Wind Down with Jane Kramer and Michael Coffin and I'm her radio podcast.
Mom January and I'm alone, not all, I'm not alone. Easton Tory. Are you there, We're here, We're from here, Easton. You sound rough right now, buddy.
You know, I hear this thing about the man cold, and I'm trying to stomp on that because I'm powering through man and I'm getting my work done.
I feel like we could have a whole show about the man flu. Does that mean that you're not enjoying some good drinks lately?
You know, I'm still finding time to have a party. You know, I'm feeling my wife is not sick, so she's she's really kicking back lately.
Let me tell you, so, I've been having these Bachelor parties, right because you know, with the whole like theme of like Mom January. I don't know. I'm just like, this is like let's all meet up and then watch the Bachelor. So we've been doing that and it's been I really like, I want to talk about the girls, but I mean, I want to like keep the focus. But I I have to tell you this is gonna sound so crazy, but I feel like welly have my two girlfriends coming in.
They're going to be here any second. But I've been telling a lie, oh because I know you want to know about it.
I like actually do.
So like I'm because you know me, like I'm like a red wine drinker, right, So I've been trying to like spice things up a little bit for you know, the the mom like Bachelor viewing or whatever. So I don't know if anyone watches my Instagram, but I've I posted about it probably like a month ago. It's did you see it, toy? It's like the drink works.
Yes, yes, I saw that because you were like you were sitting on that by your bar tender, right, I mean your bar, yeah.
Like the barer counter and so yeah, so like Catherine, who's one of the girls sitters gonna be here because she's always just like you only drink wine, like you know, and whenever we go somewhere, like you're never like having like cocktails, And I was just like, well that's changing, because honestly, the truth is, I never know how to make them, which is why because I'm like, it's easy to uncork a bottle, like it's the one is done,
it's a one and done. But when it comes to like a margarita or like a Moscow mule, I'm like, I don't even know like what like liquor goes in there, because I'm not like baked on liquor. So I've done this thing for Drink Works and it is the most incredible thing I've ever had. I got to feel like I'm like doing a spot for them right right, I
looking online right now. I'm like no, So they come over and I'm like, cause, I just like trying to spice it up this month a little bit, you know, like I've been doing like a lot of work on myself. I'm trying to like spice up my life. And so I'm like, you know what, I love my red wine, but I'm gonna try something new. And so when I had the Drink Works thing, I was like, yes, So I've been making these margaritas and you guys, it's been like my biggest lie because they're like, how do you
make this? And I'm like, well, you know, it's just a little bit of like this and that and right and then I think I said, like, I don't even remember what liquor I said, But Catherine totally ousted me. She's like, that's not in a margarita and I was like, no, Like, I'm totally out. So I had to show them what it was. But I don't know. I'm just like, God, this is totally this is crazy. But it's almost like you know those pods. Yeah, they send you pods of
everything that's in, so that's liquor. It has the liquor in it, and it also has the ingredients of what comes in like a margarita, so you don't have to buy aMule. You don't have to buy two separate pods necessarily. It's like it's all in one. It's all in one. So literally, you put the pod in the drink works thing and you press the thing down and outcomes a perfectly tasting margarita. It blows my mind. And I did it to Mike the other day too. I was like, Hey,
how do you want a mask on Mule? And he about fell over and I was like, no, no, baby, is seriously do you want a mask on Mule? And he was just like do you even know what that is? And I was like, I'm about to rock your world, baby. So I went into the bar and he like, obviously forgot that I have this amazing thing in the bar, and so I made him a drink and he was just like, oh, it's drink Works, and I was like, yeah, honey, but come on, give me like credit where credit is due.
But no, it's awesome. It comes with the liquor in it, the one pod, all the stuff, so it's awesome anyway. So I just you know, if anyone's having any parties out there, I would definitely suggest trying to get the Drink Works.
I mean, with all these award shows coming up, it's literally the perfect thing because then you're not stuck behind the bar all night long, so it's perfect. They have like a Cosmopolitan, margarita, Sangria Moscow mule, my tie.
I don't even know what's in my tie exactly. So I get what you're saying.
Why it's so easy You just put it in and then it's perfect because then while you're judging everybody's outfits, being like that's great, who wore.
It best, and you're just drinking your drink.
And I can't believe Jana just said she's moving on from wine.
I'm not moving on. I'm just now expanding because now I don't have to. I don't need to know what's in it because it's pre made for me. So thank you. So I just like this is this is like my shout out to Drink Works to say thank you for not only you know, making super Bowl and everything looking great soon. I appreciate you. Yeah, I was gonna ask you.
Also, nothing's worse than a strong drink. You know when people don't have the portions correct?
Do you feel like fi thousand percent?
Do you feel like it's perfect?
I'm not the kidding with you, Tori. It's the it's the coolest thing ever. I mean, it's it's like a cure rig but with the pod, it's just it's it has everything measured in there. It's fantastic, I know. So just give it a ring. All you have to do is be red carpet ready the Drink Works Home bar By Kerri. Get one now on drinkworks dot com and please enjoy responsibly. Oh my ladies are walking in perfect timing. I feel like it's the end of an era and
it's really making me sad. I have closure issues to see end. Well, Mom, January is coming to an end.
Can't we just keep going?
Is this the launch of Mom February.
Did we just make something?
I don't want to break up you guys.
I was driving in today and I was like, I really just don't want this to be over.
It's been really therapeutic.
I had like the.
Laguna Beach theme song playing in my head. It was like very sad and graduation feeling.
What was the theme song?
I'm not a singer. There's only one of those in this room. Don't make me do it, and it's Easton.
Crickets.
I'm pheready go. No, it's funny because I was I think we should do a segment at least once a month. I agree. I don't want to break up with you guys.
So yeah, no, this, yeah, yeah, this is.
How it went in high school too.
We took a break before we broke up because I have like issues separating from people.
That's really funny. I'm going to go back to that. But my therapist, so we've just been doing the month of January besides you know Mom, you know Mom month has been just like real deep in like therapy, and so I probably didn't even know if I should say this, but my therapist, you know, we're doing just kind of all different kinds of work and like that one letter
that she made me write. But then she emailed me today and was just like, hey, for our session tomorrow, I'd like it if you brought a picture of your father and then other men that you've been in relationships with. I was like, it was like, define relationship. I was like, because we're gonna have a rolodex here, like what do you what are you thinking? So she's just like, she's like, you're so funny. She's like, no, just men that have impacted your life. And I was like, oh, this is good.
