Dance Moms!

next Tuesday or tomorrow, you're back. I think I have a cold. I mean, it's just hard though, because you don't know if it's I mean, I don't think you have the rhona, because you'd have other symptoms. Correct, you don't have a fever, you don't have I mean, you have a cough, but it's not like a dry cough. I feel like exactly like I do when I have any other cold. And I'm chasing him with the thermometer gun the lasts. But I'm still here. I'm alive, and

you've been kicking. But this morning with the kids and working and let me sleep into like nine. It was awesome. You're welcome, So I appreciate that. Of course, you know, mom's gotta do what we gotta do. You know that you do. Um, But while you were down and out, while you were laying in bed, Uh, you check my phone for a little while because I got to catch up on Well, you don't have social media, right, so I see what's going on in the world besides the news,

so fill us in. So I saw this thing that was, um, kind of some beef between Megan Fox and her I guess ex green And it's interesting because, basically, I'll sum it up for you. Around Halloween, he posted a picture of him and one of their kids on socials. But they had had the agreement that they weren't going to post their children on social media, and they have three kids together, so they made that mutual agreement. And now that they're separated or not together, he apparently is quote

unquote flaunting it around. And even some of Brian's other exes came to Megan's defense, like Marcel wasn't that's his ex wife Vanessa? Yes, her? And then Courtney basically that, um,

he's done this in the past. Where he tries to flaunt that he's this awesome dad, not saying that he's not, but he tries to put this persona on that Megan's an absent mother because she didn't post anything and he's just like super perfect dad, always engaging with the kids because he posted on socials, but the agreement was to not post correct so she basically so Megan was like, yeah, we agreed on this, and you feel the need to just flaunt our children around to make yourself feel better, right,

and especially now you pulled it up for me the photo that he posted. She said, it's not hard to crop them out, and that's true, like he could have easily, like there's enough space to crop out. I think. So I have another celebrity couple just got divorced. I can't say the name. I don't want to. But she had told me their thing was and she would be fine to show the face of the kids, but he was

really against it. So ever since they've been together and had kids, she covers them up with like a face or like a you know, like a strawberry or whatever, and so you know, and that's in in or now to worse, and she still does it. Because that's the agreement.

That's what and that's where I feel like I'm on, Like, I guess team Megan, because when you make that kind of agreement, especially when it's around your kids, whether you're together or divorced, that should be something if don't do it unless you have a prior conversation like hey, I really want to post this really cute picture like doom or just something. You know, um, but if the agreements in place, I mean, just like my friend could easily be like, well, we're divorced now I can do whatever

I want. Like, no, the agreement is like there's a reason why Megan and this other guy you know on my friend's side doesn't want their kids faces being seen. Some people just don't look like that for sure, which is it's their decision. I think it's important whatever the decision is, as long as people are in agreement, that should be respected. I think it's just hard though, when because I'm sure, I mean, I don't know outsider here. You know, when you go through a divorce, it's really hard,

you know. I think about like the Army Hammer situation where you know his you still has the kids in the I don't know where it's at I don't know if you saw that story or not, um, but basically there, I guess they're kind of having like a little ugly match about you know, he wants to see the kids and the kids are down in some island. I can't remember what it is, um, But I just I can't

imagine those feelings when you're divorced. I mean especially, I mean, shoot, we talked about in the book, like I'm you know, when we were separated, I'm like, I don't want to see Jolie until it's on my time, and that's not healthy for the kids. But you're just so angry that it like it makes sense that you might not be acting in the best frame of mind and you forget that you need to put your kids first, like you might forget that, like you're you feel like you're putting

your kids first. But but it's also you're so angry at your partner too. Yeah, And what's no matter who you are, what's the easiest way to take a jab of your partner is the kids using the kids, which is so messed up. But I mean, shoot, I did it. I mean I was like, no, you can't see Jolly until I'm done with dancing with the stars. You know

what's coming up for me right now? Which is interesting, like because we're very open and I was, I don't I wasn't completely comfortable at the beginning, but I became comfortable with it. I'm like scared um with like sharing the kids so much, but then I was like, you know what, I was on board with it, and we never really uh, I never discussed my reserve reservations around it. But I'm all for it and that's our decision as

a couple. But I'm just playing out of scenario that God forbid we got divorced, right And of course you think about that, of course you, But I know, I'm just like, what's coming up. I'm like me if that was a situation, because I'm not on social media and I wouldn't anticip getting on social media even if we did. Oh, I so disagree. You would go on Instagram the day? How much you want about right now? Let's let's there's just you would I know which photo you would use?

