Aloha mai kakou Welcome to a new episode of What School You Went? where we start every conversation with that question because well, that's usually what we do here in Hawaii Nei. I'm Ron Mizutani, and today we're talking about lava sledding on the slopes of Hualalai volcano. Welcome my longtime friend, waterman, Tom Pohaku Stone to this conversation. Pohaku is a cultural practitioner, a lifelong surfer, and just one of the craziest guys I know. Welcome to the program, brother.
Hey, mahalo. Long time no see.
Long time no see, about 45 pounds ago for me. You looking top shape, though.
We working at it, you know, yeah, my 15 year old son, he keeps me moving all the time. "Dad, let's go surf, let's do that..." whatever.
So I gotta ask, and be truthful, what school you went?
Well, for sure, School of Hard Knocks, really. But when I decided to finally get a GED, the only place I could get it from was McKinley High School at the time. And so that's what I did in 1993. So I could go to college and get, you know, my education from there.
Good for you. So at the age of 28... (laughs) You know, what, I know a lot of folks who went to the school of hard knocks, just because they have to. You took me out to the slopes of Hualalai and the Big Island and gave me a quick education on building one of these incredible... 'cause there's not much history of that part. Right? You did a lot of deep research before you created your first sled, if you will. And then you took me out there
and we actually did it. One of the scariest things I've ever done in my life to this day. Maybe you can describe, and try to be descriptive because podcast world, what that sled looks like, how fast are we going? And what terrain can you take this sled on?
Well, I mean, people have asked about the holua, you know, it's a pretty complex apparatus or, you know, It's death defying. Literally, okay, so for those at home are traditional implement, and is made all from wood lashed together, there's no glues and all lashing, you rode it, I mean, made, you know, the lashings from coconut fibers. And it's made from kauila. So when you wrote, which is, you know, unusual today, because you can't find that wood very much.
And then but, but the areas that we slide on, traditionally was almost like a ski jump, right, minus minus the jump at the end. But it was basically made from the surrounding lava, you know, material, or rock around there, piled up into a nice platform finished with ash. And then with a sprinkle of, you know, grass, it could be sprinkled, yes, I mean, really, because it runs better on a little bit of material, on top of it, and the sled runs better on the rock.
It's faster. And what we don't have is those old sliding areas. But what we do have is the big, open, pasture lands of the Big Island, and that's where, you know, we use that and you know, if you groom it, and you go and look for big stones in the fields, and make sure you're not going to hit one, then you're good to go. And our average speed, right, when we were riding, you know, our speed averaged between 20 and 40 miles
an hour. But you know, we know for a fact that we've gone approximately 80 miles an hour already. So yeah, it's... trying to visualize what this looks like... I mean, it's not very... it's very narrow. You're literally you're not on a real... it's not like a bobsled. Six inches max, that's the width.
You know, I used to work out back in the day, so my chest could barely fit. (laughs) But I mean, clinging on to life. And I mean, there's no brakes, you can use your legs...
You're using toes or whatever...
You're all in once you launch, and you're so close to the ground, maybe you can describe what that looks like at 30, 40, 80 miles an hour.
Well, I mean, you figure you're on something that's six inches wide, two runners, an open platform on the top for you to hold on to, and you're approximately four inches off the ground. So everything looks like just water going by, you just don't see anything except the bottom and you're totally focused on the bottom of the hill. Because if you don't make the bottom, as you know, it's a slide on your face or whatever it might be. But you
know, it's a commitment. Once you commit to it, there's no going back.
Unless you learn, and learning how to fall is important, as some of you better-skilled stand on it.
Yes, I mean, we do. But it just depends on terrain, because everybody wants to stand on it no matter where we are, but the injuries that come from that, if you make a mistake, is not good. It's pretty much you're going to the hospital or something like that.
On that particular day. Lance Hoʻokano, one of the greatest longboarders I know, professional surfer for many, many years, he decided he was feeling pretty good about that day. And after a few going prone, he said, I'm going to stand, and he got launched, and split his chin open.
Yep. And we super glued it later.
You know, why? Why do this, and what did... because this is like, like King Kamehameha used to do this stuff.
Yes, he was trained in the art of sliding.
What was the fascination? Was it sport?
Well, I mean, it was a connection to my ʻohana. And, and I just chose to, to focus on that. But as I got to know it better, I realized there was a commitment there to bring back the knowledge that had been so lost. And being that it was so significant to our cultural way of life, I focused on my commitment to our way of life, and I realized who I was and why I was here, and my name, and everything, you know, prior to my mother passing away, and it was...
It's your calling, Pohaku.
It definitely is my calling. And it's, you know, I made a commitment to our native community, that I would never let it go and pass it on. And so that's why my youngest son is hanging out with me.
What a gift, and it is important to perpetuate and that part of our culture that oftentimes gets lost, not in just orally, but also in written, so much is lost and I'm glad... I'm not glad, I'm grateful rather, that you had your calling. And you responded.
Holua, unbeknownst to a lot of people, is really a Pele practice. And Pele is the goddess of the volcano. And that's how we believe, and so more than just her, it's a practice that was focused on the mana and ability of the women, and it's the women that were actually doing it more than men, based on records that I have found, looking at architectural sites that remain and remnants of them, and they all come with
female names. That makes it even more interesting, to me, and hopefully to the generations to come.
But you know, when you've surfed professionally, and you were a goofy foot back in the day, right? You still are goofy. Once a goofy, always a
I still am. goofy, but that's another story. You know, people may not remember all the details... you had a historic, I mean, when I first met you, Pohaku, you crossed the channel in all kinds of different vessels, you windsurfed... you did all kinds of crazy things. But in your mind, this was all part of your journey. It led you to this moment. There was nothing going on, except that I had to complete all these questions in my own mind. Right? I had to
answer those questions. You know, like paddling across the Kaiwi channel on on my wood board. That was really crazy.
Well, paddling to Kauaʻi is pretty crazy, too.
Nah, that was the easy one.
I mean, this guy has paddled every channel you can imagine. And Lord knows the Kaiwi is one of the most unpredictable channels from Molokai to Oahu.
There's more current going on in there than people know. It's crazy.
I have great memories of that channel. It's scary. It's a part of who we are today. You know, I want to go back to lava sledding because again, I want folks at home to understand how exhilarating this is, but how culturally important it is. And it's a part of your life and people now, I mean, you're teaching, besides your son Kawika, you're teaching
others who want to learn. And there are people who want to learn, not just for the thrill of it, because there's immense thrill, but they want to learn.
Yeah, I mean, a lot of people want to learn, but it's carrying it on. Learning is one thing. Maintaining that finger workout, and your body workout, building them, is a whole different thing. And what I find is a lot of individuals that we have taught prior, especially under uncle Eddie Kanahele and his leadership in the mid 90s, is that people just don't want to stick to the traditions. And yes, there's easier ways of making it, you know, we can go to machinery and
just do it all. But in the end, it's the knowledge of putting it together properly. If you don't put it together properly, you're gonna kill yourself, or you're gonna injure yourself or something like that.
So in other words, Pohaku, I trusted you. I trusted you that day. That that was constructed with a lot of... just, you in it, you know, and I felt that, and I felt that trust of commitment. Once you said "go," you remember I was frightened. I didn't want to go. I bailed couple times, I think after like the first 10 feet.
It's okay. I mean, it happens, but you know, that's the most trustworthy papa holua or, or sled, that I have, because it'll be 30 years old in three years.
Mahalo for allowing me to ride it.
I'm glad you went.
We talk about, you know, all the slogans, "Eddie would go" and blah, blah, blah... Eddie of course, was iconic...
You part of the team, right? Men who ride mountains.
That's what Bruddah Iz sang about right? The men who ride mountains. And that one I rode that day, and I'll never forget, one of the best days of my life. And I'm so grateful that you convinced me to go. I would have regretted that for the rest of my life. Had I not finally just said "oh, the heck with it."
Yeah. I mean, to be honest, people who get the opportunity to slide, because it took a little while for me to convince Kaweeks, my son, to actually go down this hill, this area, we constructed at Kualoa, because there was no slide there, so we just made it. And it's not a small slide. It's pretty damn steep. And he finally went, and yeah, pushed it probably about 40 plus.
Unreal. Okay, one more question, and we will wrap this up. But, so what if somebody says "I like try?" How do they... I mean not so much just fly to Hualalai or Kualoa Ranch and find a hill. It's not like going down with the cardboard boxes that we did as children. Do they call you?
People reach out to me on Facebook, Instagram, the social media stuff. And sometimes I get e-mails, because it's not like I'm not, you know, I mean, it's not out there. People can contact me anytime. But I usually look at the requests that they have. And if I can make it, I can make it. If not, sorry. Because I've had people, before COVID, I had families coming to visit Hawaii that wanted to do all this stuff. And I told them I couldn't, I'm gonna be in Belgium. (laughs)
So I thank you for allowing me to ride your sled. But also, thank you for allowing me to do it in blue jeans, because I know you do in your malo.
We all have our ways.
You gotta deal with the road rash and I had a few scrapes and bruises that day, but everything else was intact. And I appreciate that opportunity. I really appreciate you coming down here and talking story about this.
Thanks for the interest again.
This is important. I really do believe that. I want to thank you also for listening to your calling. And delivering. That's kuleana. That's responsibility.
As long as I can keep going and hopefully, you know, my children will stand up and take over.
Your legacy is sitting right there.
He better be. (laughs)
Or he gonna get hard knocks? Alright, Pohaku. Good to see you. Mahalo nui for joining us. We ask you to tune in next week for another episode of What School You Went? Until next time, a hui hou.
What School You Went? is a PBS Hawaiʻi production. Music by Taimane Gardner. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, and tell your friends. You can find us on pbshawaii.org and everywhere you get your podcasts.