A Healthy Way to Fight.

anxious about this whole thing. But the people who make hand sanitized it must be having a party right now. Bonus, it's for everybody. Oh yeah, everybody gets some. Oh yeah. I honestly though, I was talking to my trainer and her husband trains a doctor at Vanderbilt, and he was saying, like his wife had it, but she was totally fine. And then you know, people don't even realize they have it, but they do have it, and but it's fine. But then I think what worries me is just the old

their people for sure. But but then I saw one this morning and guy was forty eight years old and nearly died. He said he was like he was inches from death and I'm forty eight years old, So I guess you just don't know how it's going to hit you. Is that how it is? How did you know him? How do you know? No? No, I saw some something on social media just pops up about they did an interview with him. That's so scary. Yeah, it's just I

guess it just depends. But um, well, when everyone's listening to this, we're not there right now, but we'll be in Canada when this comes out next week. So um but I'm not like, I'm not too worried about it, and I do what wipe the seats with? You know, when we did our wind down tour, we were wet wiping everything and which, by the way, Easton are the dates got moved? Did you hear? I saw that. I saw it and I with a single tear rolled down my cheek and then I changed my calendar and my phone.

The dates for Californian Sacramento are being moved to May. So yeah, so hopefully people can still know that's a that's at the Yeah, May thirty in Los Angeles Saturday and May one Sunday with a Sacramento. I just have to double check because you just never know, you know, and we're hoping everything is going to be better by that is that the idea, We're just going to keep going. Well, it got canceled because I'm doing a movie up in Canada,

so that's why I got rescheduled. But yeah, I mean hopefully, I mean, are people canceling things? So, I mean I heard stagecoaches maybe gonna get you rescheduled. That's done, that's going to October. Coachella is going to October moved Like I don't because that's that. I feel sad for people's you know, everyone's jobs and everyone happening. But at least

those things are getting moved. Sporting events might be being played with like no fans, like March madness, like college basketball, same with a c m S. They might have no audience. That's just the energy. Yeah. I just wish they would do this for the flu though, I really do. We'd be having it all the time, like every yeah, every every October to January. Everything. You should just be dark, dark season, every just off the grid, zombie land like

the Apocalypse. No more summer break, it's flu break. What's that movie where they go around they have like twelve hours dawned to dusk where they can just like go around and it's like yaking people off. What's perch from people? Are ya? What does that means? My words? You know? I like to come up with a new words and piss michaelf yea. It's like jacking, but yeah, come off, it's funny. How you are you? I'm tired from that tour.

I'm tired, but I'm I'm good. I'm just getting ready for the movie and just there's just a lot to do before we leave. But it's good. About a hundred and seventy three pages to memorize A Wow, can you tell us anything about the movie? Wow, it's filming at the Ice Hotel in Quebec City. That's so cool, so cool, stet out of ice and um, you know, it's the typical girl meets boy, boy falls in love with girl. Maybe girl might fall in love with boy. I don't know.

We'll see. I mean like a not really but maybe maybe a kisser too too a PG audience. But the one of the producers emailed me today and she's like, hey, how are you with UM country or how are you with UM skiing? And I was like she's like zero to ten, and I was like ten just because I'm want to be excited, and you know, because I am excited.

Never skied, but I said ten. But then I looked back at the email and she meant cross country skiing, and I like, it's just like walking, right, So I'm I'm saying I'm still a ten and I'm not going to go back on it. But I did respond and I was like, but if there's a ski lift, I'm negative one. So if we could just confirm there's no heights, the ski lifts are a challenge the element. Yeah, I mean that's what I had a massive panic attack when I was filming an episode one Tree Hill on a

ski lift. It was awful. It's harder on a snowboard, really, yes, because you have only one foot in and you have to get off and just put your other foot on the board. Last time we went, like a couple of years ago from my birthday in Park City, I took some guy out getting off, some random guy that had to be sitting next to me. I felt so bad.

That's hilarious. Everybody exaggerates on their resumes, you know, everyone always says they're better at things than they are, they speak more language, and than they do they hire g p A. It's funny to know that still even at your situation, you've already booked the gig and you're still lying about your personal skills. I know. Is that's something, isn't it? Because I I just think I want to just be so like Gung Ho and like yeah, I'm so sighted and like I'm a ten skier, and then

I'm like, I'm not. I've never skied before. I'm screwed. Here's the thing with that though. I'll actually back up jan on this because when it comes to something like athletic athletic or just really anything, Janna is one of those people like you know, we all know that guy that he's just good at everything, right, He's just you give him a baseball and he's throwing strikes. You're give him basketball, he's hitting three pointers like for the first

time ever. Janna is like the same way if it's like, hey, we're gonna do this. You see me snowboard about a year and a half ago, but that you're also pregnant, so you're just kind of like standing on a board. But we just clarify that I wasn't pregnant snowboarding. I was like, I was, I was two days pregnant. That was when we had a miscarriage. Yeah, not because of snowboarding, because I see that. I was like, let's clarify that.

But I was technically pregnant, like by two days. But then we lost the embryo, right, But so you you didn't really go after it, you didn't really try. So I'm just I have so much confidence in you doing something athletically that I'm like, yeah, probably by the end of this movie, she will be attend at cross country skiing. But it isn't cross country skiing, just like walking, like I did it when I was I think seven. I mean, yeah,

I think you'll be okay. But had you said eight, I don't think that would have been a big lie necessarily, and they maybe would have had somebody there to kind of make sure you understand how to get your boots into this better than this. You all know Janna is all or nothing cross country skiing the next few days. But no, it is a very interesting point that, like, why didn't I be more honest about my skill level? Did she ask your skill level? What did she ask?

How do you feel about on a second, this is I'm going to read it to you exactly what she said one second. Let me get my password in three one once she goes okay, so she says okay. Um skiing, she says, good afternoon. Um, reaching to find out, on a scale of one to ten, how comfortable you are with cross country skiing comforts? So are you comfortable with skiing up a slight incline? And I was like ten, brilliant, Yeah, I think you're okay. There, she'll be right, we'll see.

