me, you know

what I mean. Like, and so that's like that's hard. But I also know in your mind it's like, yeah, it's been a long day, we have Jolie, and you're tired, and we're tired, and maybe I just want and maybe you just want to go to sleep. It's not because you don't think I'm prettier, but it's just so it's it's it's interesting like how both of our minds can be two different places and then but yeah, we can

both be frustrated and that's just that's hard. And I know the communication and you're right, we have done a better job at that, but it's still like sometimes we're like you say that you want the four play too or and it's like, but sometimes I think like the person that has been effected and fidelity wants to four play more because it's like, you know, like the other day when you're like surprised and I was like, you know,

like it made me feel special. It made me feel like you know, even though it was you know, it was incredibly spontaneous, and then I was I was like, oh wow, like I didn't feel like your wife, like just like you know, lay next to you. I don't know, I just it was something different that like it was it was nice. I just felt like it was like you you wanted me, and I felt and wanted. So

I just know that I like the spontaneous. Yeah, the spontaneity is I think key two when there's issue every once in a while, for sure, every once in a while, like you and I have where it's just you know, if it starts to become this planning thing, then I get in my head especially and it's just like anxiety like build up to performing and you know, my insecurities or what however I feel about myself in that moment might take over, you know, how I really feel or

how I want to be with you. Um. You know again, that's something that I'm sure most men won't really admit, is you know, insecurities that they may have with performing or uh, you know issues with intimacy, which you know I have where you know me, I never connected sex and intimacy and love together before in my life. Now, being in a real relationship with you that deals with intimacy and really growing together as a couple as to human beings like that is so uncomfortable for me. But

I'm trying to do that. I'm trying to get to that level like of intimacy and like what that's really like. And again I think a lot of people don't look into it like that. I mean, And that's the thing, yes, I mean, and I thank you for like saying that because but it but it also makes me sad because I'm like, I want that intimacy. I want that like that and not just like not just sex. I know intimacy isn't just sex. It's everything like leading up to

it in our relationship and communication. And I know that, like you know, sex and intimacy, you haven't coupled together. So I mean, what is what are you doing too? Well, that's the thing. I think, you know, I'm starting to and I think you're seeing that that I'm starting to correlate the two. And it's it's not a decision that I have made in my life. It's not like, oh,

I'm just I'm gonna have issues with intimacy. I choose that. No, it's just, you know, things that have happened throughout my life that have caused me to to not relate sex and love and intimacy, and uh so it's just different for me. It's different and having to go through that at you know, thirty one years old, when I spent the whole rest of my life not correlating the two, Is that's a change. Do you think it's possible? Absolutely?

I think it's already. I've already shown at times it's possible, and it's just only something that I can by practicing by taking contrary action from what I would do in the past and putting myself in uncomfortable situations, which is very hard to do, but choosing to do that because I want to grow with you. Thank you for sharing. Wow. So I'm just I'm so curious. What what was the intimacy level before the infidelity? What was it like you

two as a couple before the infidelity? The problem was, I mean, do you want to say it or go ahead? Go ahead? No, I'll let do it because I don't want to, like, I don't want to get you mad at me. I don't want to say that because I know how sensitive you are to certain things, and I know this is this is hard, it's not easy. But again, like you know, you have realized like how many people

we are helping as well. But from my take of it, it was great in the very beginning, Like but then again, he meets someone that he loves and he's struggled with intimacy his entire life. So it was in the beginning, you know, where it was like, I'm like, what what happened? Like what why are you not what's up? Like you know what I mean, Like what's going on? Like this isn't this isn't good? Why are you not what? Why are you not wanting to sex with me? Why is

why is it not working in this sexual capacity? Being a whole and a whole and you know, mean and short tempered and not the loving, you know, compassionate, supporting boyfriend I was at the beginning, and then what it turned into. And I mean we had a luck. I say this any time we talked to somebody, because I think it's no excuse. But having said that, there are things in life that happened, happened, like circumstances that affect

the outcome. And in the span of six months, we bought a house together, we got engaged, we got married, we got pregnant, and I was transitioning out of the only career I've ever done, I've ever had. Okay, but that's not the main reason though. No, No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying circumstances like like happen in life that maybe caused me to be even that much more disconnected. But the core is you fell in love with me. You have intimacy issues. You don't connect love

and sex together. So from way past, like way before, right, Yeah, my point in saying that because yes, I've always had I didn't correlate love in intimacy and sex and all that stuff, so that on top of all those other things, it was like, you know, perfect storm in my in my brain, can we explain? And then there was the cheating before, and so then that just still Let so is our sex life has been you know, yeah, but I mean it's it's been a work in progress because

of those issues and the intimacy. Is it when you actually physically emotionally fall in love, did it trigger the intimacy issues? Yeah, so you didn't have them when you were just dating. It was as you were falling in love. I'm just trying to like he would a few women in my past that it was like it was it was kind of weird. I kind of laughed at myself

about it. But it's like I knew I really liked the girl when I started having like yeah, like literally it was like an alarm clock going off from my body. It's like like it would happen. I'm that holy shop, I must really like this girl. I must like like her a lot, and it's only happened to small amount of women and the girls were like, uh, do are we not hot right now? Like what's going on? I mean?

