All right, My next guest wears many many hats. Comedian, singer, songwriter, sketchwriter, filmmaker award winner, and she's passionate about sharing stories that reflect the African experience beyond the stereotypes. Born in the DRC, raised in South Africa, has spent time in Los Angeles
and now it's back here. Her work is really a candid and very very funny look at identity belonging the African diaspora experience, and her solo musical stand up show Bad African recently won the Standard Bank Ofation Award at the National Arts Festival in Makanda. I am thrilled to welcome Selene Chica two Weekend Breakfast.
Hello, Hello, thank you so much.
I've wanted to have you on the show for so long, and in fact, I think my friend Nina said.
You've got to get her on. You've got to get her on so long. So there we are.
She's here.
Nina.
You've got such a fascinating background, interested by how we end up all over the world as Africans and what that means, and how we moved through parts of the world as African people, particularly as African women born in the day, I see, yeah, right, okay, And at what point did you leave?
I left. I was the youngest, so I was a baby when we left. I only went back for about a year when I was between thirteen and fourteen, and then I would go back because I made friends and I'd go back on holidays. But I am South African. I grew up here. I grew up in Johannesburg, right, okay, yeah, so that is my story. I'm the last born of four, so yeah. My siblings have more of an experience of you know, being children and being young in Congo. Yeah, I only have the I guess the teenage experience.
Right yeah.
Yeah.
And then in terms of you as a as a young person growing up in joe Burg, what was your what what was your thing?
What was it? Were you always writing? Performing?
Yes? But I was. I grew up quite a shy kid. So yeah, so I didn't like acting. Was not in the realm of possibility for me. I wasn't. I was like the drama kids are outgoing kids, not me. But I really loved dancing. That was the first creative thing I really enjoyed. And then I started singing and then writing, So yeah, it came to me quite late, and it was only in high school, like in my trick, that I thought I really have enjoyed this drama thing. I
think I wanted, I want to act. But yeah, but then you know, the parents worked very hard sent me to that school. Yeah, you're gonna have to get a real degree first, please, So yeah, So then I got the engineering degree. It was very hard not to drive out eventually.
Hey, like when you're when you're doing that, when you're doing the engineering degree, you're just not.
In the first two years, Yes, I think I was in my like.
Apart from the fear of your black parents.
Mostly the fear of the black parents, I must say, and my older siblings being like humbling me, like I don't know who you think you are, but we all have to do this, so you know that's I respect that. But I think I did. I do really enjoy I did enjoy science in school, so you know, there was a part of me that did find the joy in engineering. And then by the time after second year, I'd threatened to, you know, drop out so many times that I was like,
I'm halfway, I might as well see it through. And the exchange was that then I could then they would support me and going to film school. So yeah, it was kind of like we need this so that we feel better about like what the job that we did for our kids, and then you can do what you want.
So I'm fascinated by the comedy.
I think comedy is such an interesting, such an interesting thing for me because the end product, the end product of the comedy is the laughter. Yeah, but there's so much psychology. Yeah, it's for that point, Like an awful lot of the commit I've interviewed many comedians in my time.
An awful lot of them are miserable.
But oh but by their own admission, like manic depress it, you know, like dealing with some serious mental health staff. Yeah, don't really like people a lot and criticism because I relate quite hard to a lot of that. But just this, it's such a it's such a juxtaposition of the end result being that you are bringing joy and laughter to another human being, but the process to.
Get Yeah, And I think that's because of it's the observation, you know, Like I think anyone who you know is a comedian is observing society and is noticing things so that we can make fun of them. And you know, there's a downside to noticing things is that you you're affected by them, like oh that's you know, that's really horrible that's happening, or that that happens. How can I feel better about it, you know, is to find the
irony in it and all that. But yeah, it is very interesting about comedians and I uh, you know, I'm not beating the stereotypes. There definitely also struggle with mental health, and yeah, it's mostly from that. And I think particularly with like satire, when you're you know, you're poking fun at you know, people in power and all that, that is just about paying attention and that's not fun. I'm almost like, know what's going on right.
Right in terms of that, like who who were you?
Who were you looking at when you were kind of coming up as inform.
Or you know. Yeah, I think in terms of my comedy journey is quite long. But I think the first thing I ever watched was Chewing Gum by Mikaela Cole where I really felt represented for the first time. Yeah, it was a Netflix show and I think seeing someone who was of African descent as well starring in a comedy and it was so silly and her mom looked like it is Yeah, and that was it was Oh my gosh, I'd never thought of screenwriting. I'd never thought
of writing comedy at all. And then from there there was Tina Fey as well with Unbreakable Commishiment, and that was there was a whole episode that was just a mockumentary, and I think that was when it really clicked for me, like, oh, this is the kind of comedy I want to do. Yeah, And so yeah, I did a lot of little satirical
like sketches. Yeah, and it's all from before. It was just like poking fun of gender norms, you know, Like I did a sketch called Stank Like a Man that was just like a masculinity affirming body wash that was just kind of making fun about why do we need to have like cool sport rush, you know, like as a as a flavor profile for men's body wash. Yeah, So it was just like fun to kind of poke
fun at things like that. And yeah, and then stand up was kind of the last thing for me to think, Oh, Okay, I think that's something I want to try as well. So it's a different form of comedic storytelling, right, So.
Yeah, talk to me about the stand up because again that that is a that is an area of performance that makes me sweat.
I do understand.
It's so remarkable to me. I think there's anything I'd rather do. And I consider myself to be quite a funny person. But she said modestly, But that's not it. It's not about are you a funny persons? Again, the psychology behind it, and the psychology of standing on stage and doing one of the hardest things on earth to make another connect with somebody in a way that what you're saying connects with something relatable, the observation thing, which then forces them to force them.
To a lot like that. There's so much pressure in that.
Yeah, there is, for sure, it is. It is scary, and in the end of time, I think that's not that scary. Five minutes before I'm on stage, I think, oh my gosh, my gosh, am I doing this? Why I'm doing this? One of this could go so terribly every single time that I don't know that's ever going to go away because it could go terribly, you know it. Really, it's always definitely, Yeah, it's part of like we call it dying on stage. Yeah, part of it is is
just part of the job. Sometimes you will be haunted by it four days to come and you won't want to leave the house. And then eventually you'll think, Okay, well, you know I'm still funny. Technically, hopefully someone will.
I'm still I wonder to what degree you like, what's the what's.
The turnaround time from a bad show?
Yeah, the hope. Actually the cure for that is to just do another show, to just go go deserving us.
Yeah, I feel sick talking about that's that's how much I promise you.
It's like I'm about that.
It's like you said to me, well in five minutes time, you're going to go on before I need to talk myself off the ledge because it's fine.
I don't have to do this.
This is where I am. It's all right.
Yeah, yeah, And I think that, you know, people laugh for so many different reasons. It's not always like haha, that's funny. You know. Sometimes you just fully understand that experience and so that's why you laugh. And sometimes you like the person that's why you laugh. You know. There's there's so many reasons that someone would laugh. Sometimes they might find something funny, but they're here with someone and they worried about what they're going to think, and you know,
there's there's so many aspects to it. So I think it's just you don't know what you're going to get. Yeah, and there's a little bit of fun in the risk. I think, I just you know, let's try it out. Might work out, might not. But I think just telling a story, you know, if you find the joy in telling a story and sharing a thought perspective. I think when I started treating open mics as like a feedback session, you know, I'm going to try a new joke, I
have no idea if it's gonna work. Okay, they laughed at that part and not at that part. Okay, let me go home and cut out the other one and change this.
And to what extent does your audience determine? To what extent does your does your audience determine where you.
Explore your work further?
I think that is I guess what I want to say. What the audience will tell me with laughing or not laughing, is like they relate to this or they don't.
Relate to this African context.
That's gonna change, depending yes, depending on where.
Yeah, definitely for sure. So I think that's why it's a numbers game. It's just you go do all these open mics, you go to you know, perform all these shows so you get a good perspective of Okay, seven different audiences laughed at that part. None of them laughed at this part. Okay, let's maybe reconsider. So I think, you know, like I would say that artists and comedians and stuff, we reflect society. You know, we reflect where
we're at. So if I'm experiencing something in the last year or two and I want to talk about the chances that someone else has experienced it as well, and it's just about finding the best way to tell the story and making sure that the joker is on the right person, you know, the jokers. Yeah, but there's also just an art to the performance of emphasizing a particular word or syllable or you know, saying things in a
particular way. There's so many nuancewers to it. So I think there's always this like endless way of improving your set that Yeah, it can be a really fun experience.
I want to go back to what you just said there to make sure the joke is on the right person. That's another This is Another conversation I love having with comedians is around.
What's okay, what's not okay?
How How I look at stuff that I laughed at and found funny fifteen years ago, and.
I'm like, yeah, that's not okay. Yes, yeah, it makes me uncomfortable.
Like there's some early kind of Ricky Gervat's stuff that I'm like, actually agree with that and find that funny.
I find that ridiculous or whatever, and I think that's okay.
I think it's okay to be self reflective in what is you know, and you grow and you change and things become but where do you how how has your what's your barometer?
Hmmm? I think that okay. Well, humor changes over time, right, and that's okay, That's that's normal. And you know, things jokes I'm making today are just not going to be that funny in fifteen years, right. So I think it's just about adapting and yeah, understanding that we have different conversations as society, so you know, we're just more aware
of certain issues. So there was even a joke I had written about Congo, you know, just about like electricity in Congo versus South Africa, you know, and when you know, more people started finding out about, you know, the situation in Congo, I thought I had to reconsider how I was telling this joke so I could make sure that the nuance was there, you know that It's like, oh, now I'm no longer talking about a country that like
no one knows anything about. Yeah, more, it's not just thing that me and my family and my community know. A lot more people are understanding, so the tendency will be a bit more compassionate. It won't be like, ah, this random country in Africa as oh, no, I know
what's happening. I read a news story, you know, so yeah, I need to be just a lot more careful about how I tell that story so that I I allow them to feel safe enough to laugh, you know, as opposed to yeah, but how I frame the story so that they understand that I'm not I know what I'm
making fun of, and it's not Congolese people or you know. Yeah, so it's it's Yeah, making sure the joke is on the right person is always just about And that's how that's the basis of satire is is that it's the powerful people that you need to be making fun of. You know, if you're if you're comparing to population groups, the more powerful one is the one that the joke needs to land on, right, because not the vulnerable community, because then that's just bullying, right, you see?
And this is I was there was some debate around an issue, an issue to do with I can't even know who it was, had told a joke. I don't want to say a trans joke. It wasn't a trans joke. It was it was a joke in which trans people were spoken about, and and and the comedian and I can't remember who it was. Well, just because you're offender doesn't mean that it's not still funny. It's like, but what you're doing there is you are?
You are?
The first of all was it wasn't funny, But the second of all, like you are, you are making a marginalized group and you're you're making the joke about their their life experience.
I can't find that funny.
I can't. I don't think that's okay. I don't think that's a I'm not saying that there can't be joke jokes about being chance. That can't be funny. That isn't one of them. Yes, right, and and like you say, it's all about nuanced, right, And I'm fining trance because this was the thing, but I mean it could be anything, race, gender, yes, whatever the story may be.
Yeah, it is. And especially if you are not in that pretty that community, it's you have to be really very careful. Yeah, exactly. They are at least one straight comedian who made a really good trance joke because it wasn't about the person being trans. It was like the joke landed at the right place. And a lot of times I find people laugh out of relief because when he starts talking about it, they tense up. They're like, oh, no, what is the straight man gonna say about a trans person?
And then he makes the joke lands at the right place, and everyone's just like kind of exhaled. Right, So yeah, it's just about nuance. It's just if people can see that, you see the humanity in this in this group, you understand the struggle, and you know, you know that's you're you're not speaking against them, You're not you're not encouraging people to, you know, perpetuate stereotypes about them.
Exactly. Tell me about your time in Los Angeles.
Right, I had a great time. Let's say I did. It was like weird, but just about two years. Yeah. So I did a very truncated one year acting for film course and then where did you say, I stayed in Burbank? Yeah, yeah, so and then I stayed for a year and it was it was really good. I think that. I it was obviously my first time studying something I intended on using, so that was something new. And then I was like, oh, this is a new feeling.
I want to do my own work. And then it was do you have me like a very interesting experience with you know, American stereotypes of African people. So I think that so that's why I started my web series about those encounters that I had. There were it was pretty sad sometimes, I think hearing you know, like I
was in it. I was getting my hairs done and the hair dresser's daughter was there just like helping to undo my hair, and she was asking me these questions were so ignorant about South Africa, like like the basic things that you know ten years like coming to America kind of humor, and you know, that was just very I thought, oh, is this the education system here? Like you don't know that we also have music. It was it was Wow, it really was And I was like, am I in a sketch right now? You're like, is
this happening to me? So I think it was definitely a source of inspiration for, you know, a series to write.
But what did you like about LA? What did you what did you enjoy?
I like that. I guess my identity wasn't so much in question, like in terms of like everyone is from somewhere, and I think that that was I enjoyed that is that everyone has like a different story and everyone just comes here to just you know, figure out what they want. And I really really enjoyed that. So yeah, it was nice to just be It was definitely a big filmmaking community, a big independent filmmaking community, so people are just keen to hop onto projects and help out and that was
that was very very cool. So I think when I put out my web series, just a lot of people somehow found me on the Internet and then just were like, Hey, do you want I can take photos for you on your on your next shoot. I can do this, I can do that. And it was a really great experience of just finding the right people and them sending me opportunities and sending me stuff. So it just felt very supportive.
Yeah.
Yeah, I must talk about the Standard Bank Ovation Award for Bad African, which was the National Arts Festival.
Did you did you think you were going to win? Honestly?
Yeah, my director thought I was gonna win. Okay, I'll say that. Sophie Jones, she's one.
Yes, I love Sophie.
It was so wonderful, wonderful working with her, and she has faith in me, and I really appreciate it because I think that really kept me going through this whole process. There were definitely times of writing the show that I thought, I mean, I know what I was trying to say, I don't know how I'm going to say it, and yeah, but I think it was. It did mean a lot to be acknowledged, and yeah, it did was. It was quite something.
So what is how does it help you? I don't mean that in a cynical way, but how does it help you?
Right? It's it's validation, you know, it's just okay, cool, I'm on the right track.
You know.
Even though the show in my eyes isn't perfect, it isn't exactly where I wanted to be. They see what I was saying and they like hopped on board and they said yes, and that that's just a great feeling, you know that it's Yeah, it was quite a journey to get it to this place. So it was just affirming that what it is that I want to say through the show, it's it's hitting and yeah, and that was that was really wonderful, especially because my story has
a very pan African message. Yeah, and and yeah, and I think that it could be validating to anyone really in the global South and anyone in the diaspora. So it just felt it's great to be recognized. I think assib.
By Selin chickens in the studio with us as our profile guests this morning. What are you enjoying entertainment wise, whether it be musically, whether it be television, whether it be film. What is tickling your fancy at the moment?
Hmmm, film, film, film, I really okay, it's not at the moment, but I really did enjoy Centers. I watched The Studio as well on Apple TV. That was absolutely insane.
The studio.
The Studio. Yeah, it's a it's like a satire show by Seth Rogen about like oh yeah, about I guess the process of getting things made like a big studio, a big commercial studio.
What about this? The other day was saying there was a role on the floor fun.
Really it is such good satire. It is just incredible. I really enjoyed it. So yeah, okay, I would definitely recommend that.
Okay, Yeah, somebody had actually said to me that I needed Who was that, I can't remember it said that I needed it.
And as soon as I'm so late to that policy.
It's you know what, it's never too late. You can find it. You can find it, you will enjoy it, you'll be converted, you will have your life changed. I mean, watching it in a cinema was incredible. It was really really incredible. But but it's it's so it's such fantastic film making. And I must say that I don't want to pretend like I am just someone who only has
the most exquisite taste. I have been strongly encouraged to switch off at night by watching reality TV, and I must say it's really good relaxation, you know, because I think, being a filmmaker, it's so hard to just fully enjoy something right, And sometimes when I just watch reality TV, I think, oh, oh my gosh, this is so stupid. This is a amazing I'm not thinking about my work at all.
What do you watch?
I was watching the ultimatum?
Do I even know what that is?
The ultimatum is like marry or move on. So couples, one of them wants to get married, another one doesn't.
Healthy.
It's so healthy, it's great. It's clearly they are all on the right track. They are in this relationship for the right reasons. On the show, for the right reasons. It is the purest of intentions, of course, and can't help it support.
Can I agree with you on this? Though not so I'm sitting here like hi brow Sally.
But the fact that is, I had this conversation about a year ago. What was the thing that we were talking about? Not Love Ireland. There's another one where your love was blind, Love is Blind? It was love is Blind? And our TV and movie review was going to do it one week and I thought, I really, it's not my thing, but I'll give it a watch.
Whipped I mean, really compelling television. I was like, I am I'm sad. I'm sitting here and I'm watching this and I'm wow, I'm engaged.
I didn't know it was possible to have such vehement feelings of hatred towards people, but I've never.
Met mindless entertainment.
So good.
No, I'm in.
I'm in for life. It has been so good having you in. I'm so glad I Nina, she's here.
I did it. What's next for you?
I am. I'm in a few writers' rooms. Yeah, so I helped to co develop a skeared show, hoping that that goes somewhere. I am also starting a political comedy show that is in the works, so yeah, so that is really I'm having a lot of fun working on that, so I'm looking forward to that.
I'm looking forward to that as well.
It's absolute treat, really, I absolutely loved this conversation.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for having me a pleasure.
Anytime. You're welcome here anytime.