Dream Lover

blindside me like this? And I told Mike, I was like and the worst part of it was, I was like I had no prospects. Like I just remember going through my phone being like, you didn't even give me a heads up. I didn't have heads up to even think about who a prospect could be. But I was just like nobody. That was the thing that she was the most upset about. She was like, Okay, fine, you left me for your ext but damn give her sister heads up so I could set some things in motion.

And then you're like, you'd have prospects. I was like no, And I was like I started thinking about it. I'm like, you know how we've always you know, like when you're in relationships. You're like, I could probably Texas person, but like, there was nobody in my dream, and there would be nobody now, but I'm just saying there was nobody and it was just I woke up just being like, oh I didn't like that, and then I was just like,

how could you do that to me? And then this morning you woke up, yeah, where you slept with somebody that we know, and you're so unapologetic and unempathetic. You're just like, yeah, okay, whatever changed. I woke up. I was like, what the is your problem? I was like, and I was like, what's dick? I was like, what do you mean? I was like, good morning to you too. I'm like, yeah, good morning, and I was like, what did I do wrong to you last night? Bad taste

in my mouth about you? This morning? Well, but then you get ever it. I just think it's funny. No, it is fun me because we didn't actually I didn't actually cheat on you and you didn't actually leave me for your ex. But the first thing you wake up, you kind of give that personal look, like vivid dreams that you have. Dreams are interesting, dreams are so interesting. But I also think dreams, which I'd love to get a dream expert on because I'm so fascinated by dreams

and what it means. And you know why I was you know, why did you dream about me having an affair with someone? I think we talked to somebody early on in the show from us doing this show, someone talked about dreams and they were describing it more as like metaphork, where it's just like if you dream about a polar bearer, that means you're sad or something like that, and I just I want more more than that. I

want more than just like the metaphor around it. Well, they say that whatever you're thinking about before you go to bed, that could also be what's in your dream. So were you thinking that I was having an affair? See I completely personally, I completely disagree with that in my in my experience, yeah, where it's like things that I'll think about it before bed, I very seldom dream about. Well, we had this dream book growing up and it was a gift I think that my uncle Ray gave to

my mom and it was all about dreams. And it's crazy because you would look in this dream book and even to this day, I think my mom still has it, but it's like torn to shreds and pieces missing, because it's just this book is like this ancient witch book, right, and if you were to dream about like a shark, you go in there and you look at this dream book and it's like, oh, yeah, I am kind of stressed out about money right now or whatever, like the

shark represents you know, or you feel like trapped or you feel interesting, I know. And so then you start to introspectively look at it and you're like, oh, yeah, kind of. But then it's like there's that also shape your like steer you in a direction on your thought process maybe or maybe it's something good, like something's coming.

But then Mike has like a you know, one of your video game games, or like an alien dream, which if I could take my dreams and the next day be able to jot down everything in detail as vivid as it wasn't my dream, I would be the next Michael Bay. Like my dreams would be uh them as movies would be amazing. I feel like you and Eastern would have like the most like Marvel packed word dreams. Easton, do you agree with this if our dreams could become movies,

I don't know that. Like I almost feel like Eastern's like dreams are not what we think they're Eastern. My dreams are not exciting at all. They're they're not like it's like I have to like build a go cart with my ex landlord. Like that's like the dream very disappointing. That mean storry to let you down, to Mike, but that is disappointing, you know. It's anxiety that nfs in really disappointing ways. Like my wife has like crazy dreams where she's like being chased by a serial killer or

like something so insane. And then mine are like always like I had a dream that I left my keys at home and I had to go get them and I was waiting for work, and it's like I had come on these dreams. You're like, come on, You're like, I'm the coolest, I have the greatest ideas, Like give me some Marvel, But no, I have to reoccurring dreams, like the one is that I don't I didn't graduate high school. That's one reoccurring dream. And I always wake

up feeling just like a failure. And but it's like a constant thing where I'm like, oh my god, I'm not going to graduate. I'm not going to graduate like crap. So that's one, and then the second one is whenever I'm sick. And I've had this since I was like Jolie's age. I can remember whenever I'm sick, I have I have like a dream of like a trailer or

like one of those tractors like crushing me terrif. I know, oh my god, this is this is a different thing, but it's it's along the thought of dreams, but it's more of like a day dream where I'll almost like relive a situation but the opposite outcome occurred. We're like, man, say I had a really good football game, right, and I'm like reflecting back on it, I'm like, oh, what if I had dropped that pass? What if I had

done this? And it's like I'll take my back myself back through the memory with the opposite outcome, and then I'll like start feeling like the guilt or shamer on him. I don't have sucked, but like, no, no, it didn't happen. Didn't happen. Yeah, do you ever do that? Cool? Just me?

