Twice is the pattern three times? His character?
Oh I like that my job.
That's like just throwing out.
You take my job, Mart.
Look, Where's your Head At?
Is a podcast that talks four things. Little hold on a sec. Let's give this a refresh. Hi, I'm Anna.
And I'm Matt, and we are now too newlywed not to each other. Just a female and male best friend here for the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Times and exploring adulthood, family relationships, dilemmas.
And whatever else we have the mental capacity to deal with.
Come get the lowdown.
This is your male and female perspective.
So, Matt, where's your head at? Hello, and welcome. We have a beautiful dating coach on the podcast today. Her name is Mimi.
What Hello, Hi, welcome to where's your Head Up?
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
We're excited to have you. Yeah, where's your head at?
My head at? My head my head up. My head's good, my head feels very clear today. I'm very excited to be here and just talk all things dating and relationships.
We've just been picking Mimi's brain, being like what about this? What about that? She specializes in attachment styles, so we are going to get so deep into attachment styles. You guys are going to be so well versed on all things anxious, attachments, secure and all of the other ones.
Yeah, that's it.
Is there only the three or is there one more?
There's actually four. There's just organized attachment. It's just less spoken about.
I've never heard of that heard that one either.
Yeah, you're excited to get into it. You must get all of the tea. Being a relationship coach, you know lots of everyone's relationships. What would you say is the most surprising thing that you've learnt about love and connection that most people maybe wouldn't expect.
It's such a good question. I think the thing that's been most surprising for me on my own journey and then seeing it come out in clients as well, is that once you if you've been in a series of unhealthy, your toxic relationships, and then you finally get into a secure, healthy relationship. I used to think that that just means it's all sunshine and rainbows and like you've met your dream person and you have the happily ever after and there's no more work. Like it's just what you see
in the Disney movies. And in Hollywood movies, and I found that there's actually so much work that still needs to be done when you're in those healthy relationships. It's different sort of work. It's not as hard as the toxic ones, but it's you know, there's still so much that can come through that needs to be healed and worked on. And I found that to be probably the most surprising.
Yeah, we were talking before about how everyone should be in therapy, right.
Match, Yeah, I agree, I think that, and you said as well, you think relationships should be in therapy even if they have nothing wrong with them. It's just good to go to therapy.
Yeah, I think it's just about setting yourself up for success. Like the more you can understand yourself and the more you can understand one another, the better off you're going to be when you come up against those inevitable roadblocks down the line, because no relationship is perfect and you're always going to come up against some sort of conflict
or issue. And I think if you understand each other and also have the tools to learn how to navigate it, like communication tools or you know, just understanding one another, it just makes such a difference. So, yeah, it's sort of like just prevention is better than cure.
If there was one universal relationship rule that everyone should follow, what would that rule be.
H It's kind of a classic and a cheesy one, but my answer would be to treat other people the way you want to be treated. So with a lot of my clients, they'll tell me about the type of relationship they want, they have a partner that they want to be with, and I always say that starts with you. That starts with how your coming up in dating and relationships. So for example, like let's say, in the dating world, if you don't want to be ghosted by other people,
don't be someone who goes to other people. Like if you want someone who's open with their communication, you need to be that person first. So just that classic. It's a cliche, but it worked.
I think communication is so big in relationships and being able to communicate with your partner in a really healthy way, yeah, is so imperative. How can we communicate better in our relationships?
Such a good one. I think with communication, the key is seek to understand. Seek to understand one another because when we are communicating with our partner, there can be a lot of ego involved, and we just want to be right, and we want to be heard that we we can get so focused on that that we forget about trying to actually understand where the other person is coming from. And if we don't understand, then it's going to cause so many issues in the relationship. So, like,
I'll give you an example. Let's say you've got a couple, a guy and a girl, and the guy has a habit of when they're out in public, always looking at other women, like attractive women, and he's not doing it in a pervy way. He's just you see someone hot, you kind of look and he's just not aware of it. The woman in the relationship has a history of being cheated on, so she's got betrayal, her trust has been broken, so it's a really it's sensitive for her when she
sees him doing that. If they didn't have a conversation where she could he could understand why it was so sensitive for her, they might end up in a pattern of her just like giving him the cold shoulder, stonewalling him, getting pissed off being cold, and he's like, what's wrong, and she's, you know, kind of expecting him to be able to read her mind, and then that would like, yeah, and if he's saying, well, you're just being controlling, like I'm not, I don't mean anything by it. I'm not
even doing anything right. So that's where we're just clashing heads and we're not a team anymore. But if he was able to go deeper, I'm like, can you tell me why this bothers you so much? Like I want to understand, And it created that safe space for her to open up and say, Look, i was cheated on in the past, and so I'm working to rebuild my self esteem. And like, when I see you looking at other women on the street, it doesn't it's hurting me.
It doesn't help me in this journey. And then you know, communicating what you would need from him, And I guess if you have an understanding, it just allows you to like kind of drop your defenses and come around to that other person have more empathy, like, oh, I didn't know that you'd been through that. Therefore it makes sense that you know it hurts you when I look at other women. Thank you for telling me, Like, I'll be more conscious of that.
What would you say to someone then that doesn't want to be vulnerable because they're scared of getting hurt but they're going into a new relationship and to stop themselves from getting hurt again, they have to be vulnerable.
Yeah, it's a bit of a cuts I think. Yeah. Look, being vulnerable is never easy, but it is. It's a prerequisite if you want a real, healthy relationship that has depth to it. So I think it's about having to
be brave and take some steps to be vulnerable. But it's also about who you're choosing to be vulnerable with, Like, you get to choose who that person is, and if you're dating someone who anytime you mention emotions or anything about how you feel, if that other person gets weird or shuts you down or tells you you're being too emotional too much, you're not going to feel safe to open up and be vulnerable, are you. So yeah, I
think you know being vulnerable. It's best when you are with someone who makes you feel safe to be vulnerable.
Yeah.
I think that's a big part of it. Hold space for you.
Yeah.
I like what you said before. When you argue and it's about trying to be right with your partner. I heard another analogy that if you win a real if you win an argument, your relationship loses. Yeah, yes, you should never win an argument with your partner.
Well because you guys are routine.
But which is it?
Yeah, okay, let's pivot to dating in twenty twenty five. I think it's hard, right, It's so difficult, And I have a lot of friends who are single and they tell me some horror stories, and we all have our horror stories. But I feel like twenty twenty five has just that little bit of extra spice with people being very disposable because of dating apps. What is the best way to meet someone? Would you say?
I think, yeah, you're right, it's difficult these days because there are so many options and with the dating apps, says, I mean, you've got endless options in front of you. I mean, is there a right way or a wrong way? Like, is there a best way? I don't know. I think I've personally had great experiences meeting people in real life and also on the apps. Yes, So I think it's just about so where your heads are you want to
start putting yourself out there to date. I think the dating apps can be an amazing way to meet people, Like we've heard lots of success stories of people on the apps, but it's about the clearer you are on what you're looking for and what your intentions are before you even get yourself onto the apps, the better you're
going to set yourself up for success. So if you are in your casual dating error, I don't want something serious, be upfront about that on your dating profile and when you're talking to people, or if you are looking for a long term relationship, be upfront about that. I see a lot of people they kind of tiptoe around that because they think, oh, if I say I want a long term relationship, people are going to be put off by that and they're going to just but no, like you need to.
Be well, if someone's put off by it, then they're not the right person.
Well exactly, that's it.
Yeah. Yeah, And like I always say, like, you don't want someone to fall in love with this fake persona that you're putting on to impress them, Like you want someone to fall in love with you, but you know, the first first date.
Like you're just sitting on the.
Go that far.
But I mean, like, yeah, this is means two months from now for dating? Is that too early to get into that stage? Though? These days, I don't know how long do people show that these days?
I think it varies and just depends on the person. Like some people are just going to be have no shame, like this is who I am and it's there. They're just like unapologetic about it. And other people are going to be more self I wonder how.
Long I was with my wife when I would get up and still brush my teeth in the morning and she'd do the same before we'd like kiss that. Yeah, we don't do that anymore. When that's when that stopped.
But it's it is cute, like when you look back at those moments and you're like still trying to impress them, like you like quickly get up and like put a bit of like powder up.
Yeah.
Okay, So people are often scared of dating. I would say, what do you think makes dating so scary for people?
Rejection? Yeah, yeah, fear of rejection.
You know.
