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I want the fairy Tale, I want the Prince Charming.
She how do I put this? Isn't a fan of my kissing.
Style boyfriend and girlfriend for about twelve hours. He's in a trash bin. He's non recyclable.
Catching them up.
I love being love. I love love.
On today's episode of Where's Your Head At, we are very excited to be able to spend some time with shantell On.
Award winning sexologist.
Shantale is the author of the best selling book The Sex Edge You Never Had, and the host of the Sex Therapy Audible original.
We can't wait to ask Chantelle or your juicy questions and find out what being a sexologist entails stay tuned. Where's Your Head At is a podcast that talks all things relationships, breakups, reality TV, trending shows, and everything in between.
This is your new go to destination for laughs, gossip, intimate details, advice and much more.
Hi Chantelle, Why Hello?
Welcome to Where's your Head At? And first of all, where's your head?
Why at? Where am I right now? I mean I'm quite jet lagged actually because I just got back from Europe. Oh not yesterday, but the day before. So I've been up quite early this morning. But I'm happy. I'm happy to be back at work and kind of getting into the rhythm.
Yeah, and I've seen on your socials you've been doing some egg freezing before you went away.
Can you talk us through that?
Yeah, so it feels like a lifetime ago. Now how long ago? Was it? Like three and a half weeks? So I have done two rounds of egg freezing now. The first round was filmed on a TV show called Big Miracles that was last year, And I did it because I have a lot of young people coming into my office and they're kind of rushing out of like healthy relationships and getting into relationships that may be more viable to kind of have a family with or like that.
I don't know, like this biological clock that's ticking for a lot of patients of mine. But also there's a lack of awareness around like fertility and where you're at, like in your fertility journey as well, and if you're going to have some challenges. So I kind of thought, I can't keep talking about people egg freezing if I actually don't know much about the process. So I did it for the show, and the first round that I did was quite seamless, and I am I have polcistic ovaries,
and I got so many eggs. I got forty eggs out in my first round, which is like like four times a normal amount. Yeah, it was crazy. And then because of that, I thought, well, I'll do one more round and then I should have a lot of eggs that I can donate as well, because it's very hard to find egged owners in Australia. People are really tighter. They're like, yeah, they're biological material, So for me, I'm not. I'm like, how amazing to be able to give the
gift of life to people. So I did another round a couple of weeks ago, and to be honest, the second round was pretty brutal for me. But I'm definitely feeling like my body is getting back to normal now, which is awesome.
That's incredible that you are willing to do that for so many people, like to give you know, a couple of the chance at having a baby.
That must like that's crazy.
Yeah, it's exciting.
Yeah.
So you didn't go through the egg freezing process for yourself to freeze them for further down the track, you did it for research?
You're saying, No, it's not for research, not at all. No, it's too So the first first one was for it is all like, obviously they're my eggs. I get to keep them. The ones I don't use, I donate them. But it's a combination of things. It's for educating people, it is. Yeah, maybe it is a little bit about research as well. For sure, it's about my futility journey, but it's also about helping other people create their own families as well.
Yeah.
I went to the Guided Colleges actually recently and I'm thirty one, and he basically said to me, like, you really should think about freezing your eggs, and it kind of caught me off guard, Like it was I don't know, you get to thirty one and you just don't expect that even to be a conversation with a random guynecologist, and I just felt very caught off guard. So I think it must be how is the process of getting to actually you know, getting there?
Yeah, well, so thirty one, you're you're in your like prime fertile age. But also, like, egg freezing is not a guarantee, right, it is definitely a safety blanket, but it's not a guarantee because even though like my eggs might be healthy, doesn't mean that they're going to survive the process of freezing and unfreezing. Doesn't mean that my partner's sperm is going to be healthy. You know, it's there's so many factors to consider also environmentally as well.
But I think for us, like I'm thirty two years old. Once you get to the age of thirty five, you're considered geriatric and you're actually not allowed to donate eggs after the age of thirty five. Your eggs are over the age of thirty five. Yeah, so isn't it crazy? But where whereas I'm like, I'm still so young, I'm.
We are I guess like biologically speaking, we're kind of getting to that age where our body is going, yeah, well we're you know, the quality of our eggs is going to start changing as well.
Because we're all born with the amount of eggs that we're ever going to have, and then each month we shed a certain amount and one usually or maybe two if you're like prone to twins or more will be I guess provided to meet with sperm and to possibly create a baby when you get your period.
Yeah. So I love that even just hearing you say, like to if you're like the twins thing, like, I just don't like think about that.
