West Tigers Podcast, episode number four hundred and six, joined by Gary and Jordan. Tonight. You've been a regular. When I say regular, Jordan, you've been a regular guest the past couple of years. So thank you for stepping up and taking the ball and running it forward tonight. We're a bit like the West Tigers. We're sort of running it low on troops. Few injuries and excuses for some of the boys, So thank you for coming on.
Oh is made happy to be here. I'm happy to jump up from New South Wales Cup or ron Massy Cup wherever I get pulled from.
And I was going to ask you one of Richo's clients, because that seems to be away the first grade side of you with Richose Sports or whatever it's called.
I've got an NDA on that I can't really talk about.
It, Okay, fair enough, So midweek pod we get a talk. Obviously, the game against Penrith on Sunday afternoon you got his quiz will be a little bit of pie cell hole. But before that I've asked the boys, because Gary, I am seen as you missed the negative. I've decided the first fifteen minutes tonight they're going to be all positive. So for the people that don't like positives, you can log back on and listen after the fifteen minute mark
where it might change tack. But I've asked the boys what are the three biggest positives since this time last year as a club. So you could just give me one of the time boys, and if we repeat each other, we can skip over them. But Jordan, I'll start with you, what's one of your biggest three?
That we have more wins than probably the entirety of last season. I think that's a big positive. We've definitely looked more competitive. Yeah, there's been a couple of games we looked a bit off, but I only got to watch the Cowboys game yesterday through replay, and I saw I was monitoring the score was at a family event. But I think the second half played really well. I thought there were some really positive positive aspects to that game.
But yeah, I'd say the more wins and that we've been a lot more competitive is probably as the biggest positive.
Gary one of yours.
I'm going to go for the new players that we have brought into the club. A couple of them have had a couple of poor weeks, but guys like Taruva, Terrell may Skelton when he's managed to get on the field and he's back this weekend. I think they've been massive contributors to us. I think there's more change needed, but the new players that have come into the club over the past twelve months have has started to make a big difference.
Just to tack on to Jordan's point that was one of mine. It's undeniably a more competitive team. So it's gone from two wins at this point last year, from twelve games to five, and even of those seven losses, I'd argue this five than we could have won. You know, the Newcastle game Round one, we led eight mill at halftime, lost by two. The Warriors game we led with five
minutes to go and got beat by two. Paramounta game we did lose by sixteen, but I think we were on the attack with five minutes to go, down by four, with all the momentum in that game. Sea House game, we dropped the ball over the line which would have won us the game. And the Cowboys game, obviously we won twenty eight to six with thirteen on thirteen, but it means nothing, Jordan. If unfortunately we had two men in the sinbin. Any other positives you've got from twelve months ago.
Well, probably actually the lack of symbins we've had. I think those two sinbins on the weekend were unfortunate, but compared to last season as well, I think the minimal amount of sinbins we've had in comparisons are positive. We should be probably experts playing with twelve players on the field.
But yeah, the sinbins and some disciplines picked up. There are a couple of players that still really need to fix up their discipline and sort out a few issues there just giving away silly penalties or restarts at the wrong time. But I think discipline and the sinbinning fiasco from last season has definitely subsided for this year.
One of mine, Gary, was probably along your lines. It was the big signings actually playing good football at the club. We've probably only had happy in the past who could be in that category, and I think we've got three guys this year, especially Terrell May and Taruva. I think they've been nine out of tens and Lewi's probably been a seven. I think for what he's brought more so probably off the field than on the field at this present stage, but very early days in his tenure.
What else have you got for me on the positive side, Yeah, it's really going to tie into that off field aspect you were talking about, and I think the culture at the club, while still a work in progress, I think is much improved from what we've seen before. The fighting the team that's come from that is much better than what we're seen before. Outside of that Melbourne Storm game that.
Was just diabolical.
Even last weekend, they didn't give up. They fought back into that game last week. I know the Cowboys took their foot off the pace a little bit, took their foot off the pedal and that's when we stormed back into the game. But there's fight in this team, and I do believe that there's an improvement in standards across the clubs starting to build as well, and that's through that leadership and those new players coming into the side.
So I think there's been an improvement in our Culture's still a way to go, but that is on the improve for me.
Any others for you, Jordan, either on field or off field positives?
I think, apart from obviously the Galvin saga, I think the lack of stuff coming out of the club, the rumors, the talk, the media beat up. The Galvin situation was more probably external and management and his manager. But I think it has been a lot less drama field. We're not really in the headlines every other week and there's
not a lot coming out of the club. Although it would be nice to actually hear about or see some of these signings that we were kind of teased with a few over a month ago now by Richal on one of the pods, So it'd be actually nice to see some of those signings because we need troops, and we even need troops for this year because we're scrape and the bottom of the barrel for the forward stocks at the moment.
That was sort of my final big positive Gary. I know it's been a bit of a sort of slow burn with churning through I guess the upper management of the club, But do you feel like it's heading in the right direction, even if you put aside in our recent losses.
Yeah, that for me is my third one. It's the off field.
I think the club is in a better position now than it was twelve months ago, and a lot of that's on field, a lot of that's off field. I think Richro's starting to have an effect throughout the club. I don't think Richo's had the best past month, but I think the club is still on that upward kind of direction, and hopefully that continues over the rest of the season.
Obviously with the new independent board and Richo's been there now for over twelve months, probably eight eight months. He's been there, Jordan, do you still maintain the same sort of faith you have in him or does he need a little bit more help inside that building.
I still maintain the faith. I believe he is probably the best operator and the operator we need. He's definitely putting the club in the right direction. Commercially, he's trying to build the football team. You know, he's plugged a lot of leaks. He's probably got a lot of weight to throw around in that thing. I think he just doesn't understand part of especially with Tigers fans and always
wanting positive news. Maybe just be a bit more tight lipped in relation to signings or if there's going to be announcements, or don't put a time frame on it, because everyone sat there on tenderhooks for two three weeks and we're still waiting.
