Welcome in What's Right with Nick Wright Episode three thirty five, As we have one half of the NBA Final set. We did Tuesday's show as if that half of the Finals was already set after Oklahoma City escaped in Game four against Minnesota because we thought Game five might go the exact way it did. We will get to that. We will also get to Demanse. I mean, I don't want to step on something. You're going to be asking me in a moment, but Rick Richard Jefferson, Oh, Demonse's
not locked in right now. We have technical difficulties. If you can hear me, great, If not, I'll just talk to myself. The Richard Jefferson, I mean American hero getting the what my take of the year name dropped during a Conference finals broadcast. More on that in a moment. First we'll get to what missed the cut? Demanse. Back in it, I thought Demons was just uninterested in what I was saying. Turns out he was. Look he was texting furiously trying to get his audio working. But what
missed the cut? Today College Football twenty six cover has been revealed. The Bears want Caleb to fix his body language. That's a fair critique and somebody want a cheese rolling contest. This is put that in the bucket of stories. The producers wish I was interested in speaking. By the way, he started to do this on the cheese rolling stuff, I understand people are into it. I'm not into it. I understand other people are into it. I should have
asked you guys this beforehand. Let me try this on my own, on your guys in and on for our people watching live on YouTube. And by the way, like great, subscribe review there we go. For some reason, my return was all fuzzy, but now it looks fine to me. Yeah, subscribe on YouTube. I don't know. Are we up to two hundred and ten thousand yet? We gotta be close. I'm gonna I'm gonna check right now, we're doing it. Subscribe on iTunes Spotify two hundred and seven thousand and change,
So that's good. I don't know when two fifty can be expected. We'd love to get there by I don't know.
Thanksgivings, Oh, Thanksgiving.
I was gonna say Thanksgiving. Yeah, No, maybe you're right. I'm just shooting. I'm just giving a you know, a request out there. But let's get to an utterly and thoroughly dominant game, which is, by the way, what the thunder have been doing at home this entire postseason, which was another thing we discussed on Tuesday. Demons go ahead.
Yeah, I just want to apologize for being childish and asking if Minnesota could have potentially came back playing around with that question.
Is obvious that that was not possible.
Alsten, Oklahoma City dominated Minnesota last night. The defense was humming. All of OKC stars were looking good. I want to talk about the probability of this being a dynasty. You think they should hold the brakes on it or is ODC gutting for here? Historically?
Well, listen, they are four wins away Demons from one of the single greatest seasons in NBA history. Like that part is that has to be There's two real metrics for two hard metrics for how good your seat, like how good your season was, and then some softer metrics. But the first one is how many games did you win? What was your record? And they have now become the fourth team ever to enter the finals with eighty victories.
And now when we go long to long term history, you got to recognize that the playoffs have expanded a bit and changed but a shorthand. You know, the ninety six Bulls who won seventy two regular season games did it. The ninety seven Bulls who won sixty nine regular season games did it. And the seventy three win Warriors who won seventy three regular season games but did not win the championship. They all did it. They all got to eighty wins before the start of the NBA Finals. So
check off that box. As far as you know, that's really a regular season stat. It means how many regular season wins did you get, But we already knew sixty eight wins. The list of teams to win more than sixty eight games in a single season are those two seventy the seventy two win Balls, the sixty nine win Balls that I mentioned, the seventy three win war and then one other team, the sixty nine Lakers that they
went on to win the championship. That's every team that won more regular season games than these thunder The teams to win sixty eight games are also at least well, one of them is an all time team. The other one came up short to the Knicks in the conference finals. You have the eighty three Sixers, who I'm sorry, not the eighty three sixers, the sixty seven sixers, the eighty
three sixers that were. I put them there because I think they're one of the greatest teams ever, the faux Fox Fox Sixers, but that was not they were not the dominant regular season team. These teams were. And then the seventy three Celtics, which came up short, and then this thunder team. If we lower the threshold to sixty seven wins, then it gets a little fuzzier because you have some great teams and some not so great teams.
Sixty seven wins, the eighty six Celtics in the short on the short list of greatest team of all time, Like, that's pretty undeniable that you've got to at least include them when you are discussing who are the greatest teams of all time? The eighty six Celtics have to be on that list. The ninety two Bowls, who I actually think might be maybe the best of the Bulls teams that finished off the first three peat. There's at least
an argument there. The two thousand Lakers, the first championship with Shaq and Kobe, the twenty fifteen Warriors, which is the first championship with Steph, the twenty seventeen Warriors, the first championship with Stephan Durant, and then a couple teams. One that gets kind of is a punchline, and the other is an all time great team that ran up against another all time great team. The punchline is the seven MAVs who lost in round one after winning sixty
seven games. For that we believe Warriors, and the other one is the twenty sixteen Spurs who just happened to be it. I mean that team was unbelievable. They got clipped in round two by the twenty sixteen Thunder who then ran into the twenty sixteen Warriors, who then ran into Pekee Lebron James. But so to do this quickly, teams to win sixty seven plus you have first year Steph won a title, first year Stephan kd won a title together, you have the first year Shaq and Kobe
won a title. You have Jordan's Bulls the third time they won a title, and the best Celtics team of all time, the eighty six Celtics. Those are the sixty seven win teams plus the two with that I just
mentioned that didn't win the title. The sixty eight win teams are this year's Thunder, and then you add to it the seventy three Celtics not you know, at a disappointing playoffs, and then sixty seven six Ers with Wilt won the title, and then sixty nine win teams Jordan's Bowls the fifth championship, the Laker team that had the thirty three game winning streak in seventy two, the ninety six Bulls won seventy two, and then the Warriors the
seventy three win Warriors. So that's the company they keep. So there's one kind of hard piece of data, how many games did you win? The other one is were you blowing people out? And teams that finished the year with a ten plus point differential. It is last year's Celtics, and then the eight Celtics, Kareem's Bucks in seventy one, the Durant first year Durant Warriors, that other Warriors team the first year they won the title, the Bowls a
couple times, and the Lakers in seventy two. The Thunder beaten teams this year by almost thirteen points per game, so they check both of the hard metric boxes. You then add the kind of softer factors. How good was the league in that time? I think the league's as talented as it's ever been. What was their path to the finals and to a championship? That one probably cuts against them a bit. They are not going through legendary opponents en route, and they won't face a legendary opponent
in the finals. They did, however, go through a legendary player in Joker, and that was a classic seven game series. Another kind of soft factor. Did they have an all time player on their team all time? I don't know yet, but the guy who had the best season this year and Shae, Yeah they did. I mean, Shay was unbelievable in the regular season, has been almost as good in the playoffs.
