Hello, Lyra, Yes, Josh.
I have some sort of bad news. Are you sitting Are you sitting down always? Oh?
Really, that's weird. Always sitting down.
That seems like I'll be honest, that seems like too much.
Sitting at my desk, come at work.
I'm not a doctor. I'm not a doctor. I'm not a physician. I'm not a physical therapist. I'm not even a chiropractor, although I think I could be with a minimal amount of training.
From what I understand. But anyhow, I am in a hotel room.
I've been traveling and I did not bring I'm so dumb. I'm so very stupid that I didn't bring any of my recording equipment. And so I don't know if if we can do this via phone call, but I offer to you the opportunity, frankly, the gift really to do this pod, this episode of What Future via the telephone is that? Is that an an?
Well, you know what's incredible is that I had a feeling and I've been recording this whole call.
You're recording.
Well, I did tell you that I was maybe not going to be able to I mean I sort of and I feel like I gave hinted.
At least it is you're spoiling to magic.
Well, I don't want to stay.
I mean, is that a little too I feel like that's a little too fortuitous that you have to be recording.
Okay, we plan to record this. No, sorry, no fun. Nobody gets to have any fun.
I don't know.
Fine, Okay, you're a genius.
You knew I was gonna fucking not have my mic with me, and you decide to record this, and it's all my fault. Yeah, that this is going to sound slightly less good than the other podcast I do.
It's kind of fun to have a phone call.
I love having phone calls. I love talking on the phone. I love talking, actually, and I wish I could do more of it.
I wish all I could do is talk. I wish I just had to talk.
I wish that none of the other stuff that goes around, like the talking had to exist, like you know, after I talk. I don't want to have to execute on any of the things I've said. You know, in business, a lot of the time I'll be like we should do X, you know, and then people are like, that's a great idea, and then I have to go do it. You know what would be great is if it were like we should do X, and then I just can leave, just walk away, and it just happens. I suppose that's
like what people at the very top do. Like Jeff Bezos, He's like, why don't He's like, why don't we make a book? And they're like, all right, Jeff, and then they make the kindle you're seen. Have you ever seen the first kindle? It?
I remember when people had it.
But it's a completely deranged looking device. I mean, first off, it is. The design of it is completely weird. It's super angular, It has a keyboard, uh you know, it has a weird strip, a thing that's like a strip that you use to scroll on it.
It's a bizarre device.
Anyhow, Bezos maybe it's like that because he said that and then he left the room and Noboby.
People are like, will you just do whatever?
Anyhow?
That's did you watch the BlackBerry movie?
I didn't, But when when I was at the when I was, you know, running the Verge. Actually, not that long after we started it, we had a writer of ours write a huge story about sort of the rise and fall of BlackBerry, which was that what BlackBerry is no I don't think so, I don't. I don't believe it is. Actually I don't know. I haven't seen it. Maybe they've stolen the wholesale see from our story, but I.
Think it says it's based on a book on a book.
No, I haven't seen it, but I'm surprised to hear so. I've heard a lot of people say it's good, and I'm surprised. I have to admit, it's the kind of movie that I looked at and I was like, this.
Will not be a good movie. No one wants to see this movie.
I mean, I can imagine myself enjoying it because I'm a huge fucking nerd. But I've heard, on more than one occasion from more than one person who isn't necessarily a huge fucking nerd, that it's very entertaining.
It's a sleeper hit, it's got good. It's a critical.
Darling, is it?
Who could have seen that coming? I mean that's crazy.
I mean I like J.
Baruchell Brukel Baruke him and Glenn Howardton.
Yeah.
See the thing that bothers me is that he J. J.
Brukews.
That's how I say it.
It looks like he's wearing. He just looks like he's super young. But he's wearing a gray wig like in the scenes I've seen from the trailer.
That's true, And.
It's like kind of bothers me because it's like, because's supposed to be an older guy because he looks like he's like seventeen.
Well, Glenn Howardton's bald cap two is pretty silly.
Yeah, anyhow, so I don't know, you know, what's going on in the world, what's going on.
Summer's over, right, I mean, that's it. The summer's dead, you know.
But then you know, it's funny because God, you know who I believe in, and is definitely controlling the weather. God had other plans for us, you know, you thought you know that, you know the famous they famously say, you may be done with the past, with the past is done with you. That's sort of how I feel about the weather. You know, you may be done with the weather, but the weather is not done with you. And we all thought, hey, summer's over, it's time to experience.
Well you didn't think this because you live in Los Angeles, so for you, it's always summer, which is wonderful, but or horrible, depending on how you feel about summer. But here on the East Coast, where the elites live, where the elite, the educated elites live and operate, where all of the elites control all of the world's banking and and higher education institutions. Anyhow, it's very hot now, you know,
it's hot. It's very warm. And you know, people say it's boring to talk about the weather, and maybe they're right, you know, maybe those people are onto something.
Anyhow, So what is there to talk about the weather? I mean, it is interested, you.
Have to admit, I mean, of all the things you might discuss, is it is kind of important? Right?
Do I have to admit that?
I mean, I think one has to admit the weather is as especially as of late, very interesting.
Okay, that is true. I did spend a lot of time reading about the hurricane.
Yeah, And I don't know, I don't know do we even consider the wildfire's weather? Are they their weather related? Right? I mean the wildfires are happening because of like dry heat, right. So you know New York was like covered in a red smog for like multiple days. You couldn't breathe outside. And you know, that's a pretty interesting phenomenon. I think that's like worth talking about anyhow. The point is the weather is a topic that people can talk about. It's
certainly something that's been on my mind right now. It's it's ninety. I don't know why you're laughing at me. This is all very serious and important to uff. It's eighty not no, I'm just like.
The idea of offering weather as a topic.
I just think they've heard.
Oh you think you don't think they need buy approval, Yeah, saying I don't need to put my stamp of approval on the topic of the weather is a conversation.
But you know what, it's nice and reassuring because people often talk down about it as a topic.
I think we go through life not being entirely sure of ourselves about a lot of things. And I think sometimes you might bring up the weather and you start talking about it, and then that little voice inside your head that talks to you while you're talking.
Does everybody have that? I certainly do.
It starts to go, starts to go. Man, this sounds fucking stupid, and you sound like the most boring person in the world talking about like that it's going to rain later today or whatever. But I think people need to be they need to be reassured, and they need to know that it's okay and that that voy is wrong. That voice is the only time that voice is right is when it tells you to kill people because you
need to do Satan's bidding. That's the only time you should ever listen to that voice, in my opinion, And uh, you know, have.
You I'm curious have you had any epiphanies lately?
Epiphanies? A weird question have you had any any epiphanies lately? Is like have any miracles happened to you recently? That's like like have you win the lot Have you won the lottery recently? Because had any miracles happen? No, I would say my life recently has been a series of reverse miracles, uh whatever, whatever. Those would be called traged tragedies, miniature tragedies, little micro tragedies, which is a new thing that I just invented. It's like a microaggression, but it
is happening. It's happening to you, and it's personal, but it's not that big of it.
It's like what I some I've said this before at work because I didn't want people to panic. But instead of saying I have a family emergency, I've said I have a family urgency.
Oh that's nice, that's really interesting.
I like to tell people I have a family emergency, like even if it's not really an emergency, just to see what kind of reaction I get out of them. I'd like to see, like, I'd like to see how they Some people want to Some people will engage with that. Some people are like, I got to get how do I get out of this as quickly as possible?
What's your favorite reaction? What do you want them to do?
I want people to I want to see concern. I want to see people have that face like you know, they don't know what it is. It could be a death, It could be a car.
Accidents a word for this.
It could be marital distress. It could be your parents are bothering you. It could be your parents somebody your parents are sick, somebody's in the hospital. It could be your child, is something wrong with your child, whatever it is, it's terrible when you.
Say family emergency.
It could be somebody in your family is a terrible alcoholic and you have to do an intervention.
You know that kind of stuff. I mean what goes through your mind when somebody says family emergency.
What do you think? What's the first thing you say? Oh?
I think death?
Death. Yeah.
See, I don't think they'd say that.
I think they'd say I had a death in the family, or they'd say my uncle died or.
Someone or someone is dying.
Yeah, I don't know.
I guess like a family emergency, I guess you could say that.
I guess that was just my last My last family emergency was somebody was passing away.
Right, passing away.
I think that's an interesting term, passing away. I think it's too soft of a term. I think we should confront death directly. I think passing away sounds like actually pretty pleasant, Like they passed away, you know, they floated off into the ether. You know. One of the things when you in journalism, you're not supposed to write in like a headliner or a story like somebody passed away. That's like this weird editorializing about death. Right, you're supposed
to say they died. Like you look at the New York Times. They don't write so and so passed away. They write so and so died. That's the journalistically sound way to do it. It's just a fact. Sure, right, there's just no it's funny. I'm talking about death earlier with someone I was saying. I was talking to a friend of mine and she was something that she had bought a very expensive bag and then decides to return it and then couldn't return it. And she was like,
why did I buy this bag anyhow? And I was like, oh, because you're trying to escape the thought of death, you know. And then I went into this whole spiel about it. And I can't remember some very important philosopher I was talking about this or I was reading it. You know that everything that we do in life, literally everything is like basically an attempt at diverting our attention away from
the inevitability of death. And like every literally everything, like the way we form societies, like having kids, like buying a bag, you know, doing whatever, it's all and you know, it kind of checks out, like like it checks out to me, Like I think no one wants to sit around and think about their demise. They want to be like I need new shoes, or I should have a child or whatever people think. I don't know. I don't know what people think because I'm not I'm not in
that group. I'm not in the group of people. I'm outside that group. I'm pressed up against the glass looking at the people, wondering what are the people doing? And I'm on the other side. Who's with me?
I don't know.
It's a weird scene. Actually, where am I? Why is there glass there at all? A lot of unanswered questions in this scenario. But the point is, I guess I don't feel like I'm in touch with my fellow humans lately the way I used to. You know, do you ever feel that?
Yeah?
I mean I feel like you feel alienated from humanity and society.
Yeah, pretty often.
Yeah, that's weird. That's a weird feeling. I don't know anyhow.
So, Yeah, it's hot outside, very hot. Death is imminent and upon us everywhere. Now that I think of it, should we pause? Of course? I never listened to the show, But what I've been told is that the show has commercial breaks in it. So do we need to stop and then start again?
I think so, and we should do that. I had an epiphany recently.
Oh you hadn't all you have to have had any epiphanies. Let me here, let me hear about your epiphany. I I had. I have not had my No, I've had no epiphanies. And if anything, my mind has been very cloudy lately, very very muddled, very unable to discern answers.
But tell me about your epiphany.
So I was at Starbucks, okay, and a woman came in.
She was.
Of the Karen ilk Oh Karen. You know she physically, you know, appeared as a Karen.
She had one of those weird like Rod Stewart haircuts or something or you.
Know, close close to you know, I tense stuff.
Yeah, okay, she came in.
She came in hot, She walked straight to the register. She had something to say, and I kind of like.
You know, you're like, here we go.
Yeah, she was like I called, I got big long thing. She had a big order. She you know, had expectations and she was laying it all out. And the young man said, oh, Susanne, yeah, I remember you something something, and the woman's face, like her entire demeanor melted away, and she said, you remembered my name. And I realized that when young white women are you know, young, pretty prime of their life, attractive, they get all this special attention.
Pretty privileged guys remember their names they use it in conversation. They get this kind of you know, this this little perk. These they get these talks all.
The time, yeah perk, And they get them.
Because it's just nothing that they've done. It's just the way they look. Because you know, we.
Live in a culturist society.
We have our white privileged society that is exacerbated when you're a young pretty girl, right, and as they get older and they lose those special young white girl privileges, people in service especially aren't like meeting their expectations.
They harden.
You're saying, this causes them to.
Harden, and they get upset and they're not even necessarily mad at the person. They're mad that like they've lost this thing that they could never quite put their finger on. They've always been given this special treatment and now it's gone and they're mad. And I think that's how a Karen is born.
That's interesting, that's the epiphany you had. You think you've got to solve the Karen riddle. I mean that is interesting. Yeah, I mean I think there's something interesting about that theory. I mean, obviously there are societal forces that act on a Karen to create that. You know, it's not just
born out of nothing. I do have to wonder if it's not more a manifestation of a sense of entitlement generally than a specific losing of that entitlement, although it does kind of it does kind of map to what you're saying, in the sense that, like, if you've been treated special because you're like, you know, even like a reasonably attractive young white woman or whatever people are, you know, society has been arranged to kind of like be especially
nice to you, and then suddenly you're not that anymore. You've aged. I guess you're saying it's someone who's aged and they now have been perhaps getting a treatment that doesn't feel as special. I guess that could bring that entitlement out of the person further.
You know, I don't know.
I'm the kind of person who rarely, if ever feel entitled to anything. And you know, when I was dating, I would ask the girl if I could kiss her, you know, and I wouldn't just make a move. I wouldn't make a move. I wasn't like I'm going to and fucking just do it because the moment has struck me. I'd be like, is this okay? Like I don't know, it seems like I should, but it's like in the moment, i'd be like, before I do this, just one quick. I'm not like mister consent or anything. I'm not trying
to be like I'm so progressive. I'm just saying like I'm not saying I'm not mister.
Not mystery, I'm mister.
But I'm saying it wasn't like, oh my god, I got to get the verbal yet, you know. It's just more like I don't know. This could go bad, Like this person could really not want me to kiss them.
So I don't know. I'm just thinking like when I think of entitlement, I think of like somebody was telling me a story the other day about about somebody they worked with who was like sexually harassing them and sending them these like crazy messages, and I was like, you know, there was like this slightly older man, you know, sending
these messages to a woman. And I was like, and it was a getting completely inappropriate, totally out of context, totally like you know, basically criminal as far as I'm concerned.
And I was like, I don't, I don't really know.
I can't not tap into the sense the feeling that I could just do that to a person, that there was any reason why I would do that. I find it unusual to feel like the idea that you know, it's like, I mean, I've taught people told me, when women have told me they're like, oh yeah, like guys little like grab my ass on the street or something. I'm like, that's crazy to me. That seems crazy, But it is interesting. I guess the flip side perhaps or
some part of that whatever that entitlement is. Speaking of entitlement, it's the kind of male privilege entitlement about how they can.
Be with women.
But in a way you're saying that Karen is the inverse to that. It is the reaction to the losing of some part of that kind of attention. Nothing, it's all nothing, all like harassment. No, but but there is a but there is a an element to that treatment that is like because they are young and pretty and white often right, I mean, it's like not purely sexual, but certainly a kind of like undercurrent of wanting to win favor with sex pretty lady, yeah, sex appeal.
Right, Yeah, I'll tell you I had another less fun epiphany.
But Siah, exactly what you're talking about here, lay it on.
Me as soon as I became an actual adult, like my frontal lobe finish developing. Yeah, cat calling dropped ninety percent.
Really, and I had.
I've been physically assaulted, I've had you know, the guys grab your ass et cetera, like random guys on the street.
I've had. I've lived all of that.
Yeah, and once I became like an adult who could be like a consenting adult to this, you know, I mean it's we all know what it is. They're just being predatory. They don't actually want to find a woman who's like turned on by that and wants sex with them in return. But but no, once you become an adult adult, men stop this. Like what we now know is like a charade of.
Like, hey, I'm just hey, I'm just putting it out there.
Baby.
It's like, no, you're not. You're going after little girls.
Do you think do you think sorry? Do you say you think it's that.
It's maturity that now is like that's no longer appealing to that particular strain of dude. Or is it that your demeanor change in a way that made you less that made them less likely to respond like that? No?
No, no, when you're a young girl, your demeanor is fear, or at least for me, you know. It's like it's not like I was walking around Nightmare at like sixteen and that's why they went for me. It's like, no, I looked terrified.
Let me be clear, sorry, let me.
Did I look tough once I got old?
Saying that like maybe you know that, yeah, that you got you toughened up as you got older, and it was less, you know, it was like more intimidating to the guys who might who might otherwise, you know, respond that way to somebody who's younger. You know.
Now, I've been wearing like four layers of winter clothes in a blizzard and had a guy yell at me.
From his Interesting, that's interesting, That's what you know. Something.
I was walking down the street the other day speaking of cat calling, and there were these two very good looking guys walking together, and a guy came by on a bike and he was like, oh yes, daddy. He's like yes to both of you daddies, like literally just like that as he cruised by, and I was like, first of all, I was like, for a second when he said oh yes, daddy, I was like, is he talking to me for just one little moment, I was like, is this guy hitting on me on his city bike?
He wasn't, because there were beautiful muscular men walking past me, but two guys who were definitely daddy in question anyhow. But I have never been fucking cat called. I have no idea what the experience is like. It'd be different for me than it is for you. Obviously. Even if it were a big burly man and I got cat called, I'd be like, that's pretty flattering, I have to say, I feel because I'm not walking around it. I haven't walked around in fear of predators my whole life, obviously.
You know, maybe I don't even said this before on the podcast. I don't know, I just think it would be nice, you know, Like, I don't know what it's like. I'm a you know, as a man, and you know, I wouldn't sound like a John Hamm type of guy. You know, I'm not like a Brad Pitt, you know, I'm not a I'm more like a.
I'm more like a.
I don't know, like a Jene Wilder kind you know, more Gene Wilder kind of character. You know. Uh So, I don't know what it's like for someone to aggressively sexually pursue me, and uh, I'm not complaining, Well maybe I am. I mean, I guess it sounds like it could be scary. Obviously for a woman, it sounds like a horrible experience. Wilder, it might be a very nice experience.
They're not actually sexually pursuing you. They are trying to scare you.
I like how I like how you're you seem a little at Matt, like agitated about the fact that these guys aren't aren't willing to follow through on their on their cat call, like they won't take you on a tape.
Well, if if it.
Was, then it would it wouldn't mean that they were like targeting vulnerable populations.
You're saying, right, you're saying that there's a scenario where somebody's like, hey, baby, why don't you bring that over here or whatever.
I don't know what a cat call sounds like, but maybe something like that, and then the woman's like all right, and then they're like, hey, like what are you doing Friday night? And you think that, like, is that's a thing that might happen. It doesn't happen.
I have seen actually I've seen a woman do that on the subway to a man and get his number.
I have seen that.
Of course a woman can do it. A woman has followed through. Yes, he's not doing it like a man.
So I do think that that would be a better than what it actually is. But you've got to go and we can talk about this.
I had to have to go, But I think to recap, it's hot, it's summer's not over. You may be through with the with the summer, but the summer is not through with you. Cat Calling is largely bad unless you're me, in which case he would be a compliment and a wonder for pleasure to experience. I just want to make sure I've got all of it. Oh and the BlackBerry movie is pretty good and I should check it out.
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, that was a great round.
Great, it's a lot of food for thought. You know, I have a lot to think about.
Oh, well, you know Karens.
That's just Karens. Yeah right. Your grand unified theory of Karens, which I think is actually perhaps the most important takeaway from this show, is that you have solved You actually have maybe figured out how we can stop Karens. From being produced in society, which is, we need to be way, way, way nicer to women, no matter what age they are and no matter how they look. We should be nice to women and help them out and remember their names.
In fact, I'll just expand that to people. We should be nice to people and remember who they are and treat them with kindness and respect, and then nobody will become an entitled maniac who yells at a target employee because she has to wear a mask.
We should treat all people with kindness and respect, regardless of their physical.
Appearance, unless they have a swastika tattoo.
Okay, yeah, that's the one exception, unless they're like a one of these guys with the swastika tattoo who's.
Now seen the error of their way formed and his reform.
Is actually like and actually loves Jews and black people like. Because if that person, we should embrace and say you did it. You've you've overcome your your bad upbringing or whatever cause you to become an autot.
Do you want to wish anything to the listeners?
I mean, honestly, I hope that they don't end up in a situation. What I'd say is, like you know obviously you.
Know I'm seeing up your sign off.
Yeah, I see, I know, obviously that is our show. We'll be back next week with more What Future, and I won't be on the phone, but what I might and I what I wish for people is is is not the very best, but I my wish is that they they never end up in a situation where they have to record a podcast and they they've left their podcast microphone at home because it's obviously embarrassing and Bushley an amateur hour. And and I wouldn't want anybody to have an egg on their face quite the way I
do right now. Is that an expression egg on your face is not a thing that people say.
Huh huh.
Okay. I would like to explore that for the next episode of What Future, I'd like to do a deep.
Dive on the egg on your face expression and what it really means.
Okay, great, Okay, goodbye bye.