Kelsey Grammer

I certainly used to love partying with you. Oh, yeah. We had some fun. I was way too chicken. Oh, my God. Welcome back to Where Everybody Knows Your Name. Today on the show, Woody and I had the joy of speaking with a beloved colleague, Kelsey Grammer. Haven't sat down and talked to him for years. And Woody's in Budapest at the moment shooting a film, but he was able to zoom in. I mean, that's the amazing thing about Cheers. It was so much fun to do. And it was.

you know, the beginning of our careers, basically all of us. And we shared so many experiences and so many laughs. The bond is so thick that... As soon as you sit down, you know, it's like 40 years ago and like we hadn't missed a beat. So I've had the best day talking to them. Frasier fans, rejoice. Season two of the Frasier reboot. is streaming now on Paramount+. Here they are, Woody Harrelson and Kelsey Grammer. It's so strange. Here we are.

We, uh, the three of us spent, what, eight, at least eight years together. Yeah, I was on a show for nine. Nine. Woody came in the... The third year, right? Right. Yeah, so yeah. And every day making each other giggle, laugh, sharing our lives. And I know squat about you, really. Well. I mean, no, I mean. But I know what you mean, yeah, yeah. Compared to the body of your work is just astounding. Thank you. Theater, films, the work. Yeah, all that, yeah. Books. Yeah, books, yeah. Anyway.

We should reminisce first. Yeah, we should. Well, you were a theater guy. No. Weren't you? I tried to be a theater guy. Yeah, wasn't... Didn't Kathy McGrath do Cheers once? Weren't you in a production with her previously? I remember that because I'd done some Shakespeare with her, so we were old pals when she came and did Cheers. It was just so funny. We had a bit of a relationship on and off again. Just recently, we watched the rerun, and Kate said,

You know, how do you know her? Here we go again. Indictment for 35 years before. It just never goes away. And my go-to is to immediately get embarrassed and lie. I realized that wasn't going to do me any good. It just never does. I'm just riffing now. It's a similar story.

You know, I used to have a sailboat. I used to have it during Cheers and definitely during Fraser and went sailing all the time. I'd go twice a week when we were in the beginning years of Fraser. And when I met Kate, I finally said, you got to come see the boat.

It's my pride and joy. And so I took her down to the marina and stepped aboard. And I said, come on, babe, you know, step on board. And I helped her up. I went and pulled the hatch open and slid it forward and went down the ladder, stepped into the cockpit. Or down below in the galley. And from behind me, I hear a voice that says, have you ever had sex on this boat? I just froze. And I thought, what could I possibly say? I had to vote for 25 years.

I just bit it and turned around and looked her in the eye and I said, yes. And she said, well, then I'm not going out on it. Hey. So I sold the boat. But, you know, more power to her. It was the right thing. You guys are together and having many kids for a good reason. Yes, exactly. She's the sacred relationship I was looking for. No, it is great. I will say about Kate, it's like finding the holy grail, just like Teddy. It's like Jimmy, like you guys, you know, you had some love. Oh, yeah.

Sometimes as well. And then you just hit the jackpots, you know, with Debbie and Mary. Thanks, buddy. Hey, let's throw Laura in there. And Laura, too. We watched... Back to the Future 3 last night at home with the kids. Ah! Yeah. Saw Mary, of course. Yeah. You know, hanging off of a steam engine. She was so proud of that moment because...

She did all of the stunt right up until the transfer. Smart. That would have been foolish. That's good. She's lovely in it. She's so good in it. They're wonderful in that movie. You know, the two of them. The love is really something. It's really wonderful to see. Yeah, and just because you didn't say his name, I just totally blanked on his name. Lloyd, Lloyd. Christopher Lloyd. Christopher Lloyd. Yeah.

That's so funny. We should just talk about co-stars and see if all three of us have worked with them. Well, you know what? Actually, that's not a bad idea. I bet we cross in quite a few places. But Christopher Lloyd and I are actually related. Did you do a follow your roots, kind of find your roots? Kate punches it in him once in a while. People who are related to other people, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And because I did do that show.

Who do you think you are? Right, with Lisa. Yeah. Yeah. They got my 23, you know. They got them. So it keeps coming up. It goes all the way. Christopher Lloyd's in there. Meghan Markle's in there. Henry VIII is in there. It's pretty funny. It goes way back. Yeah. You and I, once you connect into either church or royalty, the paper trail goes forever. Yeah, it's huge. Yeah. Yeah. That's our latest. If you're like Mary, who's... She did find your roots and her big thing wasn't.

God, I hope we don't have slavery in our family, which at that time, people were ducking that like crazy. Hers was, oh, dear God, don't let me be boring. And the first thing came out was, do you know what your great-grandfather did? No. And you're on camera, so you have to get excited. No, what? He was a woodchopper. Ah, that's about it. She's going, shoot me now. It got better. It got better. That's funny.

Yeah. Woody, what are you eating, buddy? You're on camera, you know, we can see you. I'll stop right now. Stopping right now, Teddy. So do you enjoy paprikash over there? You enjoying the paprika? I mean, the Hungarians are really good at it. The paprika? Yeah. You know, Hungarian paprika. It's paprika. Yeah, but it's mostly on meat, right? Red pepper. Yeah, mostly on meat. Oh, that's right. He's doing the raw. Well, you should still use the spice, buddy.

It's local spices. No, I can't wait to get some of that. Yeah, no, straight away, straight away. There we go. All right, just for fun, because people... I wish I was there, man. I wish you were, too. And can I go back to, because, you know, I didn't know until I was researching that you went to this.

This preparatory school in Fort Lauderdale, and that's where you started singing and dancing. That's right. Pinecrest, yeah. Pinecrest Preparatory School. At age what? 14. Yeah, so tell me about it. What was it? How was it? I mean, was it like hard to get in? Well, I don't actually know. I was a smart kid when I was little, you know, when I was younger.

put that to rest after i reached adulthood but uh my uh my grades were always good i was always in the honor roll when i was a boy so it was easy for me to get into those kind of places and uh I had a pretty good record. In fact, when I came from New Jersey, I went to sixth grade in New Jersey to a place called Rumson Country Day School. And that was a year ahead of Pinecrest. So when I got to seventh grade, I basically coasted for a year. And that may have been it.