Now I have a new question answer that's an iPhone. Yes, why don't you use facial recognition? I do, but my face has the headphones on, and I don't think it. Okay, all right, all right, I'm just curious. But thanks dad, Why aren't you doing this stuff? Trigger? Trigger? Trigger? Well, because we were a couple of weeks ago we realized Seacrest doesn't use the face things. Well, he was like, I don't want that stuff, like it seems like he's

paranoid that the camera's watching him or something. I think some people are like that. It's always watching a man. He's filmed ol day long. Yeah, of all people, I'm excited I'm excited for Canada. Yeah, I saw. I was wondering, how are you Are you pumped? I am actually really pumped. I'm really looking forward to. I'm looking forward to. Mike had no desire to come to New Iberia. When I said we're going to Quebec City, He's like, we're calming,

will calm. The whole time. It was like, let's do it. Finds out that there's a ski left place like twenty minutes away. Yeah, um no, I am excited because I'm really pumped just to get the kids out and take them somewhere. We haven't really taken him anywhere this year, you know, just get him out and get him in the snow and have some fun. Um. I got the cutest snow pants for Jolly and Jay. So I'm so.

I just think it's gonna be cool. You know, it's so magical for kids, it is, and I think that's why I'm so excited, because I'm still a big kid. So I'm just like, well, it's so, I'm pumped. Fine, Um, Well, I am excited because we have Jancy done Um on the show today. Her book Perfect Time title just honestly makes me just happy inside it's called How Not to Hate Your Husband After Kids Mark. So we're going to get her on the phone, but first let's take a break.

It's Janina from Love and Sight, a new I Heart Radio podcast all about the TV show Love Is Blind? Are you addicted to Love is Blind? We are here to satisfy all your Love is Blind cravings and if you haven't watched yet, join us everywhere you listen to podcasts for everything you need to know. Do you want to find out how Damian and I got back together? Yep,

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listen to podcasts. Hi, Hi, jan It's Mike and Jana. Hey. Hello, I've listened to every single episode, so I'm a super fan. I hope I won't creep both of you out. I love it, um and I love How to Not Hate your Husband After Kids? Um? I love that you wrote that book. That is so awesome. Um, how how old are your kids? Okay, I just I just have the one. I mean I didn't even have to like you guys, it was just one and cheese. Now ken and I wrote.

I wrote the book for the same reason that you all talk about what can be painful subjects on the podcast, because there's so much shame around fighting when you first have a baby. I felt like no one did it, and now I know, like everyone does it. Yeah. It's so funny because I was just talking to a friend the other day and she was I'm not going to name her name, but she was like, you know, it's crazy. Their baby is like five months old, and she's like,

I really don't like my husband. And I was like, girl, it's just a thing. After you have kids. It's really hard, but you guys just have to really work on your communication. And but she's like, but I didn't know it was going to be like that, and I'm like, yeah, I feel like people should have it like a pamphlet on how to not hite your kids. How did I hate your husband after kids? And just exactly why you wrote

your book because people don't really talk about it. No, no, And I have friends after I wrote the book who said, oh yeah. I didn't talk to John for two years after the twins were born. I was like, why why didn't you say anything to me? I mean, you know, it's just it's this thing where when you have a boyfriend or a girlfriend, you kind of talk about them, maybe with your friends a little bit, but it's a

little different when you're married. And I felt like I couldn't talk about it with my mother, who has a really long memory and would would remember twenty years from now anything that I told her. So and I just

felt and I also felt embarrassed. I thought, you know, we would get in these fights and our pattern, um, this may sound familiar to a lot of people, is called pursuer distance, or where I would yell and he would retreat, and the more I would yell, the more he would sort of like turn gray and crumple into a little ball and so so, and I would be like, can you hear me now? And I would I would

swear I'm from New Jersey. I'm very creative with my variations of you know, dick dick, dick head, dick bag, and so what my daughter saw I mean you all, I know, on another um wind down, you were talking about being worried about you know, oh, how much is my daughter seen in the early days and isn't going to impact her later? Is Joey going to be you know,

will the show up later? I'm sure you've heard from many parents that have said they don't remember anything, you know, before the age of four, including the expensive Disney vacation we took him to. But like with with us, I started noticing Sylvie, my daughter started changing her personality at around age four. Like you already through a lot of that stuff, but with us, it was really reaching a crescendo.

And so what were you seeing now? She just turned for She just turned for So she's and you you have learned how to disagree in like a healthy way. And we were in the meantime, our daughter was four, and what started happening is You're like, are you going to get a question in at any point? I'm sorry, I'm like talking about this is the subject I loved

talking about. We noticed that her personality was changing. She was this bubbly, happily happy girl, and she started getting kind of quiet and she started getting a little watchful and then because I was the one yelling, even though Tom admits, now that's my husband. He he was the problem with us when when we had the baby, is that he he was this evolved guy and he was like, oh, I'm going to help out. He didn't. We we fell back into these really old patterns where he didn't do much.

Like my life changed a lot and I did most of the housework in the childcare, and his didn't change that much. Not only that, he took up long distance cycling the week our baby was born and training for the New York Marathon perfect time. It was, yeah, So he was literally like running away and cycling away from us. And so there was a tension. And anyway, when when I would get upset that he was like not doing anything and I was doing most of the stuff. What

our daughter saw was not like gender inequality. She's not some feminist scholar. She saw me yelling and him like shrinking, and so she would jump in front of him and say, don't yell at daddy, and I thought, oh crap. And so that's the dynamic she saw and we that's what prompted me to sort of do this and to write the book and to go through intense they're up be we do intensive to is because I thought, oh, I'm

changing my daughter's personality. And it makes me sort of sad now because I think, like, gee, I wasn't even concerned that our marriage was falling into the toilet. It was more about we're ruining our kid. But look whatever gets you there, you know we we we took steps to improve after that and how to fight fair? So how do you not hate your husband after kids? What are was? What are son? Like? Please give me something tangible to hold onto? Okay? What I Okay? Fighting in

a healthy way number one? And you know, just one more thing about if if your children you know, see you disagree in a healthy way, as you've mentioned both of you've mentioned on the podcast, like, it is a good thing. And I just wanted to tell you before I go on that there was this great research at the University of West Virginia that I think about a lot, and they observed thirteen year olds, a bunch of them who um were watching their parents fight in both healthy

