Pushkin. There's two ways in. There's two ways in, and I'll let you choose. One way in is pizza and tokyo.
The other way you got, what's the second one? What's the second one?
The second one is the more uh thinky, the more intellectual way in, which is like electrification is great, but like the wire going into my house isn't big enough basically to get all the electricity into my house that I need.
Let's start with pizza.
I'm Jacob Goldstein and this is What's Your Problem, the show where I talk to people who are trying to make technological progress. My guest today is Sam Demico. He's the founder and CEO of Impulse Labs, which is a company that makes induction stoves. Sam's problem is this, how do you build a really good DRIC cook top that people can install without having to rewire their house, and that, by the way, could eventually help transform the way electric
power works in America. It's an ambitious project, ambitious stove, and it goes back to this moment when Sam ordered a pizza. He was working for Facebook at the time, helping to build their Oculus VR headset, and he was at a conference in Tokyo. What neighborhood in Tokyo did you have the pizza?
I think it was. I think it was near Akasaka station. It's like, savoid pizza.
Okay, so tell me about the pizza.
I order my pizza and I get it back in like forty five seconds or like a minute or something insane. I probably say a different number of different people. But it was fast enough and absolutely fantastic. Then Krispy a lot of garlic, super super good, like master of the craft type situation. So I get this, and I'm like, I want to do this at home, and I don't want to have to have a giant brick oven in
my backyard. And so I was like, it would be really sweet if you could do this with electrical electricity.
And how are they doing it? What's going on?
So this is a classic like how normal brick oven pizzas make, and I was like, I want to replicate that like an old school brick oven. The amount of infrared power that thing dumps onto the pizza because the fire reflects off of a curved bowl above the of the pizza. It okay, I'm like, could I just do this with halogen light bulbs? And a lot of power. Could a pizza oven that makes a pizza of that quality be an electronic device? And I was like, I
let's figure this out. And I realized that the power density of like the amount of infrared and the heating you need to get that onto the pizza, you were going to need more than a normal one twenty volt plug.
So you're saying that if you you figured out how much power you would need to make a pizza of them that could get that hot from electricity. Yeah, and you realize that you couldn't build a device that you could just plug into the wall because it would need too much power. That's the fundamental constraint.
Of bingo bingo exactly. I was like, okay, well, how often are you using this thing? And also how often is it even if you're like cranking out pizzas, like you're gonna be like prepping the next pizza, Like, there's time in between for say a battery to recharge, uh huh, in between the various pizza making sessions.
Right.
So I went and just looked at this and I was like, Okay. I sized the battery pack and I'm like, okay, this is getting large. It's not like it's not it's not like laptop battery size. It's more like it's getting into like those little stationary like batteries you use for camping or something like that. It was getting into that. It was getting into that a lot.
So you realize you're gonna need a lot of battery power. But what I just want to pause before we get into like how big were the battery, because the idea of the battery is I feel like at a certain level, it's why I want to talk to you, right Otherwise, yeah, the stoves, like the battery is a great, big, powerful
idea with lots of ramifications. Right, And so the first the first, the first thing, the first reason you think of the battery is you realize, oh, you can use the regular outlet, just the same outlet that whatever I
charge my phone on. You can use for like a super powerful, super hot stove if you add a battery, because the battery can just draw power all day when the stove is just sitting there, and then when you go to turn on the stove, it can discharge a ton of energy all at once, more than you could get out of the outlet. Right, Like that is that's upside insight because we don't think of home appliances that way, right.
And it's always and your appliance is always plugged in. Why would you put a battery in something that is always plugged in? Yeah, which is kind of the like weird yeah right that you have to make yeah.
Right, because right right? Why not just get it enough power whenever you want on it?
Bingo? And then I was like, Okay, this is a good idea. Let's pressure test what would actually cause a VC to want to invest in this. And I then kind of started fanning out beyond just me being like I want my pizza really fast and in high quality. And by the way, this pizza in my head is like glistening in its pizza way. I'm like this, this is this is like I want this pizza. But you have to think about, hey, is this a platform? Is there a wedge into a broader market? What's the big
story here? And so and so what I realized was like, let's look at other appliances what the story is. And I I then thought through kind of the implications and I was like, Okay, for the bigger appliances, say the ones that normally plug in with like a two forty evolt plug like the bigger one, or like a dryer, like a stovetop and of it like a wall of it, or a range product or a hot water heater, and how big is the battery going to be in those cases?
