Leah Finnegan Puts Baby in a Corner

by Peter Teal using Hulk Hogan as a vehicle. Um I'd like you to get a mental image of like Peter Teal sort of using Hulk Cogan as a skateboard sort of the way I'd like to think about it. Anyhow, now I'll probably get suited by Peter Teel of existence. But anyhow, Gawker was shut down through some like really

wild light lawsuit stuff that was unprecedented. And and then um, I was purchased by this guy, Brian Goldberg I used to work for, and he you know, has like, hey, I owned docer now, and like what sh we do with it? And then eventually we were like, oh, you know, you could relaunch it? And I started working with this

editor Leah Finnigan. Leah Finnigan, who has worked with me at The Outline, which was a website that I started, uh and as a brilliant editor and super smart and has become a friend over many years of us working together, has attended more than one Thanksgiving dinner at my house and uh, She's a great, incredible person. But I haven't really liked seeing Lee or talked to her. So, you know, I'm not at the company anymore, and Gawker's off doing its thing, and I haven't talked to Lee in a

really long time. And the other day I was I would say reminiscing, but I think you when you reminisce, you have to do it out loud. I think, but can you reminisce to yourself or does it have to be out loud? This is a great question. You don't have to have the answer to that. And I'm just now I'm just sort of thinking out loud. I mean,

now that you're asking, I'm wondering. I'm wondering too. I was reminiscing about Leah and thinking about you know how I haven't talked to her in a long time, and I felt like I should have her come on the podcast and we should chat because, frankly, like not for a super specific reason that we are in like Awards season, and there's a lot of Like has been doing a lot of really funny celebrity coverage lately, and I mean always, but especially they've been really on there at the top

of their game. And anyhow, so I thought, you know, let me use the precious time I have here on the podcast to reconnect with my with my old friend and colleague, Lea Finn again. So we got her to agree to come on the show. But before we start talking, can you reminisce internally? I didn't get a good answer. Really, I got an article saying there are six types of reminiscing, but only three are good for you. See, this is how, this is how the content machine has ruined in form

nation in the century. The powers that be in the technology world have created a prison of information where you think you've unlocked the cage, but then a new set of bars come down in front of you and it is poisoned the soul of humanity. Anyhow, let's let's talk to you. So the Golden Globes happened last night? Yeah they did. Did you watch them, I did. Did you have an opinion on the proceedings. I thought they were kind of strange. We wrote a piece for Gawker dot com,

of which I am the editor. Yes, your website. Yeah, about the vibes being off. I thought it was a little there's a little too meta for me. You know, I want to I want a song and dance. I just want to chill out. I think what you're saying is you want Ricky Gervais back, is what you're trying to articulate. No, definitely, not, definitely not. I just want one like number from Hamilton's or Cats. Either one of those would be getting a Golden Globe this year though,

right is? But why not? Just like you think they should have the Golden globes where they like kind of intersperse it with Broadway numbers. Your idea, Yeah, I think that would be great. It's not bad idea. Um. No, I thought the vibes were off. I like Gerard Carmichael a lot. I thought as a host of that show it was very uncomfortable. I mean, on purpose, obviously, But I did think his his outfits were absolutely incredible. Oh,

he looked great. He's got an incredible sense of style, and I thought his you know, his like scientology jokes were excellent and made everybody really uncomfortable, which is good. Feel like you and I have talked about this, and in fact, probably we have written on more than one occasion something on the outline, and certainly maybe now you've written something on GOK. I don't know about the death of award shows and the fact that award shows are

just kind of like terrible. I mean, aren't they all sort of bad now? Yeah? And yet we still watch them and talk about them for months, maybe even years. I mean do we do? We watch them though? I mean I haven't checked the numbers with the viewership of the Golden Globes. Good, like where the numbers up? Nobody watches TV like we watch it because we're aging. We're ages. I mean, I'm old. I can't speak for everybody. You have an old soul. So it's a kind of a

similar situation. Are you googling something right now? I mean, I'll never forget six point two five million the second smallest audience for the annual ceremony and near record law. Yeah, exactly, that's it. What were we gonna say? You're about to reminisce. I mean, I'll never forget where I was for the lab which was that was the Oscar. Yeah, I know, but we're talking about a warshows. The slap was our generation's moon landing. It was our generations nine lefe. No,

for me it was as bad as Not eleven. Perhaps work our generations. Not eleven was not eleven maybe for you, but for me it was the slap. But I did think Eddie Murphy was his closer to His speech was extremely funny. I mean, I will say I legitimately feel that he tapped into something in terms of timing and like the place that was just perfect. Maybe that's just me, you know, Maybe I don't know. It didn't work for everybody, but I thought his joke about the slap was very

well placed. Of course, he's a great art. We have to keep talking about this lap. It was a major moment in history. I mean, was it? I don't know. I mean I kind of forgot about it, to be honest, Like I've been thinking that much about it. I wouldn't say it lives rent free in my mind or anything. I definitely talked to my therapist about it. Did it upset you when you saw it. Was it like something

that was a jarring personal experience for you. I think I can't remember if I even saw it in real time. I think I must have. It's like when you have a really traumatic experience, you kind of like can't and sometimes can't remember. Anyhow, You're just at the stage here a little bit now. Of course, you and I have done a podcast before, but we haven't done one in a long time. And the last time you and I did a podcast together, I believe the outline was in

business Trump was not No, he was president. Trump was president. It was just a very different time, and now it's it's brand new year. You are the editor in chief of Gawker dot com. I no longer work at the place where Gawker dot com is hosted. Very very sad. I know it must be very depressing every day you

have to walk the halls. I'm sure you're in the office every day, walking the halls, the lonely halls, sensing the overwhelming sensation that I'm just not there, and so I it's got to be a powerful and upsetting feeling for everybody. Anyhow, Dawker is thriving in the current environment, Am I wrong? Am I right. I think we're doing okay. But I mean there's a lot of things going on in the world that I feel like are very good for Gawker right now, Like there's a lot of absurdity.

The political landscape is nightmarish, but not like it was previously. Like I feel like we've reached a point. You tell me if I'm wrong. During the Trump era politics was it was sort of like nightmarish and really upsetting and legitimately felt bad, like there were really bad things going on. Now it seems a little bit like politics are nightmarish, but in a kind of a fun way. Would you

say that that's true? Yes, you know, I was moved by Santos not saying hi to anyone in the House of Representatives, but then greeting a dog with the bow tie. Speaking of dogs with bow ties, heard that's your dog? Baby? Is she barketed us? I know? She defends the building from the people who live here, right, just like a small dog. Very good stuff. Do you have like a sound proof of booth you could put her in or

there you go? Yeah, shutting the door? What a novel concept. Anyhow, So you're the editor in chief of Gawker a great website, a wonderful website that I mean, really, you raised from a corpse back into a slightly less dead corpse. Yeah, no one wanted it, but we did it. No one wanted it, no one asked for it, and yet we delivered it. You delivered it to the public, and now they have to take it every day. They have take

with Gawker's dish. Now. I think that what's interesting about Gawker is that it's still really agitates people, Like people are still very upset about it, uh and offended by it and angry about it. Like I've talked to people, and I remember when we were relaunching it. Like in fact, people in like Hollywood, who I know, we're like, I fucking hate Gawker. I can't believe you should not do that. Don't bring it back. It's terrible people in Hollywood. People

in Hollywood hate Gawker. It's well in not In fact, who do you know in Hollywood? The only thing they remembered a lot of people, the only thing they remember about Gawker is Gawker Stalker. They don't remember anything else about Gawker at all, And they just think that Gawker did Gawker Stalker for It's as higher existence and that's all it was about, was like hunting down people in public. Are you a scientologist? Am I a scientologist? Yeah? Yea,

I saw you're like I know these Hollywood people. Yeah, my buddy Tom Cruise, and uh, I don't. I actually couldn't think of another scientologist just now. Kirstie she said she died rest in peace. Uh. John Travolta, Yeah, John Travolta is still a scientologist. He's still alive and still a scientologist. Yeah, no, I know, he's still alive. Elizabeth Moss, who has been a very successful scientologist. Elizabeth Moss is like one of the back scientologists back is also a scientologist.

And we're kind of like, oh, you know, I was just born into it or you know, that's my family's religion or whatever, and it's like, yeah, but your family's religion was invented by a science fiction writer in the nineties, whereas many people's religion was invented by a science fiction writer from the from the zeros. You know, so yeah, very different vibe God, Yes, yes, God invented religion, that's

exactly anyhow, So I think something's happened to celebrities. So we're talking about the Golden Globes in Hollywood, which two of my favorite topics. And you cover celebrities on Gawka, you're constantly writing about them. Like, for instance, if if I click on the homepage right now, there's a here's this, uh Gerod Carmichael's getting the panned. You've got Harry and Megan. I want to talk about Harry Megan. We'll get to

that in a second. There's a actually a lot of Golden Globes derived content on the front page of Gawka right now. Would you say that that's a big Gawker event. It was a big event. People were talking the traffic driver chattering classes. It was a great traffic driver, surprisingly really interesting. Unlike that the Emmy's were not. The met Gala was I'm telling you all the secrets. No, this is great Matt Gala, driver of traffic, Golden Globes, driver

of traffic. He's nothing that's interesting. I mean Emmy's feel like there's a lot less like relevant stuff happening at the Emmy's for like a younger audience. Don't you think to me, feels like kind of old, really old about the Emmy's maybe or not important. Now the daytime Emmy's, on the other hand, did you cover that? Did you cover the daytime Emmy's? I mean, now that you don't have a day job, are you watching daytime TV? Not

at all. I don't watch TV at all. I mean, we did watch the Golden Globes, obviously, we let Zelda stay up. Did you watch The White Lotus? So here's the thing about The White Lotus. We watched the first episode and then busy or something and couldn't didn't finish it, and we didn't get back to it, and then every everybody finished it, and everybody was talking about how amazing it was, and there was apparently this huge, you know,

a potential spoiler for the final episode or whatever. But I have been working so hard to avoid the spoiler because I've been waiting for us to get back to

finish watching it. Right, I'm very excited because everybody said it's great, and then it was ruined for me last night by one of the stars of The White Lotus, Jennifer Coolidge, who just you know, tweeted it out a like or whatever however the tweet goes, you know, just said it maybe that doesn't spoil the whole show, but it definitely after Like it was kind of like, you know,

you haven't had COVID yet, you know. I remember when I hadn't had COVID for several years and then I got it at a company dinner and I was so angry. You know, I had stayed safe for so long and then I was exposed to it. That's how I felt when I've heard the White Lotus spoiler um last night. So it's honestly really painful for me. I don't know what your take is, like, do you think the show's rude and shouldn't even bother watching it? I think this

is all your fault. It's on you, Like you should have just watched it, and now you're complaining that it's ruined for you. But you could have prevented this situation by engaging. I think what you're doing is just commonly referred to as victim blaming UM. This victim blame your victim blaming me. I'm the person who had the thing happened to them, and yet somehow it was my fault. It's very strange and upsetting to hear that come out of your mouth. You need to take responsibility for what

you're doing and not doing. You're right, But anyhow, I don't watch TV. I mean, there's very little to watch on TV. So what do you do? What do I do? That's a great question. I mean, Um, well, I've just recently re up my medical marijuana license, so I'm I'm dabbling with weed now. I'm trying to do dry January, I mean California Dry January, which is smoking weed and

not drinking like I'm having a non alcoholic beer right now. Um. You know, I have a daughter, as you know correct, we're opening a bookstore here in our town, and I'm not gonna want to say the name of the town because you know, I'll get a kind of gawker stalker gawker stalker in my town. But Josh, Josh to pulk spotted in unnamed town. You haven't seen the bookstore that we're opening. No, you haven't seen any of any of the Instagram posts from Sylvia or Laura. No, what is it.

It's a bookstore and it's an actual store. That's great anyhow, But getting back on the celebrities and the Golden Globes and the TV that I'm not watching, I think like something has a derangement has occurred with celebrities, Like they don't seem normal anymore, right, Like I feel like the

two things that really broke celebrity behavior. One is of course the rise of the Internet and the fact that they could now like be communicating with people in real time, which like I don't think celebrities should should do, Like I think it's bad for them. It seems like unhealthy for them. And then you know the pandemic. I think like, like, don't you feel like celebrities lost it during the pandemic? Is like they couldn't make their stuff and what else?

What you know, you're talking about what I do in my downtime, But like imagine being you know, Brad Pitt, and you're just like sitting around, Like what does Brad Pitt do at home? Does he he plays games? That he plays video games? Like does he does he watch stuff? You know? No, here's my theory. They're just getting plastic surgery all the time. Like that's why they're not real, because no one has a real face or body anymore. They all have new faces, you know, new But do

you think Brad Pitt has a plastic surgery? Absolutely? And then this is you know, this is a life you have to commit to where you're just getting secret plastic surgery. Then you have to recover for six weeks or whatever. But what about Jeane Smart? Jeane Smart has plastic surgery. Probably she's had a like a little niptalk or little really little pull up. Is there an nobody you think hasn't had plastic surgery in Hollywood? Maybe like Steve Bushemy.

You don't think he's un Joe Biden. Joe Biden looks like maybe he said something. Don actually like maybe a little facelift. Yeah, it's like a brain implants going. But everyone, I mean everyone has a new phase. Really do you think so? Remember when we launched, we wrote a post about how everyone has the same nose. It's a classic post. Who wrote that was Claire, right right, Clare Carouselo. And it's it's definitely true. Everyone has the same nose. Now

it's like a little thinner. They do it with filler. I'm looking it up right now. Maybe you should get that nose. You think I should have a smaller nose. That's interesting. It's anti semitic of you to say, but that is and I'm sorry you could say because you're half Jewish, but um, you know full of Jewish, but thank you really are you? You're completely Jewish. My mother is Jewish, all right, So that's that washes out your

dad's contribution. It's very cool. I'm looking at the nose post now, and uh, I would like I wouldn't mind having a smaller nose. I think it would solve a lot of problems for me. You know what's funny about my nose is that it's it's hard to breathe through. Like you would think it would be good to breathe through, but I'm actually stuffed up all the time. Like I have to wear breathe right strips at night too. That's more of a throat problem. No, I don't think it is.

You gotta see any ant. Yeah, I know there's a lot of things I should be doing. Do you have insurance right now? I do? Haven't. I do have insurance right now, actually great insurance, and I could have all of my problems dealt with. I actually tried to go see my doctor the other day and he said that he didn wouldn't see anybody who had a cold because they might have COVID. It seems like a weird position for a doctor to take. Right right if he feels like,

don't come to the doctor. He was like, he was like, oh, if you're feeling sickly, I can't see you. And it's like, but you're a doctor, Like your entire existence is for people who feel sick. It's very kind of upsetting. I think I'm gonna have to get a new a new guy. M So, how's Gager. How are you feeling about it? It's going great even though you're not there anymore. It's still a dream job. It's very fun. We laugh a

lot every day. It's fun to just like make fun of celebrities and put that out there for people to enjoy reading, which I hope they do. Yeah. Do you feel like you've created any enemies since the launch of the site. I can't really say. I mean, the site is still snippy, but it's not really specifically mean at anyone who would be totally offended. We did a post about how Brie Larson doesn't have any friends. It's a

very very funny post. People got very angry, and afterwards she posted and Instagram and she was like, here I am with my friends. That's so great. Yeah, I love that. That's you're interacting with the celebrities. Right, we make a lot of Taylor Swift fans mad, but that's literally not hard to do at all. What would you say is the thing that you've most recently made Taylor Swift fans mad about? Well, we did a post speculating as to whether she was gay, and those the TikTok rumors were

really insane. And really, when you publish anything about Taylor Swift, the Taylor Army responds immediately on Twitter. They have their opinions and they expressed them, and I'm happy they have an outlet on which to do that. Right, I mean, Taylor Swift, is she gay? There's no real evidence, is there? Like, it's just kind of all she's she's kind of a sexual. I don't know. Later alone, should we be outing people like that? Isn't that what gets gok or in trouble

in the first place, is outing people? Yeah? Is then why Docker was put out of business by Hull Coogan. I don't remember. I was asleep during that entire thing. Docker out at Hull Cogan has been bisexual good by side, No, he wasn't bisexually. We don't know, do We remember when we we launched and we wanted to do like a post about Hull Cogan every day, top Hule Cogan wrestling moments. We had some great Hull coging content, which we ended

up not doing. My impression is that you and I thought it was funny, but I don't think everybody else thought it was that funny. It was gonna be like ten reasons why Hull Cogan is so awesome, and it was just going to be very earnest. I mean to me, what would have been exciting about And by the way, you could still do this like no one's stopping you.

I mean, we have a picture of Hull Cogan on the home page, yet no one, no one's ever mentioned it, right, people have mentioned it, but I haven't heard from any l A W Y E R s uh. You know what I just spelled. I don't. Yeah, I haven't heard from any lawyers. But yeah. The idea was that we would just post like positive stuff about hul Cogan and presumably would make people nervous and upset and maybe make

Hulk Cogan nervous and upset. Right, Yeah, I mean we want to do like a slide show of like pictures of him looking cool, like Getty photos of Hulk Cogan looking his best. What do you call that in wrestling? Is best slams SAMs, body slams, body slam. That's pretty good body slams anyhow. But it never happened. We didn't do it, you know. And that's just one more, you know, one grain of sand and the on the long on the large beach outside of her palacial estate. I don't know.

I don't Oh my god, hold on, we have time a prince, Harry, I forget. Do you have a feeling of preference for about the royals? Like, are you a royal follower? Do you like the Royal family? What is your stance on the British Royal Family. I like them just for entered human value. I think they're, you know, some of the greatest actors on stage right. Okay, So I was absolutely indifferent when it came to the Royal family and completely uninterested and indifferent when it came to

Harry and Megan. But I have to say, I have to say I started watching the Netflix documentary and I have become a huge Harry and Meghan fan. I'm just I'm just I'm just in love. I'm in love with their story. I love their real nous. I love Harry. Harry is just so real and cool. He's just putting it all out there. I mean, aren't you Do you have a copy of Spare you must right? Um? Yeah, I got it on Kindle, but it's been like too emotionally taxing to dig into it. I might have to

wait a few years. I literally when we put it on, I was like, who fucking cares about these guys? Like I don't know why I would spend one second and then like half an hour into the first episode or whatever,

I was like, you're sobbing is so fascinating? Well no, but it's it's just so weird, right, Like they're like, oh, we met on Instagram or whatever, and maybe this is all a made up thing, Like I don't know, maybe that's like an invented but like it's not a normal narrative for the Royal Family that like people meet on Instagram.

So I feel like I don't know. And then the whole thing with you know, all of England being racist towards her is like fascinating and the Royal family being racist towards her, and I mean two things can be true at once, and as much as the British press is noxious and weird and just awful and the Royal family is you know, full of inbred just idiots, didn't like literally didn't go to school, correct, But also I find Megan Marco one of the most grading people alive today.

Really huh. Yeah, she's the kind of person who's like, I'm concerned about issues and rights. Right, Okay, you mean you think her she's she's so in love with this with this prince who's just dumb. Yeah, I mean is he dumb or is he um, you know, not that smart? I mean, I think there's a there's a distinction. I hear what you're saying. I there's there is a vagueness to her um I guess concerns or whatever her like

you know, causes. But like, also again, I think they're very charming and I love hearing about the like inside of their relationship in this whole world that they occupy, and frankly like his childhood and stuff about his mom, which really, like I have to stress. Up until the Netflix documentary, I had no interest in, Like, we tried to watch The Crown and I was like, I don't care like this is not interesting to me. I don't care about these people like they're having a bad time, Like, well,

they're fucking royalty. So I'm sure that their worst bad time they're having is better than like the best time that I've ever had, you know what I mean, Like the worst moment for Harry, it's probably better than any moment I'll ever experience in my life. So everything I know about managing I learned from the Queen, from watching The Crown the best. The best thing was sometimes no decision is a decision that's very good. Do you employ

that during the editorial meetings of Gawker? Just wat But it's a comfort to know that I can employ that when I'm talking to Winston Churchill or someone like him. Sure, yeah, Winston Churchill who had horrible gout or something? Right he was at any rate, I need to go into that horrible gout, very bad gout. I could barely walk. I'm not sure if he had gout or not. Actually, to be honest with anyhow, but one thing that does bother me about Hary Megan is that they say h and am.

I think when they talk about each other, like she'll be like h and it's like his name is Harry, Like you could just say it, like we all know who you're talking about, like one say the full name. Maybe it's easier it's a single syllable. I don't know. We had a we actually had a very good post about that on gawker dot com about them saying H

and M. No. It was before this. It was about how it's really annoying when people call their significant others by their initial Yeah, it is an unusual practice that I don't fully understand. If I'm reading an essay where they do that, I'm automatically disinterested and turned off. See it makes me think automatically, like I'm thinking about the sex diaries that they publish on New York Magazine, where they're always I feel like they're always like H called

and wants to go out tonight or whatever. It's like they have or they have these like weird code names for people, which like seems very unnatural. Like if you're in my experience, if you're in a relationship with someone, you don't typically have a code name that you use publicly for them. You might have a pet name that you use in private situations, you know, like snick or doodle or whatever. But for the record, I've never called anybody's neckerdoodle, nor will I ever. But that seems like

the kind of thing you might use in private. But like having like a just a letter or whatever, it seems unusual to me. It's off putting. It's impersonal, right, Like if if somebody were to refer to you as l on a regular basis, that would it would be strange, even if it was not like a romantic situation. Just any like why you know, it's not a nickname, Like

if you had a nickname, it's a different story. Okay, So Harry and Megan anyhow I was, I was just caught up in their story, you know, of the romance and then all the the stuff that happened in England and they had to leave, and and then I started hearing about this book that Harry has put out again. I was like, well, I'm not going to read the book. I mean, I watched the documentary. They seemed, you know, interesting, like I get learned a lot about how horrible the

British you know, royal family is um. But then his in his book, he's detailing a lot of strange stuff. It seems like like he killed a ton of people in Afghanistan, he said, right, like twenty five people. Like that on its own is a crazy fact to think about. For when when you think about Harry, he's just this like redheaded, like British royal family avatar, you know, like, oh, he's like kind of the dumb younger brother or whatever. That's his thing. But now I know he's like a

mass murderer, yes, and completely unconcerned about it. He's more you know, traumatized by like his brother not paying enough attention to him than he is by killing twenty people. Right, Well, I can understand that uma with an older brother. I think you you you long for their friendship, you don't have that experience sometimes when you don't get there, when you don't get their love and affection later in life, you have to kill people. That's just that's just a fact.

And then I guess he's that he did drugs according to Cox's house. Yeah, I don't know this is You're not interested in this at all. You don't care, No, I am. I think it's I always rooted for him, But I think Megan is just like so syrupy in a way that offends my sensibilities. I'm a dedicated Post reader now, because are you? Yeah, because you know, the New York Times is an arm of the Trump administration. So I've switched to the Post. Definitely think that interesting. Yeah,

that's so interesting. Case. I started getting the paper delivered again on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and I have to say, I'm not saying it's good or anything, but I do find that I'm like experiencing stories that I would otherwise. I guess you could get the Post delivered. They still make a paper, right, the Washington Post. I just think the Post congressional reporting is far superior to the Times.

That's my haughty opinion. Yeah, I find the Washington Post general output to be so full of spam and weird like hot takes that it's like I tend to ignore

most of their real reporting, which is a problem. Again, that's on you, no, but I feel like it's they've cluttered the messaging of what the Washington Post is with like a lot of random ship Like I feel like sometimes it's a little bit like a Forbes whoever, whoever, the whatever the site is, where they just will publish anybody's stuff, like they'll just you can just write anything

for them. I feel like Forbes is one of those websites now, but like where you're like, I don't am I reading like a real person's writing or is this like of thinly veiled ad for like a new razor? You know? Okay, So the Washington Post has a section called Inspired Life. Well, I guess it's a column and it's just it's just beautiful stories about humanity. Like today they wrote about that dog bus in Alaska where all

the dogs get on the bus. Oh, that was the one where I saw there's like a there's like a meme of the dogs getting on the bus right, and they're like, hijake, these dogs ride a bus like humans, And now the internet is in love. Yeah, so this is just like buzzfeeds beautiful. This is just a buzz food page. It's like Upworthy, but it's better written. And you know, they're like man discovers that his kidney is compatible with dying Olympic superstar or whatever. Is that a

real story to you? Just make that up? I just made that up. But do you actually like this? Do you really like this? I do? Yeah? Oh, I guess I subscribed to The Washington Post as well, digitally interesting. Just so flagrant with my spending on news that I don't even realize that I'm I'm also subscribed to this so interesting. This is you legitimately like this section? Yes, I love it. The Washington Post has great advice columns, like they have my favorite advice column, Miss Manners. They

have a Miss Manners. If you're not reading Miss Manners, I don't know what you're doing. I'm not reading Miss Manners. But let me give you a few. I want to give you a few headlines from Inspired Life from the section hundred year old woman makes custom jackets by hand and gives them away. Amazing handmade blankets for homeless, crafted with quote love come to Capitol Hill. I don't know why they. I don't know why they put love in quotes there. But Captain Sir Tom Moore's family is doing

what they can to fill his shoes. Was no. This dog has collected more than a thousand littered plastic bottles. That one was really good. Are you really reading these? Huh? Yeah? So strange. The dog is collecting these on purpose. M h. They don't think the dog knows that it's recycling or whatever. Right, The dog definitely knows and understands the concept of recycling. The dog is like, we've got to stop polluting the planet Earth. Let me help. Yeah, the dog is like

all these bottles wolf oh man. Okay, this is I'm really learning a lot about you. Okay, So, Miss Manners, you're saying, that's another section of the Washington Post that I should be reading. Okay, this is like, this is interesting. You and I are just doing like a little bit of a media tour, like just kind of traveling around the media landscape. All right, I'm looking at miss Manners. Now. I don't know if this makes for a compelling podcast,

but I'm certainly learning a lot. Miss Manner. I don't feel comfortable using the term baby mama. Okay, go back one more day. There was a really good one. You're saying, go back a day. What was the topic from a day ago? Yeah, there's one on like, um, a candelabra. Oh yes, oh my god. Miss Manners is displaying an unused candelabra, a decorative faux pap. Dear, Miss Manners, I have a lovely silver candelabra that is a family piece. I keep it on display on a sideboard in my

dining room with white taper candles. It is purely decorative. I have never had the occasion to use it for its intended purpose. At a shower at my house, one of my friends took me aside to tell me that I was committing a decorating slash etiquette faux pap by having unlit candles in the candelabra. She said that I should at least present the appearance that the candelabraa was used if I were going to display it. These are problems real people have, Josh, real people, this is some

heavy ship. I don't know if they are this is I mean, it's definitely. It's raising questions and making people making me feel ways that I haven't felt in a long time, just out of curiosity. Do you think the friend was right? Yeah, well I have a candle labra. If you're not going to use it, I mean, I think that's kind of like to me, that's a question about life really when you think of it. Absolutely, isn't a candle labra there to be to be populated with

candles and lit to illuminate a space. And if if it's not for that, what is the purpose? I guess you could say you you could admire. No, or just like a candle labra is not just for Jews. I mean lots of people use candle labros. But like, I guess you could just say, I like the way the candle labara looks. Isn't that enough for people? Don't you think? No, there's a code and Miss Manners follows it. Okay, it's

very sharp, Miss Manner. Seems like it's written by several people. Also, by the way, it's written by a woman and her daughter and her son. I think it's nepotism. This is a bunch of neppo babies, right, yeah, exactly right, speak of nappo babies. Great segue to the napa baby controversy. How where where do you come down on napa babies. I don't care. You don't have a preference, you're no strong opinion. I mean it's always interesting and kind of

comforting to find out someone's a nappo baby. Maybe you're competing against them for something, or you're jealous of them for some reason, and you find out their dad is so and so, and you're like, oh, got it? Okay, right, I mean, can you think of anybody that you're in competition with or that you are envious of or something. I'm not going to name names. Okay, you don't have the name names. But have you discovered that somebody that you might consider a rival or that you're in competition

with is a NAPA baby? Yeah? Really recently, you know, as funny is um. I think people think William Finnegan from The New Yorker is my father. I did lean into this by when he wanted I think a Politz that I tweeted congrats to my father, and then the Pulitzer organization retweeted it. So I think I contributed to this myth. No, are you serious? Wow? I encouraged this myth. But he's not my father. My father is a math teacher in Illinois, a college math teacher, right high school,

high school. There's no NAPA baby scenario where your father is a calculus teacher in high school and somehow you unless you become a calculus teacher in high school. Yes, I clawed my way to New York and I'm still holding on. There's no appotism in your family, correct, No, there's none in yours either. No. No, my family is complete trash on every level. Nobody's no successful people. Nobody

to hand us a break whatsoever. Quite the opposite. Actually, I'm not saying that I've had it the worst or anything. I certainly have that My parents are lovely, but they're clinically insane, and as you know, you you know my parents, they're lovely, lovely people. Uh so fun if you're not their child, I think, like the most fun. But definitely did not create any environments that would that made it easy for me to do whatever it is that I do.

There was no like on ramp like my dad, you know, my dad's old snack food for a living, like distributed snack food out of a van. He didn't have a podcast about snacks. You didn't have a podcast. He didn't start any media companies. He was not an editor or writer anywhere. No nothing there at all. So I guess I feel a little bit when it comes to the

Neva babies. I do feel a little bit, like you know, it's not envy exactly, but I wonder what it might be like to have options presented as kind of readily available that other people would have to work very hard for, like, because you know, like there are many people in our world, in the media world, who are other product of nepotism and maybe your rival that you were just talking about your company. Maybe I wish and say your rival, but

your compety titian that you won't name. I think it comes with a lot of complexes, and I'm actually glad I don't have that. And you have to feel like you can you surpass your parents? Yeah, slam dunk, mission accomplished. It must be a horrible feeling. I'm so glad I don't have to think about that because I can't even do any math. Oh you mean if you're if you're a nappo baby, you have to be like, can I be better? Like if you're Steve Martin son or whatever,

you're like, well, I ever be well? I ever do anything as funny as wearing the arrow head thing? Right, wasn't that his thing? He wore like it was like an arrow through his head? Yeah? Sure, I don't know. Okay, you're not a Steve Martin fan. Have you read his book Shop Girl? I like I like the jerk. That's not he didn't. I don't think he did. He write that. He wrote a serious and he's the star of the jerk. I know I've seen it. I've seen the jerk many times.

But have you read shop Girl his novel? Yes? I did. Did you like it? I liked it? Okay? Alright, anyhow, okay, any final thoughts here? I think we gotta wrap. This is a successful podcast. I know it's hard to say. It's hard to say I've enjoyed it. Will it be a podcast that's anybody's guests? I mean, I'm always I'm always honored to talk to you about current events. We haven't talked in a long time, and I mean we haven't talked like as just as friends, which we could

do whenever we want, but we haven't. And we haven't worked together in a long time. I mean it's been like nine months or ten months or I don't know how long it's been since we last worked together, a very long time. And and so I was just curious, like what's going on in your world? I get I kind of missed, you know, like I don't get to hear what's happening in Gawka every day, so I sort

of missed that. I'm like constantly impressed and like amused and interested in the things that Gawker is doing, but I do feel like I'm at a remove. You know, you don't invite me to any dinners, gawker dinners or anything. It's fine, I'm not I don't feel upset about it out of the fold choice. And honestly, most of the time I was invited to dinner, I bailed, So I think it's it's understandable that I wouldn't continue to be invited. I do wonder, you know, not really a nappa baby thing,

but I always wonder if I should schmooze more. You know, like, I feel like I'm not very good at schmoozing. You're not. You're not really big on schmoozing either. You don't like to schmooz. I'm gonna You don't like to attend parties and like strike up conversations with people not really know. You don't enjoy being the center of attention sometimes they do you do? Sure? M hmm? Interesting? I am a leo. Yeah, you know what that means, not really love attention. I'm not,

is that true? M hm hmm. Interesting. I mean I feel like if you do like to be the center of attention, you communicate that in a very subtle way. I feel like that you don't come off strongly as a person who wants to be like, have you know a spotlight on them? I'm succeeding. Okay, yeah, commission accomplished. But I feel like, you know, if you're a Nappa baby, you probably have to shmoo is as much either, right, They just put you on the conveyor belt to success.

It's like a thing like they have the supermarket. But when you get to the end of that, you get a TV show or a writing job on SNL or whatever. My favorite Nappo babies in the Nepo baby list are the guys who are the SNL guys. They're amazing there. I think they're very funny guys. I think they are legitimately funny. Clearly they grew up in you know, the presence of comedians. I should clarify. I don't think they're amazing because they're good at their jobs. I think it's

just amazing that they are so explicitly Nepo babies. Yeah, I mean it's interesting. I've always thought it was weird, like personally, and maybe it makes sense if your dad has a job, Like my dad's job never appealed to me, like I wasn't like it would be great to drive around, you know, delivering snack food to people. And I'm not saying he I don't think he loved it, but he

did it and it was fine. It's hard to imagine having like a situation where you're like, oh, my dad's like a writer for a comedy show or something, or like my dad's on TV, and like that's what I'm gonna do. Like I feel like you reject that. Like I feel like it's it's a child's natural inclination to reject becoming like their parents. But then what is a child of a celebrity d sells neck food? Yeah? Maybe how does the universe balance out? Yeah? I don't know.

It's like when Daniel dey Lewis quit acting he became a cobbler. You know, maybe it's like you have to experience something like that first. I don't know. I don't. Let's ask Jacob Dilan. You know what's he up to these days? Jacob Dylan did? He spend a lot of time not wanting to become a musician and then was finally like, well, I can't do anything else or I'm not going to make it at any other category. You

write one great song and just fade away. That's the dream. Yes, one headlight the name of the song, one song, one headlight that one headlight. Your dad has a hundred million dollars. You're totally chill, You're fine. Yeah, that's the life alright. Any final words for the listener? Um, Baby just bark. She's barking a little again. Baby has time to wrap up. Follow Baby on Instagram. Read Gagger dot com, Josh, I'll talk to you. M're doing oh man, so many great things,

so much stuff to talk about. I'll be honest with you. I expected Leah to have a I don't know why, a slightly more positive opinion of Harry and Megan. I guess I thought for some reason. And again, I honestly don't know why I thought this, but that when I said that I liked Harry and Megan, she would agree with me, and she didn't. I mean, she doesn't dislike them. It sounds like, well, actually she maybe doesn't love Megan. I thought that was interesting. Just generally speaking, I don't

know why. I feel like everybody's been won over by Harry and Megan. That's I guess that's my problem. I have some kind of damage that. Again, I'm not like hanging posters of Harry and Megan in the in the house or something. But I surprised myself in being like weirdly won over by their kind of I don't know, like maybe I bought into the pr bullshit. They seem just really like real people. And also I just feel

like we get this peak. I don't know, it's so interesting that they're even doing the thing they're doing that going like, oh, here's what's really going on. But maybe that's the and Leah sort of suggested this, that's the whole game, that this is all in act? Is it all in act? It's just like they come back to the Royal family in a few seasons, like you know

what I mean. It's like, um, it's like a character on like a TV show who's like goes evil, you know, and you're like, oh my god, they turn to evil, but then somehow they come back to like the good side.

Because it's all just like these this is the reverse of that, right, They're like, we're they went good, but it's just for a few seasons, and the like the fans are going to be like, we demand that they be come back to the Royal family as like part of the evil operation, you know, like maybe in maybe in their later years, they'll be like, Wow, this is really working out. I don't know anyhow, I thought that was interesting that that she had a not a strong negative,

but just not a strong positive. I just feel like they've taken the world by storm. Everybody's just charmed. I'll tell you they have not charmed my house. Nobody's charmed over there. You don't find Harry Megan charming. No, but

I haven't watched the Netflix. I just saw a clip where like an interviewer asked Megan what TV shows they're watching, and then she took five minutes to say that they don't watch TV, but then to say that there's a lot of incredible TV happening out there, and then ultimately said white lettis, I don't remember that at all. I do think the documentary is interesting. I do think that there's some fascinating sort of behind the scenes stuff there

that I've certainly never seen or heard. And maybe, like I'm more affected because they go into a bit about Harry's childhood and Diana and the relationship between the royal

family and the press. They go into a lot and for me, as like a media guy, this is really interesting They talk a lot about the relationship between the press and the royal family and how coordinated they are and how like what's really odd and it's sort of like upsetting is like how when Harry and William are kids, like how much they're part of the whole thing, And uh,

that part I thought was really affecting. It kind of was like, Oh, it put a spin on all of it, like in a way that I hadn't really felt before, where I'm like, oh, there's like some there's something here more than just like Harry doesn't like being a royal anymore. Harry wants a break free of his big brother. He's not going to be the king, so he wants out

of there. And it was a little bit more like, Oh, there's something legitimately weird about the way this kid was brought up, Not obviously because he's like a prince in England, but there's something legitimately upsetting about the way he was treated as a child. Like that you can kind of see they have like footage of and stuff, and it's like, oh, yeah, that I mean that. The Oprah interview when they explained that they basically sat them down and said that they

were no longer going to have security. Yeah, after like years of threats and once they had children. That to me, I was that that was like the most affecting thing that I heard from that, the idea that they then they had had like death threats against their baby, they are no longer going to protect them. It's scary. It's really weird. I mean, it's it's it's truly like, you know, it's hard. I guess it's again it's hard to feel sympathetic for like the royal family. It is like it's

definitely tough to be do not go well. You definitely may have some unusual or uncomfortable situations or some even horrible ones, but like also you have fifteen colonies or whatever that you own, you know, or have previously owned, where you're like on the money. So it's sort of like, I don't know how bad could it be. It seems bad, but like it's degrees of badness because like I said, their worst day ever is probably better than both people's

best day. What Future is an iHeart Media podcast. Our executive producer is Lyra Smith. You probably hear Lyra from time to time. Adam Wanda is our editor, and Jenna hagel Is are super revising producer. If you like the podcast, which I think that you do. You made it this far, I would love it. If you want to, you know, go and review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you can do five or six or seventh star review for us. That would be great. We love that. It really helps

and uh. You can also follow me on a variety of social networks. You can find me on Twitter, which I now hate. My name is Joshua Tapulski. There, on Instagram, I'm at Joshua Topolski. On mastadon I'm at Joshua Topolski. But you really have to, you know, hunt around for me because it's a little complicated. And I'm on TikTok but I would not recommend following me there because it's all very sexy dancing