I know, yeah, the photo that you literally won't look at because you think I'm too handsome in it. It's just sits and it makes you upset. Literally you can't look at it because you're like, you're too handsome in this picture. But I know exactly the photo you would use, and you would be on there just to spite me. Here's here because you can get spiteful, so can I.

But because you're so much more interactive on there. A big part of why I wouldn't, it's because I would try to separate myself from your life in regards to everything else you have going on besides the kids. So seeing my kids on there as much as you know we post about them now, that would crush me, Like I don't actually if it's like with another man, not to like throw like, yeah, that would be a big thing.

But I mean, hey, it's like you can't all. But then that's where I would then fight with you to be like, it's one thing to have the agreement in the very beginning, but you can't just be like, well, now we're divorced and no, I agree, I agree with you, know, like you can't share the kids. No, I agree with you. That's I'm not saying it's it's I'm in the right to like demand that, but it's just what's coming up

for me. I'm like, man, I would have a really hard time because I don't have social because I'm not I wouldn't be posting things with the kids like and so I make up that it would be because you, I feel like you're missing that time, and so it's not even it's not even about you. It's about the kids and having the ability to see the time I'm physically missing with crush me m. So I don't know, it's just an it's just an interesting thought that came into my head. And feeling that was like I wouldn't

like that. Yeah, I mean, shoot, I would hate it. I mean I would do everything in my power to I mean, I don't know. I think in the beginning, like I always dream about, like I said, we've talked

about before, is having that really healthy relationship. But I think unfortunately where you know, the army Hammers and the you know, um Brian and Megan, it's just there's so much bitterness and hostility that, like you said, unfortunately the kids get thrown into it and that and that's really unfortunate. But hopefully, you know, I know a lot of parents that have been able to do a co parenting therapy

after divorce, and it's really helpful. For them because they can talk about all these things like, hey, can you just for the first few months, can you not show as much? Or can we stick to this agreement? And I think having that like discussion could be really helpful for people, you know, that are going through this. But let's take a break and let's we're gonna talk a little bit more about kids. Oh yeah, Dance Moms coming up. All right, So we're both very excited. And I'm a

fan by association. You got me into this show because you watched it NonStop, so literally I had no choice. And then once I started investing time, I was all in. And to legendary moms, believe you didn't run out of the room. He had some things to say, but he's still stay. A couple of times I think I did, Melissa,

but then I was just all in. Um, but we have the wonderful Melissa Gasni and Holly Hatcher Fraser with us Dance mom My Dance Moms, So oh my gosh, of course, so I um, I was able to meet the cast of Dance Moms, and of course I was so excited to meet the girls because they were just precious and you know, they're so sweet but I was so excited to meet the moms, and you too are just like so sweet, so kind, and I just I

don't know. I mean, I watched that show from from the very beginning because my best friend Katherine was a huge fan, and and I just I love I mean, I love the drama. I loved the dancing, um the Abbey side of things. I was I was so torn at times. And then you know, Michael would come in because he's got the football background and he's like, it's like a football coach. Hey, sometimes you need tough love, I know, But would you want your daughter to have

that tough Not a chance, not a chance. But I mean, I will ask I'll ask this first question, Holly Melissa, do you think aspects of that and you don't have to personalize it towards towards Abbey, but just aspects of that environment have helped your daughters and your children, you know, flourish in their young adult life. I will say this. I am a mom of two boys and a girl. My oldest son is a scene year in college, and he played football all throughout high school and he went

to Division one to play football. So I am a mom who I'm a dance mom, but I'm also a football mom too, and I would say there are things that I would see from me a dance experience that I had never seen on a football field. And I mean they were repealed state champions. I'm like, they're tough football players something they played well for the state of Pennsylvania. So, and they're all boys Catholic high school football Southwest Pennsylvania.