I do that all the time, Mike, I start, yeah, I do, like I had a really bad relationship like ten years ago that like really messed me up, and I always think about, like I could, like what if I had gotten her pregnant or like gotten married to her, Like I was thinking about that and how different my life would be now, because like I was just making some horrible decisions when I was with this person, and like, I don't know, I think about that all the time,

and then then I feel like, oh, I'm glad I didn't do all that stuff, Like I'm right because I'm happy with the decisions I did make. It's like when you press on a tooth that kind of hurts, you know, like it's like a controlled kind of pain because I don't know if that makes sense, No, that makes sense, but that's what it feels like. M Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I could, if I could, if I do that, like that would just I feel like that cosm anxiety, like the what IF's and that's like,

all right, I went through that. That sucks or that stunk, you know, But if not or if I wouldn't have done this, and I would, it's like I I mean, yeah, definitely, it definitely opens up a rabbit hole that you can start going down. It's but yet it is what if trained And for me it's primarily been sport. It's related, but there's also been times where, like you Easton, where I'm like, well, man, what if what if I never met Janna? You know what I mean? Like, I can't

imagine what my life would be like. It wouldn't be nearly what it is. And what if this didn't happen? What if that didn't happen. It's just, yeah, it's crazy. So that's what those are. It's so interesting that those are the because I don't I don't know if. I wonder if women, Becky, do you do that? Because I don't feel like I do the well what if I didn't make Mike? Where would I be? It's almost just I don't know, um no, because that would cause me anxiety.

I would have an actual panic attack. The what if mindset would like be paralyzing for me. Yeah, go down that path, which is so interesting. I wonder if it's like like mostly guys do that, then that is interesting

I think for me. I think we should have a dream expert, I think and they could probably touch on this topic because it is kind of a similar relation between dreams and like this what if thought process, and I think for me at least personally, it's my way of reflecting and being able to be, you know, express gratitude for the moment to be like Okay, it's like I'm gonna take myself down this bad path of where things could be, but then it brings me back to

where I'm am today and be like, man, thank god I am where I am today, you know what I mean, Like it's yeah, yeah, I mean I'm starting thinking like, well, what if I didn't where I go. I'm like, okay, what if I didn't meet my crazy X in the baby beginning? And then what if I didn't meet you? Well, I'm like, oh my god, then I wouldn't have Jolian Jason. Then I started to get Then I start to get anxiety because I'm like no, no, no no, no, Like I can't imagine like how how would there not be a

world without them? So it's like I just go like kind of Becky's saying, like straight to just like anxiety. I don't like that what if? Now? That what if that I do do is like when I'm on an airplane, I'm like, oh my god, what if I die? That's the what if game I play all the time, which is like so bad. Like, so there we go, that's what women do. Then the women are doing like what if I die? Like I'm I'm always like, am I gonna die? I'm not gonna die? Well what if I

do die? Like because I'm like, oh God, like my kids, like you know, they're young. I hope they remember me. Like I'm already writing letters like if I die, you know. So it's like it's bad. So that's that's what women do. We go a little bit more morbid, and you go like, you know, what if I didn't meet this, you know, Chick fil a drive through, it wouldn't hit the girl

in front of me. By the way, Michael is banned from drive through is because not only did he scrape his car and then McDonald's drive through and he then just hit someone at a Chick fil a drive through. I was like, you are a banned from eating bad food. Even the chick Fila is good. But anyways, I don't have a good track record with Blood Sugar. What's going on? Well, the most recent one I blame on Jolie, but it's okay. How do you blame our daughter. She was asking me

for something. I turned around the helper and what your foot just goes on thing? And my foot like slipped because I was like pushing on the break till you reached back towards her in my foot slip and went forward and loved tap this car in front of me. No, no,

