Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.
This week's therapy, We've got Vivianna Coles. She has a masterclass out coming June tenth at twelve thirty pm Central. It's called Pillow Talk with Doctor Vivienna, a free masterclass to enhance your relationship. Let's get her on. Hi, Hi, Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. I'm Jana and this is my fiance.
Alan, so, hey, hi, guys.
I thought it'd be fun to bring him on for this one because it's all about intimacy.
You don't know about it, you don't know yet, but you're in the hot seat and you can't leave.
I know. There.
Our heart was like, hey, do you think Alan can
maybe join the show? And when you know and I knew the I saw it was you as a guest, and I was like, oh, man, do I tell him beforehand or do I just surprise him that, hey, babe, this is about I mean, it's not just about sex, but intimacy is so much more than sex, which which I think kind of for me is one of my first questions because I think for so long I just connected sex as intimacy and didn't realize that it's so much more than just being physical with someone.
Well, and it's it could be so much more in general, but it's also more important whether or not your partner thinks it's so much more right and having that insight, So yeah, we can We're definitely gonna have to get into all of it.
So what do you think with that? Like, how you know because I think or do you actually? Do you think that women need a little bit more of that intimacy before kind of getting into things.
So a lot of times what I'm seeing because I've been now a therapist and seeing clients for like over twenty years and I predominantly work with this allan, so just know you're in good hands. I would say intimacy for women in general, like very broad terms. We usually want to have and feel the emotional connection before getting that physical connection, and oftentimes, but not always, men feel
the opposite. Usually we get our wires crossed and we're kind of judgmental about each of them and we can't really understand how somebody would need to have the physical before they had the emotional and others like, well, how could you get the emotional with that, I mean it's like this whole wire's crossing.
So with that, I will kind of bring this into our bedroom a little bit, because there's times when I'm like, babe, can you date me first? And I don't mean like take me on a physical day. I mean, sure, you know we have date nights and stuff, but he'll want to kind of just get right to it and if it's had, if it's been, maybe we don't ever go along.
I mean, I'm not going to get too into our sexual life, but you know, I just sometimes want the little I want to be dated in bed a little bit before had sometimes not all the time.
Don't apologize. This is exactly what we're talking about today, and it's going to be yeah, like don't apologize well.
Because sometimes I like to just do it, and you know, I love that piece of it, like it's fun for me too, but I do I'd prefer the the dating in bed before and so but I almost feel and this isn't I almost feel like sometimes that's kind of not annoying to you, but just like why like I date you all day kind of vibe?
No, I think, don't get misunderstood by this. We have a healthy relationship the most. Yeah. Yeah, So going back to your point about this is the tendency of what a woman may want and what a man may want when it comes to not just sex, but intimacy and affection and other things that go along with it. But with that, there's a there's a fine line with the man and the women feeling rejected because the needs are
the opposites. Really like a man would probably and I think about like the cave Man era when it's like, I want to be spontaneous, I want to I want to make love, I want to have sex, but I want to be dated. I want to feel I want you to touch on my emotional side. So how do couples deal with like? I think they're really good at understanding each other. Yeah so, but a lot of couples
wouldn't be like that. So how do they deal with the well, I feel rejected and the guys like, well, I feel rejected because I'm trying to make love to you and you don't want to and you want the emotion but you're not getting it, so that the women feels rejected. How does that? How do you how do you help couples with that?
I love that question. And it's exactly what has been on my mind and on my radar to a really large extent in the recent past. Because so I like to call it an underlying current of sensuality, and I believe that every long term relationship should try to nurture that and maintain that. And what I mean by that is so that it doesn't feel like you're going from cold to hot or like you're having to flip with light switch on. It's important to have that underlying current
of sensuality. And now I call it pillow talk. I want you to pillow talk outside of sexual experiences, outside of the bedroom, so that it makes sense to have sex. It makes sense when you come over to her and like mezzle her neck and she's not like wait what, like where is this coming from? Or the opposite where Janna, when you initiate and he's he's going to be like, wait, you even't like looked at me in a week now, obviously I don't know that that's your thing.