I think in this day and age, people the rate of comparison and self esteem issues has never been bigger because of social media, and I think there is a very real fear that a lot of people, especially they've come across in my line of work, just have this core belief that they're not good enough, and so putting yourself out there in dating situations. I mean, it's a sure fire way to be in the firing line for rejection. And I think I think people the more they avoid dating,
the bigger that fear gets. And so i'd say it's rejection. I'd also say it's probably a fear of like your worst fear coming true. So people think that, you know, it's so hard to meet anyone good, I'm not going to meet anyone nice. I'm going to be single forever.
And if they're projecting that fear, and then they go out and they have, you know, five dates that have sucked or they've failed, it's almost the fear of proving that to be true, and so they just kind of I see a lot of people just not trying at all because they're so scared.
Yeah, I've seen that too.
You coach them out of that?
I do, ye, yeah, yeah.
And how do you coach them that? For people listening, if you're someone who's afraid to date, what can they do?
I think if you're afraid to date, I mean, first of all, it's what do you what are you truly afraid of? Because if we don't look at that like under a microscope, often just it's just the anticipation and the fear that feels so daunting that we just stop ourselves. So it's like, what, really, what is the worst case?
You know, like you go on a date nothing evolves from it, or you go on a date like the worst maybe the worst cases you get stood up or something I don't know, and looking at that, it's like, well, yeah, that would be a ship but could you handle it, Like do you reckon? You'd be okay, you'd come out of that and likely it's like, yes, they would.
And laugh about it's a good story.
It's a good story.
Yeah, after a couple of months.
You're saying all this stuff like I don't know, like all that sort of stuff I just laugh about, Like because imagine getting stood off. You'd be like it would hurt. But imagine going and tell me.
You'd be like you're a loser for standing Yeah.
No, I would imagine me calling you and being like, hey, I just stood off.
Like it's funny. But it's also like a little bit of a like.
I could in the ego, I can understand that, Yeah, my ego is not that fragile.
I always go into dating with this mindset that ninety nine point nine percent of these dates aren't going to work out, so I'm kind of doing it for the story and for the plot.
Yeah.
Yeah, And I think that mindset shift really helped me with dating because I was horrendous going on a first date, like I would have before my first date with my husband. I had three shots of tequila because I'm so nervous, like just downing them with like a little bit of lemon in my apartment by myself, like freaking out, having meltdowns like I don't want to go.
I can't relate to that, Like I would never get nervous for a first date.
Really, you're like one in a million. Then, because I can't, I don't really know anyone.
Yeah. I think it's like one thing I do say to people and I used to I try to use myself, is just pretend you're going to meet a friend. Yeah, like you're just you don't think of it as a date. Just think of it as like you're just going to get to know someone. Because if you think about when you're going to meet a friend, the energy is so different, like there's no expectation, there's no concern, You're just going
to be yourself. You're just going to be curious about your friend, like what's been going on, how you're going And that just creates such a more authentic vibe and energy that I think helps you to get out of your head and just into the present moment so that you can actually see do we connect? Like how do I feel around this person? Is there a vibe? So yeah, just and you say like dropping the expectation.
How do you get to the point where you think to yourself like I'm a good data like I've I've nailed this, I've got this. Is it something when you've clocked it and you've got married? It's about getting married. I think it's like like you you know you're actively dating or like what's that mindset? What's going on within?
Yeah? I think to be a good data I think I really think dating is a skill. So, like anything any skill, you're going to get better at it the more you do it. You're going to get more confident in speaking about yourself in asking questions. And I think so experience is one thing like practicing just putting yourself out there, you know, getting the reps in, but then also really knowing yourself and knowing what your patterns are, knowing what your history is. You just don't want to
be going in blind, like on autopilot. Right, So if you are someone who's never stopped to reflect on your past relationships or dating experiences, and majority of them have had issues and they've been bad. If you don't stop and reflect, you're highly likely to just continue that pattern and attract more of the same people. So it's like knowing what are your red flags you're looking out for, what are your non negotiables, what are your green flags?
Are things that are positive for you? You just know those things.
You know.
It doesn't have to be super super super deep detail, but just having a bit of an idea, but it's going to help you be a better data.
Yeah, absolutely, I reckon. Yeah, I feel like there's been lots of bad dates that I've been able to reflect on, and I think by the end of like my dating career shall we call it, I had like a list
of just like absolute nos. So like by the end of dating, if someone did something that crossed my boundary, I was like totally out, Like yeah, you just like with your ex, I'm out, Whereas like at the start of my dating career, I would be like, oh, but it's okay, like we're not officially together and like that's fine, or like they lied to me about something big, or like you know, like what what am I going to put up with? And what am I not? And I guess that's where boundaries come in.