he didn't love tap. And here's the funny thing. He's like, this is this is a very funny story because there's actually a comedy skit by Sebastian Maniscalco and he talks about basically the love tap the scratch, and you know, his wife's like, it's not it's just just a little scrape. And he's like, I'm really curious to see what my

wife thinks is a little scrape. And he goes out there and he's like like you know, and he's like trying to hold back his Italian anger, and he's like the entire he's like the entire like door has to be replaced, Like it's not just a little like you can't buff it out. So Mike's like saying, it's you know, it's gonna be like maybe like a hundred dollars, like just a little like a little scrape. You could like

use a pen to wipe it out. So I look at his phone this morning or when he woke up and I was like, hey, you got a text message. It says maybe Jennifer. I was like, who's maybe Jennifer? And he's like, oh, that's the lady that I hit. So I was like, oh, I want to see the pictures. And so I opened it up. I was like, Babe, that's not a scratch. I was like, that's like her whole back bumper was a scratch across the whole back bumper.

Oh God. Okay, anyways, we're let's take a break, but then we have a really really really awesome guest um two guests coming on, Nate and Kaylee Clemp. So let's take a break and then we'll bring them on. We're going to be wearing masks for a while. It's important to have the right mask protect yourself and others. The N ninety five rest brators can provide a big upgrade to your current mask. There are fakes and counterfeit versions, so you want to be sure you have the approved version.

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or your business Secure components dot Com. I'm super excited to have these next two guests on our show to husband and wife Nate and Kaylee clemp Um, and I'm just gonna let them kind of give their elevator pitch of themselves because they're both extremely accomplished human beings and professionals in their world. So let's have them on. And I will say they have a book out right now called The Eight Marriage, a New Model for a Happier, Stronger Relationship on Amazon. So excited to dive in on

that as well. So here they come. Hello, Hello, Thank you guys so much for coming on Wine Down. We really appreciate it. Obviously our podcast is very relationship focused. So um, when I you know, started to just like read the breakdown everything, I was like, oh my goodness, like, hey, I'm ordering your book right now, and be like I'm just super excited to dive in. So yeah, So we gave our our listeners a little bit of intro on you guys, but you know, you guys are such accomplished

people in your own right. So I want you guys to kind of give us the elevator pitch of yourselves to our list and marriage because you can say it better than any of us can. Well, my name is Nate Clemp. I'm a founding partner at Mindful, co author of the AD eighty marriage with Kaylee. I was a former philosophy professor till I decided to get out of the activity I could gave me a business and become a writer on mindfulness and marriage. And I'm Kayley Clemp.

So co authored a eight marriage here with Nate. And I'm also a leadership executive coach and worked with executive teams and individuals looking at personality and all the tools of conscious leadership. You know, it's it's so cool. Sorry, honey, I was just gonna know. You go ahead, Oh, you go ahead. We see we're such We're such a happy marriage. Radical generosity is everywhere right now, right Um, I'll go ahead, honey.

And what I was gonna say when I was reading the breakdown, you know, I love the combination of both of you because you know, with your background Nate in the in the mindfulness is such a big thing nowadays, especially with mental health and just meditation, those kind of

practices really getting some momentum. And then Kayley, with everything that you do and kind of helping you know, the executive leadership and and the angiogram stuff that you're a specialist in that I read about is just so fascinating because it's like, you guys are like the perfect blend of like what you want someone to like read a book from, like literally, so it's exciting to talk to you guys about that and that you have a book

around that. So because of that, are you guys, I mean, please tell us that you guys still have arguments and you still fight. Yeah, for sure, definitely. And uh, well especially because this week actually today is launch day for this book. So we have been just like in this insane you know, you guys have a look you know what it's like that pre launch period. And simultaneously our daughter broke her risk. There was like a woodpecker outside

of our house trilli into our wall the middle night. Yeah, so so we've had this like perfect storm which is led to just you know, some healthy arguments exactly all the same, like, oh that's what happening is that really your truth right now, because I see it different way. How do you guys handle a conflict when you get

in those situations. So one of the things that we wrote about in the book that we definitely advocate for and also practice is called reveal and request, And basically the whole idea behind it is reveal your inner experience, this is what's going on for me, and then to

