A Friendly Break Up

heard it was like seventy degrees and then snow. It was crazy. It was not fun. Um My random thought of the day is it's so annoying when your phone doesn't charge overnight. Because now I'm like screwed this entire day. Was it actually plugged in? He was, But the light switch like sometimes it's turned off, which is connected to the thing that's like one of my biggest pet Pee's light switches that are connected to I hate him. It

was crazy because now I'm screwed. Like now I just can't get like good, you know, I'm like I'm gonna be reading it in a little bit and then have to use it and yeah, because I can't just leave it there for six hours to charge or however long it's gonna take. Ah, that's my rooins for the day. Your hair looks good. Thank you like it. It's long, it's back too long. I feel like myself again. So like, cancoon l a tell us something, give us something good? Oh?

Do you want the highs or the lows? High? Um? Mark would go with lows? Um highs? What was the highs? Um? I feel like I heard a lot of till already. Well, I mean, yeah, um the highs were. It was really fun to make some good memories with the kids. Like all in all, they had a lot of fun, and like all in all they had like they just looked happy. That good. I think King Koons stressed everybody out just because the travel getting there was not how we thought

it was going to be. Um that traveled, Like traveling with kids in general is sucky. Yeah, and then traveling and then having like a long layover, like long like three and a half four hour layover is not fun either. And then you know they had woken up like three thirty in the morning, so it was just a very long day. And then poor Jason, my sweet little JS, like got this tick from traveling, So it started with traveling. So what he would do is like, so he's got SPD,

which we took him the doctors and she confirmed. She's like, you know, you can take into a specialist. Like a lot of kids can outgrow it, but with SPD, it's a sensory processing disorder. My thing, Like I've done so much research on it. They're saying it's there's an a lot of kids that have SPD have autism. So what her main not concerned earn because you know whatever, but like she's just like, let's check off the autism off

the list first. And so she was doing like a few things in the office with him, and she's just like, I just don't think he's even like near the spectrum because you know, he's so like engaging and cuddly and like wants to share, and like she's like, I just think he just has SPD. So she's like, you can do these like techniques and tricks and you can bring him to a specialist. And I was like, well, let's let me just like keep doing what I'm doing because

it seems to be working. Um, but like for example, like when he puts on a shirt and like there's this one texture of this Zara sweat trip that he has that's a little like it's up soft, it's like a little rougher it. It's it's like, you know, like

those recycled water bottles like feel sweat shirts. I wouldn't want to wear an I don't either, but like you know, he's he's when he when he feels that, he goes he goes like this with his shoulders and he like shrugs his shoulders and he's like, I don't like the you don't like how feel, and he freaks out. I'm like, okay, let's take it off. All good. But now I'm like before I give him a shirt, I'm like, hey, Buddy Field, this do you like this? Can we put this on you?

And then like but if there's a tag, I have to immediately cut off the tag because like that bothers him. So he started shrugging his shoulders because he wanted to see and if the shirt doesn't fit him, like he'll go like too big, too big. And I'm like, baby, it's a three T like it fits you perfectly. But I'm like all right, so I go back down to like a two tea to like something that was like

more like snug on him. That feels like more like comfort because they say like again kids with SPD have really bad or high anxiety, so um, just to calm them down, you know, I put my hands like now on his shoulder just to like kind of like you know, almost like my weighted blankets. That's gonna ask so um he started shrugging like that, but it would would only just to be his like fit, like to see if it fits him, and then it wouldn't. He wouldn't like

continue on doing it. So the next day in King Kon, I started noticing him like shrugging his shoulders but like every two seconds, and I was like, hey, Ian, like clock that look at that, and he's like, yeah, I noticed it too. Um He's like I saw him do it actually in the air porestrisk Oh I didn't see that. So it's like again like anxiety or whatever that comes up for him. But I mean he did it, so I mean it was like two seven and I was just like, oh my gosh. And that's when I was like,

is you know, like does he need to go? Like do I have to take him somewhere? But then you said that someone. Yeah, so Ammy had like a blinking tick. She blinked all the time. Um. And I think she was four or so because I think I remember the pediatrician saying, if it's just like a like an anxious thing or you know whatever, like a coping or whatever, usually it clears by six. I want to say it was the number. I could be wrong, but there was like an age that he's like, so just wait it out.

You don't have to call it out, just like kind of let it be. And it was about that time that it just kind of stopped interesting. So I think I saw it in somewhat anxious time. She's not really an anxious child though, but it would be kind of like stressful times or tired or whatever. And then she had another friend that had that did the same thing. So I mean, I think it's more common than you. Yeah,

because I was I started lynn. I looked into it because if people are like, hey, that's what my son does, and he has tourettes, so I'm like, okay, like I'm gonna, you know, kind of keep an eye on it. Um. But then I then I and I are talking and I was like, well, do you have any ticks? I'm like, I have a tick. I was like if you ever noticed my tick? Like and so it's and I guess he had one too. He used to scrunch his nose.

Oh I did that when I was sugar, and he's like I had to physically be like stop because it just like I would do it all the time. And then like same with mine, like you know mine, but like I like scratched my nose and left my eyes up. But it's like I do it when I'm stressed. It only comes when I'm like super stressed. And then like when I'm not, I'm like, okay, I can control it, but it's just like this weird like yeah. But then I but I did start crying though in kin Kung

because I was like how did I mess? You know, I'm like it's I was like so stressed and he probably felt my stress and I'm a bad mom and like you know, like but we just go straight to like it's my fault and like my kid is having now he now has this syndrome or tick thing because I was yelling at everybody the airport because I was so stressed. My stress then went on like my kids, So has it slowed down or is he still doing it?

So now it's just his right one. Now he'll just kind of like right shoulder ticket and I just, I mean everything, I got it again. I read it was like, don't call attention to it. When I do see him, I just like squeeze him. I give him like a like a good big hug. But um, it has slowed down. Yeah, I feel like it'll go through kind of seasons in a way. I remember that with Ammy, Like we've only never had one, so this is like that what was I haven't noticed it on any of the other kids,

but there might not be as obvious. I mean, the blinking was so obvious. Shrugging is so obvious, you know. So I can remember there was like times where she did it all the time and times I was like, oh, she's not really doing it, you know. So it kind of comes and goes to I feel like, yeah, I know. It just it just made me feel bad because I'm like, you know, you know, and then I start to think, I'm like, you don't want anything, so I kinn't want

kids to make fun of him. Yeah, So then I started to get sad about that, and I'm like, I don't know which also speaking of Jay's, He's got that thing on his head, the subacious nevus um and I was looking. So he needs to get it removed because it could turn into skin cancer. So I have it scheduled to do it, but he can't eat or drink

past midnight. His surgery is not till ten. So I've been talking to my ex to be like when he wants water or his bar, like he loves those little cliff bars, like in the morning, like he's hungry, like he's nothing. I'm like, he's not going to understand that, Like he can't have this. Can you reschedule it for earlier? I I could, I could actually actually I should ask

for that. I would um. But if not, I'm almost thinking like it doesn't hurt to wait, it just hurts it like he has it for a little long long. I'm almost thinking like if I can't reschedule, I'm like I might just do it like Jolie's age, I can be like, hey, babe, like you can't or you'll throw up. I mean all my kids when they had Kayden had a mole removed, Amy had tubes. They were all really early, like we woke them up. They went in their pajamas

and we got there. I'm gonna call on us because I just I'm like I told my X, I was like, I just don't want that for him because he's not going to understand. And I can't, Like as a I feel like selfishly as a mom, like I'm like, okay, if if I can, he doesn't, it doesn't have to be done right now. Like I have no kids that get it done when they're like twelve, but like I just like I can't. I can't handle seeing my kid upset. Yeah, I mean, I mean I get it. I think that's tough.

I mean, that's for sure tough. And if it's okay to wait, I don't see why not. But okay, Kin was fun. He was just like it was is really windy in Cancun, and so again for a sensory kid, it was like that was his worst nightmare and my worst nightmare. And it was like, you know, I definitely put my stress because I can't. It's hard for me to communicate to everyone around me that like I need a break, But I'm like, who can I ask for a break. It's not Ian's kid, you know what I mean.

So it was like how did that? How did that? How does that work? Well? No, it's it's hard. And that's like where I was like, it just was like, you know, he's got his kid, I've got it. Was it was the first time. It was like the first like of course it was going to be um stressful in certain situations, but I mean, bless him, Like he's just like, what do you, like, how can I help you? Like I I want to help, and I'm like, but for me, it's hard to ask when it's like, Jason,

isn't your son? Jason like word like it's it was if you were my ex, and my ex wold no, like just to give me a break or like he'll

take him or whatever. But it's like, you're not going to come take j is for me when he's screaming crying, like he's obviously gonna want mom or his dad, right, So it's like but then I'm like I need a break because I'm exhausted because I've dealt with him now for the last two days from like the plane and now he's like screaming crying because it's windy out yeah you know, So it's like it puts and I was

like telling our therapist this amy. I was just like, it's just so hard to ask when I'm like, it's not because the end of the day, he's gonna go to his kid. I'm gonna go to my two kids. And that's one of your things what to ask for help. It's so hard because I want can't you say that I need a break from this kid? You know. The problem though, is that he really just wants you, so

you just have to go away, right. That's the hard part because again, if my ex was there, that's and that's where like that and that's where it's like I missed, like my family got it. It's like I don't miss like if someone told me, they're like because I hadn't you know, I struggled with obviously, I cried before I left.

It was it's more just like the family dynamic of being able to help and being able to like that is a huge piece of that because if he was Mike was there, like he had got him or whatever and helped and like and I know in time like hopefully like the blended family, like who knows, like if we right so well And also it's kind of like you're still a single mom, yeah, but you have a boyfriend who has a kid. It's tricky. I've been wondering how that works because that would be hard. Yeah, but

it's hard. Don't take time. And I just I would love to like see, like I'd love to like talk to like someone because I don't really know anyone in that situation or like how they deal with it or how they like, you know. And and for me, I was just like, it just feels so separate and like not like. And I know again like maybe in time, if we were to like ever really to become like and it became you know, more serious or whatever, like

it would feel different. But and maybe it was just the first time, but it just felt like it made me miss like my family right quote unquote right because it's different. It's very different. Yeah, And I'm like, is it always going to feel this way? Um? So one of the days and then I think too, was like the weather. It was ter it was so bad, it was like cold and like, and then there was like one nice day and I was just of course, this

is what I do. I like and we're trying to stop the process and therapy, but I like build and then I explode and um, and then you know, and then it's regretting, I'm sorry and whatever, and she's like, you gotta somewhere in there like asked for what you need or like. So I'm just like, it would be really nice, like when I bring up Ja's for his nap, because I'm like, you know, I gotta go to the naps and then I'm away for two It's like I would like to also enjoy this one beautiful day of sun,

right you know. And he was just like, well, how about like you go up there right now and then I'll come like re leave you in an hour. And I was just like, yeah, that'd be great. So but it was hard. Anyways, we will get back to that. We'll talk about the rest of the trip. But we have um Aaron in the waiting room, and UM very timely, very excited to get her on. But first she wrote

a book, by the way, her name is Aaron Falconer. Um. It's called How to Break Up with Your Friends, which, again interesting timing, but I will let's take a break and then we'll get her on. Hi. Hi, Hi, Oh my gosh, you're so like good energy, good like maybe it's the yellow but like you just look happy. Oh. Thanks I didn't know if this was too bright for today. But also I'm a little tired, so I was like, it's like when we put on red lipstick when we

have no makeup on or haven't showered. But it's like, ye, do I do a pop of bread or the yellow? I couldn't do both, so that that is true. You have to It's like pick one or the other. Um, no, you look great. It's so funny because I feel like this is such like um god timing with things like having you on because I just went through something that actually I told Ian aboutlast night. I started crying and

because I was just like talking about it. But it was about breaking up with a friend, and so when I looked at the rundown, I was like, you guys, I was like, this is like insane. But now you're on the podcast, so very good. You manifested the answers

to your problems. I did, um, and what we've kind of talked about, like we've just I don't know, it almost feels like when we get older, it's like we have like I don't know, when I was younger, I just kind of kept friends around even when they were like not good right, right, But it's like as you get older, it almost feels like it's like I don't have time for this, or it's not serving me, or

it's you know whatever. Yeah, well, I mean I think the thing is is like the big problem is that we the reason we keep friends around a lot longer than we should. Well Number one is we don't really think of this group of relationships in the way with think of like romantic partnerships or family relationships, which you know they require work and you know they're hard, but

they're great. We just think of friendships is something that is like a category of relationships that are like nice to have and kind of should give, give, give, and if they're not, we just kind of like look the

other way. Um, but that's a real missed opportunity, because any relationship worth anything is worth the work and and the assessment, and just like taking inventory and stock of the people in your life is is really helpful because we've got all of these energies in our worlds that we're not necessarily paying attention to, but they're either draining or giving energy, and so you want to like take an audit of the people in your world and say

what relationships are bringing the energy and what are either just like I'm numb too, or they're taking energy, and then be kind of intentional about moving more people into your world who are bringing energy and less that are like no more new or taking. Do you have an example that kind of inspired you to write this book. Yeah. So I was sitting waiting for my friend um, who on paper I would have said was one of my

best friends in the world. You know, if somebody said, oh, you know so and so, I'd be like, she's like my best friend. Uh. And I was sitting waiting for her, and she she lives on the east side of Los Angeles. I live on the west side, and so it's always like a huge kind of commute and to meet each other, and without fail, she is like thirty minutes like every

single time. And what I realized as I was sitting waiting for her for like the you know, twenty millionth time, was that I had built up all of these kind of like frustrations and irritations with her, and so over time this kind of chasm had grown between us where I realized that I was like, she she kept wanting to meet and you know, hang out, and I was like putting greater and greater distance between the times we were meeting and um and and I had this epiphany

when I was sitting there, and I was just like, I, I are we good friends. I don't even know for good friends anymore, Like we're kind of going through the motions. But again, there's like such distance between each time we see each other. I'm irritated every time she shows up late and then spends ten minutes, you know, telling me why she was late and didda, and like I don't you know, I don't now have wasted more time. And so it was kind of out of that. But then

I was like, h okay, this is odd. And then I started looking at all of my friendships and the kind of biggest light bulb went off for me when I was like, I've never done this before, and this is weird because we are a culture that is obsessed with information, right, Like we know every calorie we're eating, every grandma fat, grandma protein. We wear watches to tell us every step we're taking, like need to track, you know, midnight steps to the bathroom to take a pee, Like

don't want to miss a step. Marie Condo has taught us to like hold up a chair or a sweater and say does this bring me joy? And yet the people in our lives, like the people you know, like the most important thing, um, just never really considered like they're kind of they're a lot of them legacy friendships. And it's like obviously people that are involved interested in self growth or you know, evolving, you're going to change

over time. And so the idea that you wouldn't check in and see where the other those relations if those relationships have evolved with you or not, is is a really missed opportunity, right because a lot of times not even if somebody's gone in uh, it's not necessarily a bad direction and you're going in a good direction. They're just different directions, right, um. And so you need to be checking in and saying, hm hmm, you know, does this still serve me in this relationship? And do I

still of it? And um, you know, oftentimes the answer that question is not really you know. And so the book is not necessarily about going through your contact list with a machete and just cutting people out of your life. Yeah, yeah, exactly so, but it is about having like an awareness and a sense of the energy is really operating in your world, and I think we need that more now than ever. And if we're really intentional with this group of people, your friends, I think you create a really

amazing um support system. You have the opportunity to really feel seen, to really take foster positive energy that then you take out into the rest of your world and the rest of your relationships. And I think there's like an amazing kind of domino effect. But right now we're just kind of dialing things in unless some major problem comes up, and then often it's too late. M hm.

The legacy friendship isn't interesting because I was talking with her friend the other day at the nail salon and she was like, she basically went on a vacation with someone that she has always said her entire life was my best friend. You know, She's like, it was just we have such a past legacy friendship. But she's like she's like I almost sat there and was like, would I be friends with this person today if I met

them today? And it's just so interesting, and you know, I I, you know, we all have like those friends from our past and because we have grown and evolve so much when you're not around them, and then you get back together with them. It is that kind of like would would I want to hang out with you today? Right? Yeah? But it's like, but I've always called you my best friends,

so I guess you're my best friend, you know. And what I always say is like length of time of a relationship is not a strong enough motivation to stay in it. Um. You know, it's great. And if you some of those legacy friendships, if you're in contact with them, if you are on the same page, even if you're not seeing them all the time, but when you do connect, it brings up a great sense of a step in nostalgia or joy or you know whatever, then great. You know.

It's not that you necessarily have to see these people all, you know, all the time. But if you if you are in a situation where you're like, uh, like I don't see any common ground here or um, it's just we're in two different spaces to really connect, then you

know there's something to talk about. And look, there's a there's a natural There can be a natural kind of like you just kind of drift apart, and that's fine, you know, because the expectation or the understanding is kind of unspoken, but it is the same you are on kind of the same it's subconscious, but you're kind of

just drifting in different directions. The problem is, I think we all have, um, you know, the these friendships that there may be from a different place in space and time, and you would be happy to let something drift out, but they keep trying to age you. And that's where the expectation or you know, hang out or you know, talk on the phone, and you're like putting them off or or feeling irritated by the request, and so they're the expectation isn't the same. And that's when I think

you kind of have to do something about it. Because often those relationships were really good, really formative, really you know, and really speak to a specific time of who you were, and that's a great memory. But if we let it drag out, um, and then again we have these built up kind of resentiments or irritations were guilt because we're

not wanting to hang out with that person. That becomes the dominating memory, you know, and the dominating tech away from the relationship, dominating kind of emotion as opposed to like it's you know, if you if you kind of ended or separate consciously from this person, then the good memory is still and the good emotions are still the dominating kind of force in your world, and that's what

you that's where you want to be. M h. I'm curious, Cat, because you had spoken about your kind of um friendship that is m hm do you does you? Does it? Like? Where are you on it? Like is it something where it's like you want to reach out again? Is it something where it's like you want to fix the relationship because it has it was a it was like a legacy friendship for sure. It's hard because there was a little bit of a natural Like you said, there was kind of the natural um you know, we'd see each

other every couple of months or whatever. But then there was like one thing that did happen, and so, like you said, that's our memory at this point. Our memory is that I got upset about something to me, she didn't respond well, and it just kind of then no one ever, like we're not speaking to each other now.

So it's kind of like I wish it could have I wish we could have handled it before then, I guess um, because at that point then the bond isn't strong enough to to probably even do the work to resolve this thing because of what are you resolving back to a place where you kind of want to drift away anyways. Yeah, there's a lot of resolved energy around that, you know, a lot of unresolved feelings, right, and it's hard.

It's hard when you do grow up, and it's like, you know, in this relationship, I feel like in a lot of relationships, not just this one. I feel like, sometimes I know what I need to do to make it better, whether it was my fault or not. I'll say I'm sorry. But now it's like I've gotten to an age where I'm like, I don't want to just go say I'm sorry. I want her to say I'm sorry, you know. So I think I'm just at a point where I'm just like, you know, it doesn't really serve

and it may not serve her either, you know. I mean that's fine. That's the thing. We we create these narratives in our head, like if something's not serving us, and instead of doing something about it, like oh, I can't do this, it'll be too upsetting. She was going through something in her life, you know, it's better maybe not to say something. We can just drift apart dada, but who knows that it just falls narratives you're creating.

She On the other flip side of that, there also could be a sense of relief that this is over, you know what I mean, or that you're going in different directions. So I think the assumptions we make are kind of like fear based because we actually don't want

to take the action. And when I was like writing, when I was like starting to think about this idea for the book, something, I'm a therapist, and something really dawned on me that you know, in the world of kind of classic therapy, there's individual therapy, there's couple therapy, there's family therapy, but there's no such thing really as

friendship therapy. And I'm not suggesting friend couples run out and go see therapy, but what that means to me is that out there in the zeitgeist, there is no kind of acceptable, agreed upon language for navigating conflict in these relationships. There's no blueprint how to get into new ones, how to get out of old ones, and and so as a result of that, we often do nothing because

we just don't have the practice or the language. And it feels almost overtly dramatic to end something when there's not a big drama to end it right there feels like, oh, that's because nobody ever does that. And and so I think it's important to have these conversations about like even though it feels awkward up front, um and and it's funny. And one part of the book, I literally have conversation

starters based on like different scenarios. And as I was writing, and I was like, oh my god, this is this almost feels ridiculous. And then I but when I thought about it, I was like, it's not though, because nobody ever says these things. And it's like the starting of the conversation that's the hardest. Once you get into it, then you whatever your personal situation just kind of comes letting out. But it's like, and why is this so hard? Because there's no blueprint of how to do this in

these this category of relationships. And I think that's why it's challenging. And I also think, you know, there's there's so there's one chapter. There's ten chapters in the book. There's one on how to break up with your friends. There's nine on the importance of really fostering great connection in these relationships and how to do how to do that and how to be better even in your relationships

that are you feel warmly about. And um, so I think that's also the important part because for example, one of the one of the things we need to work on is self advocating. And so it's like, just like what you were saying about the apology, the feeling confident or feeling like it's fine and um, all right to say, hey, listen, I'm not going to apologize for something. I'm the first person to apologize for something when I'm wrong, and I reflect on these things and I honestly trying to assess

what I'm wrong. But I've just got to be clear with you I'm not I'm not going to apologize when it's not when I don't feel it fault. And it's necessary. It's a requirement of this friendship for you to take ownership on what I consider your bad behavior if we're going to move forward together. This is just a requirement of what any relationship takes the needs. Right, So the practicing of advocating for yourself and operating from a place of truth within these relationships, I think is so key

to number one. Just you know, fostering like really important strong friendships, and number two so that you don't get to a place where you need to break up right literally like couples therapy. Like it's like literally is you know? I was being It's funny. I was being interviewed by um Maria Manonos the other day love her literally the absolute best, and she she's kind of the interview was winding out and she's like, Okay, Aaron, Aaron, I have

a really good friend. And she's like, over the past two years, we've made plans like ten times, concrete plants like date time, the whole you know, location, the whole thing. Excitedly, Um, both of us were engaged in sending up these plants, and the last ten times, either the night before or the morning of, the friend is send a text counseling and she's like, look, look she holds up her phone. I kind of go oh, yeah, huh, and she's like, what do I do with this friend? And I'm like, Maria,

I've got news for you. You're not in a friendship with this person. You're in some kind of weird relationship, but this is not a friend. This person is not committed to this relationship. She's canceling ten ten times in I said, let me, let let's look at another way. If this was a guy you were dating and he and she does, he'd be done after the second one, probably the first one. And I was like, exactly, because we understand collectively societially, we understand what we will take

what we won't in these relationships. And yet, for friends, uncle, how many times we're going to let this go on the twenty? What's the number that you would be like? And it's not about Marie, it's about up. It's about everybody, because we just don't have these expectations. I mean, at a certain point it would get ridiculous. And she called it friend up. But why take it to that. It doesn't need to go to ten times, you know what

I mean? If you can just kind of say what we mean and okay, this is you've canceled three times? What's up? Is there a problem? I don't know about what's going on? Is that you know whatever? But just like addressing things as they come up. I think it's really important, but we're just not in the habit of doing that in these relationships. Yeah. Um, it's kind of

like what I did with Sarah. Remember how like I felt like I was always inviting her and I was like, I feel like I'm the only one like and it's like you're always saying no. So it's like I want to keep asking, but at the same time, and then then it's like then you have a conversation. It's like then you can hear what they're going through, and that's a lot or communication. Yeah, communication is yeah, key, yeah.

And the same thing with like my legacy friend. You know, I was just like when we don't I know, we don't see each other a lot, No, we don't talk a lot, but like when there's no communication and I don't know what's going on, I'm like, I don't, like I've never liked just surface level friendships. So it's like and then you know, you find out that her mom was really sick or and so so it's like, okay, like I'm like, but like, let me in if we're still like doing this, but I think my ad no, No.

It just leaves you guessing, and then you're you're creating a story of what could be happening and why. You know, we're taking it personally because it feels deeply personal. Somebody's not responding to But a lot of times, you know, it's not like using your example of you know, her mother is sick, she's tending. You know, it's obviously a situation of great gravity and stress for her. Um, but you can see how they're not communicating all of a sudden.

Now that's a problem. So I'm probably about to sound like a hypocrite here, but I'll explain more why I feel that way. But when someone breaks up with a friend but yet they're still friends, the other friends still friends with a friend, right, So like like if there's three of you, Well, so I'll just I'm gonna do like two different examples and then you can get to

where I'm like the hypocrite part. So I'm calling myself out. Um, So I was friends with her friend that she has now, UM, I guess essentially broken up with right now through her So like I met her through her, right, Um, I don't and I know I I know she's going through some like life changes right now. So I've and we've kind of on the same life changes and so, um I've met up with her a few times, like to

kind of touch base and whatever. But I asked her if it was okay, um, but like moving forward, like what does that look like for because on the flip side, I just got really upset about a friend that was hanging out with my ex husband and didn't tell me, and when I went to my therapist, and I will say that was not what actually made me the most upset, but it was still like I would have loved to have found out from you and not from somebody else telling me, and that felt and I was like and

then I told my therapist and I was like why, Like why do I care? Like who, okay whatever he's hanging out with. But I'm like, it bothers me, Like it just bothers me, and she goes Unfortunately, She's like in those situations like you do have to pick a side mm hmm, especially with how me and my accentded and like it's not kosher in certain areas and like, you know it's But then I'm like my hypocrite for them, like hanging out with a friend of you know every

once in a while, like to check in. Well, even though on the surface they sound like similar situations, I think they are actually pretty different because of the romantic element and because not that your friend is hanging out with your ex romantically, but it is a much more complicated situation. Um, it sounds like. Um also the fact of that, that's the fact that you weren't told about it, So there seems like just innately, there's something to hide

or something. And I'm not saying romantically, I'm just saying it's it's her, it's her husband. But they they're hanging out as like a group or whatever. But still like Nick, her husband and my they would never and if even if we were all kosher, me and Max, like, I still think there'd be a conversation beforehand, like hey, like out of respect, yeah, exactly, But even then, I don't think did you share? Did did you tell your friend

that that? Yes? So I was like, is this true that this is happening, And they're like, yeah, we hang out, um whatever friends with some other people and you know, yes, And and I said, it really hurts my feelings that you didn't you know, discuss this blah blah bla or talk to me about it, and it out of the entire conversation what hurt me the most. And like I've I started immediately crying to crying to my therapist about it. And then crying to my boyfriend last night. But she goes,

I hope she was coming from a divorced family. I hope that you can you and your ex can reconcile. And in my mind, I'm like, no friend of mine

would ever want me. It was it felt like a slap in the face, like you sat on my floor taking out pictures of our life together, me and my ex, while I told you some of the worst things ever, and yet you would want me to reconcile with a man that did all those It just felt like a slap in the face, not sing or like they didn't believe my story or just you know it didn't believe it. And so I was just like I'm done. I was like, there's no conversation needed, like and I because I'm like,

I literally Pamelan. When I was telling you my best friend this, she was like, I'm gonna be honest with you. She's like, I would I couldn't be your friend if you got back with your ex, And I go, that is more of a friend then what that friend just said. You know, and Catherine wouldn't work with me, you know. It's like, I mean, I don't that exactly she's like, if you don't get divorced, I'm not going to work

with you. And it's like, to me, that is more of a friend than like whatever it's but it was just like and so I said my piece, and I said, I don't need a response back. I'm like, it's just it hurt really bad. But now I'm I have like a million questions in that. But I think the question on the side is like, how do you walk away from the decision, like feeling really confident in your decision because we have friends there, She's friends with her, My

other queendom is friends with her, you know. So it's like it's a very tricky, moving forward situation. So give it to me. Well, well, I mean I think in this case, number one, it sounds, you know, we we could probably have a much longer conversation about this, But it sounds to me that number one, this person does not see who you who you are at all, and she's choosing a narrative that serves her needs, which is

she needs to feel good about what she's doing. And and it's very obviously difficult to come up with a reason, you know, something reasonable how she's behaving. So she's put it back on you to you. Wouldn't it be convenient for her if you two would reconcile, right, And so this is her her her thing. You are not in

this equation at all, right, as far as she's concerned. Um, And so I think the thing you need to really pay attention to is just your gut reaction, your gut response, and and that's really tells you all that you need to know in terms of am I moving in the right direction? And based on everything that you've told me right now, this seems like every beat you took was the right one in the sense of you confronted her, you communicated your problem, why you are haven't we struggling

with this? And then when her her reaction was way out of line and you decided to take action around and said, well, this is this is done for me because um, there's nothing here that helps. This relationship doesn't in no way conserve me. And so what do friends do then when other friends break up? Well, that's there that that's that then become when you take yourself add and this is hard to kind of this is hard, easier to say than to do. But when you extract

yourself from a situation you extracted. The people that are still remaining in these situates, they need to figure out how to work around this. You've made a choice. They need to figure out how they're going to continue to operate with this person, what their own moral compasses around this person um and you know, if they are still aligned, and if they are and that's still a right choice for them, then that's something they need to handle. That's

not your problem. You've made the action, and that's the choices that are right for you based on the way you feel. And it seems like a very clear vision of the person you want to be right now. Everything else that goes on between them and how they're going to operate and how they're going to operate then with you is a them thing. You need to try and problem solve for other people's relationships and how they're going

to navigate right for you. Can be sensitively. You don't want to be like, so you hang out you that with that person? Did they say anything about me? Did

they say you know? You don't. But you just need to be conscious of separating yourself from all kind of energetic attachments to this other person and have trust and confidence that the people that are still friends with her, are that that relationship is very strong with you, and they will have your back and they will operate in the best in the best manner that is respectful to you, while still maintaining a relationship that they hopefully, after consideration,

still feels as valuable for them with this other person. But that's of them. You have done what you need to do. Let the chips fall where they may. Um, it's not so much like a pick sides kind of situation like you and your ex. Right, wait, well, I feel like you're kind of asking, like, as the other friends, should you pick sides? Like, so this other friend that

she's having an issue with, should I pick sides? You know, because she's having issue and we're closer obviously, should I then not be friends with this other girl or her with my other friend? Right? So are you asking me if if you need to pick sides because you're still friend? Well, I think it's kind of the same situation essentially. I guess we're both kind of in the same boat. But yeah, right, well it well, it does seem less kind of um

less emotional stakes with the friend. The first scenario you brought up with your friend because number one. You you asked if it was okay? Right? You said, So, that's that's what. You're just starting with a different energy. You're just coming from a different place of honesty, and so right off the bat, the dynamic is different. You are also, it sounds like checking in with this person who, as you said, had a similar life experience with you. It's

not like you're deeply in mention in her world. It feels like a far more casual situation, like we would never play three handed you without you, I would never do well and kind of answer your which I said it was totally fine, obviously, but I won't lie that it's It is hard, and I think it will be hard for you at times with certain friends that are still friends with her, if you're seeing where they're hanging out or whatever. It's not an easy thing for people

like us that I mean, our emotional people. I mean, it's not easy. But I have a harder time with it with like another mutual friend of ours h m hmm, with between me no no, no no, with that person and another mutual friend, it's harder for me knowing that person is closer to her because I don't fully trust what she's saying, I trust you, But that is almost harder because it's like that person hasn't reached out to

me to see how I am. It's just so I know she has chosen aside, and so that friendship is probably going to go. It's very clear that she has chosen aside because I haven't heard from her. I know she's talked about it to other people, you know. I know that this friend is going through something through other people, you know. So again I think it's it can be hard, but and I think with your situation, you know, that's a hard one. I think again because how it ended,

and like how like he lied to everybody. He lied to everybody on this podcast. He I mean, he lied to it. So it's like, which is why he hasn't reached out to your husband because they can read through the BS meter, you know. And so I'm like, you know what, fine, you want that? Like, you know, I'm not trying to like I don't want to not have any friends, but it just felt very like I guess it's icky with friendships and then divorce and the whole. Yeah,

you can't see how very complicated the situation is. I mean, just getting a little snippet, a little snapshot of what's going on here. And here's the thing. The chance of controlling somebody else's behavior and controlling an outcome with somebody else's zero percent. The chance of controlling your own behavior. So where you're going to spend your time and energy right, All you can do is focus on you try and operate out of a place of truth, on authenticity, and

operate from that place with confidence. And you really need to let I mean, I don't want to sound flip flippant when I say let the chips fall where they may is, but I really you have no influence on how these other people are going to interact. You've got no influence how your partner sitting right there is going to interact with this person. None. You can sit there and cry, you can get excited, you can get mad, but at the end of the day, you'll have no

actual impact. The only thing that you can take confidence in is how you're orienting yourself in the world. And then and and so that's where you want to spend the time because that's where you've got the influence, you know, And I think that's so you're your instinct to end it with this other person who who you know, said a terrible thing and had it's a terrible idea and

also is operating in a shady way. Is the exact right in this instant, is the exact right instinct because you've got zero chance of influence of changing this person right and it and it seems like she doesn't want to be changed her influence. So this is where you need to step away, because this is this person is not operating in the same the same wheel house that you are. The only thing you can do and it'll hurt, And I think that's okay. Yeah, And it's not like you.

It's not like I don't want my ex t have friends like I want him, like I'm happy he's got friends and all that. It's just someone that I confided in some of the worst things possible. It would want us direct like that is just like I just felt

like such a slap in the face. And also like I will say to like, we had talked about another friendship on here and um kind of around the same similar ish situation, and her friend had reached out to me saying, like, you know, I really would love for you guys to reconcile and I'm like I just at this point, like again like I'm I'm I don't want that kind of energy of a friend to have that um to be that way because I was. It's just it's just like I just don't. I just don't want it.

It's like I don't I have enough, Like I've got my queendom five beautiful you know, best best friends like those, And there's a few people that touch that at that outer line that I, you know, stay in contact with. But it's like those are the ones that like I want to like put my time into and like love and be there for and you know, the other ones are just well, and I think it can be okay to not want it. It's like we're conditioned to like we're the bad guys because we may not want that

friendship anymore. That's right, you know, totally. And that's and that's why what's so much of so much of the book is about is like, let's reflect, let's do an audict to how on how we're behaving in these relationships and how we're you know, and and then be able to communicate and not feel bad about making choices right we were were nothing more than the choices we make and we're not really at dely making choices in these relationships,

in these in this type of relationship, and that's a problem. I mean, jet to just like talking to where you when you when you started and we were talking, you're talking like this, and then you just went into heres. The mic is going up like this, the energetically no, and I'm not I'm not calling out. There's a world of energy around these relationships that we're not kind of

it's so hard for us to process. It's so confusing because we're not talking about it in a way that we would, you know, the other types of relationships in our lives. And that's why it's so important, so that we can like feeling hey, you know, like and and and say hey, I'm operating and this is what I need and this is what I'm gonna only accept and this is you. I'd love for you to come on the ride with me, but only if we agree on kind of boundaries and standards and and and we'll agree.

If it's not we're not meeting these were out of here, I mean, you know, because we can't just be suffocated by like an inaction or a fear of action or having deep owns of friendship with no way to kind of like express them and take the energy out. And the flip side of that is if we do what an amazing source of energy and positivity and support, right if we can flip the script on this, And so that's why I think it's so important. I love that. Um,

we'll tell our listeners. You can get your book right on Amazon. Yeah, yeah, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Indie Books, wherever you buy books. The book is available. And I am Aaron Falconer dot com or at Aaron Falconer or at Pick the Brain. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I cannot wait to read your book than Amazon it right now. How to break up with a friend? Thank you, Aaron, Thank you? So all right by girl, Well that was insightful. That make you feel better?

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Oh you have therapy right now. Hey, hey, excited, it's been like I feel like it's been like a month, so not so much. Sorry Amy, but it hasn't. It's only been two weeks, so it's fine, Okay, go have fun. No, thanks, we can to be continued on the rest of it, because, um, I'm exhausted. From that, it was a lot. Yeah. Um, not exhausted in a bad way, just like I just if I if I sit too much in that like I feel I just need to like let it go.

It's easy, al right, guys chuged you next week. Thank you,