Yeah, I mean I've never really thought about the egg process for women at all and how it's going into freezing in thirty five seeing so young to be like they're not competent.
Eggs, Well, it's not a guarantee that they're not competent. It's just like there's a possibility, yeah, that the quality is going to be a lot lower. And it's not just for people who are menstruating, which is I guess what you call women. Bet a lot of people you know who don't identify as I also manstraight. But for people who you know have sperm as well. It is kind of like fifty to fifty in a way, or like forty forty and then twenty percent external factors as well.
Yeah, well, look, Chantal, you are a sexologist, so we want to talk.
All things sexology.
I guess my first question for you is when does someone usually consult you for sex advice? Like what is going on with them that they need to kind of hit you up or booking an appointment.
I look, I think we will all have questions about sex at some point, no matter what age we are or gender or orientation. But I would say, like my main demographic for my clinic, because I run a latch clinic in Australia, I would say that usually between like eighteen and forty five, it would be the kind of range.
And that's when maybe like around eighteen is like figuring out more around how to have pleasure, and maybe if there's some challenges around performance anxiety or learning more about your body or your menstrual cycles, maybe it's learning more about boundaries, concent body autonomy, Maybe there's painful sex conditions involved that I guess would be the kind of concerns I would see for that age range. Whereas when we get towards our kind of mid twenties to like mid forties,
that's about having more fun. Maybe it's about long term relationships. Maybe it's about being single for the first time and you know, navigating like how to be single and how to have like more casual interactions as well. But yeah, I think in longer term relationships we would see like difficulties with desire, maybe some challenges around orgasm or premature ejaculation or rectile dysfunction. So to be honest, it's it's really when you have a question or concern that you
don't know how to find the answer to. I think all of us need to see a sexologist at some point, myself included. And I'm just think that, you know, it's actually quite like a lot of us are having sex, or if we're not having sex, maybe we want to be having more sex. So that's where someone like myself would come in.
Talk us through how you become a sexologist. You have to study to get a PhD.
Like what is it like, No, you just got to like sex? Oh?
Really? Just no, I don't think I should be given advice to feople.
Look, no, look there are It's an interesting one because it's an unregulated profession in Australia. There are a lot of people who are online at the moment who are saying they are certified sex experts or certified sexologists and they have done like a I don't know, like a certificate from like an online learning platform which isn't actually valid.
You have to go through university. Usually you come from like a psychology, counseling, medical or scientific background or like health kind of background, and then you have to go on and do your master's degree. So I did psychology and then I did my Masters of Science in medicine and I specialize in sexual medicine. But then I also did a sexology degree when I lived in Amsterdam as well, and then trained with the European Society of Sexual Medicine.
So not everyone does that amount of education. But like typically if you are going to see a sexologist, you should be looking at their qualifications and going do they have a background if you're seeing them for therapy, to have a background in therapy counseling, of psychology, have they done a master's degree in sexual medicine and just yeah, don't always look at people's titles because people love to title themselves, especially on social media.
What made you want to study the sexual side of psychology and that like what made you attracted you from a better term of words to that side of it.
The sexual side of psychology. Well, I think that. I think like sexual medicine is such an interesting area in general, and it's not just psychology. It's biology, it's interpersonal relationships, it's youerious sociocultural surroundings, so your culture where you grew up, the notions of the country that you live in, or you know, your religion, et cetera. I think for me, psychology was like nice, and I've always had an interest in people and I've always wanted to help people, and
it didn't have to be sexology. You know. I used to work in like drug and alcohol rehabilitation, and then I also worked in like research for at the Royal Children's Hospital here as well. So I think wherever I felt stimulated enough to be enthusiastic to get out of bed and get to work, that for me was like good enough. And then they just kind of came a point where I was like, like, I love talking about sex. Sex is super fun for me. My background is Dutch.
My family's super open when we talk about sex, and of realized so many people didn't have that privilege. And I saw a lot of my friends taking risks when it came to their sex lives or you know, misogyny, like these notions of misogyny. This is like when American Pie was like at its prime and we were learning about I don't know, like sex in all the wrong ways.
And I think as a fem person, I remember just thinking, Oh, it's something like I have to do because that's what's expected of me, and I have to be wild and crazy and we all kind of learned through porn. And I just thought, like, there's so much more to this, Like it's such a complicated topic. Why aren't we talking
about it more? And then I also read Esaperel's book It's called Meeting in Captivity, and that book really spoke about like complexities in relationships and nuances of desire and long term relationships, and I thought, Wow, there's so much for me to learn that I know I could be learning really for the rest of my life on this topic. So I'm sitting in going into it and that's why I kind of yeah. And my mum also was like, you'd be a really good sex ologist, so that's how I kind of got into it.