A mistake. But in eighth grade, a guy came to school named Richard Mitten was his name. Fabulous guy. He's no longer with us. But he walked into every classroom and he said, I want every boy in here to come and audition for a choir. So we all thought, well, what the hell, okay. And went in, and most of the boys sang, Yesterday, all my troubles seem so far away. And we'd come out, and he said,

What's your voice? And he said, oh, you're a lyric tenor. Or you're a this. And I was a bass baritone. So that was when I started singing. And we started a thing. There was a thing called The Singing Pines because of Pinecrest. So we wore tuxedos. roughly, you know, frilly little shirts and stuff. At one point, we rescinded the hair code because I was on the 10th grade student council, and we got rid of the hair code. So we all grew our hair out.

Then the next year, a new guy came in and said the hair coat was reinstated. So I asked if they would mind if I wore a wig, and they said, well, no, as long as the hair doesn't go over the collar. So I went down and bought a Jane Fonda wig, which was basically the haircut from Barbarella. And I took it home and I cut off the back of it. And I wore it over my hair. I put it in a ponytail and put it on top of my head, stick the wig on top of that.

They weren't embarrassed to have me walking around looking like that, so I wasn't embarrassed either. It was pretty awful. You came from music, right? I mean, your mom was a singer. My mom and dad were musicians, yeah. And your father was a musician? So was that not foreign to you? Were you around that? Well, you know, my mom had us do some piano lessons when we were pretty young. Took us to tennis lessons.

Swimming. We used to swim a lot. Pinecrest was a big swimming school, and I started swimming there. I did the diving team for a while. But it was a huge school. It was a school where the coach of the women's Olympic team was. coach there. And he was a big deal, Jack Nelson. We had a kid there, Andy something, who was the first swimmer to prove that the butterfly was actually faster than the crawl.

which was amazing. And he set state and world records for a while. So it was a school of overachievers. It was a great place to go to school, honestly. And then I went to Juilliard out of there, and they were all very impressed at that. And, of course, I got thrown out, and they were all very sad about that. Yeah, you got thrown out for a reason, though. Can we back up just a little bit? Yeah. I know you're writing a book about some of the tragedy in your life, in your family.

which we can talk about or not later, but you had a lot going on as a kid in your family. Yeah. Do you think there's any sense of finding harbor in creativity because of having to deal with? Good question. Divorce and death and all of that. What's great is, I mean, I did finish the book on my sister. It's just called Karen, and it'll be published pretty soon. We're working on the final draft and pictures now.

Well, mention it. Do you want to talk about it now? Yes, sure. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I stepped away from that right now. I just have to do some notes that they're going to try to give me. I mean, I'm pretty, you know, recalcitrant. I'm not going to really change the book a lot at this point. But it does cover most of the stuff that you're asking about. So in the early days, my mom and dad divorced when I was two and a half, basically. I moved in with my grandfather, Gordon.

He was my light. In the book, I actually discover, as I've never really quite enumerated it, I've never really said that I actually came here, I think, for my grandfather to be his son. And I was. And that was great. But then, of course, he died when I was 12. And that was a big, big hit. That took the air right out of us.

A couple of years later, that was the year we actually started at Pinecrest. And then a couple of years later, my dad got shot. And I didn't really know him very well. I'd gotten to know him a little bit. As a young adult or when you were a kid? When I was 12. When I was 12, just after Gordon died. Gordon's my granddad. My dad got— Was that political? That was a political— I always thought that— You know what it was, honestly? And suffocant government. Yeah, he was a bit of a...

Loudmouth, I guess you could say. He had a radio show down in the Virgin Islands. And he taught a lot of fairly famous reggae guys and calypso music guys, gave him music lessons. He was killed by a taxi cab driver who, it was a couple days after Martin Luther King was shot. And so there was a political overtone to it. Where are we? St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands.

But I heard years later that they actually drew straws who was going to kill them. So it was that sort of a strange, you know, grouping there. There's a... I don't know the full story of it. There's the Arawaks and the Caribs down in the Virgin Islands and in that Caribbean area. Some are...

One side apparently was always very violent and the other side was always very peaceful. But so once in a while, every few years, there's kind of like a surge in whatever it is. I mean, maybe it's bigger than us. Maybe it's some sort of rhythmic. tide that comes into people's beings and then they go on a bit of a rampage and maybe he got swept under some of that. My buddy John Miller's dad was shot in St. Croix.

one year on a golf course. It was a famous incident, but, you know, they took a machine gun and killed like three golfers. It was just, you know, it's just odd stuff. Right. Wow. So you're with your mom at that point? Mom and Gam and Karen, yeah. Yeah, the three women. And even though you had just kind of reunited with your dad? Yeah, it was really only the one meeting. We saw him for one dinner.

just about six months before he was killed. Can you think back to that 12-year-old, 13-year-old? I mean, I put my adult brain and go, oh my God, what a hit. to my life, who I am, or what does this mean about life? Was there... Did you put weight other than the tragedy of losing your father? Did it start to inform you in some way? No, no. You know, what did happen was I was a math student. I was really good at math. And then...

The death of Gordon and the subsequent loss of my dad and stuff like that. It just seemed like those were the turning points for me to start moving toward art. I do think that happened as a result of that. Let me turn that off. Is that another job? Yeah. No, it's just bad news. More bad news. Never stop. But it was, that turned me toward art.

Shakespeare turned me toward art the first time I read. Julius Caesar turned me toward the idea that, you know, there's a way to sort of endure the whips and scorns of time, you know. and do it with dignity. And that was, you know, whatever dignity I've been able to muster. Tons, my friend. Thank you. Woods knows. No, I mean, it just seems like it.

An unnatural amount of calamity, you know. Yeah. Between. Yeah, there was that. Your half-brothers. Yeah, early death. Yeah, my half-brothers in a shark attack. That was strange, yeah. That was in the Virgin Islands, too. And they, of course, the city, they went and caught a bunch of sharks after that. And there was one of them they caught that actually fit the bite marks, fit the scarring on their diving equipment. And they didn't want to know about it, so they covered it up.

because of tourism. But I've got a letter about that. And were you close with them? No, no. I hardly knew them. I got to know them a little bit when... when gordon died afterward when during that visit and then they came up and visited once after dad was gone right and uh i was the oldest child so i sort of sort of filled in a little bit of a male

presence thing for them a little bit, but not really. And your sister was alive when you're... Carrie was with us, yeah, yeah. She died just before she turned 19. And you were how? I was 20. So you were at Juilliard? I'd been at Juilliard, just got thrown out. All right, before we get to Karen, if that's okay. Yeah, that's fine. You say that with a good laugh. So why did you get thrown out? Well, I'm still trying to figure it out. I think it was because I wasn't going to acting class.

Being in acting school, that might do it. Why? I didn't really like the guy that was teaching the class. Because it seemed to me he was a lot more interested in the girls in the class than the boys. And I thought, well, you know what? Okay. I'm not going to cast aspersions past that. I've actually talked about this in the book some. He taught me a couple of things, quite by chance, that stayed with me.

which is kind of fascinating. And I've written about that in the book. So the book about Karen is basically about me as well, our time, sort of our corresponding time. together and in the same lane and in our different lanes. Right. Until, of course, she was taken. And how I have carried her ever since.

And that's really what the book is about. I discovered a lot of things I didn't know about. What do you mean, say more about Carried Her? Carried Her with me. She's been with me in my heart ever since then. You know, always. All things were about Karen in a lot of ways. My ability to move on in life was hindered by the loss of her, but also my sense of sticking with things was also colored by the fact that Karen had been taken and that I wasn't going to quit.

It was due in large part to some of her. Some of our story together. We were really close. We were a close brother and sister. Maybe made closer by the fact that Gordon died so young. Half the things I got to discover in writing the book was, and it was a great, it's been two and a half years I worked on it, was how connected she was to other people in the family. And I had actually had the arrogance of my own story. It was always like, oh, I'm...

I lost Gordon, and I realized for the first time, well, so did she. And that was a great discovery for me, because they were closer than any two people I've ever seen in my life. And it was a beautiful thing to see. And then it was also beautiful to understand that it must have really broken her, too. And that was a hard time for both of us. What's the name of the book? Do you have one yet? Karen. Just Karen, yeah.

And that's, I don't know, months before. It's ready to publish, honestly. I don't know what they're waiting for. Wow. Good for you for writing. It's like. It's really cool that you've taken this journey because I know for myself, I tend to, anything that's too hot an issue, I just try to avoid it at all costs. Yeah. I admire you for just doing this, dude. It's amazing. Thanks, man. It was a great experience for me. It was really wonderful.

My wife was really supportive of it. You know, I'd walk in. I mean, for a while, I was like not available. I mean, through some of it. And she'd say, what are you doing? I said, you know, and she'd say, okay, do what you got to do. Yeah. But I could always pull myself out a couple hours a day was what I was doing. And then I'd be with the kids and working some. Well, you amaze me because not everybody.

gets hit in life with as many really earth-shattering stuff that you have. And I know you went through a period where we all knew you, where I guess it was... You could say, or is it trite to say, self-medicating? Yeah, I think that's probably right. I think it's just self, it was engineering escape. That's really what it was. I mean, medicating.

Yeah, it was more radical than medicating. Yeah, it was radical. And listen, some of the stories are great stories. I mean, I had a wonderful time in the midst of it, which is kind of... because that sort of lust for life thing is part of what drove it as well. But, you know, then you realize, well, there's only so many of these you can keep doing. without just finally just collapsing. And yeah, I got pretty close on it a couple times. That's how we grew to know and love.

You was partly during that period, which when you say it wasn't all bad or whatever, it was magnificent from my vantage point. I certainly used to love partying with you. Oh, yeah. We had some fun. I was way too chicken. You know, I remember. Do you remember that time we went to Idaho? Absolutely. I was just thinking about it. No, because I relieved myself just before I came in. And honestly, as I was sitting there, I thought to myself, I remember that time.

in the men's room in McCall, Idaho with Woody. And I was talking about how beautiful America is and how wonderful Americans are and how they embrace the extraordinary. We are a group of people that love exceptional behavior. And that's... That's who we are. I remember talking about Olga Corbett. This little kid from Romania, wherever she was from, comes in and blows people away. It's the first 10 in the history of the Olympics in gymnastics. And America loved her.

What was her name? Nadia Comaneach. Oh, Comaneach. Oh, was it Comaneach was first? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. But it was just amazing. And I realized this sort of monologue that I delivered from... from the throne on this day with Woods. We were in some club somewhere and it was just a magnificent memory for me. And then, you know, you, I mean, just the greatest time.

It was so fun. We were actually gone, Teddy, I don't know if you remember, because there was someone connected to Cheers. The sound guy. The sound guy. Cheers, yeah. And he was doing a radio station, and he said, we come do an interview and blah, blah, blah. Of course, we come guns blazing. Yeah, we barreled into Idaho. We were going hard. And they know how to go hard in Idaho. They do. But I do remember that in the bathroom so well because I remember at the time I was so.

upset about America and all the, I mean, you gotta, you gotta separate America, the people from America, the government, which the government's properties, they never cease to amaze me. But then, you know, when we were there, you know, I was conflating everything. And you were like, no, America, Americans, you know. And that speech had a huge impact on me.

I still believe that about us. I really do. Me too. I follow the goodness. I've been doing this sort of... He's called an angel healer, this guy. And just recently in one of our sessions, he... He said, well, I asked the angels one time, I asked them, you know, what's the ratio of really, really crappy people to really good people? And he said, honestly, it's about 70-30, which is, you know, 70 is good.

Oh, that sounds about right. And we both sort of laughed a little bit and said, I've spent a lot of time in the 30s. It's because 30s are drawn to people. of great passion and success. And, you know, we arguably have all sustained that, you know, or achieved that. And the 30s are around. in these areas. Yeah, you used to hang out. You used to hang out with some very questionable folks. I had a good batch. I remember. Yeah, I had a good batch. You're just about two steps ahead of the law.

I'm listening to you, and I feel like people can see that I'm actually wearing a nun's habit. I am so safe in my world. I go, oh, no, no, no, no. Thanks. I'll catch up with you later. I'll meet you in Idaho, but I won't actually get on the plane. Yeah. I always thought you should have been on the plane once in a while. I know! I should have. I've heard some good things in the world, you know, good stuff, you know. Yeah. And met great people, too.

But that's, I always believed in the 70. I always thought the 70 were, that's who we are. And you know what? Because the who you are is you're, a flood comes through and, or you're, no, you're having an argument. about whether there's climate change or not. And then a flood comes through and everybody drops their point of view and rescues each other and has so human.

their bounty of love and caring and nurturing, and they pull people out of the water. Don't ask each other what your politics are, what your belief system is. Not at that time. But, you know. I mean, maybe we're getting there. Maybe we're getting to where like. Excuse me before I pull you out of there. Who'd you vote for? Oh, sorry. Let him go. You know, one of my first, going back a little bit to reminisce about Cheers, you showed up full blown as, you know, Frasier Crane.

And you were just magnificent. Always were. But you walked in kind of like Woody. You both walked in and hit a home run the first time we saw you. You know, first time in the audience. But my personal memory of that time, those first, we were basketball players or so we thought. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know, right. Perhaps Woody was, but.

But we all, you know, thought of ourselves. And we would play vicious basketball with each other right before we were supposed to run and start performing. But you, on this asphalt playing basketball court. were barefoot. Yeah. You played barefoot. I grew up in Florida. With the flattest shoes, feet I've ever seen in my life. Flattest feet in history. I still have them, yeah. Dead flat. Dead flat. Suction on wet floors.

Yeah. How did you do that? I don't know. You know what? That beachcomber thing. Yeah. I mean, my feet were really tough back then. I mean, I'm still, I'm talking to a guy like on Monday about getting my feet fixed. Finally. Here's another example of you two renegades. Renegades is your motorcycles. Oh, yeah. Both of you. Woody, who I saved his life the other day, came in wounded from a very serious... I heard something about this. Yeah, very serious. I thought, what the hell?

But you. The last vestige. Oh, there it is. So did you land on your hand? Is that what happened? I landed on this hand, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, man. That's tough. It would have been much worse. I tell you, I ended up very, very lucky. Yeah, I got it. But speaking of luck, you used to jump on your motorcycle, if I remember correctly, in shorts, a t-shirt, and flip-flops. Absolutely. And roar off to work, where we were always about 15 minutes late. About 15, yeah.

But didn't you get run off the road once by somebody who was pissed off? Oh, God, yeah. In New York City, that happened. It happened a couple of times around. The country, I mean, I crossed country a couple of times. There was one trucker I was drafting off of him. He didn't like me doing that. So he would drive off into the shoulder a little bit and spray pebbles on my face.

You know, 100 miles an hour. I thought, oh, this is fun. I actually saw him pull into a truck stop. I followed him. I walked up to him at the counter where he was having breakfast. I said, excuse me. I understand that you have an issue about this. I said. Honestly, I'm trying to make the next couple hundred miles in as little stress as possible. Drafting off of you was really helping me. Would you mind if maybe we arranged this so we're both happy about it? And he said,

No. Okay. I'd be glad to help you. Damn. That's that good part about Americans. That's what's in there. But by the way, yeah, that's the good part about Americans. You as an American, like, you know, me, I just would have walked up and shouted at the guy, you know? Or worse. You know, like I love how you can.

It's amazing how you can do that. Well, I love people. And I love Americans. You know, this is the thing. I really do love them. That's the right way. I don't think maybe Woody's is the right way. And mine certainly isn't. I would have gone up and apologized for getting in the way of his gravel. One time Woody and I were in London. We went to some club. What was it called? Was it called the Palladium?

No, it was the hippodrome. Hippodrome. Okay, so the hippodrome. So Woods and I are kind of trying to get in, and this girl says something about, I don't know what happened to sort of lit her off a little bit, but, you know, English people and Americans, we're still having trouble with that. She looked at Woody and said, well, that's rude. And he said, oh, yeah. How's this for rude? And he grabs a handful of candies right in front of her and sort of throws them.

And I said, oh, shit. And I saw these two huge Cockney guys start moving toward woods. And I said, we're out of here. Let's go. We got to get down. So they just decked them. What you didn't know is I came. I was there and I came in after you guys and picked up all the candy and bought them some more and apologized profusely. It was lovely. I'm so fucked. Well, we had fun there too.

All right. Here's another, this is all things Kels. Okay. Here's one of the things about you that I hope is not as incredible as it used to be. Cause it would still piss me off. Your photographic memory of, you would walk through rehearsals at Cheers with a script in your hand because you genuinely didn't know the lines. Up until then you would go have dinner and you'd come back and we'd start performing and it would be word comma.

perfect. And we all kind of marvel. How the fuck did you do that? And you would do it also when, if I might say, under the influence during that period. And you're... You look like you couldn't possibly get through a performance. You turn around and come back and be astoundingly brilliant. Thank you. What is that brain thing? Are you photographic memory?

It's probably just a muscle that approximates photographic, but it's not. If I have to, I can get it in there. I still do it. I do it at Frasier now because... You know, you play the same character for so long, like I have, and I just find it kind of more exciting to not be on book, to not know it, to sort of have a general idea. And because I played the role for so long now, I mean, I...

I pick better words than most of the guys can. And I trust that the process is going to actually spill out the best result. If it's a really good joke and it's written really well, I'll remember it. If it's one that is... I can trust to approximation and then sort of wait for the creative spirit to strike in the midst of it. I do that. So it's a kind of improvisational memorization, but it does unnerve people.

Yeah. My definition of a well-written joke is one that I can totally fuck up, and it's still funny. It's still funny. That's actually good. That's about it. This is a good definition. It was wild how, I mean, I guess it's okay. We broached the subject, but like you used to be under the influence of all these things and still, and, and, you know.

You know how it would kind of get you in a high state of, and then to see you just nail it. Yeah, energize. Yeah, let's say energize. And then to see you nail it was like, that's. What he just did was actually impossible. Like, I don't, I don't understand how he could do that. You know, because you didn't have this. Woody and I had the slow, dumb joke. We were the slow, dumb, funny joke. Oh, yeah, that's true. Frazier had to have the, yeah.

You were saying paragraphs of complicated shit and nailing it. You really were amazing. Well, I like language, you know. That was always a strong point for me. So, yeah, I guess, I mean, honestly. I did cocaine and booze. Those are the two things I did. I never did anything else, really. I mean, I was never into marijuana or, you know, some of the other stuff. So cocaine would jack you up, booze would slow you down. Somewhere in the middle is where I'd end up. But I always would go to bed.

There were a couple of times when I stayed up, oh, a couple of nights. But mostly I had, there was some sort of a governor that was saying, you got to go to bed now. You got to go to sleep. You got to catch up. You got to sleep. That was still working out most of the time. So I stayed fairly robust, even during a time of great sort of self-destruction. I have to

In fairness, in fairness, when you say you had this governor inside you saying go to bed, you'd go to bed at 6.30 in the morning. Yeah, get a couple hours and go. Get a couple hours in. That's it. Boom. Yeah, it's funny. A lot of people who can get away with what you did have the constitution of an ox. Yeah. I mean, your body, I know you had a moment where your body went, yo.

You guys just calm down. No more. Yeah, right, right, yeah. But by and large, how old are you now? Strong. 69. I mean, you're a magnificent beast. Thank you, sir. Thank you. You really are. Do you think it also had to do with, because I've always credited the way you would eat. Like you would, it would take you, you know, you'd just still be on your. First, you know, first mortal.

When we were done with our food. Yeah, that's true. Remember that, Teddy? I do. I do. I always savored food. He used to eat so slow, no rush. And I just felt like that kind of helped you. It probably did. It's a very good, very observant. I think that may actually be something. You may be onto something there. I mean, I've gone up and down with Wade a little bit.

But I think mostly that was probably booze. Actually, I think that was probably, you know, when my weight would balloon a little bit, it was like during a, I was on a traveling kind of spree. I was going to New York City a lot or whatever. I was in Manhattan.

A little bit of debauchery, a little bit of food, maybe a little overindulgence in that kind of stuff as well. And then I picked up some weight. And then I finally thought, no, I'm going to. So I weigh around 210 most of the time now. That's about where I like to be. whatever it is that's working thanks buddy yeah i wish you know i i make jokes and i swore to myself that i would not be the self-deprecating

guy, which is a problem I have, and I notice it on podcasts. It's like they spend hours trying to cut it out. But this isn't self-deprecating, but it's... I wish, I feel like I got stuck a little bit with you during the Cheers years. I have a memory of getting angry at you once. Yeah, you came and told me that one day. And it's stuck in both of our memories. But I feel like, fuck, I don't know. I feel like I missed out on the last 30 years of Kelsey Grammer. And I feel like it's my bad.

my doing. And I almost feel like apologizing to you. No, I don't feel like. I apologize to you and me that I sat back, you know, and didn't. And I really do apologize. Yeah. You said something wonderful to me, though, too, that I quote to other people. When I turned 40, you came up and you said, you know what it means, don't you? Now that you're 40. It means you're finally worth having a conversation with.

That was fucking brilliant. I always loved that. And I've repeated it. And my love for you has always been. as easy as the day, you know, as easy as the sunrise. Mine to you. You know, so, you know, whatever. What an amazing thing that time we all spent together. You can go off in different directions. You can have different lives. But that bond, that love of making something really funny and really good and cracking each other up and...

and going through life and still showing up. You know, like Jimmy said, I don't care what you crazy people do during the week. Just show up on shoot night and be funny. You know, just once. That's all I need. He recently said, you know, we were doing an interview together and he said, I always had the, you got to have an oar in the water. I'd never heard him express this before. He said, yeah, as long as everybody's, as long as everybody's got their oar in the water and their pollen.

then I'm happy. I thought, yeah, makes a lot of sense. And we're still working together. He's done, you know, he does four shows of the last bunch, and it's been great working with him. Yeah. He's like my daddy in show business, really. Probably all of ours to some extent. Yeah. Good question. Well, my God, what a man. What a fucking guy. Yeah. Amazing.

Yeah, so how many, have you started on your second season? We finished the second, so we've got 20 shows. I mean, it's so weird, this new sort of model of the streaming thing. Ten shows is all they kind of do. Oh. Oh, you already did. Yeah, we're finished. Second season, there are just 10 shows. Yeah, yeah. It's a little odd. So it's kind of like finishing the first season. So what's been fun about it is...

I've gotten to stand back and watch a little bit, and that cast is really coming together. They're really fun to watch. We've hit some stuff that I thought we might hit, but it happened faster than I anticipated, and the shows have been... It's as good as anything I've ever done. What's that like? I mean, you have this template, two or three different templates for Frasier. Is it hard to let go of your expectations or memories of what it...

You know, and compare it to others and let it be what it is? No, it's been easy for me. Oh, good. Yeah, because this one, you know, I was in the birthing room for this one. I was pulling the baby out of the... So literally in the writer's room. Yeah. So it's been really good. It's been really, really fun. I still leave the writers mostly alone, but in the very first draft of the pilot.

But we did a lot of back and forth for that. Speaking of kids. Yeah. Spencer. Spencer, yeah. We all met Spencer early on. 41 years old now. Kate, do you remember my daughter Kate? Of course. She's 44. Same boat, right? Yeah, yeah, fantastic. About to have a baby. Oh, good. Yeah.

Oh, good for her. Is this the first one? Yeah. Oh, no kidding. Wow. Very exciting. Oh, that's great. Well, it's great that people can have babies, you know, a little bit further along now. It's really lovely. Yeah. And we had, I mean, honestly, Kate and I, we got... We were pregnant three times before we had a baby. It was natural, and then we started to lose. We lost a couple of babies, and we thought, boy, this is tough. It's not good. But then God smiled on us, and we had him.

Beautiful girl named Faith, which is what did it. And then the two boys came along. And the second boy came along. We were twins originally with Faith, and then we lost. the boy when he was like 14 weeks and uh we had to do some stuff that was not not a good thing for us but uh

Uh, when Kate was pregnant the second time, you know, I said, I was kind of proud. I kind of got her, you know, you know, uh, I said, so what do you think we're having? And she said, if we're not having a boy, then everything I believe is bullshit. We had a boy.

