Welcome in What's Driving the Great Episode three thirty four. We are back on our regular schedule, and now is also when I would remind you all if you could to like, rate, subscribe, review, do all that stuff, because that does not only help us out a ton, but it also helps you guys out, because this time of year, sometimes we have varying schedules. You know when we're live, you know when the show's on the air. YouTube subscriptions
doing great. iTunes and Spotify could serve to do a little bit better, So if you download us on both places, be awesome. Also, next week taking the show on the road kind of we're gonna do a show from Vegas. I don't really have any of those specifics locked in yet, and I told the producers about ninety seconds ago that that was happening. But next Thursday we will be live from the World Series of Poker in Las Vegas, doing the show from there. Demands, how are.
You pretty good? Pops? You doing good to see you.
I'm good to see you as well. I realized when I saw Demons, I was like, oh boy, I've not actually spoken to Demonse since we signed off the pod last Wednesday. Not the best parenting job by me there probably should check in see how you're doing. But we have had I was in Indy, which we'll get into. Both of your aunts are in town and staying with us. So there's a lot going on over here, a lot going on in the sports world. And we know who's gonna win the NBA Championship. So all that is coming
up on the show. Here's what missed the cut. Denver officially promotes Dave Adalman to the head coach position. Tim Shallomey sitting, that's a real fan going courtside to Indianapolis. I love that from him. And Alex Polow, my guy wins the Indy five hundred. He's also a Chiefs guy. He's also you know, the racer of this generation. And I gotta tell you the audience knows we brought in, you know, my goddaughter ci r Fidel to the f one minute. I am not historically a motorsports guy. I
don't pretend to be a motorsports expert. I do, however, and this isn't pretending. Know that if you give me an assignment with enough lead time, I can learn pretty damn fast. And once we found out we were going to Indy. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna we're gonna be interviewing people. We're gonna, you know, probably have Oh wait, this person wants to come on. So I got to be prepared. So I went back to my roots of when I was having to do postgame call in shows
for lacrosse. In college, we did postgame call in shows for lacrosse for games that were road games that were only on the radio, so you couldn't watch it, and theoretically I didn't know the sport, and then I had to take people's calls about what happened in the game. And so I learned lacrosse, and so I kind of tried to flex that muscle again to learn IndyCar and now I mean, I'm basically an adopted member of the
Andretti family. More on that later in the show, but in the meantime, Demons, let's get to the game last night, which was one of the best games of the playoffs and might have been the unofficial end of the playoffs. Go ahead.
Yeah, so Minnesota had bounced back in Game three and Okase responded with a win. Jada was cooking and looked pretty tired out there. Yeah, so the Thunder took took care of business. They're now of three to one. Like you said before, do they now seem inevitable to win the finals.
Or this series?
I guess at the very least no, No to both. They listen and this isn't like a take that the moment the Lakers got eliminated, I said, I think Oklahoma City's gonna win the championship. That I thought the Lakers were the only team that could beat them. Now maybe that was wrong, maybe nobody could beat them. But I have not been one of the people that has underrated at Oklahoma City or that has thought their youth was
going to be a death knell for them. And we now now as we sit here today, and this is a team that is seventy nine and nine or eighteen on the year, and a team that yesterday won a game. It was such a weird game yesterday because there are a couple buckets of stats that if I give you, you're gonna be like, oh, well, obviously team X one, And then a couple of buckets of stats that if I give you'd say, oh, obviously team why one. So the first one for the Thunder they're big three combined for
ninety five points. Shay forty, JDub thirty four, Jet twenty one. Their big three combine for ninety five points. Meanwhile, the three highest paid guys on Minnesota, well, I mean they don't really have one of them's go Bear. That's not fair because he's not a scorers. Minnesota's top two scorers, Aunt and Julius combine for twenty one. You hear that
and you say, okay, well that's a thunder route. Thing I can tell you on the flip side of that is what if going into the game, I were to tell you, hey, Okc's bench is gonna go I'm sorry, Minnesota's bench, pardon me, is going to go twelve of eighteen from three and combine for an incomprehensible sixty four points. You're gonna get sixty four points off the bench. You would say, okay, well that's going too clearly be maybe not only a Timberwolf win, but maybe a Timberwolf route instead.
Those two factors came together, the thunder Stars playing awesome, the Timberwolves role players playing awesome, and it was a classic game. I know that, like we've had so many great games these playoffs that a game that one team kind of leads throughout and then ends up winning doesn't feel like that should qualify as a classic. But the shot making and degree of difficulty from anyone and everyone involved in this game except for Minnesota's two best players
is really a was a sight to behold. And the reason that I said right off the top of the show and when Demonte asked me that this series is over and this season is over, and that's with respect to the Pacers and the Knicks who will get to later, is OKC has now been on the ropes and has now responded in such a way that I think this counts as that extra step some people thought they needed to take, Like, all right, you make the playoffs and
you get bounced in round two. Then you go on a deep run like the Celtics did to the finals and lose. Then you come back and win a championship, facing a Game seven against the best player in the world and blowing them out, and then responding the very next series by getting blown out like embarrassed. For the first time all year. They had only had one twenty point loss all season. It was to the Lakers. In
the regular season. They lose by forty it's their first playoff loss as a group together by more than twelve points. And then the very.
Agree they took their foot off the gas there in game three, though, right think that was like that was chalked up like if that was a situation high leverage and they needed that game, probably wouldn't have lost by that.
