Wind Down with Jana Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.
This week's a doll education. We have on Hannah Gordon.
So.
She is one of the most influential women in football by the NFL dot Com. She is a game changer and she's got a new secondition book out Call the Season to Change the competitors Playbook for Joy on the Path to Victory.
Hey, hi, Jana, how are you? I'm good?
Thank you?
How are you? I'm good? And I feel like I should have a couch because.
Even if I look very business today, are you are you at home?
I am? Yeah?
Where's home?
Santa Clara so, San Francisco Bay Area?
Love?
Okay, I love that.
I am in Nashville and it's a really rainy, overcast day, so it's just like, yeah, cozy, I just want to yeah, get all cozy up. But we'll just jump right into it. What were your thoughts on Super Bowl?
I thought Kendrick's halftime show was incredible. I think that was my big takeaway.
I did not know one song, so I just must be literally I was watching it and going, this is the first time where I'm like, I feel so incredibly old, Like I didn't know one song. I thought there was one that I was like, Oh, I think I know it, and then I was like, nope, still don't. I didn't know any of the surprise guest people. I was like, oh, he didn't bring anybody out, and everyone's like, yes he did,
like he brought this person, this person out. I was like, couldn't have told you, Like, not a clue.
Well, then, what did you think of the Super Bowl? Well?
Super Bowl? I thought it was like halftime, so I met more like on the football side of things, like you know, between the Eagles and the Chiefs. I loved it. I was rooting for the Eagles, and I thought it was great.
It was so good.
I think the nice thing about working in football for a long time is you have friends in every team. So yeah, if you're not in the Super Bowl, it's always disappointing, obviously, but you root for other people, so you're like, you're happy for whoever it is at whatever team.
Yeah.
I was a little surprised that it was so lopsided.
I knew the Eagles roster was stacked, but I was expecting.
It to be a little closer.
Yeah, no, for sure. I mean I think it was a shock for everybody, and that's always I love I love, love love football. So it was hard because I'm a Lions fan, so it's you know, born and raised Detroit, so Lions have always been And like you know, it was a really tough loss this year for us.
It felt like your year.
I thought so too. But I mean the Eagles, man, they were They're just so stacked and they were all so healthy, it seemed like, and so we were not. I don't we would have I think have gotten cremated in the end, but like we did. But you know, it's one of those where for me, I've always enjoyed, Like it's always so sad, you know, when they go to show the sidelines and they see, you know, the people the person that the team that's losing, and I feel my heart like breaks for them, but also there's
so much I'm so happy for these random players. I don't even know it all, but they're crying and they're so happy, and it's like to be able to. So it's like I'm so sad, but I'm also so happy for the people that went into even whether it was even if the Chiefs would have won. Again, I've been I love when people's dreams come true and they you know, they succeed and they're happy, and like, I love that, and then I feel so sad for the people that you know lose, because losing isn't fun.
You're right, you're empathic and like it's natural, Like I feel that way. That's why sports is so cathartic, right, It's like you get to feel other people's pain and.
Also other people's joy and somebody's just claiming the other day.
The word for it in Buddhism is mudita, the details do you feel when someone else feels joy? And I was like, oh, that's what a great word to have in your vocabulary or in your language, right, is to like have a word for the joy you feel from other people's joy.
Yep.
Absolutely.
And how did you get into football?
I started way back in college.
So I went to UCLA, and as a homesick freshman, sitting on my little dorm room bed figuring out what to major in, I started watching a ton of sports and I saw Hannah Storm hosting halftime during the NBA playoffs and she was just smart and witty and funny, and I was like, this is a job, Like you can just talk about sports and be smart and funny,
Like how do I get that job? So I applied to the student paper and started covering football for the student paper and did that for my junior and senior years. That led to internships at the Raiders. I'm from Oakland, originally in PR. I worked at Fox Sports West in production. After I graduated, I went to the NFL Players Association, which, for folks who don't know, is the union for the players and did digital content for them.
So it wasn't about the guys then, wasn't about the football player?
No, to me, the game is like it's just a beautiful game.
It's like chess but with sort of like brutal physicality and like incredible physical skill.
And then your book, So now you have what I guess for you know, for the women that are listening. What is the message then in your book? Obviously it centers around the sports, you know, in football terms, right or yeah. So the book is essentially how to get wherever it is you want to go and figure that out through the lessons of football. So it first grew out of so many people asking me like how do I get where you are? Like how do I become a woman at the top of a.
