Grizzlies, Paramedics, and the Power of Storytelling with Kevin Grange

[00:00:00] Emy Digrappa: Hello and welcome to Winds of Change. I am your host, Emy Digrappa. What's your why is brought to you by Wyoming Humanities. In this show, we are discovering the author's journey, their story, their unique craft as an author and their why. And today my special guest is Kevin Grange. Kevin is an author, firefighter. [00:00:25] Paramedic and speaker. He is an award-winning freelance writer focusing on the medical field, adventure and travel. His latest book is titled Grizzly Confidential, and it is a journey into the secret life of North America's most fearsome Predator. Welcome, Kevin. [00:00:45] Kevin Grange: Thank you, Emy. I'm thrilled to be here and look forward to an exciting discussion. [00:00:50] Emy Digrappa: me too. and I am, I'm really interested in, in where you started in your journey. So where did you grow up? [00:00:56] Kevin Grange: Sure. I, I was born in Chicago and then when I was in third grade, we moved to New Hampshire and my parents were able to buy a, a nice house on 46 acres. And so grew up in New Hampshire and I think having all that land, you know, my childhood was just spent hiking and fishing in my backyard and watching wildlife. [00:01:19] And I think that experience really informs a lot of who I am and what I write about. [00:01:25] Emy Digrappa: Okay. And then from there, how did you journey to Wyoming? [00:01:31] Kevin Grange: Sure. I, I finished college in Seattle, at Seattle University and then, became interested in emergency medicine and got my EMT and then Then I got my paramedic credential through UCLA and following that, I was hired by the National Park Service. And so I spent a few summers working as a paramedic at the Old Faithful District of Yellowstone, a few summers in Grand Teton, and just fell in love with this area. [00:01:57] And so I heard Jackson Hole fire, EMS had an opening and I eagerly applied and I've been here, uh, ever since. [00:02:05] Emy Digrappa: Oh my gosh. Wow. So when, what year was that? How long have you been here? [00:02:09] Kevin Grange: I've been here about 10 years, so I started working in Yellowstone in 2014 and Okay. You know? Yeah. So I love this area due to obviously the natural beauty, but also I. [00:02:23] The people that call Wyoming and Jackson home, you know, they're just amazing people who love the outdoors, love conservation, and there's also a really strong humanity and arts scene here as far as writers and dancers and photographers. So it's a great, vibrant community. In which to live. [00:02:45] Emy Digrappa: Oh my gosh. You just did a whole Teton County commercial. [00:02:48] Jackson Hole. Good job. it is spectacular to live around the Tetons and the wildlife. And the opportunity to see wildlife is, really unprecedented. Um, in the lower 48 I, I would say outside of Alaska, we probably have, the greatest opportunities to see lots of wildlife. [00:03:09] Kevin Grange: I agree. [00:03:10] Sometimes I joke that I'm living in like a wildlife park because really every day, you know, I'll see elk or I'll see deer, or I'll see moose, you know, and really every day you'll see something and it's just a reminder that we like share the landscape with wildlife. [00:03:27] Emy Digrappa: So tell me how you made your, Debut in writing. [00:03:32] What, what was the inspiration to start writing and because you became an EMT and then a paramedic, how did that happen? What, what was your inspiration? I. [00:03:42] Kevin Grange: Well, I've heard people say that all writers were once or are avid readers, and so I think my journey into writing began with me just loving reading books. [00:03:53] And the book that really did it for me growing up in New Hampshire and kind of being an outdoorsman was, uh, the book where the Red Fern Grows. Yeah, about a boy and his dogs and hunting and I, I remember just finishing that book in tears when the dogs pass away and they were tears of sadness, but also like tears of joy that a book could move me to that extent. [00:04:17] And just the power of a great story and literature and, you know, protagonist that overcomes obstacles. So. I think I loved books and then at some point I thought of wanting to contribute as a writer. And so I've always enjoyed writing stories and keeping a journal and you know, for me what excites me is having a great story and then just trying to capture it in words, which is the challenging part as a writer. [00:04:46] But. Also the really fun part. And so wanting to share stories. And for me, writing is like, uh, an act of celebration. So in all my books, I'm celebrating something, whether it's a specific animal like grizzly bears and their importance to the ecosystem. Or maybe my first book was about a trek I did in the Himalayan Kingdom of Bhutan. [00:05:10] So I just wanna celebrate