and unhealthy ways. And that's where all my issues come from. Yeah, Like and then they went back and it was a hundred and fifty seven teenagers when they were sixteen. They found that those kids were more likely, the ones that saw their parents disagree in a healthy way, more likely to stand up to peer pressure when offered alcohol or drugs. So I think about that all the time. I'm like, Okay, now that we're disagreeing in mostly a healthy way, this

is good modeling, behavioral modeling for her to follow. Like, so, so that makes me feel a little bit better, Like if if you know, then it isn't scary like in my family it was like simmering tension and then explosions. Well, that's not a healthy way to disagree, you know. And so she sees us we use the same therapy language that you guys used. Don't say no, say yes, and you know, talk about your feelings. So the best ways

that I have found to not have that hatred. And I really should have called the book How How to Love Your Husband after Kids, but it wouldn't have sold as well. Look at it like I don't have time to love him right now. So one is, don't expect him to read your mind. And this was my classic thing that I did. I really was doing that thing that Burnet Brown calls this the story I'm making up, which is I would make up a story for him like ha ha, I'm sitting on the couch when my

wife's doing all the work me. You know, he wasn't gloating, he just didn't know. And I would do this thing where I would hate prepare dinner and bang pats pots around, and it was like, what Just tell him how you feel, tell him what you need. And so one thing is just don't expect him to read your mind. Number two it's fight fairly use I describe the problem and not the person, not you're sitting on the couch, but I need some help, or there's there's crap on the floor,

can you pick it up? Describe the situation. I know you know all of this, and also describe how you feel, because I have found someone can't argue with how you feel. If you say I feel depressed that you forgot to pick up diapers, well they can't argue with that you feel depressed. It's kind of concrete, you know, So that

sort of heads off that like next argument. And another thing is paraphrasing, and that I learned from I I interviewed a couple of FBI crisis negotiators because I thought they would know how to calm someone down in three minutes. They do so. My friend Gary, who used to run the crisis negotiation unit of the FBI for thirty years, he said that everyone just wants to be heard, whether it's someone that's like holding up a bank or a

prison riot which he had to put down. He said, people want to be heard, so you paraphrase what they're trying to say to you. I hear you. Guys do it all the time on the podcast. Is like you repeat back what the person is saying in your own words. Has if I felt like tom my husband was hearing me, it immediately called me down, like it really did, and

and so that helps. And also saying thank you. There's this research from the University of Georgia that that's one of those habits that predict whether someone will stay married for a really long time is just saying thank you to each other. And it can be annoying when you're kind of in it and you're fighting or squabbling. You don't really necessarily want to say, like, oh, you know, thank you for um picking up the kid after school. But those little thank you's make a huge difference. I mean,

I could go on and on. I learned so much that I put into practice every day because it is something you have to practice, isn't it. Um. Another one that someone told me is a phrase that I use a lot is what does it cost you? And that is don't would do this thing where he would come home from a soccer game on the week and then he would take a shower for twenty minutes, and for some reason, that shower annoyed the crap out of me. I would be like, you know what I mean, I

take a military shower for what are you doing in there? Why? But then I thought like, but we're not giving ourselves that time. That's what I've realized too though. It's like, you know what, why can't I take a long shower, Jianna, That's exactly why, Like you default to resentment, but you could take a long shower too. Yeah, and that's and that's something Mike. You say to me, why can't because I have to do this and then the kids and whatever.

He's like, that's on you, and I'm like, you know what, I was like, crap, it is on me. So now I take a really long showers because he takes really long poops and I don't resent his poops anymore because I'm taking a really long shower. Yeah, and it's okay. And the more you do that the better. And like even you know, and I would I would ask myself, what does it cost me? Like here, I'm baking. I love to bake. My child is fine, she's playing with

legos or whatever. It's not costing me anything. I'm just annoyed. So I had to I have to ask myself all the time. And you're so right about the resentment, Like is it because you're jealous that you you're not giving yourself permission to do that too? Like I would do this thing where he would go out for a run or whatever, and I would think, oh, yeah, nice, and I thought I could go out for a run. I just choose not to. He's okay with the kid, he's not going to kill the kids, okay. But we put

so much pressure on ourselves. So that's the same thing where it's like I get resentment. I'm like, man, I'm resentful that you can sit there and have a twenty minute poop because I'm like, do not think about what maybe Joelian Jason's right now or what we have to do or the next step or maybe fully you know, forwarding the laundry or if it's like so, then I get resentful that maybe he's not thinking about those things. But it's maybe not and he might not be thinking

about those things. But that's okay, that's not how his brain works, but it's how my brain works. And so it's like, but do I really want him to think of things that I think? No, because then it would just be you know, super chaotic. We Yeah, we have a similar dynamic in that I cannot. I have a hard time with downtime, and I feel like I need to,

like you, I need to beat Jenna. I need to do something productive every second of the day, which is also it's called time contamination, and it pertains to women only where you get a spare twenty minutes and instead of like sitting down in the cup of tier doing anything that's a little seft care, you're like, I gotta go buy you know, sports equipment for the kids, or got to go pick up something the grocer, Like you can't. It gives me anxiety. It gives me anxiety witnessing that,

and that's my time is. Lunch has become my favorite meal of the day. He puts on his little his his his Beats headphones, he grabs his thing, brings his iPad. And for the longest time, I was so resentful of your lunch time, and I'm like, wow, a lunch time. Wouldn't that just be so great to have my own time for thirty five minutes, I sit in the office, I watched whatever show I'm watching at the moment, I eat my lunch. And the thing is is breakfast is

chaotic because you got the kids. Dinner is usually chaotic, and I'm usually the one cooking dinner, so we gotta feed the kids. I gotta cook dinner and and everything. So I'm like, lunch is my meal. I was like, this is my thirty or forty minutes every day. Don't bother me. And now Genna finally realizes if she comes by the office door like window and see that my friends on, She's like, oh, I'll come back. Yes, I'm

finally respecting it. But in the beginning at a really hard time, because I was like, oh, he just sits down and he doesn't even know, like what has to happen in the house, and I just spew all this hatred in my head. And then I was Then I finally realized it's the same thing with the poop, Like I am entitled to have my long shower, and I sit in the shower now and I'm just like, ah, this is amazing. But I still don't drink my tea in the morning. I can do a lot like that

really is restorative. Even if you grab ten minutes like of just time where you're not where your mind isn't going, it can really help throughout your day. Right, Yeah, Jancy, what do you see? So you mentioned kind of some things about you know, um asking what you need and not allowing basically telling him that so he doesn't have to read your mind. Is there anything that Tom's doing that he's changed that you've seen that's been helpful for

you and y'all's marriage. Um, yes, that's a good question, and you know, he he I. There's a couple of things. One is that he would just simply ask need a hand, Like I wish that. We're still at the point where I wish he would, um just get up and do what needs to be done. He's not quite there yet, but he says, if I say to you, do you need a hand? You know, tell me what to do, and I'll do it. Does that bother you? Though? Sorry, I don't want to interject with that, because sometimes that

bothers me that I have to ask. I understand that it's against the mind reading thing, but I'm like, why why? Why? Why do I have to ask? But if it's something right in front of your face, I just have such a hard time being like, why can't you see that's what I need you to do right now? And I have the hardest time with that. And I'm learning to be like, yes, I would love for you to help me while I'm carrying ten other things right now, to pick up the bag that I'm carrying. Would love that,

But it's why is that so? But I understand the mind reading, but I don't understand the man's brain. Sometimes you look through a pink lens, we look through a blue lens. We're just different species. Is that truly what it is? Might because I we're not taking my sprain. I think I think it is part of what it is. It's because sometimes those things will be right under my

nose and my brains just not there. Women, like you said, you guys have that time contamination that you talk about because your brains are just constantly going into doing ten million things at once. I truly think that women should be the CEOs and presidents of this world because we would probably be a much more efficient uh government and economy if that was the case. So it's just one of those things where we're just we're simplistic generally speaking, where it's I have one task at hand, to do

that task, Okay, onto the next one. Where scientifically, Janna, if she had to go do something in the office, it would take her twenty minutes just to walk fifty ft because she would everything she would walk by, she would have to Oh, I gotta do this, Oh I gotta do that, I gotta do this. On her way to the office to do whatever it is that I said, Hey, we got to meet the office to do this at

this time, and I still would't have Pete from that morning. Well, what what helped Tom a lot is when I explained the concept of behavioral modeling, and it's it's simply that you can say anything you want to kids, but what they what they act on, is what they see you do. See. So I was doing a lot of like Gold's rule, you know, all that like rhetoric that you do for our daughter. But what she saw was dad sitting on

the couch. And so I showed him some research and I said, this is what is happening right now, is she is forming expectations of how her mate is going to treat her when she grows up. So if you want her to eventually marry some guy who sits on his butt, then keep doing what you're doing. He didn't like that people are just putting myself in his shoes. I would have been right up off the couch right, like like you're already like picturing, like putting your hands

around the future husband's neck, right. And so she that worked for him like nothing else. And again it was because he's thinking of our child, not like, oh, your wife needs a hand, and again like it's kind of sad, but it did work because he was like every time he jumps up and helps me with the dishes or whatever, you know, she sees that and she forms an expectation of what she's going to have later. That was that

was life changing for both of us. So he and and it was almost like he was acting in a bad community theater play at first, like honey, do you new do you can I cook a little dinner with you know. But but after a while it became natural and this is now what she thinks as her new normal. So great. You know, do you have any regrets at all with anything that you've done parenting wise that you were like, man, I wish I could go back. Is

it the not yet? Is it screaming or is it you know, is there something that's really You kind of think back and you're like, oh, that kind of stings a little. Oh god, yes, I mean our fights got intense and I was so naive at the time. I hadn't done any research and I just didn't know. But you know, I write for like Oprah magazine. You think I'd know this crap, but I didn't. It was like, we're damaging her and we didn't know, and we would

we would do the classic thing. We would sit and watch we all three, you would watch Tree George and we would fight over her big toddler head and I would think, you know, she doesn't know what we're doing. She has no idea, and she did know, and like you know, babies brains they're measured. Um, I know you had an expert talking about this, but like they react to. They have a stress response to the tone of your voice.

Because I was thinking, our baby doesn't understand English. You know, we can fight, I could, she doesn't know the word dick head, and she was thinking I see now I am eating up with regret because that's what we do, right. We feel guilty and I'm thinking, like, why did we do it? Why didn't I treat him with respect? It's her father and another thing that I feel guilty about.

As I was doing the classic thing where if you thought the night before, at lunch or breakfast the next day, I would be like a little chilly with Tom, but super sweet to Sylvie, my daughter, so it would be like, yeah, okay, are you taking her to school or what? Like what's the deal? And then to her I would be like medius, okay, you know well, and I that that really bothers me that I did that, you know, but what can you do? Well,

here's here's the reason. Here's why I said that and asked you that is because we all wish we could maybe go back. I wish there was plenty of arguments that I wish we could go back and redo and have it in our room and not have the kids witness. But that's just the thing where Mom's we're doing our best and we're learning, and that's like the you know, that's the best we can do. So yes, and like and really they don't if if you want to, you know,

I've quitted Sylvie. I've remember we got her tickets to the circus in the front row. There was practice. She was practically riding an elephant at the circus. Right. She doesn't remember it at all. And I took at a second mortgage to get those circus tickets, and like every time I asked her about stuff like this, I'm like, oh, if you don't remember like the circus, then you maybe you don't remember us fighting. And I just try to like give myself a break, which is another thing, you know,

like that. That's another thing that threw a lot of therapy. You know. I remember when therapist said to me, when you're getting down on yourself, how do you talk to yourself? Like what do you call yourself? Or what do you say? And it's that self talking. I was I realized that not only was that not being nice, it wasn't being nice to me. She said like, well what do you call yourself? And again I'm from New Jersey, so I would say like, oh, I don't know. I'll say like, oh,

you shouldn't have done that, you you stupid bitch. And she's like, well you, uh huh, why would do that? Why would you do that? And you know, she even taught me this corny little thing that I do now when I'm feeling anxious. She said, hold your own hand, you know, remind yourself that you're on your own side. And you know I do that too. I try to not not. It's hard, though, isn't it. I mean, it's hard, don't don't you find like both of you, it's just it's hard not to look back. But but what can

you do? And you do a better job going forward? I you know, it's like what Oprah says, you know better, you do better now. I do know better since I researched all this stuff in the book, So I do better, you know. I have a question about another one of your books, Jancy, the one why is my mother getting a tattoo? And other questions I wish I never had an answer. So was that an actual question you had to answer? Mike, listen to this. We're all Thanksgiving and

my mother she's um Southern. She grew up in Alabama. She was a beauty queen mother and bell. She was the Azalea trail Aid of Mobile, Alabama. And she she wears pink table mit sweaters and she belongs to the Garden Club. Right, so we're all eating and she says, I have an announcement. I'm gonna get a tattoo. She was sixty eight at the time, So all of this, like did this thing where the fork is in midair when we're eating. We're like, what you just say? And

and I worked at Rolling Stone for many years. I don't have a tattoo. And and so she said, I want to Raven on my wrist. She went and got. I mean I supervised it because I'm like, oh, well, I'll write about this if nothing else. You know, my dad was horrified. And we went to a big tattoo parlor and we got she got a big black tattoo of a raven. It's maybe like three inches. And I said, why a raven. She's like, I just like Ravens. I'm not, it's not about ed grow and Poe. I just like Ravens.

I was like, all right, So now you know she's almost seventy eight, and she loves going to like Target and like reaching out with the credit cards so that people can see that big black raven poking out of her pink cable sweater rocking streak that I never knew about. It's still weird to me out a little bit, but um, but yeah, you never know what people are gonna do, right, Yeah,

And it's I'm interested. I was wondering, you know where that story was personal for you, because I mean that's something Janna and I are going to have to talk about with our kids. And it's interesting because we both have a lot of tattoos. I mean, I have a full sleeve that I've been working on, and so I know that it's inevitable the kids already noticing them. But I already feel myself not being a hypocrite, really, But so I have a brother that's fourteen years younger than

me and the same parents everything. He was just a nice little surprise in addition to the family. He's a freshman in college right now. He got his first tattoo actually with Janna and I. He came out to l a last year when he was eighteen. He already got a second one and even the part of me like, because we're so far apart, I feel like another parent almost. At the same time time, I kind of want to be like, hey, man, like, why don't you slow it

down a little bit? You're still young, you know. But here I am with all tatted up, and yeah, there's not much I can really say so, but I'm already anticipating that that, you know, interaction with my children where it's just like I can't really see anything. But I'm just gonna try to at least push them along to wait later on in their life so they know for sure. My goal is to get them to twenty six. Okay, twenty six. But when Mike, when did you have do

your very first tattoo? How old were you? I was in college. I was probably nineteen, okay nineteen. That's kind of when you know your own mind, right, I mean, looking back, was that the right was it? Was it

a design you still like or was it a good decision? Yeah, there's I don't have anything on me that I necessarily regret from that standpoint, from from the purpose or from getting them, but it's still still you grow, you you things change in your life, so to get something that's particular for one situation, especially if it's words, it's difficult to turn that into something else. So it's just one of those things that reading that title of that book

just kind of brought up from me. Where you know, we all have we're all going to be hypocrites at some point as parents, right, we're gonna say, hey, don't drink and tell you're this age, don't try we eat and tell you this that you know, any of that stuff, when really we might have done it way before that.

I still don't know how to frame it though. Have you Have you guys talked about how you're going to when they get older, how you're going to do something like drinking, because again, my daughter is going to be eleven in May, and I don't know how much to share. I'm now a't that like, I'm sure it seems so far off to the two of you, right, but like we have to get an alignment Tommy about what we're going to share, and I just don't know. And also, jes you ever had any drinks or drunks or any

you were like totally clean in high school? Right? But yes, the only reason is I truly believe is because my parents because well my mom, my mom was like, you want a wine cooler? And when I'm fifteen, and I was like sure, like I'll have a sip of it, so I didn't feel like I had to hide it, you know. And when I'm at my friend's house where my friends came over, it was a key basket and hey, if you're going to drink, you're gonna do it here

and you're not leaving, and everyone's staying. And at that time there wasn't any ubers or whatever, so everyone stayed at the house, but no one was getting drunk because it was just it was so cool with my mom, let us have a wine cooler. So for me, in my opinion, it's you know, I don't want them to fear it because then they're going to hide it. I want them. I want them to be able to be like, hey, if you're going to have a sip, you know, do

it with me and you can try it. But after that, like I'm not your buddy, buddy, Like we're not gonna sit here and have a drink. You're not gonna finish it. I'll give you a sip of it if you want to taste it, but you have to be responsible about it too, and will never we will never be that house where oh we can go over to the Carson's house and when we're sixteen and week are on all the drink there because the parents don't care. That ain't

never happen. No, no, no, no, But I just I still, you know, if if she wants to try a sip, I'm gonna let her have a sip and then I'm going to educate or like, hey, you know, I don't you know, she's definitely not going to have a glass of wine, you know, at the house. But at the same time, if she isn't a senior in high school, like I'm gonna let her have a glass of wine with me when she's a senior, because I know they're all probably getting they're eighteen years old. I know it's

not legal. But at the same time, I'm like, I didn't really drink in high school. I mean I didn't either, But you know, if they're going to my mom, like I had, I had a margarita with my mom and when I was a senior year when I was senior, like my graduation party had a margarita. Scandalous, scandalous, But my thing is like the vaping and stuff. But I don't know what the kids are going to get into in ten years. I don't know what's going to be

worse now. But right now, drugs are really big issue in middle school, which I'm like, middle school, I'm like, what, that's going to be really hard because I'm just like, don't touch it, don't do it. Don't you know that's not it's not good. I mean, either's drinking. But in that case, do you think you would be so drinking? You're right, it's so prevalent, it's in so many different it's all over the place, you know, with everyone. So you feel like to remove the taboo and make it

not some secretive, alluring thing. I would want to say, Yeah, I would. I think what I would want to say, And again, I have ten years to or fifty eleven, twelve years figure this out until she gets to that

fifteen sixteen range. But I'll be like, you know, I I would ask that you don't drink um when you're at a friend's party, if people are drinking, I would ask that you call me um because I'd love to you know, no, And also if you want me to come pick you up, because you feel uncomfortable, and if you're wanting to try a glass of wine, I'll give you one sip and you're probably gonna hate the taste of it. But because I remember at six sean I didn't like I didn't like the taste of it. My

mom gave it to me. But I'm not gonna I'm not gonna. I'm gonna tell her like you're not going to get in trouble. I want you to call me if the parties and they're drinking, but just know that you know, I don't know, I don't know. I feel like I'm gonna keep being a hypocrite. I have no idea. Let's just be honest with no clue what I'm gonna do. But I just don't want her to be scared of it, because you're gonna cross that bridge way before we do, so you tell us, And honestly, I just don't want.

I'm just what I don't want to say is don't ever touch that. Don't But again with drugs, I'm gonna say that, don't ever touch that. So that's why I feel like I'm being a hypocrite, because I'm like, I'm gonna say, don't ever touch drugs and then they're going to be like terrified of it, which is good. But then isn't that the same thing with alcohol. I don't know, I don't know. I don't know what the answer. You

didn't drink in high school really either? Right? Is it because you were, you know, an athlete and or just an interest to you or I just always want the secrets of everybody that didn't really do it too much? Both was well, it was a it was a triple threat. It was just wasn't that interested I it was because of sports. And then also my parents were kind of put the fear of God into me at the same time. But having said that, my parents also understood that I was a young kid and if the off chance I

did drink, call us. We will pick you up wherever you're at. Just don't ever drive home. So it's like they said, very firmly, like you're not twenty one, don't drink. But at the side of their mouth, it's like, but call us, call us if you need us, you know what I mean. So, yeah, but why weren't you interested? You said you weren't that interested. How come it didn't hold an appeal for you? Um? I don't know. I

really don't know. I don't know. I think it was just you see some people who act that way, and I just wasn't about that. I've always been more of a kind of calm, cool, collected type of person. Um. So yeah, I just I don't know. I just never really did. But let us know when you figure out. Chancey. Um, seriously, we appreciate you so much. You've got some amazing books out there. Where can our listeners um find you? Um My,

my website is just Chancey done dot net. Somebody's parked on calm so I have net Chancy done dot net and you know I'm on Instagram and so on and so forth. Okay, well you're the best, um, and everyone go get how to Not Hate your Husband after Kids. Amazing title, amazing book. Appreciate it so much, Chancey, Thanks Chancy, thanks for having me. Bye bye. Man. She was like, I love that she loved the podcast. I was gonna say she was actually a fan. That was awesome. She's

actually a fan, you know. I love during that whole conversation how she made the point to be like, well, I didn't want to title the book like how to Love your Husband After Kids? Because that's boring. I was like, yes, very good point. You're right, no one would buy that. It's true though the title like you really have to like really grab you, you know, because I probably wouldn't have bought that either. But how not to hate your husband after kids? Perfect? Tell me everything. No, that was

a lot of fun. I think there's a lot of good stuff in that book, and you know, looking forward to reading it and hopefully others do too. Yes, I agree, we should read it together. It is tough as a husband after kids. You do kind of feel in the way a lot of the time. We feel like You're like I don't feel like, um, I want to be helping, but I don't feel like I'm helping. I feel like I'm just causing problems. Question though for you, because this kind of came up during a tour the tour of

this past weekend. One of the couples that came on stage was like it, are you asking for help? Though? Are you? I mean, are you asking to help or no? Am I asking to help? Or am I just trying to help? The difference? Huh, Yeah, probably a little of both, but asking is probably going smoother, especially if I'm there on a weekday morning, oh man, because they've got it down.

They've got a science and dad's around. So it's like kids getting the weekend mode because dad's here, and so they're slower going around and I'm in the way in the kitchen. So I's got it. It's really that's when it's really ugly. But yes, I should ask more rather than just try because you don't know what is needed. Yes, I can concur to that. Okay, good, I think that's a I think that's a solid note that I also

learned because it's one guy that came on stage. He you know, he would go to work with then he'd come home and cut the grass. Now in his mind he's thinking, well, I'm cutting the grass, so I'm helping her out by cutting the grass. But maybe that's not what she really needs in that moment. Maybe she needs help because she's been home all day with the kids or needs a second to p by herself. So instead of going straight out to the grass, maybe he could come in and say, hey, how can I help you.

I know you've had the kids all day. I want to go cut the grass, but do you need a few minutes or can I help you do this. I don't know. I think that just goes a long way. We've gotten better at that. We didn't this morning, but no, we didn't. But everyone, I just got out in my smart food white Cheddar popcorn and I'm ready to hear this. Tell me more. Yeah, Easton's rubbing his hands. Yeah. No, we didn't handle it well this morning. I don't know

if we we know don't. I could have said things differently, but I did not. I did not raise my voice and get on my high horse. I tried to do the safe talk process. Men defensive, we typically accelerate things, can accelerate things because of our defensiveness or temperas or whatever. And so yes, I could have handled myself in a calmer manner, and I'm still trying. Mm hmm. I also felt like you were being passive. So here's the deal.

So I already answered a question. Can I see? Yes? Okay, So let me just lay out the scene for you and we can get perspective. And it's fine either way. So last night when we were going to bed, um, we're kind of planning out the day and jas has um my gym at nine in the morning, and Jolie usually goes to school around between eight and thirty. I

dropped off at eight. He's usually around eight thirty, and so I was like, okay, well, um, you know, I'll just get the kids or I'll take Jeweler to school in the morning and then I'll go to my gym with with Jason. And that was just kind of like okay, not a real big discussion, but just I did say that. So in the morning, Um, when I got up, I was just like Jolie. I was like, hey, Jolie, who do you or no, I said, I didn't say, I didn't ask her. I was like, hey, Daddy's gonna take

you to school. Mommy's going to pick you up. And then then he says, actually, Jolie, mommy is gonna take you to school and Dady's gonna pick you up. And but in the because um, that's what mommy said last night, And then I said, do you mind taking her? And then I can just take Jace to um to my gym, and he was like And how I received it was he was like, yeah, that's fine, but like his response

kind of made it seem like it wasn't fine. So I already know how to astricting that because there's something that I know I could have done better. Okay, let me ask you that. Let me just continue within story that. So I just felt like this really weird energy. So as I'm getting you know, Jace his blueberries, I say to him because I'm uncomfortable. In my head, I make up that he's annoyed that I asked him to take Joel. But in my head, I'm like, well, last week we

split duties. You took Jolie and I took or I took Julia school. You took Jace to my gym and I And in my head I'm like, well, he doesn't have anything going on this morning, so like we'll do the same thing we did last week. So like, go, team go. So I say, in a very nice place, I say, I mean, it's it's good right that you know you're you're taking Jolia to school and I'm taking Jason. I mean, because you know you don't have anything else

going on today. So I just figured, you know, teamwork. Yeah, And then I didn't get the response like ya, team work back, So I was like, did I do something wrong to upset you? And he's like then he got defensive and angry about well, yeah, like, you know, why not Originally in the moment is sometimes like you were passive and I was like, wait, how was I passive?

He's like you were passive when he made the comment about I didn't have anything to do, and I was like, oh no. I was like, I'm sorry you took it that way, and I kept saying I'm sorry you took it that way. I just was uncomfortable, and that's on me. I should have said, but I did end up saying like, did I you know, did I do something wrong to

upset you? And he got really upset and he still kept calling me passive, and in my mind, I'm like, there is a difference between passive and that was just I was just And then I did the whole safe talk thing that our therapist tells us to do. I said, I'm so sorry you felt like I was being passive.

The story I made up in my head was that you didn't want to take Jolie, so my uncomfortable et nous made me want to be like, well, I mean you're not doing anything, so it's all good, right, like teamwork. And then when you said no, then I asked you, is everything okay? And then clearly it wasn't okay because you responded with like being angry. And then it got even worse because he kept going and I'm like, Michael, I like again, I'm not saying I wasn't trying to.

I'm just blah blah blah blah blah. Well you said that you were going to take her in the morning. I'm like again, I'm so sorry. And he just kept going. And this is where sometimes I just want to like like wring your neck. But then I was like, you know what, never mind, I'll take to It's fine, I have time. And then he picks up Joeli and he goes, no, Jolie, no Jolie, mommy can't take you because she can't do uh what would you say? It was kind of crappy.

I'll let you say that one. No Jolie, mommy can't take you because because Daddy wants you. And oh my god, it's not what you said. You said, no Jolie because mommy can't like do you know two things at one or something like that, like mommy can't handle taking both of you. And it was a total job, and it was there was a job, and that was wrong with me.

I was really frustrated. Um, and it just yes, I could have had better control on my part for me, like, I understand, I hear you when you say the story I made of my head, and I can understand your logic behind it. It's just in that moment as soon as you after I had already agreed like yeah, I'll take Jolie, like it's not a big deal, and then you had to make another comment, you know, five ten minutes later, about well it's okay that you take your

right because you don't have anything going on. It just felt passive, like you're just trying to like justify me taking her when I had already said yeah, I'll take her. And then it was just like why is she taking a job? It felt like a job because I was like, why else would she be clarifying this, Why else would you feel the need to say something other than to be passive. Well, I get I'm sorry you took it

that way. I really just was uncomfortable. What was the you felt insulted by you've got nothing going on today? I felt that there's no it's more of just like, well that's how you got angry. We're like, yeah, what if I did want to do something. The more I work up it was. It was more about the fact that that felt so passive because I already agreed, like, yeah,

I'll take her. And then it's like to make a comment that felt passive, especially when you say something like, well, it's not like you have got anything going on this morning. But that's how I receive it when you talk about nothing going on. Yes, it was what you just asked, Mark, Yeah,

and I get that. I think that, like and I think I'm guilty of this too, sometimes where my wife would say something like that that is totally innocuous, but I take it as a slight and also I take it as in my mind, if I have nothing going on that day, I'm scheduling things in my head. Okay today I can do this, I do this, I can do this, so that when my wife says, you've got nothing going on today, I'm like, is my stuff not important?

She doesn't know any of that stuff that's in my head, you know, So like I do, I get my dander up to I get that. I see where that's coming from. Right, And I'm not saying either of you is a fault in any way. I totally just I could I would have also taken that the same way, even though Jane, I know you didn't mean anything by that. Yeah, I truly didn't, because I'm like, I know when I'm being passive, but I'm like, I can't I can keep saying I'm sorry that you felt like I was being passive. I

just felt uncomfortable. And then I was just like trying to be like, we're teamwork, we got this together. And then when I still didn't feel that same excitement, I was just like, what did I do wrong? And then when I asked you what I did wrong? It was just like a war. And then I was like, wait, why couldn't we communicate from a better place? And I continue to communicate from a good place, but you were So that's what's frustrating from me because I'm like, why

why does it have to go? Because I feel like lately it's been kind of like you're not communicating from a good place when we get to that part and I have to be the one to control my anger, but yet you've been able to have your anger the past few times, and it's frustrating. I hear you. Mark is like laughing right now. That was a very very pregnant. Pause. Um, yeah, I mean I don't really have an explanation for it. It's I mean, people, you know, you go in waves

emotionally about things. Sometimes you you know things better than others. But yeah, I just it's just practice. I gotta get better consistently, you know, talking from a better place. Uh huh what. I just it's just frustrating because we've you know, went to that couple's intensive and every instant since then that has you've had an a chance to you haven't when we've gotten into that heated argument, like you've gotten super different. So it's just it's just it's honestly, like

just being super honest. It's starting to like really frustrate me because it's like in my mind, I'm just like, well, this is so unfair. I you know, I'm like keeping my you know, doing what they're telling me to do, and then I keep wanting you to meet me halfway and do the same thing back. I was frustrated too, you know, and so I just it's just been the past few times that we've gotten to arguments, you haven't met me there, and then that's just I'm getting frustrated

for sure. Do you any methods Mike for like for that sort of thing. Because I've found myself I've had to really focus because I will lose my temper with the kids, and I really really really wanted to stop doing that, even though one of the kids really seems to um have that be her goal sometimes is for me to lose my temper. So I really really try.

And one thing I did is I put a note in my and I'm not recommending this, everybody is different, but I put a note in my phone and said November six, because I lost it on November six, and and so now whenever I feel it's starting to rage up inside of me, I think November six, I gotta keep that as the date, you know. I I don't want to start that time or over again. I've made

it this far. And then I just breathe, and I just try not to give a crap, which is not easy to do when you're feeling disrespected, when you feel like a terrible parent, when you feel like your kids are just out of control. It's really hard to keep that. But I really try to focus on November six, which by the way, is now February. Because I had to restart the timer, I love that though. I think that's such a and I try to keep my manter in my head is d GAFF. That's my mantra in my head.

I keep saying d dcaf dcaf DCAFF, which stands for it don't give an F. And I'd really try to focus on that. That's good for me. It's similar in the sense of just I have to get out of the conversation on the earlier end done the later. So I think, like today, you know. Yeah, her initially asking me kind of caught me off guard because kind of like you Mark, I'm in my head, I'm like, okay, I'm I'm getting up early. I'm going to get the kids in the morning, you know, I told you, and

I'll to get Jace, okay. But she said she's taking them to school in my gym. So in my head, it's like, all right, once a thirty hits like, I'm good, I can you know my work out, I'm gonna start laundry. We're just on the road for four days, like I started in my head, just planning things I'm probably gonna do at this time. And then so yeah, my heasit tation when she first asked me, it's just like, yeah, okay,

sure it's something you said, but yeah, no problem. And then that when she said the thing around you know, it's not like you had anything else going on, and then the third thing of it does it doesn't matter? And then the third thing of like, what's wrong? Are you mad at me? It's like I didn't say anything at those previous moments, even though maybe the very from the very first time she asked me, I had like

a small inkling inclination of a feeling. I was like, okay, I felt that, okay, I don't need to say anything about this right now. Let me just like sit on this and swall. I'm good. It's just for those reasons. And then when the next thing came up that felt passive, I had some more and I reacted a little bit, but I didn't really react react yet. And then finally it's like she doesn't let it go, then has to say, well,

what's wrong with you? Like did I do something? And then I'm like, I'm trying to not react to any of this and come back to you. In my head, I'm like, I'll come back to you later on. But then I just she always it seemed like she just had something else to like pull that to be like, tell me what's going on? And I wasn't ready yet. But I also wasn't ready to say, look, i'm having these feelings. I'd really like to come to you later.

I was just like receiving them and letting them be at that moment, and then I just kinda once another thing was said or put or tugged at, I was just like, then I got defensive. That's interesting. I think that's interesting for anybody in a relationship. If you're getting that energy from your partner, what's the right thing to do. Is it to pursue it and say what's wrong witht's talk this out? Or is it to wait it out because it's probably stupid and it'll go away in an hour.

And I'm not sure what the right answer is there, because even Gene will get on me because she'll be like, Mike, just stop because I'll keep going times And so that's how I felt beforehand. But then just tell me to stop, right, But that's all I'm saying, and I'm still trying to

figure it out. It's not even it's not during it's like when you're when you're asking what's wrong or whatever I don't want to be like Janna just stop and you're like, wait, I'm just asking you questions like what, but you don't have the capacity to say, like, I don't have I have a feeling. I just let me work through it. I'm getting there. It's just hard when it's like and I think market's it depends on the

relationship really. I think you know, some people were at the time you're being crap, you know, like it's just the sensitivity that day, maybe right, because there have been times that you said something I think you've read my energy and you haven't done anything and I've come to you or was like his energy says and then I walked away because I'm like I didn't care, but I felt like I hurt him and somehow, So that's why I kept kind of going like it would we cool,

like teamwork were good, everything all right, like, and so because I didn't want to feel like that I like upset him or hurt him or you know, or that he was mad at me because I asked him to take Joli instead. Right, interesting, So it's just one of those things I think, at least for our relationship to keep in mind where it's you know, you start to learn your partner enough to kind of you feel their

their energy. If you start to pull on that string too much, it you'll cause a bigger issue than there actually is. I mean, I think next time, you know. Obviously, the most ideal thing I could have done is, hey, I know you. I know I said last night that I would take Jolie, but do you mind taking And you know I said that, but not in that long form. I said it like, hey, do you mind taking Jolie?

But I think if I acknowledge, like, hey, I said this, but do you mind, like did you have anything else planned? Like to be conscious of what he said? And so if in a perfect world I could have said that, but I still don't think it needed the like I didn't deserve the like no, And in the perfect world, I could have said, hey, uh, I'm having these feelings

come up after you ask me to take Jolie. You know it's not really anything, which also in this moment though, I'll be fearful of because I feel like that would validate your fear of you bothering me with asking me to take Jolie. Would you know? I never care, That's the thing. I never care we split those duties. Yeah, I never care if I have both kids. I never care if I have one kid. I never have Like, I never complained about that. I think you can even

back me up on that. I never complain about having the kids won both whatever, I just do it. So I think, you know, it would have been hard in this moment, in this morning to navigate it a little bit better. But it's a learning thing and it's one of those things. It's like, all right, this happened. Ultimately, I am sorry for escalating it more than it had to be for sure, but uh, I mean that's part of our work and my work. M hm boom boom, wind down. Well this is this is this. I think

this is good. I think that I need a minute might be something in the future, although I'm not sure. Sometimes you say I need a minute, that just creates more questions. But um, but that might be something to try. I think I might try it myself. I do that I need a minute. I know that I'm a I'm a very cool, calm collected guy, but I can lose

my temp uh there. You know, there's there's there's times where, uh my wife will asked me to do you know, I was thinking about the like, if you had nothing going on today, uh something my wife will do sometimes that She'll be like, hey, could you would you mind taking out the garbage? And I said yes, and then she goes so that our house doesn't just fill up with garbage and become a complete garbage And then I I interpret that is you're a You're a filthy animal person.

It doesn't know how to do anything unless I tell you you. But she was just I mean, you know, she just says that stuff and I try not to react, but sometimes I have to go. I've been awake for many hours, I'm very tired. I might not react to the way a normal human should. So I'm going to take a minute on this and take out the garbage and everything will be fine. And uh and yeah, everything, everything's good. My wife is very happy at home. Well

you can just tell it next time, Alison. You're really ruining my plans of creating this place as a dump and now this is messing it all up. So thanks. I have design plans for this house too. It gets shot down all the time, trash everywhere. Sorry, that's an investment that garbage can tip of the day. Take a minute, guys. I don't know if I'm going to be on the next episode, but either way, Mike has a very special guest. I'm gonna hopefully be in it, but I would be filming.

So it'll be a dad day. Wow, because we had mom January and then to be you know, we have a dad day in March. You get a day. It sounds about right. But hopefully I'll be able to like say something. I think we're taking our gear with us, so maybe we can just do a little pre interview. You can with me if you want, if you know, it's just like when we get nine months, you know, to do their thing and Dad's if we get sick,

we get like two hours. I don't want to talk about it, Okay, I don't want to talk about it, all right. I love you guys, See you later.