Suzanne Lerner

Susanne Learner is the president and CEO of Michael Stars, the fashion essentialist company she co founded with her late husband. She's an activist and a philanthropist devoted to running a socially responsible business, and she's been doing it for decades, far before it was cool. Susanne is also a board member of the MS Foundation for Women. Who was Susanne Larner before Michael Stars was built. That is a long story.

I grew up in a in a nice little suburb that my parents could not afford in Chicago, and my dad was a traveling salesman, so he would be gone from Monday morning to Friday night. I was a latch key kid with my two older brothers, and my mom was a bookkeeper, but I used to help my dad on weekends, so he sold jewelry and I loved being with him, you know, checking the invoices and and sorting cards and I just love that kind of thing. So

I just kind of grew up with these entrepreneurs. Even though they weren't successful, they had that entrepreneur of spirit. And then in high school, I got involved in the political movements because it was anti war movement, social justice,

racial justice. Growing up in Chicago, this incredible movement. So I started doing things like I was the type of for the underground newspaper, and I went to demonstrations and I was kicked out of school for wearing blue jeans because at that time you could not wear blue jeans school. So between that and demonstration and then my senior year of high school, I decided to bus to a racially integrated high school because I grew up in a high

school that had no integration at all. And there was a program called Operation Wing Spread and I was able to get on it. And this is after Chairman Fred Hampton the Black Panthers was was murdered a month later and I said to my parents, I'm going, and they just could not stop me. They always really helped me get to where I was going. They never really said no. I think I was a very good salesman. Really, even

in that day, I could convince people. So I went to the high school and I realized what the world was like for other people. So I went to university and dropped out and worked as a secretary. So I had about a couple of years working for different companies. Even in high school, I was like a Kelly girl, and uh. I saved my money and I went off to Europe by myself when I was twenty one and spent three months there and realized I wanted to do

more traveling. So came back to Chicago, went to school, and went off again, and I realized I really wanted to see the world. So I saved my money again, and I met an Australian guy in Greece one summer, and I ended up going to school in France, and then I moved to Australia on a fiancee's visa so I could get a visa and worked there. And then I traveled for two years overland, all through Indonesia, Thailand, Nepal,

India and experienced life so um. One day in New Delhi, I wandered into a shop with a woman named Santo Sharma, and I was kind of blown away because it was a woman who owned an import export business. And we started talking and we became friends, and I went every day, and then she introduced me to some Americans and British people who wanted to start a clothing company. And I

had not done that. I mean, I had been on like the teen board for a department store, but I had loved seventeen magazin Sean always was dealing with hand me downs, but being able to put together outfits, you know, embroidering blue jeans and in knitting sweaters. So I decided to do it. And I had no idea what I was doing. None of us had any idea. The designer was British and she lived in Kabba, Afghanistan, making these beautiful dresses. And we took an old Mercedes and we

drove up to Afghanistan. I remembers in between two wars, and I ended up in Los Angeles with one of the partners who was here Afghanistan and India to l A like how did you get to l A? So Roger Wong, who was my part one of the partners had a art gallery here and he in this French American named Alan, who had the money. We're friends and we're importing beautiful jewelry, silver jewelry and sweaters from Morocco. And so he called Roger. His car had broken down.

He said, Roger, I need a Mercedes engine. Roger bought the engine, took it on a plane New Delhi, and we all met and we said, we think we can do this company. And Allen had the money, Margaret had the designs, and Roger knew one person in the clothing business. So I went home into Chicago, packed my trunk and I moved to l A. And we started by talking to this woman Lee that her name was Lee Walzac, just coming back to me, and she rapped Casherrell and

she helped us so much with understanding the business. And in those days, there were these big, big, big books that had every single specialty store in the country, and we just had we were so we were waiting for our samples. We were getting ready to start. We we you know, had our little business license. And then Margaret and Allen broke up. They were boyfriend and girlfriend and Roger and I then said, okay, now what are we

gonna do well. The prior to leaving, I had met my plane had been delayed, and I ended up sharing a took took back to New Delhi with this Italian guy who said, I know these people in Old Delhi. And we went into the shop and it was this amazing company called Sader Silk, and they were making things for Fia Rucci and all the Italian brands, and they were very friendly, and I was very friendly and I bought some things. So I said to Roger, I remember

these people. I'm going to send him a letter, and I think you should just go back there and get samples. So Roger took out his credit card, we put my ticket on it, I got on a plane. I showed up on their doorstep and they went, Susie, we just got your letter this morning. We're happy to see you, but we don't do business with Americans because we don't trust them. And by the end of the day they said, we're giving you a sample line and you just have

to pay for it. And so I got a sample line, and I came back to Los Angeles and we called the line Susie Wong for me and Roger, and we started going out. You know, in those days there was big specialty stores like Contemplate Casuals and Judy's and Bullets was here. There were so many department stores and you could wander in on a Friday on the open by date and they would just write orders. Business was so

amazing in the late seventies. So we got orders, and um, I called my parents and I said, you did not pay for my college. And I knew they didn't have a lot of money, and I said, I know I'm going to be successful. I need to borrow money. I want to borrow here's the orders, and I want to have money to pay for the orders. And they lent me money. They lent me fifteen thousand dollars. So we got the orders and I went back to India to check production and we shipped it and we were making

some money. And then the end of the year there was always quota with customs. You know, you could only bring in a certain amount of goods into America from a foreign country. And quota closed in November and I hit We had a shipment sitting at the airport, so it was like the end of the road. But what we did was is when it cleared. I took the goods in and then we went out again and resold them.

And I was packing boxes in my apartment, typing, typing invoices, you know, four shirts, four little shirts in a box with a separate invoice, you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. But eventually it failed and we just could not do it. Well, did you pay your parents back? That's the big question in many many ways, but not that way. Starting a

business is really hard. Most businesses do fail. What in you felt like you could call your parents and say, like, I know I'm going to be successful, Like a lot of young women don't say things like that. Yeah, and especially I think the days I was in I was a feminist and I felt I was powerful to accomplish things, and I knew it wasn't going to be in regular kind of things that women typically were doing in those days.

And uh, I think when you're have no choice, you pick yourself up and you do things that you wouldn't typically do. Because I knew what it meant from my parents to say yes today, I understood um what it was, and I just I was really lucky because they believed in me. So what happened after where we left off. So UM, I ended up getting jobs and UM first job was at a little import company from India, and I did everything I you know, I checked the bills

of lady. I would sit in the telex and write orders. I was assistant to the owners. But I always felt like I was failing up because I got fired from that job. And I think the the owner's wife didn't really like me, and I didn't quite understand that tension sometimes between women and what was happening. And I think I was powerful and I had an opinion and I probably stated it and she might not have wanted to

hear it. So I moved to other companies. UM. And then I moved to a company called Disco Jeans, Disco and Law Disco Jeans, and I would sit there with allocation of things, this high of orders and have to decide who was getting shipped. Um, we have lots of sales reps. I worked for two male sales managers. And just last month I linked in with my old owner, the owner of the company, and I said, do you remember me? He said, blue eyes, curly hair, and respectfully aggressive. Oh.

I love that. That's actually my favorite new term. Respectfully aggressive. This is amazing. Respectfully, how do people perceive you? Like, how did people perceive you when you were in your twenties and how you were doing things. See, you've always been a huge salesperson. I mean since high school with your dad, You've always been a salesperson. And I don't think most people think of a designer as a salesperson. And I don't think of myself as that. I I

see incredible salespeople, and I don't think that's it. I think I believe in my product, and I have passion and I'm nice. I think people weren't used to it. Actually, a couple of weeks ago, my Nordstrom buyer, when we first had Michael Stars, she told a story. She's a black woman, and she said, you know, Susanne, you are always nice to me. Just I would walk into a showroom with twelve other Nordstrom buyers and people wouldn't look

at me, people wouldn't speak to me. And she said, I had the biggest pen, I could write the biggest orders. But she said there was something there. And so when I came to her with the T shirts, she said, I blough from you because of who you were, and I didn't even know about the T shirts, but I bloffed you because of the type of person you were, and I had never she never told me that we've been friends for thirty five years and I never heard

that story. So you know, it's really good. Always think that. I mean, it always comes back to all your relationships in your networking well. But I mean, I think that's something that people don't talk enough about in business because we're supposed to be like hard and fierce and everything, but just being a good, kind person, Like, do you think that's one of the things that had had defined your career? I think so. I think so. I think

that everybody always knows me as being honest. I mean, listen, I can be tough when there's a lot of things in the plate. I can be frustrated. I sometimes get negative with people, and I kicked myself in the end. I learned now to be able to apologize and talk to them about it and explain the reasons why and try to improve always. But I think I've ended up

being straight, a kind, honest but kind. I think you always have to do that as a person sitting next to you that's doing the task, whether they're failing or achieving, and it's still a human being. And now a quick break. So how did you launch Michael Stars? Well, from like for about four or five years, I had grown my two D square foot showroom to a three D fifty square foot showroom and I ended up taking on a partner.

That particular week that Michael walked in my showroom. And he walked in and he at this South African accent. I kind of had met him before through one of my manufacturers, and and um, he came in with the line of Polly cotton sweatshirt shoulder padded printed with sweatshirts, and the sweatshirts were really super ugly and shoulder pads had just gone out of style, which I knew, but the designs are really super cute. And I was single.

I had broken up with my boyfriend about six months before, and I was determined to never be with anybody again, and I was just so attracted to him. He was handsome, which kind of made it easier and interesting. So after three days of thinking about representing the line, I waited

until Sunday night. I remember this call. I was so nervous because he was very convincing and I turned down the line and asked him out in a date and he was like, wait a minute, I don't remember what you look like, and nobody turns me and just could not understand it, and he said okay, and so we made a date for two days later and we had dinner and a bottle of wine and that was it. And a week later he showed up with the hand painted designs on T shirts and I said that I

can sell. And that's when we started. He had second mortgaged his home. So I was the sales part and marketing and designing, and he was the marketing and running the business. And uh, it was there. It was there every minute of our lives. And it was already called Michael Stars. At that point it was called Michael Stars. The original artist was a man named John Stars, who was a volleyball playing her most of each resident that used to sell them at little fairs, and Michael used

to buy them and bring him. He had a home in Miconos, used to go to Miconos a couple of times a year and his friends would He'd give them away to his friends because everybody wanted them. So we knew we had something, and I put him up. I put him up in the showroom. Remember this little baby chew room and Fred Siegel, Bloomingdale, Barney's all walked into my door and said, we want to buy those. How

do you think they knew where your door was? Those days, people just wandered the halls and they kind of look they were looking for interesting new things. In those days, it wasn't as difficult, I think as nowadays, because people don't do those kind of things. Even the trade shows. There's fewer people walking around, there's fewer there's fewer stores to sell to. What's the process today? Start a website?

I mean in terms of marketing, Start a website, get some photos done, send an email, hope somebody's gonna look. Use your networking. I use LinkedIn all the time. I highly recommended. I will just reach out to people. So you mentioned you know sustainability, and I think you've really been a model as a leader in so many ways, but one of them is that you've always you've always included social impact and everything you've done very openly, long

before many CEOs would touch anything. How did you navigate that we would all be charitable ourselves personally? Michael used to read something in the newspaper. He cut it out and sent a check, so it was it's been always twenty years now. We started the foundation because we wanted to give to organizations that my customers would care about. And so basically it's like women and girls. I cared about voting rights and um helping women change their communities

through government. So I was. I used to read Reclear, you know, that magazine had was most political fashion magazine out there at the time, and I found a little clipping of an organization called Women Thrive. Women Thrive helped train women in advocacy so they as a group could get together and go to their governments and their towns and their villages and make change. And that just appealed

to me so much. So I wrote them a letter, I sent them a little check, and when I went to Washington for another event, I called them up and said, I'd really love to meet with you, and the woman met me for breakfast. I don't know what I was doing. I'd never said on a board. I didn't know anything, and she said she started talking to me and I started learning, and so later they offered me a position on the board, and I thought, why do you want me.

I own a small company. I don't have the credentials, and they said, that's why we want you, because you have a real voice. And so that was my start sitting on nonprofit boards, and through that and the foundation, we started giving more and more grants strictly to grassroots women's groups. We didn't go for the big, big organizations. They have their own way of fundraising. We wanted to go where our money had the most impact. Most fashion companies are like churn and burn right. They come out

with a splash and then they disappear. One thing that makes Michael Starr's unique is that you've had such staying power and at the same time, you've never maybe at one point you were the sexy object, you know, the sexy, shiny object, but you've always just been a staple. Is that part of your strategy or was that accidental. I feel like we always tried to do things that were on trend, that would last a long time, that was

a staple, and not things that were really trendy. I think though, for the most part, it's because we were a family owned company, and when I would see that one product, like our our screen printed T shirts, nobody wanted him. After a couple of years, we went to one of our shows. I said, Michael, they're not nobody wants them anymore. Put the booth up, and so we

had a little five by ten booth with that. And in the meantime, I had been doing garment die T shirts with French ribbon roses on it with my partner, and I said, why don't we just do garment die T shirts because we have customers asking for them. So we had a little a ten by ten booth with those. We got like five orders for the printed T shirts, and everybody wanted the solid T shirts. So I think over the years I really had the gift of knowing

what people want and what's going to be next. So we've gone through a lot of transitions, you know, because then we created our shiny object, the Shine T shirt, which in the nine these kind of blew us up, and our one size idea. I had a blue Shine T shirt. Everybody has a Shine T shirt story, every single person I meet. Now it's so funny to hear these stories, and I'm telling you, they're all happy. My

first date, my first thing in college. I couldn't afford it, and my mother finally I was able to afford it. I said, do you still have it? Now? Their daughters are taking them out of their closets. It's really it's really wonderful to see it. What is advice you would give to a younger woman kind of starting out or a woman in her forties wants to pivot had You've

got to find what you're passionate about. I think a lot of people were probably careers they really weren't happy in and how to deal with especially these women in thirties and forties that are having to redefine themselves and what to do. So I think they just have to go and search for it a bit. But it takes work, and I think using again your networks of people who care like you care, you can find something. And I know there's so many women that lost their businesses. We know,

I mean, what's the percentage? I mean there was a huge, huge failure of so many women, and how do we get those women back into the workforce and caring about things. We were very lucky at Michael Stars. We um had a furlowsom people, but we started making masks immediately and everybody wanted casual clothing work from home. Clothing. So our business actually exploded, and I had been self funding the business for five years before. I didn't want venture capital money.

I wanted of Michael Stars as a woman owned company. I just wouldn't do it, and that kind of helped us survive that and be able to bring in people who cared, who were committed, who are costly committed to the mission of Michael Stars. Like what we felt about women in the world inequality, I wanted women like that working for me. And I have to say, we have so many people that have worked for us for so long they are now senior managers, directors, assistant managers of

a warehouse. As woman, she's now my director of all my warehouses. People have become controllers from being accounts payable. I think you've got it. You've got it almost interview the company you want to work for as much as I'm interviewing you. You have to make sure it's the right fit. And now a quick break, Suzanne. I know that you and your husband ran the company together for so long and then he passed away. What was that like for you, both personally and professionally. It was a

long road. He was sick and we didn't tell a soul. He didn't want anybody to know, and then it was getting more obvious. So I had that point four national show rooms and we incorporated into Michael Stars, and I joined the company officially full time, integrating everything and was going to work every day. And he didn't want to. He wasn't as enthusiastic about it. He was happy staying home. We had just adopted a dog, and um, he hung out,

he started painting and left more to me. You know, we were the like dynamic duo and if we weren't loving each other, we were fighting each other. And you know, it's the third person in the bed. So it was a big change for me because at night when we used to play scrabble all night long and talk about things and books and reading and traveling and spending time in Greece, he would he was going to bed early.

So I had to get used to actually being by myself because I was always the one traveling, he was always the one home. So we finally told people, and um, you know, when he passed away, it was very difficult. It was expected, so I knew that, but I didn't understand what it meant. After being together thirty years but I what was I going to do? I had to go to work. I had to be there for everybody there.

We considered the company our family. Twice we had big offers to sell and we just didn't want to sell. We we didn't want that money. We wanted our family and our business. So I would get up five o'clock every more name and go off on the patio with a coffee. And so many people wrote to me and I would sit there and cry and read emails and post from Facebook and find old photos and um, I would just get up and go to work. And UM, I knew that was something that Michael wanted me to

do because we believed in it so much. And it was hard because people were Michael was a very big presence, huge personality, and I don't think people trusted me. They didn't really know me. They didn't know my background, they didn't know the years I had worked for other companies. I mean, Michael had been an entrepreneur, he never had any background, so they didn't know all the guidance he was getting from behind with me. And the amount of times I've had where I pushed my agenda and pushed

what I believe so much and I would. That's the other thing. Just keep pushing for what you believe. I would keep doing until he finally warmed down and he

agreed to to something. But there were a lot of silos at the company, A lot of people that might have resented me, didn't think I. I thought I was going to fail, and I just kept working at it every day and trying to break down the barriers and getting people to talk to each other and redefining and re looking at the company as a new, shiny object of what we could do to make it new again. Did you get rid of those people who were in

the silos or did you convert them into Suzanne Learner fans? Well, I I converted most people. There were a couple that I know during the years and wanted me to get wanted to fire me because I think they wanted the power. And so those people ended up leaving. And I had to be strong, you know, because you have to speak up for yourself. You have to feel empowered to be able to deal with that. And you know you can't deal with it angry. You gotta you gotta figure out

your strategy for doing it. So no, we we had a we had a great crew that are still many people are still with us, and you know Michael, I mean psychics. I'm going to talk about psychists for a second. I'd go to Greece. We have a home there and I'd sit in my bedroom and Michael had a hammock he he loved being in and I always put it up. And I was sitting there and looking out the window and literally it was just moving back and forth. There

was no wind, just moving back and forth. So then I just went to a psychic and he was there, and I, you know, I felt very uh not just warm and fuzzy, but that I know he's there. I know, I know he's always around. And so I don't really believe in heaven in hell, but um, I believe that people stay with you. Their spirit stays with you, their energy stays with you. And so I think I don't miss him as much as I might have if I hadn't had those experiences, because he's there, his niece, photos up,

big photos up in the warehouse. Everybody talks about Michael, um, everybody thinks about him. He's really the core of the company. Before he left, before he passed away, did you talk with him about what the transition would be like at the company. He when he handed me the reins, he knew that I would be a good and you know, at the same time, I was going out more doing a little bit more public speaking. Why we hadn't even doing any public speaking about what I believed and what

I wanted to do. And I was encouraged. And actually the night before he died and we didn't know he was in hospice, but he was home step up. It offered me an opportunity to speak on a panel and I said I can't do this, and he said, you go, you go, you go. And it was the first time I spoke with anybody. And I came home and he died the next day. And I feel like he waited for me, like he believed in me, and he wanted

what was best for me. When I used to go out to town places to like my board meetings, he wouldn't tell me this. He'd always argue with me. I'd never tell him until the night before that I was actually leaving, because he'd always get upset that I was leaving. But my my friends would say, oh, he said, oh, Susie is out saving the world. She's out of town doing the things. Oh, she really believed in in what I believed in and encouraged me in many ways, but

there was no big transition plan. What do you do at night now now that he's not there, Well, I'm probably on zoom calls and working and doing something until probably about eight o'clock at night, and uh, then it's trying to make something healthy, binging the latest show playing. Oh, I do play Spider scroup, I do play Spider. It's terrible. It's Spider solid here, do not start. One of my friends started and yelled at me the next month, saying I can't get off of it. So it kind of

it's almost like my meditation. I mean, I do my plots in my yoga. That's so funny, Susan, because I always say that my my near time spelling bee is my meditation. Well, I have to say that's probably a lot better for your mind learning new words there, which

is just so many less. But you know, I'm doing so many things between my activism and you know, and running the company, and and and friendships and trying to change the world and getting equal rights to memo passed, and there's so much going on that I actually have to find that break to do nothing. And I am do not have children like you too, So I I'm lucky enough to have that thing. It's just me and my dog. And don't you have stepchildren? I have two

stepchildren and I have two grandchildren. And are you involved in their lives? I am? I am. Sometimes it's not easy, No, I feel they have resentments that the kids, the step kids definitely have resentments. And I hope that one day they'll figure it out. But I'm not holding my breath, And you know what, it's their life. They have to decide and understand who I am for them, and I'm hoping one day they'll they'll figure it out. And I have so many friends, and I really do feel like

friends and companions are your family. They really are. And I have a wonderful brother, anna, niece and nephew and they've got kids. And I'm like, Shoes Shoe, I show up. You know. Those FaceTime calls every week are so great. I just saw him last weekend. They're in New York and I welcome to Dory Shoes you so I know you have you can build families wherever. Speaking of so much Ado, what is next for Michael Starters. I mean,

where do you hope to bring the brand? If someone you know came to your door tomorrow and tried to buy the brand from you, would you sell it? How are you thinking about that? I'm a proponent of keeping your company's private. I've seen so many brands, so many brands that are no longer relevant. They're just a licensed brand because they got off the founder got offered a lot of money. They take it, they have a contract.

They usually stay about a year before they're either kicked out or the company has changed so much the product becomes less relevant. Somebody's got to pay back the VC, somebody's got to pay back the future profits. So the quality suffers and the pricing goes up and they lose their way. And I don't want that to happen with Michael Stars. It's just something about this company that's so special. So I'll probably end up doing an employee share and

do something different. Um, we have wonderful new people that have come on board that are helping me out now or I don't have to sit in the design room and fix things. You know, they're they're now they're helping product. We have a wonderful marketing team, um great art director. And so my plans are to help the community of Michael Stars learn more about actionable items that they can do in the world to change the world, because gender

equality for me is really important as racial equality. And a lot of my customers don't have time to think about where to go, what to do, how to get involved. They're very busy lives, and I want to give them that opportunity to learn and share about things. Even if they just share it on a like, I want them to share it with their friends for more and more people to know about what we need to do in this world to really have full purity. And so that's

my big mission and I'm Michael Stars. I could have closed it and business was kind of not great when Michael passed away, and I just pushed my own money. I took my savings and I said, I'm going to make this happen. I believe in this brand, and my c p A and my board and people who worked for me believed in me, and from them believing in me, I was able to go forward into the world and just do what I had to do. And I invested a lot of money back in the business. But I

just knew that it's something more important. It's it's not so tangible, and now I have to stay in the last two years business is phenomenal. So now I'm my role this year is to incorporate my vision and who I am into the brand. All right, well, we're gonna go to our speed around now, Suzanne, where we're going to ask Tess a few questions and you can give us quick answers. What are you reading. I just finished

a book by Twohrry Coates called The Water Dancer. It is one of the more beautiful books I've ever read in my life, so I highly recommend it, and I'm going to start reading. I try to read a fiction in a nonfiction book at the same time. And I've got a pile of books that I've collected over COVID

that i want to read. But um, I just got a friend of mine just gave me Patrice Colorea's new book that's about twelve Ways that you kind of you can change the world because she dressed wrote incredible book about her upbringing in California, and she's really an icon for me. So that's the next book I'm reading. I'm reading a lot from African American authors. I want to understand more. You know, I was white privileg I didn't think I was privileged, but I was definitely white privileged.

And understanding the world in a different way is for me really important. You mentioned binge watching shows. What are you binging right now? Oh? The Guilded Age, which I really love. I love Julian Fellas and and Pammy and Tommy. A friend of mine produced it, and actually it's really good and it really talks about a woman's role in those days. And she was the one who got all

the pressure. He he got nothing. So it was really interesting how dynamics of women and feminism and culture and sexuality and pornography, UM, and what it was like in those days and what she went through really different. Now when you travel again abroad, where is the first place you're going? I mean, I really want to go back to India again. I haven't been there in years. But you know, I'm a little fearful about the changes that have happened in the world since I've gone um and

haven't traveled as much. And you know, Haiti, I've been going to Haiti since the earthquake, and it's like a second home, and their political problems are so bad that I haven't been able to go there either. If you had to put all of your money into one cause I know you're involved in so many, what would that one causby is a terrible question. And to ask me, I am giving money. I you have no idea how much money I give up. I mean, it's not the amount of money, it's the amount of I know. But

that's why. That's why you're the only guest I've ever asked this to Suzanne, because you're always giving your money away. For me, it's supporting women in whatever way. So I'm kind of getting around this. You know, I'm supporting women

of color, grassroots movement building. I really do believe that the world's going to change from the bottom up, and so anything that I can do to create equality, purity, and power in women are the causes that I give to all Right, Well, lou Burns has been listening to our conversation this whole time, and he is joining us with the male perspective because of who you are, and you have a huge following. Um, if you could change anything that's happening right now, the outcome of it, what

would it be and why keating democracy. I think that in this time right now, with what's going on in every single state that's not allowing reproductive rights, voting rights, the war in Ukraine, the authoritarian governments all over the world that are taking power, it really is frightening to me. So I think the biggest thing that I would love to see is democracy in action, where everybody has an

equal voice. So, you know, it's funny, Sam. I met Susanne years ago at the Riveter in l A and she's one of those people that you quickly realized, Wow, I'm really lucky I met her for a myriad of reasons, right, Like, she's very cool, She's kind of like the epitome of cool, and she's been doing things for decades that were very avant garde that like maybe we really think are normal now, but like she did them way before anyone else did.

It's funny. I knew Michael Starr's way before I knew of Susanne because I was Michael Starrs T shirt wearing person in my I think twenties, I mean years ago, and um, I remember it was like one size fits all and everyone had those that were like the sparkly T shirts. And then the way I met Susanna. It's kind of funny, but she came to one of my political events that I'd organized and then she cold email me on LinkedIn and asked if we could set up

a call. And it sounds like that's something she does often, Like she reaches out to people she wants to know and she just goes for it, which you know, I'm a huge fan of. And I mean, it's inspiring to see someone because I remember when she reached out to me, I'm like, oh my god, she's a CEO of Michael Starr. She's just you know, she's a stud. Like that's kind

of how I think of her. And um, but if so, you know a lot of people think they're above doing something like that, and I love the fact that as a CEO, she still does that and she's still doing it, you know, in her you know, well into her career beyond just being a CEO, and you know, she's she's very young at heart, but like she's still incredibly curious in creative and I think it sounds like she's been

that way her entire life. I Mean, it was so interesting to hear about her childhood and to hear like I'm sorry, Like not a lot of people are like running off to India and meeting with textile designers in you know, whatever year that was. It's fascinating, It's wild. I also love the part where she shared how she's rebuilt her life after the loss of a spouse, which

I think a lot of people can relate to. And um, you know, having no kids of her own and losing a spouse, that must be an incredibly intense and lonely experience, and somehow she still lived right away. It seems like she figured out a way to live a fulfilling, rich life, and I found that so impressive. I agree. I mean, she's it sounds like she's been very intentional about it, and that's hard, right, But she's kept living and kept dreaming and kept meeting people and doing things and building

Michael stars. I hope that my career looks like hers in a few decades from now. Thanks for listening to What's Her Story with Sam and Amy. We would appreciate it if you leave her review wherever you get your podcasts, and of course, connect with us on social media at What's Her Story podcast? What's Her Story with Sam and Amy is powered by my company, The Riveter at The Riveter dot c O and Sam's company, park Place Payments

at park place payments dot com. Thanks to our producer Stacy Parra and our male perspective, blue Burns