Macro Man Vs. YOLO Boy

It's more than that. It is take it, take it to heart if you say so. I'm getting sensitive about my age and I've got I've got one of those rail number birthdays coming up. It's it's caused me a lot of anxiety, a lot of reflection rail number resistance, if you will. Uh but sorry, It's made me think a lot about sort of this generation divide we have now in the markets, with sort of the younger people doing the Wall Street bets Reddit type of trades. And I don't know how you know true that is. That

might be a stereotype, but for what it's worth. That's that's what the stereotype is. And then you have the old guys in the market. Um, And I've been thinking about you, Sarah, because I feel like it's it must be frustrating for you because no matter you know how much progress has been made for you to do your job, you still have to talk to a bunch of old guys like me fairly regularly. You know, it's not maybe not be right, might not be fair, but you have

to sort of communicate with old guys like me. And what do you what do you think of our generation? You think we just don't want to talk to any anyone income on Mike you're not old. Well, here's what I what made me think about it is is whenever you get two old guys together, say I don't know on this podcast and you at some point we all

start just communicating in old movie lines. You know, it's like, and I know you, it's got to be frustrating to hear two old guys all of a sudden sound like they're speaking another language, but really they're just like quoting Caddyshack or something. I just get confused. But by this point, usually if there's something I don't understand, and if it's a reference, I just gotta step back, let you do your thing and move on. But I'm here to help you.

I think we should open up the podcast hotline, not just for the craziest things people saw on markets this week, but if you have an old man movie suggestion for Sarah, call us up and let us know. What do you think. Well, it's a good time to let you know. I'm actually off next week, so to give me all the movie suggestions of all the time in the world, and I'll watch them all. I'm gonna regret saying that. I think

we'll get some. I think we'll get some. And if you have some sort of millennial movie suggestions for me, I'm in the market too. I'm open to all of that. So hit us up on the What Goes Up Podcast. We'll give you the number at the end of the show. That way, we'll make you stick around for the entire show.

But sorry, if you're an old guy these days, it's also frustrating because if you have teenage children, all they want to do right now is trade, whether it be crypto or getting on Robin hood and and Wall Street bets on Reddit. All they want to do is trade, and they look at us. Dad's like, you idiot. If only you would let me trade, we could all be driving Lambeau's right now, Everyone in the house would have

a Lambeau. If dad would just let me trade. The dog, the family dog could have its own Lambeau just to still, you know, chewing the six shift. Whatever the dog would do Lambeau. But so we've got some great guests this week who I know are going through this very dynamic. It happened in my house to my My daughter wants to trade. She wants to get in there and buy some Tesla and she thinks she can make enough money

to buy herself with Tesla. Is is her goal? Um, And I know a colleague of ours is going through the same thing at home, and he had a very interesting way of dealing with this issue. So let's bring him in and he'll talk about it with us. And we're very very lucky that not only do we have him, but we have his son on the other end of the trade here. So let's welcome to him to the show.

He's been on before. He's a hedge fund trader for years, Currency macro, all sorts of bond equity, futures, you name it. He's an expert on all sorts of Macro products. He's in fact our own Macroman columnist at Bloomberg. His name is Cameron Christ. Cameron, welcome back to the show. Always a pleasure to be here. And like you, Mike, I'm having a milestone birthday, the very same milestone birthday this year.

We're not gonna We're not gonna name it, but I think anyone who sees this can probably can probably guess it, and uh, well, happy early birthday. And Sarah, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna go ahead and give you a movie recommendation that I know, Michael and Doris, you gotta see Fletch. I'm already regretting that. I'm already regretting that I'm gonna have a lot of movies by to the day. You're gonna have a lot of homework. But it will

make you finally understand where we're coming from. I think, you know, I think when Cavin and I were kids, it was like, Hey, it's Thursday night. What are you doing to night? Now? I'd be like, well, I'm watching Cheers, and the other guy would be like, I'm watching cheers too. You know, no one's invented social media yet, or no one's invented Netflix. What else are we supposed to do?

So I think we all have this sort of common shared history that uh, in this day of just you know, infinite entertainment is not the same that That's my big thought on on that issue. So uh, you know, call the podcast and tell me how I'm wrong about that. But that's in one corner. We're there. We have our Macromn Cameron Christ. In the other corner, we have his son who is itching to be a trader, and I'm wishing him all the luck, all the luck in the world.

His name is Patrick Christ. Patrick, Welcome to the show. I'm glad to be here. I'm uh great. How can you be able to share my opinion and the opinions of many others my age? All right, well, now we're gonna pit you against your dad, so so bring it. But Karen, why you just started off here, Kick it off and walk us through this bet that the two of you had going on over the past week or

so and how it came to be. Okay, so we were got to talking over the proverbial dinner table as as it were about the whole Wall Street bets phenomenon and games stop and how crazy the pricing was. And I said, well, it's obviously a bubble and it's obviously going to end badly. And Patrick, Uh, who is a an enthusiastic consumer of reddit uh content, Uh disagreed. Now, ordinarily I would have said, well, why don't you just

take a little position and and and learn the hard way. Unfortunately, or fortunately as it turned out, for Patrick, he has to abide by the same trading restrictions that Bloomberg imposes that I do, which involves minimum holding periods, can't trade calls or puts. Really and uh if he if he would have trade something, I couldn't write about it. So it kind of it really was a non starter for him to to go on Robin Hood and uh and

and actually take a position. So we kinda we made a bet in in in the best trading places um tradition. You must know that one, Sarah, come on, you must know trading places. So look, this truth is I do not. And the reason I can tell you this is because we have the caller for the craziest things at the end of the show, and we are going to hear a quote from trading places. But that's all I say for so I digress. So anyway, and that should that should be top of her list. Absolutely so. And I

will say that tried to make me watch it. I last about fifteen minutes. Patrick, you're the man. Well, I mean, as you know, as you know, Mike. Uh, and maybe you'll know at some point, Sarah, the best way to get your kid not to do some thing is to tell them to do it. Um anyhow, at least anyhow invest trading place of tradition. I figured we'd make we'd make a bet. So we had this conversation Tuesday of last week when Game Stopped closed, thinking about one forty

seven or something like that. Uh, And Patrick said, well, it's easy, gonna go over two hundred tomorrow And I said, no way, man. So we sat in over under for Game Stops closing share price on Wednesday of two hundred, and we bet a dollar. So that was one leg of the bet. Second leg of the second leg of

the bet is Patrick's play. Well, this is easy because all of these Wall Street bet people are piling into these stocks, not only Game Stop, but the Blackberries and Nokias and a m c S and they're gonna drive this stuff crazy high. So I can you know, running a shadow portfoile lio, I can double my money in three days, i e. By the end of by the end of the week. Now mind you return for an entire year is epic for someone who does us for a living. And here we have boy Genia saying he

can do it in three days. So that narrated another bet. Uh. So we then tracked obviously the market uh for the rest of the week, and Patrick triumphed handily in the first bet as game Stop closed it I think three on on Wednesday. So frankly, if he just put all of his money on margin in the game Stop at the beginning of the day and uh and closed it out on on on Wednesday, he probably would have won the second leg of the bet. But alas and a

lack for him. Uh the Yolo stocks went up and then they started to go down, and I think he ended up down or something, which, given he was heavily heavily margin could have been could have been worse. So it ended up being. So you're allowing mar in these paper trades. That's interesting. What kind of margin uh rate are you giving him. He well, I'll let Patrick discuss the he used an app, so I'll let Patrick talk about that. Yeah, I used like an online stock simulator. UM.

And I'm entirely sure what the margin rate is. I think my UM, I think it was most like a negative a hundred thousand dollars for cash given a hundred thousand dollars starting value, So I assume it's And for the record, I wanted the best to be higher. I was going. I was willing to bet a game stop stock for whatever. Friend who would end up that you want to yea rather for there's a lesson risk management. Because he wanted me to bet like a dollar per

h per difference. So for every dollar the game stock was ready from the over under, he wanted to bet a dollar. And I mean, obviously I knew that if I was wrong, I would probably be spectacularly wrong. So I tapped my losses at a dollar. So, young grasshopper, let that be a lesson. Yeah, I had this. This son of your son of yours has a future. I think in this business camera. I like I like his instincts there. I like the levered up instinct. If you

can triple lever on game Stop. I want to start a triple levered Wall Street Betsy t F and I'm sure that would go. It would go so well. It is an apt um manifestation of this phenomenon because Robin Hood, I believe when you sign up, the basic account they give you is automatically a margin account, and I think there's probably something a little wrong with that. You know, it's kind of going going in pretty heavy, pretty early.

So the wait, So, Patrick, we know you won the game Stop bet, but walk us through how you went about trying to craft or portfolio to make a hundred percent in three days. What kind of stops were you looking at? Why did you choose the ones did? How did you position? Give us some color there? Um. So, my initial idea was to go all on game Stop exclusively. Game Stop A fan bought around uh six fifty shares of it at well. I tried to buy it whatever it ended on on Tuesday, but I only get it

um like to nine on Wednesday. Um So, at first I tried to go solely for game Stop um because I thought it would have the best returns. But then you know, I I took personal finance earlier this year. You know, we were supposed to diversify your portfolio, so I go. I decided to go for some other stocks. You know, you're AMC, You're BlackBerry, Are you no kids? Real diversification? Um, So I bought. I remember exactly how much.

I think I tried to get, like twenty dollars worth of each um and then you know, however many probably about eighty or ninety game Stop um. And I think the diversification actually harmed me in the long run, because games I was much more problem Yeah, um, I think I peak. I was up sometime on Thursday, so I could have cash out and made a saw a profit. I want to I want to win the bet um.

But then well, game Stop was still going up. My diversified stocks started going down, so I was I wasn't sure if I should sell, and ultimately, you know, I lost the bet. Hey you're you're one and one. You won one bet. I gotta tell you, I I was when I heard about this. I was rooting for you from the get go, and I'll tell you why now You're Dad is known as the Macroman. There are a

lot of macro men and women out there. Um. Go to a pub in London at like four oh one, and you'll you'll see a lot of them maybe four oh two. Um, they all think they can trade stocks, right, Cameron, All macro traders believe they they consecretly trade start Well, you know, it's it's funny because on a professional basis, I would actually almost argue the opposite. It's just the nature of the way that macro has evolved over the

over the prickly and since the crisis. It's like you're only allowed to be short stocks if you're a macro person, which given what the stock markets done over the last twelve thirteen years, it's kind of trading with both arms and both legs tied behind your tied behind your back.

But yeah, I think it's probably fair to say that, uh, most macro people look at the sort of analysis that goes on in uh the equity space and think thinks it's a little maybe a little shallow, and that the equity people are the beneficiaries of of cheap money and cheap insight rather than any fundamental, uh profound truths of the universe. That's that's just talking stocks. Not even get in the stay make it very clear with the end, Patrick, I know, I mean you have a leg up because

you have a dad who works in the industry. But when did you become interested in all of this? And would you say that that increased over the last couple of weeks, last couple of months even uh? And I mean, is this something that you talk about with your friends a lot and give us give us a sense to that. Um. So I'd say that my interest in trading kind of spawned off with my interest in economics. Obviously, you know,

I had some interest because my dad's a trader. So we talked about that sporadically back to the economics last year, and I really enjoyed it. Um. And one of the things we talked about occasionally, uh with the stock market and how economic transmit into its lat For example, when the coronavirus hit, we were talking about whether it's a supply shock, um, because you know, we weren't really sure what it was. We're trying to analyze it through an economic lens and see how it how it would recover.

Based on that, UM. So, I kind of I had a portfolio that was a little more orthodox last year or sometime. I don't really remember what happened to it, I think, and I forgot it. Um, but yeah, this year, the past couple of weeks, it's definitely been Um, my interest has definitely been picking up. Yeah, I'm a lot of my friends are interesting too. We've talked about in a couple of my classes school. Um. But contrary to what I feel, a lot of people in the industry

thrink think not everyone's on the same side of game stop. Um. You know, a couple of my friends, uh my literature group chat are actually you know if they think they think it's what Wall Street Bets is doing is illegal. And Patrick, you're you're in high school, you're really like a junior senior something like that. Senior senior. Okay, And I want to dive into that idea you mentioned, you know, and and the media sometimes gets this stuff wrong, let's

be honest. But you know, there's been this narrative in the media that it's kind of a sort of David versus Goliath almost there's this sort of you know, moral side of the Wall Street Bets trying to take on take on the man, take on the suits. Um. I gotta say, you know, Sarah, back in the day that that would have been something I would be be interested into you can tell I'm getting old though, because I'm not really interested in sticking it to the man anymore.

I'm like, someone's gonna get hurt. Someone's gonna get hurt. Don't right, But Patrick, is how big of an an element is that? Is it really sort of this this moral aspect to it, you know, of of taking on sort of the power structure in the economy. Or is it just guys and girls having fun and and trying to make money? I mean, is it is it really that simple, just that motivation to make a few bucks, or is there something more? From your opinion, I think

it's somewhere in between. Um, And you don't worry, You're not alone. My dad also kind of hold the same kind as you. Kevin. That was your son calling you old. I believe it wasn't the first time I wanted to last. So among the Wall Street best community, there are definitely some who were just in it, you know, in it for the memes. They want to make a few bucks. But there's also some people, um, like you said, who

are in it for the moral aspect. There was a post a couple of a couple of days ago who said, who's talking about how deeply. They were hit by the two thousand eight financial crisis, and how you know they saw, um, many of people involved kind of got got away with nothing. So this was some way of kind of acting enacting some financial penance on them, um in a way that

you know, Congress didn't really do so for them. It wasn't just obviously they were trying to make money, but at the same the time, they were trying to right the wrong that they experienced a dozen or three years back. Were you a member of Wall Street Bets or were you aware of it before it kind of just blew up in the past couple of weeks. I know it's been popular for a while now, Yeah, I mean I was a member for a few months. UM No, it

had it was growing, like say steadily. It was that um maybe one or two million members or this whole style began. UM. I mean it was my favorite. UM so great by any means, but you know, it was a mat Brows somewhat active UM and a lot of I would say they sort of have this attitude about them regarding stocks that they are they are really the

David UM. They realize that they're not smart. They often post their losses often in the tens of thousands, because they recognize that what the craze that are making a risk, they are risky and there you know, they often don't work. Um, So yeah, I'd say they do definitely see themselves um as the David, But I think they also recognize that maybe they were the David. If David hit himself in

the head with a sling. That's pretty funny, Kevin. I want to ask you though, you know, obviously a lot of the strategies that that these traders are employing, are you know, maybe what at least used to be less liquid names, high short interest, you know that that sort of thing. From your perspective as a macro oriented type of trader and now a columnist, um, do you see any risk of this type of behavior sort of getting

pointed towards the macro world? Now? I know you look at the currency market six six trillion dollars a day. You know, on first blush, it's probably too big of a market for this type of thing to to make it dent. But I don't know if you start looking at like risk reversal positions and say, I don't know,

the looney you know, Kiwi pair something like that. Are there ways these guys uh could start making dents in the facts or bond market or any other non sort of meme stock type of situations in the markets, maybe in a in a very ephemeral way. I don't think they can have the same magnitude of impact certainly that they had in some of these yolo stock simply because

the liquidity is so much, so much greater. And you know, the thing is is that typically a lot of the esoteric stuff, like what you've referred to on the derivative side, you just traded over the counter, and that's not a venue where Robin Hood can can provide provide liquidity um for for for example, but for sure, uh, if they were to gang up on maybe a listed option on an e T f uh that it corresponds to a macro product, you know, like maybe silver, which is kind

of famously a liquid for a macro product. Um, then if everyone bought a bunch of calls or a bunch of puts on silver, could that have an impact for for a few days? Yeah, I think so. Uh. I know, even when I was a portfolio manager and I wanted to running a big portfolio, and I wanted to take a position in silver, an option position in silver. I used the t F rather than rather than rather than the future. So that's certainly a venue potentially that they

could they could have an impact. But broadly speaking, I mean macro is called macro for a reason, and macro means big. Uh So the degree of participation and the liquidity I think would preclude some of these hit and run type tactics. So Patrick, bring it back to you. I have two questions. One, would you say that you've learned anything from the bet that you made with your dad anything at all over the past couple of weeks? And two do you think this is something that you

and your friends are going to continue to do? Even those that might be newer to this out that they've been pulled into this trend and their interest has been piqued. Do you see this as something that's going to continue. Um. So, as for your first question, I will say I experience a little bit of fu bress. Um. I recognize that in a week is a little a little bit more improbable than Yeah, three days, maybe as possible, but three days is definitely definitely a challenge, a little ambitious, yeah,

bit impititious, ambitious. UM. So, I definitely need to temper my aspirations a little bit. UM. But at the same time, this this has been a learning experience, um in the sense that uh this, I feel that, um, the opportunity to learn will come in the coming weeks when we see is game stop gonna you know, sit at a comfortable level greater than what it was, say a few

months ago. You know, is there gonna be an a meaningful impact from the game style community, or from the welsher desk community, or just is it just for me a spike and then it returned to what it was. I also feel that less mob we learn from whether or not UM, Congress is gonna passing me while it's for restricting this sort of thing from happening again. UM. A couple of days ago, I watched a YouTube video examining the legality of this, and UM, personally, I don't

think it's so cut and dry. UM. I think that the what would primarily concern this because a lot of people are saying this is a pump and dump scheme and obviously that's illegal. Um So UM, if I remember correctly, under the Commodities Exchange Act of actually I don't know when it was from, but basically there's don't worry about yeah. Um, So because they're accusing this is being blatant marking manipulation. Um, you know that you have to subject it to a test,

which under the Commodities Exchange Act. So the first stepulation is whether or not the huge that being Wall Street bets have the ability to influence the market prices. And I don't think anyone would deny that they did have the ability to influence Game Shop did not reach four out of thin air. Um. The second stitulation asks whether Wall Street bets specifically intended to create or effect a price or price trend that doesn't reflect legitimate forces to

play and demand. And I think that is the sticulation that it is a little a little more of a gray area because um, as Wall Street bests now is eight million members and obviously not all of them are investing in the stock. But even if only ten to them do an eight hundred thousand invest at what point, um, is it considered legitimate? You know, these people aren't managing

portfolios of people of other people's money. This is their own money, so obviously, UM, it's not legitimate in the sense that, Um, it's not legitimate in the sense that they're not buying it to hold over a long time, but they're offer buying it with their own money. So what could one consider that to be able? Gitimate? So I think that's the question that prosecutors are going to have to ask. UM. I'm going back to the going back to the test um. The third the third situlation

is also pretty gray. UM. It asks um, it asked whether artificial prices existed. UM. In the fourth situlation asks whether well Street Best caused the artificial prices. So I think again, well Street Best did affect these prices. They're so denying that, but is it artificial? UM? I think as UM, as the time's gone on, I'm leading more to it is artificial, because as we're seeing today, it's

dropping to I don't know where it ended at. UM, yours sorry, it's uh, let's see it's I'll tell you where it is as we speak, the the Wonder of the Bloomberg to riminal Yeah, and that size. We're recording this on Thursday afternoon, so you your your results may differ. As they say, stand clear of the craziest things we saw in markets this week. So Cameron and Patrick, I, I hope you came prepared with the craziest thing you saw in markets this week. I know everything has been crazy,

but Cameron, let's kick it off with you. What's the craziest thing. I'm going off past. The craziest thing I saw was something I saw on Twitter last weekend, which was an interchange between the two of you where it emerged that Sarah's nickname is Ponzi. How have you not used this? That means, by definition, any plan that she has to achieve anything in her life is a Ponzi scheme.

Use all right? I want to make this clear. Though Mike is trying to establish my new nickname as the Ponds, it is a much more mature version of Ponzi, and it doesn't subject me to what you are stipulating. Okay, Cameron, actually to square the circle and go back to old entertainment. Do you know who the Fons is? I actually do know about very good thing I can say as to

that one. Pontz is a great nickname, but it's hard to be a professional financial journalist and have your phone calls returned when uh, when you call up and say I think you guys should change the name of the podcast to Ponzi schemes and Reagan's dreams. That's really good.

That's really good. But I've got to say, and I did say, I wasn't going to let you off the hook, Mike, because at Financial Gambler one of our listeners of the podcast said, Okay, Michael's high school nickname must be discussed on the next episode. You'll get a five star podcast rating from me. So in honor of a five star rating, Mike, I think you have to share with us what you're school nickname was. I'm gonna say this, Sarah. Um the bid of one five star rating, my ask is a

little higher. There's we still got to spread there. So uh And I don't know if this is a podcast rating manipulations. Maybe Apple will be in touch with us, but we're currently at a hundred and forty seven ratings on Apple Podcasts. I think if you get us ten more, if we get to one fifty seven by next week, I have two high school nicknames. One of them is

very flattering, one of them is very embarrassing. If we get to one fifty seven, I'll give you the flattering nickname, but we gotta get to two hundred to get the embarrassing nickname at of me. I've got to say, if you won't share the flattering one with us today, then it gives me the feeling that the flattering one can't be that flattering, but it's pretty good accurate. I will say,

both were given to me on the basketball court. So to take that for for what it's worth, all right, sure was just sort of how mediocre my career was. Everyone gets rating the podcast. Yeah, if we get two hundred and fifty seven ratings, and I won't even make them be five star. I don't want to get charged with rating manipulation. We got the one seven, I'll give you the flattering nickname. Two hundred ratings get you the

not so flattering nickname. Okay, that's fair, all right, Um, if I may interject, if we're on the subject of nicknames, we all know that my dad, Cameron Christ like you, referred himself as the macro Man. But my brother and I because he is a little bit shorter than us, you know, he's what are you five nine? No, brother, Now you're six one and six two respectively, all right, I guess six two and six one respectively. We were lovingly refer to him as the MicroB dad. So yeah,

this is what you get for allowing your son. I think for the record, if you check your what's out. I was gonna say earlier, but you resistant. But we're on the stubect of the nicknames. I I have to say, you had to do it. We'll take it, We'll take it, we appreciate. I think you just got us another five star review with that one. That was pretty good. Absolutely so Patrick, how about you? Did you see anything crazy

in the last week? So I think that the craziest thing I've seen is UM just how much a financial institution started trying to use Wall Street Bats as a means to influence activity. Obviously your article about UM bought activity among Wall Street bests as a member, I've seen it. UM. You know there's a post that blew up that had um uh an account posting the exact same comment, basically saying, oh, you should sell you should sell a little way for

about a WEEKLYO. I believe UM and also UM the media outlets consistently saying that silver is you know, Wall Street Bats. Next big thing person I want to comment up on, you know, on what's your best at large I've seen maybe one post um touting Silver as invest were they maybe a week ago in Pennos saying hey, this isn't US. I don't know where this saying this is US. So I think, I mean, I don't know

if this is gonna continue. Maybe one scheme stop dives down there over to uh a little more traditional investment advice instead of just saying, oh, well's your best likes it. But I think that's worth noting at the current time. That's interesting. That's really because that was the narrative, and there was a people mistakenly assuming the street was short silver when when there's really not a lot of evidence for that. It's pretty it's a fascinating dynamic all around.

I got I gotta say it is. And I can say there's been a lot of pushback on the silver narrative. You see it all over social media and on Wall Street bets too, so Oh and Stars. As you pointed out, we did get a voicemail into the what goes Up hotline? Uh, and it does quote an old man movie, so let's uh, let's give it a listen. This is Steve from New Jersey and this is a message, well, what goes up. I believe this video audio explained exactly what's going on

with Robin Hood telling a good part. That's a good part. What do you manage that? No matter where there, our clients make money or lose money. Duke and Duke commission. So I know Cameron knows that movie, Sarah, what's your best guests? It's not Fletch training places. I mean, I I did my due diligence before the podcast, but I'll be completely honest, I won't. When the voicemail came in, I had to send it to Mike and say, I've got to say I don't get this. Do you get this?

And if so, can you explain it to me? So yes, I'll add it to my my week's long homework of watching old man movies. But that's the perennial homework assignment. I know it's a it's a tough one, all right. I'll give you mine. Mine is you know, as as we all know, I like the alternative asset class, and the more alternative the better. This one is certainly crazy. It's also a little disturbing. So I won't make any jokes about it, or not too many jokes. But there

is an auction coming up. For give me a little drumroll here Hitler's toilet seat. Hitler's toilet seat is up for auction. Uh. This is courtesy the New York Post, which is um uh, sort of the paper record for crazy market things. Apparently, when the g I stormed, uh, the Eagle's Nest retreat of the Nazis in World War Two, one of the I don't know if it's an officer whatever rank, he was told the guys go grab what

it grabs, some souvenirs if you want. So one one guy grabbed a couple of oil paintings and grabbed Hitler's toilet seat, which is now up for auction. And sorry, you know what that means. It's time for a little price discovery here. What do you think the auction house is hoping the winning bid will be for Hitler's toilet seat. I mean, I have no idea. I can't say that i'd pay anything for that, but maybe either. I know, it's really weird people collect this stuff. It's kind of disturbing.

But the target price, well, it's it's They didn't really just explain it too well in the story. They said, this is what the I guess it would be the target price what the auction house thinks that they're gonna they're gonna solve for it. I'll go ahead and guess a thousand. I I can it's some weeks, I'm way too high. The next time I guess high and it's something that's ridiculously low. Then I come in and I guess low, and it's telling that's ridiculously high. So this

is gonna be way higher than a thousand dollars. I'm gonna go ahead and say I don't think Hitler's toilet seats worth anything. I wouldn't. I wouldn't pay anything for it. But knowing that there's people out there that, for whatever reason, would would want to own this. Now, Kevin, remember prices right, rules are in effect, so you could go a thousand one. But but your son here is kind of a savvy operator, so you know it's up to you. What's okay is

what they're expecting I should have? I should have I should have been a thousand and one. Look at given that we're old men and we like caddy shock closest to the pin, rules really should be in effect and closes. I was playing, but it's not it's got a point. It's got a point. Though we do follow prices right rules, so but we can we can follow up on this and see what it actually sells. Were and uh, maybe there's a push to be had there. But Sarah, what

do you have? What's the craziest thing you've got this week? Alright? So, in honor of the Super Bowl, there was a story that came out about some cards and some rookie cards selling for records. So one of them being Patrick Mahomes, so Panini National Treasures number one sixty one Patrick Mahomes signed patch rookie card supposedly only five exists, was bought at eight hundred sixty one thousand dollars and that makes it the most expensive FOOTBA card ever sold. Um, so

the dude's only been playing three or four years. That's unbelievable. Pretty wild. And then also I will point out one other because it's a commercial and it was also hysterical. I mean, can me just ask what I gotta ask? One thing? First was the was the winning bitter named Patrick Mahomes. It doesn't say so, but I don't think he needs it. But also pretty crazy, did you guys

see the Popeye's commercial. Yeah, Chicken tendees. I mean, if any more Tendees commercials make their way into Super Bowl Sunday, it'll be pretty funny. It's a strange new where else, it's the crazy things have become. I guess there's just one of the jewelers going to make an ad for diamond hands or something. Diamonds. I could, I could see it. I mean, maybe they're not hitting their target audience, but

you know, why not? Did you see le Um? I saw on Twitter yesterday a rapper had a diamond and planted into his face, So maybe they can do the same thing for her hands. Genius? Remember everyone, I know Mike mentioned it earlier in the show, But if you want to give us a call, leave us a voicemail, maybe we'll play it on the show. That number is six or six three two four three for nine zero um. I feel like we could all have fun for much longer and keep chatting, but we're gonna have to leave

it there. So Macroman and micro Boy, thanks you going to the show. What goes Up? We'll be back next week. Until then, you can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal website and app or wherever you get your podcasts. We'd love it if you took the time to rate and review the show on Apple podcast so more listeners can find us. And you can find us on Twitter, follow me at therapon that Mike is that Reaganonymous, and you

can also follow Bloomberg Podcasts at podcasts. Also thank you to Charlie Pellett of Bloomberg Radio and the voice of the New York City Subway System. What Goes Up is produced by Cooper Forehes. The head of Bloomberg Podcast is Francesca Levie. Thanks for listening, See you next time.