Male dominated industry or whatever it might their dream might be. And so I really had to reflect on like okay, yeah, like how did I get here? Like what are the lessons that made me successful? And I realized that those lessons really matched up to what I had learned through the game itself. And so I take you through first film study, which is essentially self awareness, right, which we need to have for our own lives as well as if we want to lead other people. Second vision, which
obviously athletes use and so many other people successfully. Third game plan, like that once you have the vision, you have to figure out what are the steps to get where you want to go? And then fourth team, which is who are the people around you? Like who is it that you need in your life to get where you want to go? Fifth is in game adjustments, So like you have a plan, but you know the chiefs
had a plan too, Like it didn't work. You have to adjust, right, Like at halftime, you're going to make adjustments, Like we.
All have to do the same thing.
Like you know I've read about like your story, like things didn't go perfectly for you, and you made adjustments right and found the way to get there, and then.
What I call reading the clips.
So when you are you know, like yourself, you're famous, like people talk about you all the time. But even if you're not famous, you're constantly getting feedback and that might be on social that might be just the way your coworker looks at you, or the way your spouse says something in the morning. Like you're getting incoming information all the time and you have to figure out how to categorize that and what to do with it. And
then the seventh piece is recovery. So in sports, this has really developed a lot in the last twenty years, really understanding human performance and recovery, and I think it unfortunately hasn't trickled quite enough to the rest of us that like what our sleep, what we eat, how much hydration we get, it is affecting our performance as well,
like our brain's performance, our bodies performance. So it doesn't really matter, like you don't have to be a professional athlete if you want to be great at podcasting and acting, or you want to be great at being a parent or anything like, you do have to take care of your body and focus on what recovery looks like for you.
And then The.
Last piece is practice, So it's you've got to cycle through all these things over and.
Over again because it's all practice makes perfect.
What do you think of out of those what has been the most helpful football analogy lesson in your life film study?
So I think for me, like that was understanding that observing yourself kind of from the outside or replaying things, not in a like self critical to be self critical way, but just to step outside yourself as the observer and be like, okay, like what are the things I'm doing over and over again?
Like what are my patterns? Like how could I break that?
So for me, that's the most powerful piece, and that's why it's the first piece, because I think for most people it's like until you work through whatever that stuff is, the rest of it's never going to work without fixing that.
No, It's true. I remember when I used to tour on the road, we would listen back to the to the board tape and it was probably my least favorite thing that I did with the band, but it was the best thing that I did to grow and to become a better, better singer and you know, better entertainer because I would listen to be like, oh, God, that was so incredibly flat or that or you know, I'm so
out of breath here, how can I change this? Or you know that well that joke actually wasn't that funny, And like, you know, there's just so many things where I'm like, it was the hardest thing to listen and watch myself not do great at But there was also moments where I was like, Okay, I got better throughout it, and the I became more confident through the process of it, too, like being able to go, Okay, you know, I've got stuff I need to work on, and I think that's
that's a good you know. I kind of I kind of think back now on that with other areas of my life. I don't love to watch myself when a movie comes out, but I think there's certain scenes and I'm like, I want to see how that. Like I need to watch some pieces of it to be able to go, okay, I really wasn't as connected as I should have been or whatever it was, you know, how to improve because I think that is a really good tool for everybody.
One hundred percent. Like what you described is exactly film study for athletes.
Yeah, it's interesting, it was very Yeah, I'm I totally just like I remember that. I was like, but I got to think how I can incorporate that now into you know, today, And then what for you do you think? Where do you think people? Obviously you know the playbook and stuff, but where do you think you know other people, like another one that people could really dive into to be able to to grow.
Yeah, so well, the.
Whole book is the combination of a memoir and a journal for you. So it's like the person reading and is creating half of the book. And one of the things they kind of to is like the three daily tools I've used for years and I hope will continue to use forever, which is and they sound simple, but they're they're profound if you actually do them every day. Number one is gratitude, So just writing down three things that you're grateful for, and it could be you know, three wins you.
Had, like you can kind of shape it how you want.
The second is affirmation, so writing down I am blank whatever you know, if you're Jana, you're I am a great actress, an awesome mom, a wonderful wife, a you know, a successful podcaster. I or it could be you know, like I am incredibly present with you, like whatever it is that you're affirming about yourself.