You have thousands of people coming out on Friday nights. We re live football dealer Nation here, even on a high school level. So I'm used big time, big times. So and I also as a mom, I believe in tough love. I'm an educator. I believe in having high standards for students and for kids, and they rise to

that level. I think the difference is, I don't want to do anything that would be demeaning, and as long as that grow, it is coming from out of love and you're holding high standards and encouragement and you're not doing something that's so negative that it kills the spirit or is truly cruel. That's the difference. I think that those are things. But one of the greatest things that came from the show for me, for for Nia watching her grow up, she learned how to deal with difficult people.

And you will work with a lot of difficult people in life, so she had to learn that at an early age. So for me, she knows how to deal with some really tough people and whether it's a work environment, whether it's a friend's experience. So that's been invaluable me, Lissa, what about you? Well for my kids, UM, I mean I appreciate the opportunity to get that they had absolutely. Um.

It crushed mackenzie spirit for years. UM. And I'm so glad that she has such a great sister and great sisters because these girls are they love each other so much. And what's great is like Nia, Maddie Mackenzie are so close. I actually went to Nia's house just me the other night. We ordered I watched the election and we just literally hung out and we wore matching outfits. By the way. Um. Crazy, But my Mackenzie, definitely, her spirit was Um. She hated dance,

hated it. Um, she had no self esteem. Um. Her sister really helped her through that, and UM, tough love is one thing, but that's not love in my opinion. But even Maddie, like Maddie was the favorite. Yeah, that's what I was kind of curious on when you talked about Mackenzie, you know, because Maddie was the quote unquote favorite. She was Abby's you know, starn you know, and put

so much of her energy into her. Do you think that had that played then a roll to in Mackenzie's you know, not wanting to to dance because she's like, I can never be as good as my sister, even though she was great in her own right now, I don't think she really cared honestly. She she didn't even care about dance. Honestly. She'd be like, yeah, honestly, she could care less. She would just do her solo and really didn't care honestly, which was a good thing. And

she's still kind of like that. She's so different, they're total opposite, but they balanced each other so well. Um. You know, Mackenzie just had her spirit crushed and now she has so much confidence. It took her years. Um, but she's great. You know, she's a tough, tough kid. She sticks up for her friends too. Oh my gosh, it's crazy. So as so proud of her. I love

that because she's so sweet and they're both. I mean, both of your girls are just you know, are amazing, Like I love Nia, I love Maddie, I love Mackenzie. Like they're they're also kind and what they put out in the universe and on their Instagram, I'm in socials and they're just there. You can tell that you know they were raised right. And I feel like as a mom my, my biggest fear is my is Jolie, because I don't know how to like sometimes I'll say this, the one fear that I have is that I'm always

going to be like, don't do this? Why are you doing this? And I'm like almost like nitpicking at her sometimes and I can sense myself being like and she's only you know, she's gonna be five. But I can still sense where I'm like, you know, do this right or do and and so I worry about that, And then I also weary on the other side how to be a better mom in the area of when she does get disappointed, Like I'm so scared, like how to you know, help her? Do I help her cry through it?

Do I do? I just let her grieve any loss that she deals with the friendship or or a bully at school or I mean, like I just I'm so, I don't know. I'm not havening't been there yet as a mother, so I would love some insight from me on how to deal with kind of both of those areas in the arena. I wish I could go back a little bit, because I remember the girls being really young and coming home and making sure they did their homework perfect, and like Maddie, if she had an erase

mark on her page, she would start all over. And I feel like that was maybe me. I don't know, because Kenzie was never like that, but um, I wish I didn't care so much about little things when the girls were little, because who cares if their project was perfect? Like Mackenzie would have a project in school and Maddie would say, oh, no, I'm doing it for you, it has to be perfect, and I'm like, oh my goodness.