I love that you got her blessing.
I love it.
Do your family and friends ask you for or like kind of rely on you for like free advice and consultations. I feel like if you're one of my besties, I'd be like, Okay, I need all of the info.
Actually, like not at all, Like none of them talk to me about the sex lives at all. No. I think they're just like because at the end of the day, it's my job, and like sometimes they'll be like, oh I need help, or like, oh, you know, my partner wants to try this. So I don't know how to do it or what would be a toy that you would recommend. But I would say when people see me, they like my friends see me, they don't think of
me as hunt and sex ologists. I'm just chantal shanty to them, So I'm yeah, I would say though, maybe, Like my best friend was saying to me the other day, my best friend's also my manager, and she was like, I don't think you realize how much you do help people with their overall health and well being because I'm always like, oh, like, maybe you should look at this or like, ah, if you've got a lump, like, probably
need to check that out. Or they'll be like what does this you know medication mean or what does if someone has got this personality disorder? What would that mean for their relationship? So I think maybe without actually like saying the words sex, I help a lot of my friends and family out in that area, but I wouldn't say they're coming to me directly. I also say to them like I don't talk to like I don't see
my friends as patients. They can see one of my staff instead, because otherwise there's like a bias there that I is not healthy for therapy.
Yeah, what does a regular day in the clinic look like for you? And I guess, like what's the most fulfilling or awarding part of a day helping someone? Like what really like fills your cup? What type of problem?
So I don't really have regular days in the clinic anymore. I think if we'd spoken about five years ago, I would have been able to tell you if I worked like nine am to nine pm and it was back to back sessions. Now, because I've got over twenty staff members, it's like my day is super varied. I also work, you know outside of the clinic with media and consulting and you know, doing kind of projects that are educating
people on a larger level. But if I was to go into the clinic, like, actually, maybe i'll explain like my day today. So for example, today I work up at about six point thirty and then I kind of like went through my slack and I spoke to my EA, and then I kind of looked at all the emails coming through for the clinic and allocated each email to a different therapist or each person kind of making an inquiry to a different therapist. And then I delegate tasks to my EA, and then I get my ass kicked
by my manager. She's like, you need to be doing this. I need this content. You need to do media commentary on these five articles, et cetera. And then like I've had a sauna, I've had a shower, and then now we've got a podcast. I guess a bit later this week, I'll see some patients and I only see patients pro bonos,
so people who can't afford to pay for therapy. And that's because I have that privilege, because I earn money, I guess through sponsorships, and consulting, and then I also see a few other patients that are probably quite challenging, like heavy medical conditions, cancer, or like psychiatric concerns or narcissistic personality disorder patients. And then what else am I doing today? Gosh, I've just got a few meetings this afternoon.
I know I need to catch up with three of my staff this week, and then I'm traveling into state twice as well this week. So I have a like, that's a normal week for me. But if you were one of my therapists working in my office, my team make their own schedules around their lifestyle so that they can have a good quality of life. They want to go to the gym, they can do that. They want to take their kids to school, they can do that.
So they make their own schedules, and I would say they get in their accessions typically about fifty minutes, and you do about ten minutes to kind of wind down. Maybe you write some notes, maybe you take twenty minutes a half an hour. It depends on each therapist in their preference, and you make treatment plans, you refer to
other specialists as well. You make sure that you're I guess on top of the latest research, but also you're looking at doing supervision with other specialists, so you can get outside opinions on maybe a particular PA for a concern that you might need some different opinions on, or different types of advice or specialty on.
That's amazing that you do pro bono work. I think that's really amazing. How do people like reach out to you to kind of get this assistance.
Usually they'll come to the clinic and they'll say like I can't afford it, or once in a while they'll I'll put out like a call out on my social media for people and they can apply. Also, if we have like student therapists coming through, that's a really good opportunity because then patients get like a really discounted session, so instead of like you know, over one hundred and fifty dollars, it's like fifty dollars or ninety dollars instead
for a session, So they're still getting the advice. And all the students are supervised by myself as well, so they're kind of getting the advice that I would give, but by proxy through through the student instead. But I would say, like the pro bono patients come through because they're usually referred by a different specialist to me that I I've got quite a good connection with.
Yeah, you were saying before, how a lot of homes find it taboo to talk about sex in the house with their kids and parents. What's your opinion on teaching it more in schools to the kids so they have a better understanding of it, because, like you said, a lot of people learn through porn and that gives them a warped opinion on what sex actually is.
I mean, I'm so pro it. Why wouldn't you be. I think we all need to have as much education as possible, and there are some really great organizations providing sex education in school. It's becoming way more popular, and we can see through advocates like Chanel Contos for example, talking about consent and some really amazing people who were pushing for a better sex education in school, that we're
getting to a better place. Obviously there's still a long way to go, but yeah, obviously very I learned, like.
A lot of Australians did, I think in Melbourne, especially through a giraffe.
In a van. Yeah, I didn't get that. I went to a Catholic school. We weren't allowed to talk about.
And the giraft would come out of the wall and be like, don't do drugs. It's is sex when you think about it's actually kind of creepy.
I actually was born in the UK and we just basically I mean I'm talking from my personal experience at my.
School, but we had like zero sex education.
And a bit more forward over there.
Nothing nothing at all.
So it's actually like in the UK, there's not a huge amount of like there's a lot of like qualified sexologists there. They're doing a really good job with educating people like myself or health practitioners. But I think it's quite also very difficult to become a sexologist in the UK as well. But sex education I think is quite similar to Australia.
Yeah, what's too young to teach them? Do you reckon?
Yeah? I think that it depends on what you're looking at. I think you can talk about boundaries, and you can talk about asking for consent at quite a young age, like from the age of four, and you can start learning about how you feel within your body where like places that you can touch or what pleasure feels like, but also like parts of your body that should not
be touched and that are just for you. You can also learn about different types of families as well, and you can learn about having two mums or two dads or having a community raise you. So there's so much that you can learn from a younger age that I think we kind of should be bringing it forward, considering like a lot of young people are having their sexual debuts a lot earlier around like eleven twelve as well.
I think my mom was very good at teaching us that sort of stuff from a young age, like the consent and what's not, like all that sort stuff. My mum was all over that from like around American four or five.
And your family's very open. So your family is very open and my family's very not. Come from like two very different backgrounds. And then Chantelle said that your family was also very open when talking about sex. It's so interesting that everyone has a different experience, like almost like a starting point, right.
Yeah, I mean, my family's open, but they're also conservative at the same time.
So, yeah, what's something that you've learned through being a sexologist that you wish maybe you'd known sooner?
Oh my god, like everything, I think that I just I think that it would have been nicer kind of when we were younger to be reminded that there's no one size fits all. I think as well, I've learned a lot more about how to remain curious with people, because I think we kind of can become know it alls, and we think that we know so much about like
the world that we live in and other people. But every day I'm learning something new about people that you know, I spend hours and hours and hours of time learning about people will always have the ability to shock and surprise you. And I think that as well can be carried over into relationships. I think that we can become
very complacent. I think that we can also think that sex is something that should be coming naturally to all of us quite easily, we should always be horny, and that it's like not something that we necessarily need to work on. But again, like that's not the case. It's it's a relationship that you need to work on with yourself and with another person ongoing for the rest of your life.
Then what would you say to someone that's listening and they're in a relationship and it's a long term and they're really hit a dry spell, what would be some advice for them in that situation.
I would say, like, don't put it off, Like, don't put off working on it or communicating about it. I would say, butt your like any anger or frustration to the side, because it's not going to get you laid either. So like, come from a place of kindness of love.
Really practice empathy as well. If you're having any mental health concerns, if you're suffering from anxiety or depression, or you find that you know that you're bickering a lot, address that first, Like lead the way, don't always expect your apartment to be the one that has to change, because you both have to change at the end of
the day. And I think we get like all the time I'm hearing about blah blah blah didn't do this, or blah blah blah didn't do that, or they don't want me anymore, or it's just like you're the only one that can change yourself, So go forward and do
it and hopefully the other person will follow you. But also like lean into the amount of available resources there are out there, Like there's so many great sex experts who are being very generous putting their time and effort into social media content or providing courses or like even answering DMS from people who are not paying them. You know, lean into the amount of resources that are healthy and that are out there these days and do something about it, don't put it on the back burner.
Are there any topics that I guess if you had a client that you might find uncomfortable to talk about with, Like, is there anything that kind of would cross your boundaries?
Yeah, there's always things that are particular to you as a therapist that you might not want to deal with. For some people, it'll be like a paraphilia. For some people would be like sexual assault or you know, I guess practices that might be illegal or in evolving minus. I think for myself, I don't put up with people who are rude or engage in like I guess, practices like you know, who talk in a way that is unethical or slur or talk about people in a negative way.
I don't pout up with racism, for example, or ableism. Of course, I'm like patient and I will call it out. But you don't at the end of the day, as a therapist have to continue therapy with someone just because you're a there therapist. You have a mutual right to break up with someone as well. And I think that if you're not enjoying seeing that patient and you're not enjoying helping them on that journey and facing their challenges together,
then it's not really going to work that well. And there's so many other practitioners out there who are going to do a great job that you might necessarily like not be enthusiastic about.
Anna and me had a conversation the other day actually on the phone. It wasn't on the podcast, but we were talking about like if your partner has a kink, do you remember we're talking about it, and like we're saying, like I am personally I'm up for whatever my partner would be into, Like I'm open to whatever kinks they have, but and I was sort of saying, like there's some stuff that she wouldn't try. What's some advice to someone's that partner is really like like something that you're not
into that, Like is there any like middle ground? What sort of tips do you give those people?
Yeah, I think it's about like, first of all, thinking about why. I also think it's like you can never listen to someone talk about their kink and like yuck it, like make them feel ashamed of it. Yeah, we don't want to yuck some or something that someone finds yummy, but we have to kind of understand why they would be curious about exploring that thing. Is it a no for a now or is it a no for forever?
When you're saying no to exploring that, is it because you have some internalized shame or some fears around that kink as well? Or maybe if it's not for you, would you be open to the other person exploring it elsewhere, maybe like with the sex worker for example, or maybe if you have like someone join you and they can you know, like practice with that person. Or are there alternatives that would be like I guess able to maybe replicate that kink but not actually like stretch your boundaries
too much. Or is it something that you can both just like go all right, like we love each other, it's not on the cards. Let's like, is it a make or break for this relationship?
Yeah, it's actually pretty good that we've got you to I want you to fact check this comment. I remember saying this on the podcast a while ago. I actually heard it on Criminal Minds that kinks come from an inner What was it someone's inner fear or something and that transpires into their sexual kinks. Is there any truth in that comment? Or am I spitting lies on the podcast that I heard on Criminals?
No, it's just it's way more complex than that. And like kings are like not like kings are really common. So it's like we can't go around like diagnosing all
these people with like trauma and like fear. Like it's like, actually a lot of people are excited about their kinks, so you know, I don't think all of them are coming from a place of fear for sure, but a lot of it's also like conditioning too, write and you can actually recondition yourself from a lot of kinks if that's something that you want to do as well.
Yeah, what's some of the most common kinks?
I would say, like BDSM, for example, A lot of people are into golden showers a lot more than we probably realize. I would say, like I even like light to things like sexting or like videos that kind of stuff is really hot. Talking dirty. I think a bit of like domb subplay is really normal. Like, yeah, Feet's like a really big one as well. Yeah, for sure, feet is like massive, Like look at Only Fans. If I wasn't a therapist, I'd definitely go there be so fun.
So many people say that. So many my friends are like, I have amazing feet. My feet should be on fucking only fans.
And I posted something with their foot one time, and I was like, wouldn't be posting that for free?
Not a mis day and age.
I guess when someone asks you a relationship question, do you notice the red flags in their relationships straight away? Or do you kind of need to delve deep into their relationship more to uncover like really deep issues.
You kind of have to like dive a little bit deeper. Yeah, Like you can always call out what you can see, but you are getting like one side of things as well, And I think often you know, to take a backward step and look at like the whole picture is probably necessary. And also like come from again a real place of empathy, Like if you're having these troubles, what's going on for your partner as well, what's your communication? Like how are you actually talking to them about these concerns too? So
it's it's very complex. Of course you can pick up red flags, yeah, but does that mean that you are doing the right thing? By calling them out. Not sure, because we all have different bases for our relationships. Some people never fight, some people bicker all the time, but that's their way of communicating, Like there is no one size fits all.
Well, it would be your biggest red flag that you would see, not for a professional thing, but actually in relationships, what would be your biggest red flag?
Such a good question. Criticism and lack of accountability would be something that I would say is a major red flag when someone can't say I contributed in.
Like that.
We're all snow. We all do it. We all do it, like it like I do it too. We are sometimes so caught up in our own emotions that we don't recognize. But if it's like an ongoing thing, or like when you someone like and what did you do in that scenario? Or what role did you play there? And they're like what do you mean? And then that's kind of when you go, okay, well, like maybe they need to be a little bit of self reflection there as well.
That's three versions of a story. There's yours in the truth, isn't there? Do you determine the truth somewhere between your patience or do you just take it on what it is.
I just reflect back to them and they can make their own mind up about what it is. But I'm very happy to like give an outside perspective and go Do you realize when you're talking in this way that you're not actually taking accountability for your role here?
Yeah, I have a question, and it's I think, like, when I think about myself going to a sexologist, I think I would feel very intimidated. I don't know why, but I guess, like my question is, what advice would you give to someone who does want to see a sexologist, but maybe they do feel a little bit intimidated by.
I don't think chantal looks intimidating to.
Go talk to you, haven't know. Some people have said yes, I would say that there are so many sex experts out there who are qualified and who are really good at their jobs. Like any therapist, you have to find the person that matches with you. But at the end of the day, we choose this career because we want to help people and we want to create a safe space for you to be able to work on your concerns.
But I also think, like I've definitely like met some sexologists that I probably wouldn't want to see and I know there's other people who have seen me and gone sin tell's not my cup of tea either. Like, just remember that doing one session with one person is not like, doesn't have to be the end result for you. There is always going to be someone out there that you can find that will actually work really well for you and will help you reach your goals.
I think that's good advice all around. Come to psychologists in general. I know a lot of people, like a couple of mates that go to one and they click with them. I'm not going back. It's it's not for me, And I'm like, well, try another person to see how you go. You're going to find someone that you click with and you can talk to.
Great goodbye.
A lot of people say that dating in twenty twenty three is so hard, so challenging. People like I know a lot of my girlfriends say there's no good people out there anymore to date.
Do you think that people.
Make it hard for themselves? What advice would you give them?
It's so interesting? Okay, So I am really of the perspective that there are so many people out there in the world, but I think that we can be too shy or not forward enough. I don't think we back ourselves enough when it comes to dating. I also do think that it is a little bit rough sometimes. For sure, dating can be challenging, Like I think the dating culture in Australia really sucks, to be honest, and I'm an
ambassador for Bumble. I'm working constantly on how to make dating more accessible, more fun like, and how to kind of help people have good dating experiences. But yeah, it can be so bloody tough. But I don't know, Like I kind of always think that if you put out into the world that you're looking for something, it will
find you. And I think if you're able to learn how to have a conversation with someone, whether it be on an app or like out in a bar, like for example, I have made like in the past when I've been dating, Like I've made some great connections just by like noticing how people are behaving, or like being in the line for the bathroom and saying to someone like, like, what's on your mind if they're like if you see them,
like focusing on something. Just being aware of how people are moving through the world is going to be a real superpower for you. I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily like the most social person, but I have friends that are extremely social and so balancing if you're like dating, like irl, balancing out the way that you, I guess come across in social situations and your friends as well is really important. Making sure that you're open. I when I go out with my friends, like I don't like,
I'm just like quite insular. So I talk to my friends unless there is like a random person that's sitting in like that I like the look of, or like that looks like an interesting person that's sitting in a corner like that ends up being the person that I'll
talk to for the party or whatever. And obviously I'm in a relationship now, But if I think about it in a dating perspective, like I have had friends that are super talkative, and they can have like like a whole group of people absolutely enamored with them, and they
can help you. Those people can help you create bonds with other people or be like oh yeah, like you know what, like that likes are coming and coming too, like you guys each other, like you know, I really believe in the power of also like friendship too, And that's also one thing that I talk about so much in my job. Sorry, my dog's having a little sniff around. Yeah, he would go back up again.
You'll get to distract.
He's like so sigmy as all of them. I really like to believe in, Like, I know, it's so funny. Okay, I'm gonna put him down because we're going to just laugh for the rest.
Yeah, I'll get to concentrate.
It's so funny. But I believe in like you need to have healthy friendships as well. And I think absolutely, like we're in our thirties now, we're kind of all going through these stages where we're out growing a few of our friendships too, or on different journeys or parts as well, And I don't know, like it kind of sometimes I think fuck it, Like it sucks as an adult that you have to continuously work so bloody hold on all of these relationship dynamics, but it does pay
off in the long run. I also think if you're not finding it like where you are, like in your hometown or in like your usual circles, like move outside of those circles if you like, if you have the ability to go elsewhere, maybe it's interstate, or maybe it's overseas. I go for it, but be as open as possible, like create the person that you want to be in
that scenario, you can be whoever you want. When you're dating and you really like, I just think you should go for the story to be honest, don't think about it so it can be your end all.
Yeah.
Absolutely, that's so many pluck twists as well when you do it like that.
Something that's going really viral at the moment is this kind of like phenomenon where they say that guys put women in three groups before they meet them, and that is the WiFi, the fun, or not interested.
What do you think of that?
I think women do it for men as well as much as the other way around.
I've literally never I don't know because I've never heard of this theory. Is it like on TikTok.
It's like a TikTok thing.
Yeah, okay, I don't actually know, but I guess like it makes sense. We kind of do that as well as from people when we're meeting others. We're like, yeah, okay, well not interested in that person for the long run, but it could be fun for like a night, right, So I get it. But I think all genders do it and all orientations do it. And I guess it
depends on what you're looking for. Like some people might not be looking for like a long term person, so maybe like, yeah, if you're looking for someone who's more casual, you're not going to be going for the person who's like wifey material. You're going for someone who's going to be up for like a good time for a period of time.
Right.
Also depends where you are mentally as well. Yeah, Like you could be in a place where you're not wanting to like, you know, settle down, so you're not really looking at that person.
Well.
Look, speaking of casual sex, Matt and I talk about this a lot, and that is that with casual sex, it's an exchange of energy.
What's your thoughts on this?
Can you have casual sex without getting attached? Or for people who do get very attached, how do they detach?
Yeah? I think you can. You have to be very self aware, right for casual sex, and you have to have it all laid out on the table prior to going into it. I think like, if you're just down for casual fun, you have to be very explicit, like do you want to have fun like hey, Like, I'm like, I would love to I don't know, have some fun with you or play around. I'm not looking for something
right now. There's a lot of people in open relationships to these days who are like more flexible and so I don't know, So like, I think we're learning a
lot more about how to communicate those needs prior. If you're not good at doing that, you need to come up with like a script on your phone and keep it in your notes so that you can like copy and paste it over and send it to that person, really outlining what you're looking for, you know, what your motivations are, why you like them, what you can offer
them as well. Like, if you're going into like casual sex, usually it's for pleasure, it's for validation, it's for affirmation, you know, it's for exploration, so like provide that stuff as well. I really hate hearing about people who I don't know who are like up for casual sex, but they don't want to put in the hard yards to maintain a casual like sex relationship. They think it's just like, oh, it's casual, so we should just we should just do it and like move out, Like you have to have
like a bit of friendship there as well. There has to be some banter and some care and for that person. And I think lot of people can get kind of lazy. You know, absolutely, I don't find that hot. I don't find that hot. I find communication hot and sexy.
I was about to say, if you're just having casual sex asign you want to be able to chat to them before and af star and like, you know, I think if you don't get a drink with them, then if you can't sit and have a drink with them.
Or a coffee or whatever it is, Yeah, that's point, it's safeking with them.
Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't.
Man, What advice would you give to someone who might be really inexperienced, like maybe they're still a virgin, or they've had maybe only a small handful of sexual experiences and they kind of feel like it's just like a big overwhelming kind of experience to even meet someone now because they feel so far behind.
I think if they can afford to see a sexologist, that's a really good place to go. But also like start reading some books too, or listening on audible. You can buy my book. That's always a nice one. That's
like sex ed for adults. But there are some really great resources out there where you can just learn them more about the body, but also like how people interact and then like find that confident friend or like find someone that you can rely on who's going to give you, I guess, honest feedback, but also take care of you while you are on this journey as well, and you will help empower you to feel more confident and be the best version of yourself while you are dating and
while you are exploring. But also who's not going to like judge you or make you feel ashamed for your practices or things that you don't know much about.
Yeah, so you wouldn't recommend just going out there and experimenting.
Yeah, I think that's fine too, as long as you're being kind and like considering your own boundaries and that other person's boundaries, Like go for it. Like experimentation is the best way to figure out how things are going to go. But if you can't communicate or ask for consent or like you know, give consent, then you need to do a little bit of work prior to that.
Because we are seeing a rise of like kind of unsafe sex practices happening in casual dating, like choking for example, or like you know, maybe activities that other person's not that comfortable with, but it wasn't spoken about prior. I think you do need to actually like really invest in yourself so that you can be a better lover for someone else.
Absolutely with going to an appointment with you, do you spread as far as like talking about tantric sex or is that like a whole different realm.
I'm not specialized in tantra, so I don't talk about it myself, but a few of my staff members are like very invested in tantra. Some are invested in like shabari, which is like Jeffetly bondage, roape bondage. Some have done like more body work practices as well. So I tend to myself specialize in like medicine, medical conditions, and like complex trauma, whereas some of my other staff members wouldn't
be able to talk about those things. So that's also why I have a team, so we can all work together and if one of my like, for example, I've had some patients that I've worked with for a couple of years and then we've kind of reached like an end of the road for what I'm able to give them as a therapist, And I go, why don't you go talk to Jasmine a little bit more about I don't know, like sex stuff and parenting or like why
didn't you talk about orgasms with Clark? So each team member has their own specialty.
Yeah, how do people keep things spicy in their relationships?