make a request of your partner. And when we're in those conflict moments, I think it's really an opportunity just to be known because a lot of times I'm actually surprised that when I say something where I'm like, hey, this is what's going on for me, and I would love it if you did this instead, a lot of times says surprises like oh my gosh, I have no idea, I'm really sorry, and it's it's so fast. Why yeah,

and so's a great question. Yeah. Well, so I think it starts with the precursor to a d which is what we think of this fifty marriage fairness. It's this idea that we're all really familiar, you're with that you know the way to a perfect marriage in this modern age where we're both equals and we want to be in love is to just make everything perfectly fair. And we tried this, man, did we try this for like a good decade, just like trying to make everything fair,

trying to keep score. And it was like a total disaster. I mean it almost ended our marriage, you know, it was It was actually very painful. We can joke about it, but like the fights and the conflict and the feeling of resentment, and so, you know, when we interviewed couples for this book, we found that this really isn't working for anybody, and that there are a couple of reasons for that. One. You know, when you're trying to keep score all the time, it's the perfect setup for all

sorts of resentment. Um. But also we ran into all this interesting research and psychology while writing this book, showing that we consistently overestimate our own contributions to the marriage and underestimate those of our partners. So basically, there are all these cognitive biases at work, making it almost impossible to decide what is or isn't fair. So so I'd say that's really the starting point, is that we're working

against that background. So I mean from there, where we go A d eight is basically saying if you're striving to contribute more than your fair share. The reason that that works better is because it gets contagious. So when both people are really trying to do more than just half, then you get a spirit of generosity, of contribution, of appreciation.

But it's interesting we stopped at a D eighty. We didn't say, like, go a hundred a hundred because we also also think it's really important for each person to have their own purpose and some of their own things that are specific to them. And so there's a way that you go all out a D eight, try to overshoe the name with your partner, but you have to

keep your own purpose. I love that because when you guys are talking about it, I think of you know, I feel like you know people today or maybe they will call it a generational thing if they want to say millennials or whatever, where people have a more of a tendency to say, well, that's not my job. Why am I going to do that? Right? And it's like because I asked you to or because it needs to

get done, you know. And it's one of those things where I think Janna and I've fallen into a healthy version of that where it's like, yeah, we have the things kind of like you're saying, Kayley, that we primarily do ourselves, but then there's things that overlap. So we've been maybe living some of the eight eighty without even knowing. I bet you have. And it's it's interesting actually, because I think what you're describing is when you actually get clear on some of those roles, it frees up a

lot of energy. So when you know, hey, these are the things that I do and these are the things that Jannah does, it actually it relieves a lot of tension where you don't have to fight about each and every chore or each and everything that you go, oh yeah, I take those. You take those, and there are a couple where we want to have a conversation. I totally

agree with you. And for me, that's where resentment goes away, because when when when it's just like I'm like, oh, I have to do this too, and I have to do this too, and I'm like, oh what is he doing? And it's like resentment just build so much that then I start screaming at him about a lamp shade. There's nothing to do about the lamp shade has everything to

do about this list of resentment that's been building. So yeah, once we started doing the roles and be like, okay, you know this is what the roles are, this is what it looks like. Are we happy? Cool? And it's been really good. I feel like we've had less conflict because we've we've taken those on and then we're not building resentment because I feel like resentment is so deadly, especially for you, for both of us, because I brew anger and I feel like resentment is pretty bad. And

with addiction as well, right, Oh for sure. I mean that's that's a catalyst for a lot of acting out behavior, no matter what your addiction is. And Keylee, where does the India Graham stack up in all of this? Like, how is that benefited y'aw's relationship because I know that's something that's also starting to take off because I just to it probably just a couple of years ago on an episode of our podcast when we had someone on, So I know there's it's it's newer out there. So

how does that help you guys in your marriage? Yeah? So the angiogram is my favorite of all the personality models and a sudden all of them who've got like Myer Springs in the Disk and the Workman. Is that your favorite? It's my favorite because it's about why, why are you doing what you're doing? So not only do you get really predictable behavioral studies and really really clear understanding of what people are most likely to do, especially

when they're stressed, but it's about why. And that frees up a lot of empathy because when somebody's doing something, you're like, are you serious right now? That that's your strategy. There's a lot more generosity of spirit if you know this is what they're striving to do. So, for example, if somebody feels like they're being really controlling or really overbearing or super overly intense, but you know that they're in aid a challenger, you can in some ways reentert

that with some empathy. We're like, Okay, they're striving to be strong, they're striving to make sure they have enough free sources. How can I bring some mature boundaries and some compassion and also my own limits to the conversation, knowing that that's an effective way to have some respect. So what are you guys? What are y'alls? And your gram number? Yes, so my home basis one. So that's the reformer. So I'm a nine, which is the peacemaker.

