1942. Europe. Soldiers find a boy surviving alone in the woods. They make him a member of Hitler's army. He was Jewish. Could a story so unbelievable. be true I'm Dan Goldberg I'm from CBC's Personally Toy Soldier available now wherever you get your podcasts This is a CBC Podcast. The party leaders are making their final push after five weeks of knocking on doors, sparring on debate stages, and tossing out promises of a brighter tomorrow. One of the questions on Monday is...
Imagine what we could do together over the next... the next few years with a strong mandate. Liberal leader Mark Carney is hoping to lock in another term for his party. Meanwhile, Conservative leader Pierre Polyev is in sprint mode. making a last-minute pitch to boomers. We as a government need to ensure that our seniors are rewarded for their hard work, their thrift, and their savings.
And what about Jagmeet Singh? Well, polls suggest the NDP is scrambling to save the deck chairs on what could be a sinking ship. At the end of election night, it'll be British Columbians who decide if Mark Herney gets... a supermajority or if enough new Democrats are there to fight back and defend the things that you care about. But if we've learned anything from this campaign, it's that nothing is guaranteed. Welcome to West of Center. I'm Jim Brown.
sitting in this week for Kathleen Petty. With just days to go before the ballots are counted, we're bringing in three generations of political minds from across the prairie. to hand out their report cards on the campaign. From Saskatoon, Douglas Richardson, a lawyer and former chief of staff, to Liberal opposition leader John Turner.
In Winnipeg, Malcolm Byrd, a political science professor at the University of Winnipeg. And here with me in Calgary, Shannon Greer, a strategist and former staffer in Rachel Notley's NDP government. Hello and welcome to you all. We don't usually point out the age of our panelists on West of Centre, but this time I do think it matters because the generational divide has become such a real election fault line over the past few weeks.
Let's start by going around the table and hearing from each of you about what you've been observing through that lens during the campaign. And Shannon, let's start with you. Well, you know, I think Pierre Polyev has offered a very compelling and easy to understand message to young people. And I put myself in that category. I am a proud millennial.
I still love my skinny jeans, still love my ankle socks. And I grew up in the alleged... trophy generation so i understand why pier poliev's message is really resonating with millennials he's like trophy for everyone no matter what exactly exactly we always got a medal we were always being cheered on And so he's telling millennials that they should be able to buy a house. And the fact that they can't is the liberals fault. And I think that that is a compelling narrative.
And then for Jen said, that's not me, but I do work with many of them. You know, these are folks who have really only known a liberal government. They've never they weren't part of the Stephen Harper. They didn't see any of that. And they also don't know the joys of star 69 or dial up internet. You know, they really grew up in this digital age. And then they missed major milestones because of the pandemic.
like a graduation or university frosh week. And so they've really found community online. And I think the conservatives have. targeted that very effectively. And they've not only found those communities, they've helped build them and they've really helped mobilize them. Well, let's keep climbing through the generations. Malcolm, I don't know how proudly you are putting on a Gen X hat today, but that is you, right?
I suppose so. I'm 1976 and I'm 48 years old and I think Shannon made some very apt points there. I suppose I would pick up this discussion. In terms of sort of we talk a lot about inequalities these days, but one form of inequality we don't talk about is generational inequality. And about people over 65 receive about four times as much.
public money as people under 30. And that's in addition to having the benefit in the case of the baby boomers of owning a home. And I think it really needs to be pressed. to everyone just how valuable home ownership is in Canada. People's homes have increased in value tremendously, particularly in British Columbia and in Ontario. And this is all untaxed.
And so there is, I think, legitimate intergenerational hostility. I'll use that term. And I think we're seeing that break out in terms of partisan. appeal with older Canadians remarkably being attracted to the Liberals and younger Canadians again remarkably turning to the Conservatives. who are dealing with and are addressing some of the material concerns they face. It really is a striking realignment, isn't it?
Yes, it is amazing. I can't believe how many young people I've spoken to who will be voting Conservative. But similarly, people who I thought were staunch Tories are turning to the Liberals. Now, Doug, I don't know if I can resist the temptation, so let me just start by saying, okay, boomer. That's a fact. And in fact, I just became a grandfather for the first time. Oh, congratulations.
And my daughter, who brought the child into this world, has asked me to stop reporting this on different punditry shows that I've been involved in. You're really listening. That's great. But what's just been said by Shannon and Malcolm, I tend to agree with. It's always a mistake to stereotype voting ranges. I know what happened in 2015. Young people came out and voted for.
