MG: Welcome to the Well Dukes podcast it's your host Mary Grace, or some people know me as MG, or MJ have a lot of nicknames around here. But once again, your host for today and our topic is cannabis. I'm so excited to have this chat, because I'm just very curious about this subject. I feel like it's going to be a great way to learn more, and have an opportunity to chat a little bit about the fun and potential risks that come with utilizing cannabis in your everyday life. And today I do have very special guests with me and so I'll let her go ahead and introduce herself.
Paige: Thank you Mary Grace. I am so excited to be here and I love that you chose the word curious because I feel like that word captures how I feel about cannabis, I am so curious, and I feel like I almost learned something new every day, so I appreciate the chance to be here and to talk with you. I am page Hawkins, I am a wellness coach in UREC, and meet with students to explore Alcohol, cannabis and nicotine in their life. I've spent 20 years in higher education, so on 4/20. This is actually my 20th year on a college campus, supporting alcohol and other drug prevention and early intervention efforts so it's work that I am passionate about and invested in. And as I was thinking about introducing myself today, I started to think about how I grew up with a lot of fear based tactics, a lot of scare tactics, or abstinence based prevention messages and that was just such a reminder this morning as I was preparing for how thankful that I am to be able to now be in this field and have it progress so much to a place where we really want to support students autonomy. And we want to empower them to seek knowledge and wisdom and make choices that reflect what they value.
MG: I feel the same way Paige, whenever I was growing up, the fear tactics and abstinence based, where the only thing that was being taught really and so I'm excited to just sit and have a conversation with you today, and I know in the past, we you know sat down and had a couple conversations leading up to this. And so we'll go ahead and start with the basics of cannabis and so today will be kind of focusing on some of the new laws and kind of what that means for our student population will talk about best practices and dosages just the basics that a student might need to know if they're even considering trying cannabis of any sort, really. And then we'll talk about just overdosing and what that kind of looks like with cannabis because I'm pretty sure before reading the potty mouth in the bathroom stalls... I didn't realize myself that you could overdose on cannabis. So a lot of fun stuff to talk about, but let's go ahead and start with the new laws happening in Virginia.
On April 7, Virginia became the first state in the south to begin the process of legalizing adult use cannabis, and then the changes I know started around July 1. But what does this actually mean, in the context of what we're allowed to do in Virginia and maybe what that means for our student population?
Paige: Great question, and a very timely question. We're going to spend a moment and talk about Virginia specifically, but it's different in every state, and there are many different terms that we use. We talk about decriminalization, legalization, and medicinal use. So, one thing that I do want to stress as well. While we're going to spend a moment, reviewing what is true currently for Virginia, it's so important to do your own research and if you're traveling or if you're moving to a state. When you graduate from JMU, really seeking out that knowledge to know, what are the expectations in the area that you're moving to in the state and so that we can be accountable for those things but back to your question.
So, in July. It became legal for an adult, age 21 or over to possess up to one ounce of cannabis. And I think that word possession stands out. Because that's very different from purchasing. So I can be in possession of up to an ounce of cannabis but I cannot legally purchase cannabis, you can gift it, it can be gifted or given to me. But there can be no monetary exchange so we are not as estate in the commercialization yet of cannabis so that's, that's something to point out, and to understand the difference. And then also knowing that more than an ounce, being in possession of more than an ounce is illegal, remains illegal, using cannabis while in or while driving a motor vehicle remains illegal, and then specific to our campus so all institutions of higher education fall under the campus drug free act and that's a federal act that prohibits cannabis from being on any campus, any college or university. So cannabis, including medicinal cannabis, cannot be on JMU property. So on campus or any JMU owned property.
MG: That is a great point to kind of start with and so our students who are under the age of 21 or living on campus really need to realize here that what we're saying is, you still cannot do that on campus that is the loud and clear message that we want you to know we don't want anyone getting into trouble on campus because they still will be held to the student handbook for that reason.
Otherwise, you know, we have some of those off campus students who are over the age of 21. So what does that look like for those students Paige?
Paige: So someone living off campus, over the age of 21, and I don't want to sound repetitive but again, can possess up to one ounce. Anything over that can be viewed as having the intention to distribute or sell. And that becomes a felony. And so, again, thinking about the amount of cannabis that I have the location where I have that so it is still illegal to have it, or to consume it in public. So being very mindful and thoughtful about the environment that I'm in. And the visibility of where I'm consuming cannabis would be important for our students who are off campus, if cannabis is a part of their life, or if when they turn 21, and they want to stay within the legal guidelines of the Commonwealth of Virginia, also keeping those things in mind.
MG: One thing that I do want to point out that you had said Paige would just be that our students over 21, you know, whatever that looks like and their relationship with cannabis, that's okay and it is legal, but if they are to then bring it to campus. We know that our rules have not changed. And so, you know, even if you live off campus, even if you're 21, and you bring it to campus, that's when you start to get into trouble. And then absolutely with being in public and either utilizing it in public, or offering it to someone else will get you in trouble as well so just keep your eye out. Those are the things we want you to really know and look out for.
But we are also going to talk through some of the best practices. So we're going to go ahead and move into the, I guess, harm reduction piece and knowing that there's no standard dose of cannabis. So Paige, what is a good way to make sure that you're not consuming too much of that, like what does that even look like?
Paige: Yeah, yeah. That is that complicated question every person's individual response to a chemical or substance, including cannabis is going to be unique, a mentor of mine, a former colleague at Virginia Commonwealth University used to describe individuals as genetic snowflakes. We are all unique, we are all individual, and one person’s experience with cannabis is never going to be a direct comparison to someone else. And so really keeping that in mind and knowing that someone might experience euphoria, they may experience, relaxation, and appear using cannabis for the first time, my experience anxiety, fear, distrust paranoia. It could be a very unpleasant experience, so THC potency varies so we don't have a standard dose.
When I talk with students about alcohol. And we, you know, one of the basic things that students learn or anyone learns is kind of that, what is a standard drink, and we can define that.
And we can make choices that help us have predictability of our experience based on those definitions for a standard drink. We don't have that for cannabis and THC potency varies widely. It varies among strains. It varies between hybrid plants. The way in which I choose to utilize cannabis so inhalation versus edibles versus concentrates all of that changes the potency, and it's important to point out that potency is not connected to quality.
So, again, everyone's experiences are unique. There's variation in cannabis, that can often be difficult to determine, and so I just encourage everyone to ask questions to seek information about cannabis. What is the strain? What is the THC potency? How was this breed? Was it selective breeding? There are a lot of things that we can try to to inform ourselves about if we want cannabis, to be a part of our life, a part of our experience.
MG: So it really sounds to me like There are so many different ways that you can consume cannabis, kind of like alcohol you know there are your options for many different types.. you have liquors and you have beer and you have wine, and there's all these differences. And so, with cannabis you have the variation, not only in the strain. And so that is Sativa and Indica, which I always want to call stevia and I know that that's not right... That is just, you know, sugar, basically, or a sugar substitute rather.
But Paige, there are various strains of cannabis, and I've always been told that the best way to remember them is that Indica is in da couch and stevia is just the one that like you have more energy. So in my mind, you know, calling it stevia and, you know, little sugar like that that's what helps me remember that it's more of an upper. And that, in the couch is Indica, but can you tell us kind of what those are and maybe the background behind, anything else that you can provide for that.
Paige: Yeah, I love that and I have never heard that before, but I'm gonna, I'm definitely going to repeat that and use that in the future but you, you said it very well. Though those who are in the cannabis industry really seem to differ about strains, there are some who will feel very passionate and say that they indicate dominant strains are more likely there's certainly there's no guarantee, but they are more likely to produce the calming effects from cannabis, and the sativa dominant strains are more likely to be uplifting. I think where it gets really complicated is there are so many hybrid strains that contain both genetics. So, allowing them to produce both types of effects, perhaps, without predictability. So, when I'm speaking with the student about cannabis.
One thing that I often ask them to think about for themselves, is what are your intentions of cannabis. In what way are you perceiving or you hoping that you will benefit from the experience that you might have with cannabis and really exploring that for themselves. So, we might be able to learn a little bit about the experience that we have from strains. And we also know that it's complicated. And then recently I was listening to a podcast that I really enjoyed curious about cannabis and they were talking about terrapins and terrapins are really the essential oils that can be extracted from the cannabis plant, and some believe kind of passionately that terrapins perhaps have a pretty strong influence on the experience that someone has.
So I would come back to you in an answer to your question Mary Grace, I would come back to how we started this POTcast, which is just, we've got to remain curious, I think we need to continue to learn from one another and avoid taking sides you know we talked about a little bit about cannabis becoming legal in Virginia, but what I really want us to do is just learn one another share new research share information and not be divided as kind of pro cannabis anti cannabis, but to really just work together.
MG: Curiosity is so important, that's how we've gotten so much knowledge up to this point about really everything. So being curious about cannabis, while it might seem like a taboo subject or like in the past, you know, it just really wasn't talked about within our education systems. The best way that you can prepare yourself, if you want to have any sort of relationship or even want to try a cannabis variety of some sort, is to be curious and do some research. But still finding those credible sources that aren't going to lean you one way or another but will tell you the facts of what we know so far.
With that being said, it sounds like there's so many different things that factor into the way that our body is taking on cannabis and how it makes us feel. And I know that another variation of that is the various ways that you can consume so inhalation... You have bongs, you have little water pipes, which are very similar to bongs, you have... I'm not even gonna try to name all of them because I know that there are so many, but like you have a blood like there are so many things, and a whole other world of that is edibles and so knowing that edibles like you might have a more standard dose but a lot of times they're made in larger batches and you kind of have to, you know, they'll give you the big picture and say this is the overall dosage of the entire edible. And this is kind of how you have to figure out, maybe, where you're going with that and like starting with maybe 10 doses, or 10 milligrams rather not 10 doses that would be you leading us right into the overdose area there. But knowing that dosages when you're smoking are so much different, and that it impacts your body in a different way. So, with that, do you have any advice for our students?
Paige: Well I think you're, you're starting to lead into harm reduction and around cannabis use and so for someone who cannabis is a part of their life, or they want to have a plan for it to be part of their life. If those are their intentions, considering the method of ingestion is really important. Cannabinoids pass into the bloodstream through the lungs within seconds. One to two seconds. So that's a very, very quick way to experience cannabinoids. Edibles require patience. So, it could take up to two hours for someone to begin to feel the effects of edibles, and maybe even up to four to feel the full effects and if someone purchases a brownie that looks like what would be a normal serving of a non cannabis brownie. But that brownie is actually four servings of a cannabis brownie. Again, being informed and having knowledge of what it is that I'm ingesting and really kind of what I've heard from students, is just start low and go slow as they think about the method of ingestion. Start low, have knowledge of THC potency and be patient. Allow yourself to really feel the effects of cannabis and being mindful, and with intention of that also sticking to one substance of your time .I think when we think about a plan for harm reduction. We've talked about how it's challenging to predict what we might experience with cannabis. When we add alcohol or another substance into that mix, we're making it even more difficult for predictability and so I think that's another point that's really important to remember as we start to think about reducing harm.
MG: And something that I caught from what you just said was, edibles take patience. So with that, I just want to know that they do sometimes take longer to really hit. And so if you've taken one and you wait now and you're like, I'm not feeling anything maybe I should take another, maybe just wait on that and see how it is that hits and fully go through the process and then if you know you never ended up feeling anything, knowing where from there. But also realizing that if you're taking a different edible than you did the first time. It can also have very different effects.
So just talking about, like, the awareness of that and making sure that you ask questions. I know that we've said this before, but asking questions is one of the biggest things that is going to keep you in a positive mindset, it's going to make sure that you aren't taking too much still figuring out which strain you're taking or even what level of consumption is standard. So, knowing that if you are inhaling, your substance that the longer you inhale, the more that you are going to then take into your lungs.
Paige: That's actually a really good point. And one of the Instagram accounts that I follow, which is also called curious about cannabis they posted recently about that holding is harmful, and in fact holding a hit, could lead to oxygen deprivation, or carbon monoxide poisoning.
So, you know, again, being a very curious consumer and doing what we can to minimize our risk, and to minimize, anything that would put at risk something that we value something that we prioritize.
MG: Absolutely. And one of the things that I want to know just right now would be that if that is something like if utilizing cannabis is something that you're going to do... We still do want you to have a good time doing that. We don't want you to end up in a space where you feel like you have overdosed and you're starting to panic or you feel very anxious. The experience has a lot to do with the mindset going into it as well. And so if you are maybe pretty nervous about trying it but you know that you want to... a party in the middle of the weekend with a bunch of people that you don't know, maybe isn't the right setting for that. Trying to do that around people that you know and know will take care of you if anything were to happen is very important and just surrounding yourself with any possible precaution that you can before choosing to try cannabis for the first time, is just very important.
Paige: Yeah, Mary Grace you just made two really good points and, and I can kind of summarize them in a really brief way which is just be curious about cannabis, use with intention,
If you choose, and use with people you trust. in an environment where you feel safe.
MG: I think those are so important, and one of the big things that I do want to make sure our listeners know is kind of what that overdose might look like so that if they're in a situation where they think they may have overdosed on cannabis, or that someone that they are taking care of, or see out and about or at a party or something like that. How do they know when it's time to receive intervention from medical professionals?
Paige: And that's a complicated question, sometimes. Sometimes I'm not sure how to answer that question because I feel like we're asking our students to to assume a role that's not appropriate, that's outside of the scope. And that's difficult, we often think about overdose with the loss of life, when in reality an individual's experience with overdose could look very different, there might be very moderate symptoms and there could be very serious life threatening, sometimes depending on the drug involved.
Most often, a THC related overdose is going to present with severe anxiety and severe paranoia. And so, in those cases, really contacting 911, kind of, turning it over to someone who can accurately assess and if necessary, seek the best resource and the best support for that individual. So calling 911 is always an option. The 24/7 poison helpline is also an option. So, reaching out talking about what I might be seeing and getting feedback from a trained professional to identify overdose, and to discuss what steps I can take and/or if 911 is going to be the best route to take. Staying calm yourself, I think is important, trying to stay calm, trying to mirror calmness for that individual, creating a safe quiet space, until support arrives. And those are the things that that really stand out to me.
And then I also feel an obligation to, as we're talking about this remind our students that the enlightened citizens amnesty policy does exist at JMU, and so that grants amnesty from the university's alcohol and other drug strike policy, when medical assistance is sought by a person in need, or from the bystander. So, an individual needing medical attention can receive amnesty, and an individual who might be under the influence, who identifies and reaches out for medical assistance, can also be granted amnesty from being found responsible for an alcohol or drug violation on campus so we want to do as much as we can to minimize any barriers that exist, that might keep a student from seeking medical attention when it's necessary.
MG: That can definitely be a terrifying situation and trying to make that decision definitely feels like a very heavy one. Especially for undergrad students I know that whenever I was an undergrad, I always kept the mindset that I know what an overdose looks like for alcohol and what alcohol poisoning looks like But I would never want to have to make that decision for one of my friends and I know that if it had come down to it, that was a decision that I was willing to make for my friends, because I care more about the life than them getting into some trouble. But it definitely feels like a heavy decision to be made. And so just know that if you are partaking or if you are around those friends that you know will take care of you that in the moment your judgment call is the right call
Paige: Exactly, trust you trust your gut.
MG: Definitely. Paige, I’ve heard recently that cannabis is at an all time high. Can you speak more to those statistics?
Paige: Sure. Well, first I just have to kind of chuckle that it's at an all time high. There's so many puns with cannabis, (MG: so many) so many. So, what I tend to turn to when I am wanting to follow trends or learn about the impact of cannabis on college age population is Monitoring the Future, which is administered by the National Institute of Health. And, yes, in some ways that statement is accurate, the past five years, we have seen a steady increase reaching actually the highest level of past year use of cannabis since the early 80s.
And what we also need to focus on and pay attention to Is that still the majority of students, six out of 10, reported not using cannabis in the past year. And when students were asked about daily or near daily use only 8% in 2020 reported daily or near daily use of cannabis. So we have a lot of students, for many, many reasons in their lives, who are choosing not to use cannabis. And we have a lot of resources, and a lot of knowledge, and a lot of information for those who are curious about cannabis, or who might want to try cannabis in the future.
MG: Great point. Just knowing that not everyone is doing it does like ease that peer pressure like that piece of tension and knowing, not everybody does it and it's okay if you don't want to either, you can still be curious about it and learn more about whether you're interested and learning a bit more about yourself in the process.
So Paige we've gone over a lot during this episode we've talked about the gloss and kind of put that means for our students, and knowing that there is still that each one of being 21 years old, and on campus, It doesn't matter how old you are. It is just not allowed. So we want to make sure our students are aware of that. And note that also using cannabis in public will get them in trouble when and where they are choosing to utilize. We also talked about best practices as far as dosing and, you know, starting small and being able to move up from there, as well as just asking someone that you are obtaining any sort of cannabis product from, the details about what they're providing for you. And then finally talking about overdosing kind of what that looks like and what the decision is to be made, and knowing that, you know, you have to trust yourself. So after that summary, what is the one thing that you want our students to take away from this episode today.
Paige: I suppose I come back to remaining curious and supporting one another. So choosing to abstain is a choice that any student can make, they should feel empowered by that. They should feel supported in that. And students who choose to use alcohol, cannabis, nicotine any other any other substance should feel empowered to know that there are resources on campus who want to support them, who want them to thrive at JMU who want them to have the best academic experience that they can on not allowing anything to interfere with that experience, with their potential, with opportunities for them while they're on our campus or in the future.
So, I suppose this is a long way around to say that what I want students to take away is to know that wellness coaching exists at JMU. And it's such a wonderful space. Wellness coaching is a space to meet with me, or one of our other facilitators and be able to think out loud. Be honest with ourselves be heard, be accepted for who they are, your students are experts on themselves, and we provide a space in wellness coaching where we want to empower their autonomy, and we help them explore cannabis in their life, and can ask some questions to help them think about the plan that they have for themselves, how they can minimize anything that they identify as undesirable, and really think about the choices that they're making and that they want to be making for themselves moving forward. So knowing that wellness coaching is an empowering place that can be very validating and affirming for students is one thing I would want them to take away.
MG: I absolutely love that. And I love that you continue to say, Be curious, because that really is one of the biggest points here. It has been taboo for so long that we just don't even have the education on it, like we could and like we probably should. So continue to be curious about cannabis, and also know that Paige is a lovely human to talk to you one on one and she does a great coaching session. Paige, I just want to make this clear, you don't have to have a problem with cannabis in order to come to the coaching sessions right like if that's something that you want to know more about? That's just an option as well.
Paige: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Thank you for clarifying that. Yes.
MG: Yes. So we try to hit it, like all the different spectrums of whether you're curious and you just want to know more and have a conversation with someone that maybe doesn't know you and isn't your parents but it's still an adult that can give you that valid information. We have lovely resources. We have wonderful human beings that are over that program, and I definitely encourage our students to try that.
So we're going to ask you one final question. And this is just going to be a personal question, but what is a piece of advice that you would give your undergrad self.
Paige: Oh goodness, ummm wake up earlier. Yeah, I, I have never necessarily been a morning person, per se, but I do feel like there were missed opportunities by you, know kind, of sleeping my mornings away or, you know, not having the energy or the motivation to get up and to get moving and to be fully productive. As I think I could have during the day so regardless of how maybe I would have spent that time, I think I would, would encourage my former self, my younger self, to just try to wake up earlier and seize, seize the day.
MG: I have been getting up so early, that it's dark outside now whenever I'm leaving my house. And my dog and my cats, just like snuggling up next to me like, man, I don't want to get out of bed a lot of days, but I also feel so much better when I get up I get a good start to my day. So I definitely appreciate that advice. And overall, I'm so thankful that you came on this podcast today. You've provided such a great resource for anyone who's listening. and we hope our listeners, if you don't already, go ahead and follow @JMUUREC and @JMUWellDukes on Instagram for more wellness tips and content. And if you have any burning questions or topics that you'd like to hear discussed on the podcast, please send that feedback to our email, which can be found in the episode description as well.
Tune in, in 2 weeks to hear us talk about gym etiquette and what that looks like being able to utilize our resources here in UREC and also provide information for our students… and remember Be Well Dukes!