It's the best type to be. Marriage are pretty mellow. Yeah, exactly, sorry, honey on one below that, So I'm the challenger, the challenger. Yes, she's a two. It's so interesting. That's a really common pairing that we'll see aids paired with nine s pret of it and eights and twos. And you actually, I don't know how well you know the on your groom, but you run the line between eight and two, which is the service access. So what what is something to look out for in our marriage with being a two

and an eight. That's that's a great question. So one of the things to watch out for is that eights are typically pretty clear with their requests, um, and so they'll kind of come at you and as a too, if you're not mindful, your tendency will be to give more to someone else than to advocate for yourself, and so it can start to create a spiral where you're over giving over contributing, and that I think you named

it Jane a little bit earlier. It comes to sort of this dark underbelly of resentment, and so watching out for how you kind of hook each other in that way. I mean to a T. I mean you just you spelled it all out there. That is spun on. If I know your indiogram type, it might also be psychic. Yeah, absolutely, because I mean that's exactly what happens. Janna will get resentful because she'll see me taking time for myself. I have more hobbies than you can probably even list, and

it drives your nuts, but I'll take that time. I know how important that time is for myself to kind of ground myself her. I have to force her to do own thing, you know, because she just won't stop, just constantly be doing something, whether it's for the family or for work, or for this or for that. I'm like, just take a second, do something for you. But then I get resentful when he's doing something for himself because I'm like, well, I would love to do something for

myself right now, but you're choosing to do something else. Well, And it's so funny, right because the list of people who you could help seems to be endless, and so there's a like, I'll take time for myself just as soon as everybody he needs help has been helped. We'll shoot that list is just never ending. No, it's not.

And Nate, what about you with the mindfulness, with your kind of history and that, how has that benefited y'all's relationship, you personally and for couples that are listening to this, Yeah, absolutely well. I would say, you know, one of the most challenging parts of our marriage was about twelve years ago. I was finishing grad school. I had a serious bike accident, and um, I did not know how to deal with

significant stress and significant challenge. So I kind of just collapsed under the weight of that all and I got, you know, very anxious and depressed. And we call those the dark years, and it was really it was a very intense time. And I knew that for me to get back into this marriage and into my life, really I had to figure out how to manage my own mind, which you know, here I was grad student getting a

PhD at Princeton. You'd think that they would teach you that, but not at all, Right, Like, that was the one skill I had never learned. So so that sent me on this journey of really starting to understand, like, what are the practices and technologies we can use to essentially

train the mind? Um, and it's been you know, twelve or so years, and I've just slowly seen how I've been able to get back into full engagement in my marriage and my life and just sort of reclaim a little bit of control around my my emotions, mental states, etcetera. And I would say it benefits me and our marriage in that Nate has more space. So when something happens, right you were asking us a little bit ago about conflict, there's this space where he's just not nearly as reactive.

He can sort of take that deep breath, bring some peace to it, and that helps us engage with each other so much more thoughtfully. How does he do that? I don't want to hear it, I am. I will say because of my practice, right, it was the mindfulness because that that definitely helps because um, he's um really he was was. I still have tendencies, yes, but to have that like really initial outward reaction and it's like me, I'm like, whoa like please have a conversation, like I

just want to talk about this. Um. Yeah. So I can definitely vouch for that that I've had the same experience Nate. We're just taken, you know, which I've gotten away from the last probably month. But taking that time in the morning and doing some meditation as I'm reading has allowed me to have that space that you're talking about, Kaylee, to not react immediately and just be like, Okay, wait a second, let me process this just for a second. It's amazing how just that one second can change the

whole narrative of that conflict. How long again? How many years have you guys been married? For? Twelve days ago, days ago? That's awesome, was there? I mean, obviously there were some dark times in your marriage, but what's one thing that you've like, you still even after fifteen years, you have to be mindful of to, you know, to kind of look in the mirror and be like, I still have to work on this piece about this piece of me. Yeah, it's such a great question for me.