And eventually I got past it and things were okay, but still just especially initially, it's just it was really weird. But is it fear? Is it? But at the same time, you'd go off and be with somebody else easily, but with the person you loved, he wouldn't. And that's why I've been unfaithful in every relationship I've ever had ever. Wow, Yeah, yeah it sucks. So yeah, it's not easy. But now you're working on it. Now you guys are working on it.

Is yes, we are, but it's you know, it's it's still hard for I think for you because it's like you want to not be always the perpetrator, and you have been in every single one of your relationships. It's hard when you want to do something but then like your body, your brain doesn't want to cooperate, you know what I mean, Like your your brain and heart are two different things, you know, and it's tough to kind of get the both of them on the same path, get them in sync, get them in sync on what

you really want to do. Um Man, this is harder to talk about. I thought, um I'm proud of you though, for I mean like admitting you know what I mean, admitting that, And honestly, that's what drew us together in the first place, because I've cheated plenty in my past, not proud of it. But when we got together, we both were like and I was like I would. I'm like, I'm gonna honked you. I cheated on my last relationship. I cheated on them one before up and I cheated

on the one before that. Not proud of it. But I want to be different in this relationship. I want to love you, only love you and be with you. And what hurt was that he said the same thing, you know what I mean, He's like me too, I have it. It's like we finally found someone that like we got each other. Yeah, and that's why that's where we connected so quick, so fast, because we loved the flaws in one another. Like you know, I feel like the majority of the time when people first start dating,

people asked that, like have you ever cheated? And everyone's like, no, like you give the political answer when more times or not, they probably have. Did you feel like a mirror? It was just nice to and finally someone didn't judge me too, because I'm like, it's it sucks and I'm not proud of it at all, But I knew what I wanted to do different in this relationship. So you know, when there was infidelity again his side, I was like, damn it.

You know, we talked like we said we were going to be different, you know, like and so that was like,

that was that was just hard for me. And I know he wants to be different, you know, and he has act of working on his stuff and you know, and you know, I'm proud of you for for owning all of it too and wanting to be better and wanting to have intimacy because the fact that you even want to work on your intimacy and is huge because you could have easily, I mean, the easiest thing for you, Mike, out of all this was to leave and starting a

relationship relationship with someone else that you haven't heard, haven't doesn't have triggers, and that would have been the easiest thing for you to do. And you yes, yes, but I mean I give you a lot because I mean it was I feel like it's a it's a bigger uphill battle for you with you know everything, so um and like totally like changing your ways and you know being but you know who you want to be, and I know who you want to be to know who you can be. So thank you for again being just

super honest. And I think this is going to help a lot of people. It's a tough subject to talk about. It is, I can see and you're okay, so have to talk to you guys about something. Um, I like brushing my teeth. I brushed my teeth twice a day. Um, well most of the time. But um, what I love about this new toothbrush I'm using is that accused me accountable Because I remember I was facetiming with my mom the other day and I was like, Mom, I gotta brush my teeth. She's like, oh, I will too, So

we're facetiming. She's like two minutes. And what I love about it is that my toothbrush is actually time. So my mom stopped at like thirty seconds and she's like, wow, two minutes is really long. I'm like, yeah, Mom, I know. That's why I gotta get quip because it's an electronic toothbrush. It's it literally has a timer in there, so it helps you clean for the dentist recommended two minutes with pulsaying. So it really, really like the vibration helps clean my

teeth so much. So I feel like my teeth are just cleaner, and it's so much better than a regular toothbrush, because again, I just think having that vibration on your teeth really gets the cook out. And I think it's fantastic. What I also love about it at Oprah loves it and whatever Oprah loves I love. It was on the Oprah's O List, named one of the times Best Inventions, and the first subscription electric toothbrush accepted by the American Dental Association. So I want you all to be just

as happy about brushing your teeth as I am. So. Quip starts at just twenty five dollars and up. If you go to get quip dot com slash Janna right now, you'll get your first refill pack free with Equip Electric toothbrush. By the way, it also looks like an iPhone. It's like looks like it was made from apple. It's like rose Gold's beautiful. That's your first refill pack free at get quip dot com slash Janna spelled g E t q u i P dot com slash Janna happy brushing.

Let's let's talk to UM an expert we have on the line right now, right now, right now, right now. Her name is Uh. I don't want to butcher this, Shari, Is it sure? Right? Okay? I was like I was gonna say, Cherry, I'm sorry, but Suary it. How are you?

I'm great? How are you good? I'm just sitting here talking with my husband about sex my favorite topics so perfect, and we're you know, we're just kind of and also producer Jenna's here with us, and UM, you know, we're just kind of talking about how we're now building our sex life through infidelity and intimacy and UM, if you have any helpful hints, I think or managing expectations too is something that I think of my husband, like mind

reading or having expectations too to please me and to um. Yeah, okay, so the infidelity happened on whose part mine? Okay? And you both want to rebuild and get back to a place or get to a new place in the relations. We want to obviously, I mean we're we're working on our marriage, what would be helpful, like, okay, So for me, I'll tell you what I need, and then my husband you can say what you might need. But for me, I want to know how do I stop with the comparisons?