What is just second through the home run? That are we talking like high school sweetheart to like you know the you know? But she said here right, let me just pull up the email because she was very specific about it.
Man, we just went through this last night. I had a girlfriend and I were talking about what relationships were to men and what relationships are to girls.
This is really in alignment. No, That's why I said define relationship because I've had there's there's been different relationships and she goes, oh, yeah, this is our thing. Hi, Jane, for our session tomorrow, please bring in a photo of your father and each man you have been in a relationship with She says, we're going to use these in our work, thank you?
Is it like a lineup? Like I envision it to be like pick one of these in a crime.
To which I said, amy, ha, define relationship and she said she was okay, you are hilarious. And she goes those relationships that you consider impactful in your life and emotionally meaningful, good or bad. Again, we asked a fine relationship. So it's like, what are you looking at?
I'm just looking at Oh she's.
Looking just doing a quick Google search, you know. I'm just like, But then I started thinking about too, and this is I'm going so all over the all over the place. But some of these I don't really have pictures of because I'm like, she'd just like bring my Instagram, like google Google. Some maybe can't be googled, you know. We hope not, actually, I hope. Yeah.
The Google lists are probably the most secure relationship we've had.
I just I'm a little nervous about it. The I'm like, what is she gonna do you have like a type? No, I mean it doesn't seem to me. Catherine's so funny. I remember I called you the other day and I was like, hey, if you want to go pick me up, I'll three at Whole Food's real cute high school boy. I remember his name. What's his name? Bailey?
Bailey?
I love you.
So I'm like, because I thought Bailey on the rocks. So I hang up and press and goes who's that And I said Janna and I'm a horrible liar. And he's like, what's she calling about?
Bailey? And I said, oh, and.
I just got really hot and sweaty, and he's like what, And I was like, it's just a mom thing.
Is really funny.
There's this guy the check out and he's like really, and I'm like, don't worry, instacar. It's not like that's a problem for me.
High school boy.
He was so college, don't be a creepy. I don't really.
No.
I was just we were just having a day and so and so I called her and I was while I was in the check and I just felt so ugly. I felt so mom and just like you know, just I just like front the old sweatshirt and then there's a sweet Bailey, Hey, ma'am, make ready to check out, and I was just like, you're so cute, and you know, he just was like so kind and so sweet and just he was just like, I hope you have a beautiful day. And I was just like, you're beautiful. Man.
One more common, I'm gonna have to call security.
So then I called Kristen, was just like, hey, if you want a really good pick me up right now, like go to Whole Foods Aisle three. And I said, did you hear my tires squealing out?
Did you go to Hold.
Foods right off? Do you tell?
And then you're gone?
I did tell Michael though, just in this in the defense because I thought about that. I was like, man, So I just called Kristen and I told her because I'm like I would be upset. Well actually, but I mean the family. He's like a high school college kid. So I told told him. I was like, you know, I still got it. I had a ma'am, ma'm, ma'am, ma'am. Do you maybe I don't? I love you so much? But if we're ma'am, you're right, but it maybe it? Then okay, So to full circle this, it flashed me
back to then my high school sweetheart. So like for tomorrow session, It's like, it's interesting the relationships that have impacted us in our life. So or vision you walking in with like a yearbook stack. Well this was when I was, you know, thirteen, but no, it was. It's so interesting because all the work that I've kind of been doing this month, she it all goes obviously back to like my dad issues, which again we're great now, but it's just so funny how each relationship you still
bring a piece of that into each relationship. I brought more than a piece. What did you brought? Like luggage?
And I was like, don't look behind the curtain, just say yes to marry me and we'll talk about this later.
We'll deal with this in therapy later.
Yeah, but anyways, sorry about my little rant. I love your ma'am. Ma'am do you still have it? I don't know. I think I got enough. Mam. He wants you to pack his lunch.
There's a different.
But anyways, I've really enjoyed mom month, and as excited as I am to go back to relationship talks, I do think that we should get We should do at least a once a month. My secret ballot right now and we can all put our votes in. Sorry, Mike, you're voted off the island. Off, Well, no, because one so I did questions before I left, and then I said ask questions and they said, can you and your girls do a mom podcast all the time? And I was just like, I yes, yeah, thousand percent best piece
of advice for a first time mama to be. So I told them to send in some questions and that was one. What do you think your best piece of advice would be?
Mine would be scheduling. Scheduling what like getting the baby on a schedule early?
Oh yeah, So someone asked when you talked about that, how do you get someone them like, which schedule do you? Because there's so many different sleeping schedules.
I think for you, I mean, I like the oh gosh, I can't remember what it was called, but it's similar to baby Wise, but not so strict. It was a little bit less. Maybe furber I could be making that up. I'm not sure, but I just think the schedule in general is what helps and just having that, you know, set bedtime very important.
Sorry now I'm just laughing. I'm sorry. I just flashed back to our group text between the three of us and can we please we.
Need to.
Kristen sent a photo of well a video a video and then Love pooped in her.
When she was in mom hell in the bathroom for an hour.
I'm the number one girl. And then.
She yeah, because she went in the swim suation.
I was in we forget, Oh what a mess? Do you want my advice? You want to talk about poop and a swimsuit?
No?
But I agree with Catherine's I think schedule is very important. I think babies need it. I think it's great. You guys are both really good at that. We did baby Wise. Yeah, but you also, like with your husband and stuff, that's hard because he's on the road. That's hard to Yeah.
I just think that helps you your sanity. It does help your help mom sanity.
Yeah.
But I also think they are better adapted to the kids.
Absolutely, you know what I mean.
But they know what to expect. Yeah. But we did the every feed play What is it? I think it was. I think it was baby Wise, play Place Sleep, Yeah, something like that. But it did. It worked for Jolie, it worked for jas like we were super obsessed with that. What's your best piece of mom advice?
I actually got this advice from Jesse James Decker in interview love.
This.
I read this while I was pregnant with lovebugs. This had to be about four years ago, and Jesse said, do one thing a day that makes you feel like yourself, like you could be like I think for her, I remember this example. I don't know if it was hers or someone else that she cited, but she said, like, she loves to wear lipstick and it makes her feel
like a person. So she was like, there was days basically where she looked broke down and oversized sweatpants with like dirty hair, but she would wear lipstick.
And so I kind of adopted that, and I did.
I was at home with love the first year a lot alone, and I would like, for me, it was curling my hair, and so I would just that seems so silly, but it just made me feel like a person. I never left the house. It just reminded me to like, it made me feel pretty or something.
But I I liked.
She was like, whether it's a hot cup of coffee, whether it's lipstick or reading a book, or just pick one thing a day that you is attainable for you to do that makes you feel like yourself. And that saved me a lot of days. Silly had nothing to do with the baby. But maybe that's why I helped.
No, I loved that. I think it helps probably postpart him too.
Yeah, yeah, because I mean literally, just sitting in a condo for like three hundred and sixty five days, it's a little wears you out. Yeah.
I think my best piece of advice for a first time mama to be is I remember the first two weeks after having both kids, and remember how like, you know, you just start crying for no reason. Oh yeah, not to hold in that cry, let it out. It feels so good. I remember the second time with Jace, I was like, yeah, I don't know, it just felt gay, like just embrace the ugliness of it all, because it goes by so fast, too fast. Like I look at Jason now and I'm just like, you're not a baby anymore.
How did you know you were to have kids? You don't really.
For you?
Uh, I just I want it was so fast with us, Yeah, I mean it was like.
But I will say, in previous relationships and in a previous marriage, every time when someone would say when are you guys gonna have kids because we had been together so long, I would say I'm not ready yet. But then when I met my person. It was fast, fast, fast, and I was like, oh, I, I'm gonna have babies with you?
Like it?
Just so that felt maybe when you feel like you have a real partner.
Yeah, cap I wanted babies for so long.
It was just for me.
It was like, I'm married, when are we having babies?
Yeah? That's kind of same me too, Yeah, love me some babies.
I always wanted babies. I just didn't want to raise a husband and babies, understood. Yeah, So I actually would like to say, if you feel like you could be raising your husband and babies, this might not be the time to have babies.
Sorry. One of the questions I just got was are you ticklish? That's very interesting relevant to really going to content that much as it is, just I didn't know about Jane. Someone asked, how do you deal with the anger of infertility and not being able to have babies? Would you like to start with that?
Kristen, Well, we I always I carry a bit of guilt at how easily we get pregnant because I have a lot of friends that have dealt with infertility. But we didn't always keep the babies, so we lost one between our kids, and that was rather devastating for a long time. That's actually when you and I got to me in my brain. That's when you and I got close because you were my first call when I pulled out of the parking lot and I was like, I don't know how to lose a baby.
What do you do with the anger?
Though? Because I think that piece is I wasn't actually angry as much as I was sad. It didn't go to anger to me until other people were in sensitive to it. That's when I got angry, like just dumb comments, just like like do you get annoying people like well, at least you know, yeah, just anything. I just was like, until you've walked it, you just don't know, you really don't.
So best just to say I'm sorry that you're going through that.
Yeah, I mean, anger is probably because there's some deep healing that needs to be done. But again, like I don't feel like I'm even fair. It's not fair for me to even speak on that because we were able to have babies, three pregnancies, two babies.
Do you usually go to sadness?
M h?
Where do you usually go when you're when you're upset? Not upset, but I mean when you when you start to feel something like, what is your first feeling?
That's a good question. I mean, I've never experienced something as I'm.
Not even talking with day, just like any arguments with with your husband.
I think I start out angry, but I cry when I'm angry, sames I'm sad, which I don't think. I really just think I'm so angry. I cry for whatever reason. Yeah, but I usually start out angry and then go to a sad place, I guess, but I start out with anger, so I'm I mean, I don't know in that position if I would have gone, you know, to anger first or sadness, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, not been in your shoes, so I know.
I was just when you when I was reading that, I was just like, how anger? Because I think it depends on the situation. But like I know when I lost it was I go anger first. So I'm always just like, how do you not go angry first? Because I like, I want to do that more in my life. Yeah, not go angry first. I'd like to go angry first a little more, so maybe we can help each other. No, no, no, no, no, no, I think it's better not because underneath the anger is
just hurt yea and pain and sad. I just get straight to that. I guess I just skip that and go straight to devastated. So that's the good news, guys. Let's take a break. So update on the diapers. I am keeping Jolie in pull ups at night because let me say this, just to recap on the Joe Frost thing, she came out of her room at least thirty times. I was texting you girls like I'm about to lose my mind, but I'm doing what she said and I
had the thing off too. So during all of that, she then pees herself and it's like ten o'clock a night. I'm just like, I cannot handle this, so I've put a pull up on her, and but ever since then, she has not gotten out of her bed. So for me, I'm like, let's just do one thing at like one when at a time, I'm like, I'm not pulling two things off at once. But she has not gotten out of her bed.
I'm so happy.
I mean, great job. It was from seven o'clock to ten o'clock at night. I need bed. Yeah, And then I'm like I'm like, like I would do it five times and I say, Mike, yeah, I'm about to lose it, like like you know, pass out like whatever, like high five, tap out. And then he would do it and he's like, I'm about to lose it. I was like, just don't he was, He's he started to have He's a jolleye. Stop. I'm like, no, no, no, no, don't give her any satisfaction, pick her up, put her back in bed.
Yeah.
So was it just one night? Then one night she said she's hours.
See if you listen for three hours but you did it, isn't it worth it?
It's worth it now it is.
I feel really bad about giving you a shame about the pull ups when you said and then she peter her Oh god, I take it back.
I'm sorry, she.
Is.
How is I love doing? Though? Okay, so.
Bless this little one. Uh Sunday, I was like, okay, so no pull ups. I waited till I had reinforcements at home, had dead dah and I was like, all right, it's no pull up Sunday.
And this is how it goes. So pull ups ever, moved out of the bathroom and at ten am she starts holding her little booty outside of her little big girl panties and she said, oh, I really got a poop. I just need to pull up.
And this went on all day and I just kept saying encouraging, like we can go to the potty at any time. Let me know when you're ready to go to the potty. So she's scared of it hitting the water. This is early on traumatic and Air quotes experience for her when she started peeing on the potty. Anyways, we make it through Sunday. She does not have to she will not poop, so she's just holding it all day.
Monday morning, here we go to swim and she's in the sweetest little ballerina one piece and she's at swim and I'm like, great, put her in swim with her little instructor and I hit the treadmill for a minute and then I get the call Lovely needs to go bathroom, she needs to get. I get her out of the pool, and she's walking over to me and she's like just weeping. I'm afraid, I'm afraid I've already pooped in my in my in my swimsuit. I'm afraid there's poop in my swimsuit.
And I'm like, bless your heart. So thank god there was a ruffle kind of hid any disaster we had as we trotted in the bathroom. Very dramatic, but I did. I just told her, I said, you know, honestly happens. Maybe that's maybe a mom came up with that, but I was like, you know what, love this happens. We went to the restroom. I did make her clean it.
Up, okay, how which is a big step because like she's just disgusted with poopment in general, like she's such a capricorn. So we I had her up.
We just kind of cleaned it up. She hasn't pooped since that. She did one time. She does sleep in a pull up overnight still, which I have no problem with that art she said. I I just to do that because Jolie's been potty trained since she was uh two and a half. Yeah, for two she really rocked in So but the night time, like I'm not getting up in the middle of the night to body train, Like I'm just not doing it.
She's everything, You're still, and I just think that if they're dry for a certain amount of time, sure, that's when I always took them away.
That was going to be my strategy when they were saying.
Them until they were dry, and then we just took them.
She got up in the morning.
But I mean there's some people that are in elementary school that are still wearing them at night and they're not dry.
Look, men still shirk their pants. So it does happen until we.
Meet the right woman and they get us to stop doing that.
I do see skid marks quite frequently on underwear, let me tell you. Honestly, though, I feel like it's a childhood trauma, like from seeing like dad skid marks. You know, It's like I always just thought men pooped in their pants.
All right.
Tracy Crossley, you know Tracy Crossley from crossley dot com and her podcast Dealing with It, an Apple podcast.
He's on the phone.
Oh yay, Tracy, Hello, thank you for breaking up our conversation. We were just having super appreciate it. You are a behavioral Oh god, I can't even say that word behavior. Oh my god.
Behavior.
Behavior is that bad that I can't say that word. She'll train you. Behavior.
It's a long word, it's multi syllable, so it's fine.
Your relationship expert and podcast host, you specialize in treating individuals with unhealthy dating and relationship patterns. Where have you been? Where were you in my twenties? This is all I have to say. I see you're about twenty years later for me, Tracy, where are you been?
I got it? I understand.
What's the biggest pattern that you've seen to be the biggest problem.
Uh, well, there's a couple of them. But the biggest one is people are not authentic. And I know that's a really general statement, but with not being authentic come secrets. Becomes a problem with actually being emotionally intimate with another person, because if you're not being yourself, who are you being? And you're not attracting them to you, you're attracting them to someone that you're you have a facade for. So, but that's the biggest one, next to people not staying
in reality. A lot of people get into fantasy, like on the first day, Oh this is fun, this person's perfect or whatever idea they're coming up with, and they start getting ahead and thinking about, oh wow, I want to introduce he or sheet to my parents, and then they're already way to hell out of the first date and into fantasy. So it's always about staying in reality and being yourself like, those are the two biggest things.
What about because I feel like in that moment it is all perfect because it is so new, like staying in that reality where it's like nothing has been tampered or broken or lost or beginning, you know, because the sweet beginning. So isn't that still kind of a reality staying in that moment?
Or am I just really.
You are?
Well, it's great to have a spark, right, But it's when you get carried away with the spark, because then that's how you develop expectations and you're wanting those expectations to remain. And what you're doing is, first of all, you don't really know the person, right. It's what you're picking up from what they're doing, and you're thinking, oh, that hits my checklist. That sounds good, that sounds good,
that sounds good. But the reality of the person and getting to know them and living with them, not literally living with them, but living with them as far as getting to know them and dating them and so on and so forth, you find that, oh, wow, my expectations are really out of whack compared to who this person really is. So you know, at some point you're gonna have to deal with the disappointment of that.
So I know you have that ten week boot camp. It helps people, you know, with the dysfunctional yo yo daters having you know, problems moving on from a past relationship. Why do you think people hang on to relationships that are not serving them?
Well, there's a couple of reasons, but one of the biggest ones is to do with insecure attachment. So a lot of people who I don't know, how much do your listeners know about that?
We talk about our relationships a lot, So can you tell us a little bit more of that about that?
Sure? Sure? So with insecure attachment, basically, as a child, you either securely attached to your parents or you're insecurely attached to your parents, meaning emotionally. So there were experiments that were done in the early seventies by a psychologist named Mary Ainsworth and it was called the Strange experiment, And so it's where a parent would leave a child and they would judge the child's reaction to the parent leaving.
So a lot of us who didn't necessarily emotionally bond with our parents in a way where there's emotional intimacy tend to come at relationships in a completely different way than somebody who was securely attached to a parent. So, as an example, let's say that you had a parent who wasn't around very much, and so you would try to be perfect or try to please them to get their attention, and maybe you still didn't really get their attention because they'd come home and they'd be preoccupied. So
you would be looking for somebody who is preoccupied. And this is not a conscious thought, by the way, this is totally subconscious autopilot. Okay, I'm looking for somebody who's not really going to give me that attention. And then the way I think I get love is by people pleasing or trying to be perfect, which is also why people have trouble being authentic when they first start dating.
I sorry, I just have to say, first of all, there's a lot of head shaking going on in.
This room, a lot of nonverbal amen's happening over yours.
Also, I've never heard it, in all the years of therapy and having experts come on, I've never heard it said quite that way. And I feel like some somehow that just kind of clicked because I know, I know, like you know, all of us have you know, experiences with our upbringing, and I've always been able to relay. Oh that's probably why I do that. But with how you phrased it, can you say that word again, that
in secure attachment? Yeah, that's a yeah. I love how you put that, because that just was like, oh, that's one thousand percent.
What it is was the most groundbreaking moment I've had been non therapy therapy in my entire life.
One thousand percent. I could have used you two marriages ago. Where have you been? Well?
Had?
I had to learn this in between my first and second marriage. So yeah, and a lot of it was my own journey. I mean I trained as a coach, and I went to school and got my degree in psychology. But yeah, none of this really prepared me for why I felt the way I did and the struggles I had in dating, relationships, being a single mom, all that stuff. I mean that was my title. And I really didn't even understand myself, Like I didn't understand why am I
picking these people? Why am I doing this? Why can't I be real? What is so hard about asking somebody a question? Well, if you're afraid they're going to abandon you or think something was wrong with you, then you're not going to ask the questions, right, Yeah.
And you're also yeah, one thousand percent. This is so crazy. I feel like because I was just having so simplified and I was just having this conversation. I was telling Kat about it the other day in the car. I was like, I know that we all know that like my dad and you know those I'm not. I will never blame my dad because I know that he was brought up a certain way which led him to, you know,
be a parent a certain way to me. But you know, I have learned that some ways of his you know, of our of my upbringing was based on how he you know, he handled the divorce and how he left and had the affairs, and so that then made me go off to do you know X, Y and Z. But I so I've always known that my dad's like affected my relations and chips because of the things that happen, but I've never my therapist is trying to tell me the other day where it's just like you've stayed in
certain things because you're or you've tried to be so perfect because you're so afraid of that abandonment. But what you just said makes it even clarifies it even more to me with that insecure attachment.
Mm hmmm. Yeah, until I just skipped for I was going to say, until I discovered it, I really had no clue. And then here's this was a kicker. Okay, So there's different labels under insecure attachment. I happened to fall under anxious avoidant. Okay, so what the hell is that?
Right?
So anxious meaning I would have I would get into these relationships with people like the yo yo ones and where I call it breadcrumbing, right where you hit it off at first, and you think everything's great and they're making promises to you, and then all of a sudden they do kind of like the fade out, and then they show back up, right, but you're thinking, oh my god, they're gone, I've ruined this relationship whatever, And they show
back up and you're back in it. And this can go on for years, right, And so I kept going, what the heck is my problem? But I had such tremendous anxiety during it, and then this is this is where I'm coming in with the avoidant. So then he would kind of change and want to get closer, and I became avoidant. Oh wait a minute, I don't have time to see you, I don't want to talk to you.
I'm going to ignore you. I mean, so I was both sides of the coin, and a lot of people I help are both sides of the coin as well, going between anxiety and avoiding and meeting people who would be healthy and that would give you anxiety like, oh my god, I'm feeling engulfed. Oh God, I get away from me. You know, I don't want anything to do with you.
So yeah, well why is that?
Because I know with relationships, you know, the guys that actually might have been the best for you, you don't want because it's that they're too nice, or I feel too smothered, or you know, they don't have that bad boy, but you know that they'd probably be a great husband and they wouldn't never hurt you.
Why because there's a few there's there's okay, so there's like, there are so many reasons why. So first of all, remember the subconscious wiring here, right, So if you don't have to work hard, like you don't have to be perfect, you don't have to be a people pleaser, you don't know what the heck to do with yourself. So oh I gotta be me, and so you're not you're not performing the drama we are used to having drama because that is drama, and drama doesn't necessarily mean yelling and screaming.
Drama means these heightened emotions, right of am I gonna have my dad hug me today? Or my dad gonna stop watching TV and actually pay attention to me? You know? Is my dad going to critique me? Whatever? So as an adult, we are still caught up in those patterns. And when you meet somebody who's open and available and you don't have to dance around like that, it feels like it's boring for one. I mean, that's when you're coming out of this, right you can feel like, oh,
this is boring, there's no spark. But the spark we're looking for is that intensity that makes us actually feel our feelings. Because what we really don't realize through all of this with the insecure attachment, is that we're really pretty numb to our own feelings. Like we know our reactions, right, we know if we're mad, sad, whatever, but we don't know the deeper feelings because we're cut off from them.
And so when you meet somebody and you have that chemistry and it's all that excitement and they're a bad boy. Then it's that constant drama. It's like watching a movie, right and you're just going along with the plot. But when you meet somebody and it's not that way, it's almost like you really just don't know what to do with yourself. So that's why to me it was really hard, Like I wanted to get in a healthy relationship, and so I really had to go okay, trace you got
to deal with all this intensity. You've got to deal with the fact that you don't know how you feel on a deeper level and what drives you to actually be with people who can't give you what you want. So there's a lot there. I mean, I could go on and on and on for hours probably about just that question if.
You're in the relationship though, you know, for the for the married ones out there that have the pattern of this, it can be such heightened emotions and you're also portraying that they need to be perfect, but they're not perfect. It's like, how do you walk through that season of life to get to a healthier spot.
So you have to make a decision to want to be a good partner to have a healthy relationship regardless of your partner, Okay, because you can't control another person, and a lot of us put well, I'm going to change or I'm going to grow, but we put that on the other person to have to do it with us.
It's a decision that you want to make to have a sense of well being, right, and so what you have to do is, first of all, you've got to look at how much energy physical and emotional energy goes out of my body trying to control or maintain this relationship so that it's at least familiar to me. You know, a lot of times we want change, but at the
same time we want to keep it familiar. So first of all, you've got to realize what are the things that I am doing to stay stuck in this place with this person emotionally, and then you have to stop doing those things. As an example, again, you know I'm using people pleasing and perfectionism, but there's also problem solving. How often in your relationship that doesn't feel great and you're committed to are you looking for problems? Is your focus on all the problems? Why is it on all
the problems? Well, that's a distraction from intimacy. You can't be intimate with someone if you're always focusing on, well, what's wrong, and then something gets solved, and then you're focused on the next problem. So there's all sorts of things. We tend to personalize our mates, We tend to assume a lot about our mates, and it's to step out of that and to really become emotionally present to what is happening when you do what you do. This is hard because most of the time we are on autopilots
ninety five percent of the day. We're just repeating the same patterns, repeating the same things. And so to actually develop some awareness about how you even interact in your relationship and you stop blaming the other person for how they are, you can make a big change right there, just by taking responsibility and going, oh, you know what, I didn't realize that I do that, that I keep finding problems with my mate, right, I mean, how often do we do that?
Yeah?
Often? But what if there are problems though?
You know Kate now and that's it, So that would be different. You know, somebody has big problems in their relationship, Okay, there is total dysfunction. They have to look at why they're staying there. A lot of times we stay out of fear. Sometimes we'll say, oh, it's the money, it's the kids, But really it's a fear. It's a fear of ending up alone. It's a fear because I don't trust myself to make the right decision. What if I
leave and it was the wrong decision. So it's just easier to blame your mate for all their faults and everything wrong with them, and never look at yourself. You still have to take yourself in hand and go what am I doing? I am half of the relationship, so I must be doing something. But it's to take yourself, you know, to take yourself in hand and start making the changes inside of you. You know, what do you resist in the relationship? Meaning what are you fighting against
and struggling against all the time? That never changes?
You think?
Do you think change is a change is possible?
I've seen it. I mean I've been doing this for twelve years and I have seen people chanting their relationships for the better. But it usually takes both of them wanting that. What I often find instead is that when somebody starts working on themselves and they're getting to a better place that there's a distance that even grows more in the relationship. Now that might spurt the other person who's not doing anything about themselves to start doing something.
But in all honesty, you really want someone that's motivated to want to feel better and have their own sense of wellbeing rather than a fear of losing you. Because we're talking about love, and for some reason it seems really romantic when we're making somebody fear losing us. But that's not really romantic. That's about love. So as you start to love yourself more and your mate decides to
cool you, guys might work it out. If you're the only one doing it, it's probably going to be where you work yourself out of the relationship over time.
How do you not put I totally agree with you on that. How do you not put this where? I know it's such a codependent way of thinking, but sometimes in a lot of relationships I've been and even you know, in my relationship with my husband, I'll say, well, you don't make me happy, or this doesn't this doesn't make me happy. So it's like I'm almost is that is
that just codependency? Because of course he can't make me happy, or though his actions might not make me happy, but I still I still am in control of that, aren't I.
Yeah, you are in control of that because if you think about it, Okay, and this is a little off topic, but it's an example. So let's say that you want to throw somebody a surprise party, Okay, and the reason you're doing it, of course, you want to do something nice for your friend, let's say, but if you don't have any joy in the process of putting the surprise party together, then you're missing the boat, especially if your friend has a bad reaction is like I don't like
surprise parties. Why'd you do the surprise party for me?
Right?
So here you are trying to do some thing you think is going to make somebody happy, and they're like, this doesn't make me happy. This really is embarrassing. I'm so embarrassed. So it's the same thing in our relationships where we tend to want to please the other person, Like my husband does things to please me, and even if I'm in a crappy mood, or let's say I'm not happy in the moment, I do appreciate it, but I know he can't make me happy and that's up
to me. And actually, actually in a relationship, it's such a great opportunity to work on yourself because you recognize, oh, my feelings aren't going to change unless I do something about it. So it always comes back to you. And if you have a partner like my partner, I feel he's all about growing himself and I'm about growing myself. So it works really well. I don't blame him for things. I don't put things on him because I know in the end, I'm still going to feel the same way.
I'm still going to feel like I feel whenever that is, you know, like right now, tomorrow, it's still gonna be my feelings.
Right, Okay, I have a question. I'm actually this is actually asking for a friend, not a friend in the room. But I have a girlfriend who is twice divorced and has two little kids, and she stop talking about me while.
This is actually asking for a friend.
So the authenticity we talked that you talked about, like at the very beginning of the relationship, she struggles sometimes with when to like out herself as a twice divorced mother, you know, like obviously she talks about her kids kind of like straight out of the gate. But when it comes to being married twice, I know there's some shame
attached to that for her a little bit. And then when she tries to date, she's like, Okay, at what point do I say, like, you know, to a lot of men that feels like, you know, a girl's crazy so and she's not. She's actually a beautiful human being. She just has seen a lot more in men then
they even solve themselves kind of. But I'm wondering what your advice would be for her when she's dating, and when is maybe an appropriate time to say that, or maybe it's not their business, or what is your I really love you already and you've really cracked a lot of things for me.
So okay, So of course this is going to sound crazy. But first of all, she has to own the fact that she's been married twice. You got to own it. You got to say, you know what this is, this is what's happened, and I got to own it. And I've got to feel okay about it first. So if you feel okay about something first, you don't really care when you tell somebody. I would tell somebody right up front, why because I don't want to go down the path of Okay, well, maybe he'll like me enough and then
I can tell him at that point. But you're not the Booby prize. You're still a prize. But if you don't feel like you're the prize and that somebody is taking you on, like, oh, you've been married twice, Okay, fine, I'll take you. You know you'reamage goods or whatever it is that you've attached to the whole idea of being married twice. But it's really about saying, screw it, I've been married twice. Oh well, you know, s happens. Things happen in life, and here I am. I own it.
I take responsibility for what's happened in my life. And when you come across like your own heroine, then it's really about the guy who's going to have the confidence. And that's what you want anyway, Like you don't want to bamboozle somebody into being with you because they're deciding, oh, okay, you've been married twice. I'll take you because of that,
and you're the Booby Prize. No, you want someone who thinks that you're awesome no matter what, and the right guy and not that there's just one right guy, by the way, but the right guy or a guy that's confident enough you're going to have a great relationship with. You're going to have a relationship with someone who's actually a partner rather than somebody who feels like they got the leftovers, you know, like the day old bread or something.
Yeah.
I like that's she's like a fiercely independent I mean, she obviously is in't therapy. She's so strong and so good. There's been a couple of times where she's kind of immediately said those things, and I think she felt the relief of the ownership of it, you know, just being like this is it? Because she is so amazing, Like I'd marry her. You know, she's a good she's a really really great check.
She's a catch.
So I just know she would appreciate that insight a lot. What is you not to get I have too personal in your life? But what is your biggest struggle with your husband? Now?
Not to get too personal? Take us into your bedroom.
I know, Oh my god.
I mean, well, if you listen to my podcast, you would know that there's nothing really that I don't hold back from. I would say, as far as my husband goes, I don't know. I think my biggest struggle with myself when it comes to my husband is more about my own avoidancy. Right, So, like I said, it was an anxious avoidant. And so there's times we're all fine. Like
I also can be kind of a alcoholic. Let's say where I start putting up walls and I'll realize it and I'll go, okay, Trace, this is how you used to do relationships, right, You just get all on your head and thinking about work or thinking about something and be totally focused and checked out to my surroundings and the fact that I have a relationship. And so what I do now is I'll catch myself and it'll feel hard because it should feel hard, and I'll be vulnerable,
and I will tell him. I always tell on myself, you know what, this is what I'm doing. Or I'll just go over and I'll hug him or crawl on top of him or whatever, you know. I mean, I will get closer to him rather than farther apart from him, and that's great. And the I guess, you know, the other struggle would be we both can be kind of introverted,
Like we're both like introvert extroverts. Right, so we can both get caught up in our things and he'll be quiet about stuff because he's not used to having somebody who wants to hear about him, and I always want to hear about him. So I would say for him, it's opening up more, even though he's not really trying to hide it. It's just like these old patterns that we've had from past relationships, I think are the things that sometimes get in the way. But we really do
have good communications, so that helps. And if we trigger each other right where I'll say something and he gets upset, we're pretty good about being in reality and going whoa, wait a minute, Okay, that's my stuff and need to I need to work on that. I need to figure out why I'm triggered or why I want to strangle
you right now. I got to figure that out because it really doesn't have anything to do with the moment, because I can tell because I'm like totally reacting when it's not even something that would have actually been anything to react to in the first place. So stuff like that, I mean, so.
Like reships aren't perfect, then my insecure attachments, little child is saying, wait, so then really, not all relationships are perfect. What d for entertainment?
Right, I know, not perfect, but you know what, here's the thing. They can be safe. So most who have insecure attachment, right, we're looking for safety. We're looking for security, and a lot of times we think it's it's somebody.
You know.
Again, we're doing all those things that we're used to doing and they're reacting to it. That that makes us feel safe, That that's temporary. Like there's a real feeling of safety when you've done the inner work and then you have somebody who's consistent, who's stable, or your relationship excuse me, your relationship keeps progressing. You know, there's growth, there's communication, you have those things working and it just
makes such a difference. And the thing with the inner child, you know, that little kid, is that you start to love her in a different way. Like I look at it as though there are always things that I can be aware of, and one of them is when I disconnect from my own feelings. When you do that, you
disconnect from your inner child. When you are connected and you're really relaxed in that and you're feeling all of your feelings, you start to realize that whether it's you as a little kid or you as an adult, you actually feel really good. And that means in almost any situation, and that sort of answers that need that the inner child has because attachment, no, well, it can get better,
it can be resolved. It really can. Like I read that book Attached, I don't know how many years ago it was, and I and that's like the seminal book about attachment. And right now I have a literary agent who's shopping my book on attachment. So anyways, this book says that people like me who are anxious avoidant, that there's no way we're ever going to feel better. The only way we'll feel better is if we find a partner who make us feel better. And it kind of
pissed me off when I read that. I thought, you know what, that's bs because I want to feel good whether I'm in a relationship or not. So you know, the insecure attachment can absolutely go away. It can absolutely be taken care of. It's conditioning. It's not who you really are.
That's good.
Do you do private sessions?
We got three people up for you.
Do you do?
What do you do for the next three hours?
I will get.
Yeah, okay, amazing. So you your podcast is deal with It on Apple Podcasts. Everyone listened to her because she's incredible and apparently you can do private sessions and I will be going on her website. We will put it on the bio. Thank you so much, Tracy for just enlightening this entire room and giving us some some awesome knowledge. We really appreciate it.
Thank you, Thank you for having me.
I love talking about this.
So I'll talk to you on behalf of me and my husband.
Fine, Oh you are welcome, all right, you guys, bye bye bye.
So we're all best friends with Tracy. I mean, she's great. I just want to know more about that. She's secure attach it so well. Something about the way she said it was so I mean, that was just it blew everything out of the water. We were all like it was so clear to me. Yeah. And it's funny because I, like Amy and I were just talking about this. Yeah,
well I was telling Catherine about it. But how she just said it just made that even simpler, Like she explained it even it made so much sense to me.
Here's the thing, though, I hear that can I say this real fast? It gives me so much anxiety? Why because it just makes me think about my kids. Oh yeah, that's all I can think about when I because I know what affects me.
But what I hear in that is secure attachment and make a healthy adult. Right But how do you know?
So they just have to know that they're safe with us and that we love them, and we talk about things and we sort through things.
It doesn't have to be perfect. So like abandonment, like even if you parents aren't together, like my dad could have love you, dad, but like there could have been a different way to not make me feel abandoned, which then has my So my my insecure attachment is all about I need to feel safe in a relationship. And what doesn't I either flee or I cling tighter. Right,
So that's you know. But so then I okay, now that we have this knowledge, which I don't think our parents really had because my parents have worn to therapy.
Yeah, I mean I had my issues with my mom too, and I don't now as an adult, I don't think it was purposeful. I don't sure she you know, but that's what scares me.
Like now we're aware of that, but I don't, but I don't think are then we're that in touch with how this would affect us or or you know again, like none of them I knew, no knew, no one that went to therapy.
Right, that's true.
And I do think we're all so tuned into like our kids and our fa I mean, I know the way you guys mother and it's like we all three have different styles of mothering, but at the core of it is always wanting our little ones to feel heard and loved and safe.
And I think that neat or that like, well, I think what's scary to me is like.
We're in a business where it's constant and so you're constantly working, whereas like my mom worked all the time, she was out of the house, you know, right, and when she came she was home, but she wasn't present. She wasn't present when she was home. But it's like finding that balance and how to make sure you're present but still getting you know, but still working and still you know, it's just all the all the things.
No, that's tough, and then like you said, we will mess them up somehow, because it can be. I tell Jolie probably too. I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, like every two frickin seconds so if I keep because I'm wanting that love, that's my own issues, but I portraying that on her to get that love, so she's probably gonna have Maybe maybe I'm screwing her up that way. I definitely love is
definitely going to therapy for opposite reasons I did. So their application of my feelings on this poor thirty pounder is like, I can't keep my mother happy.
She's like, why you need more validation? Okay, Oh love her so much too much not to put the negative part of it. No, but I mean that's a real the reality, and I think that's it. But again we're conscious of that. Yes, more, we're more like Christen, like you said, we're more in tune to ways to be careful of maybe not.
Screwing them up to a tea, which I think is half the work.
Sure, just want to we can cheat on our private like what we need to do.
Yeah, like in the next thirty minutes when we get back on when they start knowing her for our private session.
Okay, let's read an email before we say goodbye. I can't mom, January.
It's not happy from Alicia.
Help. I'm desperate. My husband and I have had a lot of trust issues lately, and we've been trying to work through them. A couple months ago, I found cocaine in his wallet. He said it was a friends, and I chose to believe him until I found some again later. He said he was holding it for his friend, who was hiding it from his wife. He said the friend has done it around him, but he hasn't done it himself. He knows I would not be okay, as we have
three children. Well now he's gotten smarter about where he hides it, and I found four bags of it in his car. He may be selling it, but I also think he's doing it since addition to the bags of coke, I found a folded picture frame and inside, Oh damn, inside was a rolled up bill with coke clearly on it and a credit card. I haven't confronted him because I know he'll lie again. I'm confused and I love him, but I worry if I can afford to keep our home since we filed bankruptcy a few months ago.