It's actually kind of central to the topic of the book, which is my mindset of fairness. That I really easily fall into a thought process of I'm doing more, I'm trying harder, that's not fair, and so I have to just consistently we're mind myself, I'm not seeing everything that he's doing, right, Like I'm intimately familiar with every dishwashed and every trash can emptyed. But to remind myself, like, how long did it take to practice those spelling words

with our daughter? And as I do that and really intentionally shift to more of a framework of generosity and appreciation, it helps me kind of curb that tendency. But I watch it, it's a yeah, it's like a score keeping. He says that to me a lot, like I'm keeping score, and I'm like, well, no, it's in my mind. I'm like, no, it's not about keeping score. But hearing that, I'm like, oh, that's that's kind of like keeping score. Yeah, it's kind of like keeping score. And it's funny. In my tally,

I always seem to be ahead. I would actually just add to that, there's the score keeping piece, but there for me, there's also something about like shifting from my mindset being about me and my success being about us and what's best for us together. You know, I think we met in high school. We were sort of like

type A, you know, really good students. We went out in the world trying to make our mark as individuals, and that mindset of kind of individual exceptionalism has been very hard to unlearn, you know, it's still there, Like I we still fall into it. You know, this is my thing and I need to I need to be amazing at it, and I need time to do it.

And so a big shift for us has been just trying to go back to what's best for us, like as a couple, and and how are my contributions part of this thing that's really great for us, not just

what's best for me. You know that's so fascinating because I feel like that's such a simple concept, right, but so difficult for every relationship to kind of grasp hold of until you're For a lot of people it's too late, right, and they just decide, hey, this is gonna work out, and they think it's gonna be different with somebody else, and it's not because I know for us, I mean again, I mean Nate, I'm mirror that experience where my former career was all about me and it's all about what

I had to do and perform on the field and take care of me. And then I meet Janna and then I retire and it becomes all about her, and then it's like, how do I have that mindset to go from me me, me, me me and my own success too, you know, supportive or we now and and make it about the greater good and make it about each other. But when you're not used to doing that, which I feel like no matter your profession, as we're young adults, you're just focused on your career, right being,

being successful in achieving your goals. So I mean, if that's something that you can get they can get out of the marriage book, then that's I mean, that's no brainer to read that. Yeah, did you guys struggle writing the book together? How would you answer that? I would say I would say that roles in the book writing process were pretty clear and so that made it easier. But I will say the end of the book was crazy.

So we turned in sort of our final draft and then we got back our visions, which I think it's fair to say we're substantial from the editor. Right at the end of March as it was you know, crazy quarantine. You know, our daughter was down home from school. This is when we were still trying to like sanitize the outside of the salad box, and that part was extremely stressful. So I think sort of the struggle as you added

extra responsibilities. It wasn't it certainly wasn't a walk in the park, but it was helpful to at least have a sense of what we were reaching that we had such clear roles that it almost mitigated most of the conflict we would have had, which is actually, in some ways a gift that came from having written co authored books before, because if we learned some of those lessons along the way to make sure that we were really clear.

What do you do when you guys are in conflict and you have to have these interviews and it's like right now I don't like you and we're fighting or in how like sometimes I'm like, are we frauds? Because

look at we're we're a mess and we're fighting. But yet in our book we preach about this and we're not even doing it like we have like we don't We're not doing it right now, you know, in this moment, And it's like, do you guys ever have that where you're just in such conflict that you you're just like, this is this is hard? And why aren't we listening to what we've written on the pages? Yeah? Absolutely, I mean I think that for us, this whole thing feels

like a process of you have a certain ideal. In our case, it's this E eight marriage ideal that we're trying to strive for and we're constantly falling short of it. And really the key is like, can we quickly become aware of the fact that we're getting caught and then shift And so, like just three hours ago, we had a conflict. It was about you know, all these like COVID safety protocols. You know, Kaylee had a friend over