First of all, because I have a lot of insecurities and I get in my head a lot like how do I stay present with the man that I'm in bed with now, not who he was right? And then comparing and then also you know, if he doesn't want to sleep with me because he's tired, how do I not like be like, well, you wanted to sleep with so and so, why won't you be with me? Of course,

Oh these are great questions. And let me just start by saying that I went through this too, So I was in your shoes and I've worked with so many clients to get through this, and it's absolutely possible. So what would be paramount is that you two decide what you want now. You know, maybe where you were before there were some holes in the relation, tip or one or the both of you were not getting everything that you needed, and so to create a new vision for

the relationship is really key. To say okay in the future as we're you know, day by day rebuilding what are we building and really get on the same page about what it is that you want together, because I imagine there's something better to walk into. You know, you can learn a lot from this instead of walking away from it. So if you're both on the same page about what that vision is, that's going to help a lot because then you're holding that as opposed to something

from the past. You know, we know what happened, but here's where we're going and work, you know, working towards that is going to be a great container to stay focused on what you two are building. Like art, you know, it's something you're creating together, future focused and then in the present for you, you know, there's some work that you can do just in individually to look at what

what's the blessing of this? It showed you that you've got some some insecurity, some sense of now questioning who you are, and so in that there's a giant lesson, there's giant growth for you and that you know, any of us has that opportunity. But the fact that you have that in your hands now you can say, all right, how do I see myself and really go into some exploration of how do I identify am I the girl

who has cheated on? Or am I you know, some really beautiful soul on this planet who's worthy of love, who has their own unique flavor of love to give, and and start really amplifying how you see yourself. You know, I see that there's these life stages that we go through as men and women, and as a woman, you're going through. Can I ask how old you are? I'm thirty four, okay, so right about that age. You're in what we would call like the princess age before you

become a queen. So it sounds really silly, but I think it's a great sort of metaphor that we can relate to. Is that you're learning about your power right now, and in short order, as you start to approach forty, you're going to step into that power so holy and become the queen you know, and then and beyond that, there's other stages, but these these stages are important for you to know about. Now that you get to you get to be playing with your power and what that

means as a woman. You know, how you want to be treated, how much love you have to give, Identifying with yourself as a really powerful form of love on this planet for that man that no other woman can compare to, frankly, because there's no other woman exactly like you, And so I would spend my time filter sting on your own unique gifts and the own you know, your own ways of expressing because when you really you know except that and your own way of being, then yeah,

there are a million other flavors of women out there, but when you're really aligned with yours, you become irresistible. Mm hmm, I hear you. There's two parts in me. One that's like yeah, absolutely, like I am like I am beautiful, and then in other parts like, well then why didn't he choose me? Right? Well, that'd be a really good question. I'd love to hear his answer. I need both your names. I'm Jane, and then this is

my husband, Mike. Hi, Mike. Yeah, tell me there's there's a truth here that you there was something you weren't getting in life, and maybe not just from Janna, but just in life. Have you guys had that conversation where you've told her really what you were speaking? Yeah, we have, Um, you know, there's as open as we are on this show. About our issues are still some things that we keep to ourselves. UM, but her and her and I have had,

you know, these conversations and they've been ongoing. Um. You know, it's been two years now almost um since since kind of discovery. But um, you know, there's a lot of things that I was missing. I mean, you know, I could spend all day talking about. But our important thing now is kind of as you said, it's rebuilding who we are as individuals, as two separate human beings, and then within that coming together stronger than we ever ever were.

And you know, there we don't have to be um, codependent on one another, you know, and wake up in the morning and say, you know, how, hey, honey, how how am I? How do I feel today? How am

I feeling? You know, and depend on each other to kind of dictate our emotions are our feelings that day, which I think we did for a while at the beginning of the beginning of our marriage when we started hitting some just you know, real world regular stresses in life and became kind of codependent on one another and kind of lost part of ourselves in that. Um, I know I did for sure, so and a huge piece

of it too. Is that he does struggle with intimacy, and so that is also an issue like with you know why he has treated in previous relationships and then in ours as well. Um, but I think now like as we are coupling together again, you know, how does I mean, Mike, Like, your biggest thing is the mind reading and expectations? Is that you would say is your Um? Yeah,

that's definitely one of them. Um, you know it's for me again, Like I said before, I don't want to feel tested, and so I would like to know what's out on the table as opposed to in your mind. You might have these expectations and if I don't meet them, you get upset when well, that's not fair because I never knew what they were. So I don't know because we're again, we're two different people and we think different ways, right,