And that's Gabriel. You had seven kids, right? Seven total. So really, lockdown was just like normal life. You had so many people around. Yeah, yeah, pretty much it was. Yeah, you know, some were coming and going. But yeah, our house is still full of kids. I mean, I got... I got my second child, Greer, is in the home with us. Jude's with us some of the time. He's 19. He's going off to Emerson College. In a couple of weeks, I'm going to drive him up.

Mason's now here, my 23-year-old. I think she's 23. I always add a year. They always get pissed off at me. But I think she's 23. And she's starting to work at the company now. So, you know, it's kind of like an apprentice kind of stuff doing production. I love that you said when you were describing your life, the ups and downs, but you're never happier than when you have all of your kids.

in the same room. And it's the truth. When we're surrounded by, we're 13 to table when you count spouses and grandkids and everything. It's the best. I don't do so well with the ex-spouse thing. We haven't really. tried to curry that. Oh, we nailed it. You guys did great. Well, I remember your vows with Mary. I mean, we're like, everybody's involved. I was so impressed by that. Everybody loved it.

Yeah, you're our family too. I thought, wow, that's great. Were you part of the chairlift that Jimmy Burrow started for us? Yeah. Both you guys are that. I remember it was one of the best moments, Mary said, in the entire wedding was when, I guess it's a Jewish tradition. It's a Jewish tradition, yeah, where they lift you up in a chair. But it was so tangibly.

being supported literally by people you love and who love you in that moment was so symbolic. Nice thing. Yeah, it's a wonderful thing. Yeah, it was a great event, Martha's Vineyard. It was a lovely, lovely event you guys put on. And it worked. Yeah, I know. That was fantastic. We met on a movie. You get the president as your best man or whatever. Well, yeah, there was all that going on. It cut down on paparazzi. Cruise missiles around.

Yeah, pretty amazing. Yeah, that was a good weekend. Are you guys living in Nashville? No, used to have a place there. Because Mary's writing music a lot. That's what I thought, yeah. That's a great story. How'd you meet Kate? We met on a flight to England. She was a flight crew for Virgin Atlantic. Of course, you make the move. Oh, yeah. Well, we were talking and we just ended up sort of chatting. I said, you know, what do you she made me a drink, you know, and I thought.

Boy, I'm in the mood for a B-52. Do you guys ever remember a B-52? Well, they didn't have those ingredients on the plane, but they did have Benedictine and brandy. And I thought, well, okay, that's a B&B, they call it. And I thought, yeah, put a little cream in that, a little bit of Kahlua. I think that's going to be a great drink. So we started.

with that and then we started talking. I got up to the, went to the bar on the plane and we talked through the night and arranged to, you know, have a coffee maybe a few days after I got there because I was going to see if I wanted to do La Cacheffold on Broadway. take the production from London to New York. And I...

Had to rehearse a little bit. We were going to do kind of a weird little commercial thing. Of course, I never saw it. It just seemed like a very odd thing to do. But so I was busy for a couple of days, and then I got a message at the hotel. Give Kate a call. So I gave her a call. What year is this? This is... 2009? Wow. Yeah, I think so. I think I was 54. It was great. It was just great. And, you know, I was in my previous relationship had gone kind of...

You know, I mean, there were some issues. There was some stuff going on that wasn't really fun or good. And I knew that it was probably going to have to end. I'd had a heart attack. That was not a great experience, but it was actually a very positive experience in the end. because it made me realize what I wanted. And I was doing a show called Hank at the time. Not very funny. And I knew it. And so we'd finished shooting the, I think I even directed it. I think it was the ninth episode.

It just wasn't funny. A terrific writer named Cawley had come from Everybody Loves Raymond. His rhythms and stuff like that were not mine. And there was just no way for us to gel. I couldn't make his stuff funny. He couldn't write funny for me. So that's what happened. And I called Peter over at Warner Brothers. We were at Warner Brothers at the time. And I said,

Peter, you got to put a bullet in this show. I mean, I'm sorry, man. It's not funny. We got to end this. He says, I have obligations. I got to shoot at least the first 13 and see what happens because I've got foreign I've sold it to and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he says, I'm sorry. I wish I could help you out. Literally.

The next morning, the head of ABC at the time called and put a bullet in it. Wow. And one hour later, I got a call from Bray Weiser in New York City. He says, what are you doing? Are you busy? I said, as it turns out. I'm not busy. And he said, I want you to fly to London and see this as this production for me. So in about eight hours, my whole life was going to change. And I knew it was. And I knew when I got on that plane that I was going to a new life.

And I met Cate. Wow. Yeah. I love that. It was pretty cool. Yeah, it was pretty great. Oh, and I'll go even further. This is fantastic. So what happened was we go for this cup of coffee. I'm in a bar. I'm at a hotel. At the time, it used to be the... It was the Mandarin Oriental. It had been the Hyde Park or something before that. And it used to have a great restaurant in it. That was gone. All that was over. It had been shifted into a kind of a new kind of Mandarin hipster.

kind of place. I walked in when I checked in, the concierge looks at me and there's about a six foot eight Russian girl with hardly any clothing on. And he looked at me and said, Mr. Grandma, you know. anything you'd like, anything at all. I was like, oh, dear. This is not going to go well if I accept this guy's offer. So I said, thank you very much. That's very kind of you. No, thank you. And I just headed up to my little room.

So as I came down to meet Kate for our drink, I looked in the bar, and it was just loaded with what clearly was a professional group. Hardworking. Yeah. I thought, there is no way I'm going to meet this girl here. Right. So I walked down on the street, and I just waited for her. I knew she'd be getting out of the tube stop right below Harvey Nichols. So I'm sitting there.

or standing there, rather, in the little median between the hotel and Harvey Nichols. And sure enough, she comes up, and I see her, and she stops and reapplies her lipstick. Then she's doing that. She notices I'm standing there. And she's like, oh, shit. And I said, listen, I don't want to take you for a drink in there. Let's go take a walk. And it was just before Christmas. So they had the Winter Wonderland thing that they do in Hyde Park.

We started walking toward the park and the snow started to fall. I looked at her and I said, this is just, this is too perfect. And we had our first kiss and, you know. We got together a while later. I don't really know her, but she looks beautiful. I love her smile. She's a great person. That's so cool. Well done. Thank you. And I love the stepping on the boat story.

