Hey, and welcome to What Future. I'm your host, Joshua Topolski, and I gotta say, you know, I had a long intro where I was going to talk about my feelings on the Barbie trailer and how I feel about what Gretti Gerway has done with the Barbie character and the Internet's reaction to Barbie and Ken and all of the memes.
There were so many memes. But I ended up having an amazing conversation with the actor Bex Taylor Klaus, who you may have seen in things like Thirteen Reasons Why or the Scream TV series, and we had this sprawling, super fascinating conversation that ended in a very interesting discussion of gaming and men any forms. And so I don't want to waste any time, you know, talking about the Barbie trailer or any other trailers. Frankly, I just want to get into this conversation, so let's not waste one
more minute. And so your last name is pronounced. I don't want to say it right, Claus Taylor Klaus, wrong us clouds. You don't want to say it right. You want to say get up right off the perfect I want to say it Laus Klauses. But that's more. That sounds like I like a German villain and a not you. But I'm if I say it like that, I have to put myself in the mindspace of a person with a German accent. Oh yeah, it's great. Is it a
German name? It is. Purportedly we changed it from something super Jewish to try to sound a little bit more assimilated and under the radar when we came over here. I wish my family had done that. Look, we're just gonna keep it to Pulsky. That should be fine. No one will have any problems with that spelling or pronunciation. Meanwhile, your family was like, just cut it down, we need like a single syllable something that is kind of a
little bit. Klaus could be anything. And then the other side had Grossman, so they were very short, so it didn't make any sense. Yeah, that's a tough one. I don't know. It's funny. My wife is a huge genealogy I mean, I think she's actually a professional technically speaking,
but she does it as a hobby. So she knows everything about my family and everything about people who who have come to this country, and all of has all these crazy records of people coming from Eastern Europe and all over the world, and oh my god, it's crazy. And there is this persistent rumor that, oh, my family got to Ellis Island and they couldn't spell their name, or they misheard it, or they didn't understand. But a lot moten have a favorite joke about that. Right now,
do you wait? Are you to tell me? Oh? Absolutely if you want to hear it when you're done. But the only timey thing is that, apparently, in most cases, the real story is that people were like, oh, I got to America. I can now change my name from something that will not be easy to assimilate to something that will be easier for people to like say, or you know here, or just and just be like, okay, you're an American or whatever. So there's a lot of
people changing their own names. But anyhow, let me hear it. Let me hear your joke. A rabbi said this, and I've been obsessed with it ever since. Two guys coming over on Ellis Island. They're in the line and one of them goes, so have you chosen your name yet? And the other guys go, what come again? Now, the guy explains, it's like you want to change your name so it sounds less conspicuous. Let's jewish all these things. So what's your name, Jacob Gottlieb. Okay, let's come up
with something, maybe Jake Shaw. Sure. The guy in front of him goes it was his name that gets up to his time and he goes hoop shinea Ferguson, which in Yiddish means I've already forgotten. And the guy goes, all right, welcome to America, Sean Ferguson. That's good, that's good. That's a real Jewish joke. That's a real like classic. Not only a rabbi could tell that, Joe, only a rabbi in you could tell that. And of course the rabbi manages to make this entire speech about how have
we already forgotten? How we were treated, how we treat others? Beautiful, beautiful sermon starts with the most the most Jewish jew joke I've ever heard. Oh that's the opening, that's the opening to that. That's so interesting. I actually wanted to ask you about this. You're Jewish, you were raised Jewish? I was raised Jewish. Are you are you a practicing Jew? I am? I'm the kind of jew that gets anxious when I'm not doing the satyr and my family is
not doing the Sator. But if my family's doing the sata, it's fine for me not to be doing the sata because I just get to say amen from the other side of the country. Right. We had to bail on our stata because my wife is very sick and basically nobody eats meat, but for Passover we'll get brisket because you know it's Passover, it's a requirement. I usually am like, Okay, I'll eat sonka if I have to, I'll eat some brisket, I guess. And we got five pounds of brisket we
ordered from this place around here. That's so it's so good, amazing, And then we had to cancel the satyr. So I've just been working my way through five pounds of brisket personally, like literally nobody else in the family eats it. So so I think out what I've been doing with our three pounds of brisket. Yeah, it's like it's like we're like a weekend. I'm like, I'm not sure this is even like I can still eat this, but it's safe,
don't care. Yeah, no, I mean it tastes okay, So I'm just gonna roll with it until something seems funny. But you're from Atlanta, you were raised in Atlanta? Is that correct? Born and raised in Atlanta. So I don't meet a lot of Southern Jews, like I don't meet a lot of people who are both like from the southern region. We can safely consider Atlanta southern, right, I mean, it's definitely it's of all the southern, of many of the southern places. It feels like it's pretty fucking progressive,
comparatively little blue gem on the buckle of the Bible belt. Right. But I mean, what was that like growing up in the South as a Jew Because, like my experience is I grew up in Pittsburgh, which is a huge Jewish population, so I was like around Jewish people all the time, even though I rejected God ultimately. But um, that's my favorite thing about Judaism is you get to be an agnostic or an atheist jew and it's you're still like,
there's no escape me. It's like, yeah, that's social Jewish part of it just gets like seeped in and then you're yeah, and it's almost like a religious requirement to question the very existence of God at a base level, so like, yeah, it's chill. Yeah, no, you're definitely like a real Like I remember talking to my mom about God, you know, because I started when I was a kid. I started to go like, this doesn't making a lot of sense to me. People are talking a lot about God,
but I kind of don't believe it. And I was like, what's what it is? God? What is Who's God? And my Mom's like, God is everything, God is the trees, God is there. I'm like, okay, so you don't really buy it either, like you're kind of like God exactly. She wasn't like, oh, well, the God is in heaven and does you know gave the commandments and anyhow, it's nebulous. It's weird. It's a bush that is on fire and continues to be on fire. It's weird. It's it's so weird.
But so what was that like in the South, Because, um, you know, especially if you're like if you're you know, practice practicing jew and you've had a Jewish family, I'm just so curious And maybe it's a stupid question. Maybe it's like there are a million Jews in the South, and I'm just I haven't met any of them. There are no stupid question. Well, I don't know. I bet I could come up with it. I have a feeling I could come up with a few stupid questions. But like,
was that was that weird? Were you ostracized as as a as a Jew in um what would be considered a very Christian area, Yes, and no. I grew up with a thriving, bustling Jewish community. The resurgence of the KKK and the American South happened in I think the sixties with the lynching of a Jewish man named Leo Frank. So, to be fair, it's scary there. My cousin's synagogue, a very established synagogue, has at least one bomb threat a week, and they just continue because that's the norm. And at
the same time I did. I grew up with a thriving and bustling Jewish community sprawling across Atlanta. See, as long as you're inside the perimeter, it's called IP inside the perimeter, and OTP is outside the perimeter. Atlanta is surrounded by highway and that's called the perimeter. Right once you're outside the perimeter, it's Scaryville, USA is outside the perimeter,
like very rural, is it very country? Some parts? It's also like there's areas outside the perimeter that are just fancy, rich white town, and then there's also a town that's just all country, all acreage, all run down gas stations. It's right, once you get outside the perimeter, it's it's the eclectic nature of Georgia again, Like you went from scary to eclectic, which I think is a real look, very very savvay charming depending on what you look like.
You're like suddenly it could be charming and beautiful depending on how much privilege you have, right, I mean, you know, it's it's always interesting because I'm for me like, well, I'm a white guy, right, that's I'm a white guy. Yeah, yeah, I feel like people And this is true because like in New York, you know, there's there will be Jewish guys that come up to me and are like, do
you want to dove in with us? Do you want to you know, it's like during the holidays, they'll just walk up to you and be like, well you're Jewish, right, And I'm like, first off, that's and I'm like that's anti Semitic, and yes I am Jewish. Actually both correct and defensive. I both resemble and resent that totally. But but yeah, I mean I think so I have a my bar for you know, when things get scary, it's probably different. Right. But so you were inside and you
were in a community of other Jewish people. Did you ever firsthand experience anti Semitism? There was there ever any like? Could you feel it? Could you see it? Absolutely? The KKK was alive and well outside the perimeter. I would travel for rural softball games and you know, pass not just Confederate flags, but like blatant Nazism out there. It's
it's yeah, I guess this. I sound so naive, but I you know, grew up in a place where I mean, I can tell you in my life I've never don't think I've ever been in the same room or on the same street with somebody who was like a clan member, like as far as I know, I mean, you know, like I don't know, have you you saw people like
in the road. I didn't grow up on the same street as like a clan member, but I did grow up on the same neighborhood as a guy who had a Confederate flag lanyard and black family that didn't hang out with us once they found out we were Jewish and not Christian. Oh really, it's a very strange reality in Atlanta to get bought insane tolerance and insane just like cognitive dissonance. Yeah, that's wild. I mean it is interesting. I will say this, like I was talking to somebody,
a non Jew recently. I was explaining how Jews people love Seltzer, and I don't know if this is I believe that this is true in my life experience. Everybody in my family was like not just like I enjoy sparkling water, but like obsessed with Seltzer and and he was surprised to hear that this was the thing amongst Jews. Are you Are you a Seltzer fan? Was your family
into Seltzer out of curiosity? Oh yeah yeah big time, like soda streams and as well as like favorite brands for like when we're too lazy, and then like a system for the soda streams to have cool water ready to put it. I get the cold water you have. But see, it's interesting. That's like one of those things that like you can meet a kind of a Jew anywhere, and that it's just one of those things that's just like, oh yeah, the Seltzer thing or whatever. You know, It's
it's weird because there's so few Jews. It's not like there's none of us, but they're actually on the planet. Are not very many Jews if you just look at the numbers, the raw numbers, and people got wiped out and the population just never recovered. Yeah, and it's a
really really small number. But like I do feel like, I mean, you see this, like you know, the ship with like Kanye or whatever, and it's like, okay, well, there's this persistent idea that Jews are like really super duper important and that has just like never stopped being a thing amongst like a you know, certain people for certain people who already are inclined not to like us.
But but it's funny because it does feel like there's these things that are the very cultural and knowable even if you're not religious, like like I am like a very you know, very atheistic Jew. Like I feel like you and I have things that some basis for our relationship here that we don't even need to have to establish. But I was fascinating when I heard that because I don't know, I don't think I know a single Jew
from the South. I think that's you. Maybe the first Jew from the South that I'm I'm getting to know, which seems weird, but I don't know, it does, doesn't it? In classic Jewish fashion? My uncle is the guy who ran the Kansas City JCC when it got shut up. Oh wow, during the Obama administration. That's crazy. So like classics, small world? Yeah, whose especially you know in that sort of zone of what feels to be claimed, Yeah by a different religion. How long have you been acting? When
did you start? You were young, fresh out the womb. I decided that I wanted to be Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz and decided that everyone in my family was just in this with me. They were just so long for the ride. They were just along for the ride. And you couldn't call me anything but Dorothy. Really. Yeah, how young were you? I was too? Oh wow, I was too. And that lasted for like a year and a half or something ridiculous like that. I truly I saw the Wizard of Oz, I decided I was Dorothy,
and everybody else had to deal with that. I mean, I completely understand that I have a daughter named Zelda. I love that name. Thank you. She's been obsessed with Annie since I mean my wife and I showed it to her when she was two probably or three or something, and just basically he's been obsessed with it. And now as like a theater kid is like, yeah, does all these musicals and is into things that I never thought I would I would learn about, Like are you familiar
with the franchise the Zombies, Franchi? I am now official, I have nieces and nephews. I love it so like, not only do I know all the songs from Annie and like the Matilda musical and oh my god, I love the Matilda musical. Oh my god, so it's so good, so insane and uh and just all this like like Wicked and whatever. But then also now because they basically was like, oh yeah, kids love musicals, so we should just make those zombies incredible. I've learned so much about
the zombie universe thanks to her. But there's something some people, I am the parent of one, something just clicks in a way that is like overwhelming. Did you feel that way, like like obviously when you were a little kid, it's like hard to gauge, but like you kept doing it right, Yeah, my parents figured that in the long run, just starting to put me in acting classes and camps might be cheaper than therapy. It wasn't, because I still needed therapy. I was gonna say, I don't know if that's those
are no equivalent. It didn't work. They just spent more money, and now I'm trying to make money off of it, right, Okay, Well, and you've done it. You're making money off you're in. Yeah, you're in a ton of stuff. But maybe there was never a question. But was there a moment for you where you're like, Okay, I can make this like a life. Well I'd I'd done you know, camps and stuff and absolutely loved it. But I was a jock and I
thought I was going to be doing softball. And then there was this sort of casting call thing, an ad for It was like, here, come for a free audition for Adrian Armante and Phil Lewis from Disney Channel to teach you if you have any interest in learning how to be like them, and my brain, not knowing that auditions are always supposed to be free, went oh, free, let's do that. Like what a deal, right? What a steel?
I got me? I'm sold? And so we went and I'm like, there's no cost to the us, and they were like, well, if if we like you and your audition, then you got to pay us to train you. I'm like, oh, that makes more sense. But at that point we just we did our little auditions and Phil Lewis pulled my parents to the side and said, don't let this kid skip school, but also don't let this kid stop doing this. And that was sort of the first time that for any of us we were like, we're are you for real?
No shit? Okay? Yeah, And even then I was still kind of not taking it completely seriously, even during this training process, until Giovanni Samuel's of Disney Channel of Fame. We were goofing off in her class and she kind of snapped us to reality and read us the Riot Act. It was like, people are paying money for you to do this, and you have a chance to make a return on that as long as you don't keep dicking around. Right.
I heard it, I listened, and she kind of brought me back to brought me to reality, a reality I had never sort of considered. And then from there it was sort of that moment of like, I mean, still a maybe, but worth the trying sort of thing. Yeah, Like I mean, listen, I know there are a lot of people who do lots of fearless things, but I am like kind of in awe of the capability of someone with your talent to be able to inhabit a role, even if it's very serious, or if it can be
very kind of fun and silly or whatever. Just like that ability too. I feel like I'm I don't think I'm a very self conscious person exactly, but I feel like there's a certain level of I don't know, my brain would prevent me from letting go completely. And I think,
I don't know what is that. Is there a moment where you are able to just inhabit this other space where you're not thinking about who you are and what people are thinking and how that could be perceived, and you're just in that thing or is it like, how do you get there? I think I spent my whole life sort of trying to figure out how to respond to every situation the way that other people did. Yeah, sort of you know, neurodivergent masking thing or a divergent seeing, copying, adapting,
and imitating. And I think that I just seemed to have figured out a way to use it for good because I'm always slightly aware of how I'm coming across, because when I was a kid, I couldn't always come across. I couldn't always express what I was feeling and trying to express unless I took somebody else's words or facial expressions to convey it, and then people would understand it better. Oh, that's really interesting, And so I think that I found the magic of infusing what I was feeling with what
other people could comprehend could read. Right. Well, that's so interesting. You have ADHD, Is that correct? Yeah? I also have that. So I'm always a big fan. And you said you're a divergent, but it's anything else fall for you into that bucket. Well, see, here's the thing. Apparently my parents recently told me that back in the day, back when I was getting diagnosed with everything I was getting diagnosed with when I was a kid assigned female at birth
didn't get diagnosed autism spectrum quite as much. And purportedly my mother was told when giving me the diagnosis, you have to choose between autism spectrum or ADHD. Your child falls squarely into both categories. Oh, it cannot be both, that's crazy. This comes with this set of challenges. This diagnosis come extra challenges, right you Wow, choose one and we didn't know anything at the time. I was like, yeah, seven, there's something like this. This is way before everything. So
here I am on the other side. My mom is doing more and more work in autism spectrum spaces and realizing, oh my goodness, becks where do you lie? Where exactly on the spectrum do you lie? And I'm like, I I don't know. I've spent so long learning how to do what I do and how I present to the world. Now I don't know if anyone could diagnose me. Is anything other than a chaos Gramlin is fine in time? A chaos Gramlin. I don't know if that's an actual diagnosis,
is it not? In the DSM five, I'm waiting for the six. Am I hearing a lot about the chaos Grablin diagnosis out there or any treatments for it, but it sounds fun. No treatments terminal? Well, I know of both chaos and gramlins. Is like, that's a recipe for a good time, or at least a mixture of good times and bad times, but probably not a lot in between definitely an eclectic time. It's so interesting to hear about,
like how much that diagnosis matters. Now. When I was a kid and I got diagnosed, they put me on a ton of drugs, and I was immediately like fight, we're talking about zombies. But I was like, oh zombie. Like I was like a oh yeah. Like I suddenly became so good at like being in school, you know, but like my personality was like zeroed out. I never got there. No, you were never good in school. No.
I was on so many different drug cocktails. We finally we finally found one that worked for me for a long time, but I had I was on so many of the little drug cocktails, but they all made me so emotionally unstable, yeah, that it wasn't worth me getting my homework done on time, right, So we had to find different ones. No, eventually we stopped. I mean eventually we stopped because it was like so extreme and later in life, I was like, oh, like this is speed,
Like okay, this is what being on speed is. Like I understand now that's actually yeah, a lot of fun. I mean the generation before me, they self medicated with cocaine to get their homework done. In college. Yeah. Right, So it's interesting that the diagnosis, like what you're saying about your parents had to make this choice or you had to kind of you know, be one or the other, but not both because like probably at that point you
were seven or something. That was back when they were still using the out of date term of Asperger's, which was coined by like a Nazi, So like it was back in the day when we're still learning about autism spectrum disorder, we're still making strides. This was way before that, right, No, it's like just the fact that a doctor would have been like, well, choose one. It's like, you know, roll the dice. It could be a little of this, a little of that, but you got to pick a side.
I mean, it's interesting to see how much I diagnosis can just blow up your whole existence, like getting the wrong the wrong medication, the wrong therapy, the wrong truth. And for many I definitely do have ADHD, and I feel like that doesn't preclude me from having autism spectrum.
And a lot of responses now is like, well, you interact so well, you make eye contact, and I'm like, those are not the only really, yeah, this is not the only thing I mean, it's funny because like it is a spectrum, like it is like not one or the other, right name, Yeah, it's right there, it's right there. Okay, so you're a kid, you have ADHD, you are on the spectrum most likely. Okay, you're gay, right, but I know when did you come out like definitely confused and
queer and like I was just a gender nonconforming kid. Yeah, I didn't understand why I had to wear a different bathing suit than all the boys on the street that I grew up with. Well, it doesn't make a lot of fucking sense. Actually, if you'd ask any kid our
daughter at that point, our bodies still looked the same. Yeah. Yeah, it's from that point up, like it's a little insane actually, Like especially like I've experienced this because I'm a dude, right, so I went through life just being a dude and not thinking too much about it. Having a daughter and going like oh yeah, well of course, she's like, how come I can't just why do the girls get these weird suits and boys are just wearing shorts or whatever.
Adults are the ones going like there's a difference, but to them it doesn't fucking matter, And they would never even think of it, you know, yeah, exactly. So okay, so you're a kid, you're feeling use the word confused, right, Yeah, I was just my reality was confusion for a lot of things and a lot of reasons. I was confused by what was happening inside my brain was happening outside my body. I was also gluten free, not until I
turned ten, and it was heavily affecting my neurology. My entire body, like my eyesight started tripling for the worse within like a month when I was in when I was nine. Oh wow, my body was I would break things. I would break my wrists just falling off a bed or at the back of a couch. I broke my foot walking and we couldn't figure out what was wrong with my body. And also medicine wasn't really was only
doing half the trick. My brain was still like everything felt foggy, everything felt awful, and I always felt angry and confused. Yeah, and it wasn't until a couple of months off gluten that I started to clear up. It had that big of an impact. Oh big time. Yeah, so you're you must have a pretty severe I mean, it must be pretty severe your reaction to it, Like I got gluten the other day and I've just been fatigued and cranky and my body's cramping. It's just not fun. Jesus,
it sucked. That's crazy. That's crazy. So so okay, So a ten you get diagnosed with that, At what point do you actually say, all right, you know what, instead of being confused or instead of kind of like pushing against this or trying to work with like what other people are telling you, what point are you like, Okay, here's what I need to do? Like, was there a moment for you? I feel like there's a moment for everybody.
I mean, at least I remember a moment for myself where I was like, okay, I have autonomy to sort of like say what I want. Do you remember a moment like that for you? I remember several times trying and for various reasons being shot down. Really and so it wasn't until I was in my twenties. Oh wow, really? Yeah? You say shot down? How like shot down like by adults and stuff like shot down by friends, by adults
with the best intentions. I didn't really have, you know, friends outside of family, friends and family until I was in junior high, and that was also when I started sort of vocalizing that I felt queer. Yeah, and very well meaning people in my life, including lesbian guidance counselor, told me not to risk my first friend group. Huh
by coming out seem like a good guidance. Yeah. That generation all they knew was pain, right, that generation of queer, that generation of gay, all they knew was pain and heartbreak and rejection. So I understand why her life experience made her say that. Yeah, and it still fucked me up. Yeah. No, I mean you're like, hey, I feel like I need to be this person, especially having a queer adult telling you your queerness is going to make people reject you. Right, Yeah,
that's um. I get what you're saying about like sort of best intentions or the where they were coming from, but the effect is still the same. Yeah they still Yeah, that's that's heavy. I mean that's really heavy. Like I look at social media and I look at the TikTok, which is like excus so young, and it's like, I want to believe that things are really different now, you
know that, Like that advice wouldn't be given. I mean, obviously not every place is like this, right, not every I mean for the South is probably a good example of places where you're not gonna get Maybe you're gonna get great advice if you're queer and you wanted to like figure out what you do right, like how you kind of become who you need to be. And there was also that of like the awareness that I lived in the South, regardless of how accepting my immediate circle was,
I had a unique awareness. Then then I was in danger. Yeah, Like I traveled outside of the perimeter for softball games, and there was one softball game where one girl got suspended from the game for threatening to hit me in the head with a bat. I was the catcher. Yikes, made a joke swinging at my head, and the umpire immediately called time. Was like, this is you can't do that. God.
And I'll never know if it was because I was gay or like collockably queer looking, or if it's because I was like identifiably Jewish, or she just had a problem, like a competitive problem, right, or if I was like a specific target. I'll never know, and I don't really want to It could have been all of those things.
You can't rule out that it was a combination, but I can't I can't separate the fact that that that same game started with them praying for God to grant them the ability to accept defeat and not get angry if they don't win. And I got uncomfortable at that immediately. I'm like, if if, if you have to ask a higher power to keep you from beating up someone else, you're not a good person. Yeah, that's crazy. No, that's
so interesting. I mean to think about, like, God, I hope I can handle being defeated at a sporting event or whatever. God, I hope you let me handle losing at a sporting event. Yea, not even God, I hope I can handle it. God, I hope you allow me to handle it like full on hands off of their
own responsibility. No, this is it's so funny because we were talking about like the Jewish sort of and I'm not comparing religions, but there is like that feeling of when I was raised that like it was all on me, Like it always felt like it was on me to deal with my shit, and that there was not no one was going to help. And if I asked anybody, like I'm like, well, well, God intervene people are like, now,
God doesn't do that. That's not our thing. We have this whole holiday where it's like you weigh your sins and your mistakes and your successes for the year. Yeah, it's you weigh that and you rectify it, not God. Yeah, it's like kind of crazy to think about wild to think about somebody putting any of that responsibility on somebody else.
But maybe that's maybe that's why it's so easy to be cruel, right, Like if it's someone else is judging, or there's some responsibility that you can pass off to somebody else, then like being shitty to other people becomes like, you know, it's easy to be callous because you are kind of like, well, you know, it's not in my hands. There's something so comforting about blanket forgiveness, right, No, I mean the idea that you can be like I'm terrible,
but God forgives, Like you know what, I'm saved. God is like, well, I I murdered a few people, but I did repent, So see, I killed someone, but this dude died several centuries ago, so I'm chill with it. Yeah, Like honestly, I get it. Like here, say it out loud, I'm kind of like, oh, yeah, that's a good deal, Like let me be a part of a thing really really fucked up. But I am going to talk to God about this, and I'm gonna get straight with my Lord,
and it's gonna be all good. Okay. So look, so actually this brings me to something I want to talk about, which is, like, you know, we are living in some dark fucking times, right, Like yeah, especially if you're queer,
especially if you're a neuro DII virgin. An entire political party here it seems geared towards truly like violent policy, right, And I would imagine like you feel that probably more acutely than I do, because again, like I walk out the door and I'm just like a white dude strolling down the street, but admittedly visibly Jewish. So you know, it's on a full break for me. But you know, like se off the hook, where do you find joy? Where do you find some sanity away from all that?
Like it just seems like a dark time. I'm curious. It's a very dark time, and it's a very important question. Like I have my Sunday kickball in the park with just a whole bunch of queer people having fun. That helps a lot. I am creating things with queer people whom I love and respect, and that brings joy there. I'm doing a Bengo for Alzheimer's tonight at Hamburger Mary's,
and I'm scared. Yeah, I'm scared that some lunatic could be deciding tonight's the night to shoot up right the place with all the all the people who are full of love and light. And it's scary, and I'm doing it anyway because it feels important, because it feels like something worth putting my safety at risk. Or you mentioned kickball, and you talked about softball before sports obviously, but games in general. You mentioned a bunch of times here, like
are you a gamer? Video games? Tabletop role playing games? Oh? Yeah, you're into role playing games very much, yes, tabletop tabletop? Oh okay, what is your game? What are your games? You know, I'm one of those. I'm a basic bitch.
I'm super into Dungeons and Dragons right now. I know, we've got like Pathfinder and Quest and there's this really cool kickstarter I was part of for this game called Hidden Niles, and like all these different platforms and everything, but I I do find myself going back to five, especially because I think it's a Volka's it's this new addendum for five that's got witches and a mandrake race that's sort of like an n and it matches perfectly into this Fairytown campaign I've been doing with some of
my favorite people. So I'm like, I've sucked back in. I love this. I actually I especially love it because I just bought the starter set for me and my daughter and we have these these friends who lived down the street when I was a kid. I haven't played in a long time, but when I was a kid, back in the old days when everything was in black and white, I played a D and D, which there used to be two. I mean, I don't know if you know this, but there used to be two versions,
and I like, oh wow. I talked about this down people are like, oh yeah, they did away with that. But there was D and D, which was like, okay, that's for like lightweights. And then there was a D and D Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, which apparently they now took all of the advanced Dungeons and Dragons, and that's like what became like the regular Dungeons and Dragons at
least that's my understanding. Yeah, but I bought the starter kid for me and Zelda and our friend Frank and his son Alistair, and I was like, we got to play, and I'm so excited to get started. I wish why didn't I talk about D and D earlier, because like, it's so it's so interesting to like here, okay, bring bade no, no, for sure, I mean actually yeah, I mean that would be great because I need it, like once I re learn how to play, like, I feel like it's such a great escape. And so that's what's
so interesting. Like you were talking about these kind of like joyful things that you're doing, and I love that you went to games as a place because I think, you know, because look, sports, at their very core, it's a game, right, and then when they're they're their best,
it's like you're playing literally. I know, it's like, Okay, it's for money or it's to win or whatever, but the people who do it best are doing it because they love to do it, and it is like you're you are playing a game, and that's like I think that's such an interesting place to go because actually, during the pandemic and a lot of times when I'm reading the news and I get completely depressed and feel like hopeless. My retreat is into game universe is usually video games.
One of my things has been if I can find a world that's worse than the one that we're in right now, that's always like like the last of us. I'm like, okay, this is uh. I respect that I have a friend who's very much the same. We had a we had a campaign that we were doing during the pandemic, and it was very much the same for all of our players. They were looking for a world that was worse than the one we were currently living in,
and I was just in the opposite boat. I needed something better, right, something that is uplifted, not like yeah, listen, I could talk about gaming forever. Yeah. It's the opposite of like the social media thing, right, Like social media is like you're getting like in most cases or reading the news, it's like you're getting full reality. And gaming is like in terms of game, tabletop or collaborative story,
like you're going away from reality into something else. I mean, he is acting like that for you, Like you build a character in D and D. Are you building a character like that? When you're when you're in something, when
you're when you're taking on a roll. Yeah. And the best part of both D and D and acting is that it's just reacting truthfully to imaginary circumstance, right, And in D and D more so than anything, it's it's imaginary circumstance, but it's it's really good practice and reminder for acting that it's just that, right, it's just how is this character that I've built and that I understand, how is this character reacting to this wacky situation that
we find ourselves in? Right? What is your character like in DND Not to go back to it, but I'm curious, can you tell me a little bit about it? So the character I am most obsessed with right now is um.
There's actually a race for him now that exists. In the newest addendum, we sort of just built our own version of an end from Lord of the Rings, but with extra lore, where it's like in our universe, trees from ages fifteen to two hundred go on what we call a walk about where they figure out where they want to put down their roots, and then after they turn two hundred, they start their grove, and then they have their roots for the rest of reality? Is this
your lore? This is our Yeah, we made this lure up. Yeah. Wow, that's actually okay, you're going that deep. Oh yeah, we're going super deep with it. We're building a whole world here. And so Volka's addendum has a race called Mandrake. So we're just combining our created race and all our lore from that into the Mandrake. Wow, and using those stats and things. It's really a tree. The tree is a tree named alder. Wow. I mean that's kind of beautiful.
I mean it's kind of amazing. Are you playing with other actors? Are you playing? Tell me about like, who's in the party, this particular party. Let's see. I think all of us are some sort of creative except for one of us is like a researcher at a media company. We're all in various states of the industry. I mean, we all live here, so we're all in various right, we're parts of the industry, but we do have to
be part of the entertainment industry. Yeah, but we get together to not be part of the entertainment industry for a night and to just kind of goof around in fairytown. Right, God,
that sounds amazing. I'm sorry, Like I'm so jealous right now just thinking about having a regular any kind of regular game going like that, because I mean, actually when I when I'm playing video games, I'm doing is very solitary, Like most of the time, I'm not a big like I'm not a Fortnite person, Like, do you play games like that? I play like Hades. Assassin's Creed is so good. Hades is like the first roguelike that I actually stick with and return to really so good. Yeah, I mean,
I'm not gonna lie. I was full on playing Hades before I got on this. You were like, can we push thirty minutes? And I was like, perfect, I got there. I get crushed at Haities. I'm like, I mean, I don't know where I am. I definitely have played it multiple times, and I get to a point where I'm like, I can't keep going. It's just like I'm getting first Escape from the Realm was it Escape Attempt twenty nine? Oh my god. I was like, I think I might
have found a game that I'm good at. I have played hundreds of games and like over and over again, just brutally just kind of torturing myself in a way and yet I'm not a person who's ever historically gotten good at video games, Like I don't consider myself a good video gamer. Like I don't like I have friends who are like I'm I can like, you know, kill shot you from wherever. I'm like, okay, cool, Like getting good at a game has never been appealing to me. Good, Yeah,
thank you. So I think of a healthy relationship, say, yeah, I don't know. Maybe, and this is just like maybe a philosophical thing about like being killed and then getting better from it. Maybe there is a life lesson here. Yeah, I guess it's kind of you know, what doesn't kill you make you stronger? Though in these games you definitely get killed pretty does kill you makes you stronger? Yeah?
Something like that? Is there for you? A role that is a fantasy, either one that exists out there that you want to play, that you'd love to play, or is there something that you'd like to create. I'm just curious, like because you seem so creative, Like I feel like this conversation, the whole time we've been talking, I feel like there's so many moments of you. There's like a spark of like originality where you're just like like in on things. I'm like, oh wow, okay, I didn't I
would never have thought of that or whatever. So is there a role for you, like you really want to play it because it exists out there, or one that you would like to create for yourself. I know it's been done a million times, but I want to do Peter Pan. But you know where the twist is. Peter Pan is the angel of death for children who are gone before their time. Oh my god, oh my god. First off, first off, hold on number one. You know, would you be Peter? Are you playing Peter? Okay? Absolutely?
Okay for starters. For starters, I think super good casting in my opinion. And this is like I'm not look, I'm not a film producer or anything, but or TV producer, but totally sick cast anybody pay. But also I know Peter Pan well because Zelda did a musical version of Peter Pan. I'm very intimately familiar with the story now
I've seen multiple version of it. She actually obsessively watches like other people doing Peter Pan productions on YouTube, Like that idea is both so disturbing but also so great. And I don't know that that I don't know that that's a thing. I don't know if that's a thing or not, but it definitely like because Peter Pan's whole deal is like pretty fucking weird. Like there's a lot of like unusual stuff happening with Peter Pan. That doesn't
you're not totally like okay, this is normal. It's highly suspicious. So where does Tinkerbell fit into this? Like is Tinkerbell like the the cleaner or like, I mean, why why is Peter Pan killing the children? Do we know Peter Pan's not killing the children? Peter Pan's harvesting the children. Oh, harvesting. I hate to say harvesting, but yeah, Pan is is you know, like the angel of Death taking the children
who die before their time. Oh I see, I could be something as dark as like the Darling's killing their children or something as simple as like a ghast like killing the children. But like the kids want to go home and the twist is that they cannot. So Neverland is actually like uh wimbo or right right, right, wow, dude, I think you need to make this. I don't know, I don't know how, but I will. I just gotta wait till it's public domain. So when is that? How
long is that. I don't know. It's so expensive, is it not? Is it not public domain? I think it is. It's got to be. Winnie the Pooh just hit public domain. Wiz there, it has to be some There's so many derivative works that are made from Peter Pan, Like there are hook once Disney gets their hooks and no pen intended once Disney gets their hooks and things. It's true. Oh, they are making a new Peter Pan thing, aren't they. There's any one coming out? Okay, wow, weird interesting time
stamping this episode so they can't steal it from us? Yeah, here is this is actually like you can. This is like trademark this, this is now out there in public. You've put Disney call me you put a one in the same. I think that's a amazing idea. But also the idea of just doing it dark like that, just doing it more like goth I think is really really good.
All Right, we have to wrap up. Unfortunately, God, this has been such an interesting conversation and we went to so many places I did not expect to go, which I really like. Oh one more just because we're ending on Peter Pan. Yeah, I'm gonna just throw it out there a really great drag name for someone who has
bladder issues is Peter Pants. It took me a second, like I was like, I don't get it, and then like in the middle of going I don't get it, I was like, oh my god, that's fucking I mean, listen, I think you've got something. Hey, maybe listen, have you considered maybe that's the character. It's not Peter Pan's death. You might be able to skirt the whole copyright issue or whatever by being like, no, you don't understand. This is not Peter Pan. This is Peter Pan. Peter Pants.
That's a whole different it's a whole different thing. You have to come up with some fun names for Wendy and the rest of the kids. That was thank you for that. I needed that. No, that's Peter Pants. It's very good. Okay, I think that's fantastic. Well, listen, you gotta come back. We gotta let me. I'm gonna get back into role to role playing. Then you gotta come back, and we gotta get into like we have like a
whole RPG episode we should play. We should do an episode where we just get a party together and play so much fun. I would love that. Oh my gosh, yeah, you got me fired up. Now I'm so fired up to go and actually start playing again. I gotta get out to convinced because she you know, at the moment it's kind of hard to pull her away from like musical theater and go. No, let's imagine a world of fantasy. We could do a musical theater fantasy. Oh no, that's
that's the dream, isn't it? For her? That was really fun. Well, she could play a bard easily. Her character could have to sing everything. One of my favorite Bard spells is vicious mockery. Will you just make an insult that hurts so much it actually does physical damage? Oh my god. And like a Bard's magic can be done through spells, through music, through like poetry, through the ukulele, through singing,
so she could absolutely sing all her spells. You have just given me a great convincing argument to actually get the set out, because I do think she would love it. But that's such a good way to get into it because I could be gosh, you could play Oops All Bards where it's just like a girl band, a girl all Bards, Oops All Bards be very dramatic, very dramatic, campaign, very dramatic party right there. Wow, I love this this show. I've got so many good ideas now, this is amazing.
It's one of the blessings and the curses of ADHD. Truly, I feel like I'm always having great ideas, but my execution levels are like lacking. Yeah, very lacking. Yep. Bet this has been so good and interesting, and I gotta say this last part here where just guided into fucking game conversation and crazy ideas, has been you know, I see it on the cake and I really appreciate you doing it, so thank you, my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast. Well there
you have it. So obviously we have to follow up with a full RPG, either episode or frankly into full campaign, which will either be recorded or not. But I'm excited. This has gotten me very excited about getting back into role playing. I can finally develop a character for myself that is everything that I hoped I would be as a as an adult and ended up not being. So that's really excited. I get to to feel what it's like to be happy, and I'm looking forward to that
and fulfilled. Anyhow, that is our show for this week. We'll be back next week with more what future, and as always, I wish you and your family the very best.