Links
JMU Reflections https://www.jmu.edu/healthcenter/alcohol-other-drugs-updated/Reflections.shtml
Transcript
0:01 Intro: Hi there, welcome to Well Dukes, brought to you by the Well. Each week, you’ll hear conversations from a variety of JMU staff and students that we hope challenge what you know, think, or do in regard to your own health and helps you be Well Dukes.
0:23 Jordan: Hey there, everyone, welcome to another episode of the Well Dukes podcast. I’m Jordan.
0:29: Mikayla: And I’m Mikayla!
0:31 Jordan: And it’s March, we’ve got St. Patrick’s Day happening, the weather’s getting warmer. And with those, we know about this time of year we start to see drinking behaviors picking up again. So we want to talk about that.
0:45 Mikayla: Yes, so Ty and Brooke are back for another episode. This time, they’re talking more about belongingness, and the role that alcohol plays in that.
0:54 Jordan: Yeah. They share their experiences of being a Duke and finding ways to belong, how relationships and friendships begin or end due to alcohol, the sense of obligation of drinking with peers, and their opinion on the JMU drinking culture.
1:09 Mikayla: Alright, let’s get started.
[Musical Interlude]
1:15 Ty: Alright, hello! My name is Ty Greenough. I am a GA here at The Well with the alcohol and other drug prevention unit here that we have. And I have a special guest with me today. Brooke, would you like to introduce yourself?
1:29 Brooke: Yeah, hi! My name is Brooke, I am a senior Health Science major with a concentration in public health education, and I’ve been a part of the Well Dukes [Well Peers] for three years now.
1:41 Ty: Awesome. And we're super excited to have Brooke on here. And I asked Brooke to come on here, because I'm also a former JMU student. And we wanted to maybe have a little bit of a conversation around alcohol and how it sort of intersects with belongingness. And when I say belongingness, I'm speaking specifically to the sense of being welcomed, but also feeling like you're wanted and you're comfortable in a space. And I read an interesting study that is actually out of the UK. But they were talking a little bit about some of the conditions with binge drinking at this age, but also just kind of what it looks like culturally. And a few interesting points about that. So I wanted to take some time to discuss how that might impact us here at JMU. And where in our experiences, we might have seen that alcohol intersects with belonging and things like that. So in order to kick this off, let's start with a pretty broad question. So I would say, Brooke, if you'd like to start, in your experience, what have you noticed about how alcohol has been involved in the social experience here at JMU, or just on college campuses broadly?
2:56 Brooke: So with my experience, I did come to JMU as a freshman knowing no one on campus. And so my priority was definitely to make friendships and just feel that sense of belonging, like you were talking about, Ty. And I did realize pretty soon that I think making friendships in like a drinking environment was a lot quicker, I think. And I felt like it was not maybe as real, though, and as deep as I like kind of wanted them to be. So for, maybe for the night, I felt like I belonged or was included in a friend group. But after that, I felt like I didn't really have as much in common with those people that I was meeting. And so I started seeking out some different organizations that weren’t as focused on drinking or doing that with their free time. And so I think that a lot of it has to do just with the clubs that you join. And the friends that you make. I think that like I said, it's easier, kind of, to make friends that are quick and you can just go and have fun with, but my most meaningful and deep friendships haven't come out of going out and drinking but of spending more quality time doing different things that I've enjoyed.
4:24 Ty: Yeah, that's really well said, I've had a similar experience. I was in a single freshman year and didn't really know anyone. And I'd agree I'd say some of my earlier friendships, it just felt like alcohol was a common thing that we could share. When in reality, we're just sitting there exchanging icebreakers. And it's like, “What's your major? Where are you from? Alright, that's about all the questions that I have for you.” So it's really easy to share that experience. And especially when you don't have any friends and you don't feel like you have a rootedness in the community around you. For my, in my experience, I felt like that was just the easy in. But like you said over time, it seems like that kind of fell away for you. When did you notice that shift in your friendships here?