So I think if you want to keep it spicy again, kind of back to what I spoke about before, remain curious, ask questions. Don't assume that you always know what your partner's going to want, because as we grow, you know, we might become interested in some different things. The sexual person that you were ten years ago is probably very different to the sexual person you are now. Definitely don't be shy of like sex, toys or games. I think that's really important. I think also like checking in with
your partner. Is there anything that you wanted to try that we haven't been able to do just yet or you want to learn more about. I also think like change up the time, time and location. A lot of people get used to having sex, like Okay, we'll have it just before we go to sleep, where it's like I could not think of anything worse than like I'm so tired.
Someone and that was their like corniest time, and I'm like, I've got my retainer and I'm done.
This is not happening.
Yeah, cute for you, but it's a negative three degrees outside. It's not happening.
To be fair, though, they can probably switch me pretty quickly. The retainer comes out and goes on the bedside tables.
Actually, that's like super important. Don't expect it to always be spontaneous. The responsive side of sex is very important, which is what you're talking about where you're like, no, I'm not into it. Oh, okay, you're touching me here, Okay, I'm wearing.
I love I love spontaneous sex. That that's like something that gets me going. I've always said that that's I really like that. But then males are more spontaneous like spontanee, don't they over females or is that just a generation?
No, that's a huge generalization for sure. No. No, No, I think like I think that's like testosterone base. So like when you wake up in the morning as like a masculine person like or as a penis owner, you
have more testosterone in the morning. So often like people are hornier in the morning if they have a penis, whereas like for us, with our menstrual cycles, like our hormones fluctuate so much that we have to be very aware of what's happening with our menstrual cycles in order to be able to know, Okay, like what time of the month are we going to be hornier, When are
we going to be more tired? When is it better for like morning sex or shower sex or late night sex, or should we do it on a Sunday ovo Like, actually, just being aware of your individual preferences is like really important.
But you know, we have to have a good amount of maintenance sex in order to be able to have spontaneous sex, especially after two years in a relationship, because the first two years eighteen months to two years is like when all your owen dolphins are flying and you're like, I'm in love, like I can't believe we found each other, and then all of that dies off and you have to go, oh my god, like do I actually really like this person? I'm like, can I choose this person?
Every day you come out of that like intensive time, and then you have to switch into more responsive sex, which is what you were talking about where you've got your retainer in, and you're like, I'm not horny. I don't want to Okay, you're rubbing. Like, okay, you're rubbing here. Now it works a little bit more. I'm going to move it up. Now I'm responding to your touch. So that type of sex is super super important over all life, like the whole life cycle.
It makes sense. So I come home from gym, I'm pretty ready to go around that time because my test off stones flaring up.
Yeah, how many times a week should people be having sex?
What's a good number.
There's not really a number, and I think it's unfair for anyone to preach a number. It's it just it doesn't work because like what if your partner lives overseas, or what if your partner has done well? What if having it like even once a year is like yeah, like we had our really good session and that made us feel really bonded. It's individual preferences. Some people want it every day, some people want it twice a day,
some people want it like twice a month. It's it's up to you, and it's about the quality over the quantity.
What happens when two partners don't kind of connect on that someone wants it all the time, someone doesn't want it.
Can that work? How do you make that work?
I think that's pretty common. I think we're all going to have someone who has like a higher sex drive in a relationship than the other and you have to find your middle ground or you have to talk about some kind of compromises that you can make and how you can make it the most fun possible for both
of you. I think that's also why we're seeing more of a rising people talking about their open relationships as well, because they're like, like, you can love someone but not desire them, or you can desire someone and not love them. But if you have them combined, do they need to necessarily, you know, always be on part Not exactly if you have so much love in your relationship, but maybe your sexual preferences are different, are you able to separate the
two as well? And maybe can you have your needs met in different ways?
Yeah?
Do you think that that's something that you could personally do be in an open relationship?
Again, it's not really about me, it's about the listeners. So I think they can maybe reflect on themselves and think about is it something they would want to do, and maybe educate themselves as much as possible, Like you know, do I know much? I think I've seen such a rise in people talking about how they're polyamorous or they're ethically non monogamous, but they have no idea what that
actually means. And a lot of the time I see people who are just not able to invest in any type of relationship with someone else, whether it be casually getting to know them or more long term getting to know them or on a deeper level. So I think the rise of talking about it it's happening, but actually doing it in the proper way is another topic altogether.
People just watch tiktoks and think they know they.
Make up their own version.
Yeah, okay, so yeah, Chanta, thank you so much.
This has been a really insightful interview.
We've loved having you on the podcast and great chatting to.
The next time show us the snack dog.
That's in his element with the sausage Jugan.
Thanks so much for having me