Hello , this is Dr McMinn and welcome to the Wellness Connection MD podcast . Do you have a health issue for which your current therapy is not working , or you just want to try something new ? Consider trying acupuncture . Acupuncture has proven to be effective for many health-related conditions .
In fact , the World Health Organization recommends acupuncture for over 100 conditions . I personally have witnessed miracle cures for some patients with acupuncture , many of whom did not respond well to conventional therapies .
Today we have a special guest on the show , dr Margo Walbert , doctor of oriental medicine , who will share with us some inside scoop on this interesting and powerful therapeutic option . So sit back , relax and enjoy the show .
Relax and enjoy the show . Welcome to the Wellness Connection MD Podcast with Dr McMinn and Coach Lindsey , where we bring you the latest , up-to-date , evidence-based information on a wide variety of health and wellness topics , along with practical take-home solutions .
Dr McMinn is an integrated and functional MD and Lindsey Matthews is a registered nurse and IIN-IN certified health coach . Together , our goal is to help you optimize your health and wellness in mind , body and spirit . To see a list of all of our podcasts , visit wwwmdcom .
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Please do not apply any of this information without approval from your personal doctor . And now on to the show with Dr McMinn and Coach Lindsay .
Hello and welcome to Wellness Connection MD , the evidence-based podcast on all things wellness . We thank you so much for joining us today . I'm Dr Jim McMinn . We have for you a very special guest , dr Margo Walbert , who will be telling us everything you ever wanted to know about the interesting subject of acupuncture .
As always , we come to you to bring you commercial-free , honest , unbiased , up-to-date , evidence-based , outcomes-oriented information , along with practical solutions in order to empower you to overcome your healthcare concerns , to optimize your wellness in mind , body and spirit , and to become a great captain of your ship when it comes to your health and wellness .
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When I left the ER after almost 20 years and opened my practice at McMinn Clinic , I decided to embrace a more holistic , functional and integrative approach to health care . It seemed to me that there were so many patients who were falling through the cracks of modern medicine who needed a think-different approach , as Apple Computer would say .
However , as an MD , my traditional training did not prepare me to do that , since it was mainly focused on drugs and surgery , so I worked hard to add tools to my therapeutic toolbox . However , as a physician , I was also a scientist , so I always felt the need to make sure that the tools I added to my toolbox were evidence-based .
That's always been very important to me . As you can imagine , my MD colleagues were very quick to label me as a quack , since I was stepping outside their rigid box , so I always went the extra mile to avoid modalities that had no credible scientific basis .
I also felt that I owed it to my patients , who often came to me in dire straits and who trusted me to shoot straight with them . It was at that point , after looking into it thoroughly , that acupuncture emerged as a viable therapeutic option for certain patients . Acupuncture has been around and has evolved for thousands of years .
In fact , mainstream medicine is now actually embracing acupuncture . You'll find that they now do . Acupuncture has been around and has evolved for thousands of years . In fact , mainstream medicine is now actually embracing acupuncture . You'll find that they now do acupuncture at Harvard University , mayo Clinic and just about every other major academic institution .
The prestigious Johns Hopkins School of Medicine states that studies have shown that acupuncture is effective to treat many health care conditions . Now you may be thinking that any perceived benefit is just due to placebo effect . However , my veterinarian wife , cheryl , has actually seen proof of significant benefit in animals .
It's hard to fathom that this would just be due to placebo effect . I've also heard similar stories from other holistic vets who corroborated her reports . So Dr Cheryl is not just making this up for a change .
So to make a long story a bit shorter , once I became convinced that I should offer this service to my patients , I took an excellent course called Acupuncture for Physicians . Once I finished the course , I started to slowly integrate acupuncture into my practice .
Now acupuncture is not for everybody and it's fair to say that , like with most modalities , some patients do not receive any appreciable benefit . But on the other hand , I did witness some remarkable results with some patients and it does seem to me that acupuncture falls into the therapeutic category of might help but very unlikely to hurt you .
For instance , a nice lady who was in her 60s came to see me for bothersome headaches . She had been treated by a highly respected neurologist for the past few years with no appreciable relief . So we did acupuncture on her and it was like an amazing miracle cure . She and I were both blown away by the outcomes .
Another success story was a super nice lady who wanted to have a baby . She had been through every conceivable therapy for this , ivf , the whole works . We did acupuncture on her . It took quite a while and boom , she got pregnant . She later brought in a picture of her cute little , healthy baby boy which I kept on my wall for many years .
We were both pretty happy about the outcome of her therapy , produced by acupuncture . Finally , a physician friend of mine and a former patient had a terribly painful condition called trigeminal neuralgia . She was seeing many excellent physicians , including doctors of internal medicine , neurology , pain management etc .
She once told me that the thing that helped her the most was acupuncture . Wow , that's pretty cool . Then one day , out of the blue , I got a call from a Dr Margo Walbert . She was an acupuncture physician and a doctor of oriental medicine down in Florida who wanted to move back to Birmingham for family reasons .
Eventually we met and we hit it off and she joined the practice as a full-time acupuncturist . She grew her practice based on a reputation of successful outcomes and eventually she saw a ton of loyal patients and had some excellent outcomes . One of my favorites with Dr Margo was a patient who came in with some psoriatic skin lesions .
She had not responded well to conventional therapy and I saw the lesions before treatment . And I was dumbfounded when she came back wearing a sleeveless top , absolutely clear skin . It was remarkable and I might say just almost magical . So anyway , let me tell you more about Dr Margo .
She graduated from the East-West College of Oriental Medicine in Sarasota , florida . She has a master's degree in oriental medicine and was granted the title of doctor of oriental medicine in the state of Florida . She also did an internship at HealthSouth treating stroke patients and also studied at the largest TCM institute in China , tcm being traditional Chinese medicine .
After 15 years of practice , which was spent five years at MacMahon Clinic in Birmingham , she retired and is now enjoying lake life swimming , paddleboarding , playing pickleball , gardening , playing music , singing , hanging out with friends and family and painting at her lakeside . She shed .
She is also a massage therapist extraordinaire and a certified expert in craniosacral therapy . In summary , she's quite a renaissance woman and I can tell you without a doubt Dr Margot lives life to the fullest .
So a warm welcome to you , dr Margot , to the show and thank you so much for joining us today and to share your wisdom and experience about the important subject of acupuncture .
Well , thank you , dr Meghman . I'm really happy to be here . It's a reunion I have been waiting for , so yes , let's start .
Absolutely Well , dr Margo . What made you decide to go into acupuncture in the first place ?
I tell you what . I was a body worker for quite some time and I did deep tissue massages , worked on athletes and finally I realized my limits . I got older and I thought I can do this forever . And so then somebody suggested acupuncture and I thought well , that sounds like an interesting concept .
So when I was 54 years old , I started school again , and it was a 10 semester program and let me tell you , my old brain had to be kicked into gear again to be kicked into gear again , but anyway , yeah , that was it . So that's when I did it and I decided I can practice that until my last day probably . And then life took its course .
Well , that's one thing I love about you , Margot You're always learning , even at this stage of the game . You and me both we're about the same age and we're always trying to learn more , so that's kind of cool .
But explain to us some of the core principles of philosophy behind how acupuncture works and from the TCM perspective . Well , let's start with the anatomy . The Chinese see the human body as an interactive channel system and in these channels there floats qi , that is , the life , essential life force .
And these channels interact , go from superficial down to organ level . And if you do acupuncture which is one modality of Chinese medicine , by the way if you do acupuncture you insert needles in certain points on these channels and they have a regulatory function . They don't cure .
Acupuncture doesn't cure , it just re-regulates the body where it shows imbalances , so that the person comes back to its own state of homeostasis . It's all about well-being , it's about qi . Energy and energy comes in different forms and shapes , with different hats on . There is yang energy , there is yin energy .
Yang energy is the driving force , it's the warming element in your body , and yin energy is the nurturing , cooling aspect of your body . That is in a nutshell . So qi is transformative . It can go from protection and pure energy into denser forms of body liquids and blood , and then even to an organ level when it condenses . So everything is moving .
There's never a still point , everything is pulsing , moving because of energy . So , regulating energy . Well , other modalities do that as well , but here it is triggered with acupuncture .
So you look at for instance , an EKG , where you have an electrical tracing of the heart and that's energy .
You look at an EEG of the brain where again , you're looking at the energy of the brain and I think that same energy flows all throughout our body , but somehow in sort of the traditional Western medicine , we really haven't embraced that or learned to measure that .
So but anyway , that's what the ancient Chinese doctors tuned into , and so it's really kind of cool , and over thousands of years they've perfected their approach to that . You mentioned that needles are only one aspect of acupuncture . Talk to us about the other things that people use , like cupping and blah , blah , blah . What else do they use ?
I think the strongest impact are herbal remedies . And they are blends of herbs , or what they call herbs . It could be the tooth growling of a tiger . I mean , this is all you know . They're natural products and the way they mix them they are having regulatory function as well and they're much stronger , you know , than acupuncture .
So herbs Chinese herbs are very effective . I take some and they help me tremendously . So the other modality is , for example , twina massage . A Twina massage is basically manipulating the body , also on points of acupuncture points , or physically , like an adjustment .
And I can give you an example when I was in China , a gentleman walked into the clinic and went to his twina therapist and he was limping and a lot of pain . Well , the door closed the gentleman , the twina massage started working on this gentleman and all we heard was screaming , screaming and screaming in pain .
And I peeked around the corner and I saw how this gentleman put that patient like in a pretzel position . And guess what , after the session was over , the man smiled , walked out there without a limp . So I mean we couldn't do that here . You know , I mean you go to a chiropractor you know , whatever a body worker , but that is true now , for example .
So there's another modality , and that is harder to explain right now , but it's moxibustion , right . It's a wormwood grind or shave which you can light up on certain points on the body . It is usually when the body is deprived of something . You need to photonify it and you can put it directly on the skin .
You've got to be careful with that , though , because if it burns , it can burn the skin . You've got to be careful , but you can stick it on top of needles too to emphasize the strength of the needle . And I have seen also in China treatments . It was beyond me .
I mean the whole place was smoking and people were sitting there with their needles and it was highly effective , you know .
so what about cupping ?
Cupping , yes , yes , yes , I mean it's still a little controversial . A lot of athletes , you see , you know they have these marks and what we used to call this ? It brings up stagnation . What means stagnation ? So if you're working out and your muscles are deprived of oxygen and blood , obviously you know they contract and they're painful .
What the cupping is supposed to do is loosening this up and bring the blood flow back to where it didn't go . And since you have cups , they suck and it gives you a mark . You know you're bruising , basically . So , but it has been effective .
I had cupping done when I had bronchitis , very strong bronchitis , and they did that on my back and it loosened up the phlegm . It loosened it up and I was able to cough . You know that helps . So yeah , cupping has its place , for sure .
And acupressure .
Acupressure is fine . It's a different form of acupuncture . The only difference is you cannot . You have only 10 fingers and there are points on the body that are combined , like , for example , from the shoulder it goes down to your leg . There are several points you cannot do with acupressure , but you can go to certain points on the body to start regulating .
You know , and people are needle phobic , some people you may start with acupressure .
I have found acupuncture actually to be pretty effective for labor pains . Oh yeah , when a woman's having labor , oh yeah , yeah . And there are some points too for labor , to induce labor , right , but you have to very much avoid when somebody's pregnant , you know . Right , that's right . A couple of others acupuncture what they do on the ears .
Tell me about that .
Yeah , I mean the ear is a microcosm of the human body and organ system and I've seen people from Korea Korean acupuncture . They work just with the ear .
Yeah right .
And it is like a fetus upside down .
Yeah .
So down by your earlobe , inside the ear . You better be careful that could be the brain .
Right , right , right and the outer lining is .
Then you know the skeletal from the spine .
Right .
So you know , yeah , you can do a lot , and a lot of this is done when people have addiction issues there are protocols plain for that ?
And smoking cessation ? Yeah right , exactly A couple of others . Let's see what about . Sometimes they connect electricity to the needles . I have done that a lot . How does that work ?
Very much so it works very well A lot in pain management . I did that a lot when people came in with back pain or shoulder pain or whatever . And I would choose my points and yeah , clip these electrodes onto the needle and then you know it works very well onto the needle and then you know it works very well .
And then finally some acupuncturists actually inject some fluids into the acupuncture point . Yes , yeah right .
That you can do in Alabama , but there's an injection therapy which I have certification for in Florida . You can do that , you know . So , yeah , this is usually sometimes . There are herbals , you know , and they are very effective because they immediately hit , you know , the bloodstream , okay well , wonderful .
So when a patient presents to you with a certain set of symptoms in medical history , et cetera , how do you evaluate that patient to decide what kind of treatment plan they need ?
From the minute he steps into my office . You observe a patient by his posture , by his demeanor , by his complexion , by his voice you know , and then you ask for the chief complaint and said okay . So let's say somebody says oh man , I've had diarrhea for about six months or something like that , and they've tried everything else , but it didn't work out .
So , number one , you ask whether there was any kind of situation when that started , because there's a body-mind connection that is very much respected in Chinese medicine . So and then you hear that , then you ask about tastes . What kind of food do you prefer , you know ? And if it's sweet , well you know there's a spleen thing .
If it's a lot of salt , it's a kidney . If it's sour , pickles and whatever it's liver . So there are certain tastes associated with the organs and emotions as well . So a person who's very pensive all the time can be because of a spleen issue or the pensiveness can also influence the spleen .
So this is , you know , this is a interdependent kind of situation and that I put together and look at the tongue , the tongue is also a microcosm of the organs and the quality of the tongue , the thickness of the tongue , the color , you know , the coating is very important and based on all of that and pulses .
And pulses right , yeah , right .
You know left and right pulses .
Well , tell me about the five elements , the wind , water , all that kind of stuff . What's that all about ?
Okay , that is a five element theory that came after the Yin and Yang theory , and there are a lot of practitioners who practice just that . Okay , so there are five elements the heart is the fire element , the stomach spleen is the earth element , the lung is the metal element , the kidney is the water element and the liver is the wood element .
And they can interplay . They can either insult something For example , if you have a liver that's overacting , it can overact on stomach spleen . So that's why you don't just treat the stomach or the spleen , you also consider where does it come from ? So it's a cycle , it's a circle .
There are circles of interactions within the body that are respected in this kind of medicine , you know , and if we , yeah , if you want to compare it with Western medicine , well , I must say they have more an isolated view of the body . You know , they say okay , that's a gallbladder issue , boing , I'm going to give you some medication make the gallbladder work .
Well , hello , it may not be just the gallbladder . You know there could be other organs involved that contribute to this .
They're all connected , aren't they Margaret ? Yeah , of course yeah , we're a whole being .
And you know , since we're on that tangent , there is something they say in Chinese medicine you peel an imbalance like an onion .
So you go from ?
what are your symptoms to where could this originate ? Okay , and then we talk about the ben and the biao . The ben is the trunk , that is the root problem , and then the branches , the symptoms , which are not isolated either , you know . So then you come to treatment modalities and you think wait a minute , what is the most prominent issue here ?
Am I going to treat the root cause right away or do I treat the main symptom first , depending on the gravity of the symptom ? So that's another aspect .
It reminds me of the functional medicine approach , where a patient may come in with anxiety , depression , but at the end of the day it might be a gut issue due to the gut-brain connection , and same thing gut-brain connection and same thing gut-skin connection , that kind of stuff .
So yeah , we're always thinking of what's the root cause of the problem and it sounds like that's very similar to what y'all are thinking .
Exactly yeah .
So let's say somebody comes to see you and you do your evaluation and you decide they need to get a needle treatment .
Describe an actual treatment session for start to finish , what's the patient going to experience there ? The first thing . I let them talk talk about their own issues . Then I observe them and , as I said , you make your diagnosis pulse and whatever . You put this all together and come and you head up with a possible treatment plan .
The patient goes laying down on the table , you have a relaxing atmosphere , you have relaxing music playing , you don't have bright lights shining on the poor guy . So you know it's an intimate like in a little shell . You know that's how the patient has to feel .
And then you swap the points you know , with alcohol and then you take your needles and you insert them accordingly . And I always treat the mind with the body . So that always goes together , always calm the mind or whatever . And needles people are sometimes afraid of them .
They are yeah .
And then I say , okay , I'm showing you what it does . And I put a needle in me , you know . And I said , look , this is all . And before they know it , I said , let me just try this on you and you can tell me if you feel pain or not . And they don't feel pain . I mean most of them don't feel pain , you know so .
And then the needles are just like little whiskers , I mean they're needles , they're hair thin .
Yeah , really , you know For sure .
And you know for sure , and they're sterile .
Yeah , that's actually . I think people are concerned about two things . Number one are the needle sterile ? Number two does it hurt ? And I think you've answered both of those yeah , no they're sterile . Okay , good , well , all right , wonderful . Yeah , I remember your room , margaret .
When you came into the office you set up the room and , oh my gosh , it was just such a relaxing place . You had these beautiful paintings on the wall , you had this relaxing music . Sometimes I would come and I'd see the patient and you had the warming lamps right .
So , you did everything you could to put that patient at ease and make it a pleasant , positive experience .
Sometimes , you know , at the end of the treatment I would also work on them manually a little bit you know , work on their head or whatever , to really just bring them back , Because some people phase out , you know , so you've got to bring them back and then when they're present , full present in their body , then you know they're ready to go .
Yeah , Are there any major safety considerations like , for instance , puncture along with the needle or those kind of things ?
Well , you have to be careful how you insert them , you know I mean you cannot , you know , go perpendicular in an area where you get a pneumothorax for example , you know . So you've got to know your techniques rather well , sure you know ?
Yeah , I mean , I think acupuncture is one of the things that's really safe and effective in almost no downside effects if used properly . But if you get somebody who doesn't know what they're doing , then , yeah , that could end up in trouble .
Yeah , that's why you need to have training , a lot of training .
And , for instance , you're talking about doing it on a pregnant woman . That could be a problem , induce premature labor , or somebody had like a coagulopathy and they couldn't do it . They would be bleeding profusely . So yeah , there are certain contradictions and safety things , but that's why you do the training right .
But you ask people if they're , for example , on Coumadin or blood thinners . You know , so you've got to make sure that they are not . Or if they are , then you need you know , not as deeply as so .
So in your practice , did you often work in conjunction with other health care providers , or was it just a whole separate ?
thing . It very much depends , you know , I mean , for example , you and I have worked together on certain patients . Correct and that worked very , very well .
That's right .
If you have a physician who's open-minded but then some think it's voodoo work . Acupuncture is voodoo work . I mean , those people can't even talk , correct ? I don't try to convince them because they're not convincible , unless I tweet them and they realize something , but often that's not the case . Realize something , but often that's not the case .
Yeah , I think historically , most regular I'll call them regular doctors are not particularly accepting of alternative therapies like acupuncture . But I think it's changing . I think people are becoming more accepting , especially as we have more patient demand .
I think people are looking for options and so , yeah , I think , especially in certain fields , like I know , sometimes your fertility doctors will work with an acupuncturist because the data shows clearly that it helps . You have somebody do an IVF with or without acupuncture and the data clearly shows it works better with acupuncture .
Absolutely , and I always told everybody I got a lot of women pregnant . There we go .
If I recall , there was a little board of pictures up on your wall of women who had babies , because of you .
Yes , yes , yes .
And those were women who could not have babies otherwise . Yes , and so that was really cool . What about Margot the issue of regulation of acupuncture by , say , local authorities like the State Board of Medicine or whatever ? What's the issue there ?
Well , it depends on the state . For example , Alabama doesn't even require licensure .
I was just surprised .
In Florida they are very , very strict and you have to keep your practice in a certain security level and you get inspected every year and you know you have to have a clean field . You cannot have the dirty needles right next to the clean field , and so on .
Yeah , so then there are other states California you can do much more than we could even do in Florida , and it's longer and more intense education . So it depends on the state . It's not federally regulated . In in florida I was on the board . It was the board of what is it ? Gosh medicine ? Yeah right , yeah , you know .
And here , not in alabama , yeah , yeah , you know right . So as a result , especially in states like alabama , where it's just not regulated at all , I would imagine there are people out there doing acupuncture that really are not qualified to do it , and so how does somebody go along and find a qualified , reputable acupuncturist in their area ?
If they are nationally N-C-A-O-M if they're nationally qualified .
How does a patient know that ?
They can look it up . Every acupuncturist has to have their license number and if they don't have a license or even their national qualifications , so they can look for that . However , there are also now a lot of chiropractors . Some of them do acupuncture , but they do pain management , and there is something about it , you know , I mean they don't do the system .
But I mean they can buy channels . They can do that and they're called ashi points . They're points , they are just not on any channel necessarily .
They go by paint pattern .
But that seems to sometimes work , you know .
Exactly , and I think there are a lot of actually physical therapists out there now doing what they call needling right . Right yeah , Dry needling right . Right , yeah , dry needling , dry needling , and it seems like again , that seems to help some folks . So we're all for whatever helps people .
Are there any particular areas of acupuncture research that seem to be exciting these days ?
Well , number one . They have definitely found out that fertility issues that definitely works Anxiety .
Oh , yeah , yeah , yeah , I mean it works perfectly well with anxiety .
Yeah , yeah , yeah . So there are and there have been studies , but they are studies from a Western point of view . They're making measurements and said oh , it's his stomach 36 , which is a tonification point . I see there's , you know , chemistry going on after you insert that point . So , yeah , it's more integrated by now in several aspects of Western medicine .
You know it is , and I think in Western medicine we're finding more and more research on it , with controlled studies . I look at acupuncture , no acupuncture and even what we call sham acupuncture . Why don't you explain that to us , margot ? What sham acupuncture is ? Sham acupuncture , for example't you explain that to us , margot ? What's sham acupuncture is ?
Sham acupuncture is for example . It's just like ashy points .
It's not .
You don't understand the physiology of the body . That is a difference too you know , An acupuncture physician . It's basically a medical view of the body from a Chinese point of view you know so . But if you don't understand the mechanism within the body , you know , yeah , I can do sham acupuncture . You know , I have a headache boy .
I put a needle in , but that may not really do the trick , you know .
So , speaking of some of those studies they're doing , for instance , in 2018 , a study came out in the journal Pain and found that acupuncture was effective with the treatment of chronic musculoskeletal pain , headaches , osteoarthritic pain and yeah . So that was kind of cool and they found in the study it could not be explained solely by placebo effects .
Some people say , well , it's just placebo , doctor . No it's not . No , it's not Also for nausea . That's kind of another interesting one .
The National Cancer Institute did a clinical trial showing that acupuncture was effective treatment for nausea , and that's nausea from morning sickness , from pregnant women , from travelers post-operative nausea , chemotherapy-induced nausea all kinds of nausea and seasickness . Exactly exactly . So did you find it effective for that ?
Yes , very much so . Acupuncture doesn't treat cancer , but it treats . You know , the side effects of therapy , Right , you know so , and that is very , very effective . You know , we had this one patient . She had pancreatic cancer , Remember , yeah , yeah , sure , and she lived another two years . You know , I mean against all odds .
Right .
And she combined treatments from you with acupuncture .
Yes .
And we've had a wonderful time with this woman ?
Yes , and also other digestive issues like constipation , diarrhea , irritable bowel syndrome , Crohn's ileus and gallstone disease . All those things can respond to acupuncture , right ? Yeah , Good , good , good . What about migraines ? Margot , have you had much luck with migraines ?
Yes , I had manually and with acupuncture .
Yeah .
Absolutely but you do it right on the onset , once the migraine has come into full force . It's very difficult . But when you feel an onset and I have friends they said , margot , come over . I think I'm going to get a migraine and there are points on the skull that help it , you know , and then you can anchor it with always distal points .
There are always distal points and points right on .
So , to be clear , if somebody has a headache , you could actually be doing a point on their foot right . That's exactly right . Yeah , if it's a called-bedder channel .
You take a called-bedder point ? Yeah .
Because you've got to think channels .
You can't be punctual .
Exactly , exactly . So , yeah , there was , let's see . The American Migraine Foundation , in 2017 , did a systematic review of 22 clinical trials that found that acupuncture can reduce the frequency of headaches in people with migraines by 50% or more , with up to 59% of the patients , and the effect can last more than six months .
So , yeah , I think that's certainly a strong endorsement of acupuncture for migraines . What about fibromyalgia ? Did you have much luck with that ?
I mean , I had a person who had that and she had to come at least three times a week Because it's such a wide range .
You know what caused fibromyalgia and many different things can cause it as well .
Yes .
But there was a clinical study on that and they found that it was effective for pain , quality of sleep and also just overall quality of life .
And then let's see menstrual cramps .
How about stuff like that ? Oh yeah , Wonderful .
Yeah , yeah , good , good , yeah , yeah , good , good . Yeah , that works rather well . Or any period , painful period , you know if somebody for example , comes because they have painful , their period is not correct . Then you ask about the flow . Is it bright blood , is it clotted blood , whatever ?
And then , dependent on that , you needle these people , you know , and there are points on the leg , there are points on the abdomen , you know , there are all kinds of points that are in combination , help that .
Yeah , and , as my listeners know , one thing I hang my hat on is being what I call evidence-based Margot . Yes , in 2018 , there was a review of 60 randomized controlled trials that found that acupuncture was effective in reducing menstrual pain and related symptoms . So there , again Fabulous . I'm so glad you did that research .
Well , you are , because I think that you know women are often just left to suffer with things like menstrual pain and stuff like that and there's no need for that , and they could come and see you and you would give them great relief . And so also asthma is another interesting thing . Did you have much luck with that , margot ?
Yes , yes .
There you go .
You ask a patient , okay do you have a problem inhaling or do you have a problem exhaling , and there are different mechanisms , and then you treat accordingly , because there are different organs involved . There's a different qi deficiency involved . And so there's a kidney and there's the lung . So kidney anchors the breath .
The lung should bring it down , but it also has to exhale . And when there's a qi deficiency , well , the lung is not working .
Yeah , that's pretty cool . Yeah , there was a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized , sham-controlled and placebo-controlled trials and they found that acupuncture appeared to improve quality of life , breathing symptoms , asthma control and reduce frequency of flare-ups . So , yeah , that's pretty cool . What about the allergic rhinitis ? You know , like a runny nose ?
Oh yeah , you can do that . Wonderful herbs and their points you use . I mean , yes , definitely .
Yeah , another 2022 systematic review and meta-analysis found that acupuncture is effective in treating allergic rhinitis in adults , so I wanted some good evidence for that . And lastly , let me ask you about blood pressure . Did you actually ever use acupuncture to reduce blood pressure ?
Yes , absolutely , there are points on the arm especially , yes , you can , and it's also the mind Right , exactly Always the mind .
Oh , so much of blood pressure is due to .
Anxiety or whatever .
Stress and anxiety Right right Makes your heart pump faster .
Stress measures yes , stress managing .
So randomized prospective trial published in the journal Circulation , which is a huge journal , and they concluded that acupuncture significantly lowers blood pressure .
Isn't that ?
wonderful , yeah . And I think sometimes you know when you go to see your doctor and he or she checks your blood pressure is high , they get out their script pad and write meds . But you know there's so many other things you can do .
The herbs you mentioned . You can do meditation , you can do Qigong , acupuncture .
Yeah , exactly when I opened my mind to alternative therapies . I always tried to be evidence-based and I think the evidence is solid that acupuncture can really help a lot of these folks . Yeah , yeah , yeah . Any other major success stories that you would like to share with us ?
I always love these anecdotes that people have , and some of them are , just like I said , the lady with psoriasis . That was remarkable .
It was amazing . Yeah , that was a wonderful success story ?
Any other great stories you'd like to ?
share . Yes , yes , yes , there was a lady , a heavy set lady . She came in , she had sciatica forever . And you know what ? Maybe by luck , I don't know why . I inserted the needles which I found . I put her on her stomach and then there were certain needles you can insert .
Man . She got off the table and she had no pain For real .
And she said I don't know what you did . She never had to come back , she walked out of there . I was fascinated .
And , to be clear , that's not to imply that everybody with sciatica is going to have a relief .
No , no , no . For some people it doesn't work at all .
But for others it can be miraculous . And again , so you have something that might help , is not sciatica .
Usually it takes longer time .
Some people need several treatments . The only problem is the cost factor you know I mean insurance doesn't cover it . If insurance covered it it would not be so costly . It's a horrible thing .
So that's why I always kept my rates affordable , because I really wanted to help people and not get rich of it .
Right , but then insurance will pay for meds for the rest of her life and she'll suffer with addiction from the pain , meds et cetera , but they won't pay for acupuncture . It's kind of crazy . Now you mentioned she was a little bit overweight . What about acupuncture for weight loss ?
I did that on somebody and did it Ear A lot of ear points . Yeah , there's a hunger point . There are different points in the ear . You can just tweet it by the ear , yeah the ear . Are there any major what I call misconceptions about acupuncture you'd like to address ? You know , all I can say is people .
I hear people often say well , I guess it's all in your head . You got to believe it in order for it to be successful .
I said no .
A lot of people were questioning this and they walked out , you know .
That's right and that's why I love these what I call sham acupuncture studies . In fact , the concept of sham is really interesting . There was a situation years ago where people would come in with like osteoarthritis of the knee and the orthopedic surgeons would do surgery . But then they got to where they actually tried a bunch of sham surgery .
In other words , they would cut the knee and then close it back up and they never did anything . Well , guess what the sham surgery patients did ? Just as good as the real surgery patients . So I think it's worthwhile to kind of sort out , you know , is there a placebo effect here ? If there's not , and try to be evidence-based about it .
But yeah , this is not something that's just kind of an all-in-your-head type of thing ?
No , it's not . And you know what ? A lot of lower back pain is emotionally induced , or your stress around your shoulders , I mean there's a lot of emotional impact you have to respect that and treat it that way . So you go both ways . You're going to treat the issue and then you're going to treat the emotional part . So calm the mind . We always say that .
So is there any particular advice you'd like to give to a patient who might be considering acupuncture for the first time ?
Yeah , I would say be careful whom you are choosing , look at their education and then see if you personally relate to that person .
That's huge that is really important . Really important right .
You know , I mean you're not just somebody . Yeah , you got to relate to that person , you got to feel you trust that person and you can talk to that person you know , and that's important .
Yeah , there was a guy in town years ago was doing acupuncture and I had some feedback from patients . I hear that he was actually quite good , but feedback from patients that his office was filthy .
So to some people that's real turnoff and so , yeah , you have to go and kind of check it out , see how you feel about the whole , the practice , the provider , and is it a good vibe for you ? And what about for , say , a young person , Margo , or some 50-year-old like you who might be thinking about getting into acupuncture as a career ?
Well , I didn't . It's never too late , I must say .
And it was a satisfying career . Yeah , I mean yeah , I did it at 54 years old and I think if you work it right and you build your practice , you can make a good living doing acupuncture yes , you can . Absolutely , and it's certainly a lot less stressful than being an ER doc like I was for 20 years .
Oh God , no , I can't even imagine that .
Well , all right then . Well , anything , any last thoughts you'd like to share with us , Margot ?
No , it was just such a pleasure to be here .
It's good to see you again . I want to have you come on board and take that over , and you did such a fabulous job .
You know what here . Talking about relations , you know how you feel about a person . I made a cold call when . I lived in Florida and I said , make men I made a cold call when I lived in Florida and I said Meg Menkling , that sounds kind of interesting . So I talked to you and your voice vibrated and said , well , that may be something .
It was an immediate . Well , let's give this a try . And then we met twice again , and said okay , boom . No big contracts , Come on in and that was the wonderful way to do it .
It was .
I cherish those years very , very much .
You brought such a wonderful energy to the office and to the patients , and so it was great . I've been your victim many times . I've had acupuncture by you , I've had your massage , and your craniosacral therapy was great . Yeah , that works well , I know this show is not about that , but just say a little bit of word about craniosacral therapy .
Well , I mean the craniosacral fluid , the spinal fluid is rhythmic , so it goes up the spinal cord and then it widens , and then it compresses and widens and compresses . So you try to regulate that . You can find actually imbalances by checking on the flow of the spinal fluid .
So that is a process you develop a feel for and then you do a lot of cranial work actually I did that a lot with other people and you want the fascia also to relax , to feel a correspondence to where you're working on , and when that releases you feel it . You know you feel a release and it has been amazing Lots of somato-emotional release where ?
But you have people that are stuck with their emotion and they start bursting out crying forever and it's a wonderful . I mean , yeah , it's a wonderful release you know , so I've had that .
You know it was very good . Yeah , well , all right then . Well , margot , once again , thank you so much for coming down and doing the podcast with us today . It's great to see you . But that'll about do it for this episode of Wellness Connection MD . I hope the episode was helpful to you in some way . After all , that's why we do the show .
But don't forget to check us out on mcminnmdcom , where you can find a connection to all of our podcasts and where you can also access Wellness MD blog , as well as lots of other great health and wellness information . You can also find there all of my social media links . But You'll find there all of my social media links .
But please help the podcast grow by telling your friends and family about us and please take a moment to review us on iTunes . These reviews really do help us out . If you want to reach out to me by email , you can do so at drmcminn at yahoocom . And , in closing , thank you so much for listening . This is Dr McMinn signing out . Take care and be well .
Thank you , good tea to all of you .