Dang h.
So I'm sorry you're going through this. It's probably safe to say from this email he's obviously not holding it for a friend. It is his either way. Yeah, and he might maybe he's selling it. I don't know, but it's it's his cocaine. Whether he's I don't think he's just holding it for a friend. That's like, hey, dude, like my wife doesn't want this in the house, Like there's so in high school anymore. So holding it for a friend doesn't work. That's like what you say when
you're sixteen to get busted. So I need him to get a little bit. Yeah, a little ownership either way would be I the bankruptc I mean, because another side is like, you know, is he maybe selling it because they're going through some financial problems right now. Doesn't make it okay at all, does not make it okay, especially with them having three kids. But she needs to know. Yeah, obviously though in my opinion, I one thousand percent that
it is his. That's what I think. I think if he says comes up with a lie, that's just that's for example, let me just I was dating someone because I just I have friends that have done cocaine. I've never touched cocaine. I've never touched a drug in my life, haven't done it. But I remember I was dating a guy and he would you know, He's like, I don't
do cocaine. I was like, okay. I was like, well at that time, I was like, if you do, well, you just tell me because I just for some I just I just don't know, Like and I you know what I'm kind of walking into. And he's like, yeah, absolutely, He's like, but I don't do it. I'm like, okay. So I remember I walked down the steps and I hear him snorting in the bathroom and I walk in and I'm and I clearly saw him snore a line
of cocaine and I go, what are you doing? And he goes, I'm using Afron and I'm like, I just saw you snort cocaine off the countertop, Like what do you mean? And then but then he made me believe that it was the Afron and that that's like you said, it was the addict. And finally I was just like, I can't be in this relationship, Like I even asked
you to be honest with me about it. Yeah. So, and to me, this feels like this this might be an addiction because of the and I brought that example up to say that this might be an addiction because of the constant lying, lying, yeah. The lying, Yeah, the lying behavior and the not coming forward and continually finding it. So I applaud you for not going to him yet, but I think that you need to have a plan in place for your kids, and a plan in place to ask for help. If there's a family member you
can go to take the kids away. Like, I would not confront him around the kids, right, we all agree once to that, not confronting around the kids.
He needs help, he needs to go to therapy. But then it's earth, Well it's money.
How expensive is rehab It's so expensive, so expensive. Well, what he needs to do first is be honest. Yeah. Well, and that's that's where I think he should take the kids out. Kids have to be away. I grew up. Put them out of this. Yeah addiction, dat addiction. Take the kids out of the house. Yeah.
It seeps into them and they take on more than they need to. So I love the fact that she's like, I have three kids, and that she's like kind of shielding them already from that.
Now I don't, And and then I would ask him to go get help because clearly, whether it's in a drug addiction or whatever, like he needs some therapy, some help and y'all need like a good separation because I'm not saying divorce him, But if he's not willing to continue to get help and do better, then I don't see then in my opinion, that's but I do think he deserves the opportunity to try to change. Sure, I do too, because I do believe I believe in change.
I do too.
But if he keeps messing up, then yeah, I just as Yeah, we need to be some ownership there for sure, take the kids out, do some therapy, good separation, yeah, really ask for some and we just need to even she doesn't even really know what she's dealing with.
Yeah, it's it's hard the bankrupt thing. Man, that doesn't I hate to say that, but when there's not a lot of money there, it's hard to not a lot of money. But I mean it's expensive. But there are some programs I think that you can get in that I think that are like, you know, state funded or something. There's got to be something out there where he can go and get help that's not going to cost a lot of money.
Every time I've taken a faithful step into some dark place, I always feel like I've watched God provide for me,
so hm, I agreed. I know that may seem like a very impossible thing to wrap your mind around, but it's like, if you're taking a good step to protect your children who are also God's children, and maybe make another broken child healthy who happens to be your husband, then I feel like at some point someone will present themselves for a way to wiggle out of this, or at least start the shift.
I love that.
Amenh three to one more from Misty expecting. My husband and I are expecting our first child together in July. As soon as we both found out, our reaction was stress and panic. We need to get into a house, but we have no money for one. Is it normal to not be that happy or not happy at all that I'm actually pregnant. Our entire family is stoked, but we aren't. Any advice would be tremendously appreciated.
You do not have to live in a house to have a baby, No, you don't. We lived in a condo, Dave Ramsey says it. They actually take up the least amount of space and all the stuff we put with them is kind of like not real life, you know, I just would I mean, we lived in a thousand square feet and there was three of us and two dogs. So I don't think you have to have a house. There's something that we all think at first, we all kind of panic.
I think I don't. I think there should be no panic is normal? Yeah, because you're about to take one. It's a lot of responsibility.
Absolutely, yeah.
I don't think, especially if you weren't prepared for it. Even if you are prepared for, you bad planning for Yeah.
Yeah absolutely yeah.
And then not does she say not wanting it or no, No, just that I think there was a lot of projected like qualifications that she doesn't.
Have that unhappy, not happy. I think she should not be putting so much because I think it's like you have to be happy, you should be happy. It's like, well that's what people say, but you might not be in that moment. Like I remember after I Jace, I was like, was I happier with Jolie when I was pregnant?
You know?
When I got right, It's like because you're you're trying to compare and you're seeing what other people are doing, It's like, just take your experience and just give yourself some grace.
Yeah, it's too much pressure. Just feel the way that you feel. Wait till the baby gets here. Yeah, you were going you know you're going to feel differently once the baby gets here.
Remember that people did this like in covered wagons. That was my go to mantra for myself. Like, it doesn't have to be a million gadgets a big house.
It could.
They really just like pajamas and their mama for a really long time. Anyways, it's a lot of pressure taking off me when I could simplify it, simplify.
That in my brain. All right, guys, I don't I want to come to I get another email. I have separation anxiety. We'll do this again, I promise.
I need you to.
Pinky swear's bring it up.
We'll do it.
Everyone love this. So we're gonna at least do at least once a month. I will stick to that. We will try our best to at Lisa once a month. Mommy sign off, Mommy play how I Live Without you?
Now?
Okay, bye, guys, that was fun, Love you, thanks for having me and mom January signing off