And then the third is focus.
So every day I set what is the focus for today, And I find that that's really helpful for prioritization because none of us can do all the things, So being really clear about what's the most important today, I find really helpful.
Yeah, it was interesting too. While I was reading this came up online. I don't know if it was true or not, but it said it was the most watched super Bowl in like forever.
That.
I mean, that's what all the articles are saying.
So yeah, I'm going to same there's a data point, but I think one hundred and twenty eight million local viewers of just the halftime, but usually they have even more than that, I think globally.
Do you think the t Swift effect plays into that a little bit too, That's a good question.
I don't know sort of what research was done to see like how much that effect has had over time. I mean Super Bowl generally is watched even by like super casual fans all over the world, because for people who don't even watch football, they watch it for the commercials or for the halftime. Sure, I do think some people who are more football fans definitely wanted to see, like if the Chiefs with repeat obviously, that would be
like a really historic thing. And then I think, you know, the Eagles have a very strong, you know, fan base, those are you know, sizable enough, I think markets it's not surprising.
Yeah, no, for sure. I was just find it so interesting because you know, I have some people on accounts and they're like, oh, you know Taylor stuff. I'm like, hey, like she's brought a lot of you know, women over to football and like, and again, I love football, so I think it's I think it's great, you know. And yeah, so I think that's I think that's a cool thing.
Yeah, I think it's a great thing.
The fan base, even before you know, Taylor and Travis were together, was already forty eight percent female, which I think a lot of people don't realize.
Oh that's interesting.
I had no idea it was already forty eight percent females. So it's like we were already there, but right, for sure.
But I still think it's great that they're obviously, you know, you can see by the follower accounts that he had change and that the Chiefs had changed.
That. Certainly they got extra fans from her, no doubt.
What would you like to see change in football?
M It's not so.
I mean, I think it's an amazing, great game and it's always evolving. They're always pushing the rules to be not only safer, but to be faster. So, like I both have very small children, I always I have always appreciated defense. I kind of understand now why there's always a push for offense now that I have very small children who are like, I want to see another touchdown, you know, They're like, they just want to see touchdowns.
So I get that.
I think one of the things that's kind of exciting as a change is that flag is going to be in the Olympics in twenty twenty eight, which also obviously opens up a lot of opportunity for women because it's going to be a male and female sport in the Olympics, and there's some talk now that there may be a professional women's.
Flag lead coming.
Interesting A flag yeah, because yeah, well you know you look at hockey though, and they're all padded up, So why does it have to be flag?
Well, you know, it doesn't have to be flag, But I'll say I don't know how many. If you go to really competitive flag game, it is a pretty like aggressive intense contact.
Yeah, I mean kind of like lacrosse. I've seen you know, women playing like man, it's intense, physical, very I mean I kind of have a little PTSD when I think about the flag football just goes back to my powder puff days and high school. And I was like, on the target list, I'm like, how.
Did I do? Like what?
I don't understand? Why? Why are the seniors targeting?
Like?
This did not feel fun? I think we lost too, so but I would like it. I would like a repeat that. I mean for you is it? I think it's got to be great because I love I love Aaron Andrews and I love Chris A. Thompson. I think
it's I love to see women in sports. So that's why I was excited to see your name on the rundown because you, like you said, like, you're in a male dominated sport and you're making waves, and so what is what is it about you that was able to really get in there and for women that also want to, you know, follow the same path in which is mostly business, a male dominated world with business.
Yeah, I think a lot of it comes down to confidence. I think to survive in any type of highly competitive and sometimes difficult environments, like you have to really believe in yourself so that when people are either putting you down or whatever it is, that you are very clear about like who you are. So I think that's probably
the most important part. Like anyone who's trying to succeed in a field like that, I always tell them, like, you've got to have confidence and competence, Like you've got to be great at what you do, but you also have to project to everyone else that you know that you're great at what you do.
Yeah, you have to do it yourself.
And how old you say your kids were?
My kids are three and one.
Any boys. My one year old's a boy, a boy? Would you let him play football?
Oh? What a good question that we discuss our house all the time. He loves basketball and football, but mostly basketball. It's a favorite card right now. I would definitely let both of them play flag. I'm the type of like hyper warrior that like I worry about them playing like anything. Like I'm like, I'm like, I need to get them hard tested to play basketball, like I'm just so I'm probably not the right person to ask, because I'm like,
can I bubble wrap them? Like can they like should you even be tumbling right now?