And you know what? It's nice to have your mate care that much about you. No, I don't want to lose you. So here are the rules. It was great. Yeah. That was really great. I ran into you then, Kels, and you were just about ready to start that. I remember I was in London. Right. I had a sense that I met Kate then. You might have. You might have said hello then. Did we go have, we had a martini at the American Bar, right?

Yeah. How am I going to remember, dude? Okay. I think we did. If not, we did it later. Yeah, she probably was. But I didn't know she'd... You guys had just started that. Well, we actually, that was the prologue. And then we actually waited about seven or eight months, almost a full year before things really shifted.

By then, you know, my previous wife had gone off to, you know, she was involved with somebody else. Now it was fine. You know, that's what happened. That's okay. But I needed to make sure we did it. as possibly, as best as I could, because as I said to Kate when I first met her, I said, you're too important to be somebody's secret. And I don't want to do that to you. So we're going to have to play this above board and take our time. So we did.

It was a long time before we got, you know, actually, I guess the best word is consummated. But when we did, it was finally, that was a good thing. You know, it wasn't... It wasn't anything we had to, like, hang our heads about or even dodge, you know. So you, like, you had this discipline about this. You wanted to make sure. Yeah, the other head. The other, the other. A man, a man of few minds. I never were to guess that. I mean, maybe you're just now.

telling it this way because you have to officially. I don't know. I think it was Robin Williams who said. You're dancing on the street and the snow is coming down. It was amazing. That was amazing. But that's where it ended that night. I think Rob Williamson said man doesn't have enough blood flow for two heads at the same time. Yeah, that's exactly right. The nun over here is blushing. Well, I remember some stories that weren't so non-like. I'm trying to push the non-story.

They're bad nuns. They're bad nuns. Nuns who go wrong. Bad habit. Hey, we're talking about all those things that you're not supposed to talk about. We did a little bit of politics, not much. But you, I notice credit, not credit, but religion as part of... What enabled you to put it all together or move on or heal yourself? Yeah. Is that anything to talk about? I always had an abiding sense of faith. It was an interesting thing. It was sort of a wrestling match.

You know, that was like, oh, I still hear you over there. But I grew up in Christian science. As a little boy. As a little boy, yeah, Sunday school, and maintained it. And my grandmother or her aunt, my grandmother's aunt actually kind of knew Mary Baker Eddy, who was... you know, the progenitor of that discipline of examining, you know, the miracles of Jesus through this lens of science and faith at the same time.

which is pretty fascinating and very metaphysical and the kind of stuff that appeals to my head anyway. And so I was brought up in that. I hung on to it. I mean, I read it every day, almost even through the... The bad times. Sin, disease, and death are not real. All is infinite mind and it's infinite manifestations. Stuff like that just kept me alive. You know, it kept me connected. It was very empowering. Yeah, it really was. And so...

I maintain that. Now, my active faith, my relationship with Jesus, if you will, was not something I was even comfortable declaring. It wasn't something we did. That's not the way we talk, basically, the Christian scientists. And so it always seemed a little odd to me. And then when I was writing the book about Karen, I had this... Wild moment on a plane where Jesus is sitting down right next to me and talking to me. And it was undeniably true and real and reassuring.

and uplifting, and I got to surrender. I started, tears were just dripping down my face on a plane all by myself. Well, I mean, there's, you know, people aren't around, but. It was an extraordinary moment, and it just was that thing, that thing that happens. And suddenly it was revealed to me, and there I was. And I guess I was saved. But he'd been there all along. Right.

And that was the real trick. Because I'd been fighting the fight of like, well, I've got this. I've got this. And then, of course, he was basically saying, no, I got it. Because I can. And that was great. It was fantastic. And at the same time, I did that movie, Jesus Revolution, which got a lot of response and a lot of good... But I was having a kind of a meditative evening in my home one night in my living room, about 3 a.m., and I thought to myself, I want to do something that's important.

Something important. I don't know what it is, but I just sort of just gave up and said, you know, guide me. This is before I had sort of the moment with Jesus on the plane. The next morning, the Jesus Revolution script came to the door. I sat down, read it, and said, yeah, I'm doing it. And it was a big thing for me. Wow. I have to see that. It's good. It's a good movie. Yeah. And it's actually, what's funny is it's a time in our lives that we would...

You'd probably remember because it was 72. And I remember in Florida, there were these girls. I just came off the beach. I'm just standing there when I'm just watching the waves because I was surfing then. these two magnificent women come out of the off the off the beach and say Hi, have you met Jesus? Well, I'd like to. I'm ready. Where are we going? Which one of you is she? Who's close here?

What was funny was, because I had that sort of ongoing relationship with Christian science at the time, and I was always still reading it, I said to them, well, honestly, I think I have. And they said, well, we're going to go to a... service right now. We're going to, you know, just praise the Lord, blah, blah, blah. We're born again. And I thought, well, good for you. You know, that's great. But I said, honestly, I'm okay. I sure was tempted.

But that was what it was about, that whole movement. All those young people getting baptized and looking for meaning in a world where, you know, everything had sort of taken a spiral. into hallucinogenics and stuff like that. You know, that was pretty popular then. I don't think I use the same words, you know, but who does as you? But I have the same exact feeling. My moments that was really kind of quite lovely for me was being on a small aircraft. It was a twin prop.

cape air you know those little things and they were expanding into indiana and we had we were campaigning and we We got the VIP treatment where the pilot came running out and said, we're going to beat the storm. Come on, Ted. Come on, Mary. And so, you know, the VIP treatment always sucks. A little questionable. Don't do it. Don't be making mistakes.

And we got on the plane, and it was a massive storm system that was sweeping the entire north-south of the United States. And we flew smack dab into it, and it was... You couldn't see out the airplane. It was pure white. It was thunderous from the rain. Mary cracked two ribs. From the turbulence and the bouncing, you had to hold on as if you were riding a, you know, I've never ridden one, but a bull, you know, it was that kind of bouncy. And usually when you're with your mate.

