Optimising Nervous System Resilience with Anthia Koullouros

It's where our body will prioritize healing , digestion , repair . It's where we find ourselves in our most calmest state , our most regulated state , because when we're in a stress state , in a non-regulated state , survival is priority , it is not healing .

And so when we're healing , we want to reposition the nervous system to be in a non-reactive , regulated state , not just survival mode .

And there's a lot of energy in that state , lots of glucose , oxygen and adrenaline to move real quick in our um

free state . Different the free state feels like it's more it's . It is still a protective mechanism in response to stress , but it's where we feel a bit frozen , dissociated .

It's an emergency state of the nervous system where we no longer can fight or flight , where we go from an I can to an I can't and we freeze , in a sense , almost to hide , to dissociate , to numb ourselves . And fawn's a little bit different and you've probably seen people fawn . I would say I'm an ex-fawner . The people that people please .

They go into a submissive behaviour as a means to deal with a threat or a stress . So it's quite , rather than fighting or fleeing or freezing , they'll , people please like , they'll give in , they'll comply .

I get that Different in different stages .

When I say what decreases is our regulated state , our regulated state , and when I say what decreases is digestion , immunity , engagement , that decreases because that's not necessary for survival In that stress response . The hypothalamus , pituitary access will then release cortisol to kind of maintain that energy .

Over time we either produce too much or in the case of burnout or adrenal exhaustion , there's not enough . And that's when we can test that as practitioners In the free state , when the state becomes so overwhelmed and we've been in fight flight for too long , the free state , I think think is this wonderful emergency state of the nervous system .

We shouldn't be there for too long because it isn't healthy to be there for too long . Often people think freeze is a calm state , because it's just so different to fight and flight , because you kind of feel a bit numb to the actual stress of what's happening .

So people often will say , oh yes , I'm in a calm state , but they're actually in a dissociated state . In a , in a formed state , it's still activating , either a fight flight or freeze response . The difference with a regulated state of the nervous system is that all blood flow shunts back to that digestive state , to that rest and digest state .

It's the state where we feel really calm and connected , whereas fight , fight , freeze and form they're very protective states . Our regulated nervous system is called rest and digest . It's also called social engagement , where we feel so safe and comfortable in our own skin that we want to connect socially with everyone .

There is also interoception , where we're sensing our internal world as well as our external world . That feedback then comes back to the nervous system which then activates the adrenals . So it's all parts . Because look what happens to our heart rate in fight flight . It speeds up . In an exhausted or a freeze numbed out state heart rate reduces .

In a fight flight breathing activates and speeds up .

In a more freeze response or adrenally exhausted state the breathing can slow down . We will feel sensations of numbness in a freeze state , whereas in a fight flight senses become so heightened we can acutely hear danger , smell , danger , feel danger in that freeze adrenal exhausted .

When we're burnt through it all , when we go from that I can to I can't , we don't sense anything . Everything's quite dull and flat . So we say it's a whole body experience in fact , starting off with our senses internal world , external world tying this in with assessments that we can use , like the cortisol awakening response to say the car right .

Even even if it's flat higher , it's flat without the variation yes is , is the issue that there's no variation , then it's not the level per se yeah , I think so .

Their cortisol readings just go up and they'll stay up throughout the whole day right and it depends on the chronicity as well . It's really interesting to me . So some people's results , they might be just elevated but they still follow the pattern and it's what they do to self-manage it's . It is interesting . It's not a a regular thing that you .

It really all depends on people's starting points , how long they've been stressed for , how they cope and manage with that stress as well , and that will be reflected in those results and also what melatonin is doing at the other end .

Many of my patients don't even realize they're in a stress state . It's a really interesting thing . They're so used to it . They're so used to operating that way that they don't realize they're stressed until I make them aware that they're acting in an acute stressed out state or that they've been in a chronic ongoing state .

So it's not until that they become aware that that the way they're living life or coping is actually not where they need to be . It's not conducive to healing , it's not conducive to living because they're just in survival . But they're so used to that way of being . I ask them sometimes I'll show them a diagram of the regulated state and they go .

I can't remember the last time I was there . I I operate from fight flight and if I want to dissociate or break from that , I go into freeze where I just numb out . And people are so clever . They social media scroll , they take drugs , they eat .

They do all these behaviors to dissociate , but their nervous system will do it for them anyway when it becomes too much .

I usually show them the polyvagal diagram , the Dr Stephen Porges diagram , so they can see where they're positioned in that diagram , that 3T diagram .

I get them really up close and personal to the words that they use and I know this is something that you're really keen to talk about as well which is those internal stresses , that negative self-talk that people have and how we meet that part of themselves , because that only perpetuates the stress that doesn't position ourselves to heal .

And that's what I talk about . Repositioning your nervous system is just , it's the physical expression , but it's also the mental , emotional expressions of stress and we kind of find those words , the symptoms , the story around the words and the symptoms and walk through that door and get to know their nervous system's response .

also so . It's revealing , confronting . And so it's such great relief for someone to actually meet their emotions and feelings , because often patients will come in and say I don't want to feel this way anymore , I'm so sick and tired , or I'm so sick of this , whatever it might be that they're doing or managing .

So to have someone say this is a coping mechanism , you're trying to survive a stress . And what is stress ? Stress can be anything from inflammation , infection , pain , but it can be emotional , it can be environmental , too many chemicals or smells , it could be global affairs , it could be financial .

It could be global affairs , it could be financial , it could be relationship . The body accumulates all the stresses and activates our nervous system to fight , flight , freeze , fawn . However , we cope all of the above . Some of them we do more than others , and so it is confronting and so it is confronting .

But when you explain about the physiological expression of stress , then the people then will say well , no wonder I've got gut issues , no wonder I've got high blood pressure , no wonder I can't sleep at night , no wonder I feel numb and I can't sense or feel something . And so the big thing is to validate this . These are coping mechanisms . They're not bad .

This is what you've developed and what you've evolved into coping . These are your strategies . However they've come about , what we need to do is understand the strategy , the parts of you that are acting this way , the patterns that have evolved this way that's so interesting .

That's why repositioning the nervous system to be in a position to heal or do we just stay in survival mode , I think is one of the most important underlying areas when we're looking at holistically healing a patient is the coping mechanisms tell us a lot . The coping mechanisms tell us a lot .

They may be the underlying cause or they may be just the contributing factor . They create the scene , the scenario , they contribute to what's happening . But chances are if someone's got chronic , ongoing , persistent symptoms , chronic disease , there is an element of the nervous system , of course , always that is being activated in a particular way to survive something .

So it's hard not to address the nervous system . That's why it's such an important factor is when I look at people , I look at their nervous system . I look at whether they're looking at me , whether they're fawning . Look at their nervous system .

I look at whether they're looking at me , whether they're fawning , whether they're people pleasing me , whether they're acting in a frightened state sitting opposite me , whether they're shut down . They're not actually there . They're in the clinic opposite me but they're not really present . So I'm assessing how they look , how they feel .

My nervous system is sensing their nervous system . I'm also assessing if they've got negative self-talk and that tells me a lot .

But if I hear a part of a person's voice that is critical , negative , I hate this . I don't want to feel like this . I take that one little piece and I think , well , that part of you that sounds so negative , that is criticizing , that is critiquing what is happening , that part of you is just another coping mechanism .

It's a part of you that wants to not feel scared anymore . It's a part of you that wants to feel relaxed . It's a part of you that wants to feel comfortable . It's a part of you that wants to feel safe . It's acting in a not very nice manner , but it's actually a part of you that needs attention and needs to be met . So why don't we do that ?

Rather than what we resist persists , let's meet that part of you , and this is the work of Dr Richard Schwartz Parts Theory , Internal Family Systems where we validate and honour , not reject or suppress or bypass any feeling or symptom .

But I also look for functions of things , even though they might seem bad , even though we might judge them as not not being , um , desirable . So , for instance , you speak about survival mode and then we're talking about negative self-talk . But that negative self-talk does it not have ? Let's go back from evolution , right that ?

Ah , you know , keep away your dopey day of don't do that again , you don't ? Is that not protecting us from touching the hot stove twice , reaching out for the snake that would bite us in the long grass when we were cavemen and women ? Um , it does .

So the function of that oh sorry , there is a function to that , but it's just overriding is that what's going on ?

That keeps us in this perpetual stress state that we're not actually looking at

these symptoms and disease states and stressed out feelings as really a story that needs to be met , as something that is popping up over and over again , a part of ourselves that needs attention , a pattern that is well grooved into our nervous system , that is requiring some curious , kind , compassionate attention . And that's what we're meant to do as practitioners .

We're exploring what you're thinking , how you're feeling , how you present your symptoms , how you cope with your symptoms , because that is the path to unpacking the underlying causes and contributing factors , your coping strategies , your coping mechanisms .

And yes , it sounds like you know we're delving into psychology , but we're naturopaths and we're holistic practitioners and so we're looking at mind , body , spirit , soul , environment , upbringing , culture , a whole kin and kibbutz is how does one present themselves ?

So that's where we think of what do we do for acute stress then , just so we've got some capacity , just so we've got some space , before we look at the underlying causes . So in an acute stressed-out state , someone might be hyper-energised or have no energy , especially if it's chronic stress .

And so to create some capacity , maybe first-day treatment is we find ways to create energy , we find ways to calm energy and stress .

So , whether it's supplements , breathing techniques , mindfulness , herbal medicines , there is , there is these different tools that we can use that positions a person in a place to have a little bit of space , more clarity if they've got brain fog , more energy if they've got no energy , more regulation if they're hyperactive , just to then be able to then get into that

realm of . Why am I feeling this ? Why do I keep having these symptoms ? Why do I keep responding in this way ? Why does my outside world always look quite negative or disastrous ? Sometimes we just need that first aid until we can really position the nervous system .

We need some first aid relief yeah and that's what beautiful tools of naturopathy exist yeah , so let's go into this .

So if you're really addicted to sugar , do anything that you can . Obviously there's a component . The addiction for sugar means you're trying to bomb something or distract from something or you're trying to find energy .

But if you're high as a kite on caffeine and sugar and drugs and those kinds of things and stimulating foods or soft drinks or colors , whatever it might be , I think that's one of those things that you do . It wouldn't be the first thing , but it is a really important foundation when we're looking at repositioning the nervous system .

So we're not responding in a fight , flight , freeze or foreign state .

There's very , very acute things that one can do to , you know , calm the nervous system . Splashing cold water on your face , a cold compress , I know it's so simple . It could be shaking out or dancing out the adrenaline , that excess adrenaline , instead of just saying go and sit in your room or go and sit in the corner .

If we're in this activated acute stress response , we need to exercise , we need to complete that stress cycle and get rid of all that excess adrenaline could be . Just , you know , if we've kind of left the room and we're wanting to ground ourselves , it could be .

I do a cute little technique five Around senses identify five things that you see , four things that you feel , three things that you smell , two things you hear . One thing you taste , it's whatever activity . So often I ask patients what is it that you do that helps you get grounded ?

Patients know there's stuff that they do , that does , and if they don't , then we give them these exercises Again . It's this acute stuff , the acute stress relief , that just regulates , even for a short period of time , so they don't jump to the sugar , so they don't jump to more caffeine , just to widen that space from reaction to a response .

It's tricky , but it's so doable . You're looking at it holistically , that's for sure .

But I love , I love what you've said about five , four , three , two , one . That's brilliant , because five things you can go emergency . What's my five things ? What's my four things ? Okay , what's it ? And it takes that time .

And if they don't do anything and their coping strategy is just sugar and caffeine , well , we kind of do some healthy swaps , from coffee to maybe green tea . And I talk about l-theanine . We're not going to give it as a supplement . It might be start taking magnesium , it's . It's a bunch of things .

It's so individual and it's so bespoke , so very prescriptive what works for each individual person . But I think the goal is this create some space , give them the first aid . If they've got brain fog , help them with clarity . They've got no energy , give them energy . We're not really addressing the underlying causes at that point .

It's just creating some capacity so they become aware that their nervous system is what , and repositioning those nervous system is what is actually going to put them into that healing realm .

They're either not taking good quality things , they're not taking the right dose , but simple things , and again , I might not even have time to do a blood test because someone is such in a state where I can't give them a list of 10 things to do or even go and get a blood test because they don't have capacity for it .

So we need to get them to feel better quickly . So that's where I might give them some activated bees magnesium , zinc , c , l-theanine it might be those supplements and then herbally it might be things like and again , are they on any prescriptive medication ?

So we're not looking doing any drug interactions , um , ashwagandha or withania , it might be saffron , it might be all my herbal adaptogens and nervous system or nervine herbs that I love california poppy and passion . If someone's not sleeping , let's help them sleep , because then that creates again capacity positioning of the nervous system . So we're moving from a reactive

state to a more responsive state and that positioning is then healing . Often people think , oh , I feel better now . But that's not . We haven't addressed your underlying causes and contributing factors . We've just put you in the realm of healing .

Are they in the fight-flight where they're so highly wired and not sleeping ? Are they in the freeze , brain fog , numb state where I need to activate them ? So that's when we use different . See the different stages and the different reactions to stress . Do we need activation ? Do we need to liven them , awaken them ?

What are you doing the meantime ? So when the results come in , that it can creating a stress in the nervous system , can I do some first aid to create some capacity , some clarity , some energy or some regulation if they're hyperactive , so we we can look at the results , so we can implement a protocol .

So again , it's that positioning of the nervous system in any which way possible to create capacity to implement a protocol . Some people can only do the whatever we do to make them feel better immediately . Some people we unpack enough that we think you know it's time to see a psychotherapist or a psychologist now to do that deeper work .

I can get them to the door , but they need to see their therapist to do the deeper work .

I get them to the door of having enough capacity mentally , physically , emotional to do the deeper work , whether it is with the naturopath and the psychologist or psychotherapist , but it's that first aid , positioning the nervous system , creating energy , regulating energy , creating capacity , clarity just a quick question about polyvagal therapy that you spoke of earlier .

But again , it's that once you become aware of I'm operating in a fight-flight or a freeze response or a fawn response , once people become aware of their nervous system positioning , then we can then start having those conversations about polyvagal the vagus nerve , fostering more parasympathetic nervous system activity , moving from that sympathetic nervous system state to that

more regulated state . And these are all the different techniques . There are so many techniques to use , which is the good news .

There are techniques that we can offer to a patient and say pick the thing that you relate to , the thing that makes you feel most comfortable , Do the thing that makes you feel like you're regulating your nervous system repositioning your nerves .

That's all Something that you could do before you pull up to a meeting in a car , something that you could do just outside your boss's office , something that you could do before you pull up to a meeting in a car , something that you could do just outside your boss's office , something that you could do just outside your walk in the door .

Like there's a two-minute thing , it doesn't have to be this , you know an hour-long meditation in a yoga position and things like that . I was very impressed with who showed me this Can you show us now . Oh , can you want me to show you ?

So it is simply closing your eyes and taking a long , deep breath in through your nose and then exhaling through your mouth and then completing , crunching over so you push more air out and then a big breath in Perfect , that's it . That's it , you know , and within there is a pause in breathing .

and I do this , is that it it's like no , because it's taken you years to react in this way . It's like via neuroscience . And the wonder of neuroscience is that we can wire in a new response , a different way that it's understanding . It's getting to the roots of why are we reacting that way ? Why are we fawning ? Why are we freezing ? Why are we fleeing ?

Why are we reacting that way ? Why are we fawning ? Why are we freezing ? Why are we fleeing ? Why are we fighting ? And so these little techniques are just so we can really feel into what regulation means . What does regulation feel within our nervous system ? Because that's ultimately

where we want to be when we're looking at healing . Now , the goal isn't to always be in a regulated state , and some patients will say what do you mean ? Because we're not immune to danger , we're not immune to stress .

We want to be able to have a great active , fight , flight , freeze response , but we also want to be able to regulate , not just stay trapped in these different spaces . Regulate , not just stay trapped in these different spaces . So really the mark of well-being is being able to move between the different states of your nervous system adaptation .

So , just as we tell them , understand how your digestive system works if you've got chronic constipation , how you digest , absorb your gut microbiome . Constipation , how you digest , absorb your gut microbiome do the same with your nervous system . Befriend the nervous system . Understand at any given moment where you are in your nervous system .

Are you reacting from a fight response , a flight response ? Are you in a freeze response ? Are you a perpetual fauna ? What is your coping mechanism ? When you understand how your nervous system works , then we can work with it . And we always say love what it is that you're looking at .

So when you love enough of something that you're taking care of , it'll love you back . When you pay it enough attention , it'll pay you attention back . So follow the love . Love the thing that you're working on . It will love you back . Pay attention to the thing that needs paying attention to and it will pay attention back at you .

Meet the parts that are unmet . Get to know the parts that are unmet . Get to know the parts that require attention , because aren't they what symptoms are and what stress reactions are ? They're a cry for help . It's look at me . You're not paying any attention to me .

Thank you so much for taking us through this very important topic today on Wellness by Designs .