Machiavelli's Tips for Getting Ahead at Work

And yeah, I mean sure, we should work to make the world more just to bring these numbers closer to balance. But but while we are doing that work, women still have to go to work every day and you know, try to get a raise, try to get promoted, try to get the things that we all want. So while we wait for the just world to arrive, it would be nice to have a little help, you know, say, a guide book, a guide book for how women can

get ahead in the male dominated workplace. As it turns out, this book exists, and it was written more than five hundred years ago. I'm Jacob Goldstein, and this is What's Your Problem Live from Caveat on the Lower East side of Manhattan. My guest today is Stacy Vanix Smith. Thank you. I'm really excited to be here. Stacy is you are

the Global economics correspondent at NPR. You're my friend. We work together at Planet Money, and most importantly for tonight's show, you're the author of the book Machiavelli for Women, Defend your worth, grow your ambition, and win the workplace. Yes, Stacy, your problem, as I have defined it is this, how can women get ahead in a workplace that is stacked against them? Yes? I would say that's a That's a great framing for the problem. Is that? Is it good?

So what I want to do is I want to talk about your own career, as you do in the book, and how some of the larger problems facing women have come up in your own career, and how if only you had known your Machiavelli, he would have helped you solve those problems. But before we get to that, let's just like give me like a little hit of Machiavelli. Just give us the like kind of Machiavelli set up

for the bigger story. Right. Well, I had read Machiavelli in college as part of like a political science overview class, and I had really hated the book terribly because it's very cynical. You know, Machiavelli does not think people are great. Machiavelli is a little bit cynical about who people are and the things that motivate them. But you know, I then I went to work in the workplace and I

started thinking about Machiavelli more and more. And when I went back and revisited the book, the book was a little different than I had remembered it. And the premise of the book is he's like, there are two kinds of princes, the prince, two kinds of princes. Like they're the princes who inherit their kingdoms, and he's like, for them, it's pretty cushy, things are pretty easy. Everyone's like, oh yeah, that guy's in power. And then they're the conquering princes.

And he's like, for the conquering prince's difficulties abound. They're new to this territory, their powers being questioned constantly, why is them? Why not me? And I was like, that is actually a really good proxy for women and people of color and other marginalized workers in the workplace because we're in the workplace, right like, but the difficulties abound. We're getting questioned and pushed back and all that stuff. So I actually thought it was a really beautiful approach.

It didn't seem cynical to me, per se. I mean, he is a little cynical about people, truly. But what interested me was that his whole idea is that you take remove emotion from situations and approach everything logically. And I actually found that very very helpful when approaching issues of unfairness in the workplace and the workplace in general, which can be kind of an emotional place. But I found it very a very useful way to start and

approach issues at work. Yeah, I mean, it seems like one of the things in your book and in Matthiavelli is it's sort of the ugly truth, right like. And and this comes through in the in the book and the things you recommend, I mean as well, get to it's like, it's not dealing with the world as we want it to be, right and the solutions are not the kind of solutions we would want, right It's it's it's kind of grim but maybe effective. Yes, Well, I started looking at a lot of the research around this

because I'm a big homework person. I've always been good about doing homework. So when I would come up against issues in my job and my career, for instance, I really don't like negotiating, so I would read books about how to negotiate. I would do homework, and then I would try the things in the books and they would not work. I'm one. In one instance, it was like, you know, you need to talk yourself up. You need to go into your you know, your review and basically

kind of list off all of your accomplishments. And I did that and it didn't feel great, but I you know, I did the thing because it was what the book said to do, and it sure's reaction was wow, you certainly think a lot of yourself. And then I just spent the whole time trying not to cry and definitely didn't ask for a raise. I know it was it was.

