1942. Europe. Soldiers find a boy surviving alone in the woods. They make him a member of Hitler's army. but what no one would know for decades. He was Jewish. Could a story so unbelievable. be true I'm Dan Goldberg I'm from CBC's Personally Toy Soldier available now wherever you get your podcasts This is a CBC Podcast. is coming down the political circus that was the federal election campaign is now over welcome to west of center after dark i'm rob brown we're recording this special episode
at just after 11 p.m. Mountain Time on election night. So there are still some writings in B.C. and in Alberta that are too close to call as we record this. So keep that in mind. But the top line results. are clear. Canada will continue to have a liberal government for a fourth Looks like the party has been held to a minority in the House of Commons.
So how did we get here and where are we going? We're about to bring you the hottest of hot takes, some of it fueled by election night newsroom pizza, the best. Past their bedtime, three Calgary political strategists. Cheryl Oates is with the NDP. Sarah Biggs is a conservative. And the liberal on the panel is Sabrina Grover. And Sabrina is joining us from BC, where she's been working to bring down...
Jagmeet Singh in Burnaby Central. So mission accomplished on that front, Sabrina. And I guess I should congratulate you on this Liberal win. It was an interesting writing to be in. And I think it was interesting to see right. from day one, how far back that NDP vote really was, and how quickly and how early it collapsed and how that collapse sustained throughout the election. Okay, we'll talk about the NDP, but really the headline here.
has to be this liberal win. Be honest with me, Sabrina. If someone had told you four months ago that the liberals would win a fourth term, how would you have reacted? I would have said, I don't think that that's possible. It seems like it might be a fantasy. And I think that that is, you know, what. would have been the general reaction or the general feeling around that that liberal table of that liberal
But the momentum that came from the leadership was unmatched and much of that momentum sustained through the election. But I think what really changed it was the Donald Trump question. No doubt. Sarah, given that the Conservatives were up by as much as 27 points in some polls in recent months, what's your reaction to this result? You know, if you would have asked me in October or even January.
If the Conservatives would have won today, it would be like 100%. It's going to be a crushing majority, 225 seats, but we are witnessing a crushing defeat today. and somewhat of a collapse of the Conservative Party, even if we've increased our vote share, even if it's the biggest vote share since 1987. Gut-wrenching loss tonight. Yeah, I haven't fact-checked that, but Jason Kenney was asserting that the biggest win since 87.
You check. Good, good. I'm glad somebody did. But yeah, I mean, a bigger share of the vote than Stephen Harper had when he won his majority in 2015, and yet you're calling it a crushing defeat. Okay, we'll get into that too. Cheryl, I want to move on to you. First, this liberal comeback. And you were at Rachel Notley's side when she made history, pulled off what had been the unthinkable in Alberta, the NDP winning government. So give us some perspective. How big of a deal is this?
Well, I don't know if the context of the two upsets are really similar. I mean, the infrastructure was there for the Liberals to be successful. And it turns out all we needed was a complete change of the ballot question and a new leader. for the liberals to be in play again. So I do imagine that they came into a government that had expected to, was there to support their transition of power and had the infrastructure in place to actually
form government. Whereas, you know, 2015, we were a little surprised partway through. Not to say that we didn't, you know, rise to the occasion. But yeah, I mean, sometimes... There's a lot of groundwork that is laid before a campaign. And sometimes you just hit the moment right during a campaign where you're able to capitalize on it. you're able to able able to leverage the mood of the moment and not try to change the public's agenda
And really just like sort of ride that wave, for lack of a less cliche term, to victory. And I think that's what the Liberals did here. Let me stay with you because we should touch on the NDP. Pretty dismal results. right? You're a party down to Single-digit seat counts, again, as we record this, failing to make the threshold for official party status. Your reaction to that? Obviously, it's really disappointing to see the NDP where they are as we record this podcast.
But I remain hopeful, one, that the NDP will still play a consequential role. I mean, if we see if the Liberals end up in a minority situation, the NDP is going to play a role in terms of the balance of power. the liberals end up in a majority situation. The party's got to do some soul searching. I mean, either way, the party has to do some soul searching. And I'm optimistic about that project because Democrats are really, really stubborn. And despite what is a really terrible loss.
New Democrats are all going to flock to the party to help rebuild it. And I do believe that through this reset, the party will come back stronger and more representative of the membership than it's ever been. Okay. Sabrina, I mean, as we record again, we'll keep repeating this. The liberals are going on to form a minority government. Mark Carney couldn't get it across the line. What should we make of that?
I think that I would suggest that despite, you know, Sarah saying that this is a crushing defeat, I do think in many ways it is a crushing defeat, especially if Pierre loses that seat. But I think that we should point out he is trailing as we record this in his own seat of Carleton. Go ahead. I think that the long.
term ground game and air war that the conservatives poured money and poured their resources into over almost And so they were able to grow that base beyond what I think is traditionally kind of a 30% ceiling for the Conservatives into a fairly large number of people. who, beyond thinking about Donald Trump and the ballot question of the United States, were also thinking about affordability and some of the things that the Conservative campaign raised.
And so there's a lot of, you know, the people who went liberal and collapsed that NDP vote were thinking pretty much only, I'd say, about the Donald Trump question. And the conservative voters, I think, had maybe both of those in mind. And I think that's what you're seeing. as that result that, you know. Plus nine seats in Ontario is nothing to shy away from. And additionally, we're looking at, I think, maybe...
up five seats in BC. So some really interesting strategic regional wins for the Conservatives that came as a result of their long resource-filled message, their ads that... really hammer down on the Liberal message over the post-12-month period. Sarah, what do you make of that theory as to why Carney couldn't secure a majority? Oh, what's fascinating right now is that we're facing a 200,000 vote difference between the Liberal and the Conservative. I think that what we are seeing is...
Kind of a trial, if we want. We don't know Carney. Carney's not well-known politically. We know he's a really well-known and respected economist, former governor of Bank of Canada and England. But I do believe that they want to give him a mandate, but with a little bit of a safety net in the background.
And yes, to Sabrina's point, you know, the Conservatives did gain some ground in Ontario. They did gain some ground in BC. But what we have seen is that sometimes they were talking, let's say, about housing. Carney was maybe a little bit more detailed into his offering about the spending. He was showing a little bit more of a balance sheet sometimes than the Conservatives were doing. And also what hurt the conservative long run is that they've blown a pretty big advance.
very big lead, but they did not manage to pivot on messaging. And the reason why they managed to increase their vote share is whom they have been... flirting with, if we want to say, for the past three or four years. Who are you getting at there? They brought a new base. So whatever they lost to the liberal, there was a new base that was not necessarily involved or voting before that got interested also the younger population.
It didn't make a difference into his vote share. So the boomers went a little bit more to liberals. The younger population went to Poitiers, but for extremely different reasons. And I'm going to say it, and everybody's going to hate it, but the convoy.
Ontario never forgot about the convoys, especially the Ottawa region. They never forgot about what happened during those times and during the occupation, whatever you want to call it. So for a lot of reasons, you know... kind of flip-flopping conservative voter. And Poitier did not manage to make the case of a small-c conservative kind of mindset. Okay.
Was this thing baked, Cheryl, from the outset? We always say campaigns matter, right? And you've managed campaigns. Most recently, the NDP campaign in Saskatchewan last fall. But it seemed to me like once Carney won the leadership, that vote sort of coalesced around him as the guy who could take on Trump. And I don't know if the campaign mattered. What do you think?
I think campaigns always matter. I don't necessarily think that they on their own can change the outcome of an election, but I do think... like pieces along the way of a campaign and how leaders react and how leaders position themselves are still consequential. Like when we talk about Pierre Polyev, I think, you know, we've talked about a couple of reasons that he wasn't successful here. Part of the problem is that he really struggled to pivot from being a really impressive opposition leader.
to being someone people could picture as prime minister. And that really can only happen when the writ drops. Like, it's really hard to be the opposition leader and also be the prime minister at the same time. So that was his chance. Once the writ dropped, he had to come out and show Canadians not only could he be prime ministerial, but he could also be the guy that takes on Donald Trump.
And I don't believe he had to pivot off of his affordability message to do that. Like if you look at the polls today, affordability is number one. So those who said he should have pivoted to Trump. Like this was their winning message. This is where their base and their coalition was sitting.
I just think he failed to meet the moment in terms of the campaign and position himself as the leader that he had to be for Canadians. So just so I'm clear, you're saying stick with the affordability message because it's working. But if his rhetoric had been more pointed around Trump, you think he could have. siphoned off some of those votes that went, you know, boomer votes that went to the liberals.
I don't think it's more pointed rhetoric. I think Polyev actually has quite pointed rhetoric. It's just less like it's fun to be opposition. It's like you can be snarky and you can be the attack dog. Like if you're going to take on the president of the United States, you need to be able to like enter the room with gravitas and talk about moving the country forward the way that a prime minister does. And that's not by taking pot shots at the other guys.
So I just don't think Poliev managed to sort of capture that energy through this campaign. And partly because he's such a good opposition leader. Like it was just hard to move off of that personality. He didn't do it in time. I think there's a couple of things that I'd say. So number one, I think that the, you know, when I refer to that advertising piece that the Conservatives did for so long, a lot of that was aimed at the NDP. So in many ways, them... aiming at the NDP for so long.
kind of contributed to that NDP collapse, which led to a lot of that surge in Liberal support. I think it's surprising to see so many of those NDP voters traditionally very far on that left flank of even the Liberal side, like very far left. come over to what is more of a centrist leader in Carney. So, and I think the fear, you know, on the ground here in Burnaby, the fear that NDP voters, longtime voters, people voted NDP for 40 years.
felt about Pierre Polyev and the resemblance that he bore to Donald Trump was driving them in droves to Liberals. And I think that that is the important thing to remember. And then the other thing I'd say is when you look at kind of the internal conservative politics, which I've just kind of watched unfold as a casual observer, but, you know, this dynamic between Pierre Polyev and Doug Ford, between Pierre Polyev and Jenny Byrne and...
Tim Houston, and they were hurting themselves by killing their own... parts of the party and you know in those in these areas where you could have used a Doug Ford endorsement or a Tim Houston endorsement or their volunteers to come out and help you and instead you chose to kind of
lambast them for months or for years, it just doesn't make any sense. And I think that thinking that you're going to win on your own is like not the right idea. You need to win as a team and they didn't, they didn't bring that team sport. But if I can add, I've been talking to a lot of people like the old guard in the Conservative Party, and a lot of people were told to stay home. A lot of people, Pierre made a case that he was able to defeat.
A lot of phone calls today were happening, trying to put the blame on someone. It's Jenny's fault. It's Pierre's fault. But at the end of the day, Pierre is going to have to assume. that defeat today because he is the leader of the party. Yeah, to be clear, you're saying organizers were told to stay at home, not voters. No, no, no, not voters. Some organizers were not called in. Organizers for 25 years that were extremely loyal to Stephen Harper.
We're not contacted. Or maybe they were just said, you know what? We don't need you. We got this. But like Jason Kenney said earlier tonight, Poliev needs to learn how to make friends. He has been such a good bulldog and playing the petulant child in politics that he created so many enemies. And he managed to push away so many people, which...
Tonight, we see the results and then play in his favor. Okay, well, let's go there then since we're on the topic. So this is the guy that, again, as we record, may lose his own seat. lost 20-plus, anywhere from 20 points to 27 points, leads to the Liberals. And it looks like he's determined to stay on. He made that point in the speech that he gave, his concession speech. What do you think is going to happen to Pierre Polio?
It's going to be extremely interesting to see what's going to happen. And we've seen Mr. Giovanni tonight just using a flame torch. towards Doug Ford. It's going to be interesting to see how in caucus in the background, how the two factions, which is the more far right faction like. Mr. Giovanni. Jameel Giovanni. So we should just be clear for those who don't follow Ontario politics. This is a former PCMPP under Ford. Quit.
And he ran as a federal conservative. He won his seat. And on CBC News Network tonight, he just lit for it up. Absolutely like on fire, burned down to the ashes. So it's going to be interesting to see who will stand behind who because the knives are already flying. We are seeing Houston. We are seeing Ford. We are seeing Mr. Kenney that is starting to make his case. Jason Kenney's back for a reason. He's not back just for fun and for the paycheck.
He is starting to see what can be done behind the scenes. You think that Jason Kinney is positioning himself? There's a strong possibility that Jason's going to be trying to position himself to make a comeback in politics. As a leader? As a leader. I could see him trying to run. for the leadership, for the CPC. But again, we'll see if there's a split or no split because the two factions will not be getting along in the next few days. It's going to be extremely painful.
During caucus meetings, if the leader lose its seat and if they lost because of incendiary. statements, not knowing your clientele at some point, not reading the room properly, that is going to be costing a lot of points to Pierre Polyev. And I could see some senior members pushing for his exit. Do you want him out? Personally? Yes. Yes. Why? It's not the conservative party that I politically grew up in. We're talking about two very different parties.
The party that the conservative is today would have never stood. for the convoy or, you know, we were the party of law and order, even if we had, you know, some of these an accident sometimes with some elected officials, but it is not the party that I grew up in. And it's not the party that was whipped so well by Stephen Harper that was able to... control, even if he was reformed, he was really good at controlling the reform faction and keep his caucus on message. and disciplined all the time.
Cheryl, any thoughts on whether or not you think Polyev can hold on to his leadership? Well, I mean, that was really interesting to listen to because I've heard from people who have sort of been on the other side of it saying he has ran such a purist conservative campaign that he'll stay on despite the fact that he's lost. I do think, though, it is much harder to stay in the role that he's in now that he, I mean, if he does in the end lose his seat. He has been such a force.
in the House of Commons holding Trudeau to account and really leveraging those clips on social media to make his online community happy. If he's not in the House of Commons, where is he finding that platform? So that's one thing. And then like watching that teardown from the Ontario MP, newly elected Ontario MP, you only do that. You only do that kind of teardown on election night if you are gunning for the leadership job.
So that just tells you like, you know, we have Jason Kenney now running. We have two people in the race already. This just shows you all the fractures that already exist in the conservative party. I just don't know how after losing an election where you were. you know, double digits ahead, 30 points ahead that you survive that kind of fracture. Can I play devil's advocate? And Sabrina, I'll have you respond. And Sarah and I were already talking about this off mic. I mean, Paulie Evigan.
In, what, 35 years? He's better than 2015 when Harper got a majority. He did keep the liberals to a minority here. He did it on his purest values. And guess what? Mark Carney is going to face a lot of difficulty in the months ahead. We all know he said himself that the economy is going to be under a lot of strain given what's happening south of the line right now.
Couldn't he make the case to his caucus successfully with or without that seat, Sabrina, that I'm your best chance to form government in a matter of what could be months? Listen, if I know one thing to be true, as the sky is blue, conservatives love to eat their own. So I do not see him making a case.
that effectively keeps him in power. And I think his tie to Jenny really solidifies that. I think that them as a pair, I think that's not palatable. I also think that... to be taking on Mark Carney. I think that he continues to demonstrate these Donald Trump. likenesses, in his mannerisms, in the way that he speaks and the things that he attacks. And that's, one, not what Canadians are looking for, as demonstrated by today's results.
And two, I don't think that it's going to effectively take down what looks like a very serious, stable prime minister. And, you know, if I look at the vote count right now, I think it'll be interesting to see. how the Liberal minority is governed. Because you've got, you know, between the Liberals seat count right now or where they're leading and the NDP, you've got...
And so I think that's going to be a really interesting question. Also for the NDP, what are their next steps? How do you come back from where you're at? No official party status at this point unless, you know, specially granted. Where does that party go? Let's put a pin in that for a second because I do want to talk about Parliament. And Sarah, as it stands right now, you've got the bloc holding the balance of power. Yes. How is that going to work? It's not going to work.
It might. Look, we're probably going to have a two years of peace period because the bloc lost a lot of seats tonight. A lot of damage was done. I was talking to a lot of individuals in Quebec. They were switching their... traditional bloc vote for a liberal vote because they were worried about Donald Trump. They were worried about a lot of points. But Donald Trump, I think... is what shifted the vote the most from the Bloc to the Liberals in Quebec this election.
What we are going to see is that there's going to be a little bit of soul searching. Blanchet is still going to be popular. It's not really Blanchet's fault that they got the results that they got tonight. It's the politics of today. It's current affairs. It's what's going on. Sure, but I'm wondering about parliament. How are the liberals going to get their legislation across that majority threshold count? Yeah, well, they're going to have the Greens. Well, last time I looked, the Greens.
One seat last time. One seat. And then you're going to have the NDP with eight seats, which would make... I didn't look at the count since we started recording. They're going to change. They're going to change. But they would not technically need the block if the numbers didn't change. with the grains and the NDP. Okay, I got my producer Felice Chin is nodding her head, assuming that stays then. Assuming that stays that way, they would not need the block. Okay.
But at the end of the day, do the block really want to stir the pot when they need even more money in health transfers right now? They wouldn't want to go back to the electorate you're saying? They could lose more seats? No, and the fundraising capacity is... Bleak. Bleak. Cheryl, the NDP, Sabrina raised it. Singh is gone. He stepped down. You're down to single digits, your party. What does the future of that party look like federally?
Well, there's sort of two channels here. Like one is if we are sitting in a situation where the numbers continue to look how they look as we're taping this, which is when you add the liberal seats with the NDP seats, you reach a majority. The NDP, once again, is going to be really consequential in this parliament.
And we learned some hard lessons about that conservative and supply agreement and what it means to the party's relevance and the party's ability to get credit for the things that it's pushed for. And I think if we're in a position again. to hold the balance of power, that's going to look a lot different.
And then the other thing is, obviously, this is a season of renewal for the party. The party's not going anywhere. There are too many people who are dedicated to the organization to let the organization die. There's going to be a new leader. Yeah, who might that be? I don't know. I think there is, we have an NDP government in BC, an NDP government in Manitoba, two strong NDP oppositions in Alberta and Saskatchewan. so many members across those four provinces.
I think the next leader of the NDP will likely be someone who represents that sort of like pragmatism that we see from Western sections. and also connects with Ontario Democrats. You've got a pretty resilient MP in Edmonton, Strathcona, who was reelected again tonight, and Heather McPherson. I don't know about her French. Do you know about her French? I think she does speak French. Oh, okay. So she wanted to watch?
Yeah, certainly she's one to watch. I imagine there will be a robust leadership contest, and I will not be surprised at all if Heather McPherson enters that race. She is bilingual, can't confirm. Sabrina, let's stay in Alberta for a second here because the Liberals, they were hoping for major gains in this province. Looks like there won't be a seat increase for the party here. What should we make of that?
Yeah, I think, again, really interesting to see. I was looking at Calgary results as well, just to look at what's happened. some big, big losses, I think, for people that would have been expected to win. And I wonder if that kind of emotional surge in the last couple of weeks you know, inspired some folks who Calgary and Alberta has a dyed in the wool conservative.
And I think, you know, were people mad to see these trending results across the country of how Mark Carney was doing and how liberals were doing across the country? you know, did that mobilize people who maybe would have considered voting liberal to say, no, I think I'm going to stick with the conservative.
I think that that's maybe what happened. I don't know that the affordability message landed differently in Alberta than it did anywhere else. And I don't know that in a lot of the ridings where the... the seats were lost or flipped. that the oil and gas message was any more important in this election than it ever has been in any other election. Like, I'm not sure that that's necessarily what led to it. But I think it may just have been kind of an emotional attachment to the Conservatives.
that drew people to the polls in a way that we didn't expect. But big wins in the Calgary Confederation. If that holds. Yeah. Corey Hogan. Looks pretty solid at this hour. George Chahal going down in McKnight. So that's notable as well. The theory that conservatives are going to win Alberta, that's not a new one, Sarah. No, it's not. But the fact that the Liberal vote largely collapsed, I mean, I was talking to some organizers who were hoping for at least five seats.
I did personally have a count of four seats and I spoke to a lot of conservative pollsters that had between three to five seats. Liberal seats. Liberal seats. So I think everybody was a little surprised tonight because the wave of support... Fort Kearney was, you know, making its way towards the west. But Calgary will Calgary. Alberta will Alberta. And at the end of the day, the sky is blue and so is the province. I wouldn't say it's a big message from the oil and gas. It's just...
Kind of going back to normal in the province, I would say. If it wasn't a federal election, I'd say we have our podcast opening clip there. Calgary will Calgary. Alberta will Alberta. All right. Let's wrap by staying in Alberta, Cheryl. And what this election outcome could mean for relations between Alberta and Ottawa. So Daniel Smith has dined out on Ottawa bashing and it worked with Justin Trudeau as prime minister.
You've got Mark Carney coming in. She had already laid down a marker with a list of demands for a new government, whoever ended up forming that. Do you expect her approach will change given that Mark Carney is going to have a minority it looks like? I absolutely do not expect that her approach will change. built her entire political personality on fighting Ottawa and fighting a liberal prime minister. And it is a perfect political villain for her.
So, I mean, every time she does this, her base is super excited and her polls have stayed high throughout the time that she's been in office. I don't see any reason for her to apply her newfound. diplomatic skills to her relationship with ottawa and uh Yeah, I worry, though, that the vocal minority of people who believe that this will lead to a separatist movement...
that they will be buoyed by that kind of rhetoric. She hasn't ruled out a referendum on secession. Sarah, you worked for the UCP government for a brief stint. So how do you think things are going to play out? Separatism is on the rise in the province right now. We're talking at about probably 30%. Look, I come from a province where separatism was very real and very raw, 1995.
was not a good year in Quebec and the hurt that it does. And, you know, I might be a conservative, but I'm not that kind of conservative. I personally believe that more talk about separatism, joining being the 51st state or any talk about independence. in the economy. I can see an Alberta Free Strategy email coming out tomorrow morning being like, let's go. I would not be surprising Ms. Smith.
calling election next few months because she's extremely high in the polls right now because she has the perfect boogeyman. There's a lot at play here. The Alberta economy at play. Do we want to jeopardize again? Remember when we did the ban on renewables happened? How many companies? pulled back and said, no, no, hold on. We do not agree with that. And it hurt the economy. So I think that there is going to be a disconnect.
and the party, and with the premier, and whomever is in favor of separatism, there's going to be a huge discontent into cabinet, and we are starting to see some... You're a conflicted conservative, Sarah Baker. I went through separation. It's not pleasant. Yeah, but federally, provincially, where do you park your support now? I mean, given where these parties are headed, you sound like you're homeless. I am homeless. I am, especially in Alberta right now, seeing who's at my party.
is not really my party anymore provincially. Federally, do I align with Poirier? No, absolutely not. I'm more of a Peter McKay, Michael Chong kind of conservative. I like to see balanced sheets. I like to see balanced budgets. But I don't care about what people do. Be and let be. That's the kind of conservative, but... We have been chastised so much over the past year.
That right now there's a lot of us that are like, where are we parking our vote? Where are we doing? Like, do I just close my eyes and just do what I usually do? Or what do I do? And it's extremely difficult to hold our space right now because reasonable. kind of right-of-center, small-c conservative.
are being run after with pitchforks right now. That is going to be one of the more interesting storylines that emerges from this election. Serena, I'll let you have the final say on Alberta-Ottawa relations. Mark Carney has been repeating to anyone who will listen that I was raised in Edmonton. Did you hear I was raised in Edmonton? I really like the Oilers. Did you hear I was raised in Edmonton?
That said, the brand is still clearly pretty toxic in this province. So I wonder how you think he deals with Smith. This threat of secession and whether or not actually the fact that it's a minority might help tampen down that threat a little bit, that it won't be. A powerful liberal government that Danielle Smith will have to deal with that she might have the upper hand?
Well, it's always an interesting question to know whether or not Danielle Smith really wanted Pierre to win or not because it bolsters her fortunes one way or another in her own province. I think I want to circle back to what we talked about earlier with Jason Kenney on the rise. once again from the ashes. And, you know, what does he bring to that conversation I think is really interesting. Because I think that, you know, a lot of Albertans do respect
Mr. Kenney as a prominent Albertan conservative and somebody who does speak for the province and for conservatives. And I certainly don't think that he will be pushing that separatist message at all. I actually think that... that separatist message is going to further divide Alberta conservatives, as Sarah has just demonstrated. I think that it's going to, you know, create this sense of...
are we actually serious about trying to be government in this country? And are we actually serious about winning, you know, from that perspective? Or are we just going to sit and whine about things and... talk about separatism when things don't go our way. And so I think that that is certainly going to be something to watch. And I think that the Liberals made some incredible gains in Alberta. Like, yes, there's not a lot of red on the map.
But if you dig into those poll results and you look into those riding results, those are some incredible gains, which means that there is a progressive voice. in the province that wants to see someone act like the adult in the room and the separatist conversation just ain't it.
Show's called West of Centre. Nice to end on a note that puts this part of the province in perspective when we're focused on federal results. This has been a great hot takes chat, you three. Thanks so much for taking the time, Sabrina, Cheryl, and Sarah. Here on election night, I was joined by a conservative strategist, Sarah Biggs, NDP strategist, Cheryl Oates and liberal strategist, Sabrina Grover. I'm Rob Brown. The producer of the show is Felice Chin. If you'd like to get in touch.
Do so at westofcenter at CBC. you send, or at least Felice does. Good job, Sabrina, though. Impressive. Thank you. I do feel really good about unseating a leader. Sorry, Cheryl. I will reserve my comments for when we are not recording. No, but you know what? I've been sitting, what? That's my third election sitting out and just doing this.
I'm kind of missing it right now. Well, you might have a cause to get back into it. I don't know if I have it in me. I'm dealing with toddlers. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcast.