When the Facts Change - podcast cover

When the Facts Change

The Spinoffthespinoff.co.nz
Hosted by journalist Bernard Hickey, When the Facts Change is your essential weekly guide to the intersection of economics, business and politics in Aotearoa New Zealand. Presented by The Spinoff together with Kiwibank. Visit kiwibank.co.nz to find out how Kiwibank are making Kiwi better off

Episodes

The global aftermath of Trump’s ‘Liberation Day’

Donald Trump’s bigger-and-stupider-than-expected tariffs have upended the global trading system and are threatening to create a new financial crisis. Bernard Hickey talks with Kiwibank chief economist Jarrod Kerr about the latest day “when the facts changed”, and what might happen next. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Apr 10, 202538 min

The green shoots and brown roots of our economy

If New Zealand’s economy was a grass paddock, it would be in pretty rough shape. We’re coming out of a pretty bad drought (economic recession) and there’s widespread political disagreement about how to get our worn-out field of brown grass back to the lush green pasture it once was. Bernard Hickey speaks to Kiwibank economist Sabrina Delgado about what looks promising (green shoots) and what looks worrying (brown roots) in the meadow of our national economy. Learn more about your ad choices. Vis...

Apr 03, 202527 min

Planting the trees we’ll never sit under

For 30 years, a little-known number in government circles has quietly stymied investment for future generations. Set by Treasury, the ‘discount rate’ was once set at 10%, and it meant future benefits and costs were heavily devalued, becoming worth almost nothing after six or seven years. In a nutshell, higher discount rates discourage long-term investment and incentivise short-term projects. Treasury has recently reduced the discount rate to 5%, but is that enough? Bernard Hickey talks with Arth...

Mar 27, 202530 min

New Zealand’s greatest invention: a monetary policy framework?

Bernard Hickey chews the monetary policy fat with returning guest Reserve Bank chief economist Paul Conway. Was inflation targeting (a policy framework first introduced in Aotearoa 35 years ago) actually our greatest invention? Was quantitative easing a success? Is inflation different now? And should Reserve Banks and Governments work more in tandem, rather than against each other? Listen in to find out. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mar 20, 202543 min

A handy Primer for the global AI economy

This week we dive deep into the worlds of AI, defence technology businesses and the great technological arms race between China and the US. Bernard is joined by Sean Gourley, a New Zealander who founded US-based tech success story Primer, an AI intelligence company helping governments understand the mathematical patterns underlying modern warfare. Gourley shares his insights about New Zealand’s position in this great contest, along with the opportunities for New Zealand to grow high-value busine...

Mar 13, 202539 min

Shock and Orr

Adrian Orr resigned as Reserve Bank Governor this week after 7 years in the job, but three years early, effective immediately and without explanation. Bernard Hickey talks in an emergency edition of When The Facts Change with NZ Initiative executive director Oliver Hartwich, an Orr critic, about his legacy and how his replacement should change the bank, and with Kiwibank chief economist Jarrod Kerr about Orr’s operation of monetary policy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adc...

Mar 06, 202537 min

Mortgage rates, braking and accelerating

Even as New Zealand’s economy was in the depths of a recession, the Reserve Bank kept a firm grip on monetary policy, only easing up in mid-2024. This week, Bernard Hickey sits down with Kiwibank chief economist Jarrod Kerr to discuss whether the Reserve Bank should be hitting the accelerator now, rather than simply lifting its foot off the brake. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feb 27, 202532 min

The startup savant behind Trade Me and Xero

Described by The Spinoff’s Duncan Greive as “the most important figure in New Zealand technology you’ve never hear of”, Rowan Simpson has had a guiding hand in Aotearoa’s most successful tech companies. His new book “How to be Wrong: a crash course in startup success” shares the close calls and near misses that happened on the way to success (read: the staggering purchase of Trade Me by Fairfax Media in 2006). He talks to Bernard Hickey about his journey through tech, the keys to startup success...

Feb 20, 202540 min

‘Show me the money’: What Kiwi are buying this summer

Retail spending figures from shops, cafes, restaurants, hotels and holiday hotspots over December and January are the ultimate barometer for spending appetites, income levels and general confidence in job security. Kiwibank senior economist Mary Jo Vergara joins Bernard Hickey to discuss a note she published this week, diving in to the latest spending data collected over the summer break. How relaxed were Kiwi with their holiday spending money? What are the experts predicting for 2025? Listen in...

Feb 13, 202528 min

Rising tides and sinking boats

Free trade agreements are the global political economy’s hottest topics at the moment, especially since a tariff-toting Donald Trump recently argued (to great political success) that the rising tide of global free trade wasn’t lifting all boats. While global economic growth has lifted many out of poverty, the benefits have been unevenly distributed, leading to increasing wealth inequality and stagnant wages for the middle-class in many parts of the world. Inequality and wealth researcher Max Ras...

Feb 10, 202523 min

How do we measure the value of social investment?

Our social welfare system is complicated, expensive - and incredibly necessary. How do we know when it’s working properly? And when it’s not? ImpactLab CEO Maria English joins Bernard to unpack the data and evidence-based metrics they use to assess the “social return on investment” of social services funding, and how the company uses their insights to help make Aotearoa a better place. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jan 30, 202536 min

Is 2025 the year to thrive?

Last June the economists at Kiwibank published an article titled “Survive ‘til 25”, outlining what they saw as a tough six months ahead for our economy. Well we’ve made it to 2025, but is the economic year ahead going to be about surviving or thriving? Kiwibank economist Sabrina Delgado joins Bernard Hickey to try and find out. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jan 23, 202523 min

What austerity actually means

In order to reduce debt, the coalition government wants to cut spending from 34% of GDP down to 30%. In practice, that means cutting spending on people with disabilities, even though those cuts often increase hospital and care costs in the long term. Bernard is joined this week by disability rights lawyer (and distant cousin) Huhana Hickey, for an in-depth look at what austerity actually means. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jan 16, 202525 min

A fast track to cronyism?

Political and economic debates in 2024 were dominated by the Government’s new fast-track legislation, a controversial bill that aims to speed up infrastructure and development, which passed just before Christmas. The debate, and the risks, were summed up in an impassioned plea in parliament by Labour MP Arena Williams, who said of the bill: “This is the closest New Zealand has ever come to cronyism through the legislative process.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jan 09, 202510 min

“Tariffs are beautiful. They’ll make us rich”

Donald Trump’s re-election was the defining moment (and the major shock) in the world of politics this year. His proposed tariff regime is set to upend global economics, which he has kicked off by threatening 25% tariffs on America’s two biggest trading partners: Canada and Mexico. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jan 02, 20258 min

It’s darkest before the dawn

Finally, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand started cutting interest rates this year, having moved before everyone else and stayed higher for longer than everyone else. The economy slumped significantly early in the year, remaining firmly in recession since. By August 14, Adrian Orr felt safe enough to cut 25 basis points. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dec 26, 20249 min

What’s on Aotearoa’s shopping list?

Kiwibank senior economist Mary Jo Vergara has dug through card-spending data to find out how retail spending has changed since Covid, and over the last year of high interest rates. Have we collectively tightened the purse strings in response to a cost-of-living crisis? Or are we taking advantage of online shopping payment options that have never been more convenient? Listen in to find out. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dec 19, 202427 min

Inside Wellington’s homeless crisis

Homelessness in Aotearoa has hit an all-time high, forcing organisations like Wellington City Mission to adopt innovative new strategies. Wellington City Missioner Murray Edridge joins Bernard Hickey to talk about the scale of the housing crisis in our capital city and how a couple of new approaches and buildings are making a difference for those worst affected. Read more about the Wellington City Mission’s efforts in Joel’s MacManus’ Cover Story: https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/11-11-2024/insi...

Dec 12, 202437 min

Home on the marae

Motueka might appear sleepy and remote to visitors, but like much of Aotearoa, it faces a severe shortage of rental housing—often far pricier than expected. Bernard Hickey sits down with Miriana Stephens to discuss how her iwi is tackling this crisis by building dozens of affordable homes, with the marae at the heart of community life. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dec 05, 202434 min

The OCR grinch has turned into Father Christmas

In 2022, Reserve Bank governor Adrian Orr told Christmas shoppers to “cool your jets”, as the bank scrambled to control inflation by hiking interest rates. This week - now inflation has been beaten back down - he delivered another whopper 50-basis point rate cut in the RBNZ’s latest monetary policy statement. Kiwibank chief economist Jarrod Kerr joins Bernard Hickey to discuss the governor’s gradual transformation from OCR grinch to Father Christmas, and how many more rate cuts we can expect to ...

Nov 28, 202425 min

How fair is our tax system?

Victoria University professor of taxation Lisa Marriott talks to Bernard Hickey about the fundamental flaws at the core of our tax system, how they have produced historic levels of wealth inequality in Aotearoa - and how we can fix them. Lisa is speaking at the Pakukore: Poverty, by Design conference at Victoria University, 21-23 November. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nov 21, 202427 min

Behind Porirua’s poverty

For decades, Pat Hanley has been a tireless advocate for the rights of beneficiaries, drawing attention to the persistent challenges they face. In this week’s episode of When the Facts Change, he sits down with Bernard Hickey to unpack the deep-rooted causes of poverty in Porirua. Hanley argues that both the underlying issues and society’s approach to addressing poverty demand a comprehensive overhaul, calling for transformative change to create a fairer, more supportive social landscape. Learn ...

Nov 14, 202433 min

The cost of prison

Our prisons are bursting at the seams. They cost at least $2 billion per year to run – and that’s before we consider the longer-term and wider-reaching costs to our health, education, housing, justice and welfare systems. University of Auckland indigenous studies professor Tracey McIntosh joins Bernard to interrogate the reasons why we, as a society, persist with ever-larger and ever-more-damaging institutions that are failing to reduce crime rates or recidivism (and, in fact, may actually be in...

Nov 07, 202434 min

How to give employees what they want, when they want it

Fintechs are changing the way we spend and save, but they are also set to change the way we could be paid for work, or more correctly, how workers are paid benefits on the fringes. Bernard Hickey talks to Steven Zinsli, the founder of Extraordinary (formerly HealthNow) about his new payments card system to help employers deliver extra benefits to employees through electronic cards, rather than having to claim expenses or just get plain old cash paid straight into a bank account. Learn more about...

Oct 31, 202438 min

An economic spring in our step

The animal spirits of the economy are stirring back to life after a whopper of an interest rate cut - with expectations of one more to come. Bernard Hickey talks with Kiwibank chief economist Jarrod Kerr about how businesses are feeling heading into the Christmas sales season, and what might upset the metaphorical applecart. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 24, 202429 min

The hidden battery in your home

What if your hot water cylinder could help solve New Zealand’s energy crisis? And how is an hour of free electricity helping with our notoriously problematic electricity market? Electric Kiwi co-founder and CEO Huia Burt sits down with Bernard Hickey to explore how they are helping New Zealanders tackle the cost-of-living crisis, all while reducing our national reliance on non-renewable energy sources. Tune in for a fascinating discussion about electricity, innovation, and the potential for real...

Oct 17, 202431 min

Is Nicola Willis cutting costs or cutting growth?

Finance minister Nicola Willis is on a mission to crunch the size of government debt from well over 33% of GDP to under 30% within a few years, as well as fire up growth in an economy experiencing its worst-ever recession per capita. Doing one would be hard, but both at the same time seems a mission impossible for a politician wanting to win a second term. Bernard asks her how the government will both keep its promises and engineer even bigger spending cuts in per capita terms than those deliver...

Oct 10, 202429 min

We’re all getting older and something has got to give

As our national population grows older (and the superannuation system becomes increasingly burdened by the growing ranks of retirees), how will the government balance the books? The ratio of tax-paying adults to superannuitants is steadily falling, and raising the age of eligibility for super won't cover the forecasted shortfall. So what kind of fiscal policy changes are needed before public debt starts getting scary? Dominick Stephens, chief economic adviser at the Treasury, joins Bernard Hicke...

Oct 03, 202432 min

Gazing into the infrastructure crystal ball

Aotearoa’s biggest problems are largely caused by a lack of infrastructure - housing, transport, water, hospital and education - in the areas that need it most. So how could (or should) we plan the systems that keep our country running? And who is responsible for divining the future to make decisions that can have an impact for decades to come? Bernard Hickey is joined by Peter Nunns, acting general manager of Te Waihanga NZ Infrastructure Commission, to discuss the murky business of planning in...

Sep 26, 202432 min

When the interest rates change

Kiwibank chief executive Steve Jurkovich joins Bernard to discuss the current economic landscape and what’s happening (and likely to happen) with interest rates. Steve also shares his thoughts on the future of Kiwibank, open banking and if he considers possible banking plays by likes of Apple and Google to be a legitimate threat. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 19, 202434 min