It was rough, but but I realized that a lot of the advice that should work, and that should work, right, it actually does work for men if you look at there's a lot of research about this stuff, which was very very helpful to me. It does work for men, but if when women do it, it does tend to backfire because people have different expectations often when they're talking to different people, and so if you do one thing and I do another, the reaction is often going to

be quite different. And so I wanted to acknowledge the reality of that is that okay, No, it's not okay. Like if you go in and list off your accomplishments and they're like, you know what, Jacob, you're right, like you really have achieved a lot, and I go in and they're like, wow, you think a lot of yourself. That isn't okay, but it is the reality. So how should I deal with that? As you say, in workplace where I want to raise and you know, maybe I'm not in a position to sort of change the whole

structure of the workplace. So there's this metaphor really that you use in the book to describe this double bind basically that women are in right where if you do things that would seem compelling in a man, you're looked down on, and if you don't then you don't get

the raise either. So it's sort of a lose lose situation, right And you call it the hot box, yes, which apparently is a different meaning where you grew up than where I grew up, because where I grew up, you know what I'm gonna say, Where I grew up, hot boxing was smoking weed in the car with the windows up, which is not what you mean. Right in in Boise, Idaho, your hometown, the hot box is what it is. I was like a t ball term, like a baseball term.

So what happened much more wholesome place very well, I don't know about that, but but yeah, so I was on a t ball team. Is really terrible at t ball, but I would get a hit every once in a while. But it's a term for if you're caught between bases essentially, so if you're like running between second and third base and the second baseman gets the ball and like basically they can throw it back and forth between second and third base and you're not out. You're in between the bases,

but you're doomed. It's not good. There's no where you can go. There's no where you can go your track. Okay, so that's the I think. Did you say where you group they called it a pickle. Yeah, they called it a pickle. It's just it's lightful. It applies as well, right, so so how does this map to women in the workplace.

So what happens is when women get into leadership positions, they run into this issue where the things that people like to see in leaders are people that don't care that much to what other people think, people who are decisive, people who will speak up and take credit for their actions, people who are assertive and will push back. So those are the qualities people want to see in a leader.

Those are things that inspire people when it comes to leaders and those line up almost exactly with the qualities people also admire in men. The problem is when you are a woman and you do those things the qualities that people associate with a quote unquote good woman, and those are things like nurturing, humble, compassionate, sympathetic, supportive. Those are all really beautiful qualities also, but you can't really

use them in a leadership position all the time. So when women get into leadership positions, they're in a situation, the hot box, the pickle where if they sort of behave in traditionally more feminine ways, they are considered bad leaders. Right if you're compassionate and supportive and gentle and kind, that doesn't work as a leader. But then when women will try to display more masculine traits, they will be

very deeply disliked. And you see this a lot of times with female politicians, like very kind of pronounced cases. So you end up in a situation where if you kind of can't. So I feel like, for me, this was like the really big central idea that I took from the book because it just framed so much and

it seems so pernicious. But then what I found really interesting was these ways you enumerate of not solving the larger problem but dealing with it right, of how to live in this unjust world as a professional woman basically. And so I thought we could walk through some of the moments from your career that you talk about in the book, from before you had you know, the wisdom of Machiavelli at your fingertips, and sort of walk through what happened, and then you know what would Mackievelli do

basically or have done. So there's one you talk about where it's relatively early in your career and you find out a male colleague with a similar job is making a lot more money than you, Like, tell me tell me that one. Yes, So I found out. So this is when I had first become a reporter, and I was very very excited to become a reporter. I had been a producer and it can be kind of a hard jump to make. Really wanted to make it. And

I found out I was a reporter. And shortly after that, a male colleague was promoted and he, I think four or five years less experience than I did. And I found out through a series of events that he was making eighteen thousand more dollars a year than I was. And I just the thing that kept going through my head is that's a car. That's a car every year, it's a car a year, and he gets a car.

It's like terrible, It's like reverse. So I was really beside myself and I made an appointment with the boss. I forced myself. I mean I was, I was just I was so embarrassed because I had actually really tried to negotiate my salary when I had gotten this this title bump, and I had tried everything, all the things, and so I really thought that I had gotten this great salary, and then I found out that this kid, he wasn't really a kid, but this this person, why

less experience? And I was had just sort of in my in my mind Waltzton for like twenty grand more, and I was just devastated. So I walked into my to my boss's office and you know, fuming and lay this out and it's kind of like, you know, jac Hughes. I was like, I know, like I know what you're paying. And he was very, very shocked and rattled. And I remember this so clearly because he looked at me and was like, well, what do you want? And I had no idea, no idea. I didn't think at all before

I went into his office. I was I was super upset, which I had every right to be, and I was really angry, and I didn't think of what I wanted. I just wanted to like confront him and be like, you are terrible and I am right. And that did happen. And I when I first started reading Machiavelli, I brought my copy with the Prince for you. It's very beat up. Yes, I will, I will. He's quite eloquent. But I remember

just I was like, oh my god. It was like one of those moments when I looked back and I have kind of all this power in that moment I had all this knowledge, had all this power. If I had been more thoughtful about how to approach that moment, then I really could have used that moment in a way that would have I mean, I did get a raise because of the sort of terrible confrontation, but I could have used it in a much more productive way.

So you're still at that moment, you know, in the hot box, right, You're still living inside these world of these gender expectations that screw women at work basically, So are there particular moves you could have made in that setting where you had power, where you had this moment, when you could negotiate from where that would have sort of optimized it kind of in a Machiavellian way. Yeah. So what I wish I would have done is I

think about it a little bit strategically. It's like, Okay, well, I know that you know, this Ralph is making twenty thousand dollars more than I am, so I also know that I have more experience, so I can walk in and say, listen, you know, I was really really excited to be promoted into this position and you had you know, I really appreciate that you you took this chance on me, and I know that's a big deal, and I know that you know weren't sure if if it would work out.

But I think I've been a really strong performer now that I have established myself in this job and this is a fair workplace. I know. I think my salary really needs to be adjusted. I know what this workplace tends to pay for the kind of work I'm doing, and at the level that I'm working, I think a salary of X would be more appropriate. What do you think? And I think that would have been way better than what I did, which got me a ray. I didn't get all the way to match my mail colleague salary.

I think I got, Like I think I got a raise of like ten thousand dollars or something like that, but I think I could have gotten more than twenty thousand dollars by kind of making a logical case, and I didn't. There are things you recommend in the book that you're not saying now, and like I don't know if it's because it's uncomfortable, Like you say in the book that in a negotiation like that, women should smile, which seems like a terrible I'm not going to say.

I don't like it's in the book though, now, like you're you're saying all the nice things now because it's like sure, but like let's get get to the gnarly machiavellium part. Okay, the gnarly macifellium, Like smile is like a terrible thing you're not supposed to tell with a smile, right, Okay, Yeah, So it's like smile. People tend to respond better to women in negotiations when they bring up like a social connection. So it's like, oh, hey, how's it going, how is

your trip to grease? Um? You smile? You don't know adversarial behavior. You keep things very positive. People really like it when women are positive and supportive and express empathy. So it's like, oh, you know, I know, I totally understand that you're dealing with a you know, a butt

like a really tight budget and that's really stressful. I totally get that, you know, that kind of thing, um, and that I was reading all this stuff in these studies and I was like, oh my god, but I said, I remember I jon C. Williams wrote the scrap book What Works for Women at Work, and she was expressing to me we were talking about what to do if you're interrupted, and she was presenting like all these really terrible scenarios like saying like oh yeah, you know, Jacob,

I I really you know, or if your ideas get stolen into meeting. But you know, I was like, this is really awkward. That's awful, and she was like, no, it really is. And she's like a lot of people, you know, don't want to look at this stuff. She's like, but you know, I don't necessarily want to smile. She was also talking about like wearing dresses more. One of the things she did was she would dress in a more feminine wake. She said she was brought a lot

of masculine energy to work. She was a lawyer, and she said she learned she wore more dresses and I was like, that doesn't feel great. She's like, listen, you have to do what's right for you. But she's like, I think, you know, behaving as you know, as if you're living in the world as it ought to be at great personal sacrifice and retiring with less money than you should have. She's like, I can't support that. She's like, so at least she's like, I think you should be

honest and Machiavelli was very much all about that. He talks a lot about you know, the way in which we live and the way we ought to live. Are things so wide asunder, is what he says. But you know, it's like the way that we should be and the way things are are not the same, and so you have to navigate, which is different for everybody, obviously, but you have to navigate the situation. So, yeah, that your negotiation might go better if you smile more, Your negotiation

might go better. If you dress in a more corporate way, your negotiation might go better. If you emphasize your social connection with somebody, Your negotiation might go better, if you're really understanding and express empathy for the issues that they

might be dealing with. It's a little stomach turney, yes, but I did make a promise to myself that I would lay the stuff out and be honest and at least give people the tools so that they weren't doing what I was doing, which is reading all this advice and trying it and like having you totally backfire and be like, but I did the thing in the book. At least I was like, well, at least you give people options, So yeah, that is that's the ugly truth.

Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. I understand how difficult it must be for you to ask these kinds of questions. So I really, I really like you. We're gonna take a quick break. If you're in the audience here, you can get a drink. If you're listening at home, you can have an ad. We're back live from caveat in New York City. I want to do another kind of big idea and another story together, as we do, like a story and an idea. Yeah, yeah, and just to

plant them together. Well, I'll say today at the office, somebody who's not here tonight, she couldn't come tonight, but she's like, oh my god, you're interviewing Stacy Vani Smith. And then she showed me a picture on her phone of a page from your book. She liked it so much she took a picture of it. I do not have to buy it, apparently, but enough to take a picture of it in the books, she said, she put

on her Amazon leash list halfway there. So the page was about something called the Cinderella syndrome, or that you call the Cinderella syndrome, or that is called. And there's also a particular story in the book that I think from your own life that kind of illuminates the syndrome. So the story from the book is when you were trying to get promoted from producer to reporter. So can you sort of tell that story and then talk about, you know, how it explains the Cinderella syndrome. Yes, and

then maybe we can get to the macavillin solution. Yes. Absolutely. So I was working as a producer at the time. I was an assistant producer, so I was starting out and I really really wanted to be on the air. It was the thing I had always I wanted to be a reporter, and I would I would report stories for the I was working at Marketplace at the time, and I was working in the middle of the night.

I was working the Graveyard Ship, so it was it was really rough hours, but I would stay up and I would report stories and I would kind of you could do little freelance stories if you were a producer, and so I was doing this quite regularly, and every time a reporter job came up, I would apply, and I applied to like six or seven of them over a period of four years, and I just never even got an interview, even though my work was on the air pretty regularly, so they had a feeling of what

I could do. I wasn't totally unqualified to be applying. And I went to the my boss, like the head of the company, and I was like, yeah, I just I just applied for like an eighth job and I'm not I'm not even getting interviews, and I'm just wondering what's going on. And he was like, well, you know, these jobs are super competitive, and you know your stuff is solid, but it lacks specialness. And I was like, I still remember specialness because that's not a word, but

I really internalized that. I was like, oh, my stuff is not special enough. And of course, looking back at that through the lens of Machiavelli, I see it quite differently, but at the time I just believed him. I was like, Okay, he does not think my work is special enough. So I worked for like eight months and saved and saved and saved and saved money, and then I went in to quit my job. I was going to quit and I was gonna be a radio freelancer, which I did.

So I went in to quit the job and in the meeting where I was quitting, he was like, well, why don't we put you on a reporting contract? And I was like, well, wait, I don't know if you remember this, but I'm not that special. And I was so puzzled, and I was like great, you know, I was thrilled. So I signed the contract. And of course, looking back, I was like, I was a producer in the middle of the night. That is a really hard job to fill. A reporting job is much easier to fill.

If he hired me for a reporting job, he would be vacating a slot that was it's for the morning show. So it's it's a really it's a hard job. It's a demanding job, and it's a really hard job to fill. It was just making a problem for him. That is why he was like, that's why I wasn't getting interviews. It had nothing to do with my ability as a reporter. This happens. But this kind of thing actually happens to women, especially quite a bit. And so just what is the

Cinderella syndrome? So that's the story. What's the Cinderella So the Cinderella syndrome is from the Cinderella's story. Um and in the story there's you know, Cinderella is trying to go to the ball, and she asks the evil stepmother like, I want to go to the ball. And I go to the ball. Evil summers like, totally go to the ball. We just need you to, you know, clean the banister, sweep the chimney, all this stuff. And Cinderella is like, okay,

I'm gonna do it. And so she cleans the banister and sweeps the everything, and then she's like, can I go And the stem was like, no, you don't. Yeah, I'm sorry. It just feels you're just yeah, she just seemed like ball material. Um so. But but how this relates is women will often get stuck in this situation. And whereas men will sometimes get promoted and often get promoted on their potential, women will get promoted on the work that they've done and they'll be asked to prove

themselves over and over and over again. And it just has to do with again, unconscious biases and where people see certain things. It's like, you know, I think he might be a really good host, which isn't necessarily going to occur for and this also happens with people of color and other marginalized groups. Just like they don't look like a host or people are just I don't know, it's my gut feeling. A lot of the stuff happens

with gut feelings. So a lot of times, especially with women, they'll be asked to do you prove themselves over and over and over again, as I was proving myself over and over and over again, and yet getting told different things that are not necessarily true, like well, well, just put in a little more time, try to make your work a little more special. It had nothing to do with that. It was something else entirely, and yeah, so okay,

so that's the problem. What's the Machiavellian solution. Well, the Mackiewellian solution, I think in my case would have been to recognize that me leaving my job is going to make a problem. So to come to my boss with a solution and say, listen, you know kneel over here, I know is really eager for promotion. I think he'd be really great in this job. Why don't you put

him in that job for six months. He would be great, he'd be trained up, he could fill in for me, and then I would, you know, get to be a reporter and just basically anticipate the problem, see it from his point of view, and solve it while proposing the thing that I want. I think that would be. It seems less unappealing than the other All the solutions are unappealing. That's true. They're most interesting when they're unappealing, they're most interestingly.

There were those were really really hard ones to write. Some of them really were. Did people get mad at you for writing a book where you tell women to smile? Yeah? Yeah, I mean some people were upset at some of the advice. I mean not a lot of the advice is just more practical, like do a lot of research, find out what people in. So a lot of it is not stomachtorney, but some of it. The most stomach atorney You'll really like this, Jacob, was when I did the motherhood chapter.

This was probably the most surprising research I did in the book. Was the penalty for motherhood, the discrimination that mother's experience. It is insane. The pay gap between women who have children and women who don't is bigger than the gender pay gap. And women they when they would have identical resumes with like a woman's you know, women's name, and one of the resumes indicated children like pta and

special interests or something. Women would be recommended for lower salaries by fifteen percent, and people would look at their resumes far more critically as far as um and be much more inclined to impose harsher penalties for things like lateness. So automatically there's just a feeling of her real job isn't this job is what comes up? And so of course what we want is to solve the underlying problem. It needs to be solved. We want that not to

be a problem. But there's also this sort of in the meantime problem what do we do about what do we do about it? Right? There are mothers every day trying to get a job, trying to get promoted. The world is still broken in this way. Like what's the Maciewellian solution. Macuefellian solution is I called everyone about this because I was like, I don't want to put this in the book. Basically it said, you know before you know, if you know you're you're before you have your baby,

talk to your boss, make really concrete plans. Basically, act like you're going on vacation, even if you're not even sure you're going to come back. Or how you're going to deal with childcare. Just be like, okay, great, so I'll be back in April and I'll pick up this project right where I left off and just kind of don't let them what they call mommy track you. And it's a really real I mean, the research is insane. The other thing was just oh, oh, Jacobus, you put

it in there. I know, I did, I know, but you're you basically, don't talk about your baby. You come back to work, you just don't mention the baby, like, don't show pictures. I mean, it's not pretty. And I really hated writing that, because it's a beautiful thing. You've got a baby. You should shout it from the rooftops. That's wonderful, the circle of life. And yet people will use it as an excuse not to promote you, to

pull you off important projects. And so yeah, my two major pieces of advice from the research were really painful. It was basically, don't talk about your baby and then work as if you do not have a baby, which it's really rough, but I think it maybe highlights the gravity of the problem too. How have people reacted to that part of the book. The people who have talked to me about it. Who have children have actually sort of agreed. I did have. Actually that's not entirely true.

One woman was like, no, I brought my baby to work. She's like, nothing is going to change if people basically hide the fact they have children. She's like, your book is going to keep people back, like instead of sort of pushing the issue forward. And she made a really good point. And she had said she in her workplace had made a real point of bringing her baby to work, and eventually she'd even left her office because she said she'd still run into so many issues and started started

her own business. But she was like, nothing's going to change if yeah, And so there is some tension right where if you like are dealing if you're just living in the bad fighting it better, Yes, if you're navigating inside of a croup. But this is the This is the complication of living in a system that, as you said, in certain ways is broken, is that you have to work in it and try to change it, and that is enormously difficult. At the same time, you're just like

trying to pay your gas bill, you know. So it's there is it is a painful thing, and I think it's a painful thing to experience and to talk about. There's a great maybe the opposite of Machuveli, but Eckert Totlee has had this piece of advice that I remember listening to and I was like, that's very Machiavellian, Whereas like, there are three sane responses to a difficult situation. You change the situation. If you can't change the situation, you

leave the situation. If you can't change or leave the situation, you accept the situation. It was like, that is actually very Machiavelian. It's like, this is the situation. What are you going to do? Like? What are the actions you can take? And what I really appreciated about Machubli was like ways forward. And I think I had sort of been spinning in the outrage and the herd and the shame and the unfairness and all that for a long time, and I think Macubeli kind of showed me a way

out coming up the lightning round. After this break, Now that to the show. Now it's time for the lightning Okay, all right? What happens in the lightning round? Do I ask you questions and you answer them quickly but in rapid fashion, Okay, okay, I guess that's kind of in the title. What would Machiavelli think of Machiavelli for women? I think he would be psyched that he was still being talked about. Yeah, and I don't think he would care that. I don't think you would be like, well,

I don't want women in power. I think he'd be like, great, they're talking about like in more people potentially buying my book. I think he would be excited. That's a fairy Machiavelli in response, what's one thing a boss or manager can do to make the kinds of problems you talk about in the book a little better? Put like systems in place. I think, like I said, a lot of the gut feeling stuff is where a lot of these problems come in.

So making kind of a system, like Okay, when we're hiring for this position, we're going to like take names off resumes first, or we're only going to look at candidates that have like X, Y and Z, or we're not going to look at these things. Those things can kind of help avoid some of the biases that come up. What's your favorite thing about Machiavelli the man, the person, not the writer. M I think what I loved about

Machiavelli was when I started reading about his life. He actually wrote The Prince at a time when he lost everything that he had. He was a very impressive career. He was basically the secretary of State for Florence for a while, was like met Kings, and but then power changed hands and they, like the new leader, like took all his money away from him and put him in jail and tortured him and exiled him. And that was

where he wrote The Prince. And I mean, that's like a weird thing to have it to be my favorite thing about Machiavelli, but I think it humanized him for me. Yeah, you described The Prince as a as a cover letter, right for a job, and he never got that job, right, He never sort of made it back to power, so he held right. And I'm curious, like, did he need Machiavelli for Machiavelli And if so, like what would it say. I mean, he was in a situation, so he basically

wrote The Prince. And in the beginning of the Prince there's this weird apology treatise to the people who basically taken everything from him and tortured him, and he was like, Oh, you're amazing, and here are just my crappy ideas. But I'm just going to present you the very best things I've learned from all my millions of years of experience. Take it or leave it was Lorenzo de Medici never

even looked at it. Apparently never looked at it, and Machiavelli did not ever get back to sort of the career that he had or the life that he had. I think the thing the piece of advice that I would give him at that point, because then he did start like writing plays and poems and stuff. It was just to let go of that thing. I don't think he could have gotten back there. So I think I would have encouraged him to maybe let go of his

old life and like maybe look for something new a little. So, what's one piece of advice you'd give to someone trying to solve a hard problem, Maybe to get curious. I think that's the biggest lesson I've learned, so, like, instead of getting angry or afraid, which are kind of my two go to responses in situations, especially if it feels like a lot at steak, to kind of just get curious and like explore a little because I think that

can open your mind up and you can find solutions. So, now that you've shown how useful Machiavelli is for women, what other domains should we be using Machiavelli in. I mean, I don't think there's like a lack of machiavellianness in the world. I know someone was like, are you going to do Macchiavelli for babies, because you know in New York you'd like, I don't know. I feel like babies are super Macchiavellian already. They don't need a book. They're

very good about that. Who needs Machiavelli? I mean maybe the climate needs Machiavelli. I think, like some of thee the things that are important but difficult to tackle, I think are good. It's a good domain for Machiavelli. Say that's the end of the lightning round. All right, that's it, Thank you very much. Thanks Jacob Stacy Vannick. Smith is the author of Machiavelli for Women. Defend your worth, grow

your ambition, and win the workplace. Thanks very much to our sponsors Geico and ZIP Recruiter Special Thanks also to Robert Smith, the whole staff here at Caveat also to Edith Russelo, Carly Migliori, Nicole Morano, and Maggie Taylor. At Pushkin and at iHeart. Thanks to Kathy Callahan, Mattie Aaron's, Will Pearson, Christine Flipsy, Jawara Parker, Allison Wright, Nathan Otoski, and Connal Burn. I'm Jacob Goldstein and we'll be back next week with another episode of What's Your Problem Beautiful