helping her with some makeup stuff. We have a launch party tonight, and I was like, you know, that wasn't our agreement about some of these safety protocols. And I was kind of piste off because I was like, you know, you said you couldn't do this, that and the other thing, but you're doing this thing with your friends, but can you really put on makeup without, you know, with a mask on? I mean so so yeah, So like here we are, We're about to launch a book on marriage

in like five hours and we're having this conflict. But but we did. I would say, like about an hour later, we were driving and and I was like, hey, let's let's go back. Can we get clear on that? You know, we kind of we kind of revealed our experience, but it did feel like we got back totally. I think that's what you're both saying though, that there's an aspiration,

but we're all human. And I think that's so important because gosh, if people read the book and they're like, oh my gosh, they're perfect and they never have any conflict or any fight, that's not true. But I think it does give a framework where when we're off, there's at least a path back. It's not necessarily instant, but there's a path back. I think it's cool too, because

you know, I'm rooting for you guys. There's so many books about marriage out there, and but it's like, even though with some of the concepts you guys have shared that you're talking about in the eighty eight Marriage Book and then what we've talked about, they're similar in ideals, but they're said so differently, but with the same concept that it's gonna it's gonna hit people a different way, you know, depending on how people receive information. So I'm

personally rooting for you guys. It's awesome. I love the concept of what you guys are doing. Ordering it on Amazon right now, the eight Marriage and also so we a way to connect. Um, we read a marriage book together. Um, so this is going to be one next one so oh I'm still excited. And then after we read it, can we get we have you guys back on the

show to talk to you. We'll definitely do that once we get finished here, uh soon because I'd be a lot of fun to really dive into the deep stuff on And what we do is we take notes on the stuff that we're reading and what comes up for us. So we love to process the things that come up for us when we're reading your book, and that would be a lot of fun to dive in about that.

Oh my gosh, so exciting. Do you guys have an UM website so that our listeners can find you guys at two but also go to Amazon and get the eight marriage. Yeah, we're at a eight marriage dot com and marriage on Facebook and Instagram, so pretty easy. Yeah. Awesome. Well you guys, thank you so much. UM have a great launch. So excited for you guys and can't wait to see on the on the list. Thank you so much, anytime anytime to talk with you about the book when

you're done. Absolutely all right, Thank you guys, guys. Hey a great job. Hey, thank you. As the recording. Stop. Great job. You guys did great, awesome, I know, Oh my gosh, this is so exciting for real. I'm so so looking forward to talking with you about it when you like take your nuge, like, so what about this part? Yeah, I love you. How how like informal and fun it is? You know we've been we were on Good Morning America three yesterday and it was like, this is really fun,

how great? Thank you, thank you so much. We understand. We empathize with how this book tour is so and take deep breaths and just have fun. And I get it. Michael, He's like, he'll be like, wait, so I couldn't go do this, but you can go hang out with your friend over here. And I'm like, well, you know, like it's a necessity. Here they are and you look beautiful. So they did a great job. All right, guys, have a good one. Congrat YouTube. I love them. Oh they

were awesome people fifteen years. Yeah. It's just it's so inspiring because especially when you hear that they had a few bad years and you know, they had some darker years. It's just it's just true. There's no perfect I don't believe there's a perfect marriage, and I think that's okay. I think that's just as long as people can grow together and do the work. That's what makes a lasting marriage is doing the work. Yeah, And it's just you know,

we've been fortunate to share our journey. These people, Kaylie and Nader are fortunate to share their journey and use their platforms. So it's just awesome that there are other people out there willing because again, they're gonna have they might have a different audience that here their things better

than they heard our book or something. So it's just the more people that do this, I really root for everyone in that genre because I want people to be educated about these relationships and be willing to make them work, you know. All Right, well, let's take a break and then I'm sure marky Mark has got some emails for us. Let's do it. Okay, Hey Mark, do we have any emails? We have a couple of good ones. Actually, this is from Alex. She says, I'm from South Jersey and my

husband's from Long Island, New York. That's where we're currently living. We're moving back to New Jersey in a few weeks because I just need to be near my family and I've really struggled with that, especially since my dad got diagnosed with brain cancer three years ago. I struggle with anxiety and depression, and being in New York has been hard. I have a tremendous amount of guilt that my husband has to leave everything. But I know this will make me happier and honestly both of us as a couple.