5:11 Brooke: I think I honestly noticed that shift pretty early on because I did experience just, like, being homesick and kind of just wanting to find more of my identity. And I feel blessed that, pretty early on, I was kind of interested in looking for different places to meet friends and different places that made me kind of grow more as a person. So yeah, I would say it was within the first month really, for me, but I know that that isn't always as that's pretty quick as of what I've seen in other people.
5:49 Ty: Yeah, it takes a little time. We've really got a challenge when you get here. It's like, “I got to make some friends or I'm going to be real lonely.” And for some people, that's the first day and then for other people, it takes years. So having that mediator initially was-- kind of took a little bit for you to find those friends that have lasted and stuck around. How about other people? How would you imagine that other people that you've known, might see this a little bit different?
6:19 Brooke: Um, I think that everyone, like you kind of said, wants to feel a sense of belonging. And so, in any way they can really do that, I think that they're going to try and look for things that they enjoy and that they like. But one thing that I've seen is that a lot of clubs, even if they're centered around something else, not drinking related, that is a lot of times what they'll end up doing on the weekends. And so once they're already friends with those people, they might kind of just be sucked into doing that, because they do want to belong, and they want to be accepted by those people fully. And so if that's part of their life, then they're just going to start doing that, even if they don't really want to. And I, I've talked to people that have said that they don't even really want to do that on the weekends, but it's all that their friends are doing.
7:13 Ty: Hmm. Yeah, no, that's a really great point. It comes down to... I am part of this organization and we might have this in common, but when we're not doing that, it seems like to fit in here, I still have to drink. Yeah, even though I don't want to. That sort of thing. Yeah, and that was a similar theme that I found in the article as well, it was saying that, as young people and even culturally, we have a hard time socializing, or imagining a situation in which we can be social. without alcohol there. They're very paired. And when I think forit, as well, in terms of like, well obviously, this is pre-COVID... But in terms of like mixers, and like cocktail hours and happy hours where people go out for a drink after work. It's super common. And it almost seems like a learned habit, in a sense as well. But in order to climb a social ladder, or build out a social network, you kind of have to be there. Right? And if other people are drinking, then that's the culture at that point. So it extends a little bit beyond college as well. But it seems like it could start in college too. So would you say overall, this is a very like pinned question. And obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, but is drinking important to the JMU experience?
8:40 Brooke: I would say... Um, I think that as a culture, we think that we assimilate college to drinking, but I don't necessarily think that it is important to the JMU experience, per se. Like, I think that community is important and we attach that with drinking often but my experience at JMU, the best ones have not involved drinking and they've involved like getting to know people on deeper levels and getting outside even and like doing hiking or going away on trips together or just doing other activities. I guess that I've gotten to grow with those people more so I think yeah, it's not necessarily for me. I haven't seen it be like a centerpiece of my JMU experience.
9:42 Ty: Yeah, that's super well said it's, I would agree in terms of the meaning and a meaningful part of what it means to be at Duke to me, is that it's those deep friendships. It seems like this community just really cares a lot about each other and we are very social and drinking seems to be a thing that you see. But it definitely does not define the really great parts about this campus. But it certainly, and all colleges have that reputation coming in, is like, “Oh, this is just where people get plastered. And this is where they just like, have a time in their lives.” And, and to an extent that happens, it doesn't happen with everyone. And it definitely doesn't define the whole experience, because it's-- so I think it would be wrong to deny that it doesn't happen. But I think, like you said, the meaningful parts of the friends that you make later on, is really deepened through a shared passion for something, or a shared purpose, service, major, anything like that. So no, I would agree. I think it's there. But it's certainly not the most important piece. [Brooke: Yeah.] So I'm curious, in your experience, did you see a change? Because you're a senior Now, did you see a change from when you were a freshman? Now to just kind of how drinking evolved for you, in terms of your life? Where you were in college? Any of that?