Well, if you let your boundaries slide early on with someone, then they're going to be like, well, you know, I can keep crossing boundaries.
Yeah, I keep getting away with it and getting.
Away with it, and you're not. You're already up to a shit it anyway.
So yeah, what would you say, are some red flags that you shouldn't ignore when it comes to dating?
Okay, red flags you shouldn't ignore. The first one is probably just compatibility. So depending on what you're looking for. I see so many people they'll tell me they want a relationship and then they meet someone who's like leaving the country in two months or who has just broken up with their X and like, yeah, but there's a really good connection. Like stop.
Chemistry and connection doesn't equal compatibility.
No. I don't know if it's because I'm pregnant, but that like really just like so hard, Like say, like.
You hit it off with someone, you've got good chemistry, you're like haha, laughing. It doesn't mean you're compatible because you don't.
Have the same values or you might have things that.
Don't align the one for me.
Yeah, okay, so hopefully everyone else wasn't as slow as I.
Was chemistry because it doesn't you get.
It a great point to bring in. Yeah, so the compatibility piece of like are you if you're not on the same page about where you're at in terms of emotional availability or lifestyle factors all that. Don't ignore that and just think that, oh no, but like it'll work out and things will just magically fall into place. It's maybe that will happen, but you know, yeah, there's a high chance it won't. Or another red flag is just if someone is really inconsistent and they're hot and cold
and they're saying one thing and they're doing another. So if they're out of integrity and if you're noticing early on that you're feeling a lot of anxiety because you're not really sure what's going on, Like they're kind of leaving you guessing a lot, major red flag, Like definitely.
Do you believe in if they wanted to they would statement.
I think to a large degree, if they wanted to they would. Yes, Yeah, if you're genuinely interested in someone and you want the connection to develop, like you're going to make that happen. You're going you're not gonna tiptoe around it. You know, it's going to be obvious. So yeah, I think if there's a lot of excuses being made, there's a lot of justification going on, that's a red flag.
It's like, well, if it's you know, a healthy relationship should be fairly easy and straightforward as the connection is developing. But yeah, like you said, Matt, sometimes there's going to be things in life that are with out of our control and they're going to get in the way, and you can't always make things happen. Like life isn't so
black and white, and there's got to be consideration. And I just think the biggest thing is if it's becoming a pattern, it's happening over and over again that someone is yeah, they're not showing up for you, they're making excuses, and it's happening more than a few times.
And twice is a pattern. Three times his character?
Oh I like that my job.
That's like just throwing out.
You take my job, Matt. Look, if you want.
You have actually recently launched your own podcast, it's called The Secure Love Club Congratulations, and you do a lot of work in love languages and attachment styles. Do you think that these are buzzwords or do you think that there's actually some depth to knowing your attachment styles and your love languages.
I think they definitely are very common now. People are talking about this all over TikTok, all over Instagram. Attachment styles. It is a bit of a buzzword thing, but there's so much depth to it, and it's such an important component of relationships and how the different dynamics we experience in relationships and how things play out. So yeah, it's in a bit of a buzzword phase, but very important work.
Okay, So the attachment styles go through them? Okay, Okay, so you're the guest.
There's so we have there's four attachment styles. Three are more common commonly spoke about. So there's securely attached, which is actually about fifty percent of the population. Then we have the insecure attachment styles, so there's anxiously attached on one end, and then avoidant attached on the other. And then there's a fourth one called disorganized attachment, which is a bit of a combination of anxious and avoidance, so
you're not like predominantly in one. You kind of flip flop between the two quite intensely, but yet mostly the secure, anxious and avoidant.
You said the fifty secure.
Yeah, where the fuck are they married? Where the fuck are whack it up?
Yeah? Right? Would you mind sharing what you are?
Yeah? Absolutely? I am securely attached previous anxiously attached girl and.
You worked through that to get too secure? Do you have a partner that helped you get there?
Or I did have a partner who helped me there? So I started my journey of going from anxious to secure in twenty twenty. So I went through quite a significant breakup with a partner who was heavily avoidant. I was heavily anxious, the dream combination, And once that relationship broke down, I sort of looked back over all of my past relationships and I just had this kind of moment where I thought, why the fuck does this keep happening? Like, why are relationship so hard? It shouldn't have to be
like this. And I would look around at other couples who were happy and seemed to be in a healthy relationship and that's when I kind of realized I'm the common denominator here amongst all of these, so I need to figure some shit.