Everyone set the calendar alerts for three weeks time.
I as hours and minutes and days. I think it's been forty three days Gary since he went on that podcast. But you said that was probably one of his only big mistakes he's made, you reckon.
I think it needs to be more aware of.
Jordan said of the scar tissue that this fan base has, and the fan base myself included, is hanging out for positive news constantly.
Around the context he did say it was on James Graham's podcast, it was two days after the Paramatta game, which is basically six weeks ago, about forty two forty three days ago. He did say, I'm paraphrasing, there'll be two or three new signings in the next few weeks, so who knows. I don't think he was referring to the women's team or State Cup contract.
Definitely not marry.
But do you think one or two of them might have fallen through or haven't come to fruition or do you still think that's cooking.
I know, I think there's lots going on in the background. I'm guessing at the moment we're kind of like the duck with its feet underwater. Looks all calm on top, but I'm sure there's a lot going on in the background, and I'm sure I think that the the Pierce Paul rumor has been around for a while now, and I would have to think that one is probably fairly close
to being done. So I'm sure there's a couple of others that the club is talking to and hopefully they come through as well, and over the next couple of weeks we get those announcements of some players, hopefully a couple for this year, but definitely some for next year.
I think it's really important.
Just last one on Richo for now, Jordan, do you think you know, if he's to be here, hopefully for another three or four years, that he should be on in the role of sort of looking after memberships and stadiums or do you think this combination of him and Benji without a recruitment off saw without a general manager of football. I know Matt Betsy's in that sort of
interim role. Do you think that's enough inside the club or do you think they need a general manager of football or another football he'd head in there to keep the momentum going.
I guess it depends on the dynamic. Like some clubs, you want a CEO to focus on the commercial side, the membership side and everything, and you want that football manager for recruitment. But I guess at the same time we had that before, and it's more of a case of is it you know, too many cooks, you got too many people, you know, we try to bring in Scott Fulton and that just ended up being an absolute disaster. So it's more of a case of is it simpler just to have Richo and Benji doing it and is
it working. Yeah, I'd give it a pass mark for the moment, but I don't think there would be any real rush to bring in a general manager of football if it's not needed.
For me.
I have a look at the track record of bringing players across so far, and the majority of Ritro signings have been an improvement on what we had before. So we got rid of off A Luma at the start of last year, and we signed Taruva for this year, we lost Stefano and we end up with money. All
those are improvements. We've also picked picked up for our Skelton as a winger as well, so I think everywhere where we've kind of missed out, I think it's been an improvement after now it's a very tough to improve on the loss of Locky Galvin, but so far I think what we've had going out has been replaced by are coming in.
So I'm quite happy with how that's going at the moment. So I think he's doing a really good job of that recruitment process for the club.
I actually got this idea about being sort of starting on a positive note by reading the West Tigers forum. And I'm just going to reference a specific post. It's around sort of our local juniors, Jordan, because there's been obviously a little bit of a blowback since we've lost Galvin and obviously lost one or two last year. But it was a post by the name of actually West Tiger's a not very creative name, but it was a
good post. He said about retention. Let's not rewrite the story in terms of the narrative around that we can't hold onto our juniors, he said, We've retained just off the top of my head, Buller, Makassini, Mason, the Lal Lilly Brothers, Pole and then there's a couple of state, couple younger guys, and I'm not sure I can't read my own writing here, so I won't read them out. He said. We've lost Lucky Galvin, but we've also picked
up from you know, other juniors. We've picked up the Finer Brothers to RuvA, Stafford Tower, who was a Newcastle of junior. He says, let's just focus on making the right decisions going forward, not ones driven by outside noise or hypothetical future predictions. Your reaction to that.
Yeah, And look, we've also kept a few guys like Phoenix got an a and to Power.
Money write down. Sorry, I just couldn't read my writing.
Yeah, you know, and there's some good young forwards, like we've retained a few. We've got that young hooker Hayward as well. There's we're definitely moving some ranks around in the juniors that we're able to hold on to them, you know. And god And is even a Moses client, so we were able to hold on to him even though there was serious interests from Union and whatnot. Macasini was actually probably the biggest one that we needed to hold on to. I still him to probably make his
NERL debut sometime this year once he turns eighteen. But we are retaining juniors. The Galvin one, I think, unfortunately no matter what. If you know, maybe if there was different circumstances with manager or his parents, I think there was probably an absolute Buckley's chance that we held on to him, just with all the other circumstances going around on the back. You know, if the money they're talking about that he sacrificed is true, what chance did we really have?
Yeah, I tend to agree with the Galvin one. I don't want to get stuck on him tonight, Gary, But do you have any thoughts about local juniors. Do we still have a problem in in terms of retaining our best or is it sort of the Galvin was a one off case.
Well, at this point it's a little bit of a one off case. We'll see what happens over the next couple of months. We've got telling them to see who's also off contract at the end of next year, so it will be interesting to see what happens in that regard. I think what we're fairly good at at the moment is keeping those guys who are in the pathway system. Still, we don't tend to lose that many from the pathway system.
We lost large earlier in the year who went over to Manly, but for the most part, we're good at keeping them at that level. Those players that are making the NRL side now from our juniors. It's really only that first wave of guys who are coming through now, so it's still to be seen how well we keep them once they make it to the NRL level.
All right, Jordan, I wasn't. The Boys were on Sunday night and they went through their one words. I wasn't on, so I've got my won't. It's actually two words. But do you have a word to describe that performance against the Cowboys?
Probably, if anything, it would have been sporadic, like with the events of the game and everything that happened we and like that. You watch the footage of Lewi spraying bird and them trying to get on top of it. That there, it was sporadic, but we still managed to score points. So I think if if we can sort of kind of hone in on that and and calm it down a little bit, will be a lot more, will be a lot better and lock structured. I liked what I saw of Mason, and I think he can
straighten us up a bit. But yeah, I just think we looked a bit sporadic with what we tried to do and it sort of kind of undid us in certain points.
