Matt, are you ready for a night of fun?
I'm always down for fun. Now now you know that.
Well, we hear two million listens this year and to celebrate, we're going on tour.
That we are.
So on Thursday the seventh of September, we're going to be in Melbourne, Wednesday.
The thirteenth of September, we're going to be in Brisbane.
And Thursday twenty first of September we're going to be in Sydney.
We're going to have special guests, prizes and so much fun. So make sure you get your tickets in our show notes.
Bye see you're there.
I want the fairy Tale.
I want the Prince Charming.
She how do I put this? Isn't a fan of my kissing style.
Boyfriend and girlfriend for about twelve hours, he's in a trash bin.
He's non recyclable. Catching them up. I love being love, I love Love.
Where's Your Head At Is a podcast that talks all things relationships, breakups, reality TV, trending shows, and everything in between.
This is your new go to destination for life gossip, intimate details, advice, and much more.
Hi guys, welcome to Where's Your Head At?
Hello, thank you for having us.
Thanks guys, We've had a lot of technical difficulties this morning.
You guys have been.
Very good sport.
Thank you for that and thank you for coming on.
It gave us time to be late, but this was the first time I'm actually on time. Oh I know, I know.
Well, where's your head.
Out, guys, it's Monday morning. Yeah, I feel like so the technical difficulties probably making it even better, but you know, feeling good. I think excited for the week.
This is cool about you.
Guys have an awesome presence on TikTok. Your videos have gone like viral viral, like millions and millions and millions of likes and views. What made you get into TikTok?
Firstly, I think I've been doing TikTok since doing the lame dances were a things, So I never got into the dances, but when that was like what TikTok was was when I kind of started.
And I think I get to send lots of facets to me and I've always been like someone that likes to share that all openly and all the things, so I just kind of I didn't ever have like a niche. I guess when it came to TikTok. I would just share were friends center everything, and then yeah, I had like a few videos I guess go viral in the early days, and they weren't about like ADHD or anything.
They were just I guess, random ones. And then yeah, kind of fell in love with creating and yeah, then Barry just decided to start filming me in my chaoticness. So that's how our account started.
Our account started with the lies, and then it was just so odd, just building constantly, and then it.
Was just a hyper focus that they moved on from I go over this one, over this now.
So you guys do a lot of content on ADHD.
Both of you have ADHD. Do one of you have a talk us through that?
So I am the ADHD in the relationship and Barry is not.
So yeah, when did you find out you were diagnosed with ADHD?
So I was diagnosed. It was kind of like an official, unofficial diagnosis when I was really young. So I had a lot of behavioral issues growing up, and this was all before I actually started school. So I was diagnosed. My mom took me to the doctor at about three or four. She can't remember exactly when, but it was
around that age. And at that time, there was just such little awareness around how it presented in girls and then as well, I think there was a lot of shame around medicating your child in that sense, and I guess it's a mom as well. You're not going to medicate your kid if you don't know what it even is or what they're like medicating for. So that was like the only conversation. And obviously, being three or four,
I barely even remember that situation. I remember all the school changes, but yeah, so I was technically be diagnosed, but that conversation never nothing ever came from that conversation. I just grew up as a normal kid into teenage years and it wasn't until I actually graduated UNI, which we actually told this story yesterday on the podcast that we recorded. But yeah, I was in the kitchen one morning with my housemate and we had conversation after conversation,
and it would always happen this way. I would say, hey, what are you doing this morning? Or like what are you doing today? And she'd be like, yeah, I'm going to UNI bowl. I should tell me the whole spiel, and then two seconds later, so what are you up to today? Like blah, blah blah. What are you doing? And she's like, I'm going for UNI at this time, at this time, blah blah blah. And then I'll just be making my breakfast or something and then I'd be like, course,
so what time are you getting home this afternoon? What are your plans to do? And she's like, I'm sick of having the same conversation with you ten times every morning, and she's like, you need to like go to the doctor and get your head sorted. So I did, and that was actually when I ended up getting my adult diagnosis.
Wow. So yeah, like twenty four, I think.
I was like twenty yes, twenty four to twenty five. It was in twenty nineteen. COVID's got my head all over the shop, but yeah, it was.
Around that aid, So you lived twenty four years not knowing. Did you feel like you were different from everyone else? Did you feel like the way you were like and all that sort of stuff.
Yeah, one hundred percent. I think the masking was a really big thing for me, Like I always noticed that, And masking is exhausting if you kind of know what it is, but it's constantly feeling like you're having to suppress these parts of you to kind of fit the norm. And I think like that was just a very normal thing for me. And I think once I got my diagnosis in Barry and I call it the it was like the half stage. And once you get diagnosed, you
kind of sound like a broken record. But you're walking around the house and you're like, oh my god, that dooom pa, that's my ADHD and you're like, oh my god, like that's why every relationship has failed. Oh my god, that's why I had these patterns. And it's like you kind of just go through these moments and it's like, holy crap, Like I've masked, like you said, twenty plus years and I've just you know, tried to cope.
Basically Matt is currently going through that. Aha.
See, Like people are like, oh, you're using as an excuse. It's not an excuse reason why I did this, or like I was this behavior in this certain situation, or why you said, like there's different things that I've done my whole life.
It's interesting because the TikTok content on ADHD is so powerful. I think that's the reason that you even got diagnosed, and that I think just like one week.
Was just like I don't know.
Okay, so there's this, this.
And this, and I do it all because of ADHD and I've got most of the symptoms and like, you have to watch it.
And then he started sending me a million.
Videos and I was like, oh my god, what's happening, and he was.
He was.
Just for our listeners who maybe don't exactly know what ADHD is. Can you give a bit of a summary.
Yeah, I guess, like it's I can go down the I guess textbook definition. But I think the reason that you know that textbook definition hasnt worked for so long is because how it sounds on paper is so different to how it plays out in real life, right. And that's the thing is, like, you know, we've had this textbook definition of ADHD for such a long time, right, and so many people have still gone undiagnosed for so long.
And that's why people like yourself, Matt, are now seeing the videos seeing it play out in real life, seeing you know, videos like ours where they're actually seeing how it manifests in real life play out, and they're like, like, that's what ADHD is. So for me, I can you know, I can sit here and say, you know, ADHD is inattention, it's you know, hyperactivity, it's all of these little ticking the boxes of symptoms. But really I just think it goes so much deeper than that.
There's so much things that people wouldn't even understand, Like I don't know about you, like the the one is just the rollercoaster of emotion no one talks about, Like the slightest thing can like bring you down or blow you up. No one talks about that, you know what I mean.
Yeah, So emotional dysregulation. I think that's one of the biggest things that I mean, and really like it's barely even in the DSM, like as in the criteria of ADHD, it's like this, you know, emotional dysregulation. It's just like one word, but it's like what does that actually mean? And I think like basically people with ADHD experience emotions
far more intensely. And the way I like to describe it is like, for example, if Baron and I were in a car and we were someone here, he was driving and someone cut him off, he would kind of be like he'd initially go to have that road rage and like you know, stick the finger up or whatever and be like, oh, you, asshole, but a filter in his brain goes okay, probably not like let's just come.
This way too irrelevant right now, this is a way to irrelevant.
So he would just like, you know, this filter would pass. He'd be like okay, whatever, like asshole, it'd be calm. Whereas like me, I would be driving someone cuts me off. I don't have that filter, right, But it's not just that I don't have the filter. I then feel it more intensely. So my one hundred percent is like an average person's like fifty percent. That's not like quote unquote statistical, but like that's like the intensity. So someone cuts me off,
I don't have that filter. The it's not there. And that's like a prime example of the emotion aspect.
On the phone. The other day, someone cut me off and I started going nuts and I was like, I was like, where's my fucking tire eye? And I was like I was like looking all over my calf for the thing.
And I was like giving him this speech like let's just be the happiest.
I was mad. I was so fucking mad. I was searching under my seat because I put the higher irons, I switched the.
I'm going to take that out so you don't end up in jail.
I was ready, but I'm yeah, I feel like the same thing. But like the way I explained it is, say you get like a text message and it's not even a bad one. It could be something like, you know, I'm canceling plans tonight and like you were like, and then that just fucking ruins you for like an hour, like you're upset, but then you make a green light and then out of nowhere, you're fucking happy again. You
know what I mean. That's how I explained. It's just the littlest things make you, like doping levels go up and down.
Yeah, yeah, And that's that's the emotional dysregulation. Right. So when we think about that, we think that it means, like, you know, it's always about negative emotions, but it can happen with the happy emotions too. Is it like when you feel happy? And this is why when we fall in love or when you know, we get into relationships, you feel them so much more intensely and it's like, oh my god, they're the ones. It's crazy, and it's like you just go through this whirlwind. So it happens
with the happy emotions. So much as it does with the sad and the angry emotions as well.
Yeah, that you fall in love very aha, that this whole interview is just going to be in one big.
Aha Sarry for you? How is it?
I mean, if you're in the car and there's a road rage incident happening, how do you kind of like, what's what's your go to plan in those situations?
It's like I drive.
Road rage and everything like that, but nothing's really happening.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think, as you said, Matt, thosed up and down moments, I think really quickly. They really come on stronger when you like when it's the time of the month as well. I think for a lot of females with ADHD that intensifies it.
Yeah, not just that there. I go to zero from zero to one hundred in most days.
I not a lot more then.
Yeah, yeah for sure, but yeah I usually like this calm.
Yeah, I calm you down.
Yeah, how explain how just giving you the time?
I think you've got to give them the outlet to have that for a little bit, not so quiet.
Don't do that. Don't do that.
Yeah, let the explosion happen, and then after that, calm down, yeah.
Well, I know that I can go from zero to one hundred, have an explosion, and within like five to ten seconds, I'm fine.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I'm just like what was that that.
So as they're having an argument and going to I will kind of go to sleep like there's no issue, and Barry the next morning we'll wake up and kind of like still be a bit like angry, and I'm just like getting on with my day. I'm like and then I'm like, what's wrong with you? And he's like, oh, you just said a few like mean things last night.
I'm like, what what are you talking about? Like the memory is just gone, Like I'm just so over it, like like you said, Matt, like within zero two one hundred, and then it's like I've forgotten what we're even talking about. I think the most important thing in our relationship though, and I always get people to ask me this, like how how does Barry support you? And I think, honestly, it's it's a dance in the sense that like I had to educate him, well, I had to first understand
my own ADHD. Then I had to be able to educate him about my ADHD. And then it's like then we together come up with what works and what doesn't work.
I think a massive thing is and correct me if I'm wrong. If you're in a relationship with someone that has ADHD. Personally, I feel like the person that doesn't have ADHD has to give a lot more and understand the person with it more than the I feel personal. That's how I feel from my experiences because I'm not so the way my brain works isn't as receptive to
like their stuff, do you know what I mean? And I'm sort of fixed in my ways and what I what I do, and I can't, like it's fucking hard for me to undo the way I am, do you know what I mean? You know what I'm trying to I've had this thousand times with my ex, like fucking a million times because she just didn't want to like listen to like the way I would do things, and I'm like, I can't see it from your side. I kind of unwire myself.
Yeah, I think there needs to be like a general openness, as in like open and open mind is kind of like how I explain it, but to kind of touch on that point just quickly. So I always say people like, oh, you know your partner has to put up with so much like this that, And I'm like, at the end of the day, every single human being coming into any relationship has something, whether it's ADHD, whether it's depression, whether
it's anxiety, whether it's attachment issues. Like, every single human being has something that they're going to have to be
able to navigate with their significant other. So I think, like, give yourself a little bit of credit as the ADHD partner to not have like not come into a relationship and feel like you're such a burden that your partner has to understand you and that's so shitty for them, right, Like, yeah, it's shitty for Barry, But there's also things that like I have to navigate with him that he's brought to
the relationship. So I think it's kind of just like having that maturity to be able to go, yeah, you've got ADHD. I can have that open mindness about it, but you know you're not You're not bringing something to the table that's unmanageable.
Absolutely, it's different.
Something I say as well, is you know, like it does come with all like the annoyance not sorry, that's the wrong word, Like the difficulties of it trying to manage it. But then if you do manage it and you learn how to navi gate it, I think it fucking could be like magical if you get you know what I mean, Because there's so many pros that come
with ADHD. And I would always say that, like, if you're just learning how to navigate, like the turmoil and like the negatives, the positives outweigh it, I feel.
One hundred percent. And that's what I was saying about that open having that open mind. And I think that's something that Barry does and really executes really brilliantly, is he has this open mind. And it's like if I, like, I kid you not this guy he does this to put up with a lot. But like if I decide, like we'll be laying bed at eleven o'clock and I'm like, like, the other night, we're putting away clothes and I'm like, I'm sick of doing this because I hate putting away clothes.
And the reason I don't want to put away clothes is because my wardrobe's too full. So yes, at eleven thirty at night, I decided it was the perfect opportunity to rip out all of Like I completely like our bed was like a mountain. It was eleven o'clock and he's like, you know how you said you wanted to get to bed earlier and like go for a run
in the morning. I'm like, yeah, that's not happening. We're doing this and it's just that ability for him to be able to go, Okay, cool, let's put some music on, let's have some fun whatever, like and like you said, mate, it's just embracing those moments that you know, we do get to have that fun time.
I think as the non ADHD person, you choose to indulge in it or take part in it, or you can choose to be angry at the fact that she's doing that, and then the outcome is from that. If you choose to be angry, she's going to get heightened, everything's going to blow up, and it's all going to go to But if you don't you join in. It's an amazing moment that you guys kind of like laugh at Yeah.
But yeah, like you were saying, you know, your relationship can be incredibly amazing when you do have ADHD, Like we have an incredibly playful fun like spontaneous, like we book random trips, away all of a sudden, we're in donuts when we're going to the grocery store, like it's just fun and just let it happen, like that's that's it's just not fighting it.
I think from meeting you guys for like I don't know how long this podcast has been going, like ten minutes, I can already see that you guys have such a fun relationship and you really seem to be like the ying to each other's yang.
It's really nice to say you can fit.
Yeah, yeah, there has there ever been times where you've struggled to navigate or you've come to like a kind of stop sign or a speed bump in the road.
I think the.
Yeah, I mean, look every day there's something like as much as we have this fun play for relationship, there's always something. But I think it's you know, and I think I said this to someone the other day. It's like it's not about like not having fights, Like it's not about not having disagreements. It's just how you like ride that way. And I don't know, like you're two individuals.
You can respect each other, you can agree to disagree and then make it again will make it fun afterwards, like we have this thing that when we are angry at each other, it just takes one of us to like smile or like laugh at one another, and the fight's over us, right, And I think it's like putting your ego aside and just being like, Okay, it's you two in the relationship. It's not you against me, Like
I'm not here to prove anything. But yeah, there has been a lot of stuff along the along the way, there a.
Few at the beginning of the relationship.
Yeah, And it's interesting to think about that because at the start of our relationship we did have a lot of challenges, particularly with that emotional regulation stuff and the cycle of like me getting bored and like create craving was craving the bad boy back in the day, and so Barry at the time was like this really lovely sweet. It was giving me everything I needed, and I'm like, I'm bored, Like I don't know how to I don't know how to manage it, and I didn't know how
to put words to that. I was just like, look, I don't know what's happening. But like I said, the crux, the crux of it really is is that I had
to learn about my ADHD. Yeah, and that gave me the words to understand my own patterns, take ownership of my own patterns, and basically make a different choice because the pattern was the same, like throughout my whole life, Like fall in love super super quickly, think that they're the one, rush into things, next thing you're on like an overseas holiday with this person, and then you're break it up when you get home. Like that was the cycle that was quite quite constant.
So are there any misconceptions about ADHD that you want to address or clear up? I think there's a lot, don't It's not that kid.
I always say, it's not that kid in the corner who, like you know, has outbursts and punches hole in the wall of the classroom. That's not what ADHD is. There's a lot more to it than that.
Yeah, it is. It's definitely more than just that. And I think that misconception in particular came from so back in the I don't know if you guys remember, but remember how everyone kind of knew it as add or ADHD. Yes, Yeah, so everyone a lot of people kind of thought ADHD was that kid in the corner, you know, that was that stock standard what ADHD was. They kind of discovered as time went on that ADHD. Actually there's three types
of ADHD as we know it today. So there's the hyperactivity impulsive type, which is that little boy in the corner that can't sit still, that presents differently once you grow up, though. And then there's the inattentive type, which is usually what girls are diagnosed with, and that's more internal, so it's the forgetfulness, it's the day dreaming, it's like the distracted thoughts, all of those kinds of things. And
then there's the combined type. So it was actually why a lot of girls went misdiagnosed for such a long time because we all had this idea, even myself, like I knew I diagnosed with ADHD or I had it, but I never resonated with the little boys in my class that had ADHD. I didn't like. I was like, well, I'm not like them, like it's different. I'm just like off with the fairies kind of thing. So it presented
really differently. But I think that's a massive misconception, and that's actually why a lot of women now in particular are are getting diagnosed and even even men as well. So yeah, so.
Would you say ADHD even although there's those kind of like three main groups, is like a spectrum, like everyone kind of shows up differently.
Yeah. Look, I think the easiest way to explain this is like when you think of the word hyperactivity, hyperactivity, like you said, it's that little boy in the side of classroom. Hyperactivity can also be biting your nails. Hyperactivity can also be you know, picking, like I'm playing with a scrunchy right now because I'm trying to put my
energy somewhere else. Hyperactivity can present in your mind. Hyperactivity can present and as you know, when you come home from work you've got to go straight to the gym, or when you come home from the gym, you've got to get straight into cooking. It's like there's no actual stop. And so when we see the word hyperactivity is a symptom, right, we think, oh, yeah, so it's the little kid that
can't sit still. Well, No, hyperactivity presents so differently. So that's what you're kind of saying in the sense that, like it's such a broad spectrum. So when you look at inattentiveness or distractions or hyperactivity, all of those look different for each person.
My roommates used to say that I was like the definition of how do they word it? Always making moves but doing nothing, Like it feels like I'm not doing much, but like I'm always like doing stuff, do you know what I mean? Like I couldn't just like sit there, like I always had to be doing something. Yeah, it's this pyperactivity version.
So when Matt got diagnosed with ADHD on our podcast, he actually said to me, I think you might have ADHD, Anna, And then from there some of our listeners were like, yeah, I didn't want to say anything, but I think you have it too. And I was like, oh, okay, Like I don't know where to go from here, because I genuinely, until Matt just got diagnosed, I.
Didn't know any symptoms.
I'd never looked it up.
It literally was not.
On my radar at all. Yeah, and I don't know if I have ADHD. Maybe I do, maybe I don't. But I guess my question is what advice do you have for people who believe that they potentially could have ADHD.
I think my advice would definitely be do the research, but not just textbook research. Like, and I know that there's kind of like controversy around the sense of like obviously don't go watch one TikTok and diagnose yourself with ADHD. But also we've got this opportunity now where we live in you know, the age of videos, and we're actually able to see it play out in real life for a lot of people. So you know, go and watch you know, add tiktop is, see if you resonate with it.
And then what I would then say is then go and have a look at the more I guess credible sources and really line it up and go, Okay, does this you know, does this align with what I'm experiencing. And like I said, with the hyperactivity, you know, don't just see it as black and white being like okay, well I don't run around or I can sit down on an aeroplane. I don't have hyperactivity. Look at the patterns in your life, you know, look at or the
impulsivity for example. You know, impulsivity isn't just shopping issues. You know, it isn't just overspending issues. It can be you know, being in a relationship and you know, constantly interrupting or not being able to you know, I guess, let the other person say what they want to say, or you know, even if you do have that patience, it's having the thought in your head constantly trying to
stop yourself from interrupting them. So I think, just look at the patterns and those kinds of I guess symptoms and how they might be presenting for you, and then I just say, you know, make a make a list of them, like your daily life, how does it show up, and then just try and see those patterns for yourself and then book in to a GP sooner than later, because there's a long list.
List, isn't there. I do. I am that I do hate people that are saying, like when I got diagnosed, people around me were like, oh you as well, you've got to jumping on the BAM bandwagon all this sort of stuff, and I'm like, well no, I think that there's such an awareness now because of TikTok. Like I said, TikTok was the reason why I did. I saw a TikTok and literally the opening line was do you drink too much coffee? You you would you might have ADHD
And I was like, well, fuck, all right, I've got yeah. Yeah. So I was just like I was like, all right, I'll have a watch of this, and then I watched it and then like you know, Flick went to his profile and watched a couple more, and slowly my algorithm started becoming like you know ADHD stuff, and I was like, fuck, I'm taking a lot of these boxes, you know, really me Another half moment I had was and this was even before or I like even thought about ADHD was.
I used to explain to my ex that I would say an orange. I would say, so, like you see an orange, you see an orange. I was like, if I see that orange, I'm going through my head. I'm like, how orange is that orange? If I juice it, how much juice will come out of it? If we will there be pulp? Why do they charge extra for oranges with pulp? Like you know, orange juice with pulp?
And then you're thinking about apples.
Yeah, and then you go and then you go something else, and I was just like I and I saw you have like a one D mind. Mine is like four D and like you take it as an insult, but I didn't see it as an insult.
It was like, I mean that sounds like an insult, no, but it's like one dye.
I actually was like I'm sort of jealous in a way because like this is before I knew and I knew how to know it. I was like, I can't just see it for like what it is, like I'm over like thinking about it. And then like so that became like something that I had an a half moment. I don't know if you're the same.
Yeah, no, I definitely experienced that. Yeah, definitely. We have those conversations quite a lot.
I think I'm like, just we'll just do this today, Like no, I've got this one, that one, this that leads to that that that's for that.
Yeah, it's actually it's something that comes It's something that's come up a lot as like a business owner, because everyone's like it's it's black and white.
Just it's not.
I can't just do that. I have to understand because I have to do that. I have to talk to that person. I don't have that skill. And it's like I end up with a list of twenty things and people like why are you overcomplicating it? And I'm like I'm not, this is what I have to do to get that done. And then they're like, no, you just write an email and I'm like no, it's not that easy. And that's like, that's like my saying it's not that easy, and they're like it is.
I'm like, I remember one when I was like, we're putting we're going for a walk, like, let's go for a walk, and she put crocs on and I was like, oh, you're wearing crocs and she's like yeah, And then we got into this little thing and I was like no. But then in my mind, I'm like, if we're wearing crocs, it's not an athletical walk. It's just like a walk to the content. What am I wearing? Am I wearing
the wrong glores? I wearn't you know? And I've gone like into this full spiral of thoughts when she's just like, chill the fuck out, We're going to go get a coffee, and I'm like, no, we're not, like what should I wear?
You know what?
I'm going on this fool like yeah, I was yah. I use that as an example of that sort of thing where it's not.
Shoes on your best piece of advice in having an ADHD partner.
There's a lot of advice, but the one I really kind of have told friends that have come to me and said they've got a partner with ADHD is just not a judge if they're doing something, if they're saying something, kind of being intrigued by it and asking them more about it, because then, as as Mattis said, he will tell that person that ten step process that he's actually
going through for what he's actually thinking about. If you're not interested in it and you're just like we're just going for a walk, they're going to be like they're.
Going to.
About the crops.
But yeah, I think as soon as you're interested about something that your partner with ADHD is interested in, it opens a lane of communication that you wouldn't have otherwise. Yeah, and then the miscommunication doesn't actually happen.
Yeah, I think you just accept me. Like I feel like that's just the biggest thing. And it's kind of like it's like what we were talking about before with the emotional dysregulation and all the things. Like I think the biggest thing in an ADHD relationship is it has to feel safe, Like I have to be able to feel safe. I shouldn't have the mask around my partner, Like that's I have the mask and every other facet of life.
And it's kind of like coming home and it's actually it's not something I still as an adult, I feel this shame around it. But I may be having a meltdown and a tantrum like a kid. You not, I'm actually going to tell you this story. We went to lunch the other day and I ordered a steak and I was so excited for this staate, like.
I it's like past. She's like, I know this story.
Yeah, that's right. I'd ordered this steak and I wanted it to be I think it was like medium cooked or whatever. And it came out and we'd waited like forty five minutes, so I hit the hangary stage as well, so my emotional dysregulation was already kicking in. And she hands me the steak and it was like I go to cut into it, and it was like it was
too tall, like it was overcooked. And I was like, like there was so much dopamine attached to having a good steak that I was just like, I'm not going to get like I didn't say this in my head, but my brain was like there's no dopamine. Now everything sucks. Oh my god. And then I just started like tearing up. It's so dramatic to think about it, but I was like, bro, it's like it's okay, and I'm like, don't touch me. But like as a partner, like it's nice to know
that I don't have to feel embarrassed about that. Like he he's not like Otara, what the hell? Like why are you crying? It's a steak, Like it's embarrassing, Like he's not putting that shame onto me. He's genuinely just like it's okay, Like, hey, what do you say. We're like, we'll get your cheeseburger on the way home, Like, don't stress. It's just nice. Like that's that's the acceptance that I'm talking about that he does really well.
Yeah, yeah, I have one quite similar to that that, Like it was like, what do you call like a renowned relationship thing with my ex? And it comes down to Barry like understanding that situation. She didn't get it. Then all week I wanted this burger from Hungry Jacks like sorely ads constantly on TV. Saw it Mike and I was driving and I was like, that's what I want,
and like you said, doping was like attached to it. Yeah, So we go get the burgers, we come back to our house and they've given me the wrong burger.
Oh my god.
I fucking lost it, like I lot and I was like and then she was like, she was like just eat this like it's this, this just doesn't have it was like nearly the same, and I was like, no, you don't understand. I started like telling it like I've been waiting all week from this. This is my cheap meal. I'm going to fucking kill myself if I eat a burger that I don't want to eat, Like it's I need to go for a run. I like lost it to the point where and then she was like, well, go,
it's around the corner. And I want you to come with me. I want to go through the whole thing. Yeah, I want you to come with me. I want you to go through the drive through with me. I want to do the whole thing again and make it right.
And she couldn't understand why I wanted to do that, and like I was going like I was really mad, like just and not at her at the situation, and she couldn't comprehend the difference of what it was like Yeah, like I was threatening to call people like I was, I was in real thing back like I was having a full break.
Like gyg I've done that with good There's like a specific sauce that Tyler likes.
Because we're going to go sit at the park and eat goose.
Then that time, this is multiple times, twenty minutes to go get.
That sauce because you have in your head and then you want it to be that way. I want to go through the drive through, come through, sit down and eat together. And it wasn't gonna happen. She's like, I'll stay here and eat im Like, no, I want you to come with me and I want to eat together at the same time.
Yeah, yeah, that's really cool.
The dope means not just attached to the food. It's the experience that it's like the whole It's like the whole picture that you get the dope mean from. Like with the steak. The reason I wasn't upset wasn't even half the thing to do with the steak. It was the fact that like everyone was eating. It was like we're meant to always sharing a meal, like with my family and like all this stuff, and it was just like I didn't want to have to ask the way to come over and make her feel bad and cause
the whole situation anyway. So I fully get that. I fully get that that's so funny as a.
Non ADHD person, Let's just say Matt's example, what, like, I guess, what's the best way to kind of like bring peace and harmony back to the situation or do you just ride the wave? What's like the best piece of advice?
Ride the wave?
Yeah, ride the wave and go with them and getting another burger, because, to be honest, is what they're just around the corner.
Don't even in the sense that it's like, oh, how do we avoid a meltdown? Because then it makes you feel like a child as a partner, do you know
what I mean? Like Barry and I we navigate this really well in the sense that it's like it's not a parent child dynamic, and that can be a trap that a lot of people with ADHD fall into in their relationships, where like the one partner feels like a parent, but then when you're a child or like you're in that thing, you feel like you're it's not a nice feeling as an adult to feel like a child, right, So don't coddle them, like, don't be like, oh, it's okay,
Like it's all right, Like, don't treat us like a child. Just make it like a fun kind of like thing, Like just don't make it a big deal. Ride the wave. Really is it the worst case scenario turning around and eating it again. But I will say there is still onus or a sense of responsibility as the ADHD person.
I agree.
It's not like I just get to go I'm a maniac. I lose my shit. You just have to copy it, Like that's not cool either. There is the point at which, like I do think, if you've got ADHD, you've got this condition, it is your responsibility to build that awareness and education around yourself. Build the strategies, listen to podcasts, whatever it is you need to be able to educate yourself.
Like I've learned to emotionally regulate, and I know that when the State thing happened, I needed to just go to the bathroom for ten minutes to just calm myself down. And I sat there and I was like, I'm regulated. I came back and I was sweet. But like, it's my responsibility as well.
It's not just when I had that burger episode, I didn't know I had ADHD at that point. Neither of us knew what the fuck is going on. It's like something's not right, you know what I mean, A fully grown man at twenty seven should not be wigging out over a burger, I mean in my life.
And I think that's such a like it's so good that there's so much awareness around ADHD now, because I can imagine that if you have ADHD and you're going through this scenario, there would be a point where you're like, this is probably my ADHD, and then you can be like, Okay, I'm going to try to like self regulate all that.
It was just like, oh, like it would be shaken off as Matt's just a bit different, you know, and or that's just happening. Yeah, like it wasn't really, but.
Like, yeah, there's shame about it. There's a sense of shame, whereas when and I think that's the power of a diagnosis and a self diagnosis in the sense it's like you actually get to say, oh, that's my that's the you know, my brain needing dopamine or you know, that's that's the emotional dysregulation happening, that's the rejection sensitivity happening.
Like you can put names to it. And I think when you can put a name to something, it can you can decide what you do with like it gives it power and you can decide whether you let it rule you in a sense or you take control of it in that moment.
Yeah, and I think I think two is the person without without ADHD.
If you're looking.
Forward to a stake or a burger or something for a week, you're also going to such a different point if you don't get the right.
One or it's not as good.
Yeah, and I think you.
Can notice that.
Yeah, And I could see why my partner emphathize with them and go okay, I can see with the justsregulation why you would be at that point.
There's nothing else than getting a bad meal at a restaurant when you're playing, Like the prices in Melbourne, they're like a meal at this point, Like it's crazy.
Stay thirty six, maybe forty, don't get we.
Started on that. We won't do it. I get you with that.
Can you guys talk us through toxic eighty HD dating cycles?
Is that what it's called?
Yes? Yes, I I don't even know where that like title came from. I just like I made a video like probably a year or two ago about it, and then it seemed to stick within the community. I called it the I call it the toxic ADHD like love cycle or whatever you want to call it. So I've actually written it down because I didn't want to give the order rolls and I do it. I was gonna and I felt like it was going to come up. So it was kind of what we've been talking about
as like throughout this episode. But the first step. I always say that it's like six stages that we kind of go through, and it's like, the first step is we fall hard and fast, so the dopamines up there, serotonin's up there, We're just like, oh my god. Then we go through the hyperfixation slash like obsession stage, and this is where it's like, you know, and it can get a little toxic. And this is where the toxic
start like comes into it. You can get that jealousy, you can get those really intense insecurities because you're so hyper fixated on that other, that new person, right. You can also in that stage really lose yourself. So I I don't know about you, Matt, but like there's been times where I'm not I don't play soccer, and I might have met someone that likes soccer and I'm like, I like soccer out and I'm like out buying boots next week, joining like a soccer club, Like so strange,
but like, do you know what I mean? Like you just lose yourself in that person's interest that it's like you just ditch all your own kind of thing. Then the next stage is you, a lot of the time become convinced that they are the one. So that's where like a lot of people with ADHD actually end up finding themselves in really toxic relationships or dating narcissists because you'd miss the red flags when you instantly fall for them.
The love's there, you know, you've already attached to them, you've already connected to them, You've gone through the hyper focus and obsession stage, which means your lives are like glued together. And then now you're convinced they're the one, right irregardless of anything else, everyone in your life, everyone in your life being like oh no to yourself, yeah, anyway, that's a story for another day. And then once you can inserer the one or you're like, oh my god,
this is my person, you rush into things. Right, So you guys, might buy a dog together. You guys might move in together really quickly. You might booking overseas, you might book an overseas holiday in together. Like, there's just a lot of things that you rush into. And again, when you're rushing into these things and you're missing the red flags, you're getting yourself further and further into a toxic relationship that is going to be trickier to get out of, and not always it can just be a
relationship that isn't ideal. Then you usually go through the bottom and loss of interest stage. And this is kind of just like the way I describe this is people of that at HD often talk about the fact that they change hobbies left, right and center right. You might be into surfing one week, go buy surfboard next minute. Next week, you're playing guitar, or you're starting a podcast, whatever it is. You're constantly changing hobbies and there's all
this dopamine attached to that hobby. And it's the same pattern in this toxic love cycle. It's like we follow the same pattern with hobbies and then we lose interest and then we get bored and we start a new one. So that same thing applies to relationships. In the sense that you're dating this new person, all these crazy intense feelings you're feeling are like, ugh, okay, don't know if I'm feeling that anymore, and your brain's craving that dopamine
spike again, that dopamine of finding someone new. And there's actually a lot of a lot of research that's gone into ADHD relationships and a lot there's a lot of infidelity and cheating in ADHD relationships that yeah, it can be a pretty intense pattern. And then yeah, a lot of people then just move on or quickly rebound into a new relationship and find themselves into that cycle again.
Right, And how do you break the site For anyone listening who can really resonate with what you just said.
I think it's awareness. It's awareness. It's like, yeah, it's like anything. If you're not aware of it, you don't know what's happening. Like I went through this cycle my
whole life. Like I was infatuated with boys when I was really young, and it started really early in the teenage years, and I'd get myself into situations and it was just this cycle that just continued and it wasn't until yeah, like I understood the cycle that happens for me with hobbies and with like jobs and other things that I was like, damn, this is a pattern, not just in you know, that area of my life. This is a pattern in my romantic kind of situations. And
I just think awareness is it's something. It's like, we don't give it enough power, but having the awareness of something is honestly the most powerful thing because you can call yourself out on it. You know, you get to actually go okay, I'm you know. So we Barry and I when we hit that stage, when I was hitting that light, I was looking for that that hit of dope for meine again, that excitement. I was aware enough
to be able to go okay. So at the moment I'm in that stage where I'm like wanting to jump ship, I'm wanting to have something exciting in my life, I'm not going to do that. And it was hard, Like it was like a good month or two where I really had to sit with those intense emotions of the boredom because again, like we were saying at the start of the episode, I was feeling that intense boredom right, I was feeling and it wasn't anything too a bar
it was literally just myself. You're not You're not worried. But it was just like like we said before, it's riding that wave, understanding it. I knew I was experiencing it.
And then yeah, just can I ask how long into your relationship did that happen?
I don't even know. Six months?
Yeah, yeah, it was very odd and off at the start.
Two years, two years we've we've lived with each other for seven Yeah.
That's yeah.
Oh wow.
Notice just just like house house.
Look like I moved to the Gold Coast when I finished high school straight away and I just moved into this massive, like share house situation, and I had like eight housemates and then one of them moved out. Barry ended up being the stranger that moved in. And then over the years we just kind of like as friends, like fully as friends. We just kind of went from that house to another house and then moved to this house which we're currently in. And yeah, we were just
friends that whole time. And basically we fell in love during COVID because we were stuck in a house together.
Were you in separate rooms? Then?
Yeah, we weren't roommates, just how smith.
And then and then in COVID. They're like, actually, we don't want to pay for two rooms anymore.
No, I didn't get a choice. You were upstairs.
It's funny when I think about that now because we're just talking about that cycle. So I just got out of a toxic relationship. I just graduated UNI. We were out on the town and the Gold Coast. That sounds so old, but anyway, we were having a night out and I got really wasted, basically, and Barry and I, I don't know, I like this. Apparently I was like dancing and grinding up on Barrier, which has never happened
in like seven years in partying and friendship. And yeah, and then obviously he was like not bad.
And you remember the bits where I was in the whole thing.
Yeah.
The next morning was like, yeah, you were.
It was weird, but yeah, So after that we ended up kissing that night. Nothing else happened. Came home the next morning, I texted Barry and I was like, what happened last night? And I thought, which I know now to be true, but I thought that we had like these crazy chemistry and like all the feelings and stuff from that kiss. And I texted him, I was like, hey, like, did you feel that also or did it just feel weird like you know friends, and Barry's like, now it
felt weird. I'm like, okay, cool, that's never spinking about again, man, Like yes, and it was. It was so like awkward. And then anyway, so nothing happened for like six months after that until March in COVID And yeah, one one day I was just laying on the couch and Barry started throwing pillows at me.
And I was like, that's not my move, okay, And I was like.
What the hell, because in my head I was like, oh, he said that it was weird, like he would never go there again that obviously. But yeah, then the next day the pillows kept coming, and then I was like, in my hyperfixation stage, I was like, I'm not going to work for the next three days, so I wanted to see you for three days just to like see what was happening. And then yeah, he ended up like leaning over and kissing me, and then the rest was history.
We tried to keep it on like the d L but yeah, it is.
That is a very cute story, the killer throwing.
It's all very cute. I love it.
I mean, was that your game plan when you were throwing the pillows or we.
Don't call out, I mean probably.
Is that you're flirting. Yeah, it's.
But then I asked him, I was like, so did the kids, Like were you lying when you said it was just friends? Because like I was cut deep. And then he's like, yeah, it.
Was like yeah, is it because we didn't want to make it awkward in the house.
Yeah.
I think we were friends for so long that I think at the beginning it was like, we don't want to ruin the friendship because then if this goes sideways, are in point, it would ruin the friendship. But I just I think it's just the fact that we're doing that actually started ruining the friendship.
I think.
Yeah, I think that's good though, that you guys were friends before, so you had a little bit of an understanding before you went into it, you know what I mean, around the house and it's not just all new and you're like, what the fuck's going on? Yeah?
Exactly.
Yeah.
At we also met and knew each other's exes, every single one of us, so that added another layer to different.
I mean, that's anxiety when it comes to intimacy and ADHD.
Why is it more complicated?
Matt, I want to ask you this. I was gonna say, what have you experienced like when it comes to intimacy being complicated?
Oh geez.
No. The reason the reason I was asking is because like I know a lot as in like we actually actually run a course on this. It's called the seven Day ADHD Intimacy Challenge, and it's designed to help people with ADHD navigate this whole thing. So I was more curious from like, it's just like, I think one of
the biggest things is like lack of connection. So obviously, as someone with ADHD, you know, you can be really disconnected from your partner really easily without realizing, so constantly, you know, going to work, coming home from the gym, Like we were saying before, it's like you're get in this cycle and it's like you can't stop. So then because you can't stop, you kind of can't connect sometimes.
So there's this disconnect. So when you then obviously go to I guess I think the desire just isn't there a lot of the time for people with ADHD. So and I guess it's also not black and white in that sense in the idea that like there's libido variations, So you either have a really intense high sex drive where that's all that you can think about, or it's on the under end of the spectrum where it's like
you're not thinking about it, like it's just caput. So that can be really hard to navigate, and it's not a constant thing. So you might have found that it's like, you know, for a couple of months, you're hyper focused on sex, it's all you can think about, and then it's like you haven't thought about it in two months and you haven't realized that.
I had that exact problem in most of my relationships. Yeah, when I was there like well, like calm down, I'm like, no, I need to do it like me, and then like then, like you know, they'd just be like a couple of months later that what's going on now you're not even interested? And I'm like I don't know, I'm just not like, I'm just I can't I can't explain to you. Yeah.
Yeah. In the ADHD world, we call that the all or nothing mindset, and we have that when it comes to everything.
Basically I've got that.
Yeah, So it's like all or nothing with everything, like you're all in or you're all out, Like it's that's kind of thing, but it kind of in addition to that, like that's one of the things that we struggle with. But another thing is like overstimulation. So like obviously when you're having intercourse, it's like breathing. You can feel it, you can hear it, you can smell it. It's like you're kind of getting distracted by things that your average
person wouldn't get distracted by. Yes, that's a big one all the time.
What the is that about that?
I've got to do that tomorrow?
Yeah, if I.
Put that away in the.
Fridge, And that's where that disconnect happens, because obviously your partner is going to be able to feel you're not into it, right, So it's kind of like, yeah, it can cause a real disconnect. So there's a lot of things you can do. I feel like my brain's like going.
Breath sometimes, temperature of the breath.
Away from me. It's stop moaning in my face.
I don't mind that. I don't know something sometimes I've had experiences I'm not going to say.
But you were saying that you like don't care about breath at all during sex like that, Like will pull out as retainer and be like straight into it, whereas like for me is like a big deal, like I'm like.
You need to go brush your teeth. Yeah, thinking about.
This that doesn't do that's sort of like that's like math's going into sex with retainer breath, Like that's a red flag.
That is a red flag.
I'll just take it out, Like I actually say, she could hear it from the out and put on the thing and she knew what was going on then.
Of focus, she's acting on the impulse.
Now there's something that I'd find that would throw me off, like the slightest like body language thing, and I'd be like, oh, what does she mean by that? And then like I'd just spiral in my own head and start thinking about like other stuff. Or I have like a core memory from when i was like thirteen, and I'm starting thinking about that and I'm like it, all of.
A sudden, that's probably your rejection sensitivity. So that that can be a really big thing in the intimacy, but in like having sex and stuff as an ADHD, because it's kind of like like what you were saying, when their body changes or you know, they move back and you kind of trying to read what's happening for them. Instantly you can kind of be like, oh, they don't think I'm attractive, or like, oh I did something gross, so maybe my breath smells or like, oh did that
taste weird? Or like it's kind of like you instantly go into this like fear response and rejections. Sensitivity is like a massive thing. Yeah, which it's It really plays out particularly in sex because it's the person you're closest with, right, So, like the fear of rejection is going to be so much more intense because they're like the last person on this earth you want to not like you or think you're growth as well.
That like I always would say, like I just want to, like, you know, if we have an argument or something, I'd want them to like forgive and let it go because I didn't want them to be angry and hate me.
Yeah, yeah, that is guys, this has been such an interesting chart.
We have to go, but I'm so sad.
I feel like we're gonna have to get you guys on the podcast again because this.
Is like a whole new world to Matt and to me.
I feel like it's just been so interesting a lot of this episode.
Needs to be like the aha adhd.
Thank you for your wisdom. I feel like we're going to have you on again. It's been so interesting. We really appreciate your time.
Thank you, thank you so much.
Thanks for chatting with us, Agh