Out great self awareness.
Yeah, thank you knowing that.
So that's when I and my sister, actually my elder sister had been getting me, telling me to read this book called Attached by Emir Levine for a good couple of years, and I kept pushing it away, pushing it away because like, I don't need it, don't need it, you know, I think you're not ready to you're ready to actually confront this stuff. And went through this breakup and she's like, read this damn book. It's like fine.
So I took it and just absolutely inhaled it. Like it was as though for the first time in my life, this blindfold was being lifted, and I finally understood myself and why I attracted certain types of people in relationships, why I was always so anxious, always feeling like I was too much. And that's when the healing journey started. So that's when I was just you know, delving into the topic researching. I hired a coach of my own to help me work through it, and did a lot
of work for about a year. I it was intentionally single for a year to work on my relationship with myself. Great, yeah, which I think is very important, And then ended up attracting a beautiful guy, secure man and we got into
a relationship. And that sort of comes back to what I said earlier about I was surprised at how much should have needed to be worked through coming into a secure relationship, because as those who are anxiously attachable, when you're dating people who are avoidant or emotionally unavailable, there's a lot of chaos. There's a lot of up and down.
It's very tumultuous. And when you get into a secure with a secure partner, in that relationship, it's so stable and predictable and they're just they're there, and for your nervous system, when you're not wired for that stability, it's very jarring and you almost want to create chaos where there is none. I found myself wanting to do that, like create fights or create drama out of nothing, because I was like, is this what a healthy relationship is?
Like?
It's boring almost, right, So there's an adjustment period with that.
Yeah, So it sounds like having an anxious partner and an avoidant partner is not what we want to have in a relationship. But of course there's probably people out there listening who are an avoidant and an anxious attachment person. How can they strengthen their relationship If you.
Have someone who's anxious and avoidant and there's real love there, but you're really struggling to understand each other, I would say, if you want the relationship to work, you both have to want to work at it. Yeah, So that means understanding your history, right, because our attachment styles are predominantly formed in our early childhood. So understanding what was your
relationship like with your parents? What was it when you were emotional and like you said, you had that bid for connection with your parent or you tried to express it. Were they there for you consistently? Did they shut you down? Did you your parents go through a divorce? Like, all of these things are contributing to how you're showing up
in your romantic relationships as an adult. So the better you can understand that as individuals, the more you're going to be able to understand what's going on for the other person and you can work with each other to try to become more secure in the relationship.
In some ways is an anxious and an anxious attachment to get good because then they're just yeah, I don't know if i'd say each other, I don't know.
No, not commonly no, no, the yeah, an anxious and anxious might just be really codependent.
Yeah, yeah, okay, I can say that. Yeah, that's what I mean.
Connect.
That's not good to be codependent on your partner.
That's you want to be more like interdependent. So you want to be It means that you are happy and comfortable being independent so you can live your life outside of the relationship. You have friends, Like, you're happy doing your own thing, but you're also comfortable leaning on your partner for support and also giving your partner support. So you understand it's natural for you to to want to lean on one another and that doesn't scare you away
or anything. It's fine. But if your partner wants to go out for the night with their friends, you're like, no worries, Like, you're happy doing your.
Thing, so like a healthy version of that. You want to we want to keep it healthy. What about avoidant and avoidant do they ever get together?
Yes, they can.
Their arguments. Just imagine the rug would be like this because they swept everything under the ru.
Well, exactly. Yeah, the problem. The problem with those relationships is that there's really not a lot of communication going on about what they're feeling. And I think people who are avoidant can really struggle to even identify what they're feeling because they're so used to pushing their emotions down and suppressing them because they don't know how to actually
manage their emotions when they come up. So if you have two people who are doing that, it might seem like on paper, on surface level, that things are fine, things are chill, because there's not really any arguments going on. But what would happen over time is I think both people in that relationship would feel very isolated. Most likely they're just really comfortable in that dynamic and they just want to stay like that.
Imagine a relationship with two secure people.
What does that look like?
Yeah, what does that look like?
