Undetermined — Libby Caswell E2

Originals.

This is an iHeart original. This story can be hard to hear. There's detailed talk of suicide and violence, but we think it's important not to gloss over the reality of what happened to Libby Caswell. Please take care while listening. I'm holding in my hands a green spiral notebook that Libby used to document the last few months of her life. I got it from her mom, Cindy, who found it in the trunk of Libby's car after her death. Thumbing through the notebook, a lot of the pages are filled

They went with his family. They had a real nice blue minivan. First they went to eat, and then they went and seen a movie. And I don't remember the movie.

Well, I think we went to see Where the Wild Things Are.

That's Jamie, Devin's stepmom.

Oh.

We were howling like the wild things do at the end movie in the theater, and I remember Devin being so embarrassed. I remember him telling me and Charlie the Dax's who he was going to marry at fourteen years old, and we were like, you know, you're so young, and da, da, dad, you have so much to go through, And you know, then it all started.

That first date Libby and Devon were only freshmen in high school. For the next six years, the number three nineteen took on an almost sacred significance to Libby, who scrawled it everywhere like an incantation.

She would do doodles you know of three nineteen eleven Devin and Libby.

Devin loves Sleepy, Laby loves Devon is a fun through win.

So what she was totally infatuated, however you want to say it, totally wrapped up in it.

The number three nineteen has an entirely different connotation to Cindy now, one very far removed from those early idyllic feelings of obsession and puppy love, because now that number is inextricably linked with the room where police found Libby's body, the room at the sports stadium in.

I didn't know anything about the room until we received our first reports, and then when I saw that, that's when I was like, oh my god, it was it was room three nineteen.

Maybe Devon rented that room.

They specifically asked for that room because of something. Maybe it was random. They just got that room, you know, I wanted to know.

Watch from iHeart Podcasts. I'm Melissa Jelson, and this is what happened to Libby Caswell.

His first inclination was it was homicide.

He was crying and I said, and I was like, man, what happened?

They asked me my name and it was I Cindy Caswell and tuck him.

A minute to get it out of it, and he said, my wife upon herself and.

My heart just kind of froze.

Watch God see chapter two undetermined.

Then undetector Shirley raised department put so.

Forrmonia, Yeah, okay, once you want to detect his head in Okay to his apartment.

On the evening of December eleventh, twenty seventeen, three hours after calling nine one one to report Libby's death and then leaving the scene, Devon Martin arrives at the Independence Police Department in Libby's car. When he enters the station, he's taken into a small, drab room to make a formal statement. Although he comes involuntarily, he's immediately arrested on a handful of outstanding traffic tickets and read his rights.

You have right ring silent. Anything you say cannot be used. Mansion a courterwall. You eight to talk to him. Thirty fourth question and have him president.

I obtained a video of Devin's interview with IPD through a Freedom of Information Act request. The original tape is around fifty five minutes long, but for length and clarity purposes, I'm using just parts of it and playing some of it out of order. In the grainy footage, Devin looks upset. He's sweating, jittery, and doesn't seem to know what to do with his hands. He thrust them into the front pocket of his hoodie. He rubs his face.

Let's start from the beginning, Okay. Like I said, I want you to be detailed. Wants to be honest, Okay, because I mean this is a deafitty. Have slow take death investigations with her seriously, okay, and what I need how.

To use the honest.

Detective Steve Schmidley had been at the motel earlier in the night investigating the scene when Devin called nine one one for the second time to say he'd talked to police, so Schmidley headed back to the station to interview him. And here he refers to Libby by her full name, Elizabeth Caswell.

She's Elizabeth Caswealthy. I'm doing that son's daughter. Bring to get married in March.

Devin's voice is soft, like he's on the verge of tears. It's a little hard to understand what he's saying, but he tells the detective he and Libby have a child together and they were going to get married in three months time.

Would you guys get would you check into this.

Mot Devin tells Detective Schmidley that he arrived at the sports stadium in early that morning. He was with Libby and another friend of theirs, Nick, and they were driving in Libby's car, a black forward fusion. Some of this, like what time they checked in, police already know from accessing motel records, but establishing a timeline of events that day is critical, as police aren't sure exactly when Libby died.

You get there this morning, what do you guys do most of day?

Okay, So my friend Nick hung out with us until about maybe maybe eighty nine o'clock in the morning, eight thirty when they left and I took a shower and.

I get out of the shower, and she said she was going to take a shower.

And I remember because we had been up all night the night before, and I remember laying on the bed and passing out, but fell asleep and I probably woke up, and it.

Was it's probably around eight thirty I think roughly.

What time do you think you fell asleep on the beat, I would say between ten and eleven o'clock ten am and eleven am this morning, and then at that point you were maimed asleep the entire times that you woke up this evening.

Sir Devin says he was asleep for more than eight hours and when he woke up, he noticed Libby wasn't around, and I.

Remember looking she went in the room.

So I went to take the bathroom and my belt was the top of it takes to my belt sitting out at the top of the door. And when I opened the door, she fell forward and picked her up, and her thin was so pale and.

Her lips were blue.

I'm sorry, man, that's okay.

Ryan, Oh, I can't believe this, No, this is real.

Devin gets emotional here. He's just told Schmidley that he woke up, looked around for Libby and saw his belt peeking out from the top of the closed bathroom door. When he opened the door, Libby's body fell to the ground. The detective leans back, taking it all in, then starts to recap, but Devon interrupts to tell him about something else that happened right before he went to sleep.

Him you got in the shower and you went to bed, and we had the orde about my drug use. That's what we argue about. That was this morning before you went to bed.

Yeah, right, I.

Forget out a shower.

This is information that IPD had already gathered. One of the cops spoke to a guest staying in the room next door who heard a loud argument between a man and a woman. According to Devon, their fight was over his continued use of methamphetamine. Drugs were a constant source of tension between the couple. Schmidley doesn't seem very surprised to learn about Devn's drug use, and it's likely this

I didn't think she would ever do it.

You know, she was probably without killing herself the day before, but it was like she okays a lot of times when she says.

That, you know, I don't.

So she talked about killing herself today because the work. Yeah, yes, why just because of our situation she set up with.

We have boss Christy and our son Ashley. I stay at christ the other but he presides with her mother, and we were going to get everything strange.

Not still, the custody situation with their son was complicated, and I'll get to it later. But the picture Devin paints of Libby is of a depressed mother, forcibly separated from her son and frustrated by her boyfriend's drug problem. Devin's story provides a reason why Libby might have taken her own life. Then he offers up his own theory

I'm really trying to understand it all because there's no way she going to hurt herself from the door, you know, Like howter she's hung there with my belts long.

Have been on the dround.

It's an odd fact. I've puzzled over it too, But Devin had an answer for Detective Schmidley.

So I've been sitting kind of thankfully we're gonna how could it have happened?

I'm taking maybe she put it in the door and like chi until.

She passed out, because went out opened the door, she fell forward.

Devin later tells the detective this is something he'd seen Libby do before, put a belt around her neck and pretend like she was strangling herself.

I mean when they were younger, and so she would have like you know, we in arguments up and she would.

Have like she's chunking herself with the belt.

Actually, Detective Schmidley asked Stephen what he did after he found Libby's body.

Graded her.

I didn't notice the belt but around her neck until after I'd pulled her apartment and she was so sick.

So I'm sorry.

Now you're fine, You're fine.

So poor baby?

Well, oh man, So what do you do at that point?

Oncebably you assume okay, they break it out.

I just same Tuesday.

I try to undo the belt a little bit where I keep Field close to something and I think I'm taking too much and cut it. Okay, Fields, So I cold mourn. How are your shock? And I got in the car and I went to my dad.

Devin's explanation. He was in shock, so he drove to his dad's. It might sound bizarre, but in my experience as a journalist covering traumatic events, people can act in all kinds of unexpected ways. You don't really know how you'll respond to a tragedy until it happens to you. You may think you'll become act rationally, but when was the last time you found a dead body? Schmidly, in any case, seems to listen to this story without much judgment.

You see how this looks suspicious at it. That's why I'm here.

That's why I'm here, you know.

By this point in the interview, Devon has been sitting inside a small interrogation room for about forty minutes. This is what IPD has learned so far. Devin and Libby and another friend, nick checked into the sports stadiumen early that morning. After nick Le, Devin and Libby fought about his drug use. Devon went to sleep sometime that morning and Libby headed into the shower. Devin woke up around eight pm, walked over to the bathroom and saw the end of his belt sticking out over the top of

D See how this looks suspicious, Devin, just by you leaving?

Yeah, yeah, that's why I'm here. That's why I'm here.

You know, I don't want to.

We've investigated a lot of definitely I mean detecta Schmidley and I.

You know, we have a lot of experience, and some are very.

Obvious suicidal you know, suicide deaths, and some are not so obvious.

Absolutely, and Jaran Man, I promise you I would not I would not ever do anything to harm her physically. I would prevent her from being harmed physically with my.

Now, there is going to be an autosy, you know that they can.

Determine absolutely, and how would actually get the results?

When do you think that autosy, of course, is going to indicate because she had trained herself.

You see how it's kind of suspicious.

A little bit because we have witnesses say that you are arguing with her.

That day and like I said we had gotten into an argument that morning. Okay, I would not do nothing to her in my.

Wife, I understand.

I'm not trying to say you're a tout.

I just I'm trying to explain expressed that you.

And I understand that.

I just want to I just want you to know that that it's just a little suspicious.

Of how you reacted, which you know most people would stick around.

Look to be honest with you, I've never had a good incouterance police stand.

Devin is twenty one at the time of this interview, and he's no stranger to IPD. By my account, he had been arrested around ten times before for various nonviolent offenses.

You've got to understand that we have a job to do and it's not personal.

But when we have several different factors involving this investigation which are suspicious in nature, which you know, I mean, I understand your drug ucision everything, but the whole argument thing, and then just the way that she was positioned.

As far as well, that's because I think they're okay, and that's.

Why you're here to explain some of those things that we feel that are suspicious nature.

Yeah, our flights are loud realize it well, obviously.

Because people heard you.

The second detective pushes Devin about a claim he made earlier in the interview that Libby choked herself in the past. Something about this story seems off to him, like maybe it's a little too convenient, so he circles back to it.

But she's tried to choke herself out with a belt before.

Yeah, yeah, and I've had to literally pulled.

Her, pull her hand off and hit the belt out from around her night and yeah, and that is the honest truth.

I mean, do you see And and I've investigated a lot of dancer, but I've never seen anybody be able to choke themselves.

Out and kill themselves.

That's what.

Yeah, you see what I'm saying because you're going to pass out?

Yes, Cerre first, Yes, Okay, Honestly, I want to see if I don't know what exactly, how it.

Hap m hm.

So let me ask you a question of it.

Okay, There's no doubt in my mind that.

You love her to death. There's no doubt in.

My mind that you guys, you know, were high grade school, middle school to high school sweethearts.

Okay, but to put this to rest a little bit.

It's something bad happened that thanks got out of controls positive that prompts I.

Doubt help put my hand on the Bible and I'll put it all and everything I love, all my children on my son's life.

I would not never do nothing like that.

Never. Okay what I.

Heard in mind that.

I don't.

I hope you guys do believe me.

If you don't, everything forensics figures out will prove me that I have.

I wanted to call y'all and I.

Would just lived. And you know so I wouldn't have done that is worth.

The truth is.

Beyond denying any involvement in Libby's death. Devon is adamant that he'd never heard her before.

I've never put I act a pride in the fact that I've never put money into on to the woman unless you to.

Stop her from hurt me.

Yeah, and that's like hold her down.

Stay. Urge is to call there. That's the only thing I've ever done that the girl.

As the second detective said to Devin, some suicides are straightforward, some are not. In Libby's case, there were a lot of suspicious facts at play, but Devin seems to have explanations for all of them. The weird position of Libby's body was because he held her and tried to loosen the belt. He left the scene because he was scared of the cops and had been using drugs. And yes they had an argument, but that's just how their relationship

It was just you and Devin Ellis, but their okay, any issues?

No, I mean, she is like very like that's a just stressed about herself. She's just like very depressed. She's dressed under brass. So she was talking about to hitting the suicide and I was like, no, you.

Know, when did she talk about comment Suicideamorian?

And I told her.

He was like, you know, want to do that? I talked to her about her kid.

Nick corroborates most of Devon's story and adds something new. He tells Detective Schmidley that Devin called him after finding Libby's body. Nick then returned to the motel and the two drove together in Libby's car to Devn's dad's house. Schmidley wraps up the interview and sends him on his way.

The only question they asked the night they knocked on our door to tell us our daughter was found in a motail bathroom. Was she suicidal.

The case isn't officially closed that night, though, IPD has to wait for the medical examiner to make his own determination on how Libby died. As one of the detectives told Devin, there's going to be an autopsy and that should give everyone more answers.

Right, they were going to set aside a room for us to come and be with her and say her goodbyes, and we could stay as long as we wanted.

A few days after Libby's death, Cindy and her family were given the opportunity to see Libby's body in private at the funeral home. They planned to do a cremation and service for Libby, but wanted a moment alone with her. First years later, Cindy's grief is still so raw it's hard for her to speak.

And she just looked so beautiful, you know. They had had done her makeup and combed her hair, and she wasn't, you know, dressed in anything fancy. It was just, you know, she was wrapped in a blanket up up under her arms and her arms were folded and her head was like it was on a pillow. I talked to her and I told her I'm sorry that I couldn't protect her and loved her, and then we just kind of

Cindy told me that Libby always liked to have her nails nicely done. She was wearing light orange acrylics at the time of her death, but at the funeral home, Libby's hands looked raggedy. There was a cut on one finger and two of her acrylics were broken off roughly.

I got my phone out, I took a picture of the scratches on her arm, hidden her fingernails.

Why did you decide to document it yourself?

I didn't know if you know, if they had documented that stuff. So I just decided I would.

Seeing Libby's body in that state unsettled Cindy, and so later when she got home, she decided she would look through Libby's car to see what she could find. Devin and Nick had been the last ones to drive Libby's car after her body was discovered. They later returned it to police, and Cindy got the car back the following day. It had been so in her driveway ever since. From the outside, the car was newly dented, the windshield cracked, the dashboard loose.

She was so proud of that car. I was just devastated that her car was in the condition it was because she took such good care of her car. It was always clean and smelled nice, and so it was all very just kind of shocking kind of devastation, you know. I just felt so heavy. I thought, how did this come to this?

Cindy had been too distraught to look inside the car until now, and what she found surprised her in the crevice of the seat, an orange acrylic fingernail. She stared at it for a moment, thinking about Libby, her body, the police investigation.

I thought, well, they must have missed this fingernail, you know, or I had no idea what I was, why that would be there, And I was naive. It wasn't till much later, and I thought, why would they not search the car?

Cindy told me she was under the impression that the investigation into Libby's death was ongoing. Two months went by while she waited for an update from the IPD.

We tried to call several times to speak with someone, and we never got a hold of anybody, and we would just leave voicemails. We just didn't understand why they just wouldn't talk to us.

On February twentieth, twenty eighteen, Cindy received her first big piece of news in the case, not from one of the detectives she'd been trying to reach at IPD, but in a letter from the funeral home. Inside was Libby's death certificate. The autopsy was complete. The police received the autopsy report around the same time Cindy got the death certificate. Here's Major Anka, one of the officers who worked on Libby's case.

We had gotten the report back from the medical examiner. I can remember I've sitting in my office and Smili came in and he was beside himself and said, the medical examiner ruled Libby's death undetermined. I go, what do you mean they ruled undetermined? He goes, yeah, they ruled it undetermined. That was something that really caught us off guard because when we get a you know, all of our medical examiner reports they come back suicide, homicide, national causes.

When we received the death certificate and read undetermined, it was like, you know, affirmation for me. I can't say relief, you know, because there's no relief, isn't that But in that feeling of Okay, we know she didn't do that, but now there's this horrible reality, you know that the person she trusted to protect her, you know, potentially did it to or her.

Cindy was suspicious of Devon, and rumors were circulating in Independence that there was more to the story than he was letting on. Devon had been released the morning after he was interviewed by police, and as we heard earlier this episode, he had been hoping the autopsy report would clear his name.

Wouldn't you think that to any Kate Train other stuff?

But the autopsy report didn't clear Devon undetermined didn't roll out homicide, but it didn't roll out suicide either. It just meant the medical examiner couldn't really figure out how Libby died. It meant that the Independent's police department should be looking at other evidence to figure out what happened to Libby.

I was confident that they would launch a full investigation at that point.

Specifically, she thought they would focus on Devon.

I hope they would be looking at his story and corroborating what his story was.

But that's not what happened. Instead, the IPD told Cindy the case was closed despite the medical examiner's ruling.

In my mind, I go, well, I'm thinking, isn't this backwards. Isn't the emmy who decides if he doesn't sign suicide, don't they police do an investigation?

You know?

And that is when that was my first time that I thought something's not right here.

After the interview with Devin Martin the night of Libby's death. IPD did very little to corroborate Devn's story that Libby was suicidal, beyond talking to his friend Nick.

No, I mean, she was like very like just stressed about herself. She was just like very depressed.

And on Devon's other claim that he'd never laid a hand on Libby, I.

Would not ever do anything to harm her physically. I would prevent her from being born physically with life my neither.

IPD made no attempt to interview those who knew Libby and Devin best, who could speak to the intimate details of their relationship, which maybe would not have been that unusual in another case with different circumstances, except for the fact that inside the ipd's own files were records of over a dozen nine one one calls involving the couple.

They had so much information about domestic violence between the two of them.

They had it in their hands.

They knew that.

So when I opened up the door, I seen Devin was on top of it and he was choking her, and I got upset. I went out to the Independent Police Department where it occurred, and I just told them what I had witnessed.

That's next time on What Happened to Libby Caswell? From I Think That Did, from the Rain and Until Keep You heard of the Grown.

Don't Me?

What Happened to Libby Caswell is written, reported, and hosted by me Melissa Jelson, with writing and story editing by Marisa Brown and Lauren Hanson. Episodes are edited by Jeremy Thal and Carl Catle. Our executive producer is Ryan Murdoch. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are Jason English and Katrina Norvel, with our supervising producer Carl Catle. Fact checking by Maya Shukre. Our theme song is written by Aaron Kaufman and performed

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