But I also fear it's going to be a strain for us. Do you guys struggle being away from family? Can you give me advice for not feeling so guilty? Am I being selfish? I'm so afraid of my husband being miserable and resenting me. First of all, I'm sorry that's awful that your dad is going through that. Um. I don't think you're being selfish at all. I mean, if you're able to move right, that's and I mean the husband doesn't didn't say he's upset, is he? No?

I don't say anything. I think here, Alexa, you just have to trust the fact that if your husband had an issue or had feelings around it, he would tell you. And that's his responsibility to tell you because if you ask him if he's willing to do this, and he was, and he said, I understand, and let's do it. You have to take him for his take him for his word, and if he tries to hold that against you, that is his work. That is all on him, and that

would be extremely unfair to do in the relationship. Yeah, of him. Um, I also think too, what could be nice and may be helpful for helpful for your husband too, as if you said, you know, just check in with him like hey, and and not thank him, but be like I appreciate you for doing this and you know coming here and you know how much this means to me.

So I think when the person that is willing to make this move with you, just if they feel appreciated to know that, I think that would go a long way, right. I Mean it's like if you know, you coming here to while I'm working and filming, and if I didn't appreciate you'd be like why am I like what? You know? For sure, but just to be like, hey, I really appreciate you coming here and being with the kids and being with us, and like thank you, it really means

a lot to me. Yeah. I mean everyone likes to be validated, especially when they're making sacrifices. But that's what especially in marriage is all about, right, you make sacrifices for one another for the greater good and just support each other and so that you love each other. And you know, even so you're going from Long Island and New Jersey, you're not going that well your South Jersey. So yeah, that is a little further, but you know

it's not across the country, um, you know. And in terms of do we struggle being away from family, UM,

I don't think we do. I know I don't personally. Um. But having said that, it's now with kids and like my sister having kids, that's the part I struggle with because I would love, you know, and then with our niece and nephew you know my um Jianna's brother or niece and nephew on that side, that's the stuff I wish we were all closer with is to be around the kids more, be around the nieces and nephews, have our kids be around the grandparents. So that's the biggest

thing for me. Yeah, And I think wherever you are to you you you make family like your friends become family and in a sense too, And if I could, I don't think I would want to. I love my family don't get me wrong, but I thought I'd like to be able to just visit them as well. Yeah, you and I are both that way where our friends have always been like family does so. Good question, and this is from Lisa Jianna. I'm currently five months pregnant and see myself as a workaholic and definitely put my

job above other things, even my relationships. Sometimes. How do you if I of the balance between family and work And does Mike ever have to tell you to slow down or try to put less on your plate? Yes, Lisa, I do. Somehow she's able to balance family and everything that she does. Um. And also I'm I'm able to understand that if she has to be on her phone a little bit more around times, you know, she's good at like you know, no, we don't do any phones

at dinner. We don't, you know, when the kids are trying to get our attention, we're going to call each other. I'll be like, hey, so it's calling your name. And early on I had an issue with Janna having to be on her phone so much, but then I understood, you know, that's what's keeping a roof of our head primarily, you know, so I have grace with that, but I do try to tell her to slow down, because you're not going to solve all the world's problems in one day.

I have to force her to take time for herself, literally have to force her. And well, I still I'm trying to get through that thick skull of hers. Is that by her taking time for herself, taking a night to hang out with friends, taking a day, taking whatever, it's not just helping her. It's helping everybody. It's helping me, it's helping her, it's helping the kids, it helps the whole crew. If you just take the time every now and then. Yeah, it's just hard. But I will say

I make sure from something for me. Well, I'll say this too. It's I think it's hard for me to to balance because my time for myself is working out, and so I would feel guilty if I'd have to ask ask for additional time. So that's something that I'm constantly working at because usually we're like, hey, you take an hour, I take an hour to do and that hour is usually I work out, And yeah, I would love to be able to just relax and take a bath or do this or you know, so you know,

it's one of those things I'm working on. I'm working on it, but again asking for what I need, ask for what you need, Lisa, because you're not going to be able to do it all by yourself and have your partner help you. All right, Well, that was a great show, um, and we will see you guys next week. All right, later