Institutions' Slow-Motion Crypto Embrace

crypto winter? After all, bitcoins low for the year was way back in June and it's held above that low. Since we'll go hunting for green shoots with the CEO of a digital asset fund manager. But first, fil Donna, I have to ask Buffalo does not have a baseball team. No, no baseball team. No baseball team, Go Bills? Fine, whatever, how about the Fills? As a juror see native South Jersey native, I really hope you're rooting for the Philly

I definitely am. You know why because I have a teacher friend who lives in Philadelphia and if they win and there's a city parade and then she gets the day off. When the Eagles won the Super Bowl two, Yeah, I knows seventeen. Uh, yeah, they all got the day off and everybody went out into the streets. Yeah, exactly, burnt cars. Just maybe Bloomberg will give us a day off if it's possible. Can you put in a second for that ask ye, I'll put in a picctre on

the show. I am worried about how how good the Eagles are. They're incredibly good there. I'm really worried about them. Yeah. Yeah, we have a guess waiting for us. By the way, we could talk about this forever though, but I want to bring in Leah Wald. She's the CEO of Digital Asset fund manager of Walkere Investments. I can Buildna. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to have you on the Padia and I've been talking for years, I think now, and I think one of the first

times we spoke. Actually had been looking for an expert who was very knowledgeable about world events. And you actually have a background. You you had worked at the World Bank. So maybe just tell us a little bit about your background, how you got into crypto having had this World Bank experience. Yes,

I did. I started my career working at the World Bank in the sub Saharan Africa region for the former vp O bia Zek Wesley, an incredible woman who then became Minister of Education in Nigeria and Resources among many other things, as well as founding Transparency International. So the segues are actually quite similar. At the time, it was interesting the pilot programs for Empeza were launching in Kenya, UM and and Pezza is a microfinance micro loan based

on SMS UH system. So when I learned about bitcoint a few years later, to be honest, the value proposition made complete sense to me. Of a permission list value transfer transfer that's also UH denominated in UH fractional shares

that that can be shared over, you know, instantaneous. Now, I don't think that bitcoin has taken off in the way that I've hoped quite yet in the developing world with some of those use cases, but it definitely was starting at the World Bank and seeing those pilot programs be so successful that got me excited about the use cases and kind of the pillars and principles of crypto and digital assets. What do you think is a sort of holding back that development of those use cases in

UH developing economies? UM, you know, that's always been the great promise, right is is uh, you know, under bank communities being able to use crypto to sort of you know, participated in some sort of fine actual system, if not the traditional one. What do you think is holding it back? I think that's a great question, something I asked myself a lot. I think that it has evolved in certain ways, given UH the more trend towards believing bitcoin to be

a store of value. I think that the recent advances in countries like El Salvador that we've been following utilizing bitcoin as legal tender alongside the United States dollar has shown that there's definitely promise UH to sovereign nations for using cryptocurrencies. But to your point, is it solving issues with the remittances corridor other issues with unbanked I'm not sure why it hasn't taken off quite yet. I think that structurally we haven't been focused as much on those

types of use cases. I think the speculative elements of cryptocurrencies have definitely had the limelight, which is maybe why we're on this podcast today. UH. I think that money has followed Wall Street UH and cryptocurrencies used again in UH speculative elements and traditional finance joining rather than as of right now solving some of those development economics issues.

But I think that as more development banks around the world start getting more comfortable with crypto assets, which they have not been, I think that we'll start to hopefully

see a little bit more progress on that front. With that said, there have been fantastic technological developments that can ease this, such as the amount of nodes on the Lightning network being over seventy seven thousand, uh and a lot of other advances that I think could facilitate, um what is needed in developing countries for remittances or for again microfinance, micro loan systems uh and whatever platform needs to be used to make those successful, um you know,

and hopefully we'll it on the sooner end. I'm going to ask you a somewhat controversial question, which is that and you and I have spoken about El Salvador adopting bitcoin as legal tender, and I think there's a couple of other countries around the world that have done so, but they're not places where there's you know, robust usage of bitcoin or even you know, we had in El Salvador, the failure of the of the crypto wallets, so they

hadn't been working when it first rolled out, etcetera, etcetera. I'm just wondering how great of examples these might be, uh to to be using when talking about greater adoption

of of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Yeah. I think that's the right question, and a controversial answer is that I think what's been interesting from a GDP perspective is the onus we've now placed on El Salvador and the tourism that then has some to the country and generally the community and enthusiast as um of bitcointerers around the world to support El Salvadore due to the initiatives. So in

some ways, you're absolutely right. I don't think that the actual usage of bitcoin as a means of payment on the every day for buying a you know, big mac is really taking off, although I think that again we're very early stages for that to be comfortable. And generally speaking, the divide, as you well know, uh, in the bitcoint world, is is it a store of value, is it a

means of payment? Is it this? Is it that? And I think that's still being figured out, and until that's figured out, I think it's hard to try to pinpoint bitpoint being a means of payment as its success metric, therefore showing the validity of that argument. But on the other side, just generally from El Salvadore gaining attention in a positive way, that's something that the country hasn't you know, had that opportunity for in in a very long time.

So I think that in that front it's been quite successful. A lot of tourists are coming again, a lot of support, uh, and a lot of infrastructure builds, whether it's you know, wallet's specifically designed for the country, it's definitely taken. I'd say, you know, the limelight of the fact that bitcoin as a means of payment cannot take off unless the rails are in place, So there has been a lot of

technology developed specifically for All Salvador as well. And again, you know, it wasn't particularly a country that's been very focused on by the mass public, But now we love talking about All Salvador. I just mentioned it and you called me out on it, which is fantastic, uh, And I think that that's important as well. You know, Leah Pildona and I recently wrote a piece talking about sort of the transition from a very much a retail sort of day trader mentality to crypto towards crypto to more

of an institutional approach. It seems like the influence of institutions, Uh, the participation of institutions is much greater. You shared some findings from some bullet points from a Fidelity survey. Just read off a couple of the highlights. Adoption of digital assets among those surveyed institutional investors increased to in the US sixty seven percent in Europe globally, of all institutional investors believe digital assets should be part of a portfolio.

So it definitely seems like institutions are jumping in with both feet this year especially, I would think that would be bullish for prices, and yet here we are, you know, with prices down severely this year. I mean, did they cushion the blow of this crypto winner or you know, how are you thinking about sort of the interest of institutions and the effect on levels for for bitcoin, ethereum

and everything else. Yeah, absolutely so those statistics are definitely exciting, definitely bullish long term and as we vary well known finance, it absolutely depends on your time horizon and institutions have a longer time horizon. They also as a producery, I cannot just jump in with a strategy. Might might I digress. My former partner used to tell me hope is not

a good investment strategy. So as much as we you know, may like bitcoin and we're interested in bitcoin, if it's a bear market, it's a bear market, we're not buying right and that's the way that it should be. So I do think again, I'm very excited about institutions interest family offices as well across the spectrum a desire to have a crypto strategy for when the timing is right

to actually buy it. We also know that there is a lot of different committees that need to sign off, and there's a lot of other rdles that institutions have, whether it's risk parameters among others, and also just generally the vehicle that they need in order to buy it. So I think that those statistics from the Fidelity in all so, a recent KPMG survey and many others have been absolutely showing very exciting bullish metrics, but it's not

showing up in the market right now. And I think that's also because we have a coupling in correlation to the traditional market, and all of us are very concerned for the most part about what the macra outlook is. So I don't see any institutions investing in such a risk asset at the moment. So I do see a lot and we hear a lot of institutions that we're speaking to on the sidelines and preparing. So I do

think if we consider a longer time horizon, that's exciting. Indeed. Yeah, so they're they're just maybe not in the type of size that would really bolster prices. I guess that's right. So Leah, can you actually talk more about this because we've sort of had bitcoin, largely Bitcoin and some other cryptocurrencies mired in a very tight trading range. So Bitcoin has been hovering around twenty thousand for weeks now, and a lot of people are saying or asking is bitcoin

boring at the moment? Stuck a little bit more about the macro landscape, because a couple of months ago, we, you know, speaking of institutional interest, we had the Black Crock announcement that they were partnering with coin base, and I remember even back then, it really didn't do anything in terms of being a catalyst upward for prices, So what exactly is going on that's keeping prices very muted recently? Right the million dollar or multimillion dollar question, I think

you brought up a couple of interesting points. Number one, that bitcoin is boring, and how funny that is because in the same survey that you just mentioned, Mike, the main obstacle to adoption over said was volatility, right, and that's always been for the most part. What are as that we speak to and other money managers have had as their highest concern is volatility and uh an inability

to accurately allocate given that volatility. So now we have Bitcoin being the boring asset in the market, and I think that there's some humor to that as well, but also some important elements to consider as this asset develops. And to your second point, Bill Donna, I think that

the black Rock point based news was extremely important. You're right that it didn't move the markets yet, but the integration with the Laddin can't be overstated, and I think anyone in traditional finance understands the power of Aladdin and

obviously the power of black Rock. What we've been hearing is that allocators still want to work with UH sophisticated crypto active managers to manage that product rather than allocate themselves due to again those concerns around volatility, lack of understanding around fundamentals, lack of regulatory clarity, and just general UH discomfort in their own understanding of how to allocate

to this asset class. So I believe that number one, as institutions get more comfortable with the asset class, they will likely feel more comfortable allocating themselves through that integration and in the introim that integrates directly to coin based So you can't work with a active manager who is fluent in allocating to these assets, especially in an active and risk managed way. So I think that there is still a hurdle where it went straight to the finish

line when maybe we're not quite there yet. Really, I'd like to talk a little bit about the bitcoin mining space, UH. I know one of your firms offerings is a miners et f W g M. I UH actually really taking it on the chin this year unfortunately, UH down seventy two. I think since since February when it was launched, what is the sort of the landscape for miners right now? I mean clearly, when bitcoin prices are low, it's not

the best of times for them. But how do you see sort of the the environment for miners progressing from here. That's a really great ticker, by the way, w g M I yeah, I think I know. What do you think it stands for? It? We're going to make it? Yeah, yeah, Leah's pumping our fast. You've got to do the inverse version of it. IM not going to make it. I love seeing not going to make it. You didn't think I knew the hip crypto. I didn't know. I didn't

plus one hundred points for you today. That's amazing. I didn't know, Mike, that you were such a bitcoiner. But this is this. Yeah, I mean, as you guys know, sometimes you've got to get creative with the tickers. You know, that's a really good one. You have to be a little playful, especially in this industry. And that's a tough question. I am bullish, but there's also a lot of concerning elements, especially with prices at this level. For Scientific recently warned

that it's on the verge of bankruptcy. That's no small deal. Um. They're obviously publicly listed. Argo also just came out with news that they failed to raise the twenty seven million dollar strategic ground that they were in the midst of doing, and that there's concerns around what that means. But on the plus side, as we know, bear markets are for builders, so and there's a lot of money still on this base, especially from overseas money that's all, you know, relocating here

in the United States. So there's a lot of upside to consolidation, perhaps not from the dessentialized ethos of bitcoin, but from a business and capitalist standpoint, and and hopefully price appreciation of the sector. You know, M and A could reduce redundancies and costs, and stronger firms could most definitely bolster their position. Weaker firms could return at least some value to shareholders, which is very meaningful in this environment.

And again, you know, all industries go through this during downturns, and mining is no different. So hopefully we continue to see these activities, and we are now, especially in the private equity realm, so I don't think it's going to be seen just yet, but I do think that these are bullish catalysts for long term and typically miners do overperform bitcoin in a bull market. Right now. It's it's quite difficult since it's sometimes in so there's like a

beta to them as a investment. I guess to whatever the coins. I'm gonna blow your guys minds with this next one because I'm ready. You know, the the Ethereum merge. I've actually heard of that. I think I understand what it was. But obviously that was the big, big event this year where Ethereum switched from proof of work Lee, I'm curious if that plays a role in troubles for for miners. You know, I assume many of these companies are mining bitcoin but also have rigs working as a

theory arium validators. UM. How does the switch to proof of stake affect a sort of minor validator company? Um? Is it less profitable for them? Uh? More profitable? You know? Is there is there much difference for for these companies

involved in that space. Yeah. For miners that we're mining ethereum, obviously they needed to switch and there has been you know, luckily for the merge, we have known about it for a very long time, so a lot of mining companies prepared for this for you know, even the years now. Miners are often agnostic as to which coin they're mining if they're able to UH, simply due to market environments

and where they can find the most alpha. For the most part, though, I do think that the market reacted to this news previously and that it was priced in, and that miners across the industry had again prepared for it accordingly, since it didn't happen overnight, the merge was very much a countdown for you know, a couple of years.

But I do think that that's a good question and also something maybe that we don't know quite yet, especially hard to potentially decouple the market environment if we're just looking at the price of UH and Bitcoin and maybe

some of the other proof of work coins UH. And so maybe we'll see that more in the future, and also as earnings continue to come out for these publicly traded miners and and other companies that will be sharing their financials soon, I think that that's when we're really going to be able to see how that hit their pan now. But right now, I think, given the merge so recently happened, we probably don't know the full effects

quite yet. So besides the minor e t F, you guys actually have a bunch of e T F s and I have some E t F some more E t F questions for you. So, for one, can you talk about your Bitcoin Futures fund which launched last year And I remember at the time writing about this because it was huge news in the crypto space. There had been a ton of concern about some of the costs associated with rolling the futures contract and how potentially that

was maybe going to eat away at some of the returns, etcetera, etcetera. Obviously, also worries about volatility. So can you maybe reflect back now that it's been a year about how well the structure the fund itself and others like it have actually held up and whether or not some of those worries that we had back then sort of have have have proved to be unfounded. Yeah. Absolutely, and it obviously varies

across US issuers. I think that there was probably a real silver lining and being smaller and second in that we've only held front month futures, so that makes the role periods more fluid. You know. Again, if you if you look at how our bitcoint Future z ETF has performed, it's had very minimal contaging contango effect. Again that's really due to the front month futures, and there's been actually a lot of healthy volume um with momentum and new

creates over the past month. And you know, other metrics again of the premium discount spread for e t f s is kind of negligible based on the other trust products in the market. So again, if we try to consider that the bitcoin futures, the e t f S as an alternative to g BTC as an example, or O b t C, UH, there's just a huge discrepancy on the poth positives of the structure of the coin

futures E t F UM. So I would say that, uh, Now a little over a year later, I agree with you that um that launch day I was definitely hammered on questions of role and how that would affect And I think that uh time has shown that, especially if you're holding in front month futures, that hasn't been as

scary as the market thought. And then I want to ask you about a spot the coin e t F and what the prospects are for that, because you know, periodically we just tend to hear about this whenever we hear from Gary Gensler, for instance, and I know there's a huge contingent of believers who say, you know, it's around the corner, it's going to get approved. So what are actually the prospects predict Not in my lifetime, maybe year two year, two lifetimes. But I have no comment,

no comments. Yeah, I give you the softball. I don't want to you. I don't want to ate you. So Mike, I shouldn't hold my breath because that's that's not gonna work. Then well, and I wanted to throw a huge kudos to Chairman Gendler, who appropriately tweeted recently about Bitcoin's birthday. And I thought it was a very sweet tweet, actually acknowledging that Halloween was actually the release of the white papers, So that was very sweet to see. But Mike, Mike

threw a party for Bitcoin's birthday. I wasn't invited, though It's true, you don't hear many kudos sent Ginstler's way from hopefully he listens. And uh, and here's that one. I mean, anyone could be Satoshi, So I don't know if you know that was your costume and just you presented yourself. I mean, Mike, it could be you and we don't know about it. Um, but you know, Halloween

is amazing, It's my favorite holiday. As for the Bitcoin Spot e t F, I mean, that's that's always been the question, UM and I we definitely can't predict what the SEC is going to do and when they approve it, um, But as an issue tour, we're doing our best to try to keep a finger on the polls. We most definitely still are in the race to uh see that

holy grail, the Bitcoin Spot et F get approved. And obviously we do agree that it's a more efficient vehicle, UM, that it's the right vehicle, and I definitely think that it will be UM a huge benefit to the market. We've seen in other markets abroad, the Bitcoin future is ets performed very well, very comfortably, UM, and you know across from Canada to Brazilian as well as the other e t n s in Europe. So you know, I look forward to the day where we see that approved

here in the US. But I think that you're right, Mike, maybe not that long, but I won't be holding you know, Leah. One thing you sent some notes over to us before the show. One thing really caught my eye is you have a bullet point here that nearly one billion dollars worth of bitcoin was recently moved to cold storage. Now cold storage for those who are unfamiliar and correct me

if I mess this up. But it's basically, you take the bitcoin off the exchange and you put it on a hard drive, uh that you keep in a filing cabinet. Then you promptly forget the pass word to the hard drive where you throw it out and you have to go dig through a dump to find it and uh and spend billions trying to dig it out. Right right, I'm kidding of worse. But but what is it about the notion of moving bitcoin to cold stories that that

you think is bullish? Is Is it as simple as that is that some of this is just gonna get lost and forgotten? Cheez well, I I certainly hope not with that type of amount. Um, I think that it's bullish. It's also just as a divergent note, I also think it's important to show the importance of bitcoin being able to move that type of money instantaneously. It's just an

important element. If we talk about the bitcoin fundamentals, and we often talk about price, but it is fun to note the importance of the fundamentals on something like that, but bullish. And the reason that it's bullish is typically when crypto or especially bitcoin is moved into cold storage, that buyer, that holdler doesn't plan on selling. So if all of that was dumped on the market, I think

that we would be in some trouble. Indeed, But again, when we see large movements, and that's called on chain analysis, looking actually on Chaine moving from cold storage onto exchanges,

we get very nervous. It's certain that they are going to be selling, but moving from exchanges into cold storage means that it's going in the safe and hopefully they don't plan on selling it and they're they're holding it for the long term, which is something that we like to see in is helpful for keeping the health of the bit win market for longevity. What do you suppose

inspires that movement to cold storage? And I can't help but wonder if some of these bankruptcies we've seen this year have people worried about, you know, where their their crypto is held. Is that part of it too? Do you think? Yes? Actually, I think that I think that that is the short note on the price and investment thesis there is is simply that potentially you know a lot of these holders believe that we're at the bottom um or near there too, especially if their horizon is

much longer UM. So they're comfortable moving into storage now. Uh. And you know, holding it at this price and feeling very comfortable as to your very bit pointer comment. And I'm very impressed today we in the industry say not your key is not your points, and I think that's absolutely right. There's a h widespread analogy actually an adage there um that if you keep it on an exchange,

it's vulnerable and it's not your bitcoin. And I think that there's nothing more pressing than actually and important than what you're saying here. Given the contagion that we've seen in the market that just devastated crypto this year across the lending platforms, especially um SO, I think that that's an important takeaway for anyone that does hold crypto, is that not only keeping it on a third party platform exposes you to the devastation of their policies and what

they are doing behind the scenes. Uh. And therefore you can't always just get your bitcoin back, but again really taking control of your money and ensuring that you are holding in and therefore you know exactly where it is, so not your keys, meaning private keys in order to

um hold your bitcoin, not your coins. So I think that that's very very important, especially again in light of everything that's just devastated the market from the contagion of the hedge funds, the learning platforms, and most of the funds that got blown up. Hm. And just to keep us going with the theme of you know, crypto specific

terms or memes. Even one of my favorites is October, which is just people hoping that the month of October is a very good month for cryptal prices, and we had somewhat of an October over the over the past month. So can you maybe just talk about some of those other green shoots, like what else is out there that

maybe is making you a bit more positive about things? Yeah, I think again bringing it back to the fidelity points that you spoke about earlier, Mike, I think that those are positive elements that we definitely need to take note of. There's other institutions that have been coming out with very powerful news Bank in New York announcing their bitcoin custody. Uh NASA did as well. Other very large players such as Apollo, Franklin Templeton with s m a s across

the spectrum. So I do think again that a lot of very smart traders are seeing this as a relative bottom,

but as a buy opportunity. And again I think that as much as institutions continue to come out with positive news release reports such as what you mentioned, which has news about already allocating to these digital assets, UH, the comment at hand that we were speaking about is you know, how much are they allocating uh, and is a decisable portion of the portfolio, But knowing that they are allocating

already is important to note. And again we've been speaking more US centric, but globally it's it's really a different environment. I used to live in Singapore for a few years and in Singapore it's a different conversation to be speaking about bitcoin and crypto and your allocation strategies. And across Asia you just see different dynamics, uh, South Korea always being a hub, Japan being very regulatory forward um throughout

the past few years. So again, it's not just a US phenomenon, and the rest of the world has been allocating. And I think that in keeping in mind that this is a global phenomenon and asset class that's traded worldwide, and those moved the markets as well. I think that

there is bullish news to be had. I don't know if we can truly call it an up October I as having moved the markets, given where we're sitting again right now, but definitely there's there's been bullish news that has come out over the past month, right And obviously we talked about a lot of positives that you and others within the industry have been sort of pointing tour

or looking at recently. But again we have to remember what actually is happening bigger picture with the crypto space, and some of the most heart wrenching headlines have been about a lot of the layoffs or reshufflings or you know, within just a huge number of crypto companies and bloomering. News just this week reported about Galaxy considering some layoffs, and there have just been so many I've been writing about Genesis and some of the moves that people have

been making away from that company. So maybe you can you can talk about your view on what's going on in terms of seeing some of the CEOs, especially leaving, and then tell us about what's happening with Valkyrie specifically and how some of these changes and trends have been impacting you guys. Yeah, I think it's been a hard winter, and I think that a lot of US firms and especially crypto asset management understand that the winter could be

here for much longer, maybe eighteen months even plus. Um So, from even just a dispassionate business decision. Um as awful is that sounds. Sometimes that's the decisions you need to make as the CEO in the end of the day in order to cut costs as much as needs be based on what your p m L is looking like. In this type of environment, there has been necessities for many firms across the industry to conduct layoffs and other metrics and measures such as strategic grounds. Again right now,

you're seeing that across across the industry. Blockchain dot came out with news that they're also raising another strategic round. Um So, I think that, you know, uh yeah, a lot of the crypto asset managers all intensive purposes. I'd

see a lot of us as startups. We are not black Rock as much as we hope to be one day, and the introm we are still trying our best to still have a seat at the table, But that does mean that we are more prone to these types of market volatility than a larger legacy firm in New York City would be in something like this. So I think the best that we can do and what we all

need to be thinking about. Again, as mentioned previously, bear markets are for builders, so hunkering down on what's working and what your vision is for the future is what's important.

So at Valkyrie, it's been very important to the firm to be building infrastructure tools and technology this year, and that's something that we're focusing on during this market as well, is ensuring that our funds are running to the highest quality possible, making it through the Bearer market, taking care of our investors and holding their hands when it gets a little scary, and building the infrastructure tools to make sure that as this market faws, we are in the

most powerful position and digitally enhanced if you will, um to really take advantage of the uptick and and be there as a hopefully a powerhouse. But I would say that you know, this market definitely hits us more than the legacy players. Uh you know you mentioned bitcoins celebrating its birthday. I think throughout the entire lifespan of bitcoin. Uh. The notion of regulation has just been hanging over the

whole space like this you know storm cloud. Uh, and it you know, it really seems like it's only been sprinkling the storm cloud. It hasn't really been a day lousee yet of you know, of regulations. Um. But obviously we have a mid term election coming up. So is there any risk there, either positive or negative risk in your mind is as far as how these mid terms shake up? Yeah, I think that that's a great question.

I think that it does very much depend on what we see in the midterm elections and in regards to getting again, if we're looking at that bitcoin spot et F approval, I think that many firms across the board are looking for greater regulatory understanding and guidelines from all

the regulators on how that affects them. I think that a lot of people were interested in what came out with Fasby recently and generally are just looking to Washington, d C. Two see how that affects their firm and if it makes them comfortable enough to be able to buy UM. So I think, as mentioned, we are likely a far ways off at least a couple of years from that spot bit we needs f um But yeah,

we're watching the mid terms very closely. We think that if Democrats retained majority, we expect rules and regulations to come, hopefully within the next year, but we also expect that if Republicans take the majority in one or more houses of Congress, we expect that it may take longer. So we're definitely watching that very closely. Is it sort of better for the industry to just get those you know, rip the band aid off with those regulations and get

them in place quicker? Absolutely? And actually, Bill Donna, I loved your peace about that recently, and I think that, uh, you know, I would love your thoughts a little bit more since I think that your piece recently really nailed that on the head that it seems as if the industry just celebrates, uh, having that type of clarity so

that they'll have more comfort buying. Yeah, I think you're talking about the We we did a market's live survey saying that or asking people would you be more interested in crypto if there were more regulations in place, and the majority of respondents had said yes. I think so. There was this really great quote where somebody told me. The more they can get crypto out of the wild West and into traditional investing, the better off it's going

to be. So I think a lot of people, at least they say that they'd be more interested in this space if there were greater regulations in place. Well, I think that's a good segue for us, yes to our own wild West of crazy things. But mine isn't even markets related, but it's numbers related. So I'm just going to cheat. I've been cheating a lot recently, but this is so hilarious I had to go with it. Okay,

go ahead, I really hope you haven't seen this. A man in China one a thirty million dollar lottery jack pot dollar lottery. That's okay, that's it. I'm just kidding. And this is this is the kicker. He's keeping it a secret from his wife and child because he's worried

that the winnings might make them lazy. So he went to the lottery office to claim his prize, obviously the big check, and he wore he wore this hilarious bright yellow, bright yellow costume had big like googly eyes, so his face and body were totally covered, so that his wife and child cannot recognize him. I'm sure that's the reason why he's hiding that thirty million from his wife. Sure why? I think there's other reasons to hide thirty million from

your wife, you know, Like what, I don't know. If my wife listens to this podcast, I might be are you hiding thirty million dollars? Oh? Is this person you? Okay, so he said I didn't tell my wife and child for fear that they would be too complacent and would not work or work hard in the future. I just love that, all right, all right, I didn't know that was a possibility. We've done lottery stuff before. Yeah, good, good stuff. All right. How about Julia, you see anything

crazy recently in markets? Okay? So this this was tough. But I has told this recently, and I thought that it was pretty interesting. It's actually quite sad. But you guys also talked about the Phillies I believe. So it's a Phillies factoy. So apparently if you look at the years when Philadelphia teams won the World Series, they were all in or near periods of economic or stock market weakness,

and we are obviously in one now. So bad omens. Indeed, that was something new that I learned recently, so scared the athletics the predecessor I believe, Yes, well two thousand and eight, that was the last time. Look, it's a small price to pay, all right, A minor recession, financial crisis, you know, if that's what it takes for the Phillies to win, I'm okay with I saw this on Twitter and I close it out real fast. I really did.

I was like, oh no, I think there are some who will claim that the A's won a few series that did not precipitate a financial crisis, so h But I mean I was gonna say this has track. It is what it is. If a global financial crisis is what it takes, I think most of Phili would be okay with that. I didn't say it. I think the A's actually did win as well. I know, I know it's not good. Oh we'll get a cheesesteak and call it a day. Cry into the Tuesday and a pretzel

for me now, Leah. I know in your world, heavy crypto traders like to refer to themselves as d gens or degenerates, but as d gen as they get, they don't really compare to the original dgens of the gambling world. So so my crazy thing relates to the gambling markets. So did mine lottery? Right? Okay, fine, fine, all right? Have you heard of this guy, Mattress Mac in Houston

and Texas. He's a furniture He owns this furniture chain of furniture stores, and he has placed a bet on the Houston Astros to win the World Series to beat my Philadelphia Philly. So clearly a degenerate right there. With that, with that pick those cheaters in Houston. Uh, I'm just kidding. Mattress Mac seems like a very nice guy, very fine. I was going to lean into this with you. I don't want Mattress Mac coming at from anyway he's placed. If he wins this bet, they said, it will be

the biggest legal gambling winning of all time. So, Lee, I regret to inform you you are a concessant on our game show. The prices precise, and so is val Donna, who I think may have already read the story. This story is person by the way, you just know Mattress Mac from his mattress because he placed some bet like six months ago on something and he won big. He he places big bets. Yeah, left and right. I think he did a Super Bowl bet that explain his strategy.

It's a brilliant strategy when when you find out. But what do you on a prisis precise? What do you think the biggest legal gambling win will be if this guy wins? Which is the payout Philly gonna win? Okay, I'm gonna go with one eight million, eight million? Okay, Leah, what do you think the payout will be on the world's biggest legal recorded sports gambling that I want to red? I want to go higher. I'm going to go with four point three million. Alright, I'm keeping a poker face here, Leah.

What's what's your entry on the prices precise for the biggest ever legal gambling payout? I believe legal sportsman gambling payout. I want to go even higher. No, you get you already amended it once. I'm going over. So I'll go four point eight, I take I take above Vilgana. Yeah, you'll take four point nine, four point eight and one dollar's going to do it to five point five. But final, let's stick with whatever se million dollars. Yes, so I kind of win that when you played it smart, that's

the way you play it. Yeahfals not to get it on the nose. It's just to beat Bildana. Yeah, he bet ten million on the Astros at average odds of seven and a half odds. But the guy's kind of a genius because here's his strategy. He told his customers, if you spend three thousand dollars or more on a mattress, which, first of all, I did not even know mattresses sold for three thousand dollars. Yes, I need to sleep in one of those mattresses. I don't think I'll ever wake up.

If if the customers spends three thousand or more on a mattress and the Astros win, they get the mattress for free. Right, So what happens is all these people went and bought expensive mattresses, all these astros. He sold something like seventy three million worth the attresses, and then you have to shut it down because he placed a ten million dollar bet. So if the Astras win, he wins seventy five million, and his customers get seventy three

million in free mattresses. Still makes money, that's lose. He has sold all these mattresses. Pretty brilliant strategy there, despite the fact that the astros are gonna lose. Hopefully they will lose by the time this podcast comes out on Friday, I hope. So it's a brilliant strategy, though, Leo, I gotta admit I you know it's kind of no outside. Yeah, very smart. Okay, Well, that's that's it for our show. Leo wald CEO, a digital asset fund manager of all

Korean Investments. Thank you so much for joining us. It was so fun to have you on. Thank you so much for letting me join today. It was a lot of fun. Thanks, thank you, Leah. That's it for our show, and don't forget to tune into Bloomer Crypto, a daily Bloomer I heart podcast What Goes Up. We'll be back next week. Until then, you can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal website and app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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