You know. I wish I can go back and just let them be more kids and not worry about the small stuff about my kitchen being cleaned or the laundry being done. I wish I would have never cared about that stuff. That's my biggest regret, as you know, a young you when the girls were younger yea, and Melissa's right. When you're a mom at any stage, there is no

rule book for being a mom. So I have found that as my kids are getting older and my oldest will be twenty two this month, is that the needs and my role as a mother will change and things which I thought when he was five, which were stuck to the biggest issues I'll ever have to face as a mother have changed as he gets older and he

still needs me, but that it's just different. And one of the things that I learned as a as a parent and even as an educator to when parents would come to me because they get word you don't ever want to see a child they'll fault, get hurt like that is like the best crushing firm letter, who never want to see your child or any parents get see your child hurt. But part of the issues that you can't protect your children from those emotions and those experiences.

They have to live them, they have to grow through them. So they learned how to do that on their own, because that's how they become young adults and people and have to learn how to manage those expectations and experiences. So you can't live their lives for them. And I'm a big believer in the blessing of a skink me. I don't want them to come up a broken bone, but you know a skin me, you'll love of a skinny.

So there are things that will happen in life, and you're just like, all right, what you learned from that experience, how can we make sure that doesn't happen again. It hurts, but you will survive. And so there's a great book called Blessing of a Skinney by Wendy mogul I was highly recommended. But just that philosophy of life, I just that's my mantra. I love that. And I think that the kids need you more later in life than they

do in the beginning. I mean, they need you absolutely, you need to do everything for them, but I think that you just don't have to sweat the small stuff and they're younger, because when they're older, I feel that they need you so much more. Through breakups and you know, first loves is oh it's weight, Oh my gosh, damn. Like I'm just I'm already like, oh, I remember my first breakup? Yeah I didn't. I just I don't want her to I don't want her heart to hurt, like

I might go kill the kid. You know, I might show up at his door with the you know, Holly, and I can help you through that one because to her and I've helped each other through it, Yes, for both our kids, and it was not harnessed. Oh my gosh. I cried like my heart was broken, Like I'm gonna be like give me your phone and I'm gonna just being a war with like the kids. I'll tell you what, Julian Jason's significant others, they don't have to worry about

being scared to me. Once they get to know, they're going to be terrified. Like have you seen Jolie's mom, She is terrified. I'm gonna be Gemma on Sons of Anarchy. Well, it's funny. I had a sign on my door. M went because we I'm the kid house. Everybody comes to my house, and it said no drugs, no vapes, no sex, no alcohol, just fun. And it was like on my door and I wrote it to Marker and the kids are scared of me, which is good. I'm happy with that.

Let me ask both of you this because this is a point of not contention between Jenna and I but we have a little bit different of a philosophy. Right, So both of you have these you know, wonderful children and also these daughters that have been in the limelight for some years now and are blossoming continuing to blossom in you know, areas with attention and limelight and notoriety.

How do you what's like your perspective on traditional education and also allowing your kids to follow their dreams because I'm I come from a conservative family, Like you know, they had the same job for thirty years. You go to college, you get your degree, you put you know, blue collar, and Janna left home at eighteen and went and chased your dreams. Now I chase my dreams too, but football you can do all those things while you

chase it. Like, how do you like, We're just I don't know how we're gonna do it because jann is just you know, she's like, well, if they don't want to go to college, they don't have to go to college. And I'm like, no, they at least need to go to college and set themselves up. And so how do you guys deal with that? With the with these you know, amazing kids and kind of the path that they're on. It's an interesting thing for me, and it's I'm biased

because I'm an educator. My doctorate is from PEN. I have a doctor in educational leadership. I was a principal, So I very biased on this subject. That being said, I surprised myself in many ways as especially with me and my boys are all traditional UM there. They went to UM. They were private educated. They Catholic school high school for them, all boys, which has been great, wonderful experience. Never UM a question what they were going on a college.

But my husband also he has his master's treat We believe in education. Education is highly highly important in our family. That being said, it also is important in our family that they don't think that they need a degree to be educated. My wort for me, having a purposeful and meaningful life means more to me than anything else. Being a positive member of a community. It is more important than having a piece of paper and being a jerk.

So I want you to be educated about light and how you can make the world a better place and how do you contribute and be a good citizen in the world. So for Nia who was in middle school and when the school, when the show moved to l A. We were faced with a problem. She couldn't stay in regular school. She was up and she was reading with school up to that point. And I was debating how I was going to handle this, and my my brother was like, Holly, who's a principle as well? Like your principal,

you have overseen the curriculm hundreds of kids. Truly, you can educate one. And I never thought of it that way before. Yes, a good point. I can do that. I didn't teach Nia, but I could make sure that she understood the value of education. So when it came time today, senior year in high school, and she just said she wasn't sure if she was gonna go to college, I was able to support that, and I was like, that's fine. I value that. That's her decision. It's college

is not for everyone. It doesn't make her any lesson from person, and if she decides to go there later on, so be it. I don't. She has to live her life her way, and so we gave her that up. But you need to figure out. She was going to a gap year, and she applied to all the University of California schools. She got in to u C L a and surprised us all and she decided to go right who's there now? So you just kind of have

to left your kids figure it out. And I think if you get them, if you if you're too intense, they kind of shut down and they have a passionate and a dream. I totally hear that, Holly. I think like when you were saying that, I'm like, you know, she's going to be the one that decides it, and we have to just be supporting her in whichever way. We can always encourage her, but I think let her let her shine in whatever area and then she'll know, you know, absolutely. With my kids, I am you know.

They've been homeschooled since third and fourth grade. And my husband retired early. Um. He retired when Kenzie was twelve. He promised, he said, when you're twelve, I'll be retired. So he was their school and he gets the curriculum from the actual high school. And does you know actual school, it's not online. Um. Maddie graduated last year. She is eighteen. UM, Kenzie's sixteen, and she's going to be graduating a whole year early, which is fabulous. Um. And then she's going

to take online classes. Um, Maddie is not at this time because she's really pursuing her movie career. In her career, and she said, maybe I'll go, maybe I won't, but I'm going to let her decide whatever she wants to do as well. Um, I did not go to college. I grew up in a Catholic house that was very conservative, and you know, I always wanted to be a mother, That's what I wanted to do. I regret not going to college sometimes just because I can say I went

to college. And then I have my friend Holly there who makes me feel smart all the time, and I like, I go to her for advice all the time and help and and she's like, you could do this. You know it's in there, you know. I mean, she's very encouraging. And you have to be around people that want to encourage you. And that's what we teach our kids. You need to be with people that are going to lift

you up and encourage you. I love that. Okay, I want to talk about the podcast, but first I just want to say I want to ask what is the biggest conflict in your marriages around the kids, and how have you been able to handle it? Oh my gosh, I'm trying to think the biggest one. I think my husband thinks I I coddled the too much in the sense that I want to give them everything they want. I mean it's like every month. But he's like, he's like,

they want a dog that's coming to you. I'm like, that was made, that wasn't making, but I want a dog to you anyway. Okay, here here's a dog. Well, in my marriage, my my husband is not their dad, but he is basically their dad because he's raised them since they've been little. Um, and he is Natsberg. I'm in California. He left in June. We haven't seen him since June because of Corona. He doesn't want to be here. Um, but he's always supportive. He does zoo with Mackenzie for school.

UM and I have to tell you he supports the girls a hundred percent. And you know it's the animal thing as well. You know we got funnies, we got a dog during Corona. And he's like, I'm not taking care of these animals, but it's probably about animals. That's great. What do you think what do you think ours is

right now? With the kids. Huh. I mean we're pretty on the same page with I feel like we had one last week though with what you feel that sometimes you can like I take you for granted with the schedule and the kids and just assuming like you're here you can watch the kids. That would be the biggest thing. It's like, if I don't have something on the calendar, like scheduled, then I feel like the default is I have something scheduled, Mike doesn't, he's available to watch kids,

when really I had that time to something else. In my mind, I was gonna do, you know, and so that yeah, I mean that might be the biggest thing, but that's just communication. I like live and die by the calendar. Like I feel like I'm like, hey, I have to go to the bath Usually I have to go to the bathroom at three, So hey, Mike's going to the bathroom at three, just so you know, honey. I mean, hey, it's helpful calendar too. It's real helpful

to know. Um. Okay, so your podcast because Mom said so, Um, you guys launched it October eight. Um, you've got some amazing guests that have already been on. But um, tell us tell our listeners what because Mom said so? Podcast is all about even though I kind of know, well, it's just basically you know about mom's mom issues and it's not it's we're not doing anything like deep and dark, but we want to give advice. We want it to be fun. Um. We have fan questions, which is my

favorite thing. Um, And it's just being together as moms who kind of our kids grew up together, so it's just our experiences together. Yeah exactly. It's like people know us from the dance world, but for us, it's like we talk about everything. We talk about life, womanhood, so to your lifestyles and everything in between. So that leaves a lot of conversations to be had, Like we can find just about anything to have a top topic for the week, and it's fun we have, like Melissa says,

we love the fan questions. If you'd love to hear like what fans are, what they want to know from us, Like, oh, you want to know our opinion. Great, we can always

give an opinion story. Um. And then also something that I think Alisson who came up with this idea of the mom brag and the mom fail, and it's fun that we get to share that every week with each other because sometimes there are stories that we haven't heard from each other about, like okay, once your mom feel for the week, and then it's a good chuckle or

the brag where kind of support each other. It's it's it's fun the podcast feeling and you have and you have Kelly and Jill from Dance Moms as well on there, right, so you got for you just plenty of content there to talk about. The podcast flies by and it's all nice. Oh my gosh. We do it for like four hours and we're like, wait, the first time that we got together, um, last year we were gaining hours. We just eight for

ten hours and talking to show. It's fun to be with Kelly and Jail because you know, we had not been together, all four of us for years. And then like, well, can you just pick up where you left off? Yes,

yes we can. And the energy is good and we laugh and there's so many things and we just have different perspectives of our worlds and our situations and topics that we've covered, and so we're really different as far as like our personalities and that what binds this is this this the show Dance Moms, but we don't really

talk about that. We talked about so much more about what does it mean to be a woman, and we find out that a lot of things were wrestling when they were all kind of like at a certain age of kids at different ages. It's been interesting for sure. Well, that's cool that you guys are doing that and giving

your kids and especially your daughters. You know, you guys are such great role models for them in the way you've handled conflict and controversy over the careers that you guys have had, you know, a dance moms and carrying that into what you're doing on the podcast. So I commend you guys for that because just from I have a front row seat to seeing how hard it is to be to be a mom. And Jana is the

best mom I know. And so even you guys talking about mom bragging, mom fail, it's I see the response that Janna gets when she talks about mom field because it is you guys, moms have so much more pressure for whatever reason, than than the dads. You really do, you know, It's it's really hard unless you're an absent father. It's hard to be a bad dad, you know, and but your moms it's just like the weight of it is is on you guys for decision making and everything else.

And so I commend you guys for talking openly about that because there is such scrutiny out there of of of you know, being judged as a mother and everything. So again, props to you guys for being do amazing ladies to do great role models. Oh thanks, guys. I mean, and I think I'd love to see like, yeah, you read your kids and you play with them, you do craft and that it's just you're I can tell what an amazing mom you are. Thank you. So I really

need to hear that today. Well, you see, that's that's the point of exactly that, Like you need to hear the who tells you that you like you just live your life on a daily fasis and you kind of parent in a vacuum and it's kind of nice to get that affirmation or just to feel like you're not alone. Absolutely, Well, I now know that because Mom said so will be my favorite podcast that I'm going to be listening to.

So um, I'm super excited the gangs all back together for the Because mom said to a podcast, you all listen to it, Um, even if you're not a mom. It's just nice to take some notes for the future and have some girl fun chats. Um all right, Melissa Holly, thank you guys so much for coming on Wine Down. We so appreciate that. Thank you for having just so much fun chatting on both of you. Thanks for having us. Okay, bye, love you guys, by love you, by love to come

to Nashville. Oh We'll be there. Okay, perfect, Okay, bye, guys. That was so fun. I I just I love talking about mom things, you know, and so I'm excited to listen to their new podcast for sure. Yeah, and again, I'm just impressed that because I know the moms have dealt with a lot of judgment scrutiny over the years with their roles on the show. So the fact that they're just able to you know, carry their weight and

just just trudged through all the crap. They're able to just again be good role models for their kids and just let it roll off them. You know. It's so funny because even when I take Jolia to dance, I'm like, I can see how they make a show out of this, because you always have like one kind of louder mom dance. You always kind of have one that's like sits on her phone and but like stairs and secretly judges someone, and then you have the other mom that's just like

best try to be best friends with everybody. Yeah, and then you have you know. So it's just of course it works, you know. And just hearing kind of the drama that Katherine always you know, she's a cheer mom, so I like hear the drama from like cheer mom's side, and it's just like, I wonder where I'm going to fit it. I can't wait to find out You're going to be all the above. Let's take a break and uh come back and talk some more. Oh goody? Can we Okay? So I got a d M from I

Want to lead It? No, I didn't, okay. It was on the wind Down Podcast Instagram. We got d M a question and I thought it would be an interesting topic to bring up. Hey, Janna, I was wondering if you and Mike could give me some advice. My husband and I are fighting over some things he said to me that really hurt my feelings, and when I tried working it out with him last night, he told me he didn't have anything to say. He has been giving me the silent treatment. Now he's not the type of

guy that likes to express his feelings. So what do I do? I use the tools in your book plus to try and express my feelings in a calm and healthy way, but he's not willing to work it out. Could this be shame? Could this be his shame for hurting me? Yes? Next? What else it got for me? Done? That was funny? Uh, not to make light of your question, but great question. Appreciate you reading the book and attempting

to use our tools. From my personal experience, it would be a shame because rehashing the things that he said to you, that upsets you, that hurts you, it is it's just shame. It's shameful. I've had those moments where I just I just like, can we just move past it? Can we? Just because I don't want to sit in it? And here Janna's vulnerable feelings coming from a good place, not like hurt in the moment, part, angry parts, sad. It's it's when you come back later, and it's just

truly just gentle vulnerability. That's even harder to hear, and it cuts into that shame even more so. I definitely think it is um my advice. But maybe My suggestion is going into it and kind of bringing that to light with him being like, Hey, just no that I love you and I know that you're you're sorry for the things that you said. Just I need this for me to talk about it. I'm not trying to shame you. I'm not trying to you know, repsualt in the wound.

I just want to I just need this to connect with you and just know at the end of this conversation I'm still gonna love you, and high probability that he'll drop that shame wall and meet you there. It's so hard, though, I I like, I totally hear you.

It's so hard for her though, in that situation when she's just like she just wants almost the apology back or something, you know, like I get wanted to be like all right, I don't want to talk about it, but to be in that area where she deserves the conversation like she deserves to have that conversation or and he deserves like she deserves to have him meet her halfway. And if he doesn't do that, then what d m

us again? You're on it today, babe, fire. We'll have one thing I'll leave for the listeners, Oh, leave us with something good bad. You know something our pastor said last week when he was talking around politics, you know, in a roundabout way and understanding the the amount of tension emotional tension in the air in our country right now,

and he kind of simplified it. He said, look, at the end of the day, neither one of these candidates, no presidential candidate, is the answer to save our world, or to save our nation, or to save us, you know. And he just he just kept bringing us back to Christ and a higher power and all of that. So it's like, no matter who is elected, gets elected this year, in four years and eight years or whatever it is, they're not the answer for humanity. They're not the answer

for us. You know. That's that's something higher than than the president. That's something spiritual. So it just I I appreciated his message because it just it brought me back down to earth and ground and be like, you know what, we don't have to put as much in that basket and that political basket as society is right now, because it's not the end of the world, although some think it is. Some think it is, and that's okay. That's

they're in top of that opinion. But nothing's bigger than a higher power if you believe in one, so even the President, well on that sunny note, See how next week