So how would deal with that? Then there's there's a short pad around this that is really just the simplest question and getting really good at asking this question and giving honest answers and moment to moment, baby, what do you need? What do you need? Right? Okay? I hear that. At the same time, like I want him to be able to I don't want to have to tell him

what I need. I hear you because you guys have probably been together for a long time, right, I mean we've been together for you know, three and three and a half four years. But it's like, I'm like, I'm laying in bed, I got a really sexy lingerie thing on. Yeah, I want you to jump me right now. I don't want you to. I don't have to tell you to jump me. You know, like I totally get it. And and for for us as women, we find it really reassuring that you know us right, that you that you

can catch our cues. And I'm like, I'm wearing I'm not wearing like, you know, your big sweatshirt, like hellow. And then he's just like good night, babe, And I'm like, what the what do I want? Baby? Like that's what I want. I want the baby Like on the air, we could sit out loud that it's now a new code that if mama's wearing lingerie that means I want the Yeah, yeah exactly. But I mean I guess, like I guess the times that you know I you know that I'm not wearing the lingeree and I still might

want to is it is it conscious? Should there be conscious times for both of us, even if we're tired or whatever, to try, I guess, or to like make the effort because I don't Again, I just I don't. I have hard time. I don't want to ask for that. No, you want it to be natural. You want to feel wanted, you want absolutely you do so, so here's another way if it's to be something else, because that's not gonna work.

It's incredibly generous to have that shortcut to sometimes know that he's going to be thinking of other things, or have had a busy day, or be really tired and just not know. And that is universally a trait that we struggle with with anyone who identifies masculine. There in a single focused mindset, and they're not always going to be able to penetrate the depths of our being and

figure out what we're feeling. He should try, right, Mike, I would think you'd be willing to try to get in there, to give her presence, to get to know her more deeply. I think today it would be really amazing if you could just sign up to always know that she's saying she wants you, and he's wearing. It helps when you start to learn those cues that build trust. But for the times that you you don't want to do that, I think there's there's got to be um

an understanding. So let's say you know he's tired, but you really want him if we flipped it, if you were really tired and he want to do if you had the ability to say, look, there are a few things that I need first, I need the dishwasher, Anthony, I need to think aback, there are a couple of things I need in order to be able to give that to you that you guys should be able to ask for that. Like he may be tired and he can say I can have a quickie, I can't spend

an hour. You know that there be a little negotiating because I think that's what we call level three relationships, which is really just all about giving, trying to be a source of your partner's needs. And that's another conversation we can go into more deeply if you want, but it's it's taking the stance of being just a total giver and wanting to give to your lap. So if she really needs you, then Mike, you get to ask for what you know, do you get to take a

power nott first, You're gonna get a coffee? You like, what do you need in order to give her that? Because what I what I think is really helpful is to say in all relationships that you haven't you have. This is a great metaphor, but I'm a twenty four

seven always open restaurant for you. But if you're going to come by around three in the morning, you got to expect that the waitress is going to be a little cranky and not give you like hard course meal, you know, and or that maybe you can just decide as a couple that there's certain hours that you're closed

for business. Yeah, you know, well, and that's and that's what we had an argument about that because you know, he like woke me up, and I was like, I don't want to just be woken up like having you know what I mean. He's like, whoa, I was giving

you like you want to have all the time. And I was like, yeah, but I want like, yeah, I want you to maybe kiss me for I don't wake me up like when I'm dead sleep like you know, she said, she has said both like sometimes she's like I just want you to jump my bones and stuff like that. And don't get me wrong with grant and plenty of sex. And this is just where our issues come up are in these situations, right. But I mean, you've given me both signs, like you said both things.

Where're like you've literally said to me, wake me up, like I won't care, Like I don't remember ever saying wake me up. You don't wake me up. So the record on the record, the greatest thing, shake me first and our mind exactly. Yes, we absolutely do change your mind. Yet now now I'm in a different now now that we're two years past in Phil don't wake me up. Yeah, So you guys decide, and and that's really generous to say, like here's what I'm opened for business. Here's my favorite.

I'm open for business like sixteen hours of the day. So that's amazing. And then and then to give him a sense of what turns you on, I call them jump starts, like what would be the zero to sixty

move you know that would really turn you on? And what you might know for him to like a zero to sixty move that you don't have to beg and plead you could do one or two things that you know are always going to turn him on, you know, to share that with each other really were because the common misconception, and I mean rightfully so, is that you know, men were just like light switches. We can just turn it on or you know, our spouse wants to have sex, Yeah,

let's do this, like you know, no issue. Well, you know, I think, or at least for me personally, when I struggle with intimacy and and really connecting with you know, with Joanna and you know who I'm in a relationship with. For me, it's not just a light switch. Sometimes sometimes it is. I mean, shoot, yesterday it was you know, spontaneous, and you know it wasn't a big issue at all.