Would not have would not have an all time player make it a better feat.
It might make it more impressive, but it's hard to argue. When you're talking about the best single seasons in NBA history. It's and I left out some of the sixty six win teams, and some of the best teams ever were sixty six win teams. Lebron's Heat that had the twenty seven game winning streak I mentioned earlier the eight Celtics, which were awesome. Those were the margin of victories. I mentioned Kareem's bucks that you know there are some a
couple Lakers teams, one with Magic, one with Kobe. Oh those were sixty five, not sixty six, but it would make it more impressive. Maybe demands. But when we're talking about who the greatest teams of all time are, and if we're trying to do the hypothetical if they were to match up against each other, right right, you want to be able to say our guy can at least
kind of look eye to eye with your guy. And if your guy is peak Wilt Chamberlain or peak Michael Jordan, or peak Larry Bird, and my guy is Chauncey Billers and again, and I'm just picking a team that won the title, even though they're not in the all time team discussion. That's gonna be a harder argument to make. Shay is making an argument that he's building an all time resume. It's a weird one because of how he started and it was a slow progression, but he's just
gotten better and better and better every single year. So I am okay with saying this is an all time single season. I am not okay with saying this is an all time team because what the other all time teams had was stacked accomplishments, you know, multiple finals, appearances, multiple championships, and the teams kind of bleed together. But single season it's that. But that thing gets us to
the point you were making. And I understand Pacer fans maybe, or Nick fans even, or like, my god, you're acting like they won the championship yesterday, And to that I would say, no, I'm not. I actually acted like they won the championship on Monday night, because to me, they did that was the end of the competitive portion of this year's NBA season. And that's not to say the Pacers are the Knicks can't beat them in a game.
But when a team has home court and that team beats people in the playoffs at home by fifty one, nineteen, forty three, seven, thirty two, twenty six, fifteen, and thirty with one loss coming on a buzzer beater, they're gonna win the championship when they also are a team that can if it were to happen. Demon's deal with injury better than any other team, and now they can't deal with an injury to Shay, But nobody can lose their best player. They could, but they they could lose j
Dub or Chet and still win the championship. No much less lose what I mean, go ahead?
Oh no, yeah, I don't know. I feel like Chet is such a presence. Chet losing Check probably put them.
Oh, I think it would change them, but I wouldn't. Like I wouldn't write them off any of these other teams if they lost one of their three best guys, you would basically just write them off. You couldn't do it with this team because of how deep they are. So I have and I'm not trying to give myself credit here, I am trying to reminded the audience. I guess I was not one of the loud Thunder skeptics. Now. I didn't pick them to win the championship because I
thought the Lakers could beat them. After I saw the Lakers beat them in a game the Thunder wanted, and then the Lakers play them to a tie until Luca got kicked out, and I was like, Okay, I think the Lakers are the one team that can give them real problems. Maybe Boston. But I thought the Thunder were a legitimate championship caliber team all year, and the moment the Lakers went out, I said, I think they're going
to win the title. With all that said, I think the dynasty talk is so silly, and I understand folks argument is they are set up so well. And I will just make the point that I made on Tuesday again. We think think every team almost is set up so well when they're in the midst of winning, and to which some people will reply, yeah, but those teams weren't as young. That's true that the Bucks in twenty twenty one, or the Nuggets in twenty twenty three, or even the
Celtics last year weren't as young. However, with the Bucks and the Nuggets, we did feel like their best player was in already in once they won the title, the historically great conversation, and Shay isn't quite in that yet. Like we thought, yes, this Thunder team's younger, but we thought that Giannis and Joker in that moment were a
tick above where Shay is in this moment. And the other argument people are going to make is yes, but the nugget it's for the Thunder, it's all that draft capital that they have, and that is true, but it's also a little misleading. So the Thunder's draft capital is more quantity than quality. So I'm going to go through
it just too. And this is courtesy of real GM to remind people what they have, because what you're going to see is it's a ton of stuff, and it's a ton of stuff that theoretically they could use in trades. But it's not like, oh man, that could be the third pick of the draft. Okay, so this year they have the fifteenth pick for Miami and the twenty fourth pick from the Clippers. At least I think fact check me in the because I don't have this year's pulled up.
Fact check me in the doc if I'm wrong about this year. But they the then next year, what they have They have Houston's pick next season protected one through four, so Houston. We think Houston's going to be quite good next year, So a late pick next year, and then they have I want to make sure I get this right,
the Clippers pick next year. So I think the Clippers showed us this year that they are going to be at least a credible team, and so are those are fine picks, but none of those appear or feel like those are going to be uh, you know, lottery top ten picks, right, And then they have Phillies pick next year potentially, and again they only get two of these, so these are the best ones they could get Phillies pick if it falls outside of the top four and
Utah's pick if it falls outside of the top eight. The moral of the story is next year they are gonna have a bunch of extra picks, and they all look like they are not going to be lottery picks because Utah is the only team on that list that is likely going to be in the lottery, and Utah likely is going to be able to keep their pick because it'll be in the top eight. In twenty twenty seven, they again they get the Clippers pick, and that's unprotected.
Maybe that could be good maybe, And Denver's pick, which assuming Joker doesn't retire, is not going to be that good. And in twenty twenty eight they can swap with Dallas again. Do we think Dallas, now that they have Cooper Flag and Anthony Davis is there, that that's going to be a top five pick. No, And then that's really I think they have one more Denver pick later. But again, unless we think Joker is going to retire. So the point I'm making in a somewhat convoluted fashion is it's
a lot of stuff, but it's not great stuff. Now the argument there would be demons. Yeah, but they can package that stuff for a star. And that then gets to to me the next interesting domino for the Thunder, which is, yeah, are they going to want to be expensive? Are they going to want to for the first time in franchise history, be a big luxury tax butt up against the APRN type of team. And my answer to that question is I don't see why they would now.
And you can say, well, they want to chick correct, they didn't want to pay it then. And you can be like, well, but now they've won a championship. That could cut either way. Maybe you would be like, they want a championship now they just want to win, win, win. They also want to be like, we want a championship without having a super expensive team, so why do we need one? And so it is a different NBA guys,
and it's a different NBA. Also in this regard the onl like the guys who have reeled off a bunch are guys who are top ten all time players. The one guy who is pretty consensus outside of the top ten who reeled off even two is Isaiah Thomas, and he's firmly in the top twenty, but outside the top ten. So Joker would have checked those boxes. Little unlucky some Jamal Murray's injuries, you know, Jannis could have potentially little unlucky.
Uh didn't have you know, this type of pick bounty though, to be fair in Milwaukee to make up for some of those mistakes. And I'm not saying Shay is not Shaye. I said all year was the MVP. But it is surprising to me how many people who a month ago were quite convince the Celtics were about to reel off a bunch of championships are now convinced the thunder are about to reel off a bunch of championships. And so I you know too long, didn't listen all time single
season team. Yes, set up pretty well for the future. Yes, going to win this championship without a doubt. Yes. Ready to pencil them in for multiple titles. No, So that's where I land on Oklahoma City. They will be in the mix for years to come. But as a lot of teams can attest in the mix doesn't really buy you anything in the modern NBA.
So if they were in the same situation next year, you'd be a little bit more at it or ready.
To call it a dynasty. I think, oh, yeah.
They're back in the finals next year, because that's the other thing. We haven't had a defending champ make the finals. We haven't had a defending champ make round three since the Durant Steph Warriors. Think about that. We haven't had a defending champ even come close to defending their championship in seven years. So yeah, if they were Hell, if they just get back to the conference finals next year, that'll be noteworthy. We haven't had anybody do.
It, right, I don't see any reason.
I feel like, Okay, so he's more likely to have learned their last lesson from breaking up their last Big three than to straight I don't want to think. I don't think they're more players on top of.
It, correct. I don't think are going to break this crew up between now and next year. My guess is they run it back. But so did Boston, so did Milwaukee. You're like, you know what I mean, Like most of these TEAMSS did exactly that the defense has been great. All right, what let's do some follow ups here?
Do you think SGA, JAB and CHET are the best trio in the league right now?
It's it's not only demands and I should have probably prepped this question a little more. It's not only that I think they're the best trio.
Yeah, I mean, there's really no other trios.
Right, That's the thing, Like, who like the other teams that would argue they have a trio? I guess the Calves like it's a it's a trio. Boston is a duo with really good supporting.
That's what dat want to throw Derek White in there, like maybe.
Yeah, but yeah, but it's not you know, I mean, like the Knicks are a duo. The Pacers are, in my opinion, a duo. Like again, I like their supporting cast a lot, but to me, the trademark of a trio. I'm kind of making this up on the fly, but I just thought of it. It makes sense. It's where there's a real argument on who the second best guy is that there could be, you know what I mean like that some nights it's one like so the the Bucks win healthy are a duo. Right, and then we
go to the West. The Rockets, I don't even know if they're a like they have shingoon and a bunch of really nice complimentary pieces. The Lakers are a duo, like there is. Austin Reeves is a nice third player, but we know who their top two guys are.
Say it again, The Maps could end up being a trio next.
Year because a Cooper flag.
Yeah, but they unless you want to say Kyrie is getting a little older.
Well, remember Kyrie is going to be out.
Next season at all.
I didn't know, well, I mean he was out for next season entirely. Well no, no, no, he's not out for all of next season. But I mean he tore his acl you know, at with a month left in this season, so he's going to be out at least in the beginning. But the Nuggets are a duo, The Clippers are a duo. The Warriors are a duo that you know what I mean, like eies. So there are no It's not only that the Thunder or the best trio. The Thunder might be
the only trio. And then there's the Calves, who are really a quartet because of Donovan Garland Mobley and Allen, but it doesn't quite work. It would appear you know what. So yeah, they are clearly the best trio.
In the league.
The next one, who is okay see rooting for you think New York or the Pacers?
H Well, tonight they are definitely rooting for New York the next two games because what they want is the to have a huge rest.
I feel like if I were, if I were okay see, I'd be rooting for New York to get to the finals.
Tell me why. I just think it'd be an easier matchup.
I think like I like the Pacers more and I think they put up more of a fight against ok See.
You did pick the Pacers to beat the Knicks, didn't you.
Yeah, in the in the last uh our last part said oh those Pacers and six, Well.
Yeah, and you might have sold them short. They might end up we'll see if they gets the six. So I think that it's definite. The Thunder would rather the Knicks win the next two games just so it goes seven. But I also think you're right. The Pacers are just they play such a breakneck style. Now that would be it'd be fun Pacers Thunder. That's the number one offense against the number one defense. But the other reason the Pacers.
Maybe I should and maybe I should be giving the Pacers a bigger chance than I'm giving them as I'm already talking about the Thunder. Is this all time team? And also maybe it's bad strategy as a podcaster, because then what what topics am I supposed to do the days after the Thunder win the championship? I've already done it is the Pacers don't turn the ball over because Haliber doesn't turn the ball over. Yeah, and that's where the Thunder, you know, dominate teams.
And more liabilities on New York's defense than the Pacers in my opinion. So it's like, would you as the offense on Okay, see.
That there's no question about all right, we should have probably led with this follow up demanse.
Yeah, so last night you got a shout out on the broadcast. Richard Jefferson came out and said Nick Wright said something really smart yesterday about your take of the year. It's an automatic, it's an automatic review. So how did you feel about that cloud Chaser?
Well, first of all, shout out, r J.
Shout out.
It's like, I mean, little known fact in the first iteration of first Things First, Richard Jefferson was an in studio guest a handful of times. Yeah, yeah, I mean Richard Jefferson used to come in studio with us. I like him a lot, Yeah, I like him a lot. But he and I, he and I haven't like talked in person, probably since before the pandemic, you know, the I'm not at as when I go to NBA games, I have tickets, not press passes, so I can't get
down on the floor. And you know, he and I obviously work for different companies, but I think our Jay is awesome. And I happen to think the Breen RJ. Doris Booth has gotten a little too much flack, especially when and now again it might be for me it's just a nice respite from the Reggie commentary. But I I.
Like him on the trio him too.
People are wistful about Van Gundy and Jackson, like but Van Gundy, Jackson and Breen worked together for so long, you know what I mean that they had such a rapport in a chemistry that just takes time to build. But set that aside. Richard Jefferson bringing to a massive audience the idea that hey, let guys challenge when they want to challenge. And I don't think Breen initially totally understood it, because Breen was.
Like, oh no, I.
But I think Breen didn't necessarily, I mean, because RJ couldn't explain it in full in that moment, and then he tried to explain it a bit. I don't think he understood that you would still have a limit, your same limited amount of challenges one wrong or two maximum. So I think Breen's initial reaction was, Man, we're gonna be challenging every play, which is why he had such an allergy to it. But when you again, there's a sometime it's not often, it's a little often, but it's
not always. I have an idea and I'm like, oh, this is people are going to immediately respond to this. Sometimes I think they're going to respond negatively, and sometimes like, people are going to love this, And it is really gratifying.
In such a uh populated take landscape, where there's so many people giving so many opinions at all hours of every day, it's very hard to actually say something no one is said and so yeah, and so the fact that I was able to kind of plant my flag on that and then have RJ publicize it to a wider audience.
Right, Cloye, absolutely, And I haven't even played our Let me try to see if I can get our friend of the pod, Michelle Roberts, to set up a meeting with me and Commissioner Silver to.
Just pitch a few of these ideas. All right, let's go to the Minnesota side of things.
All right, Yeah, So Minnesota they got their butts whipped last night in the Western Conference Finals for a second year in a row. Do we think that this is their ceiling that they need add any pieces? What's going on here? Can they break through?
Well? No, I this clearly is this iteration of this team ceiling, Like that's obvious. But the way they get to a higher level is ant improofs. And I'm not putting this series like on ant For as good as Julius was the first two rounds, he kind of came crashing back down to earth in the Conference finals, which is a bummer. And you know, Minnesota already cleaned up their book looks a bit by trading towns, like the town's trade was somewhat about shaking the snow globe, But
it was also about getting off that contract. Now they're in a tricky spot because I think a lot of people thought Julius Randall was going to opt in to his thirty one million dollars next year. Was he good enough in this playoffs that he opts out and looks for a longer deal, and does Minnesota want to give that to him? I don't. Nas Reed is definitely opting
out and definitely getting money from somewhere. I think they're not going to be able to keep both of those guys, but what they do have, and then also Nikhil Alexander Walker is also it could heal leave That's a question mark. But Ant is locked, go Bet is locked, Jaden is locked, Dante is locked. Conley has got one year left, assuming he doesn't. I mean, he could retire, but that would just be him giving up eleven million bucks. Rob Dillingham
their draft pick from this year. You know he'll be back, and I like Terren Shannon another draft pick. So I think they are, you know, positioned fine. And I'm not acting as if Aunt let him down or anything like that. My point is the way they get to the next step is their twenty three year old be better in year twenty four than he was in year twenty three, and that this is this is a point that I that I made yesterday on TV, but I want to make it again here. When Shay was Aunt's age, he
had won zero playoff games. When Yiannis and Jokic were Ant's age, they had never been to a conference finals. So it I don't think it's fair to act like Ants anything other than ahead of schedule. I also think it would be silly to act like he doesn't for them to get to the next level. He doesn't need to improve, but he said as much after now, after the game, he was like, you know, basically, I'm not sad about this. You know what was the exact quote
he had? We hold on. I want to I don't want to get it wrong because it was a very interesting quote. Ant said, I have it right here. Dusty put it in our First Thing's First rundown because it's one of the things we're talking about today. A Aunt was asked, you know about how much this hurts, and he said, quote, I don't know why people would think it would hurt. It's exciting for me. I'm twenty three. I get to do it a whole bunch of times. I'm hurt, more so for Mike, Mike Conley, who was
sitting next to him. I came up short for Mike. We tried last year, we couldn't get it. We tried again this year. We'll try again next year. But hurt is a terrible word to use. I'm good. And then he went on to say I'm gonna work my butt off this summer. No one's gonna work harder than me this summer, I'll tell you that much. So that might be a little like athletic bravado or you know that Aunt does it, or maybe that really is how he feels.
But the reality is at twenty three, compared to where his peers were at twenty three, he's ahead of schedule. The only person, like one of his peers who had made a conference finals at that age was Luca and so I So, I don't think Timberwolves fans should be like crestfallen, like oh, we missed our shot. I do think that their best path forward is for Ant to take a leap similar to how Shay did from all NBA caliber to MVP favorite. And that's a heart that's
a very very very hard leap to take. But that's the best path forward for them. NBA Finals almost here, and every play could be the be the one that changes everything. It's the NBA Playoffs or heroes rise, Legacies are built, and the action never lets up. And with DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA, you don't just watch the madness, you live it. Back your favorite team, ride with your clutch, time killer. Bet
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void in Ontario. Bonus bets expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG dot co slash b ball. By the way, I want to throw this at you before we get to Nick. Spacers demand DraftKings obviously as a look aheadline. If it is Pacers thunder, what do you think that line is?
Just on the series to win the series?
No game one, game one Pacers all right?
Okay? See minus eight Oh.
I was going to say I thought you were going to be far off on this because you were going to find it disrespectful. You're closer than I thought. OKAYC minus nine. Yeah, I mean still a little like that's a that's a big spread for Game one of the finals. But it speaks the fact that DraftKings been pretty confident all year long to the thunder of the best team, and they are they are thus far being proven correct. All right, let's go to Knicks Pacers.
So you said on Tuesday you expected New York to come in and tie up the series. That obviously didn't happen. The Pacers are up.
Three to one. Now did the Knicks below their best opportunity?
You think, well, when you look at see this is where because I the question is for the Knicks to win the championship, is this the best chance they're going to have had? And my answer to that question is probably, like I don't look at this year as like, oh, it's wide open, because sitting on the other side of the bracket is a sixty eight win team that is run rough shot you know, in round one, in round three and you know Joker gave it, you know, gave
them their best shot in round two. But they really do look like a team that is the best team in the league. So I don't look at it as if you were in the Western Conference in the twenty the year the what is it the year the Nuggets won and sitting coming out of the East, and by the way, I think the Nuggets would have beaten the Celtics. But this isn't Daniel, I'm not. This is really actually about Lakers wistfulness. The sitting on the other side of
the bracket is the eight seed Miami Heat. If you're in the West that you're like, damn, that would have been a nice year to make the NBA finals, And so I don't look at it that way. What I do look at it for the Knicks is doing what they did against Boston and then not being able to close the deal and at least get to the finals is going to feel very painful, but it is noteworthy that that is how this has gone the last two years.
Looks like we're gonna have three years in a row where a team executes a pretty shocking upset and I don't even know if it's shocking, but executes an upset of the defending champ in round two and then gets pretty easily dispatched in round three. The Lakers beat the Warriors in round two when the Warriors were the defending champs, and then got swept in the conference finals. The Timberwolves beat the Nuggets in round two and then lost in
five in the conference finals. The Knicks beat the Celtics in round two and are now down three to one in the Conference finals. Particularly when it comes to the Knicks beating the Celtics and the Timberlves beating the nugg it's you do feel like was there a bit of an exhale after winning those series and then the other team jumped out on you. The question for the Knicks is are they going to simply run this team back next year? We can discuss that more if and when
their season ends. Well I shouldn't say if. At some point this season's gonna end, but when their season ends, the question for me is can they win tonight? And man, you gotta you gotta think the Knicks at some point are gonna just play a really good start to finish game. They haven't done that yet this series. Even the game they won, they were not really good start to finish.
You also have to think or at least. I would think that the Knicks that MSG tonight gives and they haven't been that good at home in these playoffs, gives them a little boost of energy and with the fans having been so good for them all year, that they
don't want to go out like that. And so some of the stuff to me is fixable in that even after makes you have to get back on defense because the Pacers are going to try to run, and you have to take a better do a better job taking care of the ball, and it is it's really if you're a Knicks fan, it's been really frustrating to see how many opportunities they've had in various moments in the series.
There are there's and they sorry I sound a little distracted though, because we're having slight internet issues, just so our producers know, there's the there's nobody on the Wi Fi or anything. There's nothing that there's there's no way to fix what we're dealing with right now. The the Knicks have had I know everyone's going to point to Game one, and Game one was a historic meltdown. Like we talked about it in the moment, We've never seen anything like it. But even outside of Game one, we're
yet to see them put four good quarters together. Game two, they just they did a good job shutting down Halliburton. They couldn't shut down Siakam at all, and they let the Pacers jump out after it's close. Throughout, the Knicks lose concentration or let go of the rope, or the Pacers are just better for the opening few minutes of the fourth quarter, and that's how they win Game three, which which the Knicks do win. The Pacers are dominating
that game. The Knicks don't play well for the first three quarters, Kat goes crazy and the Knicks steal it. Game four, the Pacers are in control really the entirety of that game. And now that the Knicks. For a moment it was like, oh, man, are the Knicks going to do to the Pacers in Game four what the Pacers did the Knicks in Game one? But there's a reason that had never been done in the NBA history. It's very very hard to do. The Knicker yet to put four great quarters together.
Now and dealing with the Celtics team where the Pacers are good late in these games.
It's like that's a good point there.
Late at the end, the Pacers can take care of business. No, that's a good difference. They'll shut themselves out of it. The Pacers will make the right play.
And the other thing is the Pacers are just going so fast, so consistently that late in these games they're used to it and the Knicks aren't. And so I listen, I'll go down with the ship. I'll pick the Knicks tonight. And then Game six becomes absolute theater to see if the Knicks can force a Game seven. But the it
is when you actually demands. As odd as this sounds, when you actually go back and look at the Knicks this postseason, there aren't many instances of them playing four awesome quarters, like the close out game against the Celtics is the one. But they listen. They blew out the Pistons in Game one, but they were down going into
the fourth quarter of that game. Their other victories in that series were by two points, one point, three points celt There are three wins against the Celtics before Game six. They were down fifteen in all of them, twenty and two of them. And so like it has been, we are seeing little instances of why the Nicks struggled against the best teams in basketball all year long, and to your point, they're now playing a team that can match their clutch late and it hasn't turned out well for him.
I still don't think the Pacers are, you know, gentlemen sweep better than the Knicks, which is why I think the Knicks and win tonight. But they certainly have looked like overall clearly the better team. All right, let's go to Halliburton.
Uh yeah, so Halliburton just went god mode the other day. So he had thirty two, fifteen and twelve with zero turnovers. Do you believe that he could be the best player on a championship team.
In today's NBA?
Yeah?
Yeah, I mean, I don't don't take this the wrong way. I don't think this version of Halliburton is substantially worse than last year's version of Tatum. Like you know what, I like, we just saw like the that and see it right like they're yeah, it was very different. I mean, they're dlastically different players. But I'm just saying, like when we're tearing out the players, I don't think this version of Haliburton is drastically different than the twenty twenty two
version of Steph. I mean they are very different players. But it's just as far as like caliber, caliber of player. Now, listen, peak Steph is a totally different animal entirely. But that's the version of Steph that won the championship in twenty twenty two is lesser than the you know, peak Steph Curry.
And so in today's NBA we have we have to adjust for what it takes to win a championship in the you know what's somebody on Twitter maybe smartly coined as you know, it's not the Big Three era, it's not the Superstar era. It's the weak link era, meaning like do you have can you consistently put out five quality players, four of which can defend? And that's the other problem for the Knicks is, and this was the worry when you traded for Towns is what if your
two best players are both real minus defenders. And Halliburton's game on what night was that Tuesday night? That was an all time game. A thirty point triple double with zero turnovers in the playoffs has had been done one time ever and it was by Baron Davis, oddly enough, and it was to put a stranglehold on a series to go to the finals. And so it's a hurky
jerky game. It's a weird game. The set shot is odd, but he's awesome and it's you know, it's why he got a spot in Club Superstar was not that game, but his awesomeness. And we can get to that now.
Yeah, so you unveiled your latest rendition of Club Superstar and he took Donovan. You put hot Donovan, Mitchell in and Hallean for the first time.
You took Embiid in ad out. Could you explain to us.
Your process and how the club management goes about getting these guys in and out.
Yeah so all right, so tell me. So, here are the twelve guys in and we can put the graphic up Halliburton, Brunson, Joker, Shay Luca, Jannis braun Steph, Donovan, Durant and Tatum. It's a twelve person max, So if you want to put someone in, you got to kick someone out. We took out Embiid because of all the injury stuff and ad for similar reasons. You might be like, then, how does Tatum stay in? Tatum has been so consistent and so durable that you know, one season long injury
does not get him kicked out like his spot is secure. Uh, you seem to have I mean the heart. His call was Donovan.
Donovan Mitchell surprised me.
Yeah, so who would you? Would you have any of those guys in over him?
That's what I was I was trying to think of.
I mean, yeah, Anthony Davis is the because.
In line was Wimby, Cade Shingoon and Devin Booker. Wimby is the obvious next guy in. But he's got to actually do it, you know what I mean, He's got to actually earn his way in, and so I I you know, we did.
A good job with and all that. Yeah, I understand how Donovan Mitchell slips in there.
I'm sorry, can you hear me? Sol dem On say yes, I've got you. Okay, good, Sorry about that. My I knocked my AirPod out of my ear. I mean, AD is a tough one. And the argument against Donovan is, you know, eight years in the league, in the playoffs every year, never in round three. It's hard, though, to use that as an argument to put a DN over him, because do I think Donovan could have you know, made a conference finals or an NBA finals alongside Lebron like AD?
Did I do like whenn ad was the guy he never got passed round one. It's a tricky spot. Donovan is for a guy who hasn't been deep in the playoffs, he's not a playoff dropper, Like you know what I mean? He puts up huge numbers, and Brew raised the question, do we not have twelve superstars?
Right? That's the other thing I was kind of but go ahead.
It's just like no good team. Was just looking around at the teams. I'm like, who can get in over this guy? But it's like it's a little right.
It's a weird because the league is so deep on really good players, but maybe a little thin on great great players. Because the other argument was should Kevin Durant be out? And my answer to that question is he's such an iconic player who still plays at a high enough level. I don't feel comfort He's still twenty seven a game, you know what, I don't feel comfortable yeah, taking him out? So to me, those are the twelve What are your follow ups here?
Yeah?
I care to explain how Joki took Lebron's throne.
That was an editorial choice made by the artist Jack Perkins, who does a great job. You can followhim on Twitter at Pure Hoop and listen, I give him the lists, he makes the picture. I gotta tell you, I wasn't thrilled with seeing Lebron out of the throne, but I guess jokers earned it for now. But yeah, that was not I didn't trust me. I didn't I didn't demand that. Now I did hear that. I'm okay with Lebron being moved out of the throne because he's no longer in
the argument for the best player in the league. Mike pal Simmons yesterday did a top fifteen player pyramid and didn't have Lebron on that. Now that's an outrage, Like that's just objectively that. Here's the thing about the Lebron rankings that is so irritating to me. At times, people keep prematurely downgrading him because of his age when we just saw it. He just finished sixth in MVP voting, sixth. He just finished firmly second team All NBA. So why, all of of a sudden, is he not one of
the fifteen best players in the league. Like you, the Lebron is anywhere you you could fairly argue for Lebron to be as high as fifth and as low as tenth best player in the league. But that's it. And the what is frustrating to me about Bill's ranking specifically, is the he still has Steph Curry as like the seventh best guy. There's no there's there's no way to look at this NBA season and say Steph was better than Lebron, not by stats, not by team record, not
by individual accolades, not by any of it. Now you can say his team made it one round further in the playoffs, so be it that that part is true, But that's it was that, but that team also was and be like, well, how much of Lebron's team success this year was because they traded for Luca. STEP's team was sub five hundred when they traded for Jimmy Like, that's a weird one for me. But set that aside.
Lebron obviously still superstar. Steph's obviously still a superstar. And that's you know, that's where we're at all, right.
Next, do you think that Halliburton still would you have still given him a spot if he would have lost in round one?
No? Now, I submitted this list before round one was over. I submitted this list. I took a screenshot of it yesterday to send to Gianna of when I submitted this list. I submitted this list May seventh. So let's see where we were in the playoffs on May seventh. I've got to I can pull that up quickly. So when I submitted this list, we were the games that had just been played. Is the Pacers had just taken a two to zero lead on the Caves. Oh, so that's interesting.
I didn't even realize that I submitted this list the morning after Halliburton executed that insane comeback on the Calves. And so maybe I, you know, maybe I was kind of in the afterglow of that. But he's proven me right by his performances throughout. And the other thing is so no losing in round one. No, but had they ended up losing in round two, I would have still been comfortable with it. All right, go some more follow ups here before.
So Wimby, it sounded like you had said, you said, Wimby's got to do. It isn't intentional him being walking inside of the club, Well.
It seems inevitable, but he's not in yet. It's the second straight year he's been trying to walk in. He's not in yet. And I also the other thing I could have done, Demons is put Paolo in line. The Pallo to me is he's on the same par on par with Shingoon, So I could have put Polo in line. We just didn't. All right, let's let's do the NFL stuff another day. I'm just not into it today. I'm still in basketball mode. And I'll be honest with you, I'm not just in basketball mode. I know, I talked
about it on the Pot on Tuesday. I think I'm also really, really in poker mode. I am so incredibly excited for the World Series of Poker. I am the studying in the way I study, which is not like study solvers and stuff, because I'm playing mixed games, but by watching old tournaments and listening to the commentary and seeing how guys play different spots. I am we have a you know, I've got my room set, I've got
the app verified. I am. I'm so excited about go about going to this tournament or going to these tournaments. And so I my work brain right now is occupied by the NBA. My personal brain is oper is occupied by poker stuff and uh the like the NFL OTAs we'll talk about it someone on the TV show. But I'm not I'm not dialed in on that right now. If I'm being totally honest, reminder of the audience, like rate subscribe review to the pod. Let's have some of
the audience members who are watching us live. They have some questions. Let's go ahead and get to them.
Uh, Producers.
After Demandsay said he thought James Dolan was Brew, Bruce said on TV that he thought Bryce Young was Demonse.
Is there beef Brewing?
No, there's no beef. How did that happen? Do you remember this?
I think it was you guys were in New Orleans. You guys were in New Orleans and you were talking to Brew. No, Brew was talking to Bryce Young. Oh he walked by him or something like that.
That's exactly right.
He came up to you and it was like, I didn't know Demond was here.
It's is crazy because I've seen him in person before, and like Bryce Young.
Is I feel like he's like six.
Six, maybe seven or eight inches shorter than you. Yeah, the no, that's all true. If you guys do have a similar look.
On the virus style and the hair, facial air, skin tone.
But yeah, but that part is true. All right, let's keep going.
Kyle says, Hey, Nick, is the reason you don't call out Brunson's defense more aggressively because you're a donegice guy.
No, So I I think that at times we can be misleading, we can be disingenuous. I guess on how much we what's the right way to put it? Team defense is incredibly important to winning a championship, however, and individual players overall impact on your team for stars is so much more heavily influenced by how impactful they are offensively. It is why there is the All NBA Team and then separately the All Defense team, because there are guys who might be first team All Defense who don't have
a shot at being on the All NBA team. And so I it's not Jalen Brunson is obviously a minus defender. It is in my opinion, and that does put a ceiling on where he can be in the overall hierarchy of the league. But it is the team and the coaches job to figure out how to make do with the fact that our superstar is a minus defender. And it's just I don't think it's for lack of effort,
for Jalen Brunson. He's just not big enough and not the athlete that he would need to be the All right, let's go on to the next one.
Platonic Zombie. F YI, you forgot the Suns with the trio discussion.
I assume that's a joke. I mean the Sons are a duo as well with Katie and Booker. I assume that's a joke.
Joshua has what a title for SGA make him the best thunder of all time?
Kdi's got an MVP there and a finals appearance. Russ has an MVP there and a finals appearance as the co star. If Shay wins an MVP there and wins the championship.
And finally VP, probably.
The I yeah, and finals MVP. I guess I don't know that I'll feel that way, but I but that's he. I don't know that I would look at him that way, but he probably would be. All right, let's go to Eric.
Eric says Demond's ay, I saw you hooping on Tuesday. Look like you at least didn't get to deput up happy you got the win. What's your record? Have you played and are you ready for playoffs?
So what's this about.
So I'm in a rec league or a Culver City league with a couple.
Of my guys at work.
Oh really, actually yeah, I actually got a I did it the last game.
You got ejected from a direct league game directly game.
Yeah, they didn't even give you a warning though, Like it was what you know, the guy.
The guy was like tugging on my arm, just doing a bunch of unnecessary Draymond green Es things, and I pushed and I was like, hey man, you know, watch out, and the ref was like you got to go sit down, and he's like, actually, you can't be in the gym.
I was like, all right, team, and I think we're like two and seven right now I've played.
Yeah, we're terrible. This is only my I.
Played in one game before that, and then this is my second fold.
I played in three. The second game I got.
Ejected like two minutes into it, and then this last game I played the entire time. They've been doing a lot of losing without me, but the schedule just conflicts a lot with like a lot done back there.
Team the bus first, was I supposed to lie about our record doing a lot of losing without me? No, I didn't mean it like that.
I was just saying, like these games, I didn't see those losses. I can't. I don't know what happened there.
But uh, but yeah, you ejected once or twice one time, and.
Okay, so when you described misunderstood, the.
Games have been super late.
They conflict and it's just like I can't like some of these I can't make Yeah, but uh but yeah, so every every team goes to the playoffs and we'll be there and next time.
Okay, coming down.
So you have a chance to to go on a Cinderella run, but no, we're are you how what? What percent are you that you were pre achilles.
As far as like leaping ability and all that, I'm probably at like eighty five ninety, Like it's not all the way there, but I'd say a lot of it's still there.
Though a lot of it's still there. And uh, and it didn't affect your shot or anything else.
No, the only thing that's really affected my I feel like it's my broken my permanent broken finger. But but no, it did take a little bit to get my legs up underneath me though, like I felt like.
Like I'm glad you're playing. Are you playing at I still say where.
I still play at the gym, and I just play at this rec League center every Monday or Tuesday whenever.
But the gym that you have a membership for, I still go there. That's great, Okay, great, I didn't know you were playing, Eric, you go. Yeah, so you did see de monster.
Yeah, that was definitely my Hopefully we see you guys in the season.
Yeah, and hopefully you don't get it. Can't maximum one ejection a season.
You know, it was so embarrassing like that, will not have it again. I was really embarrassed.
Well, especially when you said it happened two minutes in.
That was important. Crazy party. I had six points, Like it was in like thirty seconds. I scored the six points. Another guy, get me out of the game. I was already annoyed about some stuff when I walked in the gym. But you gotta you know basketball is an escape. Leave that stuff out the way.
I love to hear it. All right, Good job Blue Duck, good job Volume, Thank you to DraftKings. We will the reminder and for the Blue Duck folks and Volume folks all get the details on how we're gonna do this next Thursday. Shows from Vegas Tuesday, regularly scheduled show, maybe a quick show over the weekend to react. If this series wraps up on Saturday night, maybe even one tomorrow. We'll see how the playoffs go, but we'll see all Then heading to work to go on TV. See you
guys on First Things First in a few hours. Thank you. Also, Richard Jefferson, What's right?