Who baby, my baby, I need you, Oh how I need you? What do you you expect? As a production of I Heart Radio, I'm your host Heidi Murkoff, and I'm a mom on a mission, a mission to help you know what to expect every step of the way. Maybe you always pictured yourself cradling your baby at your breast, and maybe that's precisely how it played out for months,
even years of blissful breastfeeding. Or maybe you had every intention of going the breastfeeding distance six months, a year more, but only made it through the first week or two. Maybe your little one wouldn't latch, or your supply it just wasn't up to babies demand. Maybe your nipples cracked until they bled, or maybe your heart just wasn't in it. Your body, your baby, your feeding choice. It sounds reasonable,
but is it always that simple. Actually it's not. For far too many moms I've talked to, turning to a bottle for whatever reason, even doctor's orders turns on the judgment and turns up the stress, the pressure, the guilt. Suddenly everyone's the parent police and you're the quote unquote bad mom. Mm hmm, not on my watch. There is
no shame in the feeding game in my book. So today we are here to help you move past that guilt and move on to the joy, because ultimately, the very best way to feed your baby is with love. Speaking of moms who struggled with breastfeeding, I'm here with Emma. Hey, Emma, Hi, mom, Hey, you were the little girl who breastfed all of your dolls and your teddy bears when I was breastfeeding Wyatt, your baby, even when I was like twelve years old.
That we're gonna be honest, Okay, but we're talking about when you were a little girl, and and you know, when when it came time to have your own baby, Lenox, you didn't register for anything bottle feeding related. You didn't register even for a pump or bottle um. Why would I know exactly? So that's how sure you were you were going to breastfeed Lenox, but it ended up being a completely different story. So why don't you you share your story? Okay? So I had Lennox and he was
born on time. He was tiny, he was like five pounds fifteen ounces, but he was an IVF baby. So I feel like, you know, that's I think it's more normal for them to be on the smaller side. Yes, um. But because of that, he was losing weight in the hospital, and you know, the lactation consultants in the hospital. Eventually we're like, okay, well, okay, he needs to eat something. Um, your milk isn't coming, so let's introduce him to some formula.
And I was like, oh no, no, my baby is not having a drop of formula hit his lips honey from a bottle. Oh no. Yeah. So I became this huge deal and eventually they convinced me. They're like, your baby needs to get nourished, otherwise there's going to be some major issues. So I gave it. Eventually, I Um. I remember I was like, mom, is it okay? Is it okay? Can he have formulas? Okay? You like, yes,
let them have formula. And I feel like in that moment, like it started to unravel because in my mind, I never was going to let my baby have formula, but I had no choice. So that was when the threads started to come undone. I remember pumping constantly. I would stay up all night pumping. Um, you were closet, you were a closet, I know. I would pump in the closet literally, Um, when no one was looking, because everyone said, you need stopped pumping. My nipple was hanging by a
thread at one point and I almost lost my nipple. Um. I would be pumping blood into the pump and pus um. I had an herbalist come in and put needles behind my ears. I drank a non alcoholic beer. I had a diet that consisted solely of root vegetables. I took tons of herbs. I drank teas, which I hate. Look coffee girl all the way. I've never had tea in my life, but to make milk, I was gonna have tea. It was a really hard time. I did cupping. My
back was covered in bruises. But you know what. We live in l A, so I felt kind of cool. I was like a celebrity. I'm copping. I would walk outside with my cupping all over my back and a tank topping. Yeah. I cupped so honestly. At that point, it got to where I was bonding with my pump. My pump was my baby. My pump was constantly on my lap, and my baby wasn't because I because I didn't make milk. I had the Madela and adustrial strength pump, so that that thing, if you know, it's it's a
big one, it's not tiny. So I had someone else holding the baby or if the baby sleeping, and I was pumping. And also, didn't you try this the supplemental
nursing system with it? Yeah? I did the S and S and that just made me and the baby cry because you know, it works great for some people, but for me, you know, I had these massive boobs and these like giant nipples and then this giant boob was coming towards my like five pound baby's face with like attached to it, and He's like no, and he was hungry. He was hungry. He was hungry. But yeah, yeah, so he was like, no, I would rather starve than drink out of that damn S and S. I don't know.
It didn't work for me, um, but it does work for a lot of people. It does. It's actually really great for people who have adopted and want to breastfeed. So my breastfeeding adventure wasn't that's great? What did it take ultimately for you to it? Um? When I almost lost my nipple for the second time, Also when I also was losing my connection to my child, which I with IVF. You try for that baby, you inject yourself
like thirty times a day. I wanted that baby, and then afterwards I had my baby finally, and yet I was so consumed with producing milk. Then I kind of you were disconnected. You have just disconnected, and that was the last thing I wanted. So eventually I was like, you know what, I have to accept this. You can't. You have to cold turkey this because you can't slow it down. You have to go cold turkey. Otherwise it's just never going to change. And we kind of did
an intervention, right the doctors. I had doctor you know what, the biggest one though, with the lactation consultant, she's like their friend stopped. She's like the biggest breastfeeding advocate, and like, you need to stop. This is not healthy. And she is the one who will tell everybody to breast feed from the top of a mountain. And she said you need to stop. Stop stop. You say you felt like
a failure. One of the most moving things that I heard from you is when you went to your first mommy and me class, which ended up being your last mommy and me class, and and you left sobbing. I was mad at you because you suggested that I went and I was like, how could you put me through this? I didn't how Okay? So it was basically it was your faults every well, you're my mom, um, it was
your fault. Um. So it was when Lennox hold was he was like a month or two old, or maybe three months, and I went to a mommy and me. I thought, you know, I need to make some girlfriends, you know, mom friends. My intentions were good. Your intentions were good. However, all babies get hungry at that age, like all the time. So everyone whips out there boobs and I'm whipping out a bottle with formula, and I felt like the elephant in the room. I was the
one who was having a bottle while everyone's boob was out. Yeah. It was really depressing. It was really sad, and I was like choking back tears the whole entire time. As soon as like they said okay, class dismissed, I bolted out of there and I got to my car and I started crying and calling you, like how could you pupp me through this? Yeah? But do you think that they were actually judging or do you feel like maybe you were judging yourself. I mean, it's it's it's sometimes
it's hard to gauge. I mean, come on, must be honest. There ain't no one more judging than the mom. That's true. So why do you think, why do you think there's so much judgment and shame around breastfeeding? Well, I think a lot of it is that we're all not one secure and how in what we're doing is moms, And I think that like kind of like makes us feel judgment towards other moms who maybe are doing what we'd like to be doing or what we think we should be doing, but we don't have it in us to do.
And I mean that's part of it. But I also just think that you know, we're just a judge, you bunch, Yes we are. It's funny because dads don't judge each other. Only moms judge each other. They're like high five beer high five. And guess what, they don't judge themselves. They're totally cool with the way they are, and we judge ourselves and that brings out the judgment against other moms, and it's it's really unfortunate. So we're gonna break that
cycle right here, right now. Yeah, we are break those chains. So let's take a quick break, and when we come back, I'm answering the biggest questions you have about breastfeeding shame. Okay, mom, let's break down the biggest questions our listeners have about breastfeeding shame. What's your best advice for a new mom who's this thing now, who's struggling with breastfeeding and wondering that she should just give up and throw in the towel. So here's the first thing that this mam has got
to know. Breastfeeding is a natural process. Moms and babies have been doing it ever since the were moms and babies. But it's a natural process that doesn't always come naturally, at least not without lots and lots of support. And there are so many obstacles that moms can stumble over along the way. You've got your clog ducks and your yeast infections and your cracked nipples, and you know, maybe your baby won't latch, But they don't always have to