That looks like two people who know themselves, two people who want the relationship to work, who are comfortable holding space for each other's emotions, who are in integrity, so they say they do what they say they're going to do. They hold space for their partner. So if their partner is experiencing something. They're feeling anxious, they're feeling upset. It's you know, yet, like we said earlier, they're not put
off by that. They're able to just be there for their partner and give them support and just understand what they're going through. And you work together as a team, like you know that when you're vulnerable together, it actually makes you stronger, it doesn't push you apart.
Before we move on, we need to touch on disorganized because I've never heard of the disorganized attachment style. Can you take us through what that means?
Yeah? So I guess if we look at anxious and avoidant for context, So someone who's anxiously attached in a relationship is typically seeking a lot of external validation. They need a lot of reassurance in the relationship that everything's okay, and that's their coping mechanism, so they'll turn to their partner to sue their anxieties. Someone who's avoidant needs the opposite.
So when they're stressed or there's conflict going on, they typically want space and they push away like I just need to deal with this on my own, Give me space. Someone who's disorganized is going to be a sort of erratic blend of the two. So there's an argument, there's conflict, and the disorganized attachment person sort of doesn't know what they want, Like they might try to get really close and then all of a sudden they're like no, no, no, and they push away and they stone wall their partner
and then they come crawling back really quickly. So they're sort of all over the place and very disregulated. And Yeah, what.
Would form someone to do that? What traumas or how would their primary caretaker have done that to them? What sort of triggers.
That Typically it's people who have this attachment style have been through a very traumatic childhood. Yeah, so if we talk about things like big T trauma, so that's when there might have been physical or emotional abuse in the family, are really really difficult divorce, being abandoned, so just being left by your parents really big T trauma. Things like that would probably cause it.
Okay, let's talk a little bit about love languages. What are the love languages?
Love languages we have physical touch, words of affirmation, acts of service quality type yes, yes?
And do we need to have the same love languages as our partner? Could this be a deal breaker? In relationships, talk us through that.
You don't have to have the same ones. I think it's helpful if you do, right, because if you have someone who let's say you have one person in the relationship, they experience love through words of affirmation and then their partner the way they express love is through gift giving, right that, And I can give you as many gifts as you would ever dream of. But because that's not your love language. The way you receive love, it doesn't mean anything to.
You receive it and give it in two different ways.
Can you receive it and give it in two different ways?
So, like I receive love through affection and words of validation, but I give it through physical touch and quality time. But I guess I feel that's how.
I feel personally about your experience, and I feel like I'll take it through physical touch as well.
I'll take it through.
No, I mean I'll take them all.
No, I'm not. I'm not big on gift giving both ways. I get uncomfortable getting gifts, and I don't really enjoy giving gifts. Like I feel uncomfortable as well. I'm like, like, do you like it? Don't give flowers or notes or something like that. But am I going to go out of my way to get like a gift like partners that you know buy me like stuff and I'm just like like five and doll stuff and I'm just like.
I don't know now, Yeah, yeah, I think in my experience, how you receive love is probably mostly how you'd give it, right, because you're kind of giving like what you maybe hope to get back. But I think it varies. The most important thing is understanding how your partner receives love. So if you know that they feel the most love from you when you tell them how you feel, rather than just showing them through acts, then that's an opportunity for you to Okay, I know that means a lot to her.
I know that means a lot to him, So I can make a conscious effort to do that so that they feel loved. Yeah, right, So it's just understanding your partner and what they need.
You love, acts of service.
I think I love them all. I think I'm the.
All touch acts, gifts, gifts.
Physically I think like it, Like you know, like gifts for like a special occasion is how I would receive love.
Would accent service and gifts? I don't, I don't.
I'm with you. I would rather my loved ones or to give me, like a really heartfelt card words to me. I'm like, give me that any day over a random present, and that's how I give it. So I despise buying gifts of people for their birthdays because I just I hate doing it. I enjoy it what to get people. But I will write you the nicest card. You'll be in tears just.
The same thing. Yeah, I mean, if I seek something that I clearly know they want, I'll get it.
But like, imagine someone you're in bed on a Saturday morning and then your partner goes out and gets your fresh coffee.
Service. Everyone loves that.
I love that. That's like hitting the spot.
From I think I'd appreciate it. I'd really appreciate it, like how good is the coffee?
But like, so you do like service?
No, No, I wouldn't be like, oh my god. I would have been, oh my god, they're in love with me. Like say, for instance, we rocked up to the studio and you guys had me a coffee. I would have be like, oh, they're the coin, Like.
Thanks, So what would make you feel? Like? Really thought of.
Physical physical touch probably as well as words, but just quality time, knowing like I like to hang out quality and just to hang out quality time.
Being in the same space together.
I've heard. So obviously, if we have all of our preferences and then because they're our preferences, we kind of do that in return to our partner. But if we don't know them well, like, for instance, Matt would not find getting a coffee potentially like you like it, but.
It's not your for instance, be my partner will go to one of us will go to the gym in the morning, and the otherum will bring a coffee back to the other person. But to me, that's just not an active So.
That's just Yeah, So what I'm saying is is I think that I've I saw something that said that people go wrong in relationships when they give someone what they want as opposed to knowing what your partner needs or wants.
Yeah, definitely, because yeah, like we said before, if you're if you like I love buying gifts of people, like I'm just going to shower my partner with gifts because it makes me feel so good And if I buy you gifts, it means I love you, right, And so you're doing that you have the best of intentions. But again, if your partner, if what really means the most of them is hearing you say how much they mean to you,
like hearing you say how much they love you. Then the gift giving it might be like, oh, that's really nice, but it's not like it's not giving.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, let's pivot back to relationships. We hear the word I was in a toxic relationship very often, specifically in modern day dating. Do you think that relationships are getting worse or are we just getting more switched on and klue about what we want to accept and what we.
Don't setting our standards higher boundaries.
I would say almost yes and no. I think on the one hand, we are getting we are more aware, and it's less taboo to talk about our emotional experiences in relationships these days. So you know, in the past, you know, for our parents and generations before them, it was very common to not talk about your emotions, and you know, you just if you get sad, you like, come on, just get on with it, like let's get on with the day, and you suppress your emotions, and
that was sort of the norm. So I would say there was probably a lot of toxic relationships or unhealthy dynamics in the past. It just wasn't spoken about. Yeah, So that's on the one hand, But on the other I do think that, like we mentioned earlier, with the with dating apps and with social media, and with the perceived amount of availability or what you can have in a person, I think there's a lot of sort of
disposing of people. As soon as you experience one thing you don't like, or there's one thing that makes you uncomfortable, it's like, oh, well, onto the next you mustn't be for me. So there's a lack of perseverance in getting to know the person and building the found like a strong foundation.
That makes sense, Yeah, yeah.
Do you think that people stay in toxic relationships longer than they should?
Mostly?
Yes, And how can they not do that?
Well, it's it's the nature of a toxic relationship is what makes you stay. So when we're in there's a relationship where let's say there's a highly anxious, highly avoidant, we could say that's toxic, and what's actually going on is there's a real like chemical addiction that's happening in the body. So for someone who's anxious when there's a conflict, you'll get this spike in cortisols. It's like the stress
hormone and adrenaline in your body. You're freaking out, Your nervous system is all over the place, and you are so desperate to get that person's connection to come back to you and to get their love. When you finally do get it, you get this huge flood of dopamine and oxytosein like the love hormone. So that spiral like that's up and down is really addictive. It's been said to be the same as like a heroin addiction, like
really high highs, really low lows. So it's not that people are just weak or have like not enough willpower to leave a toxic relationship. It's like you're literally addicted to the cycle. So yeah, a lot of people stay in them longer than they should. But I think it's because they just they don't know any better. Yeah, they just think that this is what relationships are, this is what's normal. Like I can figure it out, and there's
a thing called forget the term. But it's like when you are let's say, as a child, your parents were very emotionally unavailable, so you never knew, like if they were going to be there for you when you needed them to emotionally. And so as an adult, you have this subconscious drive to want to like win the game, to almost master it. So you keep attracting people who are emotionally unavailable because you think, if I just try hard enough, if I just do enough, I'll crack it
and I'll win them over. So there's this, Yeah, a lot of it is driven subconsciously.
Yeah, Okay, speaking of toxic relationships, we need to touch on setting boundaries. I feel like as a society we have gotten so much better at setting boundaries in workspaces with friends, but I feel like in relationships sometimes people still really struggle. Why do you think that is.
The biggest reason is that you there's a fear of abandonment. So you think if I set a boundary, it's just going to push my partner away and I'm going to lose love. So you don't set boundaries. You just let people take whatever they want from you, cross your boundaries. Because Yeah, I think for a lot of people, the fear of losing their partner just outweighs the desire to create like a healthy, respectful relationship.
Yeah, but then I guess would we say to those peop people, if you don't set the boundaries early on, then you're not with someone who respects and cares about you.
Yeah. Yes, And I think it comes with really learning how to set boundaries in your life, even before a relationship or outside a relationship. Yeah, and with yourself. I always say that you teach people how to treat you by the way you treat yourself. So if you uphold boundaries that protect your time, protect your energy, and you really maintain them, then people are naturally going to see
that in you. They're going to say, Okay, this is someone who takes herself seriously, who doesn't fuck around, So I need to make sure i'm like rising to meet that I need to respect her boundaries. So a boundary, instead of looking at as looking at it as something that pushes people away, you're actually if you set boundaries to the people, it's sort of an act of love because you're telling people I care about you, I want
you in my life. So if you want to be in my life, this is how to do it, Like this is how to love me, this is how to be around me. As long as you protect these like we're good, and I'm going to give you the best of me because my energy and time are going to be protected.
Yeah. Absolutely. Let's just say you're in a relationship and you haven't set good boundaries and you realize, maybe a little bit too late, that fuck, I need to actually start setting boundaries and following through with them. Can you still do that or does it need to happen from the start.
No, I'd say it's never too late. Okay, it's never too late to set a boundary. Yeah. And as something that is very common that can happen is when you start setting boundaries, you'll notice some people in your life will really hate it because they might lose certain access to you. They can't just have you at their disposal whenever they want. And if there's a big uproar when you do set a boundary, it's probably a sign that it was really needed. Yeah, So it's not too late,
you know. I think no one's perfect and it can take time to realize like, oh, I'm actually feeling really fucking depleted in this relationship. Why It's because I don't have boundaries here, here, and here. So you know, hopefully you're with someone who is open to always open to growing in the relationship, and it's just about having that conversation, setting the boundary, and then the biggest part is following
through and maintaining it. Like you said earlier, Matt, if you don't maintain the boundary, people will see that and they will test you whether it's weakness. Yeah, And a lot of the time it's not that it's malicious or it's intentional. It's just that people will naturally want to be selfish and get what they can from someone that they love. So if you're letting people across your boundaries, like, that's on you as well.
Yeah. Absolutely, Obviously. I know that a lot of people fall into the people pleaser category and you don't want to put boundaries down even with friends, because you feel like you could come across as rude or cold. What would you say to those people, I.
Would say that if you're you know, the most important relationship you have is the one you have with yourself. And if you are overgiving just to make everyone else happy, like you only have so much energy you can give and you're going to reach a point of burnout, you're not going to be happy. Yeah, So if you can take care of yourself, like that's when you get to give people the best of you, not the rest of you.
You're not just pouring from an empty cup. So don't be afraid to take care of yourself and set boundaries. And it's a great way to find out who your real people are, like the friends of your real friends, and also in a romantic relationship, because people who truly love you and want to be around you will respect your boundaries. Yeah, so I.
Couldn't agree more for it. Should we finish with a thumb one?
Yeah? What is the most ridiculous piece of dating advice or a relationship advice that you've been given or received that works? Yeah, but we don't want to give people stuff that doesn't work.
You know.
You could say dates.
Actually you said this earlier and one time, so years ago, when I was very anxious on dates, a friend of mine said, you just need to show up like you're the prize. And at first was like, what do you mean? Like that sounds so conceited. I don't want to walk in there thinking I'm like hot shit, I don't want to you know, have this huge ego, And she's like, no, it's not about that, It's just about flipping your focus
when you're on the dates. So rather than going in and being really self conscious wondering like am I good enough for this person? They like me? And my pretty enough? Am my interesting enough? Whatever? To flip the focus and ending like you're the prize so that you can look at this person and say, well, are they good enough for me?
Yeah, that's what we say on that Yes, are they.
Aligned with what I want? You know, do they have the qualities I'm looking for? And it's not to say that you're better than anyone, it's just to you know, you're the prize, like boost your esteem a little bit and just see if other people are good enough for you, And it definitely works.
Mamie, thank you so much. This has been amazing. We've learned so much. I hope this has been super helpful for you guys, and make sure you go check out Mami's podcast and next time.
Bye bye, thank you, thank you for coming.
One mm hmm