And I kind of did the math and sizing, and I was like, oh, it's going to be like north of two kilo what hours at least? So I'll give you the scaling factor on this is like is like you you could very quickly take like four, three or four major appliances because you think of all the big boxes you've got in your house. Times a couple of KILLO on hours batteries, you get about the same amount of storage as a Tesla power wall.
A Tesla powerwall being the like you can live off the grid you put your panels on your roof, and a Tesla powerwall. So you're basically saying you can sort of distribute a like live off the grid amount of batteries if you could put a battery on the stove and the fridge and the hot water heater.
Yes, yes, exactly. Then I looked at what was happening in the stationary storage battery industry and it was like it was all focusing on these centralized battery systems like a battery wall battery wall type product. They weren't addressing all the wiring in your house. And also, like appliances, basically they haven't seen a lot of innovation in like
fifty years or so. It's like induction stoves are fifty years old for reference, so's it's like, this is an opportunity to generationally advance the appliance industry and then also wedge like let's call it ten plus kill a lot of hours of batteries into every home in America. That is really interesting, right, Like that is a bigger story than your pizza is awesome.
So there's a few balls in the air right now, how do you land on starting with an induction stove?
So we thought of doing maybe tabletop devices first because they'd be easier.
But I don't know what that means.
Tabletop device would be like you could imagine the pizza oven being an ambitious one, but you could think of like there's other product ideas we've been peddling around. It's like kettle just like that. Yeah, ok, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you could do something. There's a lot of things that have high peak power demands that are interesting.
We were like, we got an air fryer and it keeps blowing out the circuit breaker. We can't run the air fryer and the microwave at the same time. Give me a battery.
I know, I will know. No announcements on this podcast for product announcements.
Okay, but those feel sort of small ball compared to a stovetop right, Like an air fryer is like kind of a luxury weirdo item, whereas everybody has a stove. I mean, is that part of why you land on a stove.
There's there's two reasons. One is there has not been there's actually a lot of meat on the bone where you could say, like if I make your hot water heater like three times more powerful, you can't make the water three times hotter.
Most people wouldn't notice the difference if their water heater.
So this is this is the key insight is gas stoves are and like the knobs and all that stuff, the ui ux of the stove is the fuel source.
And so just to be clear, when you say you mean the user interface user experience, like when you turn on a gas stove, you can see the gas flame. That's what you can It's the place in your house where you actually see, like, oh, I am burning fossil fuel in order to cook spaghetti.
Gas stoves are the one situation where if you want to make a fossil fuel free home or like electrify the home completely, you would be That is the one mental block and like actual like performance block where people are like, well, I like my gas stove and I can't get rid of it.
Nobody's going to be like I love my gas dryer or I love my gas water.
Who cares? Yeah, yeah, No, that's it. That's a cost thing. That's like a that's like a maybe maybe my gas company's expensive, maybe is cheap. You'll pe people.
Don't have an attachment to a gas water heater the way they have an attachment to a gas stove. Yes, exactly, I buy that, But that seems like a reason you wouldn't want to do and stove as your first one. That seems to make it harder, not easier.
So that's one piece. But then the second piece was the battery. Lets us beat the pants off of anything else.
In the market in terms of performance.
Performance In terms of performance, it.
Goes back to the amazing pizza oven.
Yes, it goes back to the amazing piece of a thing where it's like and so thinking through this was where is there like a wedge where like you have to beat fossil fuels by a resolutely huge amount to displace it. So that's why it has happened. Fully, we can do it. And it's also an installed appliance. So the and this is the piece that I'm going to
get it next. So the battery can be wired in a way where it can support the grid by charging and discharging into the house, not just like the appliance having a boost from the battery basically.
So there's sort of two different ideas. There two reasons you wanted to do the stove right. So one the first one you said, is because it can you can use the battery to make a better electric stove than exists now and to make a stove that is better than any gas stove that exists now. Yes, and that improvement is meaningful to the typical homeown or the typical human being in a way that a better water heater who cares.
Yeah, and like better water hitter may save you money, like say you go to a heat pump water hitter. It's like, oh, my energy bill is two to three and a half times less, yeah, versus a resistant one. Cool, but in our case, it's like your water literally boils ten times faster than your gastove.
I want to talk about that. Let's we'll get back to the wiring thing and the battery and that your battery can then like go back into the grid. Like I like all that. It's very interesting. It's a big idea there. I want to talk about it, but I want to wait a minute to talk about that. And I want to just talk about induction stoves, yeah, for a minute in a few ways. Right, So one, I mean just simply just like kind of basic A basic
thing is like there's different kinds of electric stoves. Right, there's the kind like I had as a child in the nineteen eighties with the coil that gets orange, right, And then there's the kind that you know people had as a child in the whatever two thousands, where it's a flat piece of glass and the little circle gets red right.
Ye.
And to be clear, neither of those is an induction stove.
They are both terrible as well.
They are terrible, right, So I grew up with that and now I have gas, and I'm like, I like gas because you know the other one. You turn it on and it takes forever to get hot, and then you turn it off and it's still hot, which, like you like pan really bad. Yeah, if you've got a bunch of things on the stove, there's nowhere to put it and gas, Like, you turn it on and you can see it, and you turn it off and like any pan will work on it. You don't need special pans.
You can turn the knob turn, does it you see the flame? Like at a certain non rational level, I'm wary of induction stoves. First of all, tell me why I'm wary of induction stoves.
Yeah, so I think it's. I think it's because the entire history of electric stoves has been disappointing. The first generation of with the coils that is like a it's like a heating ailment that conducts into the pan basically, and the knob controls that. It takes like minutes for that to change its temperature. So the next gen is they're like, let's just basically put a light bulb underneath.
So that's the flat piece of glass with the red circle under it. That is also like confusing and kind of slow and bad.
Yes, it's it's terrible, it's bad. And then and then induction is this technology that directly heats the pan with magnetic fields. And so this is one where it's like there's nothing glowing red, there's nothing actually getting hot.
Besides stove itself is not getting hot on an induction stone.
And we always get asked this question from people being like putting a battery in a stove, isn't the stove really hot? And I'm like, the stove is not hot, the pan is hot. You form a large electric current in the base of the pan. The pan is made of steel, not like copper, so it's kind of poor in terms of electrical conductivity, so it doesn't it impedes the flow of electricity.
And that generates heat to let the electricity flow through it. And that resistance is what creates heat in the pan.
In the pan, yes, huh.
What kind of pans work and what kind of pants don't work on an induction.
So you can make all of them work. Most pans work. There are two pans that generally have issues unless they have a laminated iron layer in them, and those are like the copper pans and the aluminum pans, and a lot of aluminum pans. Very commonly, they laminate a like a steel disc on the bottom to make induction stoves work these days.
Skill to come on the show, Sam walks me through what I would need to do to install a regular, non battery powered induction stove in my house, and that explanation points to a really big problem that has to be solved if we're going to electrify homes around the country. Also, how Sam thinks he can help solve that problem. There is a kind of second order problem with switching stove, which is like, even if I decide, okay, I want an induction stove, regular induction stove, not talking about what
you're building. I want a stove, I'll get rid of my gas stove. I'll buy an induction stove. For whatever reason, my house may not be wired for it. Right, Like, I'm already willing to pay for the stove, but I can't just buy the stove and get somebody to bring it in and plug it in often, right, my house is one hundred years old. I have a gas stove and a gas off and what would I have to do if I wanted to get an induction stove.
So where the where in the country. Where in the country is your.
House of Brooklyn, New York?
Excellent, Okay, this is I can I can give you an even more micro tailored example. So here's the situation. You're like, I'm doing a kitchen remodel, I'm doing whatever. I'm like, I'm gonna I want to get a new stove. I heard this induction thing is awesome, Let's go do it. And then there's like the Then it's basically like you talk to your general contractor and you're like, oh, you need to run a new two hundred and forty volt
circuit to your kitchen from your panel. If you if you were lucky and you don't live in Brooklyn, this is typically like five hundred bucks. Like it's not a huge deal. So then the next piece is they're then going to go to your panel and they're gonna open it up and they're gonna look at the numbers for what your panel is rated for and your electrical panel for folks, that that's the that's the metal box that has all the circum rates. Like yeah, so you open
that up. There's a label on the inside and it says maximum let's say sixty amps, because I'm picking on if you have a Brooklyn apartment or something like that, that would be what it is. It'll say sixty amps. You then look at the spec sheet for the induction stove, it says sixty amps. You would need to use your entire Brooklyn h electrical supply. A new panel is like three grand or something like that, Okay, or four grand. So this is like more expensive than a lot of
induction stoves. Like you buy some great products from SAMs like are LG those are those are the panel upgrade and the rewiring is going to be more expensive than the entire stuff stove.
Yeah, and I've heard you talk about one more step right which which goes beyond the panel, and it's about like how much power is coming into the house from the street. What is that piece of it.
Let's say you want to get a two hundred amp panel, you may only have one hundred and twenty five amp service, which means you're going to have to call up con ed and maybe wait eighteen months. That's what the lead times are for PGN in San Francisco for them to go and upgrade your service from the street.
And do they charge me for that as well?
Yes, and that can be over ten thousand dollars.
I will say, even having to call con ed, even before you got to the tenth thousand dollars in waiting a year, I'm basically out right if I got a call cond to get a new stove, like my stove is fine.
Whatever you're you're on the side of big gas and you love it. So that's the situation and scope of this problem.
And so that I mean, so whatever the level is, right, So you've sort of stepped through like.
There's a somewhat level.
Oh I was okay, I was already sold. What's the fourth level?
If you were the like last person on your street to want to do this. And by the way, all of your neighbors are getting EV chargers installed and also doing the service upgrades. Even if they don't care what their stove uses, they're gonna need to get to charge your Tesla. It's the same as a Tesla charger and a induction stove are both like forty to sixty apps, so it's the same. So that's the order of Magnazue
need to think. You may have to if you're the last person, you may have to pay to upgrade the transformer. And because we stop building stuff in America anymore, there is an insane lead time on transformers.
Now, yeah, I mean at this point it's like whatever, you gotta get out a rocket ship and go to the moon. Right, So there is an idea here that is really interesting to me, right, and to you as well obviously, Like there's this basic idea of like, yes, we're all going to electrifire homes over some timescale, hopefully faster rather than slower, right, and great, and people are figuring out, you know whatever, nice efficient ways to eat
water and dry clothes and cook food with electricity. Great, but there's this very basic sort of last mile problem, right, last ten feet problem of getting enough electricity just to the stove from whatever the panel from the street that is. That is a real problem.
I think the last ten feet problem is kind of a way to think of like versus last mile, but last ten feet it is like a really great way to think about it.
And it's kind of fractal.
Right.
It's like first it's like from the from the panel to the stove is one of them, and then like from the panel to the street is another one, and and uh.
From the outlet to the induction coil, because you could make it more powerful.
Yeah, the last one. Yeah, And so the battery. Sticking a battery on the electrical appliance becomes essentially a hack, uh that that allows you to sidestep the problem because you don't actually need the electricity all the time. Yes, you don't actually need a bigger wire. You just need to be able to store the amount of electricity that's coming into the house now.
Yeah, exactly, And we've done we cook a lot in the office with our prototypes and units we've gotten back from manufacturer as well, and like what we found is a normal one twenty volt outlet on a stove is more than enough to keep the battery charged while you're cooking, Which is counterintuitive because it turns out that like when you're using any of these high power draw appliances, even when they're quote unquote working, like the peak and the
average are so widely disparate that there is a huge opportunity here. And like the big thing is, like all of these new things we're doing to our homes for electrification, induction stoves, heat pump water heaters, dryers, et cetera. All of them are like high peak load. So if you basically put what's called like a peaker power plant inside the device when you deploy it, you've addressed that problem as you scale.
So you're saying, like the standard way of solving this problem of like whatever bigger panel, bigger wire coming to your house, maybe of whatever a new transformer on your block that is all designed to handle these just rare moments when you have like all the burners going full blast for a minute and it's like, no, we don't actually have to rebuild the world around that. We can just store up power because we're never almost never doing that.
And if you just stick a battery on it and store up the power, that solves it.
Yep, that makes that's exactly it.
There's another thing you can do, right, which is use that power that's in the battery, not just for the stove, but send it where, send it to my house, send it back to the grid, Like is what is the other move? Once you have a battery on the stove.
You're not cooking the complete battery capacity, Like we're able to give you like three or four meals worth of battery storage. Huh, you're able to use the excess energy to offset, say you're heating maybe during peak hours. So like typically in New York and in San Francisco, in La many places, there's widely different electricity rates depending on if it's like noon and there's like excess solar on the grid or at six pm and everyone just got home and is turning on their induction star.
And this is a huge problem in energy right. In fact, the utilities build gas fired power plants that exist only for the moments when everybody suddenly turns everything on and there's a huge amount of peak demand. Right there are these peaker power plants that are inefficient and expensive, and if we could figure out how to smooth demand from the utility, like that would be great. Right. It's cheaper
for consumers, but it's also way more efficient. And you're saying, these batteries on whatever, a bunch of stoves can actually like power your house at the moment when you really don't want to be pulling power from the grid.
We also we have inter access. We're connect to the internet and like that. These are kind of the things like nests does for kind of the like, uh, are you home, how to manage kind of like the heating in your house for like home energy optimization and saving you money. We essentially can use some of the similar signals to then say, hey, you're done cooking for the day, we can drain a chunk of the rest of the battery. Now we're going to get people options. So this is
not like done behind your back or whatever. Sure, but the but the idea is like you then can drain the rest of the battery to say that with that energy being used for your HVAC or.
For so I can use the energy in the battery on my stove to power the rest of my house.
Yeah, you're gaming PC whatever you want?
Yes, huh and that works? Now? Is that the dream? Or like, when you start selling stoves later this year, will that work?
Are are we're hardware able to do this? There's regulatory compliance steps to go through on that, and we're the goal here is to have this enabled on all of our hardware.
So let's let's talk about the hardware. I love the dream. I feel like we gave the dream it's due. Let's talk about the reality. I know you started accepting pre orders, yep. When when are like people going to be able to get their stoves for real, like, not as a special trial, not as like ceci Q four. Okay, how confident are you in that verition? Very great? What do you have to figure out between now and then?
I will speak generically because I want to I some of this stuff is more confidential terms of where we are in the process and how this stuff works. But the general way you approach hardware is first you kind of were like, does this idea work like? And so we went and like built prototype stoves that had a battery in them, have tested out the whole system. You basically want to use that to figure out how to scope out what you actually want to design now that
you know kind of the details of it. Start with that. You then need to land the manufacturing partners that actually scale up, and you need to actually go start doing a sequence of builds with those manufacturing partners with kind of like three or four month cadence where you're increasing the fidelity of the product and increasing the fidelity of
the manufacturing process. I mean, there's then Elon quote that I think is reasonable here, which is like the factory is the product, but effectively it's like you need to build the machine that builds the machine, and not just figuring out the spec sheet of the thing that you post on the website, but like you have to make sure that you have confidence not just in the like, hey, this thing is going to be the best to have ever, but like we will also be able to deliver this
to you at at scale, reliably, et cetera. And so we are at the point where we've figured out all of the details that are kind of like let's call it the major changes to the product. So it's like the units we're building are representative of the final thing. Then you are running through a suite of tests, some of which are like in the lab being like, hey does this thing scratch if I like use the wrong cleaning agent or something. It's like it's like you're doing a matrix of tests.
You're trying to break it.
You're trying to break it. You're trying to break it. You're also doing software development because it's like you have to develop this is a product that's like a connected device. It's got a lot of software and firmware. There's a lot of like compliance aspects of that too, So there's code stuff. There's what's called like ul.
Like underwriters laboratory, that little thing that's on the tag on every lamp you ever owned, right.
Like, this includes stuff like FCC, Like you have to make sure that you pass FCC.
If you have a ready communications commission because it because it's like Wi Fi enabled or something.
It's not just as Wi Fi. If it has an induction coil, you have to make sure that it's like you know, like it's not gonna jam your WiFi by accident. It's all of these sort of there's there's a huge host of details here that you have to get right. And it's not just checking all the boxes. It's also making sure the product is safe, right like like it's like safe safe and so doing all of that is a process into itself.
And so so you have a lot to do. Fine, Uh, how much is it going to cost?
We are currently selling units on our website for fifty five This is normal for high end induction stoves. So if you look at if you look at some of the top brands in the industry, this is what they sell for similar scope.
You could get a nice one for half of that. Certainly you can get a nice one for It's just a stove, to be clear, it's not an.
Oven, yes exactly. Now that's the headline price. Now, a big change that the Inflation Reduction Act did has to do with batteries. There's a thirty percent tax credit for battery products.
And so do you get thirty percent off the whole stove as a result.
We're working through the specific details, but as it stands now, I believe so. And then additionally, the IRA takes off eight hundred and forty dollars via rebate if you have a gas stove and you want to switch to this.
So that that's going to help you a lot.
That's the first piece. And then the second piece is because you're putting a battery in your home. Once we kind of have the deployment with battery storage and all this other stuff working, you can save money on your energy bill at the like and depending on where you live and what your rate disparities are and what other program there's other programs for virtual power plants and all
this other stuff. There's potentially a like thousands of dollars in like savings you can have on energy costs over the lifetime of the product.
And will that will that kind of dynamic use of the battery be ready I know it'll be technically ready to go from the point of view of the stove and the battery when you ship, we'll will.
Have we will have a subset of that all ready to go at ship date.
And will the sort of like utility regulatory whatever side be be ready then? Or is that going to take like forever because it's utility.
It's not gonna take. It's not gonna take forever. There is a path to making a let's call it the eighty twenty version of this work. Yeah, very fast.
There's a version where you can do a lot of it.
Yeah soon. Yeah, okay, And I think that's actually that's something that we're keeping a little close to the chest until we're further along. Can tell on to talk about that.
Yeah, so you're gonna ship stoves to people on or before December thirty first, twenty twenty four. What are you going to do next?
We're evaluating other form factors of like appliances. I mean, I'll say, I'll give you a freebie as we're definitely gonna be doing an oven and I want to have a pizza mode for that. But like you get the idea there.
Right, because I mean, so what you're selling now is just a cook top, right, so the oven would actually be the obvious next one, so that you could sell the range, right, the stovetop and oven, Like, what's the constraint there?
You literally need to have a much bigger logistical footprint as a business.
What is a happy story to you of how the world looks in five years?
Yeah, so I think I think the happy story is like if you can go get a substantial fraction of appliance installs, but like if a company can get like a million homes with this with and we're able to connect the batteries in a way where they're able to do kind of the equivalent of vehicle to home type thing. You're in a spot where you have enough storage to be kind of a big player on the grid.
That's the real the real game for you is not the stove. It's not bringing the power in. It's sending the power back out. That's that's your reeling gig.
It's both, it's both, it's both and so it's like it's like you make the stove that is the best stove that is also the easiest to install stove. Yeah, and then you basically are just deploying more batteries than anyone else on the grid.
Through that hook, there's a universe where you're not just a stove company. You impost labs are selling electricity into the grid, and the electricity is coming from the stoves of your customers who are in somehow participating in this. Maybe they're getting some of the revenue, say.
Exactly, or they got a discount on the product, or there's some incentive structure. We are yes, that's I think that's one hundred percent correct.
We'll be back in a minute with the light ground. Okay, let's do the lightning round. What kind of stove views at home?
Okay, this is going to change in like soon, But it's a Viking four burner, say it's it's a Viking four burners stove.
Gas gas gas gas stove. It's a great stove. That's a fancy stove.
It takes it takes six and a half minutes to boil a liter of water on the same pan. It takes forty seconds for our stove to do what.
What's like a go to weeknight dinner to cook for you.
I've had less time to do that more recently, but I do like doing stir fry stuff.
Is it right that you worked on on Google Glass? Yes, so Google Glass was a long time and I was ten years ago. Maybe. Uh it's basically augmented reality glasses.
Right.
Yeah, it didn't work, right, the Google Glass doesn't exist today. I don't mean it didn't work technically, I mean and it didn't catch on. Uh So I'm curious, what is something you learned from from the failure of Google Less.
I definitely look back fondly to days when Google was like will like to do like extremely ambitious, like stick their neck out things, and I hope that with all this AI stuff happening, they're gonna do that again. And it seems like it might it might be happening, which is kind of cool.
Oh interesting, like like weird, kind of ahead of their time experiment.
Keep Google weird is like my like protest protest statement. We Also, because I was on the Camera Harbor team, we actually had the opportunity to speck out this one camera module. This is a trivia thing, this one camera module that went into this thing called Project Tango, which is this very future looking remember you know, like ar kit on your phone where you can do like the measure app on your iPhone and stuff that was like the first version. The first version of like ar on
phones was done at Google. We specked out a special camera for that. That same camera ended up on the Ingenuity helicopter on Mars.
That's fun. So you're saying you worked on a hell you worked on a camera that wound up on a helicopter on Mars. Yes, oh fun?
Okay as an intern.
Great, anything else you want to talk about.
We covered a huge amount of stuff.
This is we did good work. We did go work here. Delight to talk to you. Thank you for your time.
Thanks so much.
Sam Dimico is the founder and CEO of Impulse Labs. Today's show was produced by Gabriel Hunter Chang. It was edited by Lydia Jean Kott and engineered by Sarah Buguer. You can email us at Problem at Pushkin dot FM. I'm Jacob Goldstein and we'll be back next week with another episode of What's Your Problem