stop breastfeeding in its tracks. Sometimes they do, but sometimes they don't, not if you have the right lectation support. So here's my advice. If you are not ready to throw in the nursing towel. Don't, at least not without getting the support to see if it helps from a lactation consultant. So we'll let che Lee wick a breastfeeding support group, your pediatrician, even a pediatric dentist, if you have a hunch that maybe your baby has got a lip tie or a tongue tie that's keeping them from
latching on properly. And if that support helps, great, and if it doesn't, still great because you tried. And the other thing. I think it's really important to keep in mind breastfeeding is not a binary choice. So lots and lots of moms have the idea that either you breastfeed exclusively or you formula feed exclusively. Either it's all breasts
or it's all bottle and that's just not true. You can actually combine breastfeeding and bottle feeding, breast milk and formula in any combination that ends up working for you. You could begin every feeding with breasts and then top off with a bottle. You can switch off every other feeding, or you can, and moms are incredulous to hear this, you can mix even a tiny drop a breast milk
into a bottle of formula. You know, if that's all the breast milk that you could pump, and the enzymes in the breast milk help your baby digests the formula so they actually do mix, you can do the combo. But just as importantly, and I can't emphasize this enough, Emma, you know this. You've got to know your limits and your baby's limits, and you've got to know when it's
time to call it quits on breastfeeding. Whenever that time comes, whatever the reason, you know, maybe baby is not getting fed, or maybe you're just fed up with the struggle, just do it. Just do it and don't look back, because then you can look forward. You can look forward to feedings that you actually look forward to instead of dreading you know, that are fun and and filled with joy and free of pain and stress. So my advice then is just fill up that bottle of formula and get
busy without a single ounce of regret. Okay, how can a new mom cope with comments from nurses or lactation consultants in the hospital that can feel like pressure is an effective way to deflect those stressful interactions? Well, look, you know you know this, Emma. I am a huge supporter of breastfeeding support, and I will defend a mom's right to get that support as much as she needs,
for as long as she needs it. But when breastfeating support leads to pressure, even policing, whether that's by electation, staff for its nurses, even doctors, or it could be from friends and family, that's not okay. Support has to be gentle, it has to be respectful, It has to be mindful of a mom's mindset and her personal physical and emotional space, and most important, it has to factor in her feelings. And most breastfeeding support that's offered in
hospitals is absolutely all of those things. I've seen it in action hundreds of times, but once in a while, once in a while, and even with the best of intentions,
because they meanwhile, it can get over zealous. Sometimes it gets pushy, and sometimes it gets judge and you're feeling really at your most vulnerable and also your most naked right because you are literally half naked, and someone is taking your breast and physically maneuvering and molding your breast into like all kinds of pretzel positions that that may
in that moment feel uncomfortable to you. Or awkward by all means, take advantage of flactation support in the hospital if you'd like to give breastfeeding your best shot, and then plan on continuing that support as needed once you get out of the hospital, because, let's face the most breastfeeding problems don't come up in the hospital. They come up once you get home. In your breasts are you know, the breast of eight Manhattan. They're giant, they're and gorge,
they're painful, and baby can't get a grip. So that's when you're gonna need to support the most. But if a nurse or a lactation consultant, or anyone in the hospital or outside the hospital, if you'd rather they step away, at least for the moment, tell them, just tell them it's fine to say nicely, or even not so nicely, or even better, let someone else. Can Daddy do that? Paddy can't do that. I'm not about that, Like no, and you're feeling so homnitable. It's so much better if
someone else sends that message. But if you have made that decision, this wasn't you, emma. But if you've made that decision already in the hospital, I'm not going to breastfeed for whatever reason. Maybe you can't breastfeed. Don't feel compelled to explain that decision. Just say I plan to feed my baby with love. I mean, who's going to argue with that? I could not agree more. Preach that I'm preaching. I'm pretty preach it, Mama, preach it. Okay.
How can a mom handle the pressure from friends, family, mothers, mother in laws to breastfeed? Well, I hope I didn't apply that pressure to you, emma, but you know it. I think it starts in pregnancy, right, Like everybody's giving you advice that you didn't ask for, and everybody's rubbing
your belly without permission. They say it takes a village to raise a child, and it does, but for some reason, people take that expression just way too literally, and they see pregnant bellies and babies as some kind of community property,
like they're up for grabs. Everybody gets a piece, right, And what happens is, instead of finding the village of support, which every mom needs every mom benefits from, it becomes kind of like a pregnancy and parenting police state where everybody and your mother and your mother in law and those strangers in the park on the park bench are telling you what to do and what not to do. And here's the thing got to remember. Parenting isn't something
that's supposed to be done by committee. Everybody doesn't get a vote. Only parents get a vote, you know, once they've consulted with their pediatrician. Of course, I'm not talking about your parents. I'm not talking about your mother and your mother in law. I'm talking about you and your partner. Because your mom, your parents, they found their way with their their own babies, and now it's your your time
to find your way with yours. But the fact is nobody knows what's best for your baby better than you do, right. You know your body best, your baby best, your situation best. And the bottom line is your breast your baby your business. Why is anyone's business are you breastfeeding? That's like asking how old you are? Like, okay, mind your business. People have done that to me too, Mind your business? Oh yeah, yeah, I okay. How can a mother navigate the guilt of
breastfeeding her first child but not her second. We've all got to remember our mommy mantra. What's our mommy mantra? Let's repeat after me. Every mom is different Every baby is different, every breastfeeding journey is different. And some journeys never get off the ground, and that's okay. And some journeys go on forever and ever into the into the preschool years, and that's okay too. And for the same mom,
two journeys can be completely different and that's okay. So first time could be the charm, second could be the struggle, or maybe it's the other way around. It does not matter. As long as all of your babies are fed and loved and nurtured and nourished, healthy and safe, it's a good day. And when we come back, it's helped me, Heidi, And now it's time for help me, Heidi. We're all answer you're pressing pregnancy and parenting questions, no holds barred,
no field allowed, t m I, no such thing. We're all moms here or dad's chances are if you have the question, other parents due to you are not alone. Motherhood is the ultimate sisterhood, and we're here to help a sister out. So Emma, who needs help today? Okay. So this comes from a listener who says, so, I've decided to bottle feed after three weeks of trying my hardest to breastfeed my baby. I feel your girl, but I feel so guilty and so worried that he and
I won't have the bond that comes from breastfeeding. Help Um, Mama, you know I've always got your back, Emma's got your back, but you've also got to have your own back, and right this minute, you've got to give yourself a big, giant, loving, accepting pat on your own back like you mean it. First, you've got to congratulate yourself on those three weeks of breastfeeding you put in. I cannot say this enough. Any drop of breast melting makes its way into your baby
or colossrum is something to celebrate. Next, you've got to congratulate yourself on making a decision that was yours alone to make in the first place, and that, for you, is the decision that's right for you and your baby, because remember this, if it's not right for you, it is not going to be right for your baby. And you've heard the expression fed is best and it's absolutely true.
Baby's got to eat and eat enough to grow and thrive. Yeah, formula isn't an exact replica a breast milk, because in you've still got the trademark on that secret sauce, and it comes at a price. But still, the right kind of formula makes a great substitute for breast milk or or supplement to it. But here's how I like to put it. Fed with love is best. The most important ingredient in any feeding is the love. That's what puts the nurture in nourishment. Think about it. Breastfeeding builds that
mom baby connection right into the feeding. You can't, as I often point out, prop your breasts and leave the room. Your baby is naturally positioned at precisely the right distance, the one she can see your face best at to soak up your smiles. Gaze back into your adoring eyes. Here your whispers of love. So bottle feed the same way, open your shirt, cuddle up close, position your baby as
you would at your breast. Use feedings as bonding time, which by the way, will be a lot easier to do if you're both relaxed and not stressed out about how much milk you're making or how much your nipples hurt. Take your time to go slow with the flow and paste the feeding pause often as your baby would naturally during breastfeeding, and Bottle feeding doesn't have to be fast food. Keep your baby in a more upright position and tilt the bottle only slightly so the milk fills the nipple
only gradually. The perks to paste bottle feeding less gas, less fit up, more time for building that bond. When when when? So, here's the feeding your baby with love, no matter how you're filling her tummy. Who babylf my baby, belof I need you, Oh how I need you. Thanks for listening. Remember I'm always here for you. What to Expect is always here for you. We're all in this together. For more on what you heard on today's episode, visit
what to Expect dot com slash podcasts. You can also check out What to Expect when You're Expecting, What to Expect the First Year, and the What to Expect app And we want to hear from you. Connect with us on our community message board or on our social media. You can find me at Heidi Murkoff and Emma at Emma bing w t E and of course at What to Expect. Baby Love is performed by Riley Peterer. What
to Expect is a production of I Heart Radio. From more shows from I Heart Radio, check out the i Heart radio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. In my arms, what don't you stay Neja Needa, baby, Baby,