But sometimes for me it's like I feel like, right now, she's just waiting for me to make a move and make her feel special, when sometimes in my mind, I'm like, what about me, Like I'm here too, Like I don't I don't see anything coming to me and making me feel special sometimes and I think I'm the first. I'm sorry like that you feel that way. I think for me, maybe why I don't is because I'm still in that like I want you to choose me, because I haven't

felt chosen in our relationship. So I think that's where like infidelity has screwed up our sex life. But I mean, I feel like we're kind of getting into a place now where it's something that you know, that is something that I can now try more on because but and here's but here's my issue with it though when I have done it. My biggest thing is I when he rejects me, I get furious because I'm like, oh, you're

rejecting me. You did not reject them, right, And so when I get rejected, if I'm telling you right now, if I start to try and I get rejected, it won't be pretty because I'm gonna be upset. And I have been before, like when I have tried, So what sure, what do I do in that instance where I'm like, I am trying and but now I'm not getting chosen or he's not going to sleep with me right right? Well,

there's a number of things. I think knowing what you guys are building and being future focused or even present focus, you're going to have an easier time because what happens in that moment, which I totally get, is you go back into the past. And and that is where like I want you still to prove to me that I'm lovable. I want you to choose me. I want you to

undo this. So there's there's a something a ritual that you guys have to have around for giving forgiving this and drawing a line in this band and saying we're going to move beyond this. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna make anything in the future now mean that I'm not as good as her. But what do I do when he rejects me when I'm trying so Yeah, But then that's the other thing is that you in life,

you have the ability to choose the meaning for everything. Right, this guy just cut me off, I'm gonna make it mean, right, or I didn't get you know, this opportunity, I'm gonna make it mean and you can you can choose that. That's what your brain does, so you can now redefine it. If he doesn't want you in that moment it or if he's not turned on. You get to consciously decide what does this mean? And it's it's really something that I would sort of check with him on, you know, like, honey,

I need some help here. What does this mean? Does it mean that you're just tired. Doesn't mean that you're not attractive to me, doesn't you know? Does it mean later, like try to find something that actually empowers you and has you feel close to him, because it's usually something that it is better than what we're making up in our minds. And I have this whole commitment to myself that my mind will make up all kinds of crazy stuff and I and it's sometimes wrong, it's most often wrong.

And so I say it's in my love, Honey, I'm making up a story right now, and I'm not sure if it's true. Can I check it out with you? Because what I'm feeling right now is totally rejected, you know, and completely closed off and shut down. And I don't want to feel that. Do you think you could have that with him? Yeah? I mean I would. I would

love that. It's just I'm again, in my right healthy brain, I am saying absolutely and my other and rejected, um, you know her wife, You're not you know, not feeling good enough. That hurts and I don't. I can try to work on asking him that, but again it's taking a huge leap for me to try. Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot of work, and what I would say would be an easier way because you've got like your high self right, You're like you've been calling that your healthy self,

your wise your self. When you're in your prefrontal cortex or you're in your heart and you're feeling safe, you can always be her and you'll have a great conversation

with him. But there's gonna be the times when you get triggered or when you go out of that area straight into the amygdala and you are reptilian brain and you're going to react, and so you have to have an agreement with Mike, and Mike if you would be so generous to hold her when she gets triggered, to stay there like a redwood tree and say, Okay, this

doesn't scare me. I've got this. It's it's her. Her hurt feelings will come out, and I would say, Jennifer, you just to like cry and say I feel rejected, I don't feel good right now and honest really hurts me, and and be in your vulnerability. Then Mike you get to hold that and know and know this without a shadow of a doubt, that these moments will pass. They're not going to be here forever. She's not going to

test you forever, bring up the past for forever. But if you can stand there and be present to that emotion and hold it every time that comes up, that will be like one last time and it'll finally go away. She's going to work through those emotions and learn to trust you again. If you can just say you don't scare me. I got you. This doesn't mean that I'm rejecting you and reassure her, which I'm sure feels like a pain in the butt at sometimes you'd love of

this to go away. But if you're willing to do that for some period of time, you'll notice major progress. Absolutely. I mean, that's sure, you're amazing. No, it's it's it's a like shere he said. It's like a trust, a trust fall. You know, it's leaning in, it's leaning into one another. And you know, just to speak my opinion on that, like if Janna came to me and you know, I just got home from work or whatever it may be, and she's, you know, wanting to be intimate however you

want to call that. It's if I you know, said no whatever, that's not rejection coming from me. But if she came to me softly like she asks of me and said, hey, because you don't want to like be physical right now, this is how I'm feeling. I would

immediately my guard would go down. I would not put it balls up, and I would be like, oh my gosh, like that is not at all like what I'm trying to portray to you, like I love you, Like that would help me be more intimate, help be you know, there for her and be that red wood and be strong for her and hold her and be like, oh my gosh, she must be feeling pain, Like that is not at all what I'm trying to do is reject you.

That is huge. That is so huge because you know what we do is when we go into that and Magdula, we go into the protective outside feelings like anger and defensiveness like I'm gonna take you down, you know, like because that feels safer to us than crying and feeling how hurt and rejected we are. So it's going to take major courage on your part, Janna, but it's going to make you a lover who can stay open instead

of shutting down and pushing him away. Yeah, okay, I am the world's worst at defensiveness, Like I am an ultimate defender. And for me, if she reacted in a negative way and started screaming at me saying, you don't choose me, you chose them, so on and so forth, Yeah, then I would get into a place of Okay, I'm not good enough because look at all these other things I'm doing that are right. I'm being vulnerable, I'm being honest. Clearly that's not enough for her. That's in my brain.

That's what that means. Where I'm like, she's she doesn't see all the great things I am doing and changing. She's taking the one thing I didn't do right in this moment and blowing up about it. And that sends me through the roof. And she knows that. But it's just it's so hard I get in that in that situation, it's hard to control of those emotions that she must be feeling. And again she comes to me, Sauce, I just I know I do, of course, because you love her.

And I'll tell you what, here's a secret superpower of yours, Mike, that if she does come to you with anger, I know that right behind it is a scared little girl who's hurting, and that if you just stand like a giant redwood tree and like, go, okay, I'm not afraid of this. The anger is just a shield and I'm gonna hold her. I'm gonna look at her in the eyes. I'm gonna listen and just watch it'll it'll come down. It's a little girl just wanting to be chosen. Yeah,

I don't know. Jan is pretty scary. I challenge anyone to stand in front of her like a red red oak and think that you can. You totally have her heart in your hand so you can hold it. Well, I'm obsessed with you, and you are now our new life coach. People just literally are listening to whoever's listening

to this, that's like a couple of therapy sessions. It really was incredible Gold And again like, there's so many people that are dealing with, you know, this issue and and sex in general, and can I reach her just a few emails just to lighten some of this a little bit um and help some of our listeners out. Okay, so it says, high Love, I have a question for you. I have a friend who was born and raised Christian. She got married two years ago and her and her

husband still have sex problems. They haven't had real, normal, successful sex. What are your thoughts on that? Yes, M Well, it could be so many things. I the fact that she said Christian. You know, I grew up Catholics, so I'm I'm aware of what comes with that. And there can be a real distorted understanding of sects. There can be a lot of um, misunderstandings of how good it is, how pure it is, and you know, what a healthy

thing it is. So maybe there's some issues there. Um. I think that sex is like the topic that nobody gets taught about. We don't talk about it. I mean, we have stealthy skills around it, and it really probably comes down to a skill gap, like a communication challenge and a skill gap of asking for what we need. You know, everybody needs this. It's like food and water

for us as human beings. And if they have any sort of challenge around communicating what their heart's desire is or who they are and what they need, then there's

just going to be a standoff. And it probably has roots and what you're experiencing, Jenna, somebody's feeling rejected and then nuts shut them down, and then one person withholds the other person automatically withholds, and so you have this domino effective withholding and then just trying to cope, you know, with Maybe this is what married sex looks like, which is a tragedy. Well, and here's here's another one. Lately, IM possibly for the last couple of years, I found

myself not attracted to my husband. I absolutely love him and don't want to divorce him, but I'm finding other men more attractive. What is wrong with me? To be honest, though I had never married him for his looks, but I was definitely more attracted to him when we were dating. All of this has caused a block in our sex life.

I'm wondering if a lot of this has to do with the comfort level of being married for almost four years, because nine times out of ten, he just smells bad, whether it burbs or farts, I like, she says, whether it's not him, whether it burbs, farts are a bad cough. We have been trying to better our marriage via marriage counseling books, as we can't afford a marriage counselor. I feel like I feel like can talk to him about anything except this one issue of my attractiveness to him.

How can we even discuss that I feel if I told him I wasn't a percent attracted to him, that it would be a huge blow and may also lead to him thinking I don't love him. So I think I think you know you guys, Mike, and you can both as a man's perspective, and then you know from your knowledge, what do you think? Yeah, Mike, do you want to go first on that? Sure? I mean that man, that's dozy um for me. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if Jana gain Well, I've said that

to you. I said that to you before though, Remember when the infidelity stuff happened. I said, I'm not attracted to you anymore. Yeah, but that's I gave you a reason. Well maybe well he farts and burbs and you know what I mean. That's like, hey, can you bring maybe a little bit more of the like romance? And that's what I was gonna say. You know, for me personally, I think you're the same way is Janna and I always want to impress each other, Like, I think that's

the way you and I will always be is. I don't think couples should get too comfortable where they stop wanting to impress the other person. Like when Janna and I go out and we get dressed up, like we complement each other because we want to look good for one another. We don't just you know, go through go through emotions like that's you know, something we take pride. And so I think that in that relationship, that's something

that they should talk about. Is like, hey, honey, like if she doesn't want to bring up his attractiveness, be like I really want to impress you and like make you feel this way about me or help you feel this way about me, and you know, maybe he'll just naturally want to do the same so she's more attracted to him. I think I think Mike's right. People do

get way too comfortable. When I was married, I would end up sending like, oh, this is what I want from my anniversary, this is what I want for Hanakah, this is what I want for Christmas, this is what because he didn't know, so you end up getting. The comfort level is so high that you just become these strangers who are just emailing and texting each other yes and comitating, and you're not. There's no romance left, there's no communication, there's none of your needs are being met

at any level. So they need to bring the romance back. It's only been four years. Shoot, mine was at seventeen years, so we need to work on that now. Yeah, and I'd say, you know, I completely agree with what you guys have said, and I think that there's uh an

energy that also creates attraction. Sometimes we limit the definition of intimacy or attraction to just one thing, like intimacy only equals sex versus touching and talking and like sending text to each other and all the other things that could equal intimacy and at activeness also comes from like the maculine energy he might be putting out, like the stuff he's talking about at dinner, you know, the things that he's bringing to her that would be a turn on.

So I'd be so interesting, you know. They say, if you focus on what you love like you did in the beginning of the relationship, there'd never be an end. We start out focusing on all the things that we love, like oh my god, his hands, oh my god, the way he talks, oh my god, the thing you know, like you just can't help but focus on all the great stuff. And then as time goes on and hurts happen, you start to focus on all the things you don't

like and that's what undoes us. So I'd be so interested to see if she could start to talk about the things that really turn her on, you know, like we don't go to museans anymore, you know, you are, like the things that they could do or talk about that would really bring back that yeah, yeah, and that right, And in that higher level relationship, that's your desire as a partner is to be like, I want to rock your world, So keep telling me, you know what, what

does it for you? Because it does change over time too. And I agree with her that she didn't marry him for his look, so this really isn't the issue. There's probably something else, you know that maybe he's shut down a bit energetically, or he's not coming home. Is on fire, you do, And that's a cool conversation to have. They can get that back, and I would challenge her. I hope she emails responsive she does anything about this, But again, like Janna and I talked about, is kind of ask

for what you need. Like you know, Janna likes to sit back sometimes and see what I'm gonna do to to choose her to make you feel special. Well, sometimes in a relationship if they're at that kind of comfort level, like remind him. I go to him like, hey, honey, this is you know where I feel like we're lacking, Like I would love for you to do X, Y and Z, because because he might, he might think everything's

okay in his world. He might everything is fine, and then next thing you know, she blindsides him with you know, I don't think this relationship, this marriage is working. He's like, what the hell just happened? You know, best best marriage vows I ever heard where when the man said to the woman, I promised to never know you. And at first I was like, there's a lot of good thing.

I realized it was the best thing that you could say to someone because every single day, so many things happened to us that change us, you know, And if they could bring that back, like act like you don't know each other at all every day and be curious about each other, then that creates a sense of openness, you know, where anything is possible. Mystery is that is that what you would say to to like the mom at the end of the day that you know they haven't had sex in a month and a half and

they're exhausted and tired. I mean, is it just is it is it that too like kind of re igniting something to you know, like we're friends at having a

sex in a while? Do they need the yann But is that just like something where like you just have to reignite and um spice it up a little bit, like because I'm moms, like I'm so tired, I don't want to have sex well, and so that would be interesting to like change up you know, the ritual right because yes, and the mom mode when you know you're raising little kids, there's this period of time where everybody's

highest need is certainty. It's this routine and the same same and make sure no one dies every day, Like not a really great period of time for couples. So I would say, you know, knowing what would restore a really tired mama and have her transition from mom mode into woman mode. That's the bridge that you know, we as women should get good at getting ourselves over. But it's so nice to have a man help you and so you know when at the end of the day,

whoever's you know, babies are in bed. Would would a really nice back together be something that would feel connecting and right with a massage, feeling really good, and then you know, with those sorts of things, it's highly likely that it could lead. I mean, I asked Michael last night to put lotion on my legs. Did any lotion get on my legs? Negative? That's did not get my cue. Well, I think we need to make a list all the cues. This is my language, this is my and I just well,

I cannot thank you enough. You have made me laugh, you've made me cry, you have given us some really good tips. And again, I know a lot of my wind out listeners need this, So thank you so incredibly much. Can can I can my listeners find you somewhere? Yeah? Absolutely, I have a website that's my name, Shari Healy dot com and I'll spell it for you the H E R I E H E A l E y And there's all kinds of good into out there around how to become the person you're here to be and do

what you're here to do on the planet. Well, I love you, so you're so welcome. Thank you for having Thank you. So. This was supposed to be the sex episode, and believe me, I have so much sex stuff to

talk about. And ask about but it turned into the Jana and My Couples Therapy episodes, which which I'm not saying it did not disappoint because you guys were so open that I was nearly in tears because I was really in it with you guys, and I have empathy and for both of you, because you guys are so open that we're getting both sides and it's so honest that it's mind blowing really and it's helping a lot of people. Yeah, I hope. So I was terrifying. I'm not gonna line yea, I'm proud of you. I am.

I'm really proud of you. Thank you for being open to being open. Its couples out there. It does. I mean, there's a one girl she's like I literally sat my husband down and I said, listen to Mike. Listen to his empathy for her when she gets triggered, please I need that. And he was like, you know wow, like and he was able to sit in her pain and

sit in you know. So I think that's I think, having your side of things, and you know again like we're you know, we're two years post, but you know, and now we're able to you know, you told me some things that I have to work on, and that's you know, that's helpful for me and for the other

listeners out there that can relate to that. Okay, so you guys know my obsession with Hello Fresh because again, I'm not the greatest cook, and I love easy recipes and the fact that they deliver the groceries to me. I don't have to go searching in the grocery store. It's so easy, thirty minute recipes. Like my husband says, every time Hello Fresh comes, it's like a halo at the front door over these the bags that are delivered. What I love though, right now is this thing called

Green Chef. They actually are owned by Hello Fresh. But the difference between Hello Fresh and Green Chef is that Green Chef is the first U s D. A certified organic meal kit delivery service that includes everything you need to cook delicious gourmet meals that you can feel good about. So yes, Hello Fresh is amazing, but if you want organic meals sent to your door, then definitely go to

Green Chef. So again, if you want organic meals for fifty off your first box of Green Chef, go to Green Chef dot us slash Janna that's Green Chef dot us slash Jana. I promise you it's gonna be the best meal you ever rate. I have one more email, okay, and it's from Holly. Hi Holly, And this will wrap this up nicely. How did you know Michael was the one?

She's about to graduate college and she's borne with her boyfriends since high school and she says I loved him more than anything, but I find myself doubting the relationship a lot. How did you know Michael was the one? Okay? So this question has been asked to me before, and it was always a one part answer. It's now a two part answer. So the first part is I knew he was the one from I mean, I know this

is the most cliche answer ever. I knew he was the one from the moment I saw him, because I saw, I saw a pain in him that I could relate to. I saw, and then when once I got to know him, and I was like, we we have the same struggles. And I loved his heart. I loved his openness and his willingness to to bear that. And yes, was it perfect in the beginning. No, But for me it was someone you know, he loved he loved kids, and he you know, he loved he loved me. He loved me

for my flaws and that was huge for me. Now the second part of this is how I know is the one is because he has stood by me through all the hardship and hasn't walked away. Because the one, your one, does not walk away from all the hard, hard pain and and the the past that we've had. Anyway, you know, there's there's been so many times when again he could have walked he could have walked away, I could have walked away. But the one is going to be the one still fighting for you in my opinion. Yeah,

what about you? When did you know that channel was the one? Um? You know you after ten days of even knowing each other in five hours? Yeah, um it was. It was the week I was in Austin, I flew out to Chicago to see her. I was in between the time of off season and before training camp and uh A flu show to see her in Chicago. I had a great time. Were kissed by the monkeys because

we're at the Chicago's. It's so sweet. And it was later that week I remember I was helping miss and his now wife Marissa get picked up like a washing machine or something like office, you know, from somewhere, and when I was living in Baltimore and they asked me like how to go. It was like two days later. I was like, I'm going to marry this girl. It was crazy. And they're like, at first I thought it was just like infatuation because she's a celebrity and it's

just that whole package that goes along with it. I'm like, no, guys, like, you know, I can't explain it. I literally couldn't put it into words. And my buddy miss like he was my partner in crime, like through college and stuff like that, like he knows me in and out, and he was

just like okay, you know. Um. So from that moment on, from that first week of meeting her, and for the same reasons, it's just I'm was really never honest in a relationship to my fullest extent, and to be that honest with somebody that quick and find connection in flaws that you have in character defects, it's like, you know, what, what is this honesty thing? Like, what what is this crazy feeling I'm feeling? So um. I mean it was within the first week of knowing her and like James said,

knowing each other's hearts and where they are. You know, regardless of the things that we've gone through now, it's our hearts are still in the right place. We still want the same things. Um we take we are taking the hardest road to get there. But yeah, thanks yeah, um. So, I mean for her if this guy, you know, she's been with him since high school, A lot of people

would say, go out, explore the world and whatever. But it's like, if she knows this guy is going to stand by her, but she finds out anyone would find out if I did not have doubt with you. Her doubt comes from time to timetable, from high school through college. It's like, I'm just saying, if you have to doubt, listen to your gut, listen to your heart, because all she hears is you've been with so and so, you know ever since you know, high school, Like, don't you

want to go out and see what's out there? She says, I love him more than anything, but I find myself doubting their relationship. I know that's not what it says. That's what people are probably telling her in her ear, in her ear, and if they're not, and she is doubting it. That's yeah, and that's something to be said about that. But also it could just be it could be off. Nothing, could just be from her age and being like, man, I haven't explored what's out there, Holly,

I'm going. I was looking at Facebook. I'm talking directly to you. I was looking at Facebook yesterday and scrolling through, and I saw one of my high school friends with her husband who she was dating when we were in tenth grade. And I will be forty four in June. So they're happy. They have I think four or five kids, some of them are in college now and they have been together since tenth grade. And that's it. That's like, you know, Charlie and Shelley. Yeah, they're so cute to

my friends. One of my best friends from college, it's like him and his you know, wife dated since high school. They were kids basically, and now they're married and I have a daughter, and I mean they're the best people ever. They're so happy, you know, So that's possible, totally possible. All right, Well, you guys, if you have any questions or you need some answers, please please please email me

at Jane Kramer at I heart media dot com. UM, thank you, Mike, thank you Jenn, thank you for winding down with us, and we'll do it again next time.