WHO ARE THE *HORNIEST* PEOPLE IN HISTORY??

Matt, are you ready for a night of fun?

I'm always down for fun. Now now you know that.

Well, we hit two.

Million listens this year and to celebrate, we're going on tour.

That we are. So on Thursday the seventh of September, we're going to be in Melbourne, Wednesday.

The thirteenth of September, we're going to be in Brisbane.

And Thursday the twenty first of September, we're going to be in Sydney.

We're going to have special guests, prizes and so much fun. So make sure you get your tickets in our show notes.

Bye see you there.

I want the fairy Tale. I want the Prince Charming.

She how do I put this? Isn't a fan of my kissing style.

Boyfriend and girlfriend for about twelve hours. He's in a trash bin. He's non recyclable, catching my.

Mus I love being in love. I love love.

On today's episode of Where's Your Head At, we are sitting down with Esne Louise, historian, author, journalists, and TikTok personality.

As my host of podcast, has performed at Ted talks and releases TikTok videos about kinky history and today we'll be getting to find out some sourcing information about sex through the ages.

Who will ask her all about her favorite sex and sexuality moments throughout history, and whether or not our sexual preferences or routines have changed in the last one hundred years.

Stick Around.

Where's Your Head At?

Is a podcast that talks all things relationships, breakups, reality TV, trending shows, and everything in between.

This is your new go to destination for laughs, gossip, intimate details, advice, and much more.

Hello, Hello, Hello, how are we It's so nice to have you in the studio with her.

This feels like a long time coming. No, absolutely, this is wonderful.

It's good to finally get you. We met at Splendor in the Grass. You've had your live show as well.

I know, and I feel really bad because I couldn't make yours because I was getting really drunk as soon as I came off the planet.

That's what's he should have.

We should because yeah, we're in the shuttle together and then we're like, watch your show, and then you didn't come.

Do you know?

I really thought about it, but my priority as soon as I came off that plane was I need to find a bottle of champagne. And then I was like, oh, they're on, and then I felt really bad. Sorry, this is my formal apology to you.

Technically we didn't come to your show, but you did go live, so I technically also saw it.

I did that.

I feel like I was it.

Oh if you can't remember, but I can't say that. We definitely enjoyed some time together backstage, so it doesn't really matter about the show. I don't think I gave you a rundown of my show anyway.

So yeah, and when.

We met you, you are filled with so much knowledge about sex and just just a plethora of information that is so random that I never thought I needed, but I was like, I think I like I really needed that, Like this is so interesting. I've actually repeated some of the things you said back to my fiancee Michael, and he's like, who told you this?

Did have you fact check this? And I'm like, yes, esme.

The historian from Slender in the Grass told me about this.

This is fact Chac. It's terrified, I promise you. They all just like to be spanka.

The story that you told when it wasn't during your podcast, but when you did that speech about the girls putting fish in their vagina.

Oh yes, and we just can't be real. No, it was real. Tell it from the story. I could not believe.

I don't think I told it right. But and I was like what, and I was like yeah, yeah, like.

Yeah, people put fish in their vaginas. I swear. I think this is part of the really kinky compartment of my brain is just like filled with all of this terrible stuff. But it was in the medieval ages, and there was this uh like old wives tale that they were trying to get their husbands into bed with them, and they wanted them to be fertile because there was a belief at the time that it was like the man that was solely responsible for producing an air, and

Oh yeah, and alive, shut out a.

Lot, let it soak in their juices, wait until it dies dies.

So you're like vaginas like suffocating the fish to dead.

For me to be fair, it's probably like an og vibrator, like just flopping around in.

That imagine trying to get it in.

They're squirmy, and they didn't specify the size of the fish iver so I don't know if we're talking about goldfish. But after that they were after it soaked in the juices, they would then cook it and serve it to the husband as like an aphrodisiac, and it was meant to, you know, make them go like, hmm, I really feel like her vagina, to know, like fish and chips.

Yeah, no, ship. I remember the whole thing when I was like it was wild story.

Use if that is a true story.

It was written down by this this bishop of the time and recorded, and so it's kind of like, well, if he's writing it down, it's either you know, real, or he was, like I think that this is what women do.

I hope happen vagina was born?

Is that where it was born from that?

I haven't been able to trace this theory, but I think, you know, probably a connotation. But for a long time that like the fish in the vagina, fishy vaginas, the smell or just passes down. There's so many words like that that just have passed down for these crazy sex moments from history that it's.

So likely, you know, what's so interesting?

So I recently was in Europe and I was in Barcelona specifically, and they have this sex museum there, very famous. And it's interesting because Matt actually that day was like, we're gonna have Esza on the podcast finally, because we've tried to tea this up for a while, and I was like, I have to go to this sexx museum, like I want to like have some thing to tell you.

Anyway, I'm so excited.

It's not like that good I took.

It's definitely not as good as the fish story. She actually went to a fish market. She's I guess what.

Michael loved it.

But I did see the first ever documented porno love in there.

Me and Michael sat down for like twenty minutes and watched this.

It was like I think it was like three different pornos on repeat and they're just like so stray, Like I love it. What era was the like video kind of? I think it was like I wish I knew I have it on my phone. I took a phone.

I think it was like eighteen. I wanted to.

Dress stop like it was yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a very flickery. I love that and like the sex that they were having it was just like what position?

Yeah, what were they doing?

It was like very stop and starty, like was that the film?

It was a film, but it was mainly them, So like the guy was like it was okay, I don't want to say this because it's maybe a.

Bit like it was a bit rapy.

Oh yeah, Like the girl came into this guy's office and then he pulled up put his head in her boobs for a second, and then pulled the top back down, and it was like there was like this like uplifting music.

Playing the whole time.

Ye.

Yes, Well, Charlie Chaplain had like a whole sex thing. He used to enjoy throwing pies at women who were naked on his couch, and that's kind of how he would cast them as well. Like, yeah, he has a whole weird sex thing. He was weird for many many reasons. But yeah, he used to enjoy get off to throwing.

Pies at women insane. Yeah, isn't that like kinks right.

That's one of those things judge someone's king.

Yeah, that's true.

I don't know.

I like.

Throwing a pie at me, like is it a hot piem?

Like going to get you?

Well, I mean hopefully it's not very like Australian.

And then I was just like hot pies, meat pie some source on it.

Worse enough, when you like buy into it, it's just like.

I'm picturing like the pies.

It is the whipped cream. Yeah, okay, which kind of makes like you think about when you see some of the Charlie Chaplin films and there is a lot of pies in them. And then like you know, reports from women being like, no he threw pies and got off yeah, and no wonder he went into like the you know what some.

Of the craziest kings you've heard speaking of kinks.

Craziest kinks I've heard. It's so hard because I've become really desensitized to them. I think what's quite interesting is like being in this line of work. You know, I'll speak on the internet about like nylon fetishes and fetishes and all of these kind of fetishes and people will

So do you get a lot of that people sending in like their weird kinks.

Yeah, And I think it's it's it's nice. I kind of like it. I'm like, I will tell you that this is normal, and I'll give you stats, but I'm not gonna go into the details of your fantasy right now. That feels like that's between you and your party.

Yeah, because I feel like, would some of these people maybe like tell you them because they're kind of like getting off that you're reading this and then it's some sort of like sexual self.

Yeah.

I think that is definitely the case for a lot of them. I think there's nothing I would say, there's nothing sexier than research. So I'm just sending back stats and probably not giving them what they want. But I was like, yeah, take this.

People, where are you getting your SATs from? Can't they just?

Oh, I do you know what.

I talked about?

Statistics? We were just talking about this before the podcast starts. My mom runs all the statistics for my research, which is a very ill.

Your relationship with your mom is just like the optimum mother daughter relationship in my mind. Like I listened to your episode with your mom, and you guys are like giggling and talking about sex and talking about like, you know, like rimming and stuff, and I'm just like, I don't even.

Know if my mum knows what room is.

I'm pretty sure.

Your mom sounds fun. I think it's nice. I was saying that while we work on some of the research, I'll get these really crazy messages from my mom without context, which would just be like, hey, honey, I'm working on rimmen today. Have you got masturfation?

Love mom?

Oh, by the way, are we having dinner tonight? Like it's just really is so funny out of context, because she also just becomes really desensitized to this. And then I think my favorite one that I wanted to make the first line of the book was she just sent this message being like, hey, honey, did you know that people aren't having anal as much as they used to. Rimmon's are craze now and I was like, thank you so much.

Mom.

It's always just starts with high honey, and it's like just really filthy and then love, Mom, I love that.

How good?

Is that why you got into kinky history? Because your mum was so open? Like did you grow up with it all?

No?

Okay.

I think this is the weirdest part about all of this is Mom came and wanted to jump on the research as I started to work on kinky history, and she was like, your research sounds so much more fun than mine. And we were like really drunk one time. I think there's a recurring theme of my life. And we were really drunk, and she's like, what have you

And so alas your book was born right, Yeah.

Yeah, it's a comba with all of my kinky history knowledge, bringing in contemporary research which my mum's worked on, and then some random antidotes from our own life.

I mean, it doesn't get any better.

Read it.

It sounds amazing.

It might be a book that I actually read.

I love that. I love that.

That's what we want.

I keep telling Matt, like, you need to get better at reading.

Because he well, you heard me read out the intro.

And he's like, I just don't know if there's a book I can get into, but I feel like you could get into this book.

Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. Well, yeah, I was going to ask you that do you do much of the practicals of them or just theory?

Oh?

That was such like I was trying and I said before, I'm going to try and not ask that sleazy, but like, there's only so much how can I do?

Like, you know, do you know what's quite sad in some ways? And you would notice that by the time you start, you know, making podcasts and you become a content creator, you become really, really, really busy. It's not like a nine to five job, like you're just always busy. And there was a moment in my friendship group where I realized I was no longer like the sexy, kinky one.

I was just the one who did the theory.

You know.

In the past, it was always like, you know, as May has gone to sex clubs, she's like done everything, you know, come to her with your questions. And now my friends are just kind of like, that's so cute, Like you're in your little monogamous relationship.

Have you tried doggy?

I'm now the theory one. It sucks.

I love it.

I had the worst moment where I was out for dinner with five friends and I was sitting there having a great time until I realized that every single one of them was fucking one another. They're all in these like beautiful, open polyamorous relationships, doing gorgeous kinky stuff, and I was the only one not connected to the web.

Was like, we're on the outside, the fringe, the fringe river, Oh.

The mighty have fallen.

Well, speaking of your monogamous relationship, which I'm sure is not you know, how did you meet your lovely partner via bia bumble?

We're dating out. I think most people are in this data.

Yeah, Yeah, we love a dating app, and that's recently single.

I don't. Yeah, I don't use dating apps.

No, not at all.

You're an in person kind of guy. Instagram, you're still online dating.

On the app.

You're looking at the fire emotions and you're like this one.

That's your bumble prompt. I love that. So tell us about your partner. How did you guys me? Tell us a little bit about your relationship.

I think us I kind of forced him into a relationship.

You know what you wanted?

Well, yes, I know what I wanted. And we actually met a week before like lockdown and everything was getting announced, and I was living by myself in the city at the time, and we had connected on Bumble. I literally saw his dorky door profile picture and he's like because he's come over from Canada and he was like wearing this like Australian bucket hat, Australian shorts, like posing outside it. Yeah, And I was like, who is this man? And how is this your first picture on a dating site? Like

Blundy WOI that's really cute.

Yeah, And we've literally gone for an hour drink. That was it. I was like, I'll give you an hour, yeah, clicked, my claws were in. I was like, I love this man. He's absolutely the chaotic. It's so wonderful. Two days later, he was gonna take me out for dinner and I was like, there's actually this like virus going around. Do you mind if we read in check? You can just come over to mine for takeaway. This man doesn't leave my house for three days. So it was a really

Did he have his own joint or just yeah?

But he was like in a sharehouse at the time, and I was being very late, Oh okay, I don't want what's happening, and so I just moved in with this man for six months for you.

You know what, when you feel it, you feel it right when you know you know. And if I mean, I'd prefer to move him with someone.

Ships that lockdown like forced. That was the same with me. And my exit is like my mom because I was looking at my mum's at the time. She's like, you're not coming back and forth. You're either one or the other. And I was like, well, you know, I'm getting my dicks out there, fair, I have priority. Yeah, I'm kind to go stay there. And the next thing we started dating didn't work out, but yours has. Obviously, I think like lockdown.

Was making break like for very but it was also when we cover a lot of this in the book, but like how COVID also affected our sex lives is so interesting. Like people bondage sales in Australia were at a huge high, Like we're talking about an eighty percent increase in people buying whips and chains, and even sex toys are like one hundred and twenty percent increase.

Like wow, we.

Have never seen a bigger boom in the sex toy industry. And I love that Lockdown kind of made people, I guess want.

To lock each other down.

Like we were just like really getting very experimental. Yea, if you're locked in the house with nothing to do, we're just like, let's try pegging.

For nothing else to do, let's go for it.

To be fair, I had some very good lockdown sex. Yeah, you know what I mean. Things were getting very excited.

Yeah, why I was. We were doing like different kinks and different stuff when we were in lockdown together as well, we were expressing them. Yeah.

It is so like everyone and the sales have kind of remained, so this is like we're really interested in tracking. But like people were kinky in Lockdown and stay kinky, and I think they have because we also look at you know, podcasts like this, the podcast like mine that started afterwards, there's now this need to kind of want to talk about sex. Yeah, and we're talking about a lot more. Yeah, fucking horny.

We're also horny.

Yeah's like acts like we're not. Those days are over.

Yeah, and people love listening to sex as well, like I love listening to people talk about sex, like I love listening to your podcast.

Oh that's so interesting.

And speaking of that, yeah, you said that sales to sex toys went up one hundred and twenty percent.

Can you tell us a little bit about the history of the dialo sentence? She knew it was coming.

I think it's my favorite question of all times.

I think I asked you this.

Yeah, in the car your first question, I was.

Like telling you where the dido started starting a cave with the year or no, maybe you told me that.

Then I wanted him, Matt, say, what do you.

Think it is?

Something like did the carve a rock or something into it?

Oh?

That would be sharp.

Well, I mean you're not far off. That's a log or something. It was a siltstone object that was found in a German cave in two thousand and five, and they've dated it back to twenty eight thousand years ago, twenty eight eight thousand, so for context, we invented writing it about five thousand years ago, so like we were far more interested in getting off.

Yeah, even thought eight thousand years.

Ago, twenty eight thousand years ago. And the object that they found was like, so it's found, but it has a ring around the top and it was quote highly polished at the top from overuse. That's in the official research paper, and that's what made them determine that it was definitely a sex toy. And then they found similar models from like ten thousand years ago, fifteen thousand years ago, five thousand years ago. And then by the time we start writing in like you know, ancient Greece, they write

Yeah. Get I was thinking about like the time skinny breadsticks.

And they looped it up with olive oil.

Olive oil is actually still a very popular form of lubrication, but it was really well documented in ancient Greece, and a lot of their pots that have like sex depicted on them used to contain olive oil. That was kind of like advertising today, like here's all of the people you could fuck if you used your lubrication.

Wow, makes sense.

It's so interesting, right because when I went to this museum in Barcelona, there was like so much like like photographs and video and just like so much imagery of like people having sex and people having threesomes and orgies and all.

And I was like in my mind.

I genuinely think I thought that, like our grandparents and parents weren't really having sex because it was so taboo and like not spoken about. But then when I was in there, I was like, wait, they were having a lot of sex. Like I genuinely thought my grandparents probably had sex three times because they had three kids.

That's how taboo it was in our.

Family behind closed doors.

Yeah, but like it's just I mean to see the images, I was like, wow, like people.

Were really going at it. They were really.

Yeah, Like there was this like woman and this guy was like putting this big log thing.

Yeah, oh wait wan to hurt. Oh that's not it was huge.

And I was like, whoa, I know, I have a phone on my phone because.

You were allowed to take photos. It wasn't like.

Later, No, it was like a photo. It was actually happening.

Wow.

Yeah, that's nice. That's kind of like logging in the early days.

I mean, like, Peggy, I remember another question I asked you in the car was and you clear cleared it up. Cleopatra.

Cleopatra and her vibrator.

Yeah, she was a sex theme, but you said she it's I cur't remember said because that was one of the questions asked. It wasn't clear a patra black gobby master or something.

Golden Mouth, golden Mouth, is that really a thing?

Well that the story goes that she gave one hundred people in one night a gobby and then gaining the name golden Mouth from Julius Caesar. But I was explaining that Cleopatch is an interesting one because she would have been a very sexually autonomous woman and very soon after she died. What historians at the time, they're very different today,

Does that work?

Yeah?

How does that work? As an alligator from the bum?

I love alligators and crocodiles.

But I mean it's one of those things that you kind of take everything with a grain of salt, like this is someone This was like someone in Sydney riding about someone in Melbourne. You know, someone in ancient Greece is riding about someone in ancient Egypt, and they're like, no, they're so fuck alligators over there, Like, yeah.

I heard from a friend there.

And so Cleopatra and how holy gold of angry bees and her golden mouth all come out of this time of just everyone's slandering one another but using set, which means that things like blowjobs and everything were very well recorded and very well known, and that's something to take out of it. Female masturbation was clearly very well known. The joys of vibrations were very well known.

Like then, why through history then it was so talking about Then why did like masturbation and female masturbation especially not keep going like that? Why did it like stop and become taboo and change?

There's a really important turning point for us in the seventeenth eighteenth century. That's the area that in my professional life at university I specialize in because there is such an interesting point where we change everything are thinking about everything to do with the body changes, like eating, defecating, sex, and homosexuality and all.

Of these kind of things become prude almost.

Yeah, basically there's a really big flashback for the church becomes a lot more political, They kind of become more authoritative, and you know, even things like we had a war on sugar, where like you shouldn't eat sugary foods because that will make you promiscuous, and it's not christianly to eat sugar and the yeah, yeah, at the same time

Is that because like priests weren't allowed to have sex, so they were trying to like make feel bad.

Well that it's a bit of a form of like social control, right, because if you're telling everyone of the general public, you can't partake in our sugary foods the upper class could they believe that fruits and meats were only for people who were born to.

The aristocracy, Yeah.

And everyone else shoudnent partake in it. So it's a form of social controls. So you get rid of anything to do with pleasure, you get rid of sugar, you get rid of masturbation, and they start to define like kind of homosexuality and heterosexuality for the first time. Up until then, it was pretty much you know, anything goes in a lot of ways. So this is all like

I'm pretty good.

Ice cream. I'm so mad.

So that's exactly the era that we're looking at, like where everything.

Changed was he was a horn bag.

He was.

Yeah, he was absolutely loved it.

There's like a rumor about him that he sent this letter to his wife and he was like, I'm coming home. Make sure you don't bathe for five days, because apparently he liked his women really smelly.

Yeah.

Yeah, man, that's like a kink of his of like wanting hungent smell.

For fishing vagina.

He was like, let's bring that back.

Yeah.

Well, look, there was a show that came out on Netflix a couple of years ago called Bridges Him.

Yes.

I feel like for historians, I don't know, but.

I feel like it would be like, oh my god, this is like so interesting, and like, I guess you'd be fact checking. Can you talk us through, like what your first reactions to that show were.

My first reactions were I had access to the show a day early and I was told to like write all of the articles about it, which was quite interesting because Bridgerton is like, you know, a fictional setting, but it's inspired by history, and so there's so much that is actually really interested in that. Like one of the first articles I wrote on the first day, I don't think they wanted me to write this, but I'm like

Oh my gosh.

And their only cure for it was mercury. Putting people mercury.

There's a common thing today.

We're all just really hungry. But yeah, so I was writing about the fact that these wigs and everything, and even some of the masked balls and everything. Part of that was to hide your the effect of syphialis so the person wouldn't know. There's like there's a whole interesting story behind that. Also, you know things like the queen in that show is constantly snorting something and everyone's like, is the queen doing cocain?

Yea, what is she sniffing?

It's called a snuff box, and it's how you would have had tobacco at the time.

It does sniff on tobacco.

Yeah, basically, yeah, and that's how she smokes.

Yeah, and they would have their snuff box and it would be filled with salts and everything as well. But it just looks like she's doing cocaine.

It look like that. Yeah. I actually, until now I thought she was doing.

You're like queen, No, I just know the one scene in there where he goes down and a girl on the stairs. It's pretty long.

Oh, it's beautiful.

It's a very horny show, like the first one, the first all of it. Really, it's just like, I mean, the last season was just like so depressing, and it was boiling my eyes out Queen Charlotte.

Well, I boiled my eyes out in Queen Charlotte. But I also couldn't stop writing down everything to write about. Like one day they have baby Mozart that who comes into the show, and I was like, Okay, Mozart gets really into Pooh in a few years time, and so let's talk about that. He maybe five here, but in you know, give him another ten. And he's really into sitting on women.

Like really, yeah, he like has a whole whole.

He writes songs.

About it, oh dumps, Yeah, he.

Writes he writes songs about beautiful Yeah, and they're in rounds. They're like you can listen to them now. One of them is called le mission Marsh, which means lick me in the.

Arse, like mission marsh, let me.

Like it's written so everyone can sing it around. It's like lick my ass nicely, lick it nice and clean, light, nice and clean. Lick my ass like a good roast beef. Lick my ass.

But this isn't his only Yeah, Corny, I think that's like the key take out here. It's interesting, right because like we all know Mozart, yeah, moatsts yes, But like that's never.

Come up until we are now talking to the kinky history.

When I was at school and I was studying history, all of this, Like, I think that this very important information has been left out.

I imagine Miss Fletcher going and then he would ship on their chest.

Well, feel like a weaving robbed from this information as children growing up in our education.

I think it's nice.

I know this sounds really weig because we're just talking about motes. I wanted to ship on the girls he was seeing. But I think in a weird way, it's kind of nice because it makes these people who feel so big and untouchable like in famous figures, it makes them really human again, very human, and you know, yeah, it's a very human behavior.

All do it?

Do we.

Toilet sit on people? Sorry clarified. I have a lot of kinks, but that is not one.

But I think it's kind of of nice. And I enjoy reading a lot of like the letters they would send to one another. Obviously that's why I do this, But I think it makes these people very, very human, untouchable, and it kind of makes you realize that everyone, even these prolific figures, are so real, like they all have their kinks and they're fun. Sex was always something we were playing with and exploring, and also all of these weird desires that we have today that people are like,

Like yeah, it's fun, it makes them fun, it's interesting and people want to know.

And I mean I.

Think it's in a way everyone has a kink as well, and there's nothing to be ashamed of it. That's it, even if it's like a miniscal one of like you know, like I like their back or something like you know, everyone has bad yeah, you know, everyone's it has a king that they're into.

Maybe we could like look it back to your inspirations, be like I am really into parts, just like James Joyce or choose your favorite yeah yeah, yeah.

What do you say to someone that's in a relationship and they have this kink but their partner isn't willing to experiment with it and give it the time of day. What's the best advice for that?

My advice has changed only because the feedback I've got has changed. I received so many messages from people being like, I didn't know how to explain my desires to my husband. I was really embarrassed. And then I showed him your video on like Jean Jacques Rousseau, and then I was able to talk about it. We laughed about it, and then we tried it, and I was like, I love

Speaking of being pegged, what a sega reminded me of an article that I saw about Prince Williams.

Is that true?

I think I should have looked this up after. I was like, okay, we're keeping the royals. I don't want to be canceled by Charles right now. When I put it, I think I told you this. But when I put up my video about the King, Charles now King wanting to be a tampon in a.

Leaked phone that's right, which is a real that's a real phone call.

Yeah, Tampon Gate is a real thing. That was in the tabloids. They had a transcript of him talking to Miller.

And he's with Princess Diana at the time.

He was with Princess Diana at the time, very controversial, and he's like, I want to be a tampon and crawl up inside you. I just wish I could live there and so on the day. On my end, but I was like the day of his coronation, I was like, let's remember the time the King wanted to be a tampon. From my end, I'm like, I'm doing what I normally do. I'm humanizing him. Not to the royalists, they did not like that.

I could imagine well, it's true, he did take it.

It's so funny. You know what's so annoying about having this interview.

I have this like residual cough and I just want to like kiss myself laughing, and I'm like trying to hold it in because I'm like, I don't want to cough into everyone's ears.

That was funny.

It's someone's kink, I'm sure.

Yeah, don't shame people for their kink.

Different while to have the current king, Yeah, there's transcripts.

Of him wanting to surely Henry the eighth had some kinks.

I mean, I would say that this man probably had a fertility kin, a very strong one, like what is it?

We said it as well, what is it dead? What is it? Beheaded?

Oh my gosh, the headed, separated, died, be headed, separated, survived. There you go, all because of kids. So yeah, definitely definite fertility kink.

I would say, as a historian or a kinky historian, shall we say, when you first met your partner, did you obviously you've introduced, like what you do. Did you feel a little bit of pressure heading into the bedroom.

Yes, I think I feel that in a lot of like my sexual experiences, it's kind of like you're very much expected to go all out and to be fat, like like, I've had no complaints.

Back.

No, No, I'm too cocky for my own good. But I think it's really interesting.

I didn't leave for three days. Was very right.

I had him tied up. He actually when I said that I had my I was like, I will trap this man. No, we're not going to.

That's where he still is to this day, after hanging in my lounge room.

You wonder why you've never met him. So here's my own gimp. But I actually feel very grateful in a lot of ways that I blew up after getting into a relationship because I don't. I mean, you probably have both experienced this more than I have. The expectations that you have when you have this public persona. I just don't think I would want to deal with that in the bedroom. I genuinely don't. I would always be that conscious the whole time and being like is this kinky enough?

I think? And I think a lot of guys would go for you because of like that, like I want to see how kinky you know, And I've got this king she's gonna want to you know.

Yeah, I think the only thing that could cancel me is people being like, she's actually not as kinky as she says.

I went home with her and she didn't even want to use a whip.

She didn't even want to peg me.

This bitch on the first night didn't even want to peg.

Met the pressure. I feel like, oh my god.

Yeah, I mean, I'm just gonna do missionary.

Okay, I might get on top for a bit.

Sometimes you do want to have basic, boring vanillas. Absolutely, you're tired and you're like, I I just want an orgasm, then I want to go to sleep. Yeah, I'm glad I'm not in my one night stand fase because that would be like, hey, actually you're you're the one who misses out.

Missionary is good, done right, I'm not. I'm not against it.

Yeah.

Missionary, as a little fun fact, came from missionaries like the people who would go out to spread the good word of Jesus. Because at this time where we're talking about that turning point in that seventeenth eighteenth century, they decided the church that it was the least pleasurable sex position, and so they said that the only permissible position you

Yeah, well.

They're not allowed to enjoy it.

But then allegedly the missionaries went out to spread the good word, and the local inhabitants would just laugh at them when they thought that this is how Westerners did sex, and they were like, absolutely not. And that's how apparently how I got the missionary.

So you're telling me that back in the day people were pretending to not enjoy sex because the church was telling them they shouldn't.

Yeah, oh yeah.

There's like very comical writing by Saint Augustine and he is like men and women must descend to the bed chambers with an air of melancholy, and they should get to the unpleasurable task with regret and resentment. And that's like they wanted people to be like upset while they were like.

They're like this is so bad.

Yeah, they're having the best sex of their life and they're like this is terrible.

I hate so awful.

But there was a real They really tried to spread the belief that if you felt any kind of pleasure while doing the act that was as bad as cheating, like that was just as sinful. Really yeah, yeah, yeah, Christians really are that self hate thing at that time that that was their good words?

So is that why then? No, that was a different reason. Sorry why King Henry made the Church of England because it could get divorced. That that wasn't because he wanted to enjoy sex.

Let's talk about condoms and how they were created and what out of I.

Love condoms history, I was gonna say, I love condoms, so yeah.

Safe sex.

Yeah, I mean again, I'm going back to that sixteen hundred time. But some of the og condoms were made out of the bladders of dead animals and yeah, yeah, so they was sheep, lamb pig intestines were very common and they would basically get them on a like a phallic mold and you would heat it and shape it and then tie it with a ribbon down the bottom. So you would have to like physically be doing a little bow on your condom, your dead lamb intestine condom, and you can imagine the smell.

Yeah, I was about to say that would stink.

And they did. They really stunk. And then they were very prone to breaking as well, So that was kind of the og one. At the same time, in Japan, they were using tortoise shells.

They were making.

Tortoise shells out.

Yeah, yeah, really really hard.

Well it would be a little like a tiny lep.

Yeah, and like shape round to and also not once they didn't have a nice little bow, so not one size fits all. But the most interesting part is that when condoms were invented, it wasn't for like to stop pregnancy. It was to stop syphilis.

As I say, what was the revelation that they had back in the day to use a condoct Yeah? What was it?

To syphilis? So we're trying to stop the spread. It was like really bad around that fourteen hundreds time, and so they started to create contems.

Wow, my mind's running wild about the tortoise shell because like this, and then how does that work?

You can look up pictures of them, and I very much invite you to look up pictures of them, definitely, but but yeah, they're almost like sheeps at The actual translation was something along the lines of penis protector, like it's very funny, or penis helmet. That's what it is, penis helmet. If you translate it directly into English, but they were literally like you would just kind of put them on the top of the penis.

This is wild. That is fucking hilarious. Yeah, igine, I'm ready.

But you imagine like getting hard into a shell as well, Like that hurts, Like I'm not a man, but that's gonna hurt.

I just don't get how it works, Like I need to look at that.

Why can they do measurements?

So what do I look at?

I would go tortoise tortoise condoms.

Japan Guys, you should look this up.

If you're at home right now, I'm not driving, look.

This right now, or if you're at the gym them like this.

Oh so that's that's your animal in testine condoms. Yeah, that's your animal intestine ones. I wish I'm yes, that's it.

That looks like it.

It looks like a hard Okay, I was actually imagining like a tortoise shell on the.

Yes, it's like it looks like a dick and it's just like hard and just slotting in hard substance.

And there's also like rigged like.

Wow, very which I love.

I mean, that's one of the better forms of contraceptive we had because I mean, we didn't really think that for a very long time. We didn't really know that, you know, sperm in vagina will definitely produce baby. It was a lot more superstitious. So condoms came around because of syphilis, and we were trying other methods, Like in twelfth century Italy, they would tie the testicles of weasels to their neck and fies as like witchcraft to stop

It's just so wild when you think about.

Doing this thing, just saying a hair of balls, and.

It's like that would stink as well, Like I feel like.

Ass options are smelly, all having stinky sex.

What we've learned today was like sex in history is very very stingc that's the key thing I've taken out and people put.

Maybe we're doing it wrong now, maybe going and freshening up and having a shower is wrong. They were doing it right.

No, I don't think it's anything that can turn you off more. I don't know how they did it in historical times, but like especially if you're going down on someone and then suddenly it's just that smell.

Absolutely not to be real, to be real, they were throwing their ship and piss out the windows, so I think they'd be a little bit immune to smell, like the streets are covered in Yeah.

So what I really love is that, you know firs, I like that beautiful place in front. They would have just been shitting like around the castle. Like you didn't have bath ROMs. You would just be like walking up the stairs, take a ship. People would clean it and get rid of it, and then you carry on your day.

Like it's it's really bizarre. No, it's it's it's it was a different words. It was a different time.

But I always like, you know when people are like why what when did we get weird kinks? And I was like, well, there's a huge kink for piss and shit that happened in the seventeen hundreds, and I think it was literally because of this, like you put it out of it now, it sounds really radical, like what they were really into being shout on. I was like, well no, but you've got to remember that people were literally walking around being like, oh sorry, I got a shit out.

Pull their pants down and just yeah, and.

You would have like chamber pots by your bed. So if you needed to piss in the middle of the night, you just piss into the pot the servant. We'll take it away the next day.

Like getting stage for it.

No, Like just like the way that we've changed our relation to our body, right, because it's not just sex that's changed. Now we're like, oh, my toileting is really private, no one can see me. Yeah, but that's just again at the time, but it was just like the Queen's just like like it's fine. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't ever something to be ashamed of. Yeah, which I think is really crazy.

It's so crazy now that women like cover their nipples and oh yeah grounds and like on the with just nipples out.

Yeah.

That's changing, though, isn't it slowly?

I don't know, is it?

I see, I would love to think it is, but I think it's so heavily sexualized in our culture that will take a very long time.

Yeah.

They did do a really interesting study back in the fifties, and it looked at one hundred and thirty different cultures around the world and their relationship to boobs, and they found that boobs were only sexualized in nine of these cultures, and even in those nine, they really differed about what they liked, whether they were big, small, long, anything, and in the rest of the cultures that they went to, they were actually disgusted that we used boobs as anything

Were really taking a bag.

Really, but it shows just how we've been really conditioned to be like, boobs are sexy, whereas that's not the case in every place in the world, and it's something that wasn't even the case in history. In the fourteenth century, this amazing woman called Agnes Sorel, who was like the mistress of the king, would go into the French court

Let me out.

But that was it because she was like, my boobs are beautiful, and this one's especially beautiful, and so her dress has come down. Here Agnes Sorel again, there's some beautiful portraits of her. She's got this like gorgeously, you know, like heavenly go about her and then just tit.

Yeah, even in Italy, recently, there was a few women like on the beach with their boobs out, and even me, I was like, oh, don't look, because I like, you know, look like I was like staring at her nice boobs, but I'm like, I didn't want to look like I was staring. But then like it's so heavily ingrained that sexual that even.

I was like, normal, like it's fine. I had to tell my own self in my head, I'm like, this is this is totally okay.

I'm probably one of those people boobs, boob.

You're boobs.

I can see that for you.

I was maybe from the years of watching wrestling growing up, and they were really heavily on the the boobs showing from the girl wrestlers sexualized it.

I feel like that was one of the main reasons that people watched the wrestling bouncing.

When did the whole debate start of like if you're a bum guy or where did that happen?

It really comes down to fashion. Fashion is really influential. So when I look at this like that study that, I'm like, boobs weren't always sexy. There's other times where we start sexualizing different parts of the body. Do you know, like those old regency dresses that have the giant bustle

Can't read, I love it, I.

Can feel it from here.

Was clearly a guy with a small penis has made that statement.

It was huge in ancient Greece, Like if you look at statues and sculpture from classical everyone's always like, why are the penises so small? That's why the penises are so small? You were meant to be more intelligent if you had a small penis. What's the guy Michaelangelo, Yeah, yes, sallis or small penises such of David's tiny little thing. But that belief was around for a long time because they thought that he would also make a better father because.

His spam had a shorter distance to travel.

So explained, Yeah, and then your.

Good mate Henry the eight is actually really influential in changing that because he had a big member and so, and he was really self conscious about it and so, but he was like a man that was just like, we can't get divorced, fu, O'll start a new church. And he kind of did that with fashion as well. So if you have a look at his armor that he used to wear, he has a giant, bloody like cock shield and he was kind of like, no big

That is hilarious.

Fascinating.

It is fascinating. It really is fascinating.

I'm here for your history of dick sizes.

Oh my god, I love it.

I mean it is funny because isn't it well known that the Italians and Greeks naturally have bigger So then therefore wouldn't that Greek who was it? But that was like the Aristotles Socrates, they would have probably been pretending to have small.

They were like, no, no, we are really smart, Like it's fine small, but it also makes you laugh and think sometimes because obviously the stuff that we know from ancient weld, the only people who are really writing are you know, you're very intelligent philosophers, and so they could have written fucking anything. They're like, no, no, guys, like small digs were reallyable, like if you find my skeleton, I was so smart, like I could have done anything. They really wrote history.

Men.

You can't trust them, can you.

They say they've got small penises because it's fashional, they probably really have a big dick versa.

They can over here.

And then the micro penis, it was a micro penis. Does that mean you were like genius?

Yeah, absolute genius.

That's what you want, Like you get anyone off.

But no, no, no, you're going to produce many airs because you have such a small penis. It was just going to be like true. But they thought that the gods would have blessed you either with brains or a penis basically, and they're like, oh, that the body can only have so much. So if you have a giant penis, you have very little brains.

Well, men do think with their penis?

Well, I mean, does make sense.

Speaking of penises, let's talk about the cockering.

Let's talk about the cockering. Apparently they were.

Made from the I can deal with this eyelashes of a goat. That is correct sually not no, it's correct that google this one if you like pictures of this one.

How many goats would make a cockery one?

So it was the eyelid of goat and eyelashes they kept everything. So you would take the eyelid of a goat, which kind of makes a circle here. You would keep the eyelashes for extra stimulation. Now, what they would do would be they wet the eyelid, get all soggy tied around your penis, and then wait for it to dry. And it dried, it hardened like the original cockering. This

I don't do it, but I'm not a big fan of a cockring. I've never really.

Tries vibrating cock rings.

No, I haven't actually.

Change out, Okay, especially if you're if you're with a woman as well, like that turns your penis into a vibrator.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've just always put it on and been like, and it's just it's actually where it's the opposite. It's sort of throwing me off. No, kept me. I like, it's almost on my mind.

But I think it's such a different sensation. I say this, like, I have a penis, I've heard are you feeling mine as well, but I think the vibrations help in a lot of ways because normally with cock rings that have vibrators, they'll have like a little battery pack almost on them. You sit that like next to your balls as well, you're getting well, really quadruples stimulation in a lot of ways because you're getting your vibrations kind of going towards

Yeah, I've seen one in a girl's top drawer and I measured it off and I was like, I.

Would say, don't use anyone else's cockran.

Yeah, that's probably a good point as well.

Cock ring what I was looking.

At it and I was like, yeah.

I'm one of the like because you use cock rings on like strap ons as well. And this one time, this girl pulled out a cock ring that had been used so many times. There was like hairs on it, there was everything, and I just went, I was like, you're not seriously like gonna that's not that's not on the table.

Don't you rinse it? I have, well, you can rinse it, but like my bush could drawer.

When I'm drawer is unsanitary.

Oh no, it's my drawer under my bed. It's like a container. And I caught the bush could drawer because during intercourse I wushker it out and it's got all my whip handcuffs. It's wild.

I was at a party at Matt's house once and he's like, but it was like show and tell.

He was like, I love it. It's my rope and this is my That's the sign of a good party. I love when that happens. I love genuinely. Like one of my favorite things is when the host is like, do you want to see my sex toys?

But like yeah, like.

Sure, it's like a lovely intimate part and like we'll be like we're really your friends now, like here's my horse smart, I go, nag.

We've dressed my mate up, put him in a choker, put the gag yeah, the gag thing on.

Yeah.

I've so many whips broken in the course of a house party of everyone being like can we see and then then everyone's just got them and I'm like, oh no, I've.

Got a really good one from Bras and things. It was like a Nine Tales fucking really good one that's not breaking any.

That's breaking anytime.

So everyone.

Around and sticking around.

That's what you were.

How has sex changed from now with our woosh couldraws.

Between like the last hundred years, do you know what?

In a lot of ways like it hasn't, which is what I think is really interesting. And the biggest thing that's happened is that we have body save products now, and we have the internet to be able to provide educational information. But in terms of like sexual ex ferimentation and everything, we have done that for a really long time.

Wow.

And now that's the kind of formula that we use all the time, so like they can withdraw, withstand heat and washing in all of this and is sanitary. And then come the Internet. People now have access to safe ways to incorporate these kids and like ethical ways to bring them about. Whereas in history that's what we didn't have. We didn't have that education.

Even hearing you say it, like else, everything sounds so stinky and unsafe.

Surely people are.

Getting big dizzy from all of this, yeah, nassively, So like I mean you talk about, yeah.

How did people get rid of thrash in the day?

I once could not get rid of thrash for like six months, and I like how people.

Would die from it? Really?

Yeah from thrush?

Yeah yeah, what a ship way to die.

But like the small ways that people died because of, like you know, sexual play and everything is really insane. Like back in the time. I'm not quite on the same thing of frush, but they had to introduce laws in the eighteenth century about about strangulation, erotic strangulation because so many people were dying from being struck.

Really, I thought that was a new thing.

No, no, because this isn't the time where they used to hang criminals, and one person reported that the criminals all seem to get hard ons as soon as they are being hung, and this thing go on like, oh, it will cure my impotence if I get into strangulation, and so brothels started offering strangulation as an option and laws had to end up being introduced because so many people died from it. But even the deaths didn't stop people from wanting to get strangled.

Is that is there a proven fact that getting strangled does make you or is that just not now?

No, But I mean there is a thing about like blood rushing, so it does happen in some cases, and even in one where someone died and went to court in the criminal trial, they even say like, oh, but he did get briefly hard just before he died, and so people caught on. They're like, oh it works. Just gotta make sure we cut him down quickly.

Like yeah, you hear about all that stuff about how you tie you choke yourself and have a wake, and like, I've never done it.

I've never done it, but I've heard it a lot. And I actually counted to crime documentary very recently about a guy who died. He was a famous director in Hollywood. Yeah, recently he died from it in a hotel room and they were like, is it suspicious, but he had like he was all tied up in like this sex position.

I don't know.

Yeah, see, I think think one of the best things about having sex education and why it's so important is that otherwise we would just be like we were back in history and just hanging ourselves to try and feel pleasure, whereas now you can go on Google and you can be like, how do I safely engage in strangulation play? And like one of the main things is that you never touch your you don't never block off the air

Of your I go lower yeah, lower, yeah.

Lower is good, and then hand pressure and so there's little things like that, and that's why hashtag education.

I love some education.

I mean, this whole episode has been very educational for me.

I fly like I've got a wealth of knowledge.

I'd be really impressed with Matt's history facts.

Well, shout out to my mom and my grandma because they're like full historians. They like, oh, I love you. True the time they've passed it down to me.

I love history, but yeah, I feel bad.

I said to Matt the start of the episode, you know one thing, and then he started like here's the facts kept.

Coming and I was like, okay, I'm going to give not an honorary history degree.

I actually bestow you with an A plus. Today I'm on an air.

No, you can an A plus for your Segway.

Shameless fool.

Who doesn't.

It's been so lovely having you on the show. Thank you so much for coming in. We've been meaning to do this for a while and finally we've got to do it. We hope you guys enjoyed this episode.

Thanks a lot, Thank you, thank you for coming on having me