Sarah LaFleur, Part One

M Lafleur, known for women's power casual work. Where when you first started your career, Sarah, you did not intend to be an entrepreneur. You went into finance and you were a management consultant. What was the moment that changed that? The moment I changed that was really because I didn't know what else I was going to do with my career, which very much at that point it felt like my life. Um, I think the way many of us think about our careers and our in our twenties. But Sam, the way

you just asked that question reminded me. When I was working in management consulting, we had like a session on entrepreneurship and there was a partner at the firm came and said like, well, you know, do you think any of you are our entrepreneurs? And looked around the room and I think one person out of thirty our class was thirty people raised his hand and then he was like, well, what do you think about the rest of you? And he was like and someone else said, well, I don't know.

Maybe I'm an entrepreneur, maybe I'm not. And he said, well, if you're not sure about it, then you're definitely not an entrepreneur, because an entrepreneur they know in their hearts that they were an entrepreneur. And I was like, well, I guess I'm not an entrepreneur then, you know, like desfinitely like I was, I was like, I definitely don't feel it. And if anything, my mother being an entrepreneur,

I just saw how hard it was up close. You know, how much it's spilled into our lives and her life for like, how much it affected her personally. You know how difficult the people management side was, and how friends that she worked with they had falling out and and I would often see her like I always stay like I always I would I would see her sipping whiskey by herself in the middle of the night when I would come down for a glass of water. So like I think, having it seen it up close, I was like,

this is not for me. And it was really only when I left my last job having only been there for four months, and so I like really kind of like rushed out of there without a plan B and you know, I didn't know what I was going to do next with my life. That I was like, well, I've always had this idea, maybe I should work on it. That had to be a tough period of time. What

was it like for you? I think I had been wandering as I think, you know, I mean, I I certainly felt that way in my late twenties, um I had left consulting, I applied to business school, didn't get in. I ended up taking this job at a private equity firm that I really respected, and basically one week in knew that, like this was not a place where I

was going to be successful. The culture was so different from what I was used to and what I knew I was gonna you know, be happy in, and so I felt like I gave it a good try, but I I was so like miserable doesn't even begin to describe it. Like I was getting you know, I had nervous ticks. I would be like shaking in my seat.

I would get you know, kind of anxiety attacks thinking about having to go to work the next day, and I really I ran out of there, so, you know, I would say it was like one of the lowest moments of my professional confidence, I mean lowest moments of confidence period. And that was the way that that was really how MM started, you know, not not knowing what to do next with my life. It's really hard to

start a business. A lot of people think about it, like what were the first things that you actually tangibly did. I kind of started with the formalities, which in retrospect was somewhat silly, but I think it was important for me to feel like I was committing to it. So I um incorporated in Delaware and that somehow made it seem real. It was La Fleur LLLS and that was a surprisingly easy process and I was like, Okay, I'm

really doing this. And then I rented a tiny office space, which I gave up two months later because I realized I couldn't afford it. But it was when we work only had two buildings at that point, and I rented a small five dollar per month space and that actually got me out of the house every day, So that was a good thing. And that was actually the first kind of nearly logistical thing that I did. And then I just started talking to anybody who I thought knew

anything remotely about fashion design. And I really did not know anybody in this world of fashion design, and you know, just to kind of give you a sense of how much I didn't know, you know, the only way I could see myself getting connected to someone who worked in fashion design was through someone who had gone to school with who had gone on to interior design school at Risdy And I was like, well, that's that's a little

bit closer to fashion design. Maybe she'll know someone. And then she happened to know one person who went to the fashion department and connected me with her, and so she was like the first designer that I had actually spoken with, and she ultimately was the one who introduced me to a head hunter. Um. I knew that I wanted a co founder from the get go. I wanted someone with actual design expertise who had worked in the

high end fashion world. That was really really important to me because I wanted the clothing that we made at MM to really reflect the kind of clothes that you would get at a high end fashion brand. And so a lot of people said, why don't you just kind of why don't you just design it. Why don't you just you know, add a sleeve to a a theory dress or you know, take a I don't know, Georgio

Armani suit, but make it for cheaper. And I was like, no, no, no, you're you're kind of missing the point, Like there's a whole gap here in terms of what I'm looking for. I'm looking for clothing that is not only beautiful. Of course it has to be beautiful, but it has to be machine washable and wrinkled resistant and has to be super comfortable. And I never want to have to be, you know, pulling at the at the scenes to make sure things are fitting. Well. I'm really trying to create

something different. And so ultimately was through this head hunter that I met my co founder of Miaco. And she's actually also Japanese. I'm half Japanese. And people think that, you know, we we met through the japan connection, but but we actually met in the meatpacking district, like you know, that was we met through a headhunter. So that was probably like the next tangible step that I took. How did you convince her to take a leap with someone

who had never been in fashion before? She had had this illustrious career, been designing for zac pose in she was entrenched in the fashion war. Old was it a pitch you had to give her or was she sold right away? I think she was curious right away, And I think in retrospect, I really see, you know, it's it's all about kind of where you are in your life.

And I think if I had pitched pitched it to her any other time, she she very likely would have said no. She this was when I initially started talking to her. This is twenty eleven, so we were kind of coming out of the recession. But she saw a lot of her colleagues, um in the fashion world get

laid off. And she also saw a lot of you know, these fashion brands that you respected go under, And I think she was really she was going through her existential her own existential crisis, saying like why should I be in fashion? Like when everything out there has already been designed? What is there to make? And I think she also sensed the enormous waste that exists in the high and

fashion world. You spend months and months putting together these fashion shows that are you know, over and done in five minutes, and most of those clothes that end up on the runway are never to be seen again. And so when I came to her and said, like, look, there's this entire group of working women who think that everything out there right now doesn't meet their needs and and they want to be comfortable, and it's not like

they want to be fronty. You know, there's this like I think that when people think of American working women, you know, immediately it's like, um, working girl like sneakers and big shoulder jackets and like the last thing you think is fashionable, right, like that that the American women, working women like are typically not associated with style. And I was like, I think there's a real opportunity to change this, and um, are you interested? And she was like, yeah, okay,

I'm curious. And she always says to me, or she said to me since then she was like, apparently I said something along the lines of like, you know, I don't know, I really don't know anything in fashion, but I'm not stupid, so I'm confident that I will, I will figure it out as I go along, and she was like, okay, like why not, like why not take a chance on you? And so that that is how

it started. But I think it had to do with like where she was in her life and being kind of really curious about what was there a different way to operate a fashion business? And then how did you fund the business? Very haphazardly is how I would say it. So I, um, the first thing I had done actually

talking about one of the first things we did. I grew up in Japan's I had a bank account in in Japan that I had been putting some money away and and I called up my mother and I said, I want you to, you know, help me transfer it all into this business account. And she was like all and I was like yes, all, which I would not have the guts to do today. But I was twenty seven and you know, I didn't have kids, no mortgage, like, no responsibilities. I just had to worry about me. So

I was like, let's just go all in. And I had thirty six tho dollars saved up at that point, so it went all in, put that into Loffler LLC. And then I asked my parents if they'd be willing to lend me the same amount, so um they very kindly said yes. So we started with seventy two dollars in the bank account, and actually that got me through the first year of of hiring Miaco because her rate was ten thousand dollars to design a line of seven dresses.

I paid two thousand dollars to my head hunter because he always took a twenty cut, and I always say it's the best two thousand dollars I ever spent from this business. And then, you know, I think we spent like ten thousand dollars to buy the fabric. You know, we were going to launch with the line of seven dresses. And one of the best piece of advice that I got, and I still say this to um entrepreneurs who are looking to manufacture things today, is don't hold inventory if

you can. You know, just just have a sample and get orders against your sample, and then go and place the order because you never know what's going to sell or how much of it is going to sell, especially in the early days, and you never want to be stuck with that inventory. So what we did was we bought the fabric, and we brought seven dresses and we started doing these trunk shows and we took orders based on that, and then we would place the order at

one of the factories in the garment district. We had to beg to work with us. You know, it's just really interesting. I thought like, if you if you were willing to pay, anyone would take you on. But you know, no factory wants to take you on because they see, they see designers come and go, come and go all the time, and they need consistent revenue. So I you know, I said, I'll pay extra, so please please please take

white orders. And and and this this Korean gentleman agreed to manufactually these dresses for us, and then we would we would turn it around usually in two to three weeks

because we had the fabric. And then we would rent a zip car remember those, and then drive around the city and it would be me and my co founder, my other co founder and a reb She would be sitting in the passenger seat and we would drive around and she would jump out and you know, drop off the dress and then jumped back in the car again. And then and then we would you know, finish our day of delivery so like that was that was really

the early days of how we got started. But seventy thousand dollars actually got me through that kind of initial phase and it was only after that that we began. That's not even true the first five years. I think I was kind of collecting small checks as we went along.

I raised maybe four million in the first five years, and it wasn't until six So yeah, five years into the business that we actually closed our Series A. And it took a really long time just to put a pin in that because I think, you know, a lot of people who don't have experience with entrepreneurship, they read the news and they're like, oh, this company started and they raised the seed round and then they raised the Series A, and then they raised the Series B, and

people think there are these like discrete periods of time between doing that. But for you, it sounds like it was different. I know for me it's been different. For Sam, it's been different. But like you kind of just were always kind of raising as you're growing. I know people

think I'm not. People will say to me, you're raising again, and I'm kind of like, I never really stopped correct correct um and it was it was so funny because I think, you know, there were so many directed consumer brands that are that were cropping up at that time, you know, Wrby, Parker, Binovos, Everlane, and they would always announce these funding rounds, you know, like so and so closes X round, raises x million dollars. And I was like,

what the hell am I doing wrong? Like because I was like I was, I had a quote unquote seed round basically going for four years, so it was it was incredibly messy. But I think like the piece of advice that that I've got and I passed on is like, first of all, all cash is green, and there's something to be said about a lot of and you say it's friends and family, but like it I mean true. I think maybe I have like three true friends and

family on the cap table. Everyone else is like the friend of a friend of a friend and a lot of that, a lot of that capital is really um. In some ways, it's attractive because you know, they're they're supporters of you. They're not necessarily saying okay, like I'm expecting a twenty x return within a certain time period. Like in some ways, it's very flexible capital. So so

I got ample timed. I think actually like make mistakes and also go slowly in a way that I think when we got to our Series A, like we were really late to raise our Series A and we were told that as much, you know that our revenue was kind of beyond what would people would typically consider a Series A round. But you know, I think as a result, I got to maintain more control of the business. I think I had better handle what we were doing. So yeah,

it's I think there's there isn't such a formula. And I think this is especially true of female founded businesses. If you had to do it over again, would you have done the capital raising any differently? It's a really great question. I don't And I have to start by saying, like, I don't know how I could have done it differently. Like I was the first time entrepreneur um, most investors didn't want to touch fashion with a ten foot poll um. I had a really difficult time convincing vcs that this

was a business worth backing UM. And it really wasn't until like the revenue started to grow and UM the trajectory was was obvious that that people were saying, Okay, you know, I'm willing to take a chance. So also I would say I was I was young, and I was happy to live on a I mean happy is maybe a strong word, but you know, I was paying myself forty eight K a year UM, and then I was tutoring on the side, and I did that for two years to make ends meet, and I couldn't do that.

Now I've got three small kids and a mortgage and I now, you know, I used to never go to the doctor a doctor in my twenties, and now I go like seemingly pretty regularly. So like it's just interesting. Like now I would say I probably couldn't start a business without proper funding. And now a quick break. Another question about kind of the early days, as you really grew through trunk shows, how did you find the people

to host the trunk shows? A lot of friends, a lot of girlfriends who helped me, and then a lot of coworkers. Um. One of them, her name was Lucy to Land. She was the CEO at Paperless post Um and now she runs a VC. But she was a girlfriend from college and I think you know, she also ran a startup, so she just knew how important your your friends were and your network is in helping initially get your business off the ground. Um. So she said, you know, come post a trunk show in my house.

And her husband, I think, was at business school at that time, so she invited a bunch of his business old friends who remained some of our best customers to this day, you know, almost ten years later. Um, we did one in Washington, d C. Also hosted by like three of my college friends, and yeah, it was very much like friends coming out of the world works to support me. My very first customer was actually my first one of my first bosses at beIN UM, the management

consulting from I worked at. And also we you know, I also talked to a lot of women in their twenties were saying, I don't love my job. I'm trying to find the thing I'm actually passionate about. And I say, I totally understand that. You know, I've been there, but like, you know, do the best job that you can in the job that you're currently in, because you know that's going to lead to something else. And I have I've

really found that to be true. Um. You know that friends and colleagues from previous places have have really come to help me start the business. I love that advice because I think that work ethic is so pivotal. We always remember someone's work ethic. You don't necessarily remember whether they were the perfect fit for that job or how their career trajectory looked, but you do remember their work ethic. It's great advice for young people. You can shine anywhere, yeah,

for sure. And even if you know, you know, you kind of know, like, I'm not this is not really my thing. I'm not really like, this is not me at my best. But I have found that like just the connections that you make and hopefully you meet people you genuinely like and admire, regardless of what your job you're in, and those relationships have been so important to me, just like personally but but also professionally and growing. Um,

how have your sales evolved? Is that something that still keeps you up at night today or does it take care of itself at this point right now we are probably online are and we've gone through so many phases. You know, I would say brick and mortar or just meeting our customers in person was always a really really important part of our business. And so even though we said we were directed consumer, we didn't necessarily mean that we were e commerce only. Like our our stores and

our we call them show rooms. We have one in New York City and Brian Park and one in Washington, D C. But we had had I think nine you know, prior to to COVID, and unfortunately we had to close them all during the pandemic. And then we opened Washington d C. Up in the fall of which ended up being kind of a catastrophe because we're located two blocks from the White House and we couldn't even access our store for like six weeks around the insurrection. I mean,

it was it was madness. Um. So um, it's been a really really tough couple of years for brick and mortar retail. But we did open up our Brian Park show room in fall of twenty one, and then um, we're looking to open up three more of a zeer, so we're we're really leaning back into in person um retail stores. E Commerce is kind of the thing that

kept us going, you know, even through the pandemic. And we had this really really hard moment in the early days of the pandemic when you know, we really didn't understand what COVID was and there was this big decision point. We had just closed all of our stores, we had furloughed all of our retail employees, and we had to make a decision about whether to keep the warehouse open. And I knew that if we close the warehouse, our sales would go to zero. You know, we literally wouldn't

be able to ship anything out. We would have to furload the entire company. Or we could keep the warehouse going and at least bring any eCOM sales um And we decided to go with the ladder and tried to take as many precautions as we possibly could to keep our our warehouse team safe. You know that that those were kind of like the real challenges that we were going through in the early days of the pandemic. And so Sam to your question about like sales do they

take care of themselves? They never take care of themselves. I would love to be in a place where I was like, you know what, there's just like recurring revenue on a daily basis, But like I, I and the rest of my team, you know, we're watching their numbers like a hawk. And um, it's just it's fascinating also how much what's going on in the world affects your numbers, you know, Roe v way that decision came out and frankly,

the weekend that followed terrible for sales. And you know, whenever there's bad news in and the recession is certainly looming, and so that's that's kind of a real risk that that we're facing. But I also think like that's actually one of the fun Maybe too strong a word, but I think, yeah, I guess I would call it fun. There there's a there's an element of like, okay, you always have to react to what's going on, and like retail,

you can actually be quite nimble. You know, you can come up with new tactics, new marketing pushes, new price changes, new promotions, like there are actually so many levers at your disposal. And I think one of the reasons I never get tired of of um, never get tired is maybe the right word. I never board, Yeah, never get bored of running a retail businesses because it keeps you

on your toes constantly, constantly, constantly. How did the pandemic changes in fashion impact you now that everything has become more casual. I mean, we saw it in our own dressing behavior in the very beginning you know, we just we And then La Flair was very much a company that was a dressing women who went to the office, who were in places where they were being seen and had to look presentable. And I don't necessarily mean just

like people who were lawyers and bankers. I mean I think anyone really like anyone who had a professional job who had to dress a certain way. And I mean I don't even remember this about myself in the early pandemic days, Like I just stopped wearing makeup. I was like, who the f cares? Like, I'm just like and you know, it was the very early days, and and we saw, you know, consumer demand obviously drop, and there was this moment where we were like, what is the point of

MM in this new world? Like does our is our business even relevant? And I think for the first two to three months I was really unsure. And I think actually as the pandemic went on, we started to hear from customers. There were a few things that we did kind of just at the get go. We we had these like perfect travel pants. We called them the Colby Origami suiting pants. But actually I kept on wearing them

in the early days of the pandemic. Because they had this elastic waste band and they it was like made from this like super comfortable fabric, and so I was like, you know what if we named these the Colby Joggers instead of this origami shooting pants, and sales grew by eight x just based on that name change, you know,

and and just positioning things differently. Yeah, So that was really wild, and we just started making small, small tweaks like that, because I think we were always proud of the fact that our clothes were meant to be comfortable, Like even even if they were meant, you know, to be clothes that you were going to be seen, and they were always meant to be comfortable. So I think a lot of it was like could we just reframe

them in a different way? And customers reacted really really well to that, and I think as time went on, we said like, Okay, what is actually the new way that women are going to be dressing? Because you know, I think to your to my earlier point of like, you know, what is the point of mm A lot of the angst that I think women and people in general feel about getting dressed. It's not as though that

that disappeared with COVID you know. In fact, I think what we're hearing a lot now is like I have now gone hybrid, and I don't know what tressing for a hybrid work environment looks like. Or I have a lifestyle now where I'm in the office, I'm working from home in the morning, but then I go into the office in the afternoon and everyone's saying that we can dress a little more casually, but I don't actually know what that means. And so We're getting a lot of questions.

And I think MM was always created to solve this problem. And I would say, like a lot of it is angst. You know, we talk about women on average spending two more weeks per year versus men getting ready in the morning, which is crazy, right, It's like what would you do with that two weeks? But it's not as though like suddenly that two weeks was given back to all women because of COVID. Like I think, actually, if anything, women

are just as dressed. Um. You know, I'm speaking also for myself, but like a lot of women put on weight during the pandemic, and so like like how do I dress? You know, do I buy new clothes or do I buy things that kind of like conflex with your size, and so you know, as a business, the direction we've been leaning into, we're calling it power casual, and that's really a lot of customers who were dressing business casual. We're saying, actually the new look is power casual.

So you know, if you've got business formal being kind of the most formal way of dressing and suiting, and then you've got business casual a little more, you know, dressed down, and then you've got like casual all the way at the bottom. Then power casual is this like new things somewhere in between business casual and creative casual where you want to show that like you're looking, you're looking ready to get down to business. Your your there

and you're presentable. But it's it's flexible. It's clothes that you could also be going out to um drinks with your friends in or picking up your kids from school in. Like it doesn't look like, oh, she was at the office and she just like walked over here. So that's the look that we are pushing forward and really talking to our customers about and it's really allowed our business to rebound and grow again. And you know what I'm focused on for twenty two and beyond and now a

quick break. What was there ever a time where you thought the business might fail multiple times? Yeah? How did you find inspiration or whatever you needed to push through those moments? They're scary. It honestly just felt like one it's a cliche of one foot in front of the other.

But like I think if I knew if someone had like like tapped my shoulder and on in like March twenty and it said like, hey, you know, I know everyone's saying like this is going to be like a two week thing or maybe a three month thing, but actually, like you're not going to even get close to normal for another two and a half years. Good luck. I think I would have just been like, well, that's it, Like I don't have it in me, Like I call

it it quits. But like, you know, this is about like I think, the human spirit being incredibly resilient, and when you're actually just like in it day to day, you're like, well, I just have to keep going like there is no other option, and so we so we did, and my I have to say, like I have a really I have a team that I love. A lot of them have been with me for a really really

long time. Now, you know we're talking five plus years. Um, I think the majority of our team has been with us for five plus years, and so yeah, I mean I felt like I owed it to them to really see it through because they were willing to stick it through, you know. I mean, it's it was such a hot job market still is. They could have they could have gotten a job in so many other places, but I felt like they kept showing up, and so I had

to too. You talked about how clubby the garment center manufacturing world can be, but fashion is just as clubby. Has the fashion industry accepted you. I think they honestly don't know what to do with us, and who's I have? I think I we have been very lucky to receive a couple of awards by fashion groups, but whenever we went to um the kind of award ceremony, they would be like who are you, Like we've never heard of you know, where do you sell through? And we're like,

just correct and they're like what's you know? Like you're not like what departments are you with or like you know where do you advertise? Like again, like I'm actually specifically remembering this one award that we got where we were sitting at a table with like a bunch of publishers, because that's you know, it's basically the old school network is like publishers, department stores, and fashion brands. It's like

that's the that's the world that you operated and if anything. Actually, I remember when I first when we were first launching, I met I got to meet with an editor um who had been I can't even remember, but she was at you know, I can't Harper's Revover, one of those very well established fashion magazines, and she looked at my dress and she was like, but that's so boring, Like what would I what would I have to say about that dress? And I was I was really hurt by

that comment. But I you know, I think in retrospect, I understand she was. You know, for with magazines, it's like they want things that are flash, flashy and I catchy, catching,

and and something being practical. You know, something is like, oh, it's a sheath dress that's machine washable and wrinkle resistance, has pockets, just like nah, it's like so not sexy, right, Like, so I felt like I got written off by the fashion world where I had you know, I was like, well, they're not gonna they're not gonna want anything to do with us, and we're gonna have to just like pave our own way. And I think to some extent that is that is um, that's been a fine strategy for us.

I do have this job, this this dream though, and because now apparently it's all about us manifesting it, I'm just going to put it out there, which is I really do want. I want Miako to win a c f d A one day, and she is someone who is so deserving of that. You know, she is such an amazing uh lee talented designer and actually so also intelligent. She's not just artistic, you know, she's really thinking about, Okay, what are her problems and how am I going to

try to solve them? And so I'm just gonna say this. You know, Anna Wintour, if you're listening, I want you to take a look at Miako Nakamura. Stay tuned for part two of our two part series with sarah La Floor. Sometimes we have a guest that just warrants two episodes. We'll be talking about her infertility issues, her wildly unexpected childbirth outcome, her parenting journey, and we also give Sarah some parenting advice on how to manage the three kid

or in Amy's case, four kid juggle. Thanks for listening to What's Her Story with Sam and Amy. We would appreciate it if you leave her review wherever you get your podcasts, and of course, connect with us on social media at What's Her Story podcast. What's Her Story with Sam and Amy is powered by my company, The Riveter at the Riveter dot c O and Sam's company, park Place Payments at park place Payments dot com. Thanks to our producer Stacy Parra and our male perspective Blue Burns