We'll get to the game preview Gary laid in regards to team changes, But I thought that was a huge positive to come out of the game. Mason.
He was He was dynamite, Yeah, very lusive, very good footwork. I want to see what he's passing game is like. He didn't really do much passing in that game. I haven't seen a lot of it when he was at fullback I ever. I thought when he played fullback earlier in the season he struggled to create the shape and make the players outside him better.
So that's probably the.
Biggest challenge for him at the moment is how well that passing game he's able to implement, because if you're playing five eight, you need to have a passing game. But he's running game looked excellent on the weekend. And what really impressed me about his game on the weekend wasn't with the ball. I was really worried about him being a target in defense, but I thought he really held his position defensively, really strongly, probably better than what
Galvin has so far into his career. So it was a very good defensive effort from Mason on the weekend.
Difficult one for me to lineup Jordan because we often go on this podcast about glass half full and glass half empty, and I mean, you look at that game and I just feel like it was so winnable. Like if we were to play him again next week in North Queensland, I'd be really confident. But don't now if that makes me more angry or or you know, because I just feel like, you know, Steve, particularly on our pot e, he hammered us. And I think that's fair.
Is that no point blaming referees. You know who's going to be referee. When you haven't been a strong club for ten years, you're probably going to get the bad end of the decisions. And I thought whilst they were softs in winnings, I just thought, especially in the first twenty minutes, it was really disappointing coming off of buy And it's something that we've really struggled with this year. Is that starts to games.
Yeah, definitely. And I don't think it makes you mad at you. I think it makes you a West Tigers fan. It's yeah, if it's not the start of games, it's that ten minute period after halftime, or it's you know, it's that ten minute period on either side of the break.
We've got to like it's it's very, very hard to think of a time that we actually played an eighty minute game, that we played a game that we really put structure everything, put a team to the sword that wasn't injury riddled, or you know, we haven't put an eighty minute performance against a top tier team. The closest one was possibly the Sharks game, but even then that got too close for comfort. But we've got to find that ability to start a game strong and maintain it.
We have to be able to maintain that momentum and that strength and not fall apart the moment of decision or a sin binning or you know, something that goes against us and we just seem to go weak at the knees.
Interesting point I thought Steve made Gary that I was nodding my head on when I was listening on Monday, is that now our wins tend to be ones that
are a little bit frantic. I still don't feel in some of our wins outside of the first paramounta game in Newcastle game that we control games in terms of the collision and in terms of game plan and just playing the long game, it seems like I think Steve used to quote, you know, our heart rates aret one hundred and eighty at the end of the game, which is spot on in terms of that shaft and that Dragons win. Do you feel like that is potentially something that's going to hold us back in terms of the
style of football that we're playing. Is it a coaching thing or is it a roster thing.
I think it's a ruster thing.
I think I answered Steve on this the other night by saying, we're going to be frantic when you're worried as a team that you've got guys in the side that you don't just don't trust to hang on the ball or not make a stupid mistake, Like it's really hard to build pressure when you don't hold onto the ball for long enough. And what that then leads to is it leads to guys probably trying to do a little bit too much, a little bit too early, and
that just compounds the issue. And I think that's why we kind of look frantic and a little bit all over the shop. Is I still think despite I think the morale and the guys are playing for each other. I still think there's guys who probably feel they have to do too much because they can't rely on a few few weaknesses in the team.
Jordan, what are your expectations for the rest of the season. I mean a lot of hope that first six weeks and we're sort of at least on the ladder. We're still in that top eight race. So you look it up or you like me, and you're starting to get worried and look down.
I'm starting to get worried about a forward pack. I'm starting to get worried about how thin we're looking. We really need some signings, and they can't just be depth signings. We need some mid range signings. We need some guys that are actually going who aren't at the club at other clubs are struggling to make first grade, but are actually going to, you know, put pressure on those first
graders to make the spot their own. Where my expectations for rest of the season I have and I'm not going to make a prediction just so Gary, can you give me crap about it for a I wouldn't do that on a year on year never, but I have a feeling that we will go for a run. I have a feeling that there will be some part in the season that that's that will that'll that will follow me forever. And if we don't win three in a row, which obviously means will never win the finals or a
Grand Final because you have to win three at least. Yeah, if we never win three in a row, I'll make sure that three in a row row statement is on my tombstone.
We've been close a few times. I think we've won two in a row about three times since you said it. So yeah, technically a good prediction, just unlucky.
Yeah, well, I still I still maintain that the by count at the end of last year. But Gary's Gary is pretty stoic on that.
Well, Gary to flip to negative Eddie, my one word was spoon watch because I I do fear I look at the analytics. I won't call it Eddie's gambling, but it's sort of Eddie's gambling at the moment. I look at the drawer we had for the start of the year. We've played twelve games. We've played the team running fifteenth twice. We've played the team running sixteenth twice. We've played the Cowboys who won't make the eight. We've played Souse, who
I don't think we'll make the eight. We've played the Dolphins, who don't think we'll make the eight. We haven't played We've played two teams or two games against teams in the top four. And I look at the next seven
or eight weeks and I'll go through it quickly. Penrith who are fourteenth, so it can be deceptive, but defending premiers that need to win, Raiders who are second at Brookvale, Manly who was seventh at Roosters we were actually twelve, but Buckley's chance to winning there at Warriors, Titans at home, please win that, Penrith again and then the Bulldogs. That is the next eight games. That to me is a bit of a gauntlet the way we're trending.
Yeah, it's definitely a tough period in our season. As I've said to you many times in the past week that you haven't liked. We have to be better.
We need to play much better than we played last weekend. We need to play much better than we played the weekend before. The really important thing in the NRL is you can't afford to go on those losing streaks. That's where your season turns poor, that's when you come into contention for the wooden spoon, and it's really important to break a losing streak earlier. I think this weekend's game
is really crucial. If we don't put in a good performance this weekend, then I can definitely see the season really taking a downward turn.
You mentioned the roster before Jordan. Is there any signing that could happen in the next couple of weeks? So it looks like that Kye Piers Paul is probably one for next season. But are you okay with potentially waiting until next year if there's a couple of good ones or do you think that we can't just afford to throw another season away? And the fact we've lost Gallen for nothing at the moment means we need immediate reinforcements before June thirty.
We do. We need immediate reinforcements before June thirty. We need at least two players who are on the edge of other teams that are going to improve us now, whether that is a six month deal or an eighteen month deal, like I know, we can't do it at the expense of next year. We want to make sure we build the roster even better than we can for
next year. But we need to be looking at two players at least that are going to come in and put pressure on or even come into the team immediately and make an impact, because especially now with tour with concussion, and that's that's a concern in its own right. You know,
se Fath has been moved around. We need we need, we need a second rower at least, like I know Piece Paul will be next year and he'll probably be starting second row next year, but we need another outside back and we need another forward or a middle that is going to help out. Because I look at the bench and I look at our second row, Like Suka has impressed me in parts of his game, but I keep looking at that bench and I just think to myself, how is that an NRL bench?
Well, it's a really tough one for me, Jordan. I like, six month contracts don't really happen in the NRL. I don't think you're going to pick up someone for six months. And the issue you do have is exactly what you spoke about, is whether you sell, like you have to sell a position to someone to get him to come across for multiple years and and the effect that has on your ability to build the squad for next season
and twenty twenty six. It's a really fine line to walk, and I'm glad I don't have to make that decision because we definitely need upgrades for this year.
But how to do that while setting.
Yourself up to be in a really good position for the next one, two, three years is the really hard part about it, And hopefully rich O gets that right. Hopefully someone like that Kuypis Paul signing can turn into a position that's for this year instead of next year, because that's a signing that I think improves us next year, but would make a massive difference to us this year and could make a big difference on that edge for this season.
I want to talk about the coach Jordan for a minute, because it will be interesting to see what happens. Like I was quite taken aback by listening to start of our podcast on Sunday and the boys spent about ten minutes that start talking about the worry about potentially what is in store for Benji over the next couple of months.
Is there a baseline that he has to achieve this year where you'd be comfortable saying he's under no pressure, or do you think he is under pressure heading into the second half of the year.
He's always going to be under pressure personally, I think from what we've seen through the team and how we've played, and the improvement and the fight and call me nuts, but for me, it's a pass mark At the moment, I think there is enough there to show that with another twelve months under his belt, another preseason, and a couple of extra recruits, he has the ability to turn this team into exactly what we want it to be. So, yes,
he'll be under pressure. If we go on a six to seven game losing streak, and hopefully that's not the case, the media pressure will get louder. But I think at the moment, if we jag half the amount of wins or three wins over the next seven weeks, I think it'll still be enough just to sort of kind of hold the dogs back before people start questioning whether he should be coaching twenty twenty six.
I like that one, hold the dogs back. I've've heard that one before. I like it, Gary, I actually have like I just think he's got to avoid the spoon. And that's how it might sound stupid because people will go, well, what's the difference between finishing fifteenth and finishing last? But I just don't know if the club can maintain the
ambush that they receive if they if they came last. Again, remembering that he was the the quasi sort of coach in twenty twenty three, even though he wasn't officially the coach, he was the coach in twenty twenty four, and we've upgraded, and with upgrades comes increased the expectations for twenty twenty five. But I just think he's got to get a few wins you get by this season. I actually have low hopes, not even low hopes, but a low bar. I don't
think he's got to get close to the eight. He's just got to continue to improve the side in terms of their competitiveness. If he can replicate the first half of the season in the second half, which I have big doubts about, I think it'd be a big tick for him. But where do you sit in terms of like either the number of wins or position he's got to get or is it basically that you know, looking at every game and how competitive and if the side's improving.
Well, for me, it's not just about where we finish this season. If we end up with the wooden spoon, I think he's in a lot of trouble. But if we avoid that wooden spoon, plus he's able to get out into the market and bring in two three more quality plays for next year, then that buys in more time.
So I think it's not just what we do on the field that's important.
It's what we do with the squad between now and the end of the season as well. If we're looking at going in to next season with a far superior side, then I think there's a lot of credit of that that has to go to Marshall. If you listen to all the players that have come across our club since he's been the coach, they all talk about coming across because it's Benji Marshall they're playing under.
And if he can bring in another two, three, four, seventeen between like that makes a big difference, and I think I think that buys him more time.
So just to clarify, Gary, you're like me, if you think he can win eight, eight or nine games, Let's see if they finish eight or nine games and they finish fourteenth, fifteenth or sixteenth that's enough.
My big thing is I want to see progress. I want to see progress of the squad and I want to see progress of the team.
Now, if.
We win that eight or nine game, but we're playing really poor football, then I think they're still going to be questions asked. But if we if we can. For me, it's about getting away as far away from that wooden spoon as you can and getting some players in. But I if he's anything above kind of that bottom quarter, I think he's definitely safe.
I just think I don't want to say the club's trapped Jordan, but I just don't see how we could replace him at the moment because I just think Leui particularly is tied to Benji Taruva. I think is tied to Benji, and by starting again and firing a club legend, even if they were to come bottom two or three, I think you just start the whole process again.
Yeah, I agree, And look we're not we're not held at gunpoint. In relation to the relations he does have with the players, I understand. And it is hard because you've got that clause in Loui's contract. As Gary mentioned that the amount of players that say they are playing for him and the way they look he looks after them and what he's bringing out of them. And you're seeing improvement in players from last year, and you're seeing improvement from players that were already at the club, so
their past marks. As far as I'm concerned, there's a lot to actually look in the scale of it. But you're right, unless there was an amazing replacement that you could do, and you know, I agree with the wooden spoon. If we got that, that would make it very hard. But there is enough there even now for me to go okay. I would give him another eighteen months. Then if we're you know, we're not competitive, like proper competitive, that's when we probably have to start going okay, this
isn't working how we want it to work. So I think he needs more time.
It's really crucial for this club not to be in a position where we start again, Like if we get to the point and we move Benji Marshall on and say it's after a wooden spoon, which you guys are using as the criteria, we're not in a position next year to get away from that wooden spoon. So what are we looking at five? Like half a decade of Wooden spoons, this is something we need to actually work. So I think we need to put that support in
in around him. And I think what's really crucial right now is Jordan mentioned and I mentioned as well about how the players say they came here to play for him, but we saw Lui and Appia and how they spoke about him when the Galvin news broke. And I've said this a number of times now, but I think it's crucial to our season and I think it's crucial to
Benji Marshall's career. Is that instead of just saying that they came here to play for him, instead of just talking big and saying how much support they've got of him, they really need to show it on the field.
The two biggest weeks scary were Paramatta and then Cowboys this week, and we didn't show it.
No, And they were the times where, depending on the media reports you listen to, that Benji made decisions based around what he wanted but also what the players wanted. And Galvin came straight back into the NFL side because
against Paramatta we didn't aim up well enough. And then we get rid of Galvin last week and we go into last week and a time where the players can stand up and show that Benji Marshall made the right choice and they can support him in what must have been a two really tough calls that he had to make.
I don't think they've performed on the field to show that support to him, and I think that's really crucial over the next couple of weeks that these players that talk about their love of Benjie Marshall and how they love playing under him and how they support him show that support on the field. And I think it's really it's crucial not just to our season, but to Benji's career.
One of my concerns Jordan is just I had a look before the defensive numbers. I said it preseason. I said, I thought we could maybe be a top eight side in attack. But I worry. You know, the best teams, or the teams that you look at Canterbury who've gone from the bottom and turn themselves into a top club, is built on defense. And we're actually averaging now twenty
six points a game. I know, with the rule changes and whatnot, the points per game are higher, so it's not like you have to be averaging under twenty anymore. Twenty six seems a bit concerning number.
Yeah, I also think if if we only lost out there, I know, yeah, the Melbourne blowout and stuff like that, because I think the opening six weeks or something, we were the second or third best defensive team. So yeah, there's been a bit like we are scoring points and we can score points, but yes, defensively at the moment, especially over the last four or five weeks, we haven't
been we haven't been great. But I also think that it has a lot to do with the amount of rotation and changes we've had to do in our forward pack. We're not getting consistency with our forwards and who's starting where and Jack Bird coming in starting or he's not in, or the props are changing and the locks changing. So I think that comes down to part of it. Because when we had consistency in our forward pack, our numbers,
our defensive numbers were a lot better. So I think more or less there is improvements everywhere and there, but yeah, it has dropped off the last month.
One of my sort of mental rules in regard to rugby league is if you score more than twenty four points in a game, you shouldn't lose that game. So That's kind of one of my theories on rugby league. And if you're averaging twenty six points against you during the season, then you're going to lose more games than you're winning because you need to be doing much better
than that. And I know the rules have changed over the last couple of years and points are higher, but you need to be keeping sides way close to that twenty point mark. Why don't you start getting twenty six to thirty. That signs that you're a port defensive team for.
Me, all right, let's do quick buysell hold one of our regular segments, Jordan Midweek pot. I'll fire the first one to you. West Tigers should prioritize retaining Talon the silver over extending happy corrousal buy or sell.
That selling it why, I Talon's got a lot of ability and talent. I have no doubt about that, and I'm pretty sure it's actually Gary pointed out to me in relation to Harry Grant. I'm sick of these kids and these players holding us to gunpoint because they believe that somehow a nineteen year old kid has more force and ability and per see on a veteran of Appy's
statue in the game. If you have the ability to sign someone like Appy and he's playing good football, even if it is for another twelve months, and you don't have the patience as a nineteen year old to sit there and learn of one of the great hookers in the game, then maybe we should be looking to bring in the next kid who's coming through, which is that
Haywood kid, and allowing him to learn off Appy. I'm sick of the entitlement of some of these guys who think that they should be top dollar and top dog when they've only just put their foot in the water.
Well, I'm going to preface what I say about this that it's based off speculation, that of stuff that we've read in newspaper reports.
But for me, if I've got no issue.
If Talent of Silver decides that Appy's blocking his pathway so he decides to go to open market and see what's availer, I've got no issue with that whatsoever. What I do have an issue with is the story that came out in the newspaper stating he told the club that if they resign Appy corros Ow, he would be going to market. Now, if you go off and make that decision, and you do that. It's the ultimates them around that that I don't like.
Like, I don't think do you think.
That's that unusual though, Gary, even if he said that behind the closed doors, it probably isn't.
But it got into the media. That's where the issue it comes for me, and I personally wouldn't want him saying that. I'm sure it happens all the time, but I don't know why a nineteen year old should be saying to the club, if you sign Appy horus Our, a guy who's played State of Origin, has one multiple premierships at multiple clubs, has thinks they can go to their club and say, if you re sign him, I'm going to look elsewhere. Now more the fact that it then ends up in the media. Now, I'm sure it
happens all the time. I just don't like it and the Harry Grant example, and I do want to stay Oh, that's just based off what we've read in the newspaper. Like, I don't know anything about it, and if it didn't happen, then I've got no issue whatsoever. But if that's what happened, I really don't like that because when you look at a guy like Harry Grant, and I know he was at Melbourne, and I know he was behind Cameron Smith, but he played two first grade games before he turned
twenty two. So you have look at how me games talent of Silver's paid now. And I know where the Wooden Spooners. I know it's a different club, but the patience that guy had to actually sit there and wait for arguably the best look of all time to retire. But Afikras has been one of the better hookers of the last ten years in the game, so I think he deserves a little bit more respect than that. And that's all based off if that actually happened or not.
I don't know that it did, but I'd hope he would be a little bit more supportive and could look, as Jordan said, at what he could actually learn from playing closely with someone like Happy Curus.
Just start playing Devil's Advocate. Jordan's not necessarily I agree with this, but my job as host to ask questions, what are you know, like what could it be irresponsible? Though? If the Tigers say, well, you know, we're going to resign Happy because he's been so good, We're going to give him one or two more years as a thirty four year old when the drop off, you know, when players get their mid thirties, it usually is a drop off,
especially playing the middle of the field. And we've got a potential guy here that can play for the next decade plus. You don't think any of that's potentially irresponsible, No, I don't think it's irresponsible.
I think it's more of a case that, Okay, so we resign Happy for two years, what it'll be thirty six, possibly by the end of it thirty two now, so he's not thirty, but yes, okay, so be thirty four nearly thirty five. If Talon decides to sign behind him at the same time, he'll be what twenty one, So it's and yeah, he can be a decade player and whatnot as well. But it's I don't think it's irresponsible. I think it's more of a case of going, well,
we can start transitioning you, same with Appy. We can we Eventually it would get to that point where maybe in that last year of Appy's deal, he's the fourteen and talent's nine, and Happy comes on for fifteen twenty minutes in a game just to have that experience and you know, trouble, which he was doing at Penrith exactly
which he was doing at Penrith. So I think it's more of a case of going, you know, instead of jumping out of the boat the moment you think you're going to be blocked by someone like Corrosow, how about you sit there for the ride, and then eventually you'll be the captain at the front and you'll have Happy behind you, you know, still mentoring you and still helping you and showing you the way and taking that reduced role.
I think it also depends on how much faith they have in Heyward, the guy that's coming up underneath as well. If they see him as a better prospect moving forward than what they say talent of silver, then.
That gives you a little bit more kind of room to move on that and.
Probably a little less tied to what talent does. So I think it comes to down to how highly they rate the Hayward coming through.
I'm just not sure Gary about that Penrith example he used because he was still playing the bulk of the game.
That was, he was still playing more the bulk of the game, but he had no issue coming off the bench, And which leads me to to believe that now that he's moving into the thirties by the time he's thirty three thirty four. I don't think he's going to have an issue of coming off the bench at that point either. He never really kicked up a stink about not starting games, and players like to start, no matter what they tell you.
Being part of the seventeen is still not the same as being part of that starting thirteen.
Just last one on Talon Jordan, is it have you sort of player that he is? I sort of think, you know, like, I don't think he's a Robbie Farah coming through, but I don't think I think Robbie Farrer and Happy by large are probably I'm not going to say a dying type of hooker, but that creative sort of hooker. He's not that usual for me these days. It's more guys that are powerful and fast out of dummy half. And you look at Little now. The way he's playing and talent for me is a lot better
than Little at the age. And whilst I think he's more a runner than a passer, do you think he has to develop his game or if he's been pressed by what you're seeing.
He does have to develop his game. That's actually probably the difference with Hayward. Hayward is, Yeah, he's he's a bit more of a schemer. He's a bit more of the the creative style hooker that Pharah and Corrousales style.
Talent.
For me, his biggest deficiency at the moment is he gets bumped off a lot in defense. Now, I know he's only young and he's still developing and whatnot, but I feel he's got explosiveness. He can really take advantage of a player with his back turned, but there hasn't been enough so far. He's young, he's a lot to learn, but I haven't seen something for me where like, he
hasn't come on and changed a game. He's made some runs and he can expose tied forwards to a point, but at no stage have I gone Okay, this kid's probably close to even taking over Appy.
Yeah, my biggest concern has been defensively. You're exactly right, Jordan. Not only does he get bumped off, he's been caught out of position a few times during this season, and that's been a concern for me. I think he's going to be a wonderful hooker, very different style to what Appy is, and you are right, Haywood is a lot closer to that same sort of style that Appy has, so I guess it does. Yeah, it kind of depends on what the club's looking for moving forward. Yeah, it's a tough call though.
He was good at it Headson Park. Garrier made a trip to Headson Park on Saturday to watch the reserve grades. It's like, I enjoyed it.
Yeah, you would have fit him very well out I had some park on the weekend.
I watched that game as well.
I watch that game online and he was He had an incredible game, so did Luke Lily. I thought he was very strong playing at fullback as well. So yeah, he was very but telling was very good on the weekend.
Where should we go Now, we're going to preview the game in a minute, but I've got a couple more bical Holtz quick ones Jordan. The club should resign Stafford, tower By.
Or Sell buying that he's starting to get some games together. It's you know, he's obviously had some runs with injury, but Stafford, you know, a lot of Newcastle fans I remember when we picked him up, said that that was that was one that would they would regret. And I'm starting to see it. The guy like he does have moments, but he has that ability, like he can beat a player one on one, and I really think he has that chance to develop into a real solid first grade center.
Yeah.
I think I said on the Pot on Sunday night that at the start of the season I wouldn't have picked him in round one. But he has been incredibly strong this year. He's fanned that left hand fan that he's had, allowing the beats opposite center and then draw the winger in has been fantastic. And I was actually talking to Steve tonight and we're talking about Stafford.
The amount of times I've like the.
Two tries on the weekend are prime examples of it, where he goes through and it looks like it's really terrible defense.
Guys, just for off, he broke fourteen tackles on the weekend.
Yeah, but some of them they just look like guys had no idea defensively. And if you'd done.
That once or twice this year, would have thought either they're just poured offensive efforts. But he's absolutely ripping through tackles like like constantly in games, and even when he doesn't score, he'll break two or three tackle and then get pulled down close to the line. There was another one on the weekend where we almost scored the opening try. I think it was early in the game and he broke a couple of tackles and tried to pass back inside to Taruver and kind of messed up the timing
of it. But he Yeah, I would one hundred percent be resigning next year. I'm very happy to go in to next season with him as one of our centers. I think I think over the next couple of years he can develop into being.
Because like that, I was really shocked. Joel told me on the weekend. He's only twenty four.
So he's coming into that age where he's going to play his best football and over the next couple of years, if he gets an injury free run, he keeps his confidence high.
I think he can be one of the better centers in the game.
It's his running style that There's one thing I've noticed with him, like with the breaking tackles, and it's it's actually something you can't really teach. It's just the people run, but it's the way he comes across where he has his feet planted behind him and he uses that to basically use all that upper body strength and force, so he will literally plant like it's sort of almost like a hunch. But when he's running our players, I notice it, and someone put up a comparison photo to greg Ingliss.
Now I'm not saying he's going to be a greg inglis but it is that same style. Is that where you launch, you have your feet behind you and you have your back arch and you're able to use that full force towards to bump the person off.
Yeah, but it's not even just bumping. And sometimes it looks like guys just clear missing. Well they come in and he's not changing directions, he's just running it. So it maybe he just gets his legs in a position where players misjudge how to tackle him. I don't know what it is, but it seems it's really hard to get a really clean shot on him at the moment. So hopefully it continues because of the Yeah, he's one of the most dangerous players on the field for us.
I also think, sorry Eddie, I also think playing on the same edge that Buller's playing on, I think Bull's starting to attract a lot of attention in attack. I think that's creating a little bit more space for him as well to do his thing. He's getting nice early ball and he's getting one on one with his opposite centa a lot, and I think a lot of that comes down to one him getting the early bore, but defense is keeping.
Their eye on Buller as well.
So yeah, he's getting a lot of one on one situations, which is really good for him.
Last one and we don't have the time to go down the rabbit hole with this one. So I apologize in advance to our listeners because I said I wouldn't mention him again, but I'm going to. So sorry, Jordan, you don't care how lucky Galvin's career goes by or sell.
Bye, I don't. I you know, good luck to him. That's all I say.
Good luck to him. Yeah, I don't care, but I hope it's really badly.
Yeah, exactly exactly. I'll keep my promise. So I had a ran prepared, but I'll save it for another day. We played Petrin on Sunday. Where's the game? Gary? I've forgotten?
Colmback Sunday afternoon, four o'clock.
Four o'clock Sunday afternoon. I believe you guys have an ambush event before did I see something on Facebook about that.
We do have an ambush Evan, I'm really excited about this one.
So starting at three o'clock, well just after three o'clock, the gates open at three o'clock near gate be the bar Members bar that's right next to Gatebe as you come in, take a right turn as you come through the gates and head him on into the ambush. Get in there nice and quickly because we've got for new a Poll as our guest on Sunday afternoon. Very excited, really looking forward to sitting down and having a little bit of a chat with him.
To find out when he's back Gary, because the club doesn't seem to want to tell us that.
Mate.
Every time I do these, because we always get an injured player because they're available to talk to. It's always my first question is give me an update on when you're back. So we'll definitely be asking him that. We're also going to have a little bit of a chat to him about he's had a really unique pathway in
rugby league. Like he's a Victorian junior and and like came through the junior systems at the Storm and is one of the maybe the only Victorian junior in the competition, so I'm really interested to have a chat to him about that. So if you're heading out to the game, get there for gates opening and come on in and pay us a visit at that bar and have a listen to paul A tell us about his.
You might have to have a little word to him before Gary. I think he's a very nervous interview or e because I saw him on Fox once after the game with Malvin Inger and it looked like he'd never been on TV before. He looked really lovable personality, but really nervous.
So I better treat him with kid gloves. Then I'll say the hard questions for someone else.
So Jordan, we played Penrith. I think it's a terrible sort of time to play them, given I would love to play with the first eight weeks when they're in free fall, but they look pretty close to full strength. I don't think they're unbeatable like they were in previous years.
Now there's definitely a chance. I think this game is going to be one on the edges. This is going to be something we need to target the like of Jenkins, which I'm not sure if he's opposite Skelton this week. But there's definitely there's definitely points to be scored on the edges out there. Their forward pack isn't as formidable as it was in previous years. I think they've really underestimated the loss of Fisher Harris. You've still got the
likes of his aoh and Moses Leota and whatnot. But I think if we are going to win those points, the trials are going to be scored in the centers and on the wings. I don't think we're going to go through the middle of them, but there is definitely opportunity to go around them.
Just Keenruth Gary quickly. I'm going to ask you for yes no, because I just went through there seven eight, and I don't want to be disrespectful because they've won four comps in a row and they've lost probably seven eighten great players or good players. But these are guys in their seven A and I want you to tell me if they'd make the Tigers starting thirteen. Some of them might not be answer because you haven't seen enough.
Thomas Jenkins, Yeah, I haven't seen enough, but I'm going to say no.
Isaac Targo, Tongo No, Casey McLain possibly lays to Lungey.
I don't think.
Yeah.
I think he's struggling a little bit, but I think he's got a lot of potential and some good moments.
No, Lindsay Smith, front Rower Scott. That's what I mean. If you take out they're five Origin players who are absolutely elite. Sadly they're all playing though Gary, but I had a look at their roster and even their bench. Again I can't read my own writing, but Luke Somerton, Matt Eisenhooth, the Great Dane Lorry and Luke Pettia never heard of some of that.
Well, it's definitely not the same side they've been fielding for the last five years, and I think how it's really coming out for them is they've been really inconsistent this year. They have played some really strong games, and they tend to be games where those those big five players that they have where Yo and Cleary especially, kind of dragged them through the games. I think Jordan's exactly right that loss of Fisher Harris has really hurt them.
I don't think they're getting the punch up the field that they have in the past, and there was a Matthew Johns was talking about a couple of weeks ago how sideways that Cleary's been playing this year, and a lot of that comes because you're not playing against that retreating defense and you're unable to straighten, so you end up going across the field a little bit. And I think that's been a little bit of an issue for
them this year. And look, I think this weekend a lot of it does come down to what Penriside kind of shows up, because for me, they've been fairly inconsistent and probably more poor than they've been good throughout this season, which is why they are where they are on the table.
So I don't write us off this weekend if.
You change this for us, Jordan, I asked you quickly which one you're most excited about and least excited about. So Gira Skelton's back on the wing, so you only find who to prop Tony Suitgard to starting back row safe after Locke last, who find Charlie Murray and Kit Lily on the bench.
I'm most excited about Geryl Skelton being back. I liked what I saw from him at the start of the year. I hope that he's fit and he's ready to go. Hamstring injuries can always be a fickle thing, so I'm really excited to see Jerrell Skelton. I have no idea about this Charlie Murray guy. When I saw the name on the bench the other week and then I saw him actually in the squad this week, I did a quick look, but I had no clue who he was.
But apparently he's a middle forward with good footwork. But he's a small middle forward, so I don't know what kind of impact he's going to have.
Gary, which one are you least excited about, besides say farf at.
Locke, Yeah, I'm not too happy about that one. I have to Yeah, Charlie Murray, I don't know anything about him, so it'll be interesting to see how he goes. I do want to agree with Jordan on Skelton. I think a lot of our difficulties over the last couple of months has a lot to do with him not being there. That go forward that he provides has made a big difference at the start of the season, so hopefully we get that back. And I'm also really keen to see
how Tony Suker goes starting. I think he's shown some real promise the last couple of weeks. I wasn't too impressed with him earlier in the season, but I think he can potentially be an upgrade on safe far off on that edge, and so I'm really keen to see how he goes.
Last one on the game. Jordan, how many minutes do you think Latu should or will play well both?
Ooh, that's a good question. I won't start, No, no, won't start. I kind of hope it's not a gimmick eight minutes or something at the end of the game. I kind of really hope that's actually, you know, fifteen minutes or fifteen minutes before halftime and then maybe another fifteen minutes spell in the second half somewhere, so that would be ideal. But yeah, I just hope it not some little gimmick eight minute appearance at the end of the game that has no real meaning.
What I'd like to see from him is actually spend some time in that link role that we saw in play.
I think he's last an RL game. I thought that made a big.
Difference to our shape and structure, so I'd like to see if that can continue this weekend. So I'd actually like to see him come on and pretty much play that middle role that lock roll and see how that goes again. I do have to say I'm really looking forward to seeing Kip play as well. I think he'll
provide some impact off the bench. I thought he was very strong in our trials, and I was really disappointed he didn't get a run in the second trial we had to can't remember who was against now, was it Paramatter?
I can't remember.
I was really disappointed he didn't get a run in that game because I thought he deserved more time against enteral players. So I'd be really keen to see how he goes this weekend as well.
Well, let's do the quiz as we're running out of time. Question one, it's a multiple choice which two thousand and six, Big Name Signing uploaded a photo of the new Bulldogs player with the caption, can someone please give this massive dork a haircut? Was it a Jamal A Lessi, B Keith Galloway see Ryan O'Hara or d Sam Harris Jordan.
I'm going to go a big Keithy that was.
Key for sure.
No, it was Ryan O'Hara, and yeah, he probably probably got a bit of blowback for that. Because he didn't exactly excel.
When O'Hara one of the most disappointing forward signings along with Jason Kayla's.
Because he smoked about three packets of cigarettes today. I used to see him out when I was young at those nightclubs, and I used to think, Man, this guy's not not a pro.
Didn't a broken jaw in his career or something.
I think his career was ended by a lack of a lack of a giving of stuff. But anyway, but yeah, I do vaguely remember that big shout out Ryan O'Hara if you're listening. True or false, West Tigers and ped Panthers shared a full time score in which both teams had single digits. True false, It was true nine eight golden point loss for US. It was the start of twenty nineteen. It was when Cleary's scored in the last minute or whatever they kicked from the sideline.
There was a horrible, horrible game of football. Yeah, that's probably I don't remember it.
Nearest to the pin. What jersey number did Paul fadawiaware for his one and only West Tigers game at starting five to eight? Assuming it wasn't number six, What number. Was it Jordan.
Fourteen, I'll just go four.
It was number fifteen, John Morris Ward the six. It was named on the bench. What a shock, Jim Sheen's doing something like that. Charlie Murray, debooting on the Weekend, named the fiftieth one hundredth, one hundred and fiftieth, two hundred, two hundred and fiftieth and three hundredth West Tigers players. No one's got any idea, do they Nope, We'll just give a ten second pause so our listeners out there can think about it, or they can pause the podcast itself.
So I'm going to be fiftieth player with Anthony Lofrankie one hundred and two games, one hundred players, Rocky Tamaki eight games, one hundred and fifty do Solready twenty seven games, two hundred players, Matt mcculick twenty seven games, two hundred and fiftieth was Oliver Gilder eight games Charlie Murray's our three hundred player on the Weekend. Last one is who am I? Born in Sutherland in nineteen eighty three, debuted with the local NRL side in the same year as
Benji So two thousand and three. Sharks I'm thinking they join their local rivals Dragons for two years secured. I don't think this guy ever played for West Tigers, by the way, secured a two year deal West to this weekend's opponents. So Cronullas and George Penrith landed at our joint venture, making zero appearances in centenary season, left mid season to join Cannery and played four games finishing the Super League. Became a male model in Australia and New York.
He was a winger, currently the community engagement and Partnerships manager for the Sydney Marathon. Who gives us stuff about that? But who was it it was? If I was doing it, the model one would have triggered me, because I do remember this dude. He was a fairly fast winger. But Sharks two thousand and three, Dragons two thousand and four to five, Panthers two thousand and six, seven, West Tigers two thousand and eight and eight, Super League twenty nine and twelve. Nick youngquest so.
Tigers, I never actually thought he signed with us.
Yeah, well he signed and never played a game, So maybe I wish a few more players had done that in the past. Gary, But not to be all right, boys, Thank you Jordan in particular for jumping on. Hopefully we can get a win on Sunday. I'm not sure if we'll do a Sunday Night pod because a little tricky with the Monday public holiday and I'm not sure, So if we don't do one Sunday Night Gary, we'll do one Monday. Thanks boys, Thanks guys, Thanks guys. Enjoying the game