these experiences and then share them with readers. [00:05:14] Emy Digrappa: Well, it is magical that words are so powerful and how they come to life and how you can create a picture of your experience in someone's mind. and it, and it's just interesting how, the power of words is just dynamic and you, and you're, and you have that. [00:05:37] Desire to capture that and share it with people. [00:05:41] Kevin Grange: Definitely. And I think, you know, for all writers, and for me, it's really about revision and rough drafts and to capture that moment is sort of, you know, I think it was the sculptor Rodin who talks about finding the, the statue in the stone. And so the rough drafts is just kind of chipping away and. [00:06:05] Stone to find that statue and just putting in the work to craft those sentences and to tell your story. And so I love that challenge and sometimes it's frustrating, but it's just a process that I really enjoy. [00:06:17] Emy Digrappa: How did you, um, find an editor? So obviously you have an editor that you work closely with that helps you, you know, refine, um, as you go through make creating a book. [00:06:29] What it, what is that relationship? [00:06:31] Kevin Grange: Yeah, well, I published four books now and each book is different. And so my first book is called Beneath Blossom Rain, and that's about a 24 day trek I did in the country of Bhutan. And so I kind of describe that as, kind of like Bill Bryson's, a Walk in the Woods, but set in the Himalayas. [00:06:50] And so with that. I was sending out a lot of query letters, trying to get an agent, trying to, you know, get a publishing deal. And I started at the top, which I think people naturally do. And then, in short, I wasn't getting accepted by agents or editors, but then I found this wonderful university press, uh, university of Nebraska Press, and they love the, the idea. [00:07:14] And so I worked with them directly without an agent One thing I, I tell folks is like, bigger isn't always better for publishers. Ultimately, what you want with an agent or a publisher, an editor is someone who loves your work. And so many times these small presses will get behind a book and push the book more so than a bigger publishing house where you're just one of hundreds of authors. [00:07:37] You can kind of get lost in the fray. so that, that was my first book. And then my second book idea is called Lights and Sirens, and that was about going through paramedic school in Los Angeles. And with that I did find an agent who was able to connect me with a different publisher. And so I've had a lot of different experiences from. [00:08:00] The university press to my second book was, through Random House, a huge press. Then my third book was like an independent press Chicago review, and then my fourth book is kind of in the middle, so lots of different, uh, publishers. [00:08:15] Emy Digrappa: Oh, interesting. Okay. I, I kind of thought maybe you found one and you stick with them, but yeah, you didn't do that. [00:08:22] what was it like to be a paramedic? In Los Angeles was that, did you have to grow a thick skin? You did. Um. [00:08:31] Kevin Grange: I think one thing I look for in stories is setting, you know, if I was to wanna write a, a book about being a paramedic, and I don't know, small town Nebraska might not have the same appeal as far as like Los Angeles, where you have gang violence and drugs and a lot of certain things. [00:08:52] So I think with a story in writing, you know, I, I've heard it described you need. To make a story, you need two things and you kind of rub 'em together like sticks to create that fire. So I think a good setting, but then also a good story. And, um, you did have to grow with thick skin there and you know, it's challenging working as a paramedic and you just kind of have to adapt and overcome and do what you need to do to save someone's life. [00:09:19] Emy Digrappa: Oh my gosh. that's one of those jobs where I. Just like being a police officer or, or any of those jobs that where you're rushing to help people, whether you're a firefighter or you know, but when you're in the thick of it and you're trying to save somebody and help somebody and, and maybe you lose people. [00:09:41] Did you have a hard time like dealing with that psychologically? [00:09:45] Kevin Grange: Yeah, I think I've been a paramedic since 2011, and so there has been a learning curve, um, as far as how to deal with that operational stress and you learn more about yourself in the profession. So I think in the beginning I didn't, you know, you don't know when you're affected, but then you also don't necessarily know how to, Heal yourself to get back to that resilience. But over time, I've learned to identify when a call isn't, uh, affected me. And then I also have a series of tools that I can do following a tough call. You know, whether that's take a hike in the outdoors to connect to nature or go to like a yoga class and sweat it out. [00:10:27] So you kind of learn that skill of resilience over time. But yeah, initially, you know, you just see some very shocking things that. It can't help but affect you 'cause you're human, you know? And then the danger in a city is you're running so many calls that you don't have time to process 'em. They just kind of keep stacking up. [00:10:46] So that can be sort of like a danger area. [00:10:49] Emy Digrappa: Oh yes, I believe it. So here's this kid who grew up, um, in New Hampshire and ended up in LA as a paramedic. That's kind of a culture shock. I mean, I know you went to Seattle. Right to the, and then you went to UCLA and you know, but still those are very different places. [00:11:09] Kevin Grange: Yeah, I forget the writer, but that idea of like, we all contain multitudes and so many different facets of our personality, and so one facet of me is. You know, solitary that likes to work on these books for hours on end and coffee shops. But then another facet is I, I'm very social and I love to hang out with people and, you know, I love the outdoors and nature, but I also enjoy cities at times, so. [00:11:35] Mm-hmm. I think as a writer just kind of, accepting your whole personality and wrapping your arms around it, and then just using it to tell stories is the goal. [00:11:45] Emy Digrappa: That's interesting 'cause I've been thinking about that. especially when, you know, in my job and they're always doing these tests like the Briggs Meyers test, you know, and you're this or you're this, and I kind of don't like that. [00:11:59] 'cause I like what you just said, like sometimes. You're an introvert. Sometimes you're an extrovert, sometimes you know you wanna go to the party, but then maybe you wanna leave the party and just go home and hang out. You don't wanna, you know, have another conversation. So sometimes I think we put ourselves in boxes like that instead of, there is like a whole array of things that are part of our personality and our being. [00:12:27] Kevin Grange: Right. Yeah. And I think on the writing side, just to write those fully fleshed out characters. And for me, the writing, side of me is like the observer and you know, but the paramedic side, you know, you have to be very. Proactive and, you know, so I, I consciously make that switch when I go to work as a paramedic. [00:12:49] You know, it's not the artistic creative time, it's time to be getting things done fast and actively involved. But on other days when I have the day off, it's more my writing side and observing and I'm just, you know, it's good to be aware of both sides and to, you know, cultivate each one when you need it. [00:13:09] Emy Digrappa: I like that. I like you. You live in two very diverse worlds actually, from your go be on, be in it, be, be on top of it when you're a paramedic and your more contemplative world where you're sitting and thinking, observing, and writing, and. And, you know, I, I think that is beautiful and I think they probably help each other in a way, because when you're down, you just wanna be down. [00:13:38] You just wanna be calm, Yeah. And then [00:13:42] Kevin Grange: I've written, you know, a few books about being a paramedic, so I think the writing process is also kind of therapeutic. Uh, so it helped, it's helped me process those tough calls that you were mentioning. I guess one thing I'd say is when I was younger I was kind of doing like the starving artist thing, you know, working at a restaurant and trying to write. [00:14:04] At the time I was really interested in screenplays, but I think great advice is to find, find the job that supports your writing. Um, 'cause my creativity. It doesn't flourish when like there's financial uncertainty. So with the fire department, I'm able to work 48 hour shifts and then I have four days off. [00:14:26] You know, so nursing, healthcare, those type of jobs are actually great for writers. 'cause you have that downtime. You work, you know, two to three days a week and then you also get a ton of stories through your. Profession. So I think that's advice that you don't often hear in like writing conferences, but, you know, find that vocation, that job that supports your writing career. [00:14:51] You know, 'cause it'll, it'll help your creativity in having that. Oh, [00:14:56] Emy Digrappa: absolutely. I want you to talk about your latest book, grizzly Confidential, How did, how and why, why, why was this a fascination and how did you decide to research and follow the life of a grizzly bear? [00:15:14] Kevin Grange: Well, as I mentioned, my previous books were about being a paramedic, um, while the rescues was about working for the National Park Service and. [00:15:22] My previous books were mainly memoir, and so I really wanted to like take a break from myself and just interview a lot of people and set the focus on something else. And so what I have realized is the next book I wanna write often shows itself in the books that I'm reading before. So prior to Griz writing, Grizzly Confidential, I was reading these books about. [00:15:48] An author who takes a detailed look at a certain species and kind of reveals their hidden or secret life. So some that come to mind where, uh, Ben Goldfarb's Eager, which is about beavers and their place in the ecosystem. Uh, other ones are like What a Fish Knows or the Soul of an Octopus. So I was reading these books and loving them and then wanted to, you know, try something new as a writer and test myself and. [00:16:14] I'd always grown up loving bears and uh, in specific grizzly bears. And so I also realized that with these apex predators, whether they're wolves or grizzly bears. They elicit like a fight or flight response in us. And so we tend to just generalize them. And we only know 'em as one thing. You know, the great white sharks are just these killers. [00:16:38] So I think as a writer there's a lot of area to explore and there are these, you know, hidden sides of these species. And so I, I realized with grizzly bears there, you know, the books on them is kind of just the, the bear attack narrative. And so I really wanted to tell a different story. Then the other things that were exciting was where this book would take me, you know, grand Teton, Yellowstone, Alaska Cap, my National Park, Kodiak Island, and the people that I would meet. [00:17:08] So it's a fascinating creature. And then the places I got to visit and the people I got to meet just made it a wonderful book to write. [00:17:17] Emy Digrappa: So in your research, Because you, you are talking about the hidden life of a grizzly. In your research, how did you, did you track a grizz, a grizzly? Did you, I mean, how do you get to know that hidden life outside of like talking to other people? [00:17:34] did you come face to face with a grizzly? Did you have an opportunity to really watch them in the wild? [00:17:41] Kevin Grange: Yeah, [00:17:42] Emy Digrappa: I did. [00:17:43] Kevin Grange: I sort of started my interviews with various bear biologists by asking, you know, what do you wish people knew about grizzly bears and. You know from that I got a lot of great ideas and each person I would interview would recommend I speak with someone else. [00:18:01] And so I just sort of followed the story. And you know, one chapter, I'm at Katmi national park at Brooks Falls, where the bears are catching the salmon, you know, standing on the waterfall there and that chapter's all about You know, the social hierarchy bears and their charismatic personalities. [00:18:21] And then, you know, that biologist recommended I speak with someone at Washington State University that has a bear center and they're doing a lot of research on brown bear physiology, that these bears gain all this weight but they don't get heart disease or diabetes. So that took me down, you know, an, an route into their hibernation physiology, which is really fascinating and. [00:18:44] Another place I visited was McNeil River State Game Sanctuary. Where the bears there have never been hunted. They've never been collared for research, they've never gotten human food. So you're like an, an anonymous part of the landscape. And so there as, as you asked, you know, bears would walk right past you, two to three feet, and you're just. [00:19:07] You and your group are just kind of hunkering down and you know, the bears will just walk right past you. They have no interest in you 'cause they've never gotten that human food or garbage. so yeah, I was face to face with a lot of bears and it really close range, but I've, over my research I learned to understand bears and signs of stress and so. [00:19:28] I was, my heart was still racing, but I was able to enjoy those moments with those bears and bears in Yellowstone. Um, now that I understand their behavior, and so if the bear's not stressed, I'm not stressed. I'm just gonna really enjoy that moment. Whereas before I. The sight of any bear, I would, you know, feel like I'm about to get attacked. [00:19:51] And, but I, I learned that, you know, that's not really in a bear's nature. And unfortunately, that's the, the only time grizzlies appear in the news is when they do something bad. But there's all these encounters that, you know, they don't attack and that there's lots of other sides of their personality. So that's kind of what I experienced and what I wanted to share in the book. [00:20:12] Emy Digrappa: I am so excited that you wrote that book because I'm one of those people because I live bear country. I don't, I don't wanna see a bear. I think it, it's, it's interesting how the tourists come and they follow the bears or looking for bears. They're stopping on the side of the road. And um, I remember I was on the phone on the side of the road and I think I was talking to. [00:20:38] Uh, one of my sisters actually. anyway, a par a car, um, pulled up next to me and they said, did you see the bear? Are you following the bear? did you see where it went? And I'm like, no, I'm on, I'm on the phone and I actually don't wanna see a bear. I live here. Right. I, I wanna, I, I wanna be at peace here. [00:21:02] I, I don't wanna see a bear. And this lady got so mad, she just pressed up her button on her car to roll up her window and they drove off. They're like, oh, yeah. I ruined their, their idea [00:21:16] Kevin Grange: Yeah. One thing I've learned is I feel like if we want bears to respect human space and stay out of. [00:21:22] Our neighborhoods that we should respect their space. And so there are places in the Tetons or Yellowstone where I now know that there's a lot of grizzlies, but I have that sense of a shared landscape. And you know, I'm gonna not go to those areas. I'm just gonna leave those areas for the bears and I'll hike somewhere else where you know, they could appear, but they're not really concentrated. [00:21:46] So I like that idea of. If we want them to respect our space, we need to respect their space. And so there's just places I won't go anymore. you know, and I just let the bears have their space and ideally just hopefully to reduce that conflict and kind of promote human bear coexistence. [00:22:06] Emy Digrappa: was the most interesting, thing you learned about Bears that surprised you? [00:22:12] Kevin Grange: I think their intelligence and their personalities. And so in the lower 48, they're often food stressed and so all of their existence is finding that next meal. Whereas in Alaska, it like, uh, Katmi National Park or McNeil. These bears, they're full. You know, there's like multiple salmon runs and it's just like huge buffet. [00:22:37] So once they eat their fill, these kind of charismatic, really goofy personalities start coming out. Whether it's like a bear just. Floating along doing like the backstroke or another bear kind of playing catch with a, you know, a salmon playing catch with himself, you know, tossing up the salmon. So you see those like goofy personalities. [00:22:58] And one of the biologists I spoke with talked about, he watched a bear climb up a slope and slide sled down basically like five times in a row. Just almost like having fun, you know? so you don't see that. And then learning how smart they are, uh, many folks believe they're like as smart as an ape. And at the Washington State Bear Center, you know, they did a, a scenario where there was a donut that was beyond the bear's reach. [00:23:27] So that was a problem. But then there was different tree stumps each with a different. you know, they were, one was tall, one was smaller, so there was a problem, but each stump rep represented a solution. And so in the video you can see the bear really just calculating which stump he needs to get there. [00:23:46] so you, you learn that hey, they're very complex and they can use a tool like a stump to get to what they want. Uh, and then the other story I tell is, and another thing they, there was an electrified deer carcass. The bear bit, the carcass once or twice and got a small shock. And then the third time he saw right where the plug, the deer was plugged in and he disconnected it right at the source. [00:24:12] So he was able to make that connection between this electrified carcass and not just pull the core, but go right to the source, uh, and pull it out. So their ability to draw those connections and reason and. Had these complex thoughts was really interesting to me. [00:24:29] Emy Digrappa: what is the name of that book? Where these, they're in, is it like the Edge? [00:24:35] No, it's a movie. Right. And the, the, the Grizzly is tracking them. [00:24:41] Kevin Grange: Yeah, that was the Edge. And, uh, Bart, Bart the Bear was the bear in that movie. And in one chapter I spent the day with Doug and Lynn Seuss, who trained Bears. So they, they raised Bart the Bear and he appeared in many movies and acted alongside Robert Redford and Morgan Freeman. [00:25:01] And so the day I spent with them was also a day where they were really talking about their personalities and. Their way of learning and their intelligence. So yeah, it was a great movie and it was great to meet them. And I did get to meet one of their Bears, honey bump, you know, she was probably, uh, you know, 800,000 pounds and just standing a few feet away from me. [00:25:26] So that was an amazing experience as well. [00:25:29] Emy Digrappa: Oh my gosh. Yeah. And they are intelligent. I, I know. Um. that's why it's really important about food storage and everything, especially where we live. because they do return to the food source. Once they find a food source, they will continue to return to it. [00:25:44] So you never wanna be a food source at all. but there was one gentleman I talked to because he had a mama bear and her cubs. Um. Open his front door and walk in. Wow. and she was so good at opening his door that he actually had to change his front door. He had to change how it was op, you know, just like, sure. [00:26:10] Geez. She had, she had it all figured out. [00:26:14] Kevin Grange: Yeah, and as you say, they're, they're kind of always measuring the caloric return from the energy expended. So if they can spend less cal, uh, less energy to just eat that unsecured human food or trash, they're gonna do that over their natural food sources and, you know, it's an easy meal and takes less effort. [00:26:33] And like you say, they're just gonna keep returning to that food source. [00:26:37] Emy Digrappa: And so here's my last question 'cause I think it's really controversial. are we humanizing bears in Grand Teton National Park where we're following them and they are, they're not wild anymore. They're almost so accustomed to people following them around that we've kind of humanized them. Where, what you were saying earlier made me think about that because you were in Alaska and they just walk right by you. [00:27:10] They don't have an interest. [00:27:11] and, and you, we have like, I don't know how many that take people out and specifically look for wildlife and especially bears. Yeah. I think. [00:27:23] Kevin Grange: A bear like 399 or some of those Bears of Brooks Falls, they can be like, they call 'em gateway bears. So it's our gateway into the bear community and maybe learning some of the challenges that they face. [00:27:36] And by naming and numbering bears, sometimes you can see behaviors that you wouldn't normally be able to associate them with, whether it's a sow adopting an orphan cub or an old male. Hanging out with a young male, whereas traditionally you'd think they'd predate upon them. So you can draw some of those conclusions. [00:27:57] So it's good on one hand, but I think when it gets taken to an extreme, you know, whether people start to see 'em as teddy bears, you know, 'cause they're always still wild animals, that can be a problem. And then I do think, like you mentioned, we do have a, a problem here in the Tetons where there, you know, hundreds of cars just following these bears and. [00:28:19] I think it stresses the bears to some degree and it's not healthy. And then, you know, there is a, a, a school of thought that if the bears become habituated to humans, then maybe they're gonna enter communities like yours with less fear going, looking for that trash. 'cause they don't fear humans anymore. [00:28:39] So. I think it's good to have sort of that dynamic relationship where the bears don't really wanna associate with people and don't wanna enter the communities. And then also people respect the bears, so they give 'em their space. Mm-hmm. So that's the goal. And I do think here in the Tetons, kind of swayed a little bit too far where you have these bear jams of a hundred people and then the bear can't cross the road. [00:29:02] Emy Digrappa: yeah, I, I've been in those, I've been in Buffalo jams and bear jams and moose jams and elk jams. I've been in all [00:29:11] Kevin Grange: the jams. Yeah. I was in an owl, a gray owl jam once. No way. A great gray. Yeah. Uh, and I guess another reason, uh, another way I've changed, kind of like you is. Now knowing the stress that hundreds of cars can put on bears, I, I drive through those situations. [00:29:28] I don't, whereas in the past I might stop, you know, just to not stress to bear, so. Right, right. But I do understand some people, you know, if you're a tourist from the Midwest, you know, you, you gotta stop. But hopefully don't approach the bear and give him at least a hundred yards room, you know. [00:29:48] Emy Digrappa: Well, um, Kevin, thank you so much. [00:29:50] I wanna know all the places that people can follow you and learn about you and, order your book [00:29:58] Kevin Grange: Sure. Yeah. Thanks so much and I've had a great time speaking with you. And so my books are available on Amazon and, uh. I do love to promote the independent bookstores, and so if they don't have one of my books, they'll definitely order, order them and you know, support your local independent bookstore. [00:30:16] And then I'm on Facebook, Kevin Grange, and then I'm probably most active on Instagram. And my handle there is Kevin dot m Grange. And then I have a website if anyone wants to email me to ask questions about. Fairs or visiting this area or you know, being a paramedic, I'm always happy to respond. [00:30:37] Emy Digrappa: Okay, great. [00:30:38] Well thank you so much. [00:30:39] Kevin Grange: Yeah, thank you. And uh, really appreciate it and I had a great time.