I know, but I think there's such a difference. And you see all the stuff about the you know, what happens with the concussions and the what's the CTE?
Is that right?
So that's scary stuff, you know, and especially if you started a young age. I remember talking to my ex husband about it because he obviously he played football, and you know, I now that our son's older, we know that that's definitely not in his lane. Like he doesn't like to be he doesn't love the wrestling like that. So that's great, so we don't have to have that conversation.
But like you know, it was one of those things where he was like, we're gonna wait until later down the line, you know, where it's not super super young, and yeah, I mean even then, it's like I just you just hear stories and it's as a mom, it's like I can't even like imagine I don't want him to get you know, wrestled or.
I mean that's the case of like every right, like I'm always.
Like, ah, they built down, I'm like, are you okay?
My gosh, my son he was at a baseball and I was my daughter. He was at baseball and then my daughter. They were same time game. And so I'm going from his field to my daughter's field, and all I saw was my son holding his like nose and like blood coming down. And I and like my gut instinct is what I did. But I ran into the field like like I just had But I just saw blood in my child. And you know, like the coaches
like he's fine. I'm like no, I'm like, Jay's like, you know, but the ball like hit him in the nose and it gave him a bloody nose. And so but I'm even just stuff like that, I can't imagine if you got like Hackle, I would be pulling the kids off and be like throwing them off like idea psycho.
But you know they'll figure it out. But but geting back to football, though, I mean, I think there is so much you know, it's a it's a great game, and the fact that you know, you get pushed back, you get pushed down, you get back up, and there's so many lessons in football that totally you know, are great to teach kids. Yeah, yeah, what do you hope readers take away from the second edition of your book.
I hope they just take away their their own confidence when they're done, their own clarity. I think what I've heard from readers, like I've had people who've reached out with been like I I left an abusive marriage after I used this book.
I changed shops after I use this book. And it doesn't have to.
Be anything that dramatic, but I think both that confidence and also that clarity, right, it's I think the film study is really the piece that like changes people, because if you're not somebody already who journals every day, I think just that act of having that time to not only reflect. But Julia Cameron, who's the author of The Artist's Way, which I don't know if you've ever done,
I feel like it's very popular among all artists. I know she has talked about for decades that you can only lie to yourself on the page for so long, Like if you're writing consistently, like you are going to start seeing like kind of what's really going on in there. And I think that that's a really powerful tool. And so I hope that what people take away from it is clarity and confidence.
I like that. And then one of the things too in your book, you said, you know, playing to win while still prioritizing joy. How do you find that balance because it's really hard even for me, where it's I want to win, I want to book these things, and when I don't, I feel like when I don't book them, and then my joy goes away, and so much of my joy is dependent on my wins. And how do you manage that when the wind isn't there but you want the joy to be there?
Yes, one hundred.
So I love that you said that that it really comes back to like those gratitude exercises, Like we have to start choosing to find joy in everything, and then you start seeing it more places, because like you're essentially training your brain to see the joy instead of to
see the lack. And so like when you're doing that every day, like you'll find it easier and easier because you're realized like, oh wait, like I didn't book that event, but like I'm a beautiful, famous actress, married to somebody who loves me, who has you know, multiple healthy children and like a dope podcasts, and like.
You start it just trains your brain.
To be like oh Wow, wait, my life is awesome, Like I have so much that is bringing me joy. And also you start finding the joy and like just really small basic things like whether it's like a hot shower, your favorite type of pop coffee, or whatever, you realize like there's joy around you all the time. So like if you don't book that, you're more likely to be like, huh, maybe it wasn't meant for me. Like, guess guess my joy is coming in the next.
Thing, right, Ye know that makes sense. I like that. Well, thank you for coming on. Uh wait, by the way, who do you root for? Since you have so many friends and different yeah, rot you have one.
I don't have a single team.
I need you to pick one. I really do.
Oh you do? Okay, well.
Really, I mean obviously I was with the forty nine ers for so long, so I guess I'll say the forty nine ers.
But I am from Oakland, so you.
Stole our coach from Michigan.
Yes, but yeah, so I'm from Oakland, so I'll always have silver and black and me as well.
Okay, I like that.
Well, thank you for coming on, and everyone go get the Season of Change. The competitors playbook for Joy On The Path to Victory second edition.
Thank you girl. I have a great thing