We have a very strong sexual connection like that's probably it's it's great, like it's it's really it's great, Like I love it. So there is we're and we're always like touching and and like that's kind of our Like we're constantly like you know, touching and doing even through the house like a butt grab or a whatever. Like it's there's always some sort of physical touch during the day.
But but sometimes you know, if it's yeah, if we had a busy day and then all of a sudden you're starting you're like, ah, like I kind of tired with three kids, and you know, but I think what you were kind of saying though, too is but both people want the same thing. I think it's some you know, they're both wanting the same thing. That might just the technique of getting there is where you come in.
Well, you love each other, you like each other, you enjoy sex with each other, you have sex. But for a lot of couples, what I'm noticing is that it just feels like it comes out of nowhere, Like there's no real way to know that there is that kind of air between you. Doesn't sound like that's the case for you, It's not the case for me and my husband of nearly seventeen years. Like, I totally get it, I get it, but it always hasn't always been that way.
A lot of couples struggle with that because life is life then and it gets in the way and all of that, and a lot of couples, especially those with children or with jobs or with property to manage all of that, and they don't do the touching, they don't do the kissing every day, They don't even say I love you every day. They just kind of assume it. And that's when sex can really kind of fall off the table.
So to say, is there a number that you're like, this is what a this is what should be that you should be doing, or kind of a goal for how much sex you should be having. I know it's different for everybody, but I mean there's got to be something. I know all that. I know everybody's different. I totally get that, you know, what works for some people don't work for others, But you know, I mean for us as a what do you suggest?
So what I suggest is twice a week to have some sort of sensual experience with one of them, hopefully being something maybe orgasmic, maybe intercourse related, maybe something more sexual, but at least two experiences. And again, what that is everybody looks different. I'm not going to yeah, you're young, you know whatever, but it could be like a massage, or it could be just laying together nude. It could be in the shower, just taking a shower together. It
could be talking in the tub. It could be sex, It could be oral it you know, it could be any of those things, trying a new toy, role playing, any of that. I suggest twice a week to stay healthy good.
I've got a question since you've you've done master classes and you're you're clearly an expert in your field, so I mean we're in a healthy phase. So what I don't want to do is talk about hours too much
because we've got viewers and listeners. So I think putting it out to the to the masses on what may be issues for other people is how do people overcome like if they're in a relationship and those those resentment, or there's being disrespect or there's been periods of cheating, or even if it's something as simple as they've let themselves go and they're not attracted to each other any longer, how do people rescue the intimacy and affection and sex
and those types of relationships with those those negative impacts.
Yeah, well, first of all, just acknowledging that in any long term relationship you're going to experience and those sorts of issues, you know. I think about it in terms of, like our planet has been hit countless times by meteors. They're not always big, but most of the time they're small. But it's going to happen. When you live long enough together, you're going to have something hit you. So you're not
alone in that. And I think a lot of people question should we even be together if we're struggling with communication? Should we even be together if we're going through this drought, and they kind of go straight to this, Oh my gosh, this hit us. Now can we even go you know, get through it? If you struggle with an issue for longer than six months on your own and you've tried whatever that looks like, quote unquote, I want you to
get help professionally. If you want to invest in your long term relationship, just know relationship therapists, this is what we do day in and day out. We work with couples and we've seen I mean, especially if you've done it as long as I have, We've seen all sorts of things. We can help, but you have to seek it out otherwise you probably are going to experience blow after blow after blow and not a good way for a really long time. The other thing that I would
say about overcoming it is acknowledging it. Acknowledge that there's an issue in the relationship so that your partner doesn't feel like they're alone or you know, sometimes when you're like, ah, they're kind of in a bad mood, I'm not really I don't really want to talk about it because I don't want to bring it up. It might make things worse. You're only going to make things worse if you don't bring it up, and so acknowledging it openly is very important.