I'm just saying, totally agree.
Okay, no, one hundred percent agree. But my point is, not only did they lose that game, they get blown out ants feeling good. Because they get blown out, the Timberwolves don't have to play you know they're and because they're not as deep of a team in theory, they
don't have to play Aunt and Julius huge minutes. So they should be able to come into Game four fresh and feeling like, you know what we about to make this a series and all the Timberwolves others played out of their mind and the OKC Big three Flatley said, Nah, it doesn't matter. Shay, who will get more into later, was absolutely brilliant. Shae was brilliant, And I obviously have been vocal about the flopping and the Jabbroni stuff of hooking the arms and all that stuff you can hold
two thoughts in your head at the same time. One is the free throw merchant stuff is a fair criticism, and I find it to be an unappealing brand of basketball when he's doing that, while also believing even without any of that stuff, he's a superstar. And last night it was both. He was getting to the line. There hasn't been as much flopping about by him since Game one, and but in addition to getting to the line, he
was getting to the basket. His mid range was on point, as it's been all year, and he just played an outstanding A plus MVP level game. And then Jalen Williams added his twenty four or thirty four on twenty four shots, and every time it felt like Minnesota had a chance to grab some momentum, there was Chet Holmgrench, either hitting a three or with a putback dunk or a big block. He was awesome. And so.
I just you were nervous about Chet coming into this series.
Too, absolutely, And I thought that the Julius piece of this for the Timberwolves is pretty brutal, because he was so good in Round one against the Lakers and so good in Round two against the Warriors. He was so good he did something that I didn't know was possible, which is force honesty out of Draymond Green, like, no, I got my ass kicked in that matchup like that,
which he did. And then he was the only guy on Minnesota to really show up in Game one, so I was like, man, this he is just rewriting this playoff narrative. And then in game two, in game four, he's a combined three of eighteen from the field and eleven points total and just brutal. And so yeah, I thought that Julius versus Chet was going to strongly the Timberwolves, even though I picked Oklahoma City to win the series.
That's not what happened to her at all. And while I think we are, you know, I gave Danny a hard time. Let me find the tweet I sent to Danny Parkins. Either last night or this morning, I don't remember, but Danny tweeted, if I can get my phone to work, something about uh about the runway? That what the heck? This sucks? Twitter? Can I just say something Twitter sucks?
Now?
It doesn't. I can't even find my own tweets. Danny tweeted about the thunder having basically the next ten years here's what he wrote. I found it. I feel sorry for all the self professed NBA fans who say they hate SGA's game. The next ten years or so of hoops is gonna be pretty miserable for them. He's gonna be in a lot of big games. And so I
replied to him, giving SGA the next ten years feel strong. Listen, windows are never open as long as people think they are going to be in the moment, and every team that wins the championship, in the moment that they're winning the championship, it feels like, well, they're just gonna keep winning championships, I guess. And obviously right now it feels
that way with OKC. But it felt that way with Boston twelve months ago, and it felt that way with Denver twenty four months ago, And it felt that way with Milwaukee forty eight months ago, and it felt that way with the Lakers sixty months ago. The only team that he didn't really feel like they were about to reel off a bunch was the Warriors, because they had already reeled off their bunch, like that was the end mark rather than what it felt like was a beginning. Well, yeah,
Toronto obviously, but that was if Quiet stayed. No, but if Quiet stayed, maybe people would have thought they were going to keep winning. And so I'm not I'm not ready to talk down the road for OKAC because that ownership group as a doesn't have a tendency of paying the luxury tax. And I'm not sure. However, I know they have a bunch of picks, and they have a smart GM and all that stuff. What I am ready
to say is nobody's fucking beating them this year. And it was there was a window where in that game last night where it felt like, well, if Minnesota can, if they can win this game with Aunt and Julius playing poorly, can they then win one of the next two because Aunt and Julius go off, and then you're in a game seven, and then you roll the dice.
And even if they were to lose the game seven, then OKASE goes into the finals coming off back to back seven game series and maybe they're a little bruised, a little battered, a little worn down. Instead, Okac's going to end this tomorrow night, and they are not going to demonte let their foot off the gas twice in one series. They are critically going to be at home. Where what of the thunder done? Let me just look at home this postseason. They beat Memphis by fifty one.
They then beat Memphis by nineteen. They lost to Denver in was that the game one against Denver? Yeah, that was the Aaron Gordon game, the game winner, the game winner. So they lost to Denver. They then beat Denver by forty three. They then beat Denver by seven. They then beat Denver by thirty two. And now they have beaten Minnesota by twenty six and by fifteen, and they face
another one. So they have multiple victories at home by thirty plus and they have one loss and it was a buzzer beating dunk.
So it's been done. They could lose.
If Minnesota goes over there and Julius Randall and a cook and they turn it around, what do you think the chances of them pulling away, you know, bringing it seven, winning the series on Minnesota.
I think this is dead. I think this series ended last night. I think that there is I think that there is no no real way to convince yourself that the Timberwolves have a chance to win two in a row with one of them in Okac, much less three in a row, with two of them in okac Their moment was last night, their moment to make it so we can get to a game seven without ever having to win on the road and then see what the hell happens. And I just give Oklahoma City a ton
of credit. Man. They are obviously, and we've talked about it all year, and not historically great but contemporarily great defense. And they're young stars are all growing up in front
of us. And so the one other piece of caution that I would give to folks who are going to get out ahead of the dinas deep part of it is, Man, I don't know that any team's ever looked more poised to go on forget a ten year run, a fifteen year run in Oklahoma City in twenty twelve, when they had Durant, Russ, and Harden all well under twenty five years old. They might all been under twenty four years old actually, and they were making their first finals and
that's their only finals. Like and it's a you can say, oh, well, they traded Harden guys with this new CBA. I don't know how. I have no idea what teams are and aren't gonna stay the exact same year to year. What I do know is the Thunder winning the championship, and they will be rightful champions. It will not be an injury luck championship. It will not be ah look at who they faced and root to it championship. It won't
be any of that. It's going to be from day one of this season until the last day of the season, they were the best team. They had the guy who had the best season, and they were the deepest and damn near impossible to blow out, and they're going to finish the year. So they were I do this. I did this on the fly, and then I thought I screwed it up. They were sixty eight and fourteen. They have lost four times this postseason, so they are that's
twenty eighteen losses. They have won eleven times this postseason. Yes, I had it right. They're seventy nine and eighteen, and I'm gonna go ahead and guess that they finished the year eighty four and twenty. I think they lose two more times the rest of the way and they go into next year as big favorites, which again the defending champ keeps going into the years the big favorites We'll
see how they do on that end. And I'm not trying to put a period on this NBA season, but to me, this NBA season ended last night, and that's not a bad thing. That's not the it's well, it is.
It is what it is.
I know there's a lot of basketball to play, and I'm still and I'm super excited for the rest of the Eastern Conference Finals and the NBA Finals. To me, will be whomever. It is a real David versus Goliath situation, and you'll be excited to see, Hey, can something. Can Halliburton or Brunson have just a holy shit, what just happened moment? Can one of those guys like do a Dirk Novitsky twenty eleven levitate above the game? Wildly outmatched? But I don't think so.
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All right there, I know you have a bunch of follow ups here and then we can get to the next topic. But go ahead to many.
So Aunt looks super gas last night, and this is right around the time that he got gas last year.
Do you think that this is just who he is?
I don't. It is surprising to me that Aunt accepts passivity the way he has at times, and his comments after the game when he's like, listen, I don't think I struggled. I made the right play again and again. And I guess you can make the argument. Listens teammates wereritting shots. They scored one twenty six. He was still busting his ass on defense. But when you're up against the MVP Demanse and you undoubtedly feel like I'm better than him. But listen, he's not better than Shay. But
I guarantee you Ant believes he's better than Check. Yeah, like that, he has to, like, that's how he's wired. Seeing him take two shots in the first half was shocking. Legitimately, shocking in a half. His team was trailing the whole time. It's not as if, well, you know what I mean, everything's working great, whatever it is. And so he did he said he ran out of gas in the last
year in the conference finals. But that was so different because though I took that to be a physical and a mental thing, because beating the defending champ in round two is a bit of a that's a huge favorite, is a bit of a championship in and of itself. We are kind of seeing it happened to the Knicks. The Knicks beat Boston and then exhaled, and by the time they get their breath again, they're down two oh
to Indiana. Right, So I thought last year ant and Minnesota have a shocking three two comeback, and then Game seven comeback against Minnesota and then it's like, oh man, we got another that we're only halfway to the goal. Dallas, on the other hand, you know, was a pretty well oiled machine at that point, having just beaten OKC and they're down three to zero. They being Minnesota before they realize it's a fight. This year that wasn't at at all.
Minnesota didn't even seem to really face any adversity in round two or round one, and so I just think this is part of ant growing up. But for those of us that were like, hey, lead a team to the finals before you turn twenty five, that's a pretty the exclusive list. He has a chance to join it. That's now done that that you know, and so at twenty three, just get better and better each year. But he needs to find a way to be at his
best come late May, and that's yet to happen for him. Okay, Uh so there's go ahead and we can talk rules before he talks Shay and Ann.
Oh yeah, you think the team should be allowed to foul up three as much as they want.
It might have made the game. It was a little boring there at the end.
So okay, So I don't understand why teams or by the league listen free advice. There are three very simple rule changes that could be implemented in the offseason, and there is close to zero downside for any of them. Rule one is the one I proposed on TV yesterday, self proclaimed take of the year. It's an unimpeachably great take. The league could institute it immediately. There's no downside to
it whatsoever. And it would fix this immediately. Which is just like, every player on the court at any time can call time out, and if you go like this, the referee grant you a timeout. Any player on the court at any time can do the whoo the challenge signal, and the referee will grant that challenge. Okay, you have a challenge, you're challenging it. And within a week, demons, every player on every team would have been drilled by the coaches. Don't You're not allowed.
To do that.
I was about to say that the coaches would not ride with that one. It's like, it's just my choice if we're challenging it or not, you.
Know, correct, But it's also the coach's choice if we call time out or not. But the players can call it, and so it would no player would go rogue. Guys would learn very quickly, Oh shit, that's binding. I better not do that. And added bonus, let's just say there is a oh use joker as an example, a really
smart veteran player. It's late in the game. He knows they have challenges in timeouts left, and he knows that ball did not go off me, and he looks over at the bench and he's like, oh, man, the dude dropped the tablet. They're they're they're about to inbound the ball. We're not gonna get it in no challenge challenge. So
it would reward smart players and discipline teams. It would briefly penalize teams that have a bunch of dopes on them, and within a week you wouldn't immediately see an end two. Every time a ball goes out of bounds, players on both teams are doing the twirl in the air. That's rule change one. Rule change two. How do we get rid of hack a player? Because people can say, oh,
make your free throws. Oh, it's a fine strategy. And this is all a cousin of my tush push take, which is that all sounds finding good except for when you remember these are just polar It's just polar bears ice skating. It's just entertainment. There is no there, There is no oh, a moral part of this or greater good for the world. It's entertainment, and things that work
against the entertainment value should be eradicated when possible. There is nothing less entertaining than watching a basketball game grind to a halt because a team just wants to foul away from the ball a bad free throw shooter. So how do you fix that? Very simple, take a page out of the NFL's book. Outside of the last two minutes, because in the last two minutes you might need to foul for to come back. Outside of the last two minutes, you can decline the foul. Just be like, no, we decline,
We'll take its side out. That's all. Be like, oh, okay, oh it's we can shoot for those. No, we decline, thank you, we appreciate it. We'll to go side out of bounce. That's all you make that. There's no doubts. Again, you can't do that the whole game. But you already can't do haka inside the last two minutes. So we already have made specific rules based on timing. You can't do haka inside the last two minutes. So it's that simple. And so those are these. Then we get to the
fouling up three. Oh my goodness, what are we gonna do about this fouling up three? It's terrible for the league. Agreed, it's terrible for the viewer. Agreed. How do you fix it?
Guys?
It's the simplest fucking thing ever. If you commit a foul with the shot clock turned off, meaning the final twenty four seconds outside of the three point line, it's a three shot foul, whether the guy is shooting or not. Yeah, it's that simple. And then that's done. It's guys, it is It is intuitive simple rule changes. Rule one is
just a fun one to penalize the whiners. The twirl is binding, and you're gonna your team's gonna be out of challenges within ninety seconds, your coach gonna be super pissed, and you might then early in the season when you're not used to it, also rack up technical fouls because you've done the twirls so many times and your team is out of timeouts, and that's now a technical fine. That'll fix itself.
Rule two.
In the instance of hacker Mitch Robinson coming into play the Knicks or any team subject to the hacka thing can say, we would prefer to have the ball side out of bounds rather than get free throws. That's all the foul counts, it goes all of it, but we would prefer to have the ball side out of bounds if we can decline the free throws. If you hack, if you foul us in outside of the last two minutes and the last one to end the scourge of
fouling up three. If the shot clock is turned off and you commit a foul outside of the three point line, it is not a two shot foul. It is a three shot foul. That's all very simple.
The first one I go on board with.
But the other, yeah, the take of the year. You like when guys do.
This, I don't like it. I just like, I understand how much they're going to be doing that. And I know you're saying, I know you're saying, have some discipline, don't do it.
I don't think that.
I don't think it's a it's as annoying as you think it is when they will make it.
Just like I would like to. It's it's it's that it's annoying, but it's also that it is it's a too much boy who cried wolf. It's they know that. It's almost like they feel like they have to. Like yesterday, you saw it on Alexander. I mean he slaps him on the never a Doubt tattoo and he's like, no, yeah, I mean so, uh, But do you like my how to get rid of foul?
I'm totally on board with those other two ones. The three three free throws outside of the three point line makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, and and again it's the you can't just say any foul gets you three free throws because you don't want all of a sudden, you know, teams down too and driving to the basket and then they you know they, uh, you don't want that, but it is it's an easy fix.
You know what.
You know now that we have a friend of the show, I know she's retired, but friend of the show Michelle Roberts, former president of the NBA Player Association, who I see almost every day because she lives on our block and I hang out out side. Now that the weather's nice, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask.
Her to pitch it, Adam or something.
Yeah, something, or let me pitch it. I'm over. Like I would have thought I would wanted to pitch get me an NBA awards vote, But that ship has sailed. I'm never getting an awards vote.
Yeah.
I mean, if you create a rule for the NBA.
Rule, what a legacy, What a legacy this would be if people are like in thirty years people, if you see an amazing finish to a game. We see an amazing finish of the game. People are like, you know, we used to not get those game tying threes because guys would foul. Really, Papa, what changed that? Well is this guy named Nick Wright, he did a podcast with his son explained it. Yeah, yeah, I think that'd be exciting. All right, let's talk more Shane.
Go ahead.
Uh so, yeah, you've you've been pretty vocal on SGA's foul baiting. He saw how worked out the other day when he got to the line four times. And also Ant has this problem with fatigue late in the late in the year. Who do you think who do you think's problem is bigger? As far as trying to be the face of the league type of guy.
Well, listen, Shay's thing isn't a flaw. It's just irritating. Yeah, and it's listen it. People can debate about the skill it takes and the I'm not gonna Shay the player, I'm just talking about the manipulating the reps it is. And I was I'll be honest, I was shocked by the number of people who pushed back on some of the Shay stuff like it was and there was a lot of you say this and you're a fan of and then they either said Luca Lebron or Mahomes. So let me address each of those if I may. Luca
does not flop. Luca complaints. There is a distinction. Luca finishes through contact. Luca is not flailing. Luca is whining at all times. Now you can find that irritating, and I totally understand that. I find it somewhat irritating.
But he is here with SGA.
He also doesn't really complain to the refs, I think because he gets froding advice to his house for Thanksgiving.
But but no, I mean, Luca is just yelling at the refs the entire game. When he gets a call, he's angry he didn't get it faster when he doesn't get a call. So that that is that, you know, that to me, is uh a crazy comp to be on. Like they're just very Now you can say that's more irritating, you hate that more, that's fine, like that's a matter of preference. But Luca is never, never strong but close to never trying to manipulate the officials. He's just trying
to mother f the officials. So that's the first one. Lebron gets less calls per drive to the basket, and almost any player in modern NBA history, certainly older Lebron and Lebron I know that over the course of a twenty two year career. Whenever you see these Lebron flopping compilations, what you will see almost all the videos have in common is he got hit. People just think he is not supposed to be as hurt as he appears to be. So what Lebron will do is sell how hurt he
is or the violence or velocity of the impact. But he is. Lebron is not like driving to the basket and then just falling or hooking your arm to try to get the call. Again, you can say I hate that one more, but those are different. Then there's Mahomes, which again the football basketball comps I never like at all,
but we can get into that if you'd like. Of all the quarterbacks in the league, the idea that there is any evidence whatsoever that Patrick Mahomes is more protected or does more flopping when Josh Allen exists is just one of the wildest things that I've ever heard anyone put voice to. And while here would be my response to the Mahomes SGA thing, because the Mahomes thing really
hit a fevered pitch in the Texans playoff game. If Mahomes did what he did in the Texans playoff game every single game all year long, then you would have the SGA comp for it. It was jarring because it was so obvious what on two of those plays. Again again, it was two total plays he was doing. But that was one game in the guy's career versus SGA. It's made up an art form out of it. So the now to answer your question, though, demonte uh And is not going to be eligible for Face of the You
can't be eligible. You're not gonna be Face the League until you're winning MVPs and or championships. And he's done neither. His game theoretically and personality is more attractive to fans and Face the League stuff, but he's got to be playing big games late late late in years SGA. I I think the I think the foul stuff is a wave that has crested. I think he and the refs reacted to the criticism of Game one and he stopped getting quite. He said, listen, he's look goting to line
a ton but most of those are warranted. He's since fall over. Correct. It's just the it. It's really just two things we're talking about. One is falling over on purpose. Yeah, that's wait right, And the other one is the hook the like that, which is just a first cousin of
Durant's ripped through. Like Durant got so good at the ri you'd put your hand down and Durant would rip through it and go up that they changed the rule to where that's a non shooting foul, hardened than evolved it to you put your arm there, I will then hook you and then go up and it will be a shooting foul. And Shade does that brilliantly. So maybe that is a rule tweak that I can't figure out. Again, I gave you three great rule changes and make the
NBA twice as good. I can't give you four. But uh, but the it's really just the falling over. Like the falling over is just so unbecoming and nobody likes it. I know you have one follow up.
Here to Yeah, so you're you're heavily against his fallibating and you say it's been all year, but he is your MVP guy.
Yeah, so I think again, So I think that maybe surprises people. They're like that I said, he was clearly the MVP. He was clearly the MVP. He was the scoring champ, good, not great, but good defensively, unbelievable offensively for a sixty eight win team.
He was.
Listen, I hate the toush push. I don't come on here and be like that plays no good. It's actually ineffective. Like I might not like some of the stylistically, some of the way Shaye plays, but he was the MVP of the league this year, and I would have voted for him for it, like the it is. It is odd to me that people are surprised that I can hold both those thoughts in my head at the same time. All Right, the NBA Finals almost here, and every play
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co slash b ball. All right, demonse, let's go to the Eastern Conference.
All right, So we know that New York, I mean, Indy stole the first two in New York and then Game three, New York bounce back coming back from that twenty point win or twenty point deficit.
It seems like something to do often. Now, will one team pull away? Is anybody gonna no? Listen?
I think this is gonna be a seven game series. But in order for that to happen, the Knicks need to win tonight, and I think they are gonna win tonight. Brew and I disagreed on this yesterday, but I I saw there there were some things that happen in Game three of that series that to me were at least somewhat worrisome for the Pacers, which is it felt like
Carlisle was forced to start reaching a bit. Now you might say shit, Thibodeau definitely was with Delon Right Landry Shammitt playing minutes got it And this was the point I was trying to make on TV that I did a poor job of. But I'll try again here. The Knicks are used to playing seven guys and getting contributions from seven guys, so them all of a sudden potentially getting contributions from Guy eight and Shamit or Guy nine
and Delon Wright is almost just like a bonus. The Pacers, on the other hand, are reliant on had been reliant on Ben Matherin being good for them. I mean, this guy was sixteen a game each of the last three years, sixteen a game this year, and Carlisle seems to soured on him in this series. Obi Toppin, who has been really valuable to them in the since he's come over there as like an energy guy and still getting you ten to eleven points, he has been somewhat ineffective this series.
That then leads to them all of a sudden being like Tony Bradley, are you gonna give us some real minutes, Ben Shephard, are you gonna give us some real minutes? And it feels a little more grasping. You then add to the fact that the Knicks were able to execute that comeback to Monday with Jalen Brunton playing really poorly until the final two minutes of that game, and Karl Anthony Towns obviously was unbelievable in the fourth quarter. He
had four points going into the fourth quarter. So for all those reasons, I just think the Knicks go into tonight's game far better position. And I think that this series was you can't be tied through three games, but if you could be, this one would be like the Knicks in historic fashion Blue Game one, the Pacers in much more gradual fashion Blue Game three, Game two. What was that a one point? Was it a one point or three point game? With fifteen seconds left? Like that?
I'm gonna pull it up because I said that. That's another thing I said on TV. YESA I was like, did I get that wrong too? No, I'm right. It's it's one ten, one oh nine with fifteen seconds left and the Knicks damn near steal the ball at mid court and just don't get it, and you know, the Pacers end up Jalen misses the three at the end and the Pacers win. So this is a dead even series that I think, And this is one more thing
that then I'll get your take on it, Demonte. I think that as devastating as Game one was for the Knicks, losing it in that fashion, game three is a different type of devastating for the Pacers because they are up ten going into the fourth quarter to go to the finals. Because you go up three to zero, the series is over. The Pacers had this series one if they play one solid quarter of basketball, and they couldn't. So I wonder
what type of impact that has on them emotionally. Similar to what we saw from the Knicks early in Game two when they didn't seem to be there emotionally after blowing Game one the way they did. I know you wanted to say something.
Go ahead, yeah, I got I got the Pacers at six here.
I don't think there's any way they can feel like deflated or negatively. I know they might have had the game in the reach and got to close out there, but they just took two in New York. I think they're gonna win today, and and I just like the Pacers more than the Knicks.
It's no bad blood.
Obviously, it'd be better for the Knicks to win the finals. Are go farther because it'd make more sense. The Celtics got knocked out, But the Pacers have a more consistent team.
I like the Pacers more than the Knicks.
And uh, well, so listen the Pacers. What is true about the Pacers this playoffs is they are zero to three in game threes and ten and oher in every other game. So the argument for them is they've gone up too oh in every series and then lost you know, game threes in every series. That the Knicks argument is for tonight. They have been much better on the road
than at home this postseason. They are They were three and oh on the road against Detroit, they were two and one on the road against both and now one and oh against Indiana. So they are six and one on the road are the Knicks this postseason? And then one and two Sorry I'm doing this on the fly, one in two, two and one, So three and three, three and five at home, six and one on the road, three and five at home, which is really weird, but it is what it is.
I also, I I this is gonna sound funny because of what game two was or Game one was.
Pardon me, but I like how the Knicks have held Halliburton in check since game one. Game one, Halliburton was unbelievable and executed, you know, one of the greatest comebacks in playoff history. Game two he had I think two points at halftime and finished with fourteen. Game three he had twenty and seven assists. Like, I think they have to feel decent about what they've been able to do
against Halliburton. And so now this is maybe just priors because I thought going into the series the Knicks were better, and I thought that they were gonna win this series in seven games, and I still think that. I just don't know. Is that what you said.
Seven games before? I remember the way you were talking about the Knicks. Go. It's not like you thought they were gonna whirl through the Pacers.
Oh I didn't. Maybe I didn't give a games pace.
Ye I don't think you gave any four HS games yea seven the just did sond very convinced that the Knicks We're gonna.
Yeah, I mean I I once they beat the Celtics, I just kind of felt like this was the nixt moment and if they can just you know, execute a couple plays. At the end of Game one, we're feeling very differently, but they listen. That's the playoffs, that's how it works. I think they win tonight. If they lose tonight, I think they're cooked. But I think they win tonight. Uh, pardon me, all right, let's go to Halliburton.
At the very beginning of the playoffs. You know, the poll came out of Halliburton say he was the most overrated player.
In the NBA.
And now fans, I think fans and the folks are starting to swing very far in the other direction.
What do you think of proper rating for Tyres? Haliburton is right now.
Listen. Club Superstar opens tomorrow on the TV show Back to Back Conference Final. Clearly the best player on the team, clearly, incredibly Clutch is kind of an old school pass first point guard. I he's clearly Demonse one of the fifteen best players in the league, and he has an argument that he's in that top twelve. I think that's I think that like, who are the guys in the league who are there is not even an argument better than him. So let me the let me maybe pull up a
first draft of Club Superstar. So, no, you cannot argue that Haliburton's better than this player. How long is the list? Joker agreed, yeah, Jannis agreed, Shay agreed, Uh huh healthy, Tatum agreed. Yeah, I mean the Achilles is weird, but we're gonna keep Tatum where he is. Luca agreed, we're at five. I think listen, I there are five more players better than him. But as far as like it's under you, there is no argument. Okay, now, guys who you could make the argument he's better than but I
don't agree with it. Steph Lebron, hold on, when I did that whole thing? Did I say? Shay said was like the fourth Movement got leave Shaye out, Steph Lebron, Jalen Brunson.
Yeah, I was thinking Brunson like, but I was figured like I was just thinking of my head.
That's pretty debatable, but right, that is right.
But I think Brunton's better than him, but it's clearly debatable. And yeah, you're not sure.
I'd say, I mean, yeah, I think better than me.
Yeah, but it's it's close, right, And then you get to I think two guys that are tough in how you're gonna rank them, Anthony Davis and Kevin Durant no embiid and bid. Yeah, I mean it's just yeah, but Durant and Anthony Davis are I like, they both have the Halliburton's way more available in those guys. They it feels like those guys have higher ceilings. But man, oh Man, Halliburton has more playoff moments this postseason than either one
of those guys in the last half decade. So like there's and then there's I think he's Do you think he's better than Donovan Mitchell.
I was thinking about Donovan Mitchell. Yes, actually I do. Yeah, I do too.
I think for I think when it comes to winning, like.
I think he's better exactly.
So I guess my answer is the absolute highest you could have him is sixth I think that would be irrational. I think I have him eleventh, and I think the lowest you could have him is fourteenth. So I know that's that sounds like a bit of a cop out, but like I think that is he's better than Devin Booker. My answer is yes, yeah.
I mean it's just like skill set exactly. I was just thinking, like, haller Burton's just more riable player than Donovan Mitchell or Devin.
Wimby's a tough one, but Wimby's so still something of an unknown, you know. Wimby's almost as much of an ideas he is a basketball player at this point. All right, people, you go ahead and ask me about.
Mister Halliburton is allowed back into the stadium for the Pacers home games, but he'll be in the booth for game four.
Is there any.
I know that means he's on the call?
Is there is there any part of you that I would like to see him on courtside?
All right, I I gotta tell you guys something. I have a very what's going to be an unpopular opinion on this.
Uh.
I'm old enough to remember how every single one of us felt the day after he came on the court, mocked the honest, waved that flag in his face, and then the next day did a TV interview where he had no remorse whatsoever and claimed he wasn't even looking at you, honest. And so not only do I not want him court side, I think he should still not be allowed to go to the games. Okay, so I'm the only person I think who feels like I felt a whole two and a half weeks ago when we
all said he needs to be banned. Every single person was like, you've gotta ban him, And then Halliburton hits a game winner, and Barkley's like, free John Halliburton, and now everyone's like, oh, yeah, in fact, sit him next to Shalloman, like there is I have no reason to believe that. I don't think this was too harsh of a penalty.
I don't was it just be until the end of this season. Was that the initial.
Yeah, yes? And then they and maybe they I thought maybe the rational was the Pacers are going to lose to the Cavs, so it's you know, it's all one round and now they won. I would be open to if they make the finals letting him back, but I don't like it. I I thought, what he again? We are people, people have such short memories. We were all discussing how impressive it was that Yiannis didn't punch that guy in the face, and we were all talking about
what an impossible position he put Yannis in. Yeah, right, And now eight games later we're.
Like, ah, I think what you do it's probably just you know, people, people's emotions and like seeing Halibird and I are cooking, he's making a run, his dad's not able to go to the games.
I also think people are starting to like Halivert more.
I certainly liked Tyree's Haliburton, not more than I liked him two months ago.
Sure, that's fine. I like his dad less. And I don't I the there, I don't know.
I mean And when you when you said that he said that he wasn't looking at honest, and you when he said he was looking through him, did you think he was being uh disingenuous? There are you saying? Do you actually think that he wasn't trying to look at you honest? Or I think that when he said he was looking through.
Him, he was taunting honest. He tried to claim he was not taunting.
Honest, okay, because you made it seem like he kind of lied about it.
I thought when he said I was looking through him, like he was saying like, yeah, I was looking at him, like I was looking right through him type of deal.
No, no, no, no, that that interview. Maybe I'm wrong. I see it was him saying, oh, I didn't even realize he was there. I was just in the moment and that I was just I just picked that spot randomly, and he happened to be there, and I didn't pick up on it because I was looking through him. I was looking at the crowd, and I'm like, that's not a guy that feels bad.
Okay, Yeah, and so maybe I'm.
Miss interpreting it, but I didn't. I didn't like the game. I didn't love it. All right, Let's do one quick NFL thing and then get to some listener questions.
Sakon Barkley told Red Blanket Ship and Cooper Degene on their podcast that the.
Man, did you hold on? Did you know this demand before we even get to it? I bad news for us. We're now competing with a Red Blanken Hip, Cooper de Jene project. That's that's that's a nice tand my clear my, I'm.
Gonna have to catch up on the archives there all right, man, oh man, I bet that's an insightful show. I'm excited to listen.
Okay. Go ahead.
Told him that that that twenty twenty four Eagles team the top five team in NFL history.
You're obviously a NFL historian, How true?
Is that not only is it not true, it's not even. You can't even you can't even make a credible argument for like and by the way, Sakuon said they were a top five team of all time and then listed five other teams in his top five, which then would make them, I guess, the top six team of all time. But one of the teams he listed was the two thousand Ravens, which is not a top twenty team of
all time. Like, none of this makes sense, but the seventy two Dolphins that went undefeated had the number one offense and the number one defense and beat teams by an average of fifteen points a game. That's a top five team of all time. The eighty four Niners that went fifteen to one annihilated their postseason opponents start to finish,
had a top two offense, top two defense. The eighty five Bears that everyone talks about the greatest defense of all time, which it had, but it also had the number two offense in the sport that year and beat their playoff opponents Demonse ninety one to ten is a top five team of all time.
Bears quarterback ever throw up for more than four thousand yards.
I know because they had defense.
I guess it was amazing.
But okay, the defense was amazing. They had an amazing running game. They scored the second most points of any team in the league that year. The the who are the other teams? I'm leaving out an obvious one nine to two Cowboys pretty good, seventy eight Steelers, which had I think eleven Hall of Famers, They're pretty good. The
seven Patriots didn't win the Super Bowl. The the greatest team I've ever seen, the twenty sixteen Patriots that went fourteen and two and ran had a top two offense and defense. They were pretty good. The ninety eight Broncos en route to a back to back championship. Like listen, the Eagles had the number eight offense, number two defense, and were in one score playoff games in rounds one in rounds two? Now, did the Eagles have a top five Super Bowl performance
because of what they did and who they did it to? Sure, I'll listen to that. You want to say, did they have a top five all time final two games by just dismantling the Commanders and the dismantling the Chiefs. Sure I'll listen to that. But top five? Yeah, but they still scored fifty five, you know what I mean, or whatever they scored like the sure. But I just people, again, everyone just leave the list to me. Your guys lists suck.
And again I just and he wouldn't even it was so his top Here were his top five teams of all time for the record, seventy two Dolphins because they're undefeated. Good job, eighty five Bears, good job, the two thousand Ravens,
who it's not even a tenable opinion. And then he was like one of the Brady teams and one of the Mahomes teams, like that's not even like a thing, and so I just like whatever, Uh, all right, let's remember to everyone like rate, subscribe, review if you have time to, you know, when you're not listening to the Read Blank and Hip Cooper Degene podcast, if you want to check out What's right with Nick? Right, we'd appreciate it. You think I'm being rude there, Demansey.
Hey man on the podcast, It's gonna be very insightful, and you know, I like.
I'm gonna go do a three cone drill after this after our pod. All right, what are some listener questions?
Uh?
Cale suggests another rule change.
What do you think about there being a timer on replay reviews if the reps can't clearly overturn the call in one minute call stands.
That's how it was when they brought it to the NFL initially, and that's of course how it should be. There was a real timer, and the logic was within thirty or forty five or sixty seconds, I don't remember. If we can't figure it out within this timeframe, then whatever we then it's not clear and obvious. The whole idea was. The idea behind replay was to fix egregious mistakes, not to parse hundredths of a second, you know, through
zapruder film. That's not what it was there for. Let's go on to the next one.
Jam as has there ever been a team that is the youngest and best team in the NBA like this?
Okay, see team well, I mean OKC in twenty twelve had a shot and people can be like, oh, they weren't the best team. They were the favorites over Lebron's heat in the finals. They were the favorites and they won Game one, so you know that was they had a real argument for it. They just you know, Lebron and d Wade just weren't having it all right.
Next, Uh, Curtis, if you manage the MAVs, would you rather have Luca and Brunson or Flag A D and Kyrie?
Luca and Brunson. I mean, listen, Kyrie is coming is dealing with a catastrophic kne injury. Ad is thirty two and has real injury questions. And I like the idea of Cooper Flag But those other guys are two top eight players in the league. Uh, so that's not even a question to me, do Luca?
I mean, I mean they did get traded away from each other's teams for a reason.
Do those guys even work together like that? And considering their play style?
No, I don't think so, but I do. I just think you could, you know, figure out a way to make it work, figure out a way or flip one for a real bounty, not what they flipped Luca for, you know all that stuff.
Right all right?
Next, Trey ass, what events are you playing in World Series of Poker this year?
Great question? So I actually, uh, it's not at all what you guys expect. So I and now some hopefully I won't play in all of these because the final table for some overlaps with the other events. But theoretically I am playing in the ten thousand dollars Dealer's Choice Championship, which is an demons. It's an unbelieve. There are twenty two different games and every seven hands, a different person at the table gets to pick which game they're playing
for those seven hands. So like, so there's twenty two different variations, okay, from seven card stud to Badoogie badou se five card draw which is like the you know old school game regular nolamit hold them big. Oh, and so you have to be able to play and know the rules and be sophisticated at all the games. So that is that's the tournament I want to play, and that's the tournament. So that so that's one. I'm also
going to play the fifteen hundred dollars Badugie. A lot of this just has to deal with the tournaments that are being played while I'm out there. I might play what will be the most bananas tournament of the series and the first time they've ever held it, the fifteen hundred pot limit Omaha Double Board Bomb Pot Tournament, which is just going to be billful and then I'm probably also going to play in the ten thousand dollars seven
Card stud Championship. So I'm not playing any traditional no limit hold'ems, and I'm playing all these different mixed games and i couldn't be more excited. So those are the ones that those are the ones I'm playing in. All right, go to Eric's question before we.
Get out of the Drake May question here today, expectations for Drake May this year feels like he used to be higher on him, but have had.
A count counter.
Turbulence count counterbalance counter oh oh, counter turbulence is not a word.
Counterbalance, Wild's optimism.
Sorry, I listen. I like I like Drake May coming out of school because he's very young and very big and very strong. And that's how I like my top three picks.
I want him.
I don't want him to have sixty starts under their belt. I want him to be young and six four and big and all that stuff. And I thought he was fine last year. What the wild thing is that he's maddening, and it is that he has just completely changed what all of his rules ever were for grading quarterbacks were for this guy, and he is he is acting as if that he sees more in Drake May than he saw in mac Jones, which he should because Drake Mays
objectively better than mac Jones. But he loved mac Jones. So to answer your question, yeah, I just got a I I Wild. It's so yeah. Wild is just so punch drunk on the fact that he has a quarterback that can throw, you know, could throw a ten yard out route through a couple plies of bounty, that he doesn't know what to do with himself. So that's it, all right, Everybody like rate subscribe review if you could. It actually really does help us out a lot. Great job,
Demon's great job, Blue Dog, great job. Friends of the Volume and DraftKings. And if the game tonight is insane, maybe we'll do a show tomorrow, but the plan is to probably just do a show on Thursday, and my guess is on Thursday we will be discussing the Knicks having tied the series two games apiece, and the Thunder advancing to the second finals in team history. See you guys, then, what's right