11:09 Brooke: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think that I just kind of made drinking a lot bigger part of my life. When I was younger, it was kind of like, I was doing something that I shouldn't be doing as much, or it was very centered around, like, binge drinking. But I think that after turning 21, having more responsibilities with a job or with higher level classes, or just things that I'm more held accountable for, I'm not just going to go out and totally do something that could ruin those, those things. And so I think that, yeah, just growing in, the things that are important to me, and the things that I'm seeing in my future have definitely changed. I think being a freshman, those things seemed very far off, and all I could think about was college. And I was, yeah.
12:08 Ty: Yeah, cuz you, you'd mentioned earlier, that you came to sort of shape your identity to and figure out who you were as a person. And it seems like as you started to find that and find those friends, the priority is not just partying or anything anymore. It's that common purpose that stood out to you, right? Yeah, I would, I would agree, I think, well, at least for me, let me say that first, it was I felt a shift certainly, because initially, I would say alcohol became a social crutch for myself. Being in a single and not being the most extroverted person in the world, it was a common piece to be like, Alright, we're drinking buddies, but does it go beyond that? And as you start to discover those common interests, but also those deeper purposes, and reveal more of yourself to somebody else, sometimes a drinking buddy, you're like, “Oh, I see potential in this person. Like, I'll have this friend until senior year.” And that just doesn't become the case. Because really, you're sort of delaying the inevitable, what it feels like sometimes. But I would say once I had my group of friends, the amount that I drank, and I would honestly say the reasons that I drank were much different.
13:26 Brooke: Yeah, absolutely. I think it, for me, just became more of really a social thing. Instead of like, the, just the point of why we were hanging out there was usually just to spend time together. And then maybe sometimes drinking is like a part of it, but it's not the centerpiece.
13:48 Ty: Yeah, no, that's really well said. I think at a certain point, it's, it's not about drinking anymore. The activity is not the only reason you're there. It's caring about the people. And being with those people, which I think is a good challenge for anyone listening. If you are thinking about your friendships right now. And you only hang out just to drink, then I think you should really ask yourself like, “What am I really getting out of this friendship with this person? And, and why am I drinking?” You know, because it's, it'll be important to discover that for yourself. And I think it also leaches into who you are as a person and your relationships too. There's an element of vulnerability that that you avoid when you drink and you make that the focal point. At least in my experience, I discovered that and I've certainly seen other people who, excuse me, I've certainly seen other people who hang out with one another. And it seems like the only activity is drinking and I, and I'm always curious about the depth that's there with that person. Like come pick you up if you got a flat tire? You know, what does that relationship mean, or what maybe needs to be said. So just as a challenge to people listening. Awesome. So you talked a little bit about binge drinking, and I want to center on that for a little bit. Because drinking in college, culturally, has become synonymous with getting drunk, drinking in excess. What can you imagine is the impact of an expectation like that on people?
15:30 Brooke: So I think the impact of that type of expectation is just kind of this cycle, because I think you come into college just expecting that to be like this huge part of your experience. And so perception kind of becomes reality, and you kind of just get stuck in that same cycle that maybe you saw, like your older siblings get into or something. And I think that it really took me like, being 21. And not so being perfect at it. But the reason I'm drinking is not to binge drink, like I had mentioned before, it really is just as a social part as like a side part kind of, of why I'm hanging out with my friends, most of the time. And I think it's really when we feel we can be ourselves. And I think like, like you had said, it was kind of an escape like a crutch. But it's really not used as that anymore. So I think that it can be detrimental when we never get out of that cycle. But hopefully, growing up and getting into the older years, you start to, you know, just not see it as really like the main point of your friendships.
16:52 Ty: Yeah, no, I'd agree. I think coming in, young and impressionable, you see all the people ahead of you drinking. But you probably don't really understand, at least I didn't understand, what it meant to be drinking regularly, and balancing that in your own life. Because for everyone, some people have predispositions to addiction. So that's a whole nother monster. But just in terms of, you know, a person that might not struggle with that... Realizing that I'm going to have to find some sort of balance for this, because there's this fuzzy, not distinct expectation of “people drink here, that's just what you do.” And then you get here and you're like, that's not always the case, one and two, we, as Dukes start to define the culture as we're there. And as we're in it, and we have the ability to make those decisions and figure out what alcohol really means to us. Because for everyone, it's a different balance. And like you said, it almost takes a heart to heart to realize, like my reasons are different now. And, and also, let's be real, there's some you have to kind of go through some bad experiences, sometimes to figure out those boundaries for yourself. It's not perfect.
18:05 Brooke: Right, right.
18:08 Ty: So let's, as we're wrapping up here, let's take some time to talk a little bit about to the person who, like you described might be in a club or an organization or in a friend group where they're noticing that social weekends, occurrences revolve around alcohol, what would you say to a person that's in that position?
18:34 Brooke: I would say it's not, I don't think that the alcohol is necessarily bad. But try and hang out with those people outside of the drinking culture. And you'd be like, go for a hike with them or get lunch or something and see if those people are really people that you want to be around. And maybe you can even make plans, I think, to do some sober activities, a lot of clubs, have socials. And in the clubs that I'm in. I've even talked to some of the socials about doing or just proposing more sober activities like going on a hike or doing like, pumpkin carving during Halloween, or something like that. And just making those kind of a part of the social time that you guys hang out outside of whatever that club specifically is.
19:28 Ty: Yeah, I think that intentional focus on “we're going to do stuff that's fun, and we're not going to drink” is super important. And I want to add as well that it feels like sometimes that, if you don't drink in those settings, that you're going to be outcasts for that reason, or people are just going to question why and and bother you and in my experience, people that do choose not to drink and they stick to their plan. People tend to be pretty accepting.
19:58 Brooke: That was my experience, too. I kind of took a break from drinking when I was still underage until I became of age and I, I definitely, no one really ever made me feel like I needed to be drinking, I was able to be like a driver or just still have fun and be with them, but not necessarily participating in that kind of behavior. And I really think that a lot of times I would get, “I respect that a lot.” I think that I kind of gained some trust with them and in the deeper areas too, of knowing that I could be there for them, or I was always going to be able to be called if someone was not feeling well or had had something happen in like a drinking environment.
20:50 Ty: Yeah, that's awesome. You put yourself in a position to be a model for people that maybe are considering this on their own, and they need a little bit of outside help from friends. And it's definitely doable. And like Brooke said, you can get respect from your friends for doing that. And people still treat you decently. It's achievable. Awesome. Brooke, any last things that you would like to add?
21:20 Brooke: I don’t really think so, think that’s it.
21:22 Ty: Alright, the last thing I'll say is if this is something that's been on your mind, surrounding alcohol, cannabis, any other substance, we actually have a space here currently at The Well that's called Reflections. And it's a program. It's like a one or two time ordeal. And it's basically just a conversation with someone like me, I actually am a Reflections facilitator, like myself or another facilitator. And you just take a little bit of time, and you can talk about how alcohol or cannabis or any other substance fits into your life. There's no right or wrong answer. It's just a space to really explore what it is, some motivations around it, what you want it to be, really anything. So if that's useful for anyone, feel free to visit the JMU website and look up Reflections. We'd love to chat with you. Alright, everyone, thanks for listening. Thank you to Brooke for taking some time today. You've been a joy. Appreciate you.
22:21 Brooke: Thank you, this was great.
[Musical Interlude]
22:28 Jordan: Wow, what a great conversation to listen to. I think Ty and Brooke made some excellent points. And I think it's also great to have them talk about this topic, because it's not a new concept. As Ty said, alcohol and social interactions going together has been a part of the college experience for so many people for years and decades. Right? This isn't a new thing. Mikayla, you're a little closer to the college age students than I am. So when you listen to this conversation, did any parts of it resonate with you or, you know, remind you of your experience and undergrad?
23:07 Mikayla: Yeah, so as I was listening to this, I really connected with what Brooke was saying in terms of feeling that you need to have that connection with other students and kind of just feeling like, if I do this, then I'll easily be able to make some friends and join this group. But my situation was a little bit different. So I am local, I grew up in this area. So I was actually a commuter student living at home and commuting back and forth to campus. So for me, it was a little bit easier to, I don’t know if escape is the word I want to use, but kind of to escape the alcohol scene because I wasn't going to parties, I wasn't going to bars, that just wasn't what I was a part of For me my experience with a lot more like going to class, going to work, and going home. But I will say what Brooke said made a lot of sense in terms of wanting to have connection with other people. And how do you do that when the common denominator only seems to be alcohol. So I'll say my experience slightly aligns with what they're talking about, even though I wasn't directly in that scene. But yeah, I can definitely resonate with the longing for connection on campus. Definitely.
24:20 Jordan: Thanks for sharing. I think they also made some really great points and I really support Ty’s, you know, kind of reflection for people that are maybe wanting to challenge some of the relationships that they've had, or maybe relationships that they've developed over the few years being here at college, and especially the role that alcohol has played in those relationships. I can say that I still have friends that I made in undergrad. And we're still friends today, you know, 10 years later, but Ty was right that you know those are the friendships and the relationships that we had more in common outside of just being drinking buddies, and these are the friends that, you know, I trust them outside of like drinking environment that they would be there for me and help me out, you know. when I need to. And, and those are the connections, I think that people value more. And I think, like I said, you and I, Mikayla, we're out of college, we're a little more adults now. And life does change. I appreciate how they talked about even just going from first year to senior year into grad school, right? And how the role of alcohol and relationship with that changes and, and for us, it has continued to change, right? Like our experiences with alcohol and drinking with people is much more on a social level where it is…
25:51 Mikayla: It can still be a part of the picture without being the main focus. [Jordan: Yeah] That makes-- that kind of align with what you're going with?
25:57 Jordan: Yeah, very well said. So Mikayla, what are some resources for our listeners that maybe after hearing this episode have thought that yeah, you know, they definitely still want to try to find connections and, and create relationships with other peers that doesn't revolve around alcohol?
26:18 Mikayla: Yeah, that's a great question. So from my personal experience, something that I was involved with on campus as a student was the Alternative Break program or community service learning upstairs, second floor of the Student Success Center. Those are opportunities that you get to work with students that maybe you don't know, or you can join a group of friends that you already have, and do a weekend break or a fall break. Being able to just go and serve your community in a space where you're fostering those meaningful connections, you're doing something that you all genuinely care about, and substances aren’t a part of that. So that was a really meaningful experience for me, and then being able to be on the flip side of it as a faculty staff member, collaborating with those folks in community service learning, it's just cool to see students be able to work together and develop friendships in a different way. And I'll also say this, a lot of the friendships I made in undergrad came from the workplace. I worked at conference services, and I worked at the JMU athletic ticket office. So the students that I got to work with in those spaces, also became friends of mine. And that wasn't a relationship built on alcohol. However, it wasn't at a place where we couldn't go out and get a drink together. But there's just other ways to make friendships and lasting connections that alcohol doesn't have to be the reason why you get together.
27:33 Jordan: Yeah, great, great options there. So we also just want to point out too, if you are wanting to talk to someone about the role alcohol and other substances, even cannabis, is playing in your life, there is a service for JMU students called Reflections that we do here out of the well. Ty mentioned he is one of the facilitators. It is a free service. It's confidential for students, and you can make an appointment online. We'll have that information in our episode description. And, as always, if you want to get involved follow us on Instagram at @JMUWellDukes, you can also shoot us an email at welldukes@jmu.edu and if you're listening to this for HTH 100, your passcode is “green.” Like the color. Remember, be well, Dukes.