For the listener that feels rejected in this space of intimacy, What is your advice for that, because I, you know, not to bring up past stuff, but just relating off of past. When I had a partner that struggled with intimacy, all I thought was it was my belief that I wasn't either pretty enough or good enough, or it didn't. It just always kind of went back to what I was doing wrong or what I was doing wrong. And even I know now it had nothing to do with me,
but and I can make sense of that now. But for the person that is trying to make sense of that. What would be something useful for them to kind of rest in in that, you know, place of not feeling like a feeling it's them.
Well, again, I'm a big fan of therapy, so doing that also really finding out if it's very specifically that you're having troubles with intimacy. I would say read my book The Four Intimacy Styles. Take the quiz. It's a free quiz online. You can check that out to help you to at least start the language look like, know the terminology, know what you're talking about, so that it can start. You can start that communication with your partner. The other thing that I would tell you to do
is don't go straight to the personal. Chances are there's a lot going on in your partner's life that it really has nothing to do with you, And so maybe starting off with that, like, hey, babe, I've noticed that you really haven't shown interest in me lately. What's going on? You know? Is there anything going on in life that I don't know about? Is there anything on the horizon do you see kind of the do you see the light in the tunnel? And maybe I can become aware
of that. I just want to know where we stand with this. Don't think that asking is going to exacerbate the issue. That's part of the work of being in a long term relationship. You need to ask those hard questions.
I think it's hard too because I have I know people that struggle with I've had a long day, I don't want to be intimate, like it's just and then the pressure of going, oh gosh, now they're going to want to because it's bedtime and having that anxiety of going to bed. Is it the same thing with that, like, communicate with them like, hey, I know you probably want to. I'm just not It's not you. It's like what do you do with that?
Yeah? So I guess another little rule that I come up with that is just a guide more than anything, is don't reject your partner's sexual advances more than three times in a row, because without any sort of explanation, obviously, if you're feeling sick, if you're going out of town, like, there are certain things that you just can't do. But I would say again, part of nurturing that relationship is sometimes to suck it up and put yourself in that mood if you need to, you know, really date yourself.
If you need to maybe do some tub time, or read an erotic book or listen to some audio erotica to get you into the mood, you know, ask for a massage, like do whatever it takes. But I would say more than three times in a row, and it starts to get where it's like, well, I'm not even going to try, and then it builds and turns into something so much more.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it comes back to like you've mentioned communication and how powerful that is, and I think I've always got and we speaking with us a lot, don't we We've always get the mindset of in order to maintain the intimacy and the power of the intimacy and our relationship, then we need to really maintain the purity of the relationship.
What do you mean by that?
I think in my head like intimacy goes when resentment comes in. If someone if someone has broken boundaries, are broken respect or the values of the relationship, then I think there becomes an issue. So I think we we really put that at the forefront of keeping the relationship. You are making sure your trust and respect. Is Is it the top of the Is it the top of the chain, because it limits the resentment. That limits the negative thoughts, It limits the voice inside your head or
the voice inside my head. So I think we're really good at that side of that side of things, although we're not. We're not perfect, but we try and maintain and like intimacy that way.
I love that trust and respect are they are huge hallmarks of a healthy relationship, and I have noticed that with my client. If respect has left, even if it's just you know, temporarily, like if people are starting to be out of talking, just awful to each other, that's the first thing I want to put a stop to. And that usually includes like, Okay, don't curse at each other, don't call each other names, don't be sarcastic, because if you're not in a good place, all of those things
are just adding kindling, you know, to the issue. And so I love that. And then trust also reminding couples that sharing how you feel builds trust, withholding feelings breaks it down, whether you know it or not. So I love that that's something that you're encouraging your listeners and yourselves to do.
Yeah, I just think we never want them to be false. And if something is, if something is broken off ractual, then that antimacy can become false and that's something that we really cherished, don't they, Well, I.