One of you will be in fear and maybe the other one isn't. So the one who isn't can go, it's okay. We're going to make it. We looked at each other and neither one of us could say. we're going to make it. And I remember, you know, it's not that I only pray in scary situations, but we tend to. Turbulence brings out. Jesus, very quickly. But I remember saying, you know,

putting myself in your hands, Lord. And, you know, or please watch after, and then our whatever, how I phrase it in my head. And then the next thought was... you've always been in his hands yeah her hands yeah whatever whatever you want to call it father mother and it relaxed me so much it's brilliant that it wasn't you know anyway Yeah. That thing again, there it is. Mortality is not a bad thing. Yeah.

Gravity is not a bad thing. If it weren't for gravity and mortality, we'd all be partying like crazy and we wouldn't have a spiritual thought in our head. But yeah, are we lucky? Are we lucky, really? Yeah. You know, it's interesting because I grew up quite, you know, religious and quite, you know, I was Christian.

You even trained. Sorry, Woody. I don't know if Kelsey knows this. You trained to be a priest. Is that not right? Or started it? I was thinking about becoming a minister. Yeah. Well, I can see that. Not a priest. We weren't Catholic. But, you know, I had given a couple of sermons up to when I was in my early 20s. But then just before I moved to New York, I suddenly found a new religion, hedonism. It was just right on time. Right. And no.

But anyway, I had a long time where I just wasn't sure. I don't know that I've ever talked with you guys about religion or Christianity, but I had a long time where I was just like... I don't know what the situation is. So, you know, I'm just going to... I'm just going to say I don't know. And I'm going to back off from my whole rather religious mentality. And then I read, ironically, I read Autobiography of a Yogi.

And I was like, okay, Paramahansa Yogananda is either a fraud and a total fake, or he's exactly what he appears to me, deeply spiritual man who is. telling the truth, which means there is a God. And so that's why I don't discount what you're saying. To say you were sitting on a plane and then Jesus was next to you, I really need you to kind of get, I mean, you felt like you physically saw him sitting in the seat next.

No, I guess I could have, but no, that wasn't what I needed at the time. It was clearly in my head, but it was unmistakably the voice of something other than in my head or me. And that was the energy. You're hearing the voice. Yeah. It was a conversation that was not being dictated by me. Right. It was just there. Wow.

Let me have it. It was remarkable. And then, of course, I look back to all the other things that have happened in my life and, you know, recognize it. I see the footsteps, you know, the fingerprints. And I go, oh. Okay. Because it is a miracle that all three of us are here. Yeah, absolutely. Truly. I mean, in a silly way, it's a miracle. No, no, no. I remember what... Especially Kels. Yeah, especially Kels. Thanks.

Bless you. We're still working on you. My mother came home to die. She had a choice of going to the hospital. She had really bad pneumonia. And she went, no, no. you know, wanted to come home. Good for her. And for two weeks, she had the most, she had the passing, the last weeks of her. You know, this is how she wanted to go. There were nuns that she knew from Colorado who came down and sang evening prayers every night with her and hung out with her.

People hoping Navajo would come say goodbye to her who knew her. It was like the perfect passing for her. And I remember I had the night shift. My sister did the days and she lived next door. And I would be there after she had really kind of... could no longer be really present but her body was still going and i remember looking at her and realizing that that moment of i don't know

All of my readings, my teachings, my philosophy, all the things that mentors have told me, all the things that I've used to heal over the years went flying out the window. And I went... I don't know. She may, or she may be about to, but I don't. I really, truly don't know. And it boiled down for me to kind of Ted. Try to do the best you can in every moment. Because you do know what the best choice is in every moment. Yeah, you do. You really do. And if you just...

you know, slow down and listen and try to do the best thing. That's as much as I know. Try to be a little better every day, you know. That's good. And that to me, I can wrap my brain about, around. But I know there's... There's something. Yeah. You try to explain how this planet and this universe could possibly be if you didn't put something higher than ourselves. It's really funny. I mean, of course, I mean...

Bless your mom. I was just thinking about your mom. That's a beautiful story, actually. Even the most advanced string theory guys that exist say, oh, no, there's something. Yeah, of course there is. Here's why I love that we're all kind of in the business of making people laugh or find something witty or ironic or something in life. That we all, hearing that story, and then I walk out the door and I think, I'm in control of my day and I actually know. You know? So, no. Right, right.

But I do think we're meant to enjoy the ride and we're supposed to have free will. We are definitely here for free will. And then so we get to make a choice. Yeah. Some of us are maybe not going to choose wisely. And some of us are lucky to be around long enough to get to make the right choice. That's my story. What a great life you have, Kelsey Grammer. Really. Thank you. You too. Yeah, us too.

What a wonderful thing to be, just to spend time with you, Kelsey. I don't get to see you enough, man. Every time I see you is great. It's always a real occasion when we get together. I always love it. I love seeing you. You always got something going on. Your brain's always thinking some way that most people don't. And it is a joy to know you. And it always has been. And the feeling is mutual. Yeah, you too, Kels. You too. I love you very much. I love you too. Yeah.

You know what? We should just do a little moment of... Thank you, Jimmy, Les, and Glenn. Yeah, absolutely. You know, we've all gone on and done many other amazing things in our life. Isn't only cheers, but without cheers, I would not be sitting here talking to you guys. I would not be. pretty much doing anything in my career. It was such an amazing platform for us to jump off of. That's what the everybody knows your name thing. They burned our careers. Yeah, they did. They did, yeah.

Kelsey Grammer, ladies and gentlemen. I hope you enjoyed it. I had the best hour and a half that I've had in weeks. It was just so sweet. Cheers gave us such a platform. to jump off into life. And it was fun to reminisce. Anyway, that's it for this week's show. Special thanks to our friends at Team Coco. If you enjoyed this episode, please send it to a friend.

Subscribe, rate, and if you're in a good mood, review. And you can always watch full episodes of this podcast on Team Coco's YouTube channel, if that's your thing. I'll be right back here next week, where everybody knows your name. You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes.

The show is produced by me, Nick Liao. Executive producers are Adam Sachs, Colin Anderson, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sarah Fedorovich is our supervising producer. Our senior producer is Matt Apodaca. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Italy. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Genn, Mary Steenburgen, and John Osborne. Special thanks to Willie Navarro. We'll have more for you next time where everybody knows your name.