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Watching that first half, I wished I was dead. We so, yeah, I was happy for COVID to take me at that point. But yeah, it wasn't a great game. Yeah, yeah, I wish I was dead.
That's it, Steve, there almost wasn't a West Tigers podcast. Like, if you ask me, after fifty five minutes of that game, I'm like, I don't know if we're going to be able to do a podcast. I was sort of over the whole the whole situation.
Well, Jil, it's going to be a pretty ad limb podcast. Because I couldn't watch the game back today. There's just no way I went through the I went through the play by play stats that you get online, and that was the most I could do in preparation for tonight.
And Nick's here and in good health by the look of it, but has been torturing himself reading the socials, watching back highlight clips, watching the game again. What you are, massachist, I'd just like.
To soak myself and you know ingest everything that is West Tigers. Look, you boys know, I was out last night, so I watched most of the first half and missed a lot of the second half. So I watched the full replay today just to try and prep as I
do as a professional for this podcast. But as you've boys sort of alluded to the first you know, sixty odd minutes were pretty ordinary, weren't they, Like I was, I'm glad I knew the result before I watched the replay today, because you know, it was looking like it was going to get really ugly at one point midway through that second half last night. So yeah, I'm glad we came back. We did show a lot of spirit to come back into that game, but for the majority it was it was horrible.
I've got three or four one words. We'll go to you guys in a moment for your one word contribution, but from the West Tigers podcast forum, Tiger Tragic's word is frustration, especially over the ref and the bunker. We'll talk about that shortly. Teddy S's word was reffed out, and because I always have a few one words, Teddy s says they're also going to throw in body language and saying that the body language shows that maybe some of our players have had enough. Cambra Tiger's word is
dead wood. We still have a lot to shed now if we shed, if we fire up the shred or anymore Cambra Tiger and without adding some people in Gary and Steve are going to get a run soon. Nat Mak seventy eight's word is momentum. We finally had it, but run out of time. Walgot Tiger's word is frustrated. There's a team in there, if Benji can just unlock it. Peter Ay's word, this is out of left field. Actually
I'm going to leave. I'll leave Peter A's to last, and then we'll go from there because that will open a little conversation. I think Yarnie's word is backwards. We're going backwards and Benji needs to go. Mac Tiger kicking. We need a fifth tackle option and also referees was a word for Mac Tiger. I presume in negative sense Mike's words wooden spoon. Eddie's word was along those lines. What did eddies wood was wood the spoon race, spoon race,
race to the bottom. Snake's word is dumb. There's just not enough smarts in our team. Tiger town sfs's word is cooked. Our season is cooked and dirty Red's discipline that's what cost us tonight, Peter A. Gary said Brad Arthur. Now that is out of left field. What do we think about, you know, a big shake up in the coaching ranks.
I do think questions are going to start being asked around Andy Marshall's performance. I really think that if there isn't significant signs of improvement soon, that noise around his coaching is going to get fairly loud. So I think the next this second half of the season that we're just about coming into, is going to be really crucial on whether he has a career as a coach or not. So he's got some work to put in over the next months.
Steve, It's an interesting one, isn't it, Because we don't know exactly where Benji is in his progress as a coach. We knew last year that he was green. We don't know if he's going to take three years, two years,
five years, eight years. Like It's just hard to sort of tell how coached we are because I'd suggest the Cowboys look like they had a game plan, they were on the advantage line, they quick play the balls, they looked like they were ready to sort of take it to us, and we don't seem to have that variation. So I don't know, do we It's going to be so long as we keep losing games, that'll continue to be something that people raise the coaching issue.
J I think we mentioned this last part or a couple of ponds ago, and I made the point I said that Benji Marshall has proven himself through his playing career that he's a champion. He's got a champion a champion's mindset and mentality, and from what I've seen the beginning of the year, the beginning of this season, he seems to be bringing that mindset to his coaching. He's definitely toughened up. I think with his coaching he gives
that persona anyway. But I also made the point that I said, I think he's going to make it, and let's hope it's sooner rather than later, which is what you're saying, Joel. We don't know how long it's going to take. He's not the finished product, you know, And I don't know how long we've got before we have to start thinking about that, because it's just been so long.
It's just been so long since we've tasted any success, and maybe we just can't wait for another three years for Benji to mature into the coach that he will become. And I don't like saying that because I have a lot of respect and time for Benji, as I think most of us doing in some respect, at least.
Steve. I don't think it's a sooner or later thing. Though. If he doesn't start to get results soon and the pressure builds and it gets to the point where he's no longer West Tiger's coach in the next twelve months or so, then that's his coaching career in my opinion. If he doesn't make good of this shot, then I
don't think he gets another opportunity. So while I do think there is a good coach there because he's come in in the manner that he's come in with not a lot of experience, with not a lot of a history in coaching. I think if this doesn't work, he ends up back in the media. I don't see him going to another club and serving an apprenticeship for the next five years as an assistant coach somewhere looking for that next chance to come up. We're in a position
now that's make or break for Benji. Marshall and I spoke last week. I said that the players need to stand up boring that. They say all the right things, they talk about being behind Benji one hundred percent, but they need to show that on the field and if they want him as a coach moving forward, they've got a couple of months to really turn this around and stand up for him out on the field. There's been enough talk about how they support him as a coach,
how they think he's a great coach. They need to show it on the field and our senior leaders need to show that on the field very very soon, otherwise there's going to be massive questions asked about Benji as a West Tigers coach. And as I said, I don't think he gets another shot after this The.
Trouble is how much can you squeeze out of the lemon? How much ability is really there? I mean, how playing to potential. There's a lot of guys in that team still that are probably playing just about that potential.
I think. I think the last couple of weeks he's been let down by some of the senior guys. Those two sin innings yesterday. Yeah, Like, my one word for this week was ill disciplined because we won. Outside of playing with twelve men, we won that game twenty eight to six. It's the twenty minutes where we had twelve men on the field that really hurt us. I know, we'll pour in that first half, but the Cowboys weren't
anything flash Eiver. We lost that game in that twenty minutes that we had those players off the field.
Well, it wasn't It wasn't just that that twenty minutes here, that's that's where they scored their points.
You can't you can't argue that.
But I've got a few stats here because my word was discipline as well. That was my one word for tonight. And he's the first twenty minutes for you. In the first twenty minutes, we made four errors we had three rock infringements, two penalties against US, one player put on report, and one player put in the SimBin. And the score after the first twenty minutes was fourteen nil. As Gary said, those fourteen points were scored with that one player in
the symbim. That was our first twenty minutes. You cannot come back from that start at an R level. You're giving a team an absolute leg up. Any advantage that we may have had by coming off the by and being freshened up and two weeks to prepare and all that sort of talk, all that's gone when you're put in our first twenty minutes like that, with that ill disciplined performance. And this is what concerns me most about.
If we want to talk, Benji, if you want, we may be going too far into a job because we're just talking one words at the moment. But this is what concerns me most is that we started the season we had we had half a dozen games where we
looked like we were turning a corner. But now the last three games that we've played, we've just seen an absolute repetition of the type of football we've played last year, the year before, the year before, that and that is just this ill disciplined brand of football where we just shoot ourselves in the foot and yeah, we might do some good things and we all walk away. As I've read online at Norse in the last twenty four hours, Oh we were so close, great comeback. Oh we almost
got there. The ref ruined it. No, none of that, None of that. It was our lack of discipline on the football field that didn't give us a chance to contest in that game when it mattered. We only contested in that game at the back end of the game, when when the Cowboys took their foot off the pedal. And that's a real worry, real worry all around.
Our first twenty minutes was poor. Yesterday, the first half was poor all round. The thing is, even while being poor, we're competing with the Cowboys up until that first inbining, up until that first inventing. We'll ride in that game, and it had our chances Tower almost went through not long before that first inviny, So we were really competing in that game despite those errors. For me and those errors, we've been a slow starting side all season. The whole season.
That first twenty minutes we've been incredibly poor. We struggled to get up the field, and we struggled to create chances in that first twenty minutes, and that was again quite evident yesterday. But our senior players let us down yesterday. It wasn't the young players. It was the senior players who let us down through poor disionline, through poor errors. And from I know, Benji Marshall and a lot of people come out and said the sin binnings were harsh,
and they were hard. They were hard sin bins. But there's no doubt that Jerome lou I held down two tackles in a row. I don't think that can can even be questioned. He held on for too long. And while I thought the sin binning was harsh, him holding down put him in that position to be bin Adam Dewey, who I thought was trying to turn around and put himself in a bad position, but he put himself in a bad position to be sindied. They're the two crucial
errors that cost us yesterday. But I do agree with Steve the discipline was pour across across the game right up and probably including that last twenty minutes where we did fight back.
I'm going to channel my inner Garry here and say not just two things can be right at the same time, but three things can be right at the same time. So I am one hundred percent on board with the West Tigers being an organization that's never really had discipline, Like discipline is not our well, it's not our master. We can't do it at any levels. On discipline on any level over more than two decades. I think talking about the first twenty minutes, I don't think that it's
necessarily discipline. I thought we were just hanging in there. I thought the Cowboys were smashing us. And we'll get around to my one words in a moment, and one of those one words relate to that, and I think we were just hanging in and hanging in and trying to slow their play the ball. So not discounting their discipline is poor.
But I think that the way which has been going has been the trade all season. That's what I meant in that opening twenty minutes exactly.
And I think the refereeing also, you know, it felt to me like there was more onus, on us getting off the tackle player than the Cowboys. They were able to slow us down, but they're play the ball the way They're able to get to their feet very similar to some of the other really good teams we are. We are, you know, like slugs getting to our feet, and the way that they wrestle, the way that the way they get to their feet, the way that they keep moving even when they're tackled is very impressive.
Steve.
And then Nick, I've got a question for.
You like that.
You're talking about the refereeing, and I think that comes back to what we talked about earlier about Benji and the game plan and the cheap sheet and the preparation sheet that they go through before a game in the week. In the prep in the week leading up to the game, we knew we had Klimb in the bunker, and we knew we had Sutton on the field. That's true, two of the most pedantic referees, very good at their craft. They officiate the rules exceptionally well. I think they referee
a football game terribly. That's just my personal opinion, but they officiate the rules exceptionally well, especially Sutton. He can blow the pee out of a whistle now. But the point is we knew he was the referee, so therefore, in preparation, surely over and over and over again. It had to be drummed into the team. And back to Gary's point earlier about our senior players led by our senior players, that we need to be absolutely on our
game because we will get penalized at the slightest thing. Right, And despite the fact that everyone wanted to get up Bateman and show him how tough we were, the ill discipline that that created, the brawn over brain that that created, meant that we've had up with two blokes spent ten minutes in the sympneach. It was dumb, dumb, dumb football, and we did not think about who was refereeing and the way we had to play because.
Of that, Steve, you and I had a conversation one on one last week and we spoke about I said to you, now, you made a mistake there, Steve, because you were talking about our wonderful club that we all love. But you started the sentence with surely that's always a big mistake, because I would say something like, surely we could see Royce Hunt is not a starting prop and he's better off on the bench, and we should start see only Fainer instead, because our bench was, you know,
pretty ineffective and Rose Hunt was really ineffective. Anyway, Nick, two of my words are unorthodox and touch footing. This teams are often representations of the way that their coach has, their philosophy, their personality. I see a mirror of Benji marsh in a lot of our team on the field.
I was going to jump in and say that too, like Gary was talking about. You've all talked about how messy, especially the opening twenty minutes was, and it's not just the ill discipline efforts around holding players down too long, you know, but a lot of the force passes and I made a mention of that in our group chat last night, is you know, even on the second and
third tackle. I know the plan looked like to go wide early, but the silly tap on is like Samuel la Faye who tried to tap on and the second tackle and went behind Charlie Sains I think in over the sideline. But that's not warranted in the first twenty minutes. You need to you need to grind your way into the game, and you need to be neck and neck. And I know Gary made a point that we were running neck and neck until the first synby and then
we were or their Jole. As you said, the Cowboys were looking pretty sharp and we're probably all over the top of us. But you've got to earn your way into a match, and I don't think we're doing that. I think, like you just suggested, Joel or sort of spoke towards, we are sort of playing an expansive brand early, which is very attacking wise, and that is how Benji plays it. I wonder there's still a lot of talk
that you know in the training field. Benji jumps in and does a lot of the moves himself and runs a lot of the players. But I just wonder whether the players are watching that and trying to emulate him a bit too much. Well, maybe they need to know to roll a bit more.
I leave that such a being such an apprentice of Marshall and the way that he played like sometimes that eggs into his game, and I'm sure Pendrith fans would say that's probably one of his weaker points, is when he does play too unstructured. Gary had his hand.
On Yeah, that opening twenty minutes. I think I said after round one that that opening twenty minutes is going to be an issue for us all year, and I won't step away from that that opening twenty minutes, and every game is going to be a time in a
game where we have to hang on. And I think that a little bit more expands that we play with is kind of it's there to counter our inability to get down the field for our forwards in that opening twenty Even a guy like Terrelle May, who's having a wonderful season, he struggles in that opening twenty minutes against fresh forwards. He gets better the longer he's out on the field, and his other forwards tire because he's not that tall. He's a decent size, but he's not that tall.
I don't think he has the size and to still want a Joles with the physicality to really dent the line. So he gets better as a game, and you'll see if you watch him in the first twenty minutes of most games, he will often go the ball, go to the line and pass early in the game, pass to another forward, And all that to me is a strategy to overcome our lack of punch in that opening twenty minutes. Now, what I was hoping is that once we had Hunts starting,
that would get a little bit of that punch. But when you have his stats from last night of one run for seven meters, quite obvious that that we did not get that from him last night. So I do agree that I think we need to be starting with the only moving forward. But that's not going to fix that issue either. That twenty minutes is going to have to be a period of the game where we're hanging
on into the game. I don't see that changing, and that's why ill disciplined mistakes like after getting towards the end of that twenty minute, like part way through that twenty minutes and getting a guy simmed in, we can't afford because that's the toughest part of the game for us. I think you'll see us come back over the top of teams late in games like we did last night, but we've got to we've really got to be really disciplined in that first twenty minutes.
Low percentage play is trying to score on every play. Attention to detail, Steve, And also, like I'm going to say, I agree with you in terms of like not just discipline, in terms of playing to the rules and making sure that you're dotting guys and crossing t's and not giving away six agains and things like that. But discipline is something that we lack. Just it's not just this squad. It's something that we've traditionally or we've lacked quite often.
And that's the discipline of building a game, building a game, moving yourself around the field, playing where you want to play, your kicking game, you're setting things up. We just look like we consistently just have to do something every time we get the ball, and it's just not the way that you win games.
Yeah, we're definitely struggling at the moment, not having an established organizing seven. You know, no matter how you want to paint it, we are struggling with that. I mentioned in the group chat the South. I was watching the Penrith game today and I just watched Cleary bring that game home for Penrith, and like, I know, they haven't set the wad on fire this season, but he started off by doing what clearly does. He kicked a forty twenty to take all the press off and change the momentum.
But from that point on he just pretty much single handedly kept paramatter, you know, on their own twenty with deep kicking, pinpoint kicking into the corners and just didn't allow them out and didn't give them an opportunity to come back and win that game. And we haven't done that forever. I can't remember the last time that we were actually able to manage a game. I actually said that.
You know, we've had some good wins this year, but every time we win a football game, it always seems to be a frantic top win where we've scrambled really well, or we've come from behind, or we kick a field goal, or we do something exceptional. We never seem to just manage our way through a game where we come off the field and our heart rate is not at one hundred and eighty, you know what I mean, We actually have the game in control, we've managed it, we've bought
at home, and we think job well done. Right, let's pack up and come back next week and do the job again. We haven't done that forever. That's not Lawa's natural game. And I have never said that the bloke is not a good footballer. I think he's a fantastic footballer and a great asset, but it's not his go I don't know whether he can teach it to himself, whether he can learn it, whether he can become that player.
I'm starting to really doubt that he can. And I think, you know, we would be best served at this point in time in looking at a player like Adam Reynolds to be our seven. I don't think that's going to happen. But a player like that, let Luis push back out to six.
I don't know what that does to Feinhu.
That's another conversation I suppose, or Mason for that matter, But that's where we're at.
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So would you be looking at a guy like Toby Sexton who looks like he's on the outer at the Bulldogs? All right?
To be honest, Garrett, I'd have to. I'd have to have a closer look at him. Does he fit the skill set that we're looking for? I personally, you want utopia, don't you my personally, we need someone with more with more experience and a track record than what Toby Sexton brings. You know, the skill set is one. Having the skill set to manage the game is one. The experience that you've done it on the on the big stage is the other thing that I think we need as well.
But I don't know if that's a possibility or not.
There's three or four of those guys, really, Steve, that's probably the hard thing. Like you're you're looking at a at Adam Reynolds, You're looking at a Nathan Clear who's probably the best player in the game.
And well, the Roosters are getting one. They've managed to do it.
Yeah, that is That is a very good point, but it's really difficult because I don't know who we're going to go out and get. If we could go out and get Adam Reynolds to come across the one to two years, I would be all over that. But the difficult thing is I don't know that you can. Like I think if he leaves Brisbane we're in with a
really good chance of that. But it sounds like Brisbane have moved parts around, but there's still a lot of disharmoning at Brisbane if you have all good how they are playing, so I'm sure that there's a lot going on. They've got a lot of off contract players, so I don't think that Adam Reynolds one is dead in the water yet that there's not a lot out like you're looking at daily Cherry Evans who who is possibly still available.
I don't know what's going on there. It's a really tough one to kind of feel because if you're not getting one of those experienced guys who there's only a few of, you're probably looking at a young guy to come and try and try and fill that role. And then what is that, as you said, what does that say to la Tufeinu and Heath Mason. It's pretty much putting a line through them. You're making your mind up about them right now?
Or the the other question, sorry sorry Nick dominating that. But the other question then is because that is the reality, is, then are we going to persist with Leui? And if that is the case, because he's an exceptional footballer and he has switched on football and he just seems to be a smart bloke, so given the correct coaching, maybe he can transform into that player.
So then you go back to the question, do.
We have the right people in the right positions coaching the team that's going to allow that to happen.
For me, the really important thing is, and I said it on the pod last week, is Leui needs to start playing straighter. When he plays straight, I think he does a really good job in that half back role. I think he does well to create space for his players outside him and creates room for them to do well. And he did it a few times last night on the Buller Try. It was Louie that created that space for him. Now, you're not going to get the big all the credit for that because it's a simple play.
But the simple plays are what you want from that organizing half. You want them creating space so those players outside them are playing better. And he did that a couple of times last night. For me, the game he did that really well was the Dragons game. He needs to play director, He needs to play straighter. He needs to play deep into the line like he can and then he can play as a halfback. But at the moment he's going across field more than he's going direct,
and that's what he needs to sort out. If he can sort that out, I think he can make a fist of that half back role. But he has to sort that out. And I'm not sure whether whether he's getting the right advice or he can has the discipline to do that consistently. I think that's still to be seen.
Well, he needs more, he needs more momentum from his back rowers as well from and look look at the different does fifteen meter runs and they get that momentum and then you're already playing straight because the team's going straight, but he's getting the ball because we're going sideways because we keep getting smashed because of physicality. And I'll just have to keep saying it every week until something changes.
It's very hard to play straight when you're not playing against a retruding defense. Correct. It's incredibly hard. And we've spoken about that a number of times over the years and will eventually let Nick speak. I just know Nick spoke the other night on the MIDWEK pod and spoke for about thirty five minutes and kind of just did the whole game preview for us has been beautiful.
Nick the floor a sures just a couple of things on that whole last twenty five minute conversation, i'd have been out of.
I just add to that Gary that I think.
I actually think and I know we'll get to Heath Mason, but he I thought he complimented.
Jerome quite well.
He did straighten up the attack on several occasions and looked very dangerous doing that, and we did talk about it.
He had a great game last night, Nick.
Yeah, we did talk about that a couple of days ago on the pod, what potentially would look like with him.
Playing in the halves.
And he was very quick and he's very evasive on his feet, and we got to see that just on what you said, Steve about twenty eight minutes ago on Jerome whether he can retrain himself as a halfback. So Benji had to retrain himself as he got older, and in the last few years he became more of a game manager.
He took him a long time to do it though, Nick.
It did take him a long time. But Jerome's got a lot of time now, He's got a lot of time left. He's young enough.
We don't I don't think. I don't think Benji ever did that overly successfully. I really don't. I don't think he was ever I don't think you'd ever say he was an outstanding organizing half. He was always a run in six no matter what Numery had in his back.
I reckon.
I think he made a bit of a fist of it in the last probably two or three years. That year at CIT he had at South, I think he did a reasonable job of it.
I guess my point is, though, if we're going to have Jerome, if we're going to have Jerome locked in as a seven for long term, if he's going to be around the next four and a half years, and if we're going to have someone like Latu Fio next to him or Heath Mason, then I think Jerome has to play a little bit differently. He can't be hopping and skipping across the across the field because so it comes back, like I just said, with Heath Mason, it
did compliment well because he straightened it up. And actually one comment that Scott Drinkwater made after the game in his interview on the field was how dangerous the Tigers looks and how unpredictable they are in that last twenty when we scored all those points. But he was talking about Luai, how he dances all across the middle of the field and you never know what he's going to do. That's an asset. That's something we've got to learn to use. But I think he needs to pull it back a
little bit now. I don't know whether he's just trying too hard because we're struggling, we're not getting the wins, but we do need to change it up. Something needs to change.
But it's not just attacking structures like I'm managing halfback. Yeah, a lot of the attack comes comes off well no, not all the attack has to come off the half back. The management of who the attack comes off has to be managed, usually by the seven. But it's not just him putting someone through a gap. It's not just him straight in, don't I don't disagree with any of that. I agree with it one hundred percent. But it's just
managing the game. It's putting in the right kick at the right time, at the right spot, with everyone else on the field knowing that that's what's happening, and everyone's in sync because he's got He's got everyone in sync. And I'm not seeing that from him. And I'll go back to Luke Brooks. We never ever saw it from Luke Brooks, and we're seeing it again at Manned with Loue Brooks. He just can't do it right. You need
someone who can do that. And you know with Melbourne it used to be well it was a couple of players, but Kevin Smith was so good at just calm and everyone down and managing the team home. I know he did it from nine now had the help of someone like Kronk. You know they're at seven. But we don't have that.
We look.
You know, you mentioned how off the cuff we are, Nick, and that is an asset, But it's also us looking like we're chucks with our heads cut off and no one really knows where we're heading, where we're going, And it comes down to some piece of individual brilliance or the occasional good attacking structured play which usually involves Buller. You know, if I'm honest, that's what we're missing.
Yeah, it is.
It's absolutely his passing game and straight and he's running game.
So much more than that.
Something also that is reminiscent of our darker days. That happened in that game, and it's happened in all of our poorer our poorer plays, our poorer games, this year, probably in some of our wins too, but it hasn't been quite as noticeable. But we've spoken about it a fair bit on the pod through the years. But compounding mistakes, so you know, we drop a ball, hand the ball back to the opposition to a giveaway six again, and
then something else happens, and something else happens. It's sort of multiple things going wrong and not being able to sort of stem that flows. That's what makes me worried
about where we might be heading this year. I was pretty optimistic that we're going to be a little more competitive, and there's those moments of brilliance that you see Tower for example, you know, to roover Buller, you see it every now and then, But in terms of playing like a team and playing like most of the other teams in the competition, and we still seem a little bit off the pace, which is frustrating because theoretically, Gary, you would say that building a team to play in the
NRL's I don't want to use the term easy, because nothing in the NRL, because it's so competitive, is easy. But you would think the more attainable goal would be to build a good, solid team that defends well and makes meters but may not have the razzle dazzle to score a lot of points. But we're topsy turvy on that, which is sort of frustrating.
Yeah, well, I think a lot of it, and even a lot of what Steve was talking about still does come down to a lack of quality across the squad. I still think there's too many players in our top
seventeen who aren't up the NRL standard. And what that results in is you go out there and you you're playing on tilt a little bit, so you know that you've got weaknesses in your squad, so you try and that trying to score off like every set of six and stuff comes about because you know, we've got a guy in the side, he's likely to put a ball down. You know you've got a guy on the side, he's likely to give away a silly penalty, these sort of things.
And I'm not talking about for any individual, but across the squad. It makes it hard to play that really structured and really disciplined sort of football when when you've got those sort of people still in your team and players players know that they have that. And and you said something a little bit ago, Joel about our lack
of a lack of push from those second rowers. That makes a massive difference on across the park on what you're able to do with the ball, and it affects your shape and structure so much when you when you have those weaknesses. And for me, the biggest thing that the biggest issue we have is I think we're at least three players short of where we need to be to be a really competitive squad. To be it's a side that you would think, yeah, they're going to make
the top eight. I think we're still at least three players short and to be a genuine contender. We're probably four or five players that I think we need to upgrade on over the next couple of years. But I think we need strong upgrades on at least three players going into next season, possibly four.
I think it's interesting talking about the back row, as you know, we always tend to go back to see Fath and say, look, the guy's probably not the ideal man to have out there on the right edge, and we need to strengthen that. And you know, possibly with the rooms going around and getting that guy from Newcastle, maybe we are. But I just want to mention Sam Fay, who has really flying under the radar a little bit
this year. I think he's been injured, right, He's had he's had some injuries, and I think he's still not right because he's not nearly as impactful.
As he has been.
And I don't know whether that's that's because he's not getting the opportunity that they're not running that ball to him like.
We have previously.
But you know, having Sea Fuss on the right, who is not an attacking weapon, and then you go to the left and you go to Feinu who is either playing injured or not getting opportunity, and it's sort of like it means both edges of you know, we're shooting blanks.
Well, I think I think feyn Who is probably at that point where sides have watched a lot more football lining than they'd seen. They know how he likes to play, they know how he likes to receive the ball, and it gets called second year syndrome quite often. But once there's a little bit more vision out there about players and teams get to game plan around him a little bit, better players find that second year a lot harder, and the really good players they come through that and they
adapt their game. So I think he's at that point now, and I do agree at times he struggled, but there was a couple of nice runs from him last night. There was a really good punchy run that I saw from him that I remember seeing from him. So I'm still quite happy with how he's going. But definitely lock in a second second rower is something we're really missing this season and something we need to look at for next year. I'd want to be upgrading both of those for next.
Yearn And I hate to compliment another team's player, but you know, that's the standard that we need to be aiming for it Nick, at least one guy that's as impactful as he is. I mean, that's two steps ahead of what we've got there at the moment.
Yeah, he was really good. I tried to take that try off him that he'skilled, just stuff to kick off in the second half where he I thought he was half a step off side, but you're right, Gary, I slid it right down to the frame where the ball was leaving the foot, and I'll tell you what, he
was a millimeter perfect, Like it was that close. But even their take, like, yeah, it's so difficult running at full speed with a ball coming from behind you or over the top of your head to actually see it, have the composure to take it and then fend off whoever's in front of you and you know, run out of twenty meters of school. But yeah, that's quality. He's a quality back row.
He does that regularly. Yeah, Ever since he's come in to grade, he's made a pretty good under the high ball.
Well, these are the weapons in those key positions that we need. So hopefully kuy Piers Paul comes across. I've been watching him a little bit, like you said, Steve. You know, he's been a lot of rumors that he may be coming across next next season. He's a big boy and he's pretty skillful, so hopefully we can get him. I know, Gary, we've talked about a lock. He's still looking at a censer as well.
Yeah, I think we need a center as well. What about as I spoke earlier, if we could get the right half back, I'd be looking at a halfback as well. And I still think a prop I think we're still a prop short. Especially I think we're a starting prop short, someone with a bit more impact in that first twenty minutes because as I said, that's been an issue all season. I think will be an issue every single game where you play. Is that lack of impact in that first twenty minutes.
Can I ask what happened with Royce Hunt last night?
I can only guess that he's picked up some kind of injury. The fact that twel went off for Hia and didn't come back. I really hope that it sounds bad. I hope it was an injury. Yeah, because we needed him in that second half. We needed another stint from him because everyone else had to carry that load for him.
There are some positives. I want to talk about a couple of the positives. Positives, Yeah, absolutely, But I've done some math and I've taken a hundred seventy five thousand dollars which I think is popped up in the West Tigers Bank account in the last couple of days. And I think that's what seventeen and a half ref sprays. It does. Benji, he said the sin Binnings were harsh. They scored four tries in those twenty minutes when we
were down to play. But I mean, I know Eddie would be in agreement, but he's you know, does Benji need to come out, Steve and be a little bit more firm with what we're because it seems to be every single week we're not getting the rub of the green with the refs.
Yeah, that's right, but my answer is no, he can't do it at the moment because it takes shifts a blame away from what's happening with our playing group. Our playing group need to take absolute responsibility for that loss this weekend. It wasn't the referee. Yeah, he was tough. He was the same as he always is. We said it during the week right the minute I saw something as a referee, I said, where toast, We're gone right now. I say it jokingly, but I mean it because I know we're
not disciplined enough to handle his level of scrutiny. It's the same every single time he referees Is Klein as well. They are the two most officious referees that.
There are, and where the word.
I've been a little bit professional if I can, but there's a few other words that I've probably used to describe them as well. But the fact is that's the reality and we have to accept that. And as I said, you know, given away having the first twenty minutes that we had with a number of errors and penalties and symbans and rock infringentes that we had. You can't blame
something for that. The team need to take responsibility and and do whatever they have to do to not give away those momentum changes and those mistakes that end up us being on our goal line fifteen minutes into a game, having set after set after set bombarded on our line, which happened to happens to us most weeks. Then we fatigue. Then the back end of the half we fall apart.
See you said, you know, you looked at the referees and he knew who were gone. I looked in and saw it was dream Buller's fifty at ten or old game and one you who were gone.
We just cannot win a most game, we can't.
During Buller, he had a good game, one mistake which didn't end up being too costly. I was a little bit disappointed one of his defensive efforts when the Cowboys scored in the first half, But I thought, you know, he does provide such an attacking threat. But I've got a couple of guys here aside from Mason, and I want to talk about Mason and Latu Fainu in a few minutes, if that's all right. But I've got I've got a wrap on Tower. I thought he had a
really good game, provided a real attacking threat. I thought Charlie Stains accounted for himself really well, and Tony Suker off the bench provided something as well. For a guy that's only played a small handful of games, he seems to be gary. He looks to me like he's not out of place in NRL.
There's definitely some promise there with Soucca, and I would actually consider giving him a start soon over save Farf. I think he's providing more impact than say Half is providing, so I think he can be an option there on the edge. I do really want to address Toer. I've had my doubts about Tower. He seemed to be a guy who could play one, maybe two really strong games and then would kind of disappear and have a poor game or some really bad defensive reeds in a game.
His game's gone to another level this year, and I'm willing to call it now that he's This change is hopefully a permanent change. His upper body strength seems really strong at the moment. I'm really pleased when we get him early bore and it's a two and two situation. He's a chance of every time of creating space for his winger. Even the one that got intercepted last night. He got intercepted because he had drawn that center in and it was a bit of a fluky kind of intercept.
So he did really well in that. His upper body strength and that left hand fend that he's got going at the moment is a real danger. And I think Taruver's going to in the back half the season. We'll get plenty more tries just through the space that he's creating, and not just that he's scoring tries on his own. He's got to last night, yeah, where one of them was really really soft. But he seems really hard to put down an attackle right now. So yeah, I'm really
happy with the way he's playing. He's a very difficult to contain at the moment, so big comes up to tower. I didn't think he had this sort of play over a couple of months in him that I've seen from him so far this season. Gary, this have to do.
When I was trolling through X someone actually made a comment that said, why is it every time we played the Cowboys stuff and Tower turns into Melmaninger. I thought that was a very clever comment.
It was a very clever comment, but it's a little it's a comment that's a little unfair on him in my opinion this year, because he's been showing that level of play apart from when he was injured all season and that left hand fan has been causing his opposition center a lot of trouble all season. And it's not surprising that Taruvera is our leaguing try Square at the moment because it's because he's playing outside Tyer and Tower's providing him with plenty of space and plenty of good ball.
So it's been really pleasing to see you. I didn't I wouldn't have picked him. I didn't really want him in the side come round one. But he's the first center picked for us right now, and I'm happy for him to go into next season as one of our starting centers. I know that I.
Mentioned quite a few pods ago that listens to an interview with Benji not that long ago, and he was talking about Stafford. Was somebody asked him a question about Stafford and Benji's comment was that the last couple of seasons he's been playing with a lot of injuries and playing through injuries as well, and Benji's words were, he knew that what we're seeing with Stafford, especially with his consistency picking up now, he knew it was there. He just had to get fully fit and fully strong and
ready for NL to do it consistently. And I think that's what we're starting to see. So Benji's seen it and I think we're starting to see that on the field, which is really good.
He's still only twenty four and the more Wow really strings together, it feels like he's been around forever.
Yeah. Yeah, because he was at Newcastle before Heel was with us.
So turns twenty five this year. Yeah, so a lot of years still in him. So fingers Christ also do he I mean defensively, I think he's well from where he was twelve months ago. Gary coming back from that injury. I think he's turning into pretty decent defender. There was a couple of times last night I thought they might beat him and he managed to get there. He's obviously the center that you're saying that we need an upgrade on.
Yeah. Look, I just don't. I think he's having a good year. I think he's playing much better football than I expect. I wouldn't have had him starting side at all. In fact, I wouldn't have resigned him last year. But I think he's very safe at the moment. Defensively, for the most part, the effort is still there. I did see a little bit of laziness on the chase of one of their tries last night, but I can't really fauld him for that because the effort has been there
all season. I just want a little bit more, a little bit more danger out of him. He's still slow as a wet week, and I think we just need a little bit more, a little bit more threat out wide than what he can provide at the moment. But I'm very happy with how he's performed this year, and I'd be very happy to offer him a one year contract, pretty much on the knowledge that if we upgrade to another center that they probably get his spot. I think he's been good this.
Year, and his goalkicking has been very good as well.
Steve, when we do go into attacking structure and we have those sweeping plays that the tower is now such an important part of, and Also, bullet is a really important part of we sort of limit ourselves having do it center on the other side, because he's not that type of player. He's not a catch and pass, you know, at pace sort of player. He's more hit the line, deaf footwork at the line and try to jink his way through and maybe hold up defender and get a
ball away. And that doesn't really suit the structure that we show when we are showing structure. So I agree he's improved a lot, but I still find him fairly frustrating to watch because you know, the ball comes to him and then and then we go nowhere, we sort of got to start again. He's almost playing, you know, like a settling type hit up role in the attack, and I think we, you know, we need to be able to have that sweeping play on both sides of the field.
I think, yeah, No, I don't disagree, Heath Mason nick. He straightened the attack. He's got a lovely try himself. What I liked as well was that I didn't have my heart in my mouth every time the ball went out to our right, because it felt like defensively, he was a lot tighter than what we've had there previously Latsu feyn who if fit, Like, what are you doing with that number six Jersey or that number seven Jersey? Who gets it? Mace and all la to this weekend?
Yeah.
I had a quick chat over a messenger with Gary a couple of hours ago about this suit.
Did I reply? Yeah, you did? You did?
Maybe it's he covid you've got a bit of amnesia, but a different Gary. I'd probably Yeah, different Gary, I'd give Heath another run. If Lasi was fit, I'd probably put Latu on the bench. We're going to be missing twelve next week, so there's probably a lot position that we need to fill there, so there's probably a bit of shuffling that could happen too. So I think potentially once the game settles next week that potentially you could bring Latu on and put him in that thirteen sort
of role and get him ball playing as well. But I'd definitely give Heath another go. I don't think Heath did anything wrong. And one question actually had during the Midweek pod a couple of days ago about Heath was what his kicking game looked like. Because I hadn't seen it, I thought it was pretty good, Like it was no worse than what Jerome was putting in last night either. So I haven't seen any short kicks from him, but you could get the board out of feel pretty well.
So I like to assaw, Yeah, well, that's first game up in the line in first grade and he didn't look too out of place. Give him twenty twenty five games, there might be a player there.
Gary. Defensively, my biggest concern going into Yes They was him defending in the front line, and I thought he did a really good job of that, put his body on the line and made his tackles that he had to make. I thought he was really strong. What his performance last night, What it does for me is it means that we don't have to parachute in Latu Feu next week. And I think that's actually a really good thing.
La Two's coming back. He's been having hamstring issues for what is it like eighteen months now, So for me, Lar two plays reserve grade next week, and you build up his time, and you build him up properly and allow him to return in a safe manner, and heith Mason playing well last night provide you with that opportunity. Now he could turn around on Sunday and have a really poor game and then you don't have a choice
but to look at Latu. But at this point in time, Latu at Heath Mason gives you the benefit of being a little bit more careful with Latu, and I think we do need to be I do want to see Latu in the haves for a good chunk of time this season, because, like, if that's what we're moving forward with, I'd like more more data on how he's going to go in that area. But I think Mason did a solid job last night and looked dangerous with the boar, and I think is a really good option for us
next week. I'll be picking him at five to eight next weekend.
Just what I'm not think. On Heath too, it looks really really well received by the boys, So he looks like one of the boys. And there's been articles about Heath over the last couple of days about how much he loves the club and he doesn't want to be anywhere else but West Tigers.
And he played like that too.
He really took that opportunity. And Gary, what you're talking about defensive wise too, at fullback he is behind the line a lot of the time defense and he's a little fella, and when big boys or anyone's running at him at speed and he's waiting to make that impact, he does look a little bit fragile there. But in the halves last night he was in the defensive line and up really quick because he's so explosive off the mark.
Who I think that helps Hi out of defense. But he didn't shy away, he didn't give anything away, you know, body size wise, he was up in that defensive line quicker than anyone.
I really liked what I saw.
One hundred percent. Jarrell Skelton apparently back as well. We well know more on the midwek pod, but that you know, I guess most people would say he'll come in for Charlie stains. But I don't think Charlie deserves to be dropped. But you know, I get that Skelton has more impact. Gary, I was going to ask you there were some wins in the lower grade, which is fantastic to see that new Southos Cup team got to win. Oh my goodness, it's a miracle.
But you watch the game.
I believe anybody, take your fancy might come into first grade. Kitler Lily is the one that sort of I have on my mind given twe I was going to be.
At Yeah, Kip, I thought kit was quite strong. I do want to see him move up into that first grade side. Luke, who played fullback, was very dangerous, scored a really nice try, created space for players outside him, so I thought he did a really good job playing fullback. So yeah, it was a really solid game yesterday. It was kind of the opposite of the first grade. They got off to a really nice lead and then Newtown really came back at them at the end and they
just managed to hold on. But yeah, Luke really impressed me yesterday. He was the standout for me in that game. So I think we'll be seeing him in first grade again at some point this year.
I watched the highlights of that one today going on the website. So Talon looked like he was doing normal.
Talent, played really well. I thought he was very Yeah, he had had a great game. Really look like he's fighting for it to get his spot back to me, and yeah, it was probably the best player on the field.
Did he get through eighty minutes?
I can't quite remember. I was actually watching two games at once. I was watching the reserve grade game in the NFL game that was on at the same time, so I can't tell you whether he played the full ady. Okay, all right, well.
It's another West Tigers podcast. It's another post defeat edition of the West Tigers podcast. I could do these blindfolded and with my you know, with my ears blocked, because we've done so many, We've got so much practices at post post loss editions of the pod.
So what says this is number four hundred and five or something, So what at least three eighty of those you see?
Can I just say, Steve's face just looks like a permanent post loss face. Steve, Steve, can you smile? I know, I know this is audio and no one can see you, but I'm looking at you, mate, and you just look sad.
Thanks Nick, Look knowing you have to come on here and speak to you for an hour, Nick, it kind of does that. Thanks Gary.
Well, as I said right at the beginning, if it wasn't for that comeback, and not that the comeback really means much to me, but at least it gives me, gave me a little bit of energy and a little bit of enthusiasm, because if things had continued on from the sixty minute mark to the eighty minute mark. On that same trajectory, there wouldn't have been this edition of the West Tigers Podcast. I was yeah, I was just over it anyway.
Yep, Nick and Penrith Panthers next week, that's going to be. That's going to be tough. I know Penrith is still below us, but for how much longer I don't know. So I can just see it now. Figers lose to Penrith next week, the media is going to be all about Penrith and there climb back up the ladder.
So just go straight to the negative. What happens when they lose next week? I'll be talking about him getting the wooden spoon again.
Eddie's word was actually spoon watch, so he is on spoon watch. He could obviously be on suicide watch for Eddie. I'm looking out for you, mate. I hope you're right.
Batman versus Robin big game this weekend. Let's leave that for the MIDWEK pod.
Thank you guys, Jeers guys, thanks for DS Boss