Think because we both know how much it can fracture a relationship. Yeah, so it's important into us to keep that at the top for sure. What is something that you when what's the first I mean is it is it the you know, swearing at each other or like, what's the what's one of the things that you when you're sitting with your couples that you're just like, oh, like, I wish they would just stop this one thing.
Assuming that they know exactly what their partner is thinking or what's going to come out on their mouths. That happens all the time. And if you're with somebody along and maybe you might be right, But when you're trying to do things differently and you're hoping to change the dynamics of your relationship, the first thing you need to do is is not assume that you know exactly what's going to happen, because then you're basically cutting it off
at the knees. You're cutting change off at the knees. So, yeah, don't do that.
I do have one quick because you're you know, obviously you sit with couples, and I was watching an interview another podcast, I think it was Nick Biles where he had a therapist on. There he was and the lady was saying, you know, she actually was saying that sometimes couple's therapy is you know, it's not that she's saying it's not good, but sometimes it's it's not really helpful because it's you're bringing up so much stuff that's it's
almost like causing more issues. Is that what's kind of your And I don't know exactly how it was said, It kind of just like hurt a little snippet of it.
Certainly. Yeah, No, I feel like I've experienced that too. But as a therapist, I will tell them, I'll be like, hey, it sounds like, you know, we've dug up something that you had already you know, worked on and had resolved. Is there something new that y'all need to work on or can we actually put that to bed. Unfortunately, some therapists maybe maybe they're newer, they're inexperience, they don't know that they should acknowledge that, and sometimes therapy is is
not what's necessary. Sometimes it's actually just practicing these things at home. And that's why I'll go, you know, with clients that maybe I saw first for you know, three times a week, I'll go, and then it'll be once every four months just for a check in, and sometimes they need guidance with that. But you're right, there are times where if a couple has worked through something and you bring it back up, they're going to leave feeling like, wait, what did we just We didn't work on anything, We
just dug step up. So you have to be really good about making sure that that's not the case.
So what can listeners expect from your free masterclass to enhance the relationship? Like, what are some of the biggest takeaways that they're going to get from that?
The biggest takeaways are that you're going to learn how you behave towards each other, how you show or don't show sexual interest in your partner outside of the bedroom is actually far more important in the long term than what is going on inside the bedroom. It can really make your day or not. It can really ruin things. It can erode your communication, your trust, your respect, all
of those things. If you feel like you just don't know if your partner wants you or if you want them, So talking about that, the different types of pillow talk. We're going to talk about that. I'm going to be sharing a way to figure out what yours is, and then of course sharing the best way to pillow talk and making sure that you can keep that spark alive for as long as you'd like.
Wait, I want to know what the best one is, and I know you can't tell me because people want But now I know and are.
Going to have to be there on June time, June tu.
I'm like, what's because I'm always like, all right, give me the give me the lesson plan, like what's the best thing, Like what can we because I'm always wanting to learn and practice, and so I'm like, what is it?
I know, I know you want to know. I'll have to be am you on the.
Side, but no, thanks, girl, I want you to be there.
I feel like it's so important for people in community to know, like whether you're in a really great relationship and you just want to maintain it or you're really struggling knowing these things and taking the time out to take an hour out of your day for free to learn on about these things as part of the work of being in a long term relationship. So I'm going to make you work for it too, Janna.
I love that. And then also you have your book too, the.
Four Intimacy Styles, and you can check that out at doctor Viviana dot com. There's a free quiz that you can take there to learn what percentage of each of the four you're at alan, just so you know, the goal is to be at twenty five percenter as close to twenty five percent of each during each or every nearly every sexual experience. You can take that quiz and see where you're at, and you and Janet can compare notes.
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really really really appreciate it.
Thanks and thanks for sharing some of your experiences. But more than anything, I think you're right. We need to be talking about these things more in general, because any given day is different in your relationship and if you want to long term one pillow talk is the key, and the four Intimacy Styles can help.
Okay, awesome, Thank you so much, appreciate it. Thanks you guys, all right bye, Henny