The Fed Is Playing a ‘Dangerous Game’

the hyst in more than fifteen years. Meanwhile, just about everyone is convinced that at least a mild recession is on the horizon. So what on earth are you supposed to do with your money at a time like this. We'll get into it with the chief market strategist of a major investment company, But first, fill Donna, just get it out of your system. I I know what you want to do with your money. You want to bet on the Buffalo bills forever, at least at least gloat

about the Buffalo bills. So get it out of your system. Go ahead. I'm not going to gloat. I'm a very superstitious person, so I need good karma, so no gloating on on my end. However, Josh Allen is a superhuman. Did you watch the game? He's pretty good? Yeah, I watched. I watched most of it. I uh, did you see him jump over that man? He jumped over a man? Who does that? He jumped like eight feet into the air that I can barely jump over a small child.

How a woman who grew up where you grew up is not an Eagles fan or at least a Giants are Jets fan? I would I would even allow Giants or Jets. No, your tongue not giants, No, no, no, yeah, no Eagles. I'm with you on the Eagles, definitely. Uh. And I'm rooting for them. I'm happy that they're doing well. But the Bills are so fun to watch. Was your husband lured you into the Bills name? Yeah he's from Buffalo, Yeah, he's from Well you're you're a good wife. My wife

is an Eagles fan too. There's no way I could have lured her away from the Eagles of fire. I have an Eagles jersey. Of all the games I've been to in my life, the majority of them were Eagles games. All Right, there you go, I'll give you that. How many folding tables are left in your apartment right now. Oh. None, none, They've all been broken through. They've all been broken by Bills fans. Yeah, Wills fans has set themselves on fire and then jumped through tables as as one does. Yes,

we have a guest here with us. We should bring her in. Christina, who per chief Global Market Strategy, said Investco, thank you so much for joining us, Thank you for having me. Christina might be a Jets or a Giants fan, but well we'll leave that for another coming. All right, spell the beans, Christina, who's your team? The next, the next, the nick It's like it's like um poo petually being in the seventh circle of hell. That's good. I didn't want to say anything. I didn't want to say anything.

But you definitely develop an important skill, uh, in terms of patience and persistence and and constant optimism, or else you would just exactly else, you would just lose your mind. That's a buy and hold franchise, I guess for sure.

But Christina, markets have been very interesting in the last couple of days, and I was hoping to just start out with you're talking about what it's been like to be a part of this market, to be watching this market and everything that we've seen going on where we have these you know, stretches of days where it's up

two percent, down two down. It's just very volatile. It's incredibly volatile, and yet in a way it makes sense given that we have this one key driver of markets this year, and it's been the FED and really the just dramatically shifting expectations around what the Fed is going to do. The FED has even surprised itself. You know, if we look at the dot plot from December of one, they thought they'd be at ninety basis points at the end of two. Now they think as of the September

dot plot they'll be at four forty basis points. That to me is monetary policy whiplash. And those kinds of surprises are are why we see the volatility, not just in stocks, but in bonds. You know, Christine, I know a lot of people were hoping that at least we get some diversion from the FED focused during earning season, and it seemed like, you know, the first couple of earlier reporters, uh really sort of reignited some of the bullish instincts in the market, and that's why we saw

some some really big gains. What are you looking out for an earning season? Uh? What have you learned so far? Um? You know, is there enough meat on the bone and earnings to to maybe overpower that fed uh fixation in the market. Great questions, so, and great questions. So let me start at the beginning. What I've learned so far? Um? First of all, it has been you know, fairly focused on financials thus far. UM. What we've learned is that

consumers and businesses are in pretty good shape. Right. We've heard that from multiple bank uh CEO s is that that the consumers in good shape, businesses are in good shape UM. And and that certainly is a positive in terms of being able to weather economic headwinds, but it is a negative in that the FED doesn't seem to have cool demand very much. UM. We also know financial conditions are tightening. We're hearing that, we're seeing it in the data bank banks are providing in terms of, you know,

the average FICO score for people they're giving mortgages to. UM. So fundamentals are are solid, um. But but clearly lenders are becoming increasingly discerning UM, which is what the FED wants to see. And we've also heard from a few airlines UM, one major airline saying that that the summer was very strong and they don't think that the demand

for travel that thirst has been quenched yet. UM. So So you know, as I as I process the earnings reports, I'm I'm beyond just the earnings results, which have been relatively positive. You know, my takeaways are that the FED hasn't necessarily achieved UM what it wants to uh yet and so we could be in store for for a fair number more rate hikes UM given this environment, Christina and I ask you, we used to think about the earning season as as a stretch of time that will

give us clarity on things that are going on. Can we make that same case this time around? Or is it so much that there's so much uncertainty with the FED, the macrol look, etcetera, that the earning season really even can't be giving us as much clarity as you might have in the past. I think that's true to a certain extent. I mean, let's think about it. You know, earning season and j general UM is backward looking. What

we can glean about the future comes from UM. What is shared on the earnings calls um to the extent that management teams are willing to provide an outlook, and I think it is UM far less clear because they don't know where the FED funds rate is going to go from here, and they really don't know how much damage has been done thus far, because it takes some time UM for that to actually make its way into the main street economy and and show up in data

and certainly show up in their results. So I think the question remains, you know, when is that other shoe going to drop? Visa V earnings? Now, for some industries it could very well drop this quarter, but but for others it might not be this quarter, It might be next or beyond. So what do you think we need to see to get uh either not necessarily even a full pivot from the Fed. I think you know, a lot of people would be happy with just sort of a go back to a fifth year basis point at

rate hike. But what what really where do you need to see that inflation start to cool off? I'm guessing is it the shelter and rent costs? Is that the Is that the main issue that's still front and center for them? Do you think, well, I think that's certainly one key issue for them, but beyond that, I mean, what we're seeing is a labor market that remains very tight, and so that's showing up on the services side of the economy, UM, that's showing up in in the wage

growth we've seen thus far. So you know, the FED, I think, is looking at the economy through a Phillips curve lens, and it believes it needs to achieve a certain level of unemployment in order to see inflation moderate UM. I would argue that doesn't have to be the case, though, given this unique market environment where we have just such a high level of job openings. Even after the last Jolts report, we still have more job openings than there

are people to fill them. And so if we were to see a major slashing of job openings, that reduces labor mobility. Uh and and so that goal of of moderating wage growth UM could potentially be achieved without having very significant layoffs, without having a very substantial increase in unemployment.

So can you talk about what you foresee from the Fed in the coming months, because we have the FED minutes come out, but recently it was just last week, and then also we had a report from Bloomberg, where one of my colleagues actually looked through the minutes and found I guess it was some detail that others hadn't noticed, saying that FED officials were worried that the that we were coming off of an extremely hot economy and that that means that potentially they would be tightening for more

aggressively or for for longer than previously thought. So what are you expecting from the Fed? Well, certainly the most recent fo MC minutes, UM, we're not dubvish by any stretch of the imagination. I think people held, you know, people um anchored to that statement about a few participants worrying that um, they were moving too quickly, they'd need to calibrate because of of the delayed impact on the economy.

But in general, I think what the FED is telling us is that inflation is not just job number one, it's job number one, number two, number three, UM, and that dual mandate really that that other part of the dual mandate is is really getting going being put on the back burner, um on the way way back burner, as if focuses on inflation. So that says to me that the FED will definitely high rates seventy five basis points in November, UM, and I think seventy five basis

points is on the table for December as well. I think that's a very real um uh likelihood, especially given you know some of the recent statements we've gotten UM arguing that UH that you know, the FED wants to front load rate hikes like the Bank of Canada. Well, you know, I thought we were like in the sixth

or seventh inning when it comes to rate hikes. So to hear they're still talking about front loading UM causes a little concern and does raise questions about when when this finally comes to an end or even just eases somewhat. You know, Christina, you mentioned the notion of the Fed uh tightening until it breaks something, And it seems like at the moment it's pretty close to a consensus that the US is going to slide into at least a shallow recession next year. UM. But I also look at

the market. You know, SMP five down as much as and change percent from its high nas Doock index is down even more in the thirties of percentages. With everybody bracing for this recession, I mean, are we in one of these crazy scenarios where the market is so far ahead of the economy that it's it's mostly all been priced in or almost all priced in. And if we do get that slow down, that, uh you know, we'll see that sort of contrarian instinct kick in and we'll

get a rally in the equity market. You think it's the worst priced in? Do you think? I don't think it's all priced in, but I do think some is priced in. I mean, what we've seen this year is a multiple contraction. I'm driven by the rise in the ten year yield um? But has you know, has earnings disappointment been fully priced in? Probably not, because we don't know the extent of the impact earnings, because we don't

know the path of rate hikes from here. Uh So I think that there's that level of uncertainty that that makes it hard to price in. And uh to me, I think there's the potential for another leg down. Are we going to go down as as much as we have of thus far? No? I highly doubt that, UM, but I do think we could see another five to seven percent drop too before we get to the point UM where it's priced in and and where we're ready to perhaps begin a bowl market, um that is anticipating

in economic recovery. And why has it been so difficult to price things into the market this year? Is it just because we have this discrepancy between what's going on with the labor market and what's happening with inflation in the Fed. Yeah, in a word, it's it's uh, seventy is the new twenty five. When you're raising rates in seventy five bases point increments UM, and you're not giving any time to for it to process through and make its way through the day into the data. UM, you're

playing a dangerous game. And the more you're doing it, um, the more likelihood uh you create of having a recession and a significant recession. So I think that is is what's behind us. I think there's a lot of uncertainty and and and as you point out, there's uncertainty around inflation and where that goes from here. It's been stubbornly high. Christina. You know when you say seventy five is the new careful, you're setting Villdon off for a joke about my age.

You know, I can't say anything. Yeah, yeah, right, of course, Christina. You know, Investco's a huge company, famous for a lot

of things, a lot of different investment strategies. UM. But I think if you do like a name association with a lot of people, they'll go right to the q q Q, you know, the Nasdaq one hundred, uh et F. I think you know a lot of people that I've talked to, I've always gotten the sense that once we got through the other side of the pandemic, when interest rates normalize, growth normalizes, and and life becomes more or like it was pre pandemic, that we once again see

that instinct to buy big growth tech uh. You know, really the main companies in the in the q q Q E t F. Is that still a real realistic assumption or anticipation, I mean, is are we going to revert back to where the big tech stocks are the stars of the show or are we just in a whole new paradigm now for the time being or for the foreseeable future. Well, I certainly think that that, Uh, it's likely we revert back to to tech performing better um than the cyclical side of the stock market in

the near term. I mean, tech has been beaten down as it traditionally has been by rising rates UM. But once we get through a period of time and adjustment. UM. Usually tech then then starts to perform significantly better. Um. It's part of what investors now you as as the defensive part of the stock market. And and so I think there's there's certainly going to be a real interest that doesn't go away. Also just for the longer term, tech is a big part of innovation, it's a big

driver of of where the economy goes from here. Uh So, so I think it's going to continue to be a significant portion of most investors portfolios. And as you meant, as Mike mentioned, you, you guys have this huge suite of ETF products, And I'm wondering if you are also tracking what the retail investor is doing, because you know

retail investors, they tend to favory tfs a lot. But what is the retail cohort doing at the moment, Because I've seen some notes recently and some interesting research that's showing that they're selling into any rally really recently, whereas earlier in the year maybe they were buying the dip because they had been sort of conditioned to do that over the last two years. So how important or what

role is the retail investor playing in this market. Well, if we were to look at UM the AII sentiment surveys, that certainly shows a very barish level of sentiment among retail investors. But I think that's the kind of thing you need, UM to help form a market bottom UM. It can be a pretty temporary phenomenon, and unfortunately, I

think some retail investors hurt themselves by doing that. In fact, I'd argue perhaps the biggest mistake made in the global financial crisis or those investors, and it wasn't just retail, it was also institutional that cashed out at or near the bottom UM and then locked in their losses and weren't able to participate in in a recovery. Uh So, So certainly there's some of that going on, but hopefully

more investors are thinking long term. Hopefully UM. You know, a lot of of the education that we've done has had an impact in terms of having you know, well diversified portfolio UM both across and within the three major

asset classes, and also thinking long term. Because as much as this is a difficult market environment and it's painful to read the headlines and look at the statements, UM, it is still very much a temporary UM market environment, and for many that have ten and twenty year time horizons, UM, they hurt themselves by um becoming panicked or letting emotions take over right now. And uh, Christine, I know you have a global focus, So I'm gonna land the plane

next in Beijing, China. The Party Congress is going on this week week. UM. I don't think any major surprises, but it's become pretty clear that their COVID zero policies are not going anywhere anytime soon, at least won't be relaxed anytime soon. How are you thinking about China and its place in global markets these days? Um? On the one hand, uh, COVID zero is sort of restraining growth there and possibly uh still snarling supply chains to some

to three. On the other hand, Uh, you know that's at least one source of the world where it's not necessarily an inflationary situation. I mean, maybe it is with the supply chains. But help us sort out how to think about China where it goes from here and sort of what the dynamics with the rest of the global markets will be. Well, actually not differently than what we saw on the global financial crisis. China is in a very different place than Western developed economies UM, which makes

a wonderful case for diversification of portfolios right UM. What we're seeing in China is a central bank that has actually eased monetary policy this year as opposed to tightening dramatically. UM. We're seeing some some fiscal stimulus that is significant. And so China is in a very different place than than Western economies. So yes, UH, COVID lockdowns could potentially be a headwind depending upon what what happens in term of

future waves of COVID UM. But for the most part, China is ahead in terms of UM when it's likely to begin recovering, and in fact, I think we're seeing signs of recovery now UM. And that's why if you look at, for example, the I M f S projections that they put out last week in terms of growth expectations for three UM, for a lot of major economies, the anticipate growth to be lower next year than this year. That's not the case for China. Their expectation is is

significantly higher growth next year UM. So and I think that makes a lot of sense just given UM the positives that are going on um in in the Chinese economy. Can you talk more about what your view is on on the possibility of us seeing a global recession. I think you had asked in one of your recent notes if a global recession is coming, Well, it is very, very possible, just given that we have so many central

banks raising rates all at the same time. In fact, we heard from the World Bank last month and issuing a very stark warning about how Um, this is the first time in five decades we've seen this level of synchronicity in terms of tightening. And you don't have to play that police song in the background while I talk about this. But um, but you know it is Uh. It does increase the odds of a global recession, so

we have to be um vigilant about it. Um. Uh. You know, at this point, I think that there is still the potential for us to avoid that, um, if central banks were to pivot soon. We just don't know if they're going to pivot soon. Um. That is is the big question on everyone's mind right now. But every day that goes by that we continue to be as hawkish as we see the kind of tightening we see. I think it increases the odds of a global recession next year. Well, I applaud your chase taste in music.

Now I'm gonna I've got policed in my head. I'm gonna have to go go do a deep dive on the Synchronicity album. Later we'll boil it down to was Christina with. Given everything we've talked about, what's what's the Hooper sort of recommended portfolio look like these days for for sort of your average investor with you know, a

longer time horizon. Well, it doesn't look that different, and it shouldn't look that different than they prescribed portfolio the Hooper portfolio from two thousand nineteen or two thousand sixteen or quite frankly two thousand ten, you know. And again, of course it depends upon the time horizon for an

individual investor. But but you know, a good rule of thumb is, you know, a fifty five thirty fifteen type of portfolio where you have significant exposure to equities and not just within the US, global equities and some dividend paying equities um uh, and a very diversified fixed income portfolio um I. You know, tactically I might over emphasize the investment grade and government, right now and then of course alts UM reads in their infrastructure crypto. That's a

great question. Um, you know I I what I encourage is I say, you know, you all have to do your homework on crypto. And I've told my kids this as well as UM. You know, when I talk to investors and know there's a lot of interest in it. There are a lot of differences among the different cryptocurrencies. Some might work for some investors portfolios, but others might

do enough research and say this isn't for me. Um, But I think certainly be open to it and and do enough research to know whether or not it fits with your risk reward profile. Do your homework. The you probably love to win homework, didn't I love doing homework? Yeah? Yeah, I'm taking French classes now. And at the end when she doesn't sign homework, I'm like, do you have extra stuff we can possibly? Were you a teacher's pad too?

I want to learn? Hello? Well, all right, here's a little bit of a curveball addition to that question, Christina. If I'm theoretically an investor who's sitting all in cash right now, enjoying these juicy buney market yields, that are finally you know something that doesn't round a zero? Does Does that advice still stand? Well, what I would say is you don't want to go all in, you want a dollar cost average back in. But starting now makes

a lot of sense. I mean we've already seen a very very significant adjustment and markets, I mean fixed income levels, you know, fixed income yield levels are pretty attractive right now. So that's not to say we aren't going to see more volatility. Um, it's not to say that we might not see a leg down for the stock market, as I said, as rates go up. But we can never, as humans precise sleep pinpoint when to enter the market. Um,

that's just very very hard to do. So I think dollar cost averaging in makes a lot of sense in this environment where um, we've certainly seen significant losses this year and and valuations are more attractive. Well, Christina Hooper, Chief Global Markets, try to just at invest go We really appreciate it. If you know, if you have some homework you can give Vodanna maybe a worksheet. We're signment. I don't know a book. Do you want to start a book club? I actually much more interested in a

movie club. I find just too much of a commitment to read, but I can easily watch a movie and then talk to you about I just don't want Mike to be part of this club. Ldona will read the book and you can watch the movie. I think that a hybrid like breakfast, like breakfast at Tiffany's in that famous Seinfeld episode. That's great, But we cannot let you leave quite just yet, because we have a tradition on

this show. So I may call it a gimmick. I prefer tradition where no guest is allowed to leave before they share the craziest thing they've seen in markets this week. You start us off FELDA, Okay, mine is Halloween fall, pumpkin um Thanksgiving is related? I suppose, okay, it is. But I wanted to I really wanted to use this one just so I can take the opportunity to say that all the reporters on the Cross Acid team are

getting together to carve pumpkins. But I didn't invite I didn't invite you, so and I'm not extending the invite. That's that's how it tends to go. You're not invited. So anyway, so cold so pumpkins, spice foods, cost A hundred and sixty more than regular versions of things. Did you see this story? This is crazy. It's called they're calling it. I saw this on CBS News. They're calling it the pumpkin spice tax. So it's in everything, Latte's, croissants, Hummus, which,

by the way, pump can Pummics that's pumpkin spice. Pumics doesn't sung good dog treats, etcetera, etcetera. So basically, just if anybody is has you know, if any one of these companies has a pumpkin spiced version of a product, they can just up charge you for it. And we all love pumpkin spice so much we just go and pay it. Is are there like pumpkins supply chain issues or is it just no? I think it's taking advantage of taking advantage. Yeah, I mean a pumpkin pumpkin spice

latte at Starbucks. I'm pretty sure it's like thirty six dollars right now. Yeah, and it tastes a hundred and sixty worse than the than the regular one. Yes, I don't. I don't get this at all. Oh I like that stuff, buddy, I'll go with Yeah, support you hear you give me good. I'm bad. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I'm not a big pumpkin guy. I like, this is why a lot invited, you're not. I love the carve though, and I'm so hurt that I cannot join you carving pump pumpkins. Uh, Christina,

how about you. What's the craziest thing you've seen? And you'll invite me pumpkin carving. I assume I don't carve pumpkins. So just so you know, you can talk to my kids. They'll tell you I am the worst mother ever. I do the bare minimum and that includes never having carved pumpkins with them. So my apologies to my kids. I'm so sorry. So no pumpkin carving for you. The no pumpkin carving. We can watch a movie about pumpkin carving if you want to, though, I'm just out of luck.

Christine is all about the movies, you know. Again, there's very little commitment with a movie, you know, very passive. You can even do your work while you're watching it. You know, I need to make a movie about the

next for you. That would a Spike Lee movie about the next that would actually, I'll give you a great Halloween movie that my son and I watched last week What We Do in the Shadows, one of the funniest movies I've ever seen, vampires having to live in ordinary life flatting in New Zealand, not the TV show, TV show. This is much funnier than the movie. Okay, so, but onto, I was actually very Rarius felt down. I had such a light like nice just because I wanted to bring

up the pumpkin carving. I love it, well, I I just I just focused on inflation expectations because it's a head scratcher. Longer term inflation expectations over the last few months have UM gone down. It's been nice to see that movement down. And then UM within the last week week and a half, UM, we saw an uptick in both the Michigan survey of longer term inflation expectations as well as the New York FETE. If that trend work continue,

that would be UM concerning. It is a surprise, just given that we're already sighting starting to see the air taken out of the sales of the economy. UM, but that is not how consumers see it right now. And and uh, you know, five years ahead, three years ahead, UM, the measure has gone up since since the previous reading. Are they those the two best expectation readings? Do you think to keep an eye on? You know, I think it's sort of I don't if it's surprised people, but

it's certainly many people noted it. When it was office Pal or someone else on the FED really started talking about the Michigan survey. Um uh, that that was That was actually what tipped him over the edge. That in the c p I print. If you remember, back in June, they were messaging fifty basis points and then they got a hot c p I and a hot inflation expectations from Michigan, and within a few days they had the f o MC meeting and they decided for seventy bas

points instead of fifty. So you're absolutely right they pay attention to it. I think consumer surveys are far more important to them than market based measures of inflation expectations. Yeah. Well, as a big ten fan, I think they're giving way too much credit to the University of Michigan. That's all I'm going to say about that. Tell me what the Michigan state inflation anyway, that's that's neither here nor there. That's a good market joke. Really, yeah, you're you're actually

giving me credit for that one. Yeah, we should tweet it. You can tell let you tweet that one. Okay, question for both of you. How many iPhones do you think the two of you have each owned in your lifetimes. I've probably had three or four. I go very I've had mine still has the little push button. I go a very long time before I get serious button. Yes, number is that what I phone? Seven or eight or something something. Yeah, it's it's doubled. Basically, the numbers have

doubled since the last time I got one. It's like on fourteen. Now. Yeah, how about you, Christie? Kids and family? How many? How many do you think you've gone through? Oh? In our family, I have three kids and a husband, so I mean in the same I'm in the same boat. So in total, we've probably owned. Especially my daughter and she dropped It's an embarrassing story, but my she was making my son take photographs of her, and she was telling him to get closer. She was in her swimsuit,

and he dropped the phone in the pool. So that was one right there. Um. And and by the way, you have to race to get to that dryer to try to dry it. It still doesn't work. Familiar and oh god, you know, we tried everything. So I want to say like, wow, yeah, yeah, I'm up there. So I was gonna get you know, with three kids, probably fifteen at least anyway, but no one cares for them. If you're paying for it, you care for it a lot more than when you're a kid and your parent

cares for it. I've got mine in like an otter box case, like nothing's ever happened to it. They all walk around with crack screens. They couldn't care less, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well here's a crazy story for you. The iPhone one. Did you ever any iPhone ones in your house? But I know what you're gonna say. It just auction for a lot of money or or something, and it's but

it was completely wrapped in its package and untouched. All right, all right, spoiler a little a little bit of really sorry. I apologize that was bad. I'm so sorry you ruined. I don't know what came over me. So I think we know who's gonna win. The prices precise this week, because yes, a buyer pur purchased the first edition of the iPhone sold by LCG Auctions. As you're right, it was in its case, unopened two thousand and seven iPhone.

So step up, you're the next contestant on the prices precise. Well, don let's start with you, because you clearly haven't read the story, like I haven't read the story. Not the person is right, we're afraid a little afraid about Barker. Is it? Is it even possible that there aren't a lot of these phones out there? Well? You got one right there. Well, it's it's funny because you trade the man, you know, I've traded so many in for the next

model that who knows. But uh, this was unopened in the box, which if you're collector nerd, it's always got to be in the box and on open. Who buys things and then leaves them in the box unopened? But as such as life, someone realized, I guess that this thing was going to be worse money someday, and they saved it. So what do you think? What do you think? Mind you, this is only two thousand and seven, a

mass produced device. We're not talking about a van. Go here, right, Um, I'll go with fifteen thousand dollars fifteen thousand, Christina Hooper, what's your prices precise? Yes, so I read the article, but I don't remember the number. I want to say it was fifty thou but it could have been to fifty Yeah tho dollars kind of you kind of right in the middle there. We have to do the math there, she said it could have been two fifty. I don't want to install our guests, but I think you want yet,

because yeah, you have to go under. It's actually a document tree on one of the winningest people on prices right on on Netflix, in case anyone's interested. How much well on prices, right? You win like fifty bucks a time. You know they want all of like probably it's more of a social thing, you know. They get to be like the tight knit group. They're all standing outside in line to get on the show. My sister did run.

I just remembered my sister was on the show one There you Go, not so long ago, like two years ago. She won a bunch of stuff. Did she win a new car? No? I wish, Oh my god, new car. No, it wasn't. She won random things. It must be much harder now, what with inflation. You know, prices are changing so quickly. Oh, that's a good point. I wonder if it's yeah, there's causing volatility and the prices right, probably

they have inflation adjusted prices right now. That's good. That's that's that's kind of the theme of the whole markets this year. The prices are not right they so all right, Well, well, Donald, we'll get your sister on some time to play the prices precise with us. I think I guess she's good at it. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, she'd probably be better than I am at prices precise right. Well, I

think that is all our time. Christina Hooper. It's always such a treat to catch up with you, and here you're thinking, Uh, you explain the dynamics of the market so eloquently and clearly, and we really appreciate you spending some time with us and doing so. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you, what goes up. We'll be back next week and so then you can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal website and app or wherever

you get your podcasts. We love it if you took the time to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts, so more listeners can find us. And you can find us on Twitter, follow me at reag Anonymous, Bill, Donna Hirach is at Bildonna Hirach. You can also follow Bloomberg Podcasts at Podcasts. What Goes Up is produced by Stacy Wong. Thanks for listening, See you next time. Thank thank thank