The Liberal government of the day, the argument is now being put forward that older voters are very concerned about pensions. and their investments and so on are turning to a leader who brings extraordinary experience, background. helped save as part of a team, as part of a team helped save and get us through 2008 and 2009. I acknowledge Mr. Flaherty's role, the Conservative Finance Minister, for sure. And, of course, his role as the Bank of Canada and interest rate adjustment and so on.
But what I think is overlooked by everyone is that under Prime Minister Harper, and unfortunately it didn't get completed, But the single largest, fastest growing aspect of budget spending in Canada on the federal side is the OAS. And we do need reform of that. Why should somebody earning $180,000 a year... get a check from the government of Canada. And I think all three of us would agree that can be put to different uses. And Mr. Carney has specifically spoken to this.
different statements about how he would separate budgeting in this country. I want to talk a bit because we did set this up as a report card. And I want to talk a little bit about how well you think the parties have leveraged. these generational differences over the past few weeks. Shannon?
I mean, obviously, some of the things that some of the parties are saying are resonating with some of the generations. But how much do you think they've actively set out and achieved some kind of generational shift? I think that the liberals and the conservatives have both done this quite effectively. In terms of advertising, again, the conservatives have really gone into those digital communities. And then for the liberals, I think that their traditional advertising game has been very strong.
When you think about the advertisement, Mark Carney and Mike Myers. But let me ask you, Mr. Prime Minister, will there always be a Canada? There will always be a Canada. All right, elbows up. Elbows up. I think that really resonated with people who grew up with Mike Myers, saw him on Wayne's World, and, you know, So He Married an Axe Murder, these kinds of shows. I think it resonated with them.
I did write up legitimate report cards. I know. This is impressive. Malcolm and Doug, you can't see this, but Shannon actually does have individual report cards color-coded with each leader's face on the top and grades. And so one of the criteria I graded on is vibes. And this doesn't seem perhaps like a traditional metric. My sister's a teacher. I don't think she would approve of this.
You know, the vibes are something that I think the younger generation sort of goes on. What vibe do I get from these people? And I think that this is where we're maybe seeing some younger women lose peer polyette. And where we're seeing older people go with Mark Carney. He just gives that good, solid vibe. They feel comfortable with him. And then for Jagmeet Singh, I just say that, you know, he was one of the first to use TikTok and social media.
Little known fact, you're probably wondering why my hair is open. I retie my turban at least once a day just to get it fresh, to get it a little snug. And so let's get ready. And he has a very authentic feel. So let's talk about what I was doing in my 20s and what Pierre probably was doing in his 20s. And I think for vibes, that makes people feel at ease. So Jagmeet's saying what was his vibe grid?
Oh, I gave him an A. I gave him an A on vibes. And Pierre Polyev? I gave him an F. An F. And how about Mark Kearney? I gave him a B+. A B+. All right. Malcolm, what do you think of Shannon's vibe grade? Well, I mean, I think that in terms of Mr. Polyev, I think he's changed his vibe quite effectively recently. from sort of being an angry oppositional member.
When will we put an end to this wacko policy by this wacko prime minister? Quite tenacious to being more stately and, dare I say, gentlemanly, as one of my colleagues used to describe him. during the debate. Mr. Carney, you claim that you want our country to respond with strength, but after the last decade, half of which time you've been Justin Trudeau's economic advisor.
My wife actually commented that she thought he was displaying more sort of leadership character vibe, as it will. But I mean, I think... Part of his appeal to young people is that young people are actually quite angry, and legitimately so. They are being, you know, paying enormous...
rents. They're squeezed out of the housing market. And meanwhile, they're watching baby boomers enjoy great untaxed, unearned wealth in their houses, retiring, going to Mexico, etc., etc. So I think I think sort of some anger might not be... But it certainly is important for the mood of the country because I think there is a lot of legitimate anger there. And if I dare say, you know, I think Mr. Poliev...
overall message about saving Canada is really apt. I think it's important that we recognize that Canada right now is in a really, really bad spot. We have major structural problems. that need addressing over and above Mr. Trump. We have anemic economic Growth, anemic productivity, huge government deficits, massive problems in our cities.
We're talking about manufacturing, which I'm happy about, but do Canadians realize that 25 years ago we made 3 million automobiles and this year we made 1.5 million? So I guess it's nice to talk about calm, cool vibe. But there should be, and there is, a lot of anger in Canada, and rightfully so. I've heard it reported from people who have been following the campaign that over the last three or four days they've sensed a shift.
on Polyev's part back towards that angry messaging. Do you think maybe that's trying to underline the message to young voters? I think so. I mean, we really do need some change here. It is quite remarkable the damage that this liberal Trudeau government did over the last 10 years to our country. So, first of all, I just have to dig up with what Shannon and Malcolm have said. I like Shannon's characterization. I think it's probably fair.
And Malcolm, I'm sorry I take some exception. The country is divided in part because of what Paliyev has done as an opposition leader. You've said a whole bunch of things, Malcolm, that just aren't quite right. The fact of the matter is agricultural returns, revenues for farmers, producers in this country are actually at the same level or slightly higher than under the Harper government.
The fact of the matter is we're moving more oil out of this country, and maybe you don't like that because of environmental concerns, but because of a building of a pipeline, as effective as Mr. Harper was on certain things. He loved the oil and gas industry, but the only government that built a pipeline was a liberal government.
But here's another point. The federal government has dealt with the indigenous issue, worked to settle matters that have been going on in this country for 40 or 50 or 60 years. The net result in my province, settlement, almost $3 billion of settlement funds are flowing into this province to help economic development on those most needing it. And the fact of the matter is in Saskatchewan, Malcolm. that the liberals were in power federally, the GDP of Saskatchewan went up every single year.
So unfortunately, the type of line, Malcolm, that people have been putting forward has helped divide the country. And by the way, our GDP numbers compared to the other... large seven nations that we're compared to all the time, has done very well, frankly. So you need to draw fair comparisons. And finally... Brian Mulroney made the best point of all in my view. I have learned that over the years that history is unconcerned with the trivia and the trash.
of rumors and gossip floating around Parliament Hill. History is only concerned with the big ticket item. He said no issue is more challenging than for any prime minister to face post the Second World War was what Prime Minister Trudeau had to face in COVID. The greatest challenge that any prime minister has happened to deal with. for Canada in 156 years. This is remarkable.
Pierre Polyev fought like heck to get rid of Justin Trudeau, and he succeeded. And Pierre Polyev did everything he could to denigrate the leader of the NDP, and the net result of that is he crushed their support. as those who are on the progressive side have said, Mr. Polly Evans.
Absolutely. Those are some pretty good points. I'll give you credit for the TMX pipeline. It only cost $34 billion. And part of the reason the Liberal government had to build it was, of course, because they failed to support the private sector actors. that were doing it and they've imposed a regulatory regime that will make any project moving forward impossible. But you are correct that the Liberal government made it and Mr. Harper did not.
In terms of Saskatchewan, I'm looking sort of around the entire country in terms of GDP per person, which is declining. And so I think that needs to be considered. Other factors, this is a lot of what the federal government has been worried about over the last 10 years.
have been non-material issues, such as climate change, identity politics, bilingualism, et cetera, et cetera. And they haven't actually done tangible things to support our oil and gas sector. In fact, they've actually done tangible things to attack it.
For example, using the Crown Corp, you know, forbidding the financial crowns from funding oil and gas. Like I said, our manufacturing sector has continued to decline. So I would actually dispute a lot of that, and I actually think the federal government... has been actually doing things to hurt Canada, to say nothing of the fact that
I mean, I'm glad that people are supportive of Canadian nationalism and I see flags out. But for a long time, the Liberal government attacked our country and attacked our history and et cetera, et cetera. So let's try to refocus back on the generational lens and the way we're viewing this campaign. And I want to come back to you, Doug, and just try to get your perspective.
From your generation, the way that the various parties have been leveraging these schisms, these fault lines that we're seeing in this election campaign. The effort has been, I think, to target historic supporters for the Liberal Party. Women have historically been strong supporters. And one of the reasons I think it's been easier in this campaign a bit is Mr. Poliev's numbers with women voters are, as Shannon alluded to, quite frankly.
