When the Kids Finally Speak: Conversations That Heal Us

Nobody wins in divorce, but the people that really know what it feels like when all hell breaks loose in a family in a family is none other than the kids. And so today, we have a very special guest, somebody near and dear to my heart, my daughter, my oldest, oldest daughter, miss Morgan King. Come on, Pooh. What's up, baby girl? I'm just so so excited.

Right. So honestly, growing up, it was hard because I didn't have the two parent household that, you know, my peers had or, you know, you see the two parent household on TV cartoons, and I started to compare my lifestyle to that. And I still, at the time, thought thought of you as super dead. You were very, very emotionally present throughout my entire life while it was hard for you to be physically present.

Mhmm.

And it affected me in multiple different ways. We had multiple turning points in our relationships where, you know, maybe things went downhill for a sec, maybe things were uphill, but our I feel like our dynamic is honestly, this is our dynamic. The hard conversations, the intimate emotional conversations that we have between each other. I know I say multiple times that I call you when I need to talk intellectually. Mhmm.

Yeah.

And I and I know that, you know, it probably was hard for you at some times too, and I do wanna ask you that question. Was did you ever feel like you were getting down on yourself because of the situation?

All the time. Right? And there were some specific moments where I felt like I would prob I probably let my guard down and let you down. But, starting out, right, you know, being from Houston, I we lived in Houston, and we weren't together then and I was in the same city. Now during that time going through divorce, divorce breaks you, you know, financially and everything else.

It's hard to talk It's hard to talk about because I remember, I think it was like four or five. And you did a very good, like very good job of shielding me from everything that you were going to. And you would take me to the children's museum.

Yeah. And was

my it was the highlight of my weekend. The highlight of my weekend was just you were in the city, you would pick me up, and we would just go to Children's Museum. Do the same exhibit probably Yeah. The little, like, business thing Mhmm. Every single weekend.

Mhmm.

Because it it was it was really hard for me to feel like, you know, when that my lifestyle started becoming different after, like, especially, like, you moved. Yeah. And I was I was so young at that time. I remember the first time I came to see you in Dallas, was maybe six or Yeah. And it was like me halfway and that's

Yeah. So I had to move. I didn't I didn't have at that time, you know, I had left corporate America, had run my own business for several years and in the midst of the divorce had to sell property and my properties and my partnership, I had to sell that off and so I ended up taking smaller jobs. I wasn't used to making the amount of money that, I I grown accustomed to. And then an opportunity came for me to go back to corporate to the company that I left, IBM and so but I had to move to Dallas and that was a tough thing, right?

Right.

Right? So, you know, to answer your question, yeah. There were some there were some times I was hard on myself. Yeah. I I was tough tough on myself. But you mentioned the two different households and and everything. Because as as time went on, we, you know, I got back up. I wasn't homeless no more. Right? You know what I'm saying? I moved on up like the Jeffersons, you know. So I remember buying that first house. Right? And it was it was a nice it was a nice house. It was a big house.

Yeah.

Right? So but you talked about two households. How did like that really shape you? Right? Because I know there were some things that we tried to do, right, to help you feel comfortable. Because at that point you were my only child. Right. Right? So how did how did that shape you?

It was honestly still pretty difficult because, you know, I'm in Houston, and that's my everyday lifestyle. I go to school out there, play sports out there, and it was just me and my mom. And so because of that, it I spent you know, it was hard. And then being coming to see you and then having the household be what it was like, you know, the big house, the more the more things, or the, you know, the church. And it was it will it really was conflicting when it came to finding out who I was in growing up because I didn't know who to seek advice from or who to learn from.

know, somebody Stop that, Morgan. You came to my house.

Okay. No. Yeah. Yeah. But you had a movie room and Yeah. All this type of stuff. So it was a it was a totally different thing, but it was it was hard because I would leave.

Right. Right.

And so I would be there for a week Mhmm. Maybe a a break, Christmas, and then I would go home. And it wasn't like that.

Yeah.

Like, we we we we did not have all that.

And so So did you ever resent me for that?

I did not resent you until I felt like I was until I felt like you had your own other family Yeah. Truly. And then I felt like I was forced out Mhmm. To a sense because I'm your first child, but I was I was older. And then the family things that, you know, maybe did start to go on, I still felt like I was forced, pushed out to a sense that I did not I wasn't really a part of that family.

Yeah.

And that would that was a reason. And it it does now we have the dynamic where, you know, we we talk about things. But when I was younger, we were not comfortable with talking about things as much.

Yeah. You mentioned about the some of the things in divorce that parents say. And even if it's just side conversations that they're having with friends or whatever, kids hear. Right?

Right.

I I remember you coming up to Dallas and we were playing board games or whatever. And I don't know if you was like five, six, I don't know. But you was like, yeah, we playing Monopoly or whatever. And he was like, yeah, you know, my daddy's a cheater. Mommy says you're a cheater. And I'm like, dang, we playing Monopoly, man. What the hell? Right. And I was like, that was the reality. I was like, dang, you know, Man, okay.

Right.

You know, because you used it out of context. Right? You used the right words.

Thought you were cheating at the board game.

You thought I was cheating at the board game because I was a cheater. Right? Because I a cheater. Right? So I'm like, damn, okay. Wrong context, right word. You know, don't how you feel about But there came a time though, and I don't know if this was for you, but it was definitely a pivotal moment for me. There came a time where you asked me about what happened Right. With me and your mom. And I can't remember how old you were.

I was 12. I I vividly remember that day. I remember I came to visit and I don't remember exactly what we were doing at that time. But I walked up to you and I said, dad, why did your mom get divorced? And you looked at me, and honestly, your face dropped. Like, you were not expecting to have that conversation at that very moment and but you were very open to having the conversation. So you took me into my room, you sat me down, and it was the first time I saw you get emotional.

Mhmm.

And you told me, well, I was unfaithful to your mother, and I gained so much respect to you for for you because I was 12 years old asking you hard difficult adult questions, and you gave me the honest answer, and it didn't matter if it changed how I perceived you, but you wanted to be honest with me. So that was, I would say, the first turning point in our relationship where I felt like, man, like, everything about my dad, like, is a man. Like, this is this is a man. He can be honest with me at such a young age about something as that hurt me and every other party involved. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Yeah. But from the honesty that you gave me, it was just like, yeah. This this is this is what I need. This is this is exactly what I want to hear from him. And this is this is I like the person that my dad is.

See, I didn't know what to what how else to answer that because prior to you, you know, I was one way. Right. I was one man. And then, after you, you know, had come in and I was already going through transition, so I was now navigating being the man who God had called me to be. Right? And so while at 12, no, I didn't expect to have that conversation. Right? But 12 years old nowadays, I mean

Right. You could have a lot of conversations.

Yeah. Just different type of type of type of experience. And so I was just like, man, this is what it is, you know, and then we'll deal with whatever comes out of that. And I always said it was tough because I always wanted to I was always playing the long game with you.

Right.

Right? Short term, I mean, you go through your teen years, I'm like, man, I just wanna push you down a flight of stairs. You know what I'm saying?

And they were rough.

Yeah, you know, but I'm sitting here and I'm just like I'm playing the long game and with the long game I had to think like this, no matter what's said, right, and although that may have been true at that particular time, no matter what's said, she'll always have to reconcile her experience with me with what she's heard about me. And if they don't line up, she'll always gravitate to her experience

with me. Right.

So I had to always make sure that your experience with me was Wahana.

Right.

You know, I I I gotta be straight up with you. I gotta, you know, be be loving. I gotta be empathetic, be caring, and and, you know, and that's me. Right? But I have to make sure that I don't, you know, try to I don't lie. Right? Let me just let me just be open and honest and then we'll deal with it at that point. So it was a pivotal moment for me too because I wasn't expecting that.

Right.

Right? So it sounded like it was a pivotal moment for you too.

Very much so because, you know, that transition, there were so many things that 12 years old, I became a teenager right after that and I went through a lot as a teenager. Mhmm. And we had the relationship at that point where honesty and the way that you approached me was like, okay. We can talk about things. And I think that's, like, a huge part of, like, our dynamic now.

So what are some other turning points?

I would say most recently

Mhmm.

Like in another positive nine you know, positive upward shift was when you moved me into college. We were I was hugging you and mom, and we were about to leave and you said you put your hand on my shoulder, and you said, I'm transitioning from provider and parent to adviser. You're gonna make mistakes. You're in college, but, you know, it's like a mentor type thing. Like, I I now had the confidence to share with you things that I would go through in young adulthood without fear of being punished.

Mhmm.

And there's things that I call you about, like, I I'm in college. There are things that I see and I call you about, and I'm like, I don't know what to do. I call you for advice. And we were able to have those conversations now

because because there was one time I was like, Martin, you've been drinking what are you drinking? I was like, what are you the hell are you I was like, oh, who's? Who's?

Hey. But I mean, we got like, there's like, we got through it, and those are, like, conversations that we were able to have. And I'm grateful for the us to have those conversations because there's people in college who drink and can't talk to their parents

Yeah.

About it and go off the rails or have other issues. And so I was open and honest with you being like, hey, like you know? And even though it's not like, okay.

So you remember the time I'm gonna go back a little bit because me, you jumped up into the college one, but now it brings back some stories on some of those other moments, man, that, you know you know, there's not a book on this. You know, I'll I'm figuring it out. But one, when I realized that you were in a different you were transitioning to a different level was when, you know, I think you I know what grade you're in, but I found out you was cussing at school. Right? You remember how I did that?

Because I like the song Bad and Boujee.

Yeah. I was like, Morgan, what's your favorite song? You was like, oh, Bad and Boujee. I was like, so you be cussing at school, And he's like, nah nah nah. I was like, sing the clean version. Didn't even know the clean version.

You didn't know the clean version.

You know, I know you'd be cussing at school. And so, I had to give you grace and give you space. Right? Because, I think even at that time I was teaching no, wasn't I wasn't teaching, but I had been I had taught, you know, on the collegiate level and everything, so I knew students and what they were doing. But I remembered my the first time I cussed, I was in middle school.

You know? Like, what

the heck? You know? But but now we can have those talks. Right. I'm not giving you license to start cussing folks out.

No. Yeah. Understood. But

we can have those talks. And so I had to give you grace because I remembered at what at that age what it was like for me. And sometimes we as adults, we tend to forget that. Right? We tend to get so high on our our high horse. Right? And we tend to forget what it was like to be a kid, right? So that was another moment for me I had to just realize, okay cool. And then another thing is, you know, you were very active in basketball.

Very.

Right? And you were really good.

I would like to think so. Yeah. I would like to think so. But, like, I also like, I hand that I hand that to you, like, lot of the things I grew up playing basketball. I grew up wanting to be working computer science because of you. I was five years old. Like, I wanna go to Texas A and M, major computer science. I'm a be at Aggie, Gig them. Now, that is not where I go. I'm looking at the camera.

No. Know, one of the things I've had to learn is not just to be vulnerable with being honest with you.

Right.

But being sometimes this this is really maybe hard for parents. Sometimes we gotta let our kids prop us up. And I've had, I've been in situations to where I've had to let you prop me up and that showed me how mature you had been and it gave me peace about the journey. For example, actually just the other day you had to prop me up because my knee went out. Right, Physically.

Right.

And you had to help me out the car and walk. And we didn't know the severity of the illness at the time. Right. We just knew that I was basically hobbled, couldn't walk, my body had gotten frail and everything and it just really taught me the moment that Kris you've been sowing seeds and being consistent, let her because she's stronger than you think.

Right.

And so I appreciate that. Like, man, that was a tough, tough moment. You know, to be broken Yeah. To the point where you gotta depend on your child. Yeah. You know? And I just it's just something I've learned that, you know, we're not all together.

Right.

We're all here for one another. So thank you.

Absolutely. And it was it was hard for me because you're right. At the time, I did not know you were sick. And I remember I was just so happy. Because I remember we I would come to Dallas, and we would go to the same restaurant, PDQ, get chicken strips.

I appreciate that. You know, but you also went through your battles. Very much so. I don't know what grade this was. So most of your high school career was locked up in COVID. Right? But I don't know what year this was, Morgan. I I could've snatched

Oh, I was I was 15 years old. Was a sophomore in

high school. That you got arrested, Esther. And I'm like, what the hell is going on? And, you got I was like, no, she in detention. Right? They're like, no, she got arrested. Was like, no, you mean, like, she in ISS. Right? They're like, no. Slap the cuffs on and arrested like, you didn't just tell people what what you did.

So I was 15 years old and this was this was during COVID, we had the option to go online or be in person. And I remember at this specific time, I had switched from online to in person school because of the basketball season. And I still think of this as a cry for help. It was my first first time trying any type of drug, and it was weed. And I took an edible, and I thought I made it

out campus.

On campus. I thought I made it out, you know, completely. The day had passed. I slept, woke up next day with class, and then somebody snitched, and me and a few of my teammates were in trouble. Now granted, I was the only one who got arrested because I had the crumb and the bag still left on me.

No. They snitched.

No. They did snitch. They they definitely snitched, But I was I was definitely the only one that actually got arrested. But it that was a hard time too because I felt like mentally, I was battling things Mhmm. Like depression, anxiety.

Yeah.

But at the time, I knew that I was undiagnosed and this situation ultimately did lead me to being diagnosed with major depressive disorder. Mhmm. And it was a cry for help. And the way that we handled that, you know, was honestly that that was that was pretty difficult. I I mentally, I was going through a lot. So obviously, being stuck in a house anyways.

Mhmm.

And then the one time that I do go out to school, I get in trouble. Yeah. And I I understood that it was a consequence of my actions, but because of the mental struggles that I was going through, it would just felt like it was an action that needed to happen for me to get the help that I needed.

And and that's the thing I appreciate because, you know, we did get you the help that you needed. I wasn't disappointed that you got arrested. I was more disappointed that you were still calling these fools your friends.

Right.

I was like, man, you got a long way to go. You call them your friends. You And I was like, you realize your friends are the ones that told. Right. You know, and so, that because, you know, you live and learn, you live and you learn and thank God we got past that and you're everything is good. But Right. I was like, we really have to teach you about relationships and friendships.

And that is a huge thing that even to this day as mature and intellectual as maturely and intellectually I can handle things, my relationships and the friendships that I have have tended tend to be toxic.

Mhmm.

And I do think that has a lot to do with, you know, the difference and the split between not having two people in a household. I was never taught I've never seen a healthy relationship in my life romantic, platonic, and that translated to me when I started having these friendships and relationships that I would gravitate towards people who would hurt me

Yeah.

And who were toxic. And it's it's now it's refreshing to, you know, now having my own things and my own independence to make my own decisions and look back at that and be like, okay. I don't wanna get back into that position, so let me make better choices about, you know, the people I hang with or the people I choose to spend my time with. And it was they they weren't my friends. Yeah.

Mhmm.

And go to school. And I'm now 19 years old, and I'm about to graduate college in a year.

Yeah. Exactly. No. I commend you on how you bounce back. And, you know, it it was also inspiring to me to see you do that. I was proud. Right? And I was proud to see him. I'm still proud, to see you bounce back from that. I do wanna shift a couple of gears though.

You were so happy.

Know I was like yeah. And I even wrote a chapter about that it's called Daddy I Like White Boys in my last book, right? And just talking about that dynamic being black and where we had come from and everything. But there was something else, you know, leading on. Right? And later on, you came out and you said, daddy, I got something to tell you. Right. What did you tell me?

I said, dad, I like girls. And that's crazy because that whole time I was saying, daddy, I like white boys. I knew. I knew. And it was something that I always knew, but I was always scared.

No. Not curious like I wanted to

experience. No. No. No. Not curious like you wanted to experience, but curious about me, like Yeah. And how it affected me and how I felt. And you truly were very intentional about the questions you asked, about how supportive you made me feel because I I never felt like I couldn't talk to you Mhmm. About those types of struggles that I was having because now I primarily just date girls.

Mhmm.

And I've been in multiple relationships, and we've had multiple conversations where I've had to be like, hey. Like, I need advice. Mhmm. I need and you've, you know, you've met some of my past girlfriends, and you have been a really pivotal part in giving me an outlet to talk about and, like, share, you know, the feelings or emotions that I may be going through because it is hard. And I don't think people understand that.

Mhmm.

Because you sit here and honestly you see a society that doesn't accept you. Mhmm. And let's say your family doesn't accept you. Being not accepted by society and in your household is a conflicting place to be in.

You know, it was really tough for me, right? Because growing up, right? That's the insult. Right. Right? It's like, Nikki, you gay.

Right. Exactly. Exactly.

And then we were Riley boys, you know.

No. We used to like Us too. My generation too.

That's just the insult. Right? So, you know, growing up, you knew who the people were gay and it was almost you were they were ostracized. Now, later on, you find out more people, you know Right. Gay, but so it was a struggle. On top of that, it was a struggle because I was a pastor.

Right.

You know? And it's like you're staring us in the face, but it's like, well, what does that say about your household? What does it say about you? What does it And that's where I was like, I had to get out of my head.

Right.

And I had to do it really quickly because those thoughts was like boom boom boom boom. What you gonna do? What you gonna say? What you, you know, who and what they gonna say about what kind of pastor are you? You're the man of God. Your child out here, you know. And I had to get out of my head and I said, you know what? If I don't respond lovingly and correctly, I could lose her forever. Right. Like in that moment, that split decision can change the dynamic of this.

Right.

Right? And, you know, it's like I heard God just say, Lover. Right? Lover. And what does that look like? I don't know. But it definitely means getting out my own way, getting out my own head and and just like, okay, well, Morgan, what does that what does that mean?

Right.

You know, what does that look like? You know? And, you know, then stop asking myself questions of stuff like, well, what happens if, you know, you wanna do that ain't my we're deal with this right now.

Right.

And in every moment I'm like, love her because you're so valuable. You're still so valuable to me that I couldn't lose you in that moment. And still to this day. Now, part of it I have to think about, like, okay, if she was talking about a boy, would I feel differently? Sometimes no. Right. Because I wanna slap that dude upside his head too. You know what I'm saying? Or I'll be like, Morgan, what you what you thinking? You know?

Absolutely. Has definitely brought us a lot closer together because you have given me an outlet to say, hey. This is something that I'm struggling with, and, hey. This is something I need help with. And I think it was hard because you were a pastor. So, honestly, you hear all the time from the Christian faith, it's wrong.

Mhmm.

And so there was a time in my life where I was sitting there and I was like, it's I'm wrong. Mhmm. And I didn't know how to approach you because I thought you would think that I was wrong in a way that you reacted and you chose to love me gave me the strength that I was like, okay. This is this for me, this is who I am, and nobody can sit here and tell me otherwise. Mhmm.

Yeah. And you have to think what's the main thing, you know? Right. The main thing in this case was not who you're with. Right. Because I've seen toxic relationships

But it's not woman. Right.

And so let me work on that foundation. Right? Now, do is it my preference? No.

Right.

You know? And we understand that.

Right.

Right? But do I love you? Without a doubt. Right. Right? So let me focus on that main thing and let me demonstrate how to have healthy relationships. Let me demonstrate, Morgan, okay, let's set some boundaries. Right? So you don't allow people to, you know, run over you and those types of things. And, you know, just let God. Right? Just have his because have his have his just I just give them to you. Right? Right. I've learned to cover you.

you. Right.

Right? I don't wanna control those experiences because if you have your own experiences and now you're saying, dad, okay, I wanna I wanna go go to church. I can't wait to get back and go to church and wanna experience this. And and you're calling me now talking about the experiences in God that you're having. Right. Right? You know, I just set the foundation.

Right.

Okay. Let's talk about healthy relationships in general. Right. Right? If you were dating a man and he was abusing you, would I be happier? Hell no. Right. You know? I might catch a case. Right. You know? I probably won't catch a case against a woman because I'm like, okay. I can't go get up. You know what I'm saying? But but I teach you how to fight.

And it helped me with my relationship with God truly because I felt so honestly, like, I just felt like I could not be gay and love God the way that I love God because that's that's you know, it's people preach hate sometimes. And when that's all you're hearing, it's just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And since I've, you know, grown up and gone to college, I have found a different you know, whether it's a man or a woman, I want a relationship centered in Christ, period. I have tried to find a church family at, like, within my college. I've joined religious organizations on campus.

Mhmm.

And people can use their religion as an excuse. And there's times in my life where that has beat me down, but there's also times where God has been like, get up. Yeah. Yeah. And it's important that, you know, that is a consistent path that I try to walk on, and it is and I'm glad that I have the relationship with you to where, like, you're like, okay.

Mhmm.

And it is it is I think it it is my calling card to do things like this with you, to speak or have these conversations about God. I love these type of conversations and to share my story or my testimony because those times in my life were really hard. Mhmm. And I was hearing so much from everybody, people I cared about. I lost friends, lost family, and those relationships broke, and those excuses were because this can't God God can't accept this.

Yeah. I I appreciate that, Morgan. And I think that's I think that's a place where we can just rest and and plant the flag right there. I do wanna ask you, is there anything I can do better?

Honestly, dad, no. When I say super dad, I mean it. And that's full transparency. Because even now, I have my own car, pay my own stuff, but I call you, like, dad, I need help. You help me as best as you can.

Wow. Well, I I thank you, Morgan. I just asked you if you'd be willing to share your story. We've been crying this whole episode. I don't even know what to say.

I love you too.

I love you. Before we get out of here, tell them how they can how they can find you. Now don't y'all be DM ing my daughter.

Please do not. Please do not.

But tell them how they can find me.

But you can find me on Instagram, morgan king underscore thirteen. Also, as well as my LinkedIn, if anybody would like to bless me, that would be greatly appreciated. Morgan King on LinkedIn. I am in search for business management internships, as well as a job after graduation, if that is, you know, something that y'all would like to provide.

Tell them no, that's something they gonna provide.

Yes, please. Actually, I'm deeply in search. So I appreciate it.

Good deal. Thank you so much, Pooh.

Thanks for having me.

I really appreciate it. Everybody, this has just been a wonderful episode with me and my daughter, Morgan King. I thank you for joining us. I thank you for all of your support. Go out there and follow us on all the socials.