Episode 9 Transcript and Links
Links
Link to learn more about Reflections: https://www.jmu.edu/healthcenter/alcohol-other-drugs-updated/Reflections.shtml
Link to statistics about drinking rates: https://www.acha.org/NCHA/ACHA-NCHA_Data/Publications_and_Reports/NCHA/Data/Reports_ACHA-NCHAIII.aspx
Transcript
0:01 Jordan: Hi there! Welcome to Well Dukes, brought to you by the Well. Each week, you'll hear conversations from a variety of JMU staff and students that we hope challenges what you know, think or do in regard to your own health, and helps you be Well Dukes.
0:23 Ty: Hey, Dukes, welcome to another episode of the Well Dukes. My name is Ty Greenough. I'm a graduate assistant for the Alcohol and Other Drug department here at the Well. Today, we're going to be chatting about alcohol and all things tolerance- and blackout-related. So I've got two very special guests here with me today. Why don't you introduce yourselves?
0:41 Mindy: Thanks, Ty for getting us started. My name is Mindy Koon, and I'm the Assistant Director for alcohol and other drug abuse prevention in the Well. I've been here about four years now and have been working in the AOD field for many, many years with young people. And it's just a-- this is a topic I really care about.
1:02 Paige: Thanks. Ty, I'm Paige Allen Hawkins, and I am the alcohol and other drug early intervention specialist in the Well. I have been at JMU for about 13 years now. And I have been working in alcohol and other drug prevention and education and early intervention for more than 20 years in higher education.
1:27 Ty: Awesome, thank you so much, Paige and Mindy welcome. So before we dive in, tell me a little bit about why you're doing the work that you do now. What's your stake in this?
1:37 Mindy: That is quite a big question, Ty. Um, I think, for me, it's a passion that grew as a result of finding myself in the alcohol and other drug abuse prevention field. When I graduated grad school, I went to school for college counseling. So at the end of that program, as I was looking for opportunities, I found a job working with high school students around alcohol and other drug abuse prevention providing counseling, early intervention services, and life skills programs. In addition to that, I also was trained to facilitate very intense programs that occurred over two days. So it was about 12 hours of time for this entire program for individuals who were arrested on impaired driving incidents. And the program for that is called Prime for Life that I was facilitating. And I was just amazed at the impact that program had over the course of those 12 hours. You know, you meet folks coming in-- And, you know, here's this incident that happened for them in their lives, and they're trying to process and make meaning of and having a variety of obligations related to that. And here's one obligation: come into a class to learn about alcohol and other drugs and the individual effect on folks and to see people leaving the following day with the information... It was so meaningful. The curriculum was based on Motivational Interviewing, so it was a really nice way to share information. And then I'll say, working with high school students really was eye opening. These concerns happened so early in individuals' lives sometimes. And as an adult, it's hard to think about, you know, a 13 or 14 year old being in a situation where they're making decisions with alcohol and other drugs. And that's absolutely what can happen for folks.
4:12Ty: Yeah, so you really saw the impact of what people were at this big developmental milestone in their lives that alcohol was having on them. And you were seeing the effect that some good guidance and proper listening to oneself can have on those sorts of people.
4:28 Mindy: Absolutely. Being able to process and be treated with respect, and kind of as that expert on your own life, really, I think resonates with people. So through these experiences, I think I became really passionate about the work and as I was learning about the field, and about some of the topics we'll discuss today, I kind of wish that was information I had already known.
5:01 Ty: Well said Mindy, thank you. Paige?
5:04 Paige: Well, I would say it wasn't a direct path to this field. I was a graduate students at JMU, in the College Student Personnel program, and was very much trying to be a generalist, I was trying to get experience all around the university and learn from from colleagues, and students, and there was an opportunity, I received an email, there was an opportunity to be trained to teach a class in what is now OSARP-- Student Accountability and Restorative Practice. And so I volunteered, I taught what was called then and is still called a class, “By the Numbers.” And it is an alcohol education class, the curriculum is a little different now than it was 20 years ago. But I taught that class and a couple days later, walking across campus, a student who was in the class, came up to me and said, “Thank you,” and just really briefly shared how important it was for them. And that struck me, it was very validating, it was very affirming. It felt good. And I started to see some pieces of the puzzle come together, I have relationships in my life at a very young age that were impacted by alcohol and other drug use. I had this very validating experience with the student, I really enjoyed teaching the class for student accountability. And so the pieces kind of started to, to fall together. And then I was lucky enough to be offered a position at the University of Virginia, where I worked for a number of years in their alcohol and other drug abuse prevention field. So the path kind of came together for me, and I'm so glad that it did. Because just like Mindy, I feel like the work that I'm doing today is the most validating, affirming work, it is so wonderful to be able to spend time with a student and empower them to make choices that protect what they value, empower them to learn about themselves, and to look out for and keep their friends and their family well and safe.
7:22 Ty: Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. It seems that, a lot of times, alcohol has an alcohol related consequences have an intersection with a really meaningful and important in shaping times in students lives. And it sounds like both of you have recognized the value of being with a student and helping them. Not necessarily indoor punishment, but rather take an opportunity to reflect and that seems to be some really meaningful and deep work that you're both doing.
7:55 Mindy: I would say that summarizes things well, Ty, thanks for putting that all together. And really, it really is, at the end of the day, you know, even if you have a stressful day, you can look back on the work that's being done and feel good about what's happening. And I think the difference that we're trying to make in the work that we do.
8:25 Ty: Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you both for the work that you've done and that you're currently doing. So let's jump right into it. So, when I think of drinking on JMU, I think of the impression that at JMU it's a party school, almost everyone drinks on the weekends. And I'm wondering, I hear that, but how true is it?
8:39 Mindy: Ty, I think that's a really good question. And I think that is a perception of college in general is that there are a lot of parties and a lot of drinking and that's something that most students engage in and definitely you'll hear people say like “all” students and use a term that would imply almost everybody is making this decision. And what we know on a national level is that definitely is not the case. When I looked up statistics from the American College Health Association, they have surveys they do each semester at campuses across the country called the National College Health Assessment. I was not necessarily surprised based on my position. But I thought that some statistics I found were interesting to share. These surveys happen once the semester is underway. And when asking students about how much they drink over the past two weeks, in Spring 2019, 45% of the students didn't drink over the past two weeks. And then the fall of the same academic year, that was 47.3. I think I might have just said Spring 2019. I meant Spring 2020. It was for last academic year. So both semesters were really similar in the past two weeks that 45 and 47.3% of students hadn’t been drinking. I don't know, does that feel like the high number to y’all?
10:17 Paige: What stands out to me is when we have conversations with students, and we ask them about their perceptions, and we might ask the question, for example, what percentage of students in the last two weeks do you think consumed no alcohol, they didn't drink at all. And students typically respond in single digit numbers. [Laughs.] Typically, their perception is like, oh, like maybe 5% would have said they didn't drink. Really, over the years, when I've asked those questions, the perception of non drinkers is very, very low. So students are often surprised when they see information that their peers are reporting in an anonymous way that 45% or so didn't consume. So it's a really interesting way for us to be thinking about what informs our perception, what influences our perception of how much students are drinking, and how often they're drinking. So it's a great way to have conversation with one another about our campus culture. And what we see, the other thing that comes to mind for me is, I do think, when anyone comes to JMU, they will find the behavior that they're looking for. So if I arrive at JMU, and I'm a drinker, and I want to find students who drink, I'm not going to have any trouble finding that. If I arrive at JMU, and I'm a non-drinker and I want to find a peer group that supports me as a non-drinker. I can find that too. So I think sometimes it comes down to looking for and putting energy into finding opportunities for ourselves.
12:10 Ty: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that statistic is, has nothing is... that statistic is not at all reflective of what students are saying at least and, and that leaves 55% of people who drink and I'm wondering, even if 55% of students are drinking, how much? Because sometimes it seems like the implication is of those students that are drinking, they're drinking a lot. Is this the case that some people aren't getting in trouble, and they can handle alcohol better than others? What do you all think?
12:43 Mindy: Well, certainly, as far as getting into trouble, that's going to be highly individual based on a person's individual experiences. But what the same surveys show is that the overwhelming majority of students are having four or fewer drinks when they are drinking, and this takes non-drinkers out of the equation. This is just for students who are drinking. So I think that last year, the two numbers from the Fall were 73.6, and then 74.6, in the Spring, for four or fewer drinks. So I think that that is a large amount of folks that are making the decision to drink, who are probably doing so in a definitely lower risk way that they are trying to maybe protect themselves or avoid certain situations, but still engage in that aspect of their college life.
13:45 Paige: And, you know, unfortunately, the low risk drinkers don't stand out. Right? Those aren't the individuals that we notice, when we're out. And when we're with friends, when we're celebrating, when we're at a party. What we notice are the individuals who've had more than four drinks, because their behavior is standing out from the majority. So it's kind of an innate, innate way that we focus on the behavior that is outside of the norm, then we talk about that because it stands out. So it can be really easy for us to start to shift and change what we see and what we experienced in it. We started to talk about it as if it is the norm when in fact it's not.
14:35 Ty: Yes, there's certainly that perception of everyone in the room is doing it and they're doing it to the extent that you hear about that you see on like JMU Barstool, that you see on Old Row, all of those pages that tend to spotlight, that sort of excessive outlier of people that are drinking a lot more than others. And when it comes, when it comes down to it, I think we've got the statistics that say, you know, people that-- the 55% of people that are drinking, 70-75% of them aren't drinking more than four drinks. So in terms of excess, that's really not reflective of a student body that's, that's drinking that excessively.
15:25 Mindy: Absolutely. And I think it goes back to a point that Paige made earlier, is it depends on the groups where we find ourselves. So if we're in a group where folks are engaged in high levels of drinking, then that's going to be what we see. And we might think that that's what the majority of folks are engaging in when they're drinking, when that might not be reality. So you can kind of imagine how our social groups and who we find ourselves around could definitely impact our perceptions. So I think that's a wonderful consideration for folks to think about.
16:05 Ty: Yeah, absolutely. And so let's talk a little bit about some of those groups that might drink four or more drinks. And this notion of tolerance. I think, when I was referencing JMU Barstool, some of those Instagram pages, I think the idea of a blackout comes to mind and something that those groups might experience. What do we know about blackouts? And what does that have to do with this idea of tolerance?
16:34 Mindy: Well, that's, that's a really important question. And they're somewhat interrelated. And yet, they're different. So in thinking about tolerance, for individuals, that's just how sensitive someone is to the effects of alcohol, on how it impacts them. People experience the effects of alcohol through what we call impairments in our field. So that could be something that happens physically, such as maybe getting a little off balance, or stumbling or something like that, or it could be a mental impairments such as the ability to not be able to make decisions as quickly or for inhibitions to be impacted. So everybody has a different tolerance level. Just before they even start drinking, we have an inherent tolerance level. And it differs person to person. So individuals, like if there were three individuals drinking for the first time, which we know could happen, like a small group of friends, and maybe they're having like a standard drink of beer or something like that. After one drink, say they're drinking like the same pacing, one person could be strongly, pretty significantly impaired with one drink if they have a lower tolerance. Whereas the other two people, they-- for one person, it might take more than one drink, but two, you know, two or so they're really starting to feel it. And the third person in this scenario could have many drinks. And they're still not feeling they're not feeling those, the impact of alcohol. And that would be someone who has a high tolerance naturally. So what's fascinating about tolerance, though, is that, while everybody has a threshold where they start out, it's something that can increase through high-risk drinking. And someone becomes less aware of how when tolerance increases, we're less aware of how alcohols impacting us. And that's where it gets tricky, because I think there's often this idea having a high tolerance is a really good thing. And, you know, it depends on how we view that. But essentially, someone's with a high tolerance is going to be less aware of how alcohol is impacting them, and it's going to take so much more to reach certain levels, which can be tricky for folks. And then something I just briefly mentioned was like the physical impairment and mental impairment piece. Tolerance levels increase significantly for physical impairments, but not nearly as significantly for mental impairments. So if you would ask someone like, “How do you know if you've had too much to drink?” Often the answers you would hear, fall kind of into the physical impairment realm. “Oh, I know when I start slurring my words.” I think often people aren't aware of the mental impairments that are happening. So high tolerance, there's still a lot of impairment at certain levels. It's just people are less aware that that's happening at the time.
19:57 Paige: Yeah, I think, very similar to what you said Mindy, like tolerance masks our impairment, it gives us false confidence. And that's, that's the best way that I feel like I can describe it. And we can perceive it as a positive thing. And in fact, it's giving us false confidence. So also kind of driving us to require more alcohol to experience the intentions or the expectations that we had of alcohol that we used to get at a lower amount. So I used to have two or three drinks, and I felt relaxed. And I felt a little more confident socially, and some euphoria, and fast forward. And now I'm requiring four or five drinks. Fast forward now requiring five or six drinks to feel those same feelings that I used to feel at a smaller amount. And so it really is about our sensitivity to alcohol changing, masking impairment, and giving us that sense of false confidence.
21:00 Ty: Hmm, yeah. So in a lot of ways, tolerance is something that's happening outside of our awareness. And that's constantly changing when we drink. And in one regard, for some people, it could be a positive thing, thinking that, “Oh, I'm able to drink more now.” But on the other side of that is by it not being in your awareness, you are starting to accumulate a lot more risk.
21:25 Paige: Yeah, I think that's a great way to summarize that time. And that leads well into what you mentioned earlier, which are blackouts. And so yes, the higher quantity that we consume, the more likely it is that we could experience a blackout: a period of time when we are intoxicated, where we're no longer storing memory. And I would say that that is, in my experience with students, that is the negative consequence that students most want to avoid. Even though unfortunately, it's often normalized as a part of drinking, so to say. And we see in music and in the media, and in television, oftentimes that it's normalized. And then it's validated. It's something that's often laughed at or made light of. In my experience over the years, one on one with students, it is something that they want to avoid. It's something that the experience has been frightening. There has been regret during those times of blackouts. And very often students want to create a plan for themselves when they choose to drink to minimize the risk of blacking out.
22:48 Mindy: Absolutely, I would say my experience has been the same in conversations with students and something... When we're thinking about blackouts, there're so many considerations, because it'd be nice if we hadn't exactly answer this many drinks in this period of time will definitely cause a blackout. But the fact is, it really does vary individual to individual. There isn't an exactly-- an exact formula that we could provide for folks to explain when this would happen. So we know kind of the two factors to consider our quantity, how much is someone drinking? And then how quickly are they drinking that and the combination of the two can certainly lead to a blackout or… Another consequence that may be related to alcohol that a student may not want to experience as well. So I think sometimes the quantity might not seem very high, but based on how quickly someone drinks that amount could definitely influence the experience that they have.
23:55 Paige: I like research from Duke University that continues to talk about how one of the largest predictors of experiencing a blackout is the rate of consumption. How quickly we consume and how quickly we can overwhelm the body with alcohol can be a big predictor.
24:16 Ty: Yeah. And I can imagine as someone who is not really paying attention to their tolerance, is not paying attention to the fact that you know, the physical sensations that I used to feel from drinking, I'm not getting it as much anymore, because it's been a couple months of regular drinking, I can imagine that you get to a point where you drink a lot, because you're trying to get back to that level that you're so accustomed to, that is kind of your intention, that's where you want to stay. And then you drink so quickly that you experience a blackout. And in a lot of ways, you know, you wake up the next day, and you have to reconstruct what the heck happened to you. Because you don't remember, your brain just shut off. And for some people, that's kind of a badge of honor, it's been validated. But for others, it's a really scary experience.
25:06 Mindy: Absolutely enough for someone who needs about a monitor, maybe that wasn't the case, initially. They could have had individuals around them, that after experiences, they were piecing together, that period of time. Their friends may have given them positive feedback about the time with that student, like, “Oh, my gosh, you were so funny last night! You did this and it was so great and I never had that much fun with you!” Maybe that's a little extreme, but sometimes these messages can happen as a result. Because when someone is experiencing a blackout, people around them don't realize that's happening. They just kind of process maybe having had a little bit too much to drink or being a little impaired. But others around that individual won’t know what is happening at that time. And I think you know, in considering students who are wanting to reflect on this, maybe wanting to avoid blackouts, there, there are strategies that they could use to hopefully decrease the risk of experiencing a blackout, because as we know, there's not an exact science to it without understanding the entire consideration for somebody. So we often call those like protective strategies, but just strategies works too, that folks can use. So you know, thinking about how quickly someone drinks, so someone could definitely say, you know, I don't want to have more than one drink in an hour. Maybe they're planning to drink for several hours. So they're wanting to make sure they're not drinking too quickly. Certainly, people might put a limit on how many drinks they want to have. Also, like things like having a glass of water in between drinks, or just something to mix it up so that it's not just alcohol. Having food in the system is a big one. Making sure there's some food to help slow down that absorption. What else are some protective strategies we can think of, for students who may want to avoid blackouts and other consequences from alcohol?
27:21 Paige: When I have a chance to meet one on one with students, and this comes up, I often ask them to think about what if anything was different on an occasion when they experience a blackout versus when they don't. So when they're given a space to really talk openly and honest and think about for themselves, many of the things that you just mentioned, Mindy, kind of come out. “I didn't eat much.” Or maybe “I skipped a meal, I didn't eat at all.” “I was playing drinking games, more than I do”, or “I played longer than I normally do. So I drank more. And I drank it pretty quickly.” Students will often talk about being in an environment where they're, they feel encouraged to keep up with others. So I was trying to keep up with my friends, I hadn't eaten. I was tired, I was stressed you're all of those individual things that we can experience throughout the day can change the outcome of a similar drinking experience from one night to the next. So it really is very unique. It's very individualized. It's very nuanced. And so when we get a chance to really be mindful and to be intentional, and to think about the experiences that we've had in the past, we can use that to inform the plan that we want to have for ourselves in the future, to minimize the risk of these things happening so we can gain some confidence with the plan that we have for ourselves.
28:53 Ty: Yeah, and I really see that as being the key since this is such a highly individualized thing. What's really important is paying attention to yourself and your experience and what's going on with you. There’re lots of strategies like Mindy listed to help with these particular things, but until you have that awareness of what's going
What's really important is paying attention to yourself and your experience and what's going on with you there are lots of strategies like Mindy listed too, to help with these particular things but until you have that awareness of what's going on, and have some motivation to say is this the experience I want is, what am I doing to ensure that this is what I want it to be that's, that's going to be an important starting place and thinking about tolerance, as we were talking about tolerance and how it masks awareness and it gives you this false confidence. It absolutely makes sense why sometimes these situations sneak up on people because they think they've got this under control, they're having experiences that they want normally, but it really just slips under your awareness so I think raising that awareness and knowing what's what's happening for you is key to ensuring that you know your, if you're going to drink your drink and how you want to.
29:57 Paige: Yeah I love that, “how you want to”, and really giving ourselves permission to think about, and to identify our individual intention. So when I choose to drink, what is my intention? What are my expectations? How do I want to benefit as a direct result of the alcohol that I want to consume? So really giving ourselves permission to think about that. And, and then to maybe even share that with others like I want to, I just want to feel relaxed, I want to feel euphoric. I want to feel more confident talking to you or being in a large group or talking and introducing myself and meeting friends, and I want them to experience me for who I am. And so it would be really really rare for me to meet with a student who would say their intention is to block out. But that might be what would occur, but very, very rarely is that the intention is that the expectation that they have of alcohol.
31:01 Mindy: Yeah, that was well put Paige. Thank you for sharing that and something that you had mentioned Ty, just to point out is I love thinking about that being like a personal experience what, what would I like to gain from using alcohol and trying to frame it like that because when we compare ourselves to others... That just doesn't usually work out too well, and trying to keep out with-- keep up with others, because of all the differences and how alcohol can affect folks that that could be a bad time.
31:34 Ty: Yeah, absolutely. It's not about us trying to get students to drink less and I think a lot of times people think the idea is that no one wants you to drink it's-- that's not the important part. The important part is paying attention to yourself and tolerance and blackouts are things that are happening in the background. They're ultimately functions of what our body is doing to cope with the decisions that we're making and the choices that we're choosing every time that we drink so… I think there's this misnomer that the emphasis is on we don't want people to blackout like, yeah, I mean that's not like Paige said that's not really what people are trying to do when these things happen. But our hope is that, you know, be aware of that tolerance, be aware that- how blackouts happen, how they can happen. How situations and factors kind of over time, come to a place like this. And yeah, just pay attention to yourself really, I think.
32:29 Paige: I think we also want students to know about the resources that are available for them. So, a program in The Well is called Reflections and I've been talking a lot during our time together today about when I meet one on one with students and that is a space that we provide. So Reflections is a wonderful program that allows students to come into The Well, to talk about their experience, their expectations with alcohol and to even receive some personalized feedback by completing a self evaluation. So I would encourage anyone listening or anyone who's concerned about a friend to learn more about Reflections, to visit our website and learn about it so that you can take advantage of the resource that's here for you.
33:15 Ty: Yes, that's awesome Paige. Thank you- Reflections is a wonderful confidential space for students that might be thinking about alcohol, cannabis, the use of any substance in their life. And I know students have reported having great experiences with that, so is that something that you think you could get some value from or you know a friend that could get something out of that, Reflections is there. So thank you both for your expertise, and your experiences as we've been talking and I've really enjoyed having this conversation. I think it's a really important thing to be aware of and to be thinking about and I know the JMU community has benefited from both of your work so thank you for that.
33:57 Mindy: Thank you, Ty.
34:01: Ty: Yeah let's, let's ask. I think one really important thing that we can do is some key takeaways. What are-- what's one thing that both of you would want someone to take away from the conversation that we just had?
34:12 Mindy: I think just how alcohol does affect individuals quite differently. And that's okay. And if individuals are making the decision to drink, to give thought about what they would like their experience to be with alcohol so they can hopefully frame their drinking experiences to be able to align with what they're hoping to have happen.
34:41 Paige: Yeah, it's complicated. And I feel like we don't talk about it enough. We don't talk about how complicated it is, we don't talk about the individual and the uniqueness that we all experience when we choose to drink and then our intentions can be very different, our experiences can be very different. It can be very nuanced and... So, I wish that we could have more open, honest conversation about how complicated it is. And I wish we could have more open, honest conversation about the role, and the perceptions that there are in our, in our campus community and in our lives. And I wish that we learned more about the empowering validating resources that are available for students on campus. We tend to, to not seek resources or to not seek opportunities to talk about our experiences with alcohol or cannabis until it's in reaction to something. [Paige laughs] until we've had a negative experience or until we've been arrested or we've been in a, kind of, caught for doing something we're not supposed to do and I so wish that I could wave a magic wand and I can switch that and then it can be proactive and that we can talk with students in a proactive, really empowering, validating way. And that's what Reflections is and I think that's the space that all three of us offer in The Well. So I would want students to take that away from this time.
36:14 Ty: Yeah, that's really well said on both of your parts it's... We just want people to listen to themselves and we want people to have experiences that they want to have. And ultimately, we want to empower them to be able to make and create those experiences for themselves. Awesome. So I'm wondering just generally what is some advice that you would give to your undergrad self right now?
36:42 Mindy: I think if I were considering my undergrad self, I would encourage myself to slow down, breathe, and try to take time to be in the moment. Yeah, I was just very busy, so many different, different things I think that would have been really great to consider.
37:06 Ty: Savor the time, absolutely.
37:10 Paige: I think about all of the wonderful work that's being done on JMU’s campus right now, when it comes to bystander intervention. That we as a campus community are really committed right now to helping students identify and respond in many different ways to behavior that is concerning to them. So, I, you know, when I think about going back to my undergrad self, if I had a chance to really sit down and talk with me, I would really want to be empowered to speak up more. When I saw friends engaging in behaviors that could lead to something regretted, that could lead to harm, that could lead to guilt. And I would want to have the skills and to have the confidence to be able to in an effective way intervene and prevent that harm from happening.
38:11 Ty: Yeah, now's the time to use your voice and figure out what your voice sounds like, so I think taking that risk and being willing to to speak up is, is it's a hard thing but it's something that you can grow a lot from. And this is a great place to do that too.
38:28 Paige: I love what you just said, I can summarize based on what you just said so if I could go back, I would say, use your voice. [Laughs]
38:36 Ty: Absolutely. I would say, and I like what you both said savoring moments and taking risks and using your voice. I would have taken myself, I wish I would have done more of myself. And I would say, just, really treasure the friendships and the relationships that you create. As I get older, I realized one of the most valuable things that I have in my life is those friendships and relationships with colleagues on a professional level but also personally. It's just that's something that just gives me the most joy in life is those experiences and friendships that I have now. So I would say treasure those and work on them and value them because they're super important. All right. Wow, I’m gonna wipe the tears from my eyes. Beautiful. That's really good. All right. Let's end it on a little bit of a fun note. So, what are each of your most, I'll call them irrational but just sort of things that really just get you going. You know, really you get worked up over what are your most irrational annoyances in life?
39:51 Paige: For me, I have two children, and they peel the label off everything. They peel the labels off water bottles. They peel the label off the chapstick tubes. They peel the labels off their toothpaste, off like the root beer bottle they're drinking. If it has a label and that label can be removed, my children will peel it off and it drives me bonkers! I just can't stand it. And I never even realized it until Ty said that he was going to ask this question in the podcast and I started to think and then I realized that was was my irrational annoyance. [Paige laughs] And I get worked up over it. So on one hand it's silly. And, you know, that's how I respond to it. it is what it is.
40:44 Ty: You don't like a little extra paper confetti in your house?
40:47 Paige: I don’t! Or on the table at restaurants. I feel like I'm constantly cleaning up the table at a restaurant because they peel the label off. Ahh! Yeah.
41:00 Mindy: I don't know if I feel as strongly about mine but something that's always stood out to me that just, I don't know that I think it is strange when people are wearing sandals with socks. And usually I see this happen like in the colder months and I'm just like, don't you want your whole foot covered like in a shoe? To each their own. Absolutely. Please wear what you want, do what you want, but for some reason that is just something that gets to me.
41:33 Paige: I agree with that one, Mindy.
41:35 Ty: People are fighting tooth and nail to wear those sandals not seasonally. I think they want it to be a year-round thing. Come out with the nicest thickest wool socks they can find to try and use them as an excuse to use them in the winter but props to them if they're gonna put in the work, they can reap the benefits I guess.
41:53 Paige: What about you, Ty?
41:56 Ty: I would say, I've always just hated the sensation, the feeling of like styrofoam and the sound that it makes when it, like, scrapes against the box. Oh, it makes me wanna run and hide, I don't like it a lot. There's like a physical aversion to it. It makes me cringe. So I mean, ugh, if you're ever looking to bother me, or harm me that's a great way to do it. Give you that one for free.
[Mindy laughs]
42:25 Ty: All right, Well Dukes, that's gonna wrap us up for today. Before you go, I want to personally thank you for spending some time listening to us here today. We appreciate you. Thanks for tuning in. Next week we're going to have a podcast, currently titled “Coping with Stress,” and it's going to highlight healthy ways of coping with stress and how stress physically manifests itself in the body. Where does stress show up? So get excited and tune in for that one. And if you liked what you heard here today, and you want more of it, follow us on social media at @JMUHealthCenter on Instagram, Facebook, I think we have Twitter. And hey, if you got any ideas or you felt moved to share something please reach out, you can DM us. Um, Jordan wonderfully, has put our email address in the description of this podcast so if you want to just connect with anyone. We would love to connect with you. Paige, Mindy, anything to plug, you guys?
43:24 Mindy: I think what you've already plugged is great.
43:28 Paige: I've already done my shameless plug for Reflections, so...
43:32 Mindy: I would do a plug for Reflections but Paige was just so good at it.
43:36 Ty: Yes. Awesome. All right, Dukes. Hope you have a wonderful day and remember, be well, Dukes.
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