They've also put forward a candidate who's got a resume that's second to none and gives... I would say somewhat older voters, not young people necessarily, but older voters with a sense of confidence. that there's a leader in place that knows what has to be done, and in that sense has sought the support of a...
generation or two. I'd have to tell you though that I think making general generalizations about generational voting runs a huge risk because For example, where breakthroughs will come in this country in this election, and I would predict that the election will be decided in Western Canada this time for a bit of a first.
what's happening in your home area, Malcolm, for example, what's happening in three ridings in Saskatchewan and what's possibly going to happen in Calgary and Edmonton, and what's clearly happening in B.C. Voters of all ages are going to make a decision on who the next government is, so thus it is important. And those age voters would differ, Manitoba, Alberta, and B.C., in my view. Well, that's interesting. Now, there's another...
electoral fault line that this election is hinging on, Shannon, and that's the fact that basically this liberal victory is hinging on a huge collapse of NDP support. How does that make you feel? Not great, but I think... There's a lot of pressure right now on New Democrat voters, particularly in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, in these places where we're seeing toss-ups where we haven't before. I've grown up in very conservative ridings where my vote...
As much as, of course, I always voted, probably didn't really count. And now I live in Calgary Confederation. My vote counts a lot. And so the first person to knock my door was an incredible NDP candidate in Keira Gunn. And then, you know, a little later, Corey Hogan enters the chat. I worked with Corey Hogan in the Rachel Notley government. He's a very strong candidate. And we are in a true toss-up.
So I think that there are a number of New Democrat voters across the country who are feeling a lot of pressure. In maybe Victoria, where you have Laurel Collins, a very, very strong New Democrat incumbent. She was knocking doors over this past weekend when there was a high percentage of people who had already voted. And what they were telling her is, I'm sorry, I already voted for the Liberals. I wanted to vote for you, but I don't want Pierre Polyev.
And so I think this sort of strategic voting has come into the conversation in a way that we haven't seen it in the past. I think, you know, for millennials, we used to vote with our hearts and now we're sort of voting with our anxiety. It's an interesting set of I guess, facts and situations that have created this almost binary election campaign that we're in right now. Malcolm, do you see the binary nature of it being driven more by what we're hearing from Trump?
Or is it more of a reaction to Polyev or a combination of both? What do you think? Well I think the NDP has completely abandoned working people. and the material concerns that drive them. It is a party that has really embraced non-material issues such as climate change and identity politics. And I just don't think that this appeals to working folk. You know, one of the things that the Conservatives have done, quite remarkably, is to appeal to working people, including unionized workers.
by talking about, like I said, material issues in terms of cost of living, housing, et cetera, et cetera. And so the NDP has really, in my view, abandoned its base and is paying a dear price for it. So you think that's mainly what's driving it, a reaction to what we've been seeing from Jagmeet Singh's NDP over the last several years? That's correct. This is a government that was ardently opposed to the TMX pipeline.
Well, the reality is that the people in Alberta, the hardworking men and women who earn a living in the oil and gas sector, have gone through busts and booms. And it would be irresponsible of a government not to realize the volatility of this sector, the volatility of those jobs, and not make investments today to ensure that they have a bright future. Because we don't know if that future will continue in this sector.
Remember that the NDP used to be ardent nationalists. They advocated strongly for Canadian control over resources. And he... He was opposed to it. And what do you think, Doug? How do you think we've found ourselves in this situation where we're looking at essentially a two-party rape? I personally don't accept the argument that the NDP have abandoned their labor base. They fought like hell in this election. And their results may be a little different. We went through this in 1993.
That was an election where the liberal leader was considered center-left. I'm talking about Mr. Chrétien. And where the conservatives had been in power for a period of time. In Saskatchewan, what did that mean? That meant that the Liberals won five seats, and that happened because NDP voters were gracious enough to grant their support. In the province of Saskatchewan, in the last provincial election, the flip occurred.
Liberal voters supported in the cities the NDP candidates to give the premier of this province a much-needed scare and wake him up to the realities of what this province is, how much bigger it can be. So, yes, there has been a battle over labor vote, but one of the things that I think has been important is Mr. Carney is perceived as bringing a balance to issues that are going to protect jobs.
and has guaranteed or made an undertaking of guaranteeing that any tariff revenue would be put towards workers. To say that any candidate has a license on the workers of this country is, I think, running a high risk of embarrassing yourself. I don't think it's fair to say the NDP have failed workers in this country and certainly not in my province. So what do you attribute the collapse of their support to? Well, it's, I think, 100% worry about what's happening in Washington.
The other day there was a comment made that the President of the United States changes his view every second or third day, I guess all of us. But it has impacted this nation in a way we had not expected. It's woken us up. And along comes an individual, a leader with skills. that can protect the country. I think that's been the dividing line on this, to be fair.
Malcolm, I want to bring into this conversation an idea that I know you've been following for years, the idea of the big shift, which has been popularized by John Ibbotson and Daryl Bricker. And this is the idea that the future belongs to conservatives. particularly among Western Canadians and new Canadians and younger voters. But here we are, we're seeing...
Excellent conservative numbers. I mean, historic highs for the conservative party in terms of popularity and yet possibly no path to victory in this election. What is going on here? Why isn't the big shift doing its... what you and others have expected it to do. Well, that's a very good question. of the big shift is that The argument is that Mr. Harper combined rural, western and suburban voters into a block.
that beat the so-called Laurentian elites, so the Laurentian elites in the Liberal Party along the corridor in Toronto, Montreal, and Ottawa. And I suppose the big factor, the big issue in the big shift was the importance of the suburbs. And that's of course where this election is going to be won and lost.
And so who is going to win the suburbs? And, of course, the suburbs have a lot of so-called soccer moms as well as lots of new Canadians. And that's going to be the key battleground. And so far, it's a real toss-up between... the Liberals and the Conservatives as to who is going to win that critical part of the country.
Other issues are that, you know, what are young people going to vote for? Who are they going to vote for? And of course, as we know, they can be quite fickle and can swing either way. So whether or not the big shift is occurring, well, I don't know. I did hear from Mr. Ibbotson at one point. And when I asked him about after the liberal victory in 2015, he said, well, it's like Star Wars. It's Star Wars.
You know, the Empire Strikes Back, the Laurentians, and then Return to the Jedi. So maybe we're waiting for the big shift to come to fruition. I'm not going to try to puzzle out who the good guys and who the bad guys are in that Star Wars.
But, Shannon, the reason I was asking about this is because there's the sense, and we've heard it expressed a couple of times in this campaign, I guess most notably by Premier Daniel Smith and Preston Manning, that if we don't see some kind of shift, if the group that Malcolm describes as the Laurentian elite is seen to be coming out ahead once again, then we're going to...
get concerns expressed about national unity, particularly from this part of the country. How concerned are you about that as a possible reaction to a liberal victory? I think this has been something that's been a topic for a very long time, so I'm not surprised that it's come back up this time. I think so far, Premier Smith has really handled this skillfully.
she's able to sort of leverage it to her advantage. When Trudeau stepped down, I thought she was losing her most compelling political foil, and she would really have to sort of retune her narrative. And now it appears maybe not so much. So she's already promised to strike this post-federal election panel to give Albertans the chance to raise.
issues that they might want to put to a referendum. Of course, this was in response to a question about Western separatism. I want to be able to give whoever becomes a prime minister very... clear identification of our pressure points and see within six months if they're able to address all of those. And if they don't, then we're going to have to do what my predecessor did.
the last time around when similar frustrations were faced for similar reasons. We'll do a broad fair deal panel review. We'll go and talk to Albertans and see what they would like us to do. And so I do think that it's a bit of an interesting conversation. What I will say is that one of the silver linings I saw in this threat from America was the chance for Canada to really come together, to work better as a country, to take down some of those barriers.
And when you have a province that's sort of saying, well, if we don't get our own way, we're going to take our toys and go home, it doesn't really contribute to that conversation. So I'm curious to see what she hears on that listening tour she's planning to go on. And to see where Albertans are at in terms of this conversation, it's been going on for a very long time. No, it's been suggested. Even by a recently former member of her own party, the UCP, that perhaps when...
Premier Smith was taking her shots at Mark Carney. She wasn't doing Pierre Pauly of any favors, and that might work out to her advantage to keep a liberal punching bag in place in Ottawa. Well, I was actually going to say, with friends like Canada's Conservative premiers, who needs enemies? Good grief. Pierre Polyev has really gotten no help at all from his Conservative counterparts.
You have Doug Ford and maybe now Tim Houston. We were the first province in Canada, the first port of call for generations of new Canadians, and we will never be the 51st of anything. My name is Tim and I am Nova Scotia. essentially eyeing his job while he's still very much doing it. And then there's Daniel Smith, whose comments really put him off message for days.
Pierre Polyev has some frenemies in his own movement. I don't want to get too deeply into the Tim Houston video, but the timing was certainly cold. Let's say. Doug, your thoughts on where we are at the end of this, if the Liberals win again, and taking into account all those expressions of concern about national unity.
Well, first of all, I regret that Mr. Manning, who I would have thought was deemed to be a progressive individual on certain fronts, for example, historically he was a supporter of carbon pricing in this country. I wish he hadn't said what he said. I commend Mr. Paliyev for having the temerity to stand up and say no, as Mr. Carney did and as Mr. Singh did too. Here's a positive, though, that we might consider.
It's looking like the Liberals. And I'm not downgrading the strength of the Conservatives in Western Canada. And I acknowledge the base that the NDP have in B.C. and have historically had in Saskatchewan. But here's a possibility that could be good news for the nation. It is hopeful, and the way the leaders are addressing tours over the last few days and going forward, the fact that Mr. Paliap came to Saskatoon last night.
But it's possible the Liberals could win four or five and maybe even one more seat in Manitoba. There's a little light, a little light here in Saskatchewan for one, two, or maybe three seats, and certainly Calgary and Edmonton look like possibility. You all know about the work that's been, the race that's going on on Vancouver Island and downtown metro Vancouver.
So if the Liberals happen to win, hopefully win a few seats, that would create a balance that's badly needed in this country and would show... coupled with, if Mr. Carney were fortunate enough to win, somebody was born and raised in the West. It would be a sea change. You talked about a shift a moment ago, Jim. This would be a monumental shift that you would have to go back to the 60s to see.
where the government of Canada, if it was a liberal government, again, let's not get ahead of ourselves because there's still quite a race going on here, but if a liberal government were successful, they would actually have representation from coast to coast. Malcolm, what are your thoughts on that? We might also be looking at a possible geographic realignment.
Oh, well, I've actually read Mark Carney's book Values. It's astonishing. It is a complete and total attack on the oil and gas sector. His goal is to essentially eliminate it. Remember this Liberal government for five years had no cabinet representative. from Alberta or Saskatchewan. So I, you know, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Doug, you're, you know, we're going to get some liberal representation on the prairies and hopefully it'll be in cabinet.
The loss of Mr. Carr was a big loss for the West, in my view. So I don't see this ending well. Like I said, Mr. Carney in his book, Values, openly is against the oil and gas sector. And, of course, this is our number one and number two export. And it's unclear how his goal for an intangible economy will replace the wealth and jobs that the oil and gas sector produce. Shannon, I'm not sure if you've got a Donald Trump
section on those report cards, but I do want to spend the next couple of minutes talking about the American president. Do you give out grades on Donald Trump on those report cards? Because I'd like to know who you think got it right, which parties are handling it well, which parties have dropped the ball. I gave out pre-writ conditioning. So framing this question, you know, we've seen, of course, Corey Tanaik has been very critical of the conservative.
campaign around this pivot point. And so, you know, for the pre-right conditioning, which was really about this ballot box question, you know, I had to give Mark Carney an A+. He really framed the question. He made himself the leader to handle this. And, you know, I think that Pierre Polyev stayed on a message that actually is impactful to a number of people, which is affordability, cost of living.
A number of things. But in terms of this pre-ric conditioning, that ballot box question, A plus to Mark Carney. You know, I also had to give an F to Jagmeet Singh, who, of course, could have brought down the government, didn't. kind of let this pre-right conditioning get to a point where it did, where he also wasn't really in that conversation. What I will say about that is that he also stuck to his message. Basically, both the Conservatives and the NDP stuck.
to what they felt they were strongest on for Jagmeet if it was healthcare. It was talking about pharma care, dental care, the things that you get when you vote in New Democrats. And for Pierre Poliovi, really stuck with affordability. I think it was part of that pre-ric conditioning. And as we get closer to election day, I think the liberals are really reinforcing that ballot box question around Trump. Yeah, I heard the F for Singh and the A-plus for Carney, but I missed the Polly F grade.
Well, I gave him a C- because he had the best. campaign for the longest time. I actually taught a bit of a course for the United Way to nonprofits on how to communicate. And we use Polyev as an example because he had such a clear message. It was so easy to understand. And it was so saturating. Stop the crime. You heard it everywhere. Even I can repeat it. Boots not sued.
Axe attacks. It was really memorable. And so I can't really throw that all away because on the pre-right conditioning, that stuck in people's minds. And I think when they go to the ballot box, It's who framed it better in these final days. Are we voting on Trump or are we voting on some of these pre-writ issues? All right. So, Doug, post-writ, who did well on Trump? Who dropped the ball on Trump? I think you'll sound like I'm obfuscating. I think all three leaders.
have handled it very well. They've understood that this is a nation-building election race. One candidate was slower to come to it, but I think all three, if I was being fair, I think that all three leaders have come to the realization that the country's future is in jeopardy and whether or not we're taking care of, we're worrying about. Something very interesting, in my view, came out after the debate.
I alluded to the fact that I became a grandfather for the first time. And what woke me up after the French debate was a woman speaking in halting French when she said... This is a Quebec woman. The last thing I want is my grandchildren growing up as American citizens. And I think that's what's gripped the campaign from start to finish. And I think all three leaders have done a good job.
Malcolm, it's interesting because we just were hearing more news this week. There was some reporting from Radio Canada about Donald Trump talking about the 51st. state in his call with Mark Carney, which wasn't reported at the time. Now, I'm not sure this is exactly how the liberals would like this issue brought back into the limelight. But bringing this issue back in the closing days of the campaign. I can only imagine doesn't hurt the liberals.
Well, I mean, I'll just say I, even before this campaign, I am amazed at Canadians' obsession with the United States. I can't get over how... When the Americans were having their election, it was painful for me to watch CBC and the unbelievable amount of coverage given to a foreign country's election. And again, when I read the newspapers and I talk to people, I am just astonished at this level of fascination and, like I said, obsession with the United States.
So part of me is happy that Mr. Trump has made these kind of ridiculous claims about the 51st state. But part of me, why I'm happy is that it's actually brought about some Canadian nationalism which was ardently attacked and denigrated for the last 10 years. And so I'm... Anyways, as I watch English Canadian nationalism evaporate before my eyes, over and above the short-term stuff,
I find it difficult. That's interesting because I think a lot of people would describe it as the opposite of nationalism evaporating. Well, like I said, when I listen to my children who now have no idea, all they watch is American podcasts, American stuff, even their language and discourse is becoming Americanized. Very few other countries are obsessed. another nation as Canada is with the United States. recently, that's why I'm happy about this sort of resurgence.
But up until very recently, flying a Canadian flag had all sorts of negative connotations, particularly in the neighbourhood I live in. I will point out, I've been listening Fairly closely, and I don't believe anyone has said Gen Z. on this edition of West of Center. So that's something positive anyway. Let's wrap this up with a Prairie's perspective on what we're expecting to see on Monday. Shannon, let me start with you. In Alberta...
What kind of a surge, if any, for progressive parties are you expecting Monday? I'm really not sure. I am watching with bated breath. I think we've seen it's been exciting to see so many signs. Of course, in my neighborhood, Corey Hogan had the signs.
confederation is worth fighting for and i've seen which is a play on the writing name exactly yes which i love a double entendre but what's interesting about it is that i've seen those signs outside of my writing and i think that nationalism has really bubbled up so I'm watching to see what happens. I'm very, very curious. As I said, I think
You know, there's a bigger responsibility this election for millennials to come out and vote, to really think about their vote, for Gen Z to come out and vote and really think about their vote. So I'm watching to see what happens. So what do you think, Doug? Depending on what happens Monday, could Saskatchewan turn into the real conservative heartland in this country? Oh, boy.
I genuinely hope not. At the heart, I think we are a more progressive province than we get credit, but certainly I know what the painted picture is. Malcolm, it's looking, according to the polls anyway, that Manitoba is in toss-up territory. How much of a bellwether do you think your province is going to turn out to be? So I think we're a bellwether province here. I think the three ridings that I'm going to be watching are the NDP-held ridings, one in the north, one in the urban core.
and those are going to be fought over with the Liberals. They're in danger of losing them, the NDP. And then there's another riding, Elmwood Transcona, where they're fighting with the Tories, and they're also in danger there. And so this is going to be very important for the NDP. They need these three seats. All right. Thank you, all three of you, for joining us today. I've enjoyed our conversation.
Thanks so much. Thanks for having us. Malcolm Bird teaches political science at the University of Winnipeg. Douglas Richardson is a lawyer based in Saskatoon and the former chief of staff to John Turner when he was opposition leader. And here in Calgary, Shannon Greer is a former provincial NDP government staffer. You have been listening to West of Center. Now make sure you join us again on election night for West of Center After Dark. It will drop around midnight.
with Rob Brown at the mic. If you would like to get in touch, you can send us an email. The address is westofcenter at cbc.ca. Our producer is Felice